← Pablo Torre Finds Out
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- [00:01]
Pablo Torre
Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.
- [00:07]
Ronnie Cycley
I wanted him to feel human and not like an amoeba.
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Pablo Torre
Right after this ad, we all prefer
- [00:17]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
things a certain way, like groceries.
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Pablo Torre
If you want groceries just how you
- [00:22]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
like them, you gotta try Instacart. They have a new preference picker that lets you pick how ripe or unripe you want your bananas. Shoppers can see your preferences upfront, helping guide their choices. Because when it comes to groceries, the details matter. Instacart get groceries just how you like.
- [00:48]
Pablo Torre
Foster, you're not here for your sports expertise. No, I'm not, but you are here because first off, I need to apologize to you because this took way too long to get on the show. It's been over a year.
- [01:02]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
It has been.
- [01:03]
Pablo Torre
And there's a reason why we've, why we've been investigating this story for so long. I promise. But to just timestamp us as to like how this started for you.
- [01:11]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Yeah.
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Pablo Torre
There is a flyer. There is a flyer with a date and I was hoping you could read it and describe the thing that sent you down this rabbit hole in the first place.
- [01:24]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
The thing that sent me down this rabbit hole is a black square on which is some neon colored writing
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Pablo Torre
that
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
says circo loco on two lines. And under it it says New York, Halloween, 26 October 2024. And on the lineup are some DJs names below it and me versus Rampa, a guy named Chris Stussy Golfos, which is an act of two DJs, Pasa and Dennis Cruz, one named Map Ake, and the very last name on it at the bottom in the center is Ronnie Cycley, below which are the words Brooklyn Storehouse, which is a massive warehouse in Brooklyn.
- [02:08]
Pablo Torre
And so the idea that Ronnie Cycley caught your eye.
- [02:11]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Yes.
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Pablo Torre
What did you think when you saw his name?
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Why is Ronnie Cycley's name on this flyer?
- [02:21]
Pablo Torre
One of the thoughts that I would have that I actually did have when I was in Miami, when I was in south beach for work years ago and I saw Ronnie Cycle's name myself on some equivalent advertisement was, oh, someone has ironically called their band Ronnie Cycley Cycling. Yeah, I'm like, that's a great idea, It's a great pull.
- [02:39]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
But in this case, as we learned, there is an entire generation of people out there who only learn as a secondary course of information that he played in the NBA. Cycley offensive rebound, a terrific power move
- [03:02]
Pablo Torre
for cycling in the overtime cy. And he's Fouled Cycley again.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
And Cycley fights his way in with a basket.
- [03:11]
Pablo Torre
And the foul. He has been troublesome. Yes. He is in fact, the ninth overall pick of the 1988 NBA Draft. A former All American at Syracuse, a guy who played in the 90s and imprinted himself on my brain with the Miami Heat, first and foremost as one of the first, like, really famous foreign players, big men in the league. Ronnie cycle bent all 6ft, 11 and 3 quarters inches of his frame into a chair for his first Miami Heat press conference today and right away claimed he was thankful he wasn't picked earlier
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Ronnie Cycley
yesterday by Phoenix when they picked Tim Perry. I was. I was, you know, I was one step closer to getting to Miami and I was just so excited. I looked back to my parents and. And, you know, I just went like this to them.
- [04:00]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Just pray I know Ronnie Cycley because I was an adherent of the original NBA GM. And on the. On the original NBA Jam 1993, the Miami Heat lineup included Ronnie Sleikley, who was later also included on NBA Jam Tournament edition.
- [04:23]
Pablo Torre
Right. I last saw Ronnie Cycley in earnest when I was using him to brutally foul Danny Manning in NBA Jam. And here he is atop a DJ booth dropping a beat in a way that clearly is something to be reckoned with. This story on its own, by the way, that's an episode.
- [04:53]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
It started that way. This started with just. Ronnie Cycley is a dj, and not just a dj. A successful one. And by many objective measures, an absolutely solid one, if not a great one.
- [05:08]
Pablo Torre
We have the ability, we have the permission, the legal clearance to play DJ Ronnie Cycley. What song would you like to choose to introduce our audience to the kind of stuff that this guy gets into?
- [05:22]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Now, I think we're going to go with Lose youe Love.
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Pablo Torre
Juices are a vacation far away Come around and talk it over so many things that I want to say. You know I like my girls a little bit older.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
I just want to use your love tonight.
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Pablo Torre
I don't want to lose your tonight.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Are you imagining the giant fog jets coming up?
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Pablo Torre
I should say that I love this.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Honestly. Honestly.
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Pablo Torre
Slaps. If this happened at a wedding reception, I would freak.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Lose your mind Lose your mind.
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Pablo Torre
So as we were saying, this is an episode unto itself.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Yes.
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Pablo Torre
You're allowed to now reveal that after seeing this flyer In October of 2024, you did some more research and you saw something else.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
I did. We're about to listen to a speech. It is a YouTube clip of a fundraiser for the Magic Johnson foundation at the Staples center in celebration of the 20th anniversary of Magic announcing that he had HIV. This clip starts with a question. How did the reception that you got from other players change as you continued your career? And then what do you think the reception would be today if there was an athlete in your situation?
