One Yard at a Time: A Mystery

Summary

One Yard at a Time: A Mystery – Detailed Summary

Podcast: Pablo Torre Finds Out
Host: Pablo Torre
Guests: Sarah Spain, Dylan McCullough, Sherman Smith
Release Date: May 27, 2025

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1. Introduction

Pablo Torre kicks off the episode by setting the stage for an intriguing narrative centered around a mysterious discovery. The focus is on uncovering the hidden sounds and stories that lie beyond the surface of the game, weaving a tale that intertwines personal history, football, and unexpected revelations.

2. The Story of Dylan McCullough – Early Life

The narrative centers on Dylan McCullough, the Raiders' running backs coach, whose journey begins in the economically devastated Youngstown, Ohio. Born John Kenneth Briggs on December 1, 1972, Dylan was adopted by Ad C. McCullough, a beloved local radio DJ, and his wife Adele. The McCullough family faced significant hardship following the collapse of the steel industry in 1977, an event they refer to as "Black Monday."

Quote:
Sarah Spain [04:38]: “He was adopted by a young couple who's very much in love that already have a son welcomed to the family.”

3. Finding His Path in Football

Despite a challenging upbringing, Dylan found solace and identity in football. Initially overshadowed by his older brother, Dylan's perseverance led him to excel during his senior year, catching the attention of prominent coaches like Bob Stoops and Jim Tressel.

Quote:
Dylan McCullough [10:36]: “I was writing letters to smaller schools and I was pretty much set to go to the Navy, not to play football.”

4. The Role of Sherman Smith

Dylan's mentor, Sherman Smith, plays a pivotal role in his development. A former Seahawks running back and an Ohio University alumnus, Smith embodies the qualities Dylan aspires to. Their relationship transcends the typical coach-player dynamic, becoming a surrogate father-son bond.

Quote:
Sherman Smith [15:27]: “None of you asked me to be a father, but I'm going to treat you like you're my sons.”

5. The Search for Biographical Roots

Years into his coaching career, Dylan grapples with his identity, pondering the origins of his adoption. This introspection intensifies when he learns about Pennsylvania's House Bill 162 (HB162), which grants adoptees access to their original birth records—a bill that directly impacts his quest for truth.

Quote:
Pablo Torre [26:11]: “Lawmakers in Pennsylvania, it turns out, had finally pushed a thing called HB162 through their legislature.”

6. Revelation – Sherman Smith as Biological Father

In a stunning twist, Dylan discovers through his birth mother, Carol Briggs, that Sherman Smith is his biological father. This revelation merges his two worlds—football and personal life—into an unforeseen convergence.

Quote:
Dylan McCullough [32:48]: “Your dad is a man by the name of Sherman Smith.”

7. The Emotional Reunion

The emotional climax occurs when Dylan confronts Sherman with the newfound truth. The reunion is heartfelt and cathartic, marking the culmination of decades-long uncertainty and emotional yearning.

Quote:
Dylan McCullough [37:02]: “He opens the door. He just said, my son. And it was like, oh, the tears start rolling again because I've never been referred to as somebody's son.”

8. The Legacy and Parallels

Both Dylan and Sherman share striking similarities—stemming from Youngstown, excelling at Miami University, facing career challenges due to injuries, and dedicating themselves to education post-football. Their intertwined paths highlight themes of destiny, choice, and the cyclical nature of life.

Quote:
Dylan McCullough [40:30]: “We both from Youngstown, we both went to Miami, we both go into the hall of Fame at Miami, we both go and play pro ball.”

9. Upcoming Projects and Conclusions

The episode concludes with insights into Sarah Spain's upcoming book, Runs in the Family, which delves deeper into Dylan and Sherman’s intertwined lives. Additionally, there are hints at a potential film adaptation, with executive producers Russell Wilson and Ciara attached to the project, promising a cinematic exploration of this remarkable story.

Quote:
Sarah Spain [44:32]: “Two of the executive producers on the film we are planning to make but have not yet signed a studio to are Russell Wilson and Ciara.”

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Key Takeaways

• Identity and Heritage: Dylan McCullough's journey underscores the profound impact of discovering one's roots and the intricate ways personal and professional lives can intersect.