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Pablo Torre
What was that question speaking to the
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
stigma around an HIV positive diagnosis? There was so much misinformation and fear around how HIV was spread.
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Pablo Torre
The disease has already claimed more victims than Legionnaires disease and toxic shock syndrome combined. More than 800 cases nationwide, 300 plus of those fatal.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
And every day three more cases are identified.
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Pablo Torre
And yet still surprisingly few people are familiar with the acquired immune deficiency syndrome, or the acronym by which it's frequently identified, aids.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
I mean, like the absolute uncertainty and ignorance around this topic, which of course speaks to a greater public health issue in America and globally. That created a very difficult environment for Magic Johnson to be in the NBA. It's a sport dominated by straight men.
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Pablo Torre
We dissolved to say that when Magic Johnson replies, it's worth paying attention to what he immediately mentions.
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Ronnie Cycley
And I owe Ronnie Cy a lot because he played one on one and
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Pablo Torre
opened up all the guys eyes that
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Ronnie Cycley
when we play one on one, then guys said, oh, okay, nothing can happen to me by playing one on one against Magic.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
So thank you for that.
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Pablo Torre
And so my first reaction when I saw that clip was I didn't know that this was a thing. And what did you know about it?
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Nothing. That clip of Magic talking about it comes I think like 53 minutes into that YouTube clip. And again, it's, you know, 15 seconds of video. That's it. I knew nothing. There is very little out there about this. And the fact is Magic Johnson and Ronnie Cycley crossover in the NBA is very limited. So why Magic Johnson would be talking about Ronnie Cycley. Mystifying.
- [09:24]
Pablo Torre
When we started digging into this, it turns out that lots of people fundamentally are as ignorant as we are. That's correct. The number of places that you can even find a mention of this one on one game at all. I mean, first, yes, that clip you just played for us. But the second place is on page 253 of a book written by my old friend and colleague at around the Horn who thankfully knew more about this than either of us.
- [09:55]
Jackie McMullen
My name is Jackie McMullen, I'm a retired sports journalist. But I think the reason we're speaking today is I wrote a book called when the Game was Ours that chronicled the parallel lives of Larry Bird and Irvin Magic Johnson during those.
- [10:09]
Pablo Torre
And the thing to know about Jackie is that she is as plugged into
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
this network as anybody can be, especially
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Pablo Torre
in the 80s and the 90s when all of this was happening. And she has known Magic personally for so long that, yes, Magic Johnson and Larry Bird chose her to write this
- [10:23]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
book with them for our purposes. It's funny because Ronnie Cycley is only mentioned in a single paragraph of this book, just one.
- [10:32]
Pablo Torre
And the part of the book where this happens is the part where there is a more famous Magic Johnson announcement on video. This is November 7, 1991. And this clip, I think a lot of us have heard before.
- [10:47]
Ronnie Cycley
First of all, let me say good afternoon. Late afternoon.
- [10:52]
Pablo Torre
Because of
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Ronnie Cycley
the HIV virus that I have attained, I will have to retire from the Lakers today.
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Jackie McMullen
It was probably the worst day of my professional life because we were certain that Magic Johnson was going to die. I mean, that was.
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Pablo Torre
They.
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Jackie McMullen
That's what they were saying. Three years, Matt, you know, and work got out very quickly. They had. They held the press conference where you've just never seen Magic look that way. So it was a very, very shocking announcement.
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Ronnie Cycley
I plan on going on living for a long time, bugging you guys like I've always have, so you'll see me around. I plan on being with the Lakers in the league. Hopefully, David will have me for a while.
- [11:42]
Jackie McMullen
Of course, I was based in Boston at that time. I remember going to Larry Bird's locker to talk to him about it. And of course, they were so intertwined throughout their careers. It was just inevitable that that would happen. And I remember the look on Larry's face. He just. He told me afterwards, they had a game, I think it was a day later, and they were going to play Atlanta. And he told me many years later, it was the first time in his life he didn't feel like playing basketball. He just. It just didn't seem important anymore when that announcement happened.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
God, I must have been seven.
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Pablo Torre
Yeah.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
And I was six.
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Ronnie Cycley
Yeah.
- [12:18]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
I. The feeling was, Magic Johnson's going to die. He has hiv, which will lead into aids. This is something that you get and you die from. It is fatal. And also the way you get it, it was a sexually transmitted disease, or you could get it through a blood transfusion. But again, the. The fear and uncertainty around it led to people believing that you could get it from a toilet seat. Toilet seat covers were a whole thing in the early 90s. Suddenly they started appearing everywhere, which obviously is fundamentally untrue, but nobody really understood. How did this happen? How did this happen?
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Pablo Torre
People were just saying Magic had aids, by the way, it wasn't even like a distinction.
- [13:00]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Right. There was no distinction. It was the. What I. When I was explaining it to somebody recently, I said, do you remember the moment when Tom Hanks announced that he had Covid multiply that by a thousand.
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Pablo Torre
Yes.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
And that was the cultural impact of that moment.
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Pablo Torre
And the people who were fearful, not just because this virus now existed, but because they were being blamed for it.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Correct.
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Pablo Torre
Gay men. All across America, a mystery disease known as the gay plague has become an
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
epidemic unprecedented in the history of American medicine.
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Pablo Torre
Scientists at the National Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta today released the results of a study which shows that the lifestyle of some male homosexuals has triggered an epidemic of a rare form of cancer.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Because it existed within that community, it just was not acknowledged until Magic Johnson. Magic Johnson was the start of so many things that. That touched the predominant pop culture that had to do with HIV and aids. There are all these things that spiderwebbed out of that moment. But prior to that moment, it was so contained to such a specific and relatively, to most Americans, obscure context.
- [14:18]
Pablo Torre
And the context for who Magic Johnson was. For people who don't remember him in his prime, this is a guy that you would invite into your living room, and you would love to have him
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
as your best buddy, a teddy bear of a man.
- [14:31]
Pablo Torre
And so that degree of popularity, by the way, leads to a very awkward and unprecedented dynamic because. Because the All Star voting had already begun for the 92 Allstar game.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Correct.
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Pablo Torre
But Magic Johnson is effectively, in everyone's understanding, dying, and therefore not playing basketball
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
anymore, done with the NBA, and yet
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Pablo Torre
he ends up leading the voting. Which brings us to this conversation that Jackie told us about that happened between Magic Johnson and the commissioner of the NBA, the late David Stern. That took a turn that I think a lot of the league was not ready for.
- [15:12]
Jackie McMullen
I always say this. I think the most underrated moment of Commissioner David Stern's career was this moment. Pablo. Because the minute he learned of this diagnosis, he did what David Stern always did. He learned more about it than anybody else. And when Irvin called him and said, what if I play in the All Star Game? Stern immediately says yes, because he's done his homework. He understands that all these ways that people think HIV can be transmitted are not really true. It's not sweat to sweat. It's an infinitesimal chance of that happening. And so he's going to make sure this. This occurs. Now, immediately, NBA owners are saying, we're not signing off on this. We're not putting our Star players out there at risk. We're not doing it. And Stern said to them privately. This was all privately, Listen, I'm just going to tell you, you better be ready for a discrimination suit, because I'm going to encourage them to file a discrimination suit if you say no to this. And so be ready for that. Are you ready for HIV mandatory testing in the NBA? Are you convinced that Irvin Magic Johnson is the only person that's HIV positive in the NBA? And David Stern says, because I'm not.
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Pablo Torre
Which is, by the way, a pretty radical thing for the commissioner of the NBA to suggest about this league of very straight men.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Shout out David Stern. I don't think a lot of people know that.
- [16:44]
Pablo Torre
And the NBA, the other players, yeah, they didn't love this idea.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
They were not crazy about this. No. Needless to say.
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Pablo Torre
And so I just want to play. For instance, as an example of this mentality, a bit of testimony from noted public intellectual Carl Malone. If I get in a collision with
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Ronnie Cycley
a guy, it don't have to be
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Pablo Torre
Magic, it can be Joe Smoke.
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Ronnie Cycley
But the fact of the matter is, if you got the AIDS virus, it'd be hard for me to play, as hard as I'm capable of playing.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
And if people can't respect my decision, that's tough.
- [17:17]
Pablo Torre
The question that Magic Johnson has to ask himself is, so if I'm gonna play in this All Star Game, but I'm not playing in basketball games, how do I not embarrass myself?
- [17:28]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
You're trying to stay in shape. You're practicing. And the problem is Magic Johnson, one of the most beloved athletes in the known universe, the guy at the center of the biggest news cycle in America, can't find anybody to play basketball with him.
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Pablo Torre
Right. They literally don't want to touch him.
- [17:44]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
No, they don't. So he is showing up before Lakers games at the Forum, shooting around on his own.
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Pablo Torre
It's sad.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
It is. It is like a poetically sad image. And this brings us to the day in question. January 5, 1992. The heat's in town and they're playing the Lakers. And just as he's been, Magic Johnson is shooting around on the court with. With nobody else on it before the Lakers take to the court and start shooting around and practicing for the game and warming up. So even Jackie, who knows about this, was not there. Not a lot of people were. We managed to find somebody who was.
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Rick Loisa
Hi, this is Rick Loisa, and I am a lifelong Lakers fan.
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Pablo Torre
We just gotta visually describe where Rick is because it looks like he's in a temple that is dedicated to the Lakers.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
The top half of the wall is
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Pablo Torre
yellow, gold, excuse you.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Gold, gold, gold.
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Pablo Torre
Laker, Laker gold.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
There is a molding in the middle of the room and then the bottom half is purple, violet if you will.
- [18:55]
Pablo Torre
There's an NBA champions banner in which it lists all the times the Lakers won titles.
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
It is a veritable Laker shrine. His dad was a Peruvian immigrant and eventual Angelino and eventual Lakers season ticket holder. And Rick grew up a massive Magic Johnson fan. His favorite player ever. And in January 1992, Rick was 17 years old at the time and his dad would pick him up from school. They would show up early, as soon as the doors open, rush down to the court and watch the guy shoot around. It's just another Lakers game he was hitting.
- [19:29]
Pablo Torre
Which is to say that when rick discovered Jackie McMullen's book and got to page 253, he had a particular reaction.
- [19:39]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
He freaked out.