• Mentorship and Legacy: Sherman Smith serves not only as a coach but as a biological father, illustrating the deep bonds that mentorship can foster.

• Choice and Destiny: Despite the seemingly predestined paths, Dylan's choices play a crucial role in shaping his destiny, highlighting the balance between fate and personal agency.

• Emotional Resolution: The heartfelt reunion between Dylan and Sherman emphasizes themes of forgiveness, understanding, and the healing power of reconciliation.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Dylan McCullough [10:36]: “I was writing letters to smaller schools and I was pretty much set to go to the Navy, not to play football.”

• Sarah Spain [04:38]: “He was adopted by a young couple who's very much in love that already have a son welcomed to the family.”

• Sherman Smith [15:27]: “None of you asked me to be a father, but I'm going to treat you like you're my sons.”

• Pablo Torre [26:11]: “Lawmakers in Pennsylvania, it turns out, had finally pushed a thing called HB162 through their legislature.”

• Dylan McCullough [37:02]: “He opens the door. He just said, my son. And it was like, oh, the tears start rolling again because I've never been referred to as somebody's son.”

• Dylan McCullough [40:30]: “We both from Youngstown, we both went to Miami, we both go into the hall of Fame at Miami, we both go and play pro ball.”

• Sarah Spain [44:32]: “Two of the executive producers on the film we are planning to make but have not yet signed a studio to are Russell Wilson and Ciara.”

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This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out masterfully intertwines personal narratives with the broader themes of identity, mentorship, and resilience. Through Dylan McCullough's remarkable journey, listeners are offered a poignant exploration of what it means to find one's place both on and off the field.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[Dylan McCullough]

He opens the door. He just said, my son. And it was like, oh, the tears start rolling again because I've never been referred to as somebody's son.

[Pablo Torre]

Right after this ad.

[Sarah Spain]

You're listening to DraftKings Network.

[State Farm]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[Pablo Torre]

You know, one of the things that I have to do at the top is say, first, thank you for doing this. Sarah Spain.

[Dylan McCullough]

Hello.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, and the other thing is to do a thing that is cruel, which is to say there is a twist in this story which we're not going to give away because we're trying to be good at telling stories, but holy.

[Sarah Spain]

Yeah, that was my response when I first heard the story was pretty much holy.

[Pablo Torre]

And now that story is a book, which is why you are here with us today. It is coming out. It is called Runs in the Family. What's the metaphor that you choose to use to describe the process of birthing? This.

[Sarah Spain]

Actually, I've been joking. I am throwing myself a book baby shower wherein I buy myself a push present because honestly, and though the labor maybe wasn't as painful as a human baby, but at the beginning, I was like to quote you earlier, holy. Why did I choose to do this?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I should say, I mean, to quote Tony Kheiser about his own hands, these fingers don't really type anymore.

[Sarah Spain]

Well, I am worried about you. After you did that interview where you said some of your articles, you actually changed the words in sentences so that the ends of them would line up in a paragraph. So it looked nice. I was like, oh, he should never write a book.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, that. That whole thing about how you are not burdened by the neurosis of writing. I, for not familiar, was making my paragraphs into like perfect, symmetrical rectangles before I gave myself permission to write the.

[Sarah Spain]

Next paragraph, which is, have you seen someone for that?

[Pablo Torre]

You. It turns out I'm seeing you for that and you have not helped.

[Sarah Spain]

My bad.

[Pablo Torre]

Could you give just like the log line of this movie before the thing that we're dancing around?

[Sarah Spain]

Yeah. So the protagonist and co Author. His name's Dylan McCullough. He is currently the Raiders running backs coach.

[Dylan McCullough]

Coach Carol and all of the upper management has done a great job of, first of all, putting together a great staff, I believe a really, really, really good staff. And then getting, you know, we got obviously, OTAs going on right now. And it's been. It's been very encouraging. Let me say it like that, been very encouraging.

[Sarah Spain]

He was most recently with Notre Dame, helping them to the national championship. Previous to that, famously with the Kansas City Chiefs, helped them to a Super Bowl.

[Ad C. McCullough]

D. How special is it to be a part of this?

[Dylan McCullough]

I mean, it's unbelievable. You know, I know I made a statement a couple just about the dream that you have as a youth football player in high school and college about getting to this level.