- [19:41]
Rick Loisa
I jumped out of my seat, ran out to find my wife and said, you'll never believe what I just read in this book. And I told her I was there.
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Jackie McMullen
We're at the forum, the old forum, and the Lakers are going to play the Heat. And so Ronnie's down one end rehabbing his injury. And Magic had just made a habit of this working out before every game.
- [19:59]
Rick Loisa
We go in like my dad and I, we went straight to the, to the, through the little gate and then right down the stairs to the court. And as, and I don't look at the court initially, I'm just looking down and make sure my steps are okay. I'm, I'm not going to trip. But as I look up and I see Magic Johnson on the court, I mean I knew it instantly. You can't mistake, you know, his size and just the way he moves. So yeah, I was like, oh, you know, holy crap, dad.
- [20:24]
Jackie McMullen
So this is happening in real time. It's, you know, probably, I don't know, an hour before the game. As you know, each player has their own pre game routine and most of them disappear to the locker room right before, you know, when the fans are all filing in.
- [20:37]
Rick Loisa
I mean my eyes were as wide as saucers as I'm like this is. And I couldn't believe how close I got because as a 17 year old magic Johnson fan, I had never stood that close to him, you know, so it was about 10ft and that's the closest I've ever able to stand to him.
- [20:53]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
And at some point during this, Rick notices Ronnie Cycley, on the other end of the court, who is rehabbing an injury he is not going to play in that night's game. Like Magic Johnson, Cycley is just taking.
- [21:05]
Rick Loisa
Just taking some shots, you know, some few little hook shots. Then he kind of moved out kind of near the elbow area. Few free throws, just doing his own thing. And after a few minutes, he just. He grabbed the ball and he just starts walking toward where Magic is. And I don't remember exactly what he said because I couldn't quite hear him, you know, clearly, but he just said, like, hey, you want to go? And something like that. And Magic said, yeah.
- [21:33]
Jackie McMullen
So to have someone say, hey, you want to play? This was a big deal for Irvin. It was such a relief, and he was so happy about it.
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Rick Loisa
I think Magic is likely the ball to start. I do remember that at first, there was just. I think Cycley started with a jumper, so no contact yet. And then Magic had the ball, and rather than shoot from outside, I think he just wanted to test cycling. And he comes down and tries to back to the basket, tries to get into the post. So he's forcing cycling into low post defense. And I think Magic took just kind of a simple. Kind of a baby hook shot kind of a thing.
- [22:10]
Pablo Torre
And.
- [22:11]
Rick Loisa
And again, not really recognizing what's happening. But now they're starting to be. There's contact, there's defensive contact going both ways, but it started slowly, and then it kind of got more intense and more intense. And now it got to be a pretty good game of one on one.
- [22:27]
Jackie McMullen
But what happens now is, you know, it's getting closer to game time, and the Miami Heat players are wandering out to get ready to actually play this actual game that Irvin has no place in, or Ronnie, for that matter. Neither one of them are playing in the game. And again, the tensions are heightened. What's Ronnie doing? We don't want him doing that. We need him back. Why is he playing with Magic? Why is he taking this risk?
- [22:49]
Rick Loisa
I do remember that some Heat, not. Not the whole team, but there were some Heat players and some Lakers players that were starting to come out of the tunnel and kind of hung back in the tunnel, but you could see them, and they. And they were definitely watching Magic and cycling. I have no idea, and I don't want to try to kind of guess, but they were definitely talking to each other, and they were pointing. They were talking and. And. But they stayed back. They were not going to get on the court. They were going to wait until this was done. I mean, they Wouldn't even go to the other end. They were just going to just stay there kind of at the where the tunnel opens up and just wait. But yeah, there was definitely kind of some hushed conversation. Maybe it was about Magic and Ronnie, maybe it wasn't, but it was. It looked like it to me. It looked like they were talking about what was happening on the court.
- [23:39]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
What do you think when you hear that?
- [23:43]
Pablo Torre
Without also imputing the worst sort of thinking to the players observing it. I can imagine these guys freaking out, out of ignorance, out of self interest, maybe most generously, the idea that these mother are spreading this virus and it's going to get back to us.
- [24:02]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Bewilderment is the word that comes to mind. They must be bewildered at what is playing out in front of them.
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Pablo Torre
The idea that a random one on one game that was happening between two injured players who weren't even going to play that night ends up being one of the most radical acts in sports
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
history for a number of reasons.
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Pablo Torre
And one of the reasons is because of the reaction that young 17 year old Rick was observing.
- [24:30]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Correct.
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Pablo Torre
Of like these guys being like, what the are they doing?
- [24:33]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
And Ronnie's going to go back in the locker room and he's eventually going to be playing again. What is happening is what these guys are thinking.
- [24:40]
Pablo Torre
And it raises a zillion questions now for me because how Ronnie Cycley became the guy who did that, the guy who was uniquely brave enough to invite magic into a game of one on one. How do we explain this?
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
That is the question that I have wanted to know throughout all of this more than anything else. And it's something that Ronnie has not talked about publicly, if at all.
- [25:12]
Pablo Torre
And this is where, yes, we also, it turns out, assigned you to approach Ronnie Cycley one on one.