[Sherman Smith]

I didn't know Dylan before the super bowl with the Chiefs, in which it.

[Pablo Torre]

Was like, oh, that's the guy who has been coaching, you know, Damian Williams, where they are just like, scampering all over the field, makes a cut and.

[Dylan McCullough]

Will roll into the end zone for the touchdown, no flag.

[Sarah Spain]

I wasn't familiar with him either, but a friend of mine in Chicago here played college football with him, which is how the story came to me. Sort of out of the blue. And out of nowhere, he sat me down when we were grabbing drinks. I was like, oh, I gotta tell you this crazy story. And within probably less than three minutes of the story, chill's almost in tears. And I was like, oh, we gotta do something with this.

[Sherman Smith]

So I just need you to know that what we're gonna do with this today might seem like a story about a running backs coach at this point. A coach whose job, if you were not familiar, is basically devoted to teaching a running back how to shrug off and fight off all of the people who are desperately trying to stop them from moving forward as much as one single yard. But this story is about more than that. This story is also about a running back. A running back whose entire identity was a mystery. Because thanks to the laws in our country, as we will discuss, adoption as a concept way too often entails mystery. But what we know is that long before Dylan McCullough beat the Niners in the super bowl and became a successful NFL coach, and also recently agreed to talk to Pablo Torre, finds out for this episode. As you will hear throughout, he was born and put up for adoption in December 1972. And we also know that Dylan's adoptive parents lived in a place that would be economically decimated by the collapse of the steel industry, by September 1977, when Dillon was just four years old and that place was Youngstown, Ohio.

[Dylan McCullough]

It's hard to believe this is happening after working here for so many years. It's hard to believe that we're put out on the street and don't know what we're going to do. 5,000 steel workers, many of them skilled veterans of 20 to 30 years, lost their jobs in Youngstown and nearby Campbell. They have a name for the day disaster struck. They call it Black Monday.

[Sherman Smith]

That is where Dylan McCullough comes from.

[Sarah Spain]

He's adopted by a young couple who's very much in love that already have a son welcomed to the family. And the dad is this guy named Ad C. McCullough who's a popular local radio DJ in Youngstown.

[Pablo Torre]

What kind of local DJ are we talking about? What's kind of the affect here? For his adopted father, the guy who.

[Sarah Spain]

Would announce on the radio if there was a snow day, the guy who would introduce you to the latest top 40 hit, the hottest hits, Hot 101, and you'd get to hear the song for the first time. This is the 70s and 80s that he starts out. So the radio in particular local radio was such a huge part of people's everyday life.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Ad C. McCullough]

All right, so we're AC and Kelly.

[Pablo Torre]

And we have some special guests here this morning.

[Ad C. McCullough]

So we want to say hi to.

[Sarah Spain]

Celeste from the shops at Boardman Park. So after some of the local concerts in Youngstown, folks would come over to their house for after parties to get a late night home cooked meal and keep the party going. So Dylan was around Tiny Tim, very old fashioned now for young people, there would always be stacks of tickets to a variety of local bands or concerts that were happening in their house. But after about two years, the couple doesn't make it. He leaves. And for Dylan, there's a particular pain in the fact that he hears his father's voice every day on the radio. But his father wants nothing to do with him in life. And then his mother brings in another husband, some other boyfriends, really hoping to provide a father figure. But her choices never really match her intentions and they are abusive. One of them has a crack problem.

[Dylan McCullough]

Although there were men, there was a couple guys there. They weren't. They didn't fit the bill as the true father figure. Like, wow, I want to do what this guy do and follow what his teachings and what his actions are. I didn't want to do that.

[Sarah Spain]

You need to understand that there were so many people struggling in Youngstown trying to pay for Heat and electricity, trying to put food on the table, trying to stay out of jail. People around him were struggling with so many big things.

[Sherman Smith]

And so Dyland, how long has he known that he is adopted?

[Sarah Spain]

At about 7 years old, he's sitting on the floor at a friend's house, his mom is talking with friends and he's playing with a toy and he overhears his mom say, pittsburgh, that's where we went to get Dylan when we adopted him. And he says, I'm adopted. And she says, yep. And then goes back to her conversation and they try to talk about it again in the car very briefly and she sort of shuts it down. And it becomes pretty clear to him that it's not really something to talk about. And for him there was not really the privilege of let me do some navel gazing about my identity and where I come from, right? It's like, how do I get by today and tomorrow and the next day and how does my family get by? So he really didn't talk about it with his mom again for 30 years.