- [25:19]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Yes. Which initially happened over email. Didn't work out. So I went to that show that we mentioned earlier in a giant warehouse in Brooklyn by the Navy Yard full of very loud music and a lot of people dancing to it. And I managed to get on stage behind the DJ booth as he was getting up and he is also 6, 11 and towering over me. And I am for the record, five, seven and a half. And like, talking in that circumstance, telling him that I have this thing to ask him about is not easy. So I pull out my phone with the email to his manager on it and say, I have something for you to read. And he says, right now? And I say, yes, I need you to read this right now here, before this beat drops. Before the beat drops. I need you to read this and Ronnie was kind enough to pull out his reading glasses and look at my phone and he put it down and said, yes, I will talk to you about this story.
- [26:33]
Pablo Torre
When my daughter was born, my perspective on life changed in an instant. Suddenly my mind wasn't just thinking about what was for dinner tomorrow. I was thinking years ahead about childcare and her future college tuition and all the milestones that you can't wait to see. And the one thing that was constantly on my mind is what would happen to them if something happened to me. Part of loving my family and thinking about their future, even in the uncomfortable ways. And while life insurance is not a fun topic, it is one you need to think about. And so that's why I am so glad I found out about Ethos. Ethos makes getting life insurance fast and easy and 100% online. You can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes and get same day coverage. There's no medical exam. You just answer a few simple health questions and it is so simple that you really have no excuse to not check it out. You can get up to $3 million in coverage with some policies as low as $30 a month, and you can be sure that you're getting the right coverage from a trusted Source. As of March 2025, Business Insider named Ethos the number one no medical exam instant life insurance provider. Plus, Ethos has 4.8 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot with over 3,000 reviews. So help protect your family with life insurance through Ethos. Get your instant free quote@ethos.com PTFO that's E ethos.com PTFO application times and rates may vary. So I just heard something that totally shocked me recently which is that teens spend an average of 9 hours per day on screens outside of school, which basically is a full time job of just scrolling mindlessly. And there are also tons of studies that show just how bad that is for them. From feeling overwhelmed or worse about their lives to high risks of depression and anxiety. Teens and phones just do not mix. And with daughter myself I am constantly worried about when she reaches an age where we gotta have the phone talk. But here's the good news. Gab Wireless has solved the problem by doing something no one else is doing. Their approach is tech in steps. Tech in Steps works by providing kids safe phones and watches with no social media and tailored to every age, offering the right device at the right time. From GPS tracking enabled watches for young kids to increased features and parent enabled apps on the phones for tweens and Teens. Each device allows them to safely grow their independence. The bottom line, you don't have to give your kid a device that was made for an adult. Get them Gab, which keeps them socially connected safely, which means no social media and no Internet apps. Gab just makes sense to me. So use our code to get the best deal on something that'll make parenting easier and give you peace of mind. Visit gab.compablo torre and use code pablotore for a special offer. That's Gab Gabb.
- [29:18]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
We all prefer things a certain way, like groceries.
- [29:21]
Pablo Torre
If you want groceries just how you
- [29:23]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
like them, you gotta try Instacart. They have a new preference picker that
- [29:28]
Pablo Torre
lets you pick how ripe or unripe
- [29:30]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
you want your bananas. Shoppers can see your preferences upfront, helping guide their choices. Because when it comes to groceries, the details matter. Instacart. Get groceries just how you like.
- [29:49]
Pablo Torre
So the summit you had with DJ Ronnie Cycley took place where?
- [29:53]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
In Miami, home to Club Space, one of the most legendary clubs in the world. A place where Ronnie Cycley has DJed many times.
- [30:02]
Pablo Torre
We should reveal that this took place when?
- [30:06]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
December 2024.
- [30:08]
Pablo Torre
You were so innocent then.
- [30:09]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
I was. I was a sweet summer child.
- [30:12]
Pablo Torre
And young Ronnie Cycley, the child, like, what's. What's his. What's his background?
- [30:19]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
He always loved dance music. It's. It's been a thread throughout his entire life.
- [30:23]
Ronnie Cycley
Music was always part of my. My DNA. We listened to so much music when we were home. My dad loved music, so I think I get that from him.
- [30:34]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
He listened to a lot of soul in disco growing up, a lot of Barry White around the house. So music was always a constant presence in his life. He always knew he was going to be an athlete. He was built like an athlete, but he loved music. He was buying records, he had turntables, and he was messing with records and going to clubs when he was definitely way too young to be there and hanging out in this world. As he was achieving ascendance as a college basketball player and then a pro basketball player.
- [31:05]
Pablo Torre
And his favorite player growing up was
- [31:07]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
who his favorite player was. Magic Johnson.
- [31:11]
Ronnie Cycley
First of all, you gotta understand that Magic was like an idol. Growing up in Greece, there was no television, broadcasting, NBA or anything like that. All we got was the Finals, Magic against Bird. That's all I know of the NBA when I was living in Greece. So to me, Magic Johnson was like an idol.
- [31:37]
Pablo Torre
So Ronnie Cycley, in 1991, he was with the Miami Heat. As we established, his reaction to the HIV announcement was what, when he heard it for the first time.
- [31:49]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Devastated.
- [31:51]
Rick Loisa
I.
- [31:52]
Ronnie Cycley
We were on the road somewhere and we watched it on television.