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[Pablo Torre]

So to be very clear, in terms of the kind of family that Dylan finds, it is not a football family. Right? This is a football story, but not a football family at the begin.

[Sarah Spain]

Well, yeah, his brother actually plays football too, and he's quite good. And at first he's in the shadow of his brother. He grew up so shy and because he had so much self doubt, he sort of was okay being in the background on the football team. He just liked being out there.

[Dylan McCullough]

I mean I was and I still am very to myself, very quiet and with footballers it gave me a release, you know, at that time because there were so many things that maybe I wanted to do or say that I couldn't. But I can do it on the football field. I can take it out there, you know, I can burn that energy. I can be.

[Sarah Spain]

And then from somewhere within himself is this drive to work harder than everyone.

[Dylan McCullough]

I was writing letters to smaller schools and I was pretty much set to go to the Navy, not to play football. I was going to enlist in the Navy, but then that hard work opened up a talent that showed my senior year on a really, really, really high level. And I was.

[Sarah Spain]

He had been both a running back and a defensive back in high school, and there was a great running back ahead of him for most of his career. So sort of like, oh, I'm just not good enough. That guy graduates and all of a sudden he gets a lot more touches and is blowing people out of the water as a senior.

[Dylan McCullough]

And I was able to get, you know, some offers.

[Sarah Spain]

Bob Stoops is trying to come after him. Jim Trestle, guys who are now essentially hall of Famers, but were at the beginning of their careers. There's this moment too for him where he's deeply embarrassed by his family's situation. He understands how hard it is for his mom, but he also is so embarrassed to have these big name coaches in his living room where they have a giant orange extension cord snaking out of the house through the window and into their neighbors to borrow electricity because they can't afford it. They don't have hot water. He doesn't have a phone until his senior year, which becomes very important as he's taking recruiting calls that they actually do have a working phone. So he's sitting in class, he looks out the window and he sees this cherry apple red Mercedes.

[Dylan McCullough]

Me and my buddies, we look out the window like, oh, everybody's pointing like, now look at this car. A candy apple red and gold Mercedes. You know, something that we had. You never seen something like that before especially.

[Sarah Spain]

And a moment later, he gets a pink slip to go to the office. And the guy that came out of the car was actually there to see.

[Dylan McCullough]

Him and it was like a movie. He turned around like, like he turned around slow and the camera was on him or whatever. And he looked at me and he said, hey, I'm Sherman Smith, running back coach for Miami University.

[Sarah Spain]

Sherman Smith had played for the Seahawks and stayed after to coach and had just left Seattle for Miami of Ohio to go coach at his alma mater. And he drove out this car that he bought from an up and coming rapper named Sir Mix A Lot.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, my God, I'm flabbergasted that Sir Mix A Lot is in this story.

[Sarah Spain]

Yeah, yeah, me too.

[Dylan McCullough]

I like big butts.

[Sarah Spain]

And I cannot lie.

[Dylan McCullough]

You are the brother's kids. And I then when a girl walks in with a itty bitty waist and a round thing in your face, you get.

[Sarah Spain]

But yeah, he goes to the office and meets this guy Sherman and. And he realizes that this aura is coming from someone who had really made it, was from Youngstown, was like him, but had gone on to the NFL. And now he was talking to a guy that had been a star at the highest level and who believed that he might be that too.

[Pablo Torre]

So the idea that again, you know, Sherman Smith played eight seasons at running back for the Seahawks, was a second round pick in the 76 draft, was the guy with Sir Mix a lot's car, which is really like the first line in any biography we need to give. But like, how does visiting Miami of Ohio even work?

[Sarah Spain]

Well, Sherman drives back to Youngstown to pick them up and then takes them there over Christmas break. And a lot of folks are home, but there's a couple teammates around, introduced him to the rest of the coaching staff, walked him around like he loved this school, the facilities, the campus. And then also the character that Sherman showed. Adele, Dylan's adoptive mom, just a good guy who cared about his education, wanted to be a good role model for him. That really impacted them too. Adele wanted to make sure he went somewhere, that if he got hurt or if it didn't work out, he still got an education.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. And so positionally, then what is the, what's the job?

[Sarah Spain]

Well, he's going to be a running back and it's in the weeks before he arrives, they tell him, we're actually going to put you at flanker. He's going to get a lot of playing time. And he was in practice one day. They're getting ready for their last kind of scrimmage and I'm watching one of.

[Dylan McCullough]

The backup running backs and he is just doing outstanding and it's against the backups, but I'm just sitting here and like a tear went down my face and I said, man, I'm a running back, I'm a running back, I'm a.

[Sherman Smith]

Running back and I want to run.

[Sarah Spain]

So we went to meet Sherman Smith and said, I'd rather take a red shirt year and really work to be a running back than be a flanker. So we did that. He actually stepped away from playing time to get to do the thing he wanted to do most, which meant being on the scout team, being a red shirt and having to sit and watch for a whole season.

[Pablo Torre]

And presumably he believes that the coaching staff believes in him. And so Sherman Smith, the coach, his leadership style is best described as what?

[Sarah Spain]

Just a real players coach, an inspiring guy with really high standards, extremely high standards. He would say to every team at the beginning of the season, none of you asked me to be a father, but I'm going to treat you like you're my sons. He cared as much about how do I make these players full human beings that are going to be successful in life as he did about the football side.

[Sherman Smith]

All of which is to say that for Dylan McCullough, who grew up searching for a father figure and never got one, you can guess why this style of coaching felt like more than a cliche.

[Sarah Spain]

And so, even though Dylan is mostly working with assistants because the starters are the ones who get most of the time with the running backs coach and the head coach, he still goes after practice and spends a lot of time just connecting with Sherman and really asking him for advice.

[Sherman Smith]

But before Dylan ever gets to take a single snap at Miami of Ohio, the same thing that happened with Dylan's biological father and Dylan's adoptive radio DJ father proceeds to happen once again with his new mentor in college. Sherman Smith leaves. Because not long after recruiting Dylan McCullough to Miami of Ohio, Sherman himself got recruited by the University of Illinois, where he would become an assistant coach at a way bigger program in the Big Ten.

[Sarah Spain]

And he doesn't want to go at first, but the rest of the coaching staff says, like, this is a great opportunity, you gotta go.

[Sherman Smith]

And so, as Sherman Smith goes a different way, eventually making it all the way up to the coaching staff of Pete Carroll's Seattle Seahawks, his old team, Dylan McCullough understands, he does, why his new mentor had to go. And while the two of them will stay in touch from afar, Dillon finds himself again back on his own, fighting to push ahead by himself one yard at a time. Daugherty off the McCullough, he comes to.

[Pablo Torre]

The near side, he's at the 35.

[Sherman Smith]

30 and out of bounds inside the 15 yard line.

[Chevy Silverado]

He might break that Miami record today.

[Dylan McCullough]

If they keep giving him the ball.

[Sherman Smith]

And that is ultimately how it happened, by the way. By his senior year of college, skipping ahead now to 20 2005, Dylan McCullough would in fact break that Miami record, the school's all time rushing record. After leading the team in rushing for four straight seasons, his whole bet had paid off. But it also imprinted permanent expectations of a different kind.

[Sarah Spain]

Well, everyone was convinced he was getting drafted. This was a guy whose numbers were up there with the, the top running back prospects. And he was sitting with his agent on draft night watching, expecting to be called, you know, maybe third or fourth round.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, and you look at the statistics, I mean, hard to do better Than that. And so where does he get drafted.

[Sarah Spain]

Is the Cincinnati Bengals call him early in the draft. And they're like, hey, man, you excited? He's like, yeah. And they're like, all right, we're thinking about you. He's like, whoa, okay. He doesn't get drafted. A couple teams call right when the draft ends and, you know, extend the training camp offers. He ends up with the Bengals. It is the best situation because of their depth chart. He is going to make the surprise move of an undrafted guy making that roster. He's leading the NFL in preseason rushing yards.

[Dylan McCullough]

And then with two minutes left in our final preseason game of that, you know, of that my rookie year, my knee get blown out and several like. Like all the ligaments get blown up.