- [32:00]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
You and the other guys on the team?
- [32:01]
Ronnie Cycley
Yes. And it was just one of these, like, shockers, you know, was kind of like when Elvis Presley died, when John Kennedy got assassinated. It's one of those moments when 9, 11 happened. You kind of remember where you were at that time. And I happened to be watching TV at the time, and it came on as breaking news, and obviously we couldn't believe it.
- [32:29]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
But he also knew a little bit more about what was going on with Magic than pretty much every other player in the NBA. You have to imagine.
- [32:39]
Pablo Torre
Why did Ronnie have a perspective on HIV and AIDS in 1991 that was shared by seemingly very, very, very few people, not just in sports, but in America in general?
- [32:52]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Yeah, a couple reasons for this, but where it concerns DJ Ronnie Cycley, there's a significant overlap between the history of dance music in America and globally and queer communities and communities of color. And queer communities of color, which is where the HIV epidemic really took hold in America. It is the dominant subculture that it came of age in, so to speak. And house music as we know it today originated in a Chicago club called the Warehouse. It was the sound of the culture most affected by HIV in the 80s,
- [33:34]
Pablo Torre
which is to say that as much as sports was riven by this scandal, what this genre of music was dealing
- [33:43]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
with in real time was not unfamiliar
- [33:47]
Pablo Torre
to Ronnie, but just the mechanics of the science of the virus. Like, why did he already have such confidence that this was a risk that wasn't really a risk in the way that people saw this one on one game being Right.
- [34:03]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
He had a personal connection to it.
- [34:05]
Ronnie Cycley
My cousin who was living in Washington, D.C. was the earliest. Was the. One of the earliest patients with. With aids. He was a hemophiliac, and he got it from a blood transfusion. And we would always. You know, I was. Whenever I got to Washington, D.C. i would go to the hospital and sit by his bedside, and we were never told not to touch or not to feel or not to do anything. You know, it was just kind of a normal thing that he just got a blood transfusion that was not good. So we knew it was kind of more of a blood thing.
- [34:42]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
So
- [34:44]
Ronnie Cycley
I. I had like, an early kind of recognition of what was going on with this. I also had a lot of gay friends that got the virus and they got it sexually. And yet we still went to the hospital and we saw them and we were around them and nothing happened.
- [35:11]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
And he got. This happened around that time. 89. 90. Yeah.
- [35:16]
Ronnie Cycley
And then my other gay friend, probably in 91 or 92. So I saw it a couple of different times.
- [35:30]
Pablo Torre
Yeah. I'd never heard any of that before.
- [35:32]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Neither had I, until I was in that warehouse in Brooklyn with Ronnie. And he says this to me. I had no idea that Ronnie and. And couldn't have imagined. I thought maybe he was just somebody who was incredibly well educated about these kinds of things or.
- [35:51]
Pablo Torre
Or hadn't really thought about it even.
- [35:53]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Yeah. Or just hadn't thought about it.
- [35:55]
Pablo Torre
The idea that Ronnie Cycley, a professional athlete, NBA player, is just casually saying, oh, yeah, and my gay friend.
- [36:02]
Rick Loisa
Right.
- [36:03]
Pablo Torre
Like that alone is. Is sort of subversive in ways that we should not be numb to, given what the timeline here is.
- [36:12]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
And, you know, not to expound too headily about the virtues of dance music, but you have to imagine he came into contact with a lot of. And made a lot of gay friends through his love of dance music.
- [36:26]
Pablo Torre
This was all just him privately making friends, living his life, caring for people.
- [36:33]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Correct.
- [36:34]
Pablo Torre
His own loved ones, family members and otherwise. And what happened? How are those people doing now that he mentioned they passed away?
- [36:45]
Ronnie Cycley
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he passed away. He just disintegrated completely and passed away. My other friend was here living in Miami, and, you know, he started getting the skin. The skin lesions. And we stayed with him as long as we could. He was at Mount Sinai Hospital here. We stayed with him as long as we could. And he just. He was getting injections in his eyes in order not to go blind. Like, the early barbaric ways of. Of treating this was really, really hard.
- [37:28]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Excruciating. Yeah.
- [37:29]
Pablo Torre
Yeah.
- [37:29]
Ronnie Cycley
He had to go to the hospital before he actually checked into the hospital in order not to lose his eyesight. He was getting injected in his eyes, and so I've seen the ugly side of it, and I'm glad that they found a much easier way to go through with it and live with it.
- [37:48]
Pablo Torre
Part of me wants to not be awestruck when someone who's like the prom king in the movie is kind.
- [38:00]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
And yet there is a reason you are.
- [38:02]
Pablo Torre
Yeah. Which raises the question of, like, in an NBA locker room, what was it like to be the guy who DJs at this point in American history as well.
- [38:09]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Needless to say, the rest of the players on the Miami Heat were not house music fans. House music did not really get a foothold in the NBA. Still hasn't, really, if we're being honest. So he was a little Different. Besides not being from America, he had some different tastes as well.
- [38:26]
Pablo Torre
And yet is an interesting wrinkle when Magic Johnson, who is the most popular athlete in America until this happened, ends up being the guy who needed, without ever asking for it, needed a Ronnie cycle to care for him in ways that clearly only a couple people knew about.
- [38:51]
Ronnie Cycley
I walked out on the court knowing what he had just gone through and the backlash that he was getting from all the players of. Of not wanting to play against him. Nobody wants to be a touch him, nobody wants to be around them. And I just walked up to him and I said, do you want to play one on one? And he looked at me kind of like, not sure if I was joking or not. And he was like, sure. And I said, I'm not going to take it easy on you. I'm going to push you, I'm going to shove you, and we're going to go at it. And he looked at me, it was like as if it was Christmas. And this kid got a. A brand new present that he wanted, that he's always wanted. His eyes just lit up and he looked at me, he was like, let's go. I wanted him to feel human and not like an amoeba, you know, like everybody wants to be away from him. I wanted him to feel good about himself. I wanted other players to see this. And so I wasn't kind of like playing him. I was playing him. I was playing him. He was posting me up, he was taking me down, pounding the ball, trying to take me, you know, and then we played. We played. And he was. It was so much fun, and he was so grateful, and he was so thankful that I take that to my grave, that I was able to put a smile on somebody's face that doesn't necessarily need it, with all his fame and fortune, everything that he's done in his life. But in that moment, I put a smile on his face. And that's the most important thing for me.
- [40:40]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Right?
- [40:41]
Ronnie Cycley
You know, I just wanted to show him that somebody cares for him, that somebody is there for him, somebody is going to play basketball with you, something that you love. And the least thing I can do as a young kid who grew up watching you is be respectful to you, knowing that I'm not going to get infected by pushing you, shoving you, and playing basketball against you.
- [41:04]
Pablo Torre
And so all of this now raises the next question, which is have Magic and Ronnie talked about this event, this one on one game, since it happened,
- [41:13]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
not publicly, but once Ronnie told me that he ran into Magic Johnson in elevator in New York. And Magic expressed his gratitude again and basically said to Ronnie, anything you ever need from me, you got it. If you owe $10,000 or more in credit card debt, medical bills, or personal loans, help is here. More and more Americans turn to credit cards to get by. National debt relief is helping qualified clients reduce what they owe. For many continuing to struggle, making minimum monthly payments could take years to pay off. National debt relief has already helped over 550,000Americans reduce their debt by negotiating directly with their creditors. When you call, you'll be amazed at how much you can save and how quickly you can become debt free. If you want off the debt treadmill, visit nationaldebtrelief.com today. You don't need to declare bankruptcy, and you may qualify for significant debt relief. To find out what savings you may qualify for, simply Visit National Debt Relief.com that's National Debt Relief.com.
- [42:35]
Pablo Torre
Now, the thing that we needed for Magic Johnson that now kind of explains why we took more than a year of waiting before publishing this episode is Magic Johnson. We kind of needed Magic.
- [42:50]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
We did.
- [42:51]
Pablo Torre
To fully finish the depth of story. But this was difficult, and I apologize.
- [43:00]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
I should mention here that I've listened to many episodes of this Regal podcast, not every single one. And I had not listened to a certain episode when Neely gave me this assignment and said, by the way, have you heard the other Magic Johnson episode?
- [43:17]
Pablo Torre
Are you familiar with our landmark investigation into who actually sends Magic Johnson's tweets? Because that, I think. Look, we can't say definitively, and I should say this for journalistic reasons, I cannot tell you that the reason Magic Johnson is not in this episode, spoiler alert. Is because we outed Alexia Grievous Henderson, who was his communications person, his trusted employee, as the person who was basically taking dictation from Magic Johnson when he says stuff like, the Lakers won, period, by a score of 109 to 97.
- [44:00]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Right. And because Magic didn't participate in the episode and she declined to comment, you guys got Rob Lowe, who partied with Magic Johnson in the 80s, to comment on the veracity of Magic Johnson's Twitter and then found out we. We believe that it was her. Anyway.
- [44:16]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, I mean, listen, I. I have. I have it on very good authority. Yes. That he dictates it. He has somebody who he, you know,
- [44:26]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
whatever occurs to him. And with the emphasis on whatever occurs
- [44:31]
Pablo Torre
to him, it's the best. I mean, that's what Twitter was made for him. Made. Exactly. But I'll ask.
- [44:38]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
I'LL ask Magic next time I see him. I'm going to say the world wants to know.
- [44:42]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, yeah. You know, when you investigate everything all the time, it turns out you end up burning bridges that you wish you hadn't singed. And so, just to give you the full accounting of, for the audience of like what we tried to do, we tried going through Magic's foundation. We certainly directly reached out to the communications person aforementioned, who is now the president, who has perhaps uncoincidentally only grown in power since these last calls were made. And Magic, by the way, is somebody I've interviewed before previous to that Twitter investigation. There's a very embarrassing video, and this is the effect that Magic Johnson still has on people. He visited the Seaport studios in New York City where ESPN used to tape. I was an employee, I. And this is not something I'm proud of. I jumped on a couch like Tom Cruise to meet him eye to eye and like dap him up, which is a violation of all sorts of principles that I have, journalistic and otherwise, in retrospect. But that dude, I can tell you, is a great hugger.
- [45:55]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Yeah, I bet.
- [45:57]
Pablo Torre
The warmest.
- [45:58]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Man, you denied me that hug.
- [46:00]
Pablo Torre
I feel personally responsible for, for how this got derailed.
- [46:06]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
I do want to say in your credit, there has been some real attempts at shoe leather reporting, specifically with Pablo getting ejected from the lower tranche of a Dodgers game while, while stalking Magic Johnson like prey in the heat of the moment. Can we throw to that picture?
- [46:24]
Pablo Torre
Do we have the photo that I,
- [46:26]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
I have the screen grab of the text.
- [46:27]
Pablo Torre
It was infuriating because I went to a Dodger game and Matic Johnson happens to be, you know, part owner of the Los Angeles Dodgers, among many other enterprises that he partakes in. And I made it behind home plate. And you were close, genuinely like a mid range jumper away from Magic Johnson, who was right there behind the plate. And I stood, slash crouched there for so long that the security guard at Dodger Stadium, who clearly doesn't subscribe to this YouTube channel, told me that I had to leave. And I never got to approach Magic one on one either.
- [47:08]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
It was, it was a great attempt.
- [47:11]
Pablo Torre
It was pathetic. And so we had to figure out, in lieu of the man himself who could help explain what this all meant to Magic Johnson. And we found someone who I, I genuinely think is probably the next best thing.
- [47:29]
Rick Loisa
My name is Lon Rosen. I'm the executive vice president of Los Angeles Dodgers. But in my previous life, I was Magic Johnson's agent and you know, There
- [47:38]
Pablo Torre
are some agents where it's like, yeah, okay, you know, you get 10% or whatever. Lon Rosen has been his dear personal friend, Magic's like intimate since 1987. And so when it gets to who was there, who was right alongside Magic for this roller coaster ride through the national news of, you know, this moral panic, turns out that Lon Rosen was also at the Forum right alongside our 17 year old friend Rick at the time for the one on one game on January 5, 1992.
- [48:10]
Rick Loisa
I was there. This was two or three hours before the game. Magic was shooting on the Lakers side of the court and Ronnie was shooting on the other side by himself. I believe he was injured at this point and he was just working out. And at one point he just came over to say hello to Magic. And the next thing I knew, they were playing a game of one on one and they were really, really playing hard. It was a huge turning point for him. And I think it showed that, yeah, you can go near him, you can touch him, you could even maybe sweat because it was really the first physical activity on a basketball court he had since his announcement, you know, two months prior to this. He had worked out, but really on his own, just shooting on his own, in a way, it sparked him for the rest of his life. I mean, he was down, let's face it. He was sad, he was down, he was scared. But that day was like a rebirth. And it just, he went out from there. I mean, he never looked back.
- [49:12]
Pablo Torre
And so the game, the game that Magic Johnson was practicing for by playing one on one against Ronnie Cycley. We're now in Orlando, 25 of the game's greatest stars. And the top attraction today in Orlando is Magic Urban Magic Johnson of The Lakers, the NBA's premier playmaker for more than a decade. It's February 9, 1992. It's the NBA All Star Game. And the game is, by the way, absurd. So the West, Magic Johnson's Western Conference team defeats the east 153 to 113. There has never been a blowout out like that in the history of the NBA All Star Game. And Magic Johnson, wouldn't you know it was the MVP leading everybody, Foster, everybody with 25 points. Not bad for a guy who, you know, wasn't supposed to be playing basketball anymore. Right?
- [50:03]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Except there's something I want you to see, which is the very last shot of the game. In the final moments, Michael said, you're not getting it.
- [50:16]
Pablo Torre
Yes, he is. Six, five, three pointer.
- [50:22]
Rick Loisa
Yes.
- [50:22]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
Oh my.
- [50:25]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, there's like 22 seconds left and Isaiah Thomas is trying to guard him. He's at the three point line and Magic just turns around and basically off of one foot just sinks this parabolic three. It's a ridiculous punctuation mark.
- [50:40]
Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
It is, it is. But that's, that's not the actual punctuation mark. What is, is what happens immediately after that, which is all these guys running up to him, giving him high fives, giving him hugs, doing something that was probably unthinkable to Magic Johnson just a couple months before as he's dealing with the fallout of his announcement, playing basketball by himself before Ronnie Cycley ever comes up to him on the floor of the Forum and says, let's ball, ladies and gentlemen.
- [51:15]
Pablo Torre
You just can't orchestrate it better than that. But when you're great, you deliver on cue. Three straight prays for Johnson at the
- [51:25]
Ronnie Cycley
end of the game,
- [51:29]
Pablo Torre
Foster at the end of episodes like this, I of course need to say thank you for your reporting, thank you for your patience, anytime. But I also am now glancing through Ronnie Cycley's musical catalog in my computer where a playlist is being assembled. And I do feel like the only way to appropriately end this episode is to do the thing that you just alluded to, which is to say we should probably just press play. This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production and I'll talk to you next time. When I wake up in the morning love and the sunlight hurts my eyes and something without wanna love bears heavy on my mind Then I look at you and the world's all right very just want to look at you and I know it's gonna be. Hiring isn't just filling a role. It's about finding people who can drive results.
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Jackie McMullen
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Investigator/Interviewer (possibly a journalist or co-host)
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Pablo Torre
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