[Sarah Spain]

Every kind of damage, you know, compound fracture, mclac, all that stuff. And he, over the next couple years, really puts his time into trying to make it back to the NFL, then the cfl, and at one point even gives a little time to the xfl.

[Dylan McCullough]

And then I just stopped playing because I kept on saying, people say I can't do this. It was always for me proving people wrong, proving people wrong. And nobody would think I can come back after three knee surgeries. And I did. But at that point, I said, you know what? It's time for me to transition to something different.

[Sarah Spain]

He really wanted to try to make it work as a player, but ultimately, this guy just keeps getting handed a tough deal and finding a way through it, finding resilience. And he actually wanted to get into education to help kids who had come up in tough times like he did. So while he's trying to make it in football, he's working his way at residential centers for at risk youth. Then he goes into teaching, and he's trying to help kids. And then he becomes a principal. So, like all these ways, he's trying to learn how to be an impactful male figure in the lives of young people, especially those who have tough childhoods. And football starts sneaking its way, and everybody hears that he was the big football player. So he starts coaching, and he realizes he can use football to uplift kids and make it even more compelling for them to want to stay in school and learn these lessons by using this sport that he loves.

[Sherman Smith]

Yeah, it's just hard, Sarah, to escape.

[Pablo Torre]

This notion that there's a gravitational pull on Dylan. He tries to leave Youngstown, Ohio, makes it out because Sherman Smith ends up convincing him that Miami of Ohio is the place where Youngstown, Ohio, kids can use it as a springboard to go to the NFL. But then the NFL chews him up, spits him out, and he tries to then fight what seems like destiny at this point, because where does he, where does he wind up after trying to be an educator outside of the football field?

[Sarah Spain]

Well, football pulls him back and of course he ends up at Miami of Ohio is where he gets his first college coaching gig. And he's not there for too long. He has pretty immediate success, gets recruited to go coach at Indiana, has success there, helps a couple running backs to the NFL and he gets nominated for coach of the year honors. And he starts doing some coaching internships in the NFL and really starts to set his sights on some bigger programs and the opportunities at the pro level. He ends up doing one of his coaching internships actually with the Seattle Seahawks, which is where coach Sherman Smith was coaching under Pete Carroll. And he gets a chance to really use his skill set in some of the other internships. They kind of just had him watch. But coach Sherman Smith puts him right in there. And he starts to recognize pretty immediately D does that his coaching style is really similar to his old coach. He really picked up a lot of messages from him as I'm going to be a role model and a leader. I'm going to treat these guys like full human beings. I'm not trying to scare them into anything. I'm going to give them respect and they're going to give me respect. In turn, the guys think that he's being a giant kiss ass, that he's just really trying to impress everyone and show them that he's deserving of a spot in the NFL. And they're making fun of him for copying everything Sherman does. You walk like him, you talk like him, you want to be him. And he kind of is at first a little embarrassed, and then he realizes, I don't care if they know that this is how bad I want it. And he literally starts changing his passwords to I will coach in the NFL. He's trying to, like, manifest it that hard.

[Pablo Torre]

Wait, hold on. So as Dylan is like, there's a little swim fan in this, admittedly a little swim fanning of the National Football League, but this coaching internship with the NFL, with the Seahawks, then serves to get him where as his next stop.

[Sarah Spain]

In college, USC comes calling one of the greatest programs in all of college football history. So he's on a plane with his family, he's got kids at this point, and ends up in Southern California. And he is getting some major side eye. When he arrives, he's got Some very unique coaching styles. He likes to fill footballs with water to make them really heavy and harder to hold. And then when you get back to the normal football, you're clenching it tighter. He's got a. A big pylon with a stick, and he's jabbing guys as they're trying to run by to poke the ball out to get them to practice holding on. And that running back's crew is ready to go. And he has yet another really successful squad. Ronald Jones.

[Sherman Smith]

Touchdown dro. All of which is to say that there is now real pride in D's gravitational field at this point. Dylan has already interned for Pete Carroll with the Seahawks, where his old mentor, Sherman Smith was on staff and eager to reunite with them before Sherman himself retired from coaching permanently, imprinting Dylan's speeches, by the way, with Sherman's lessons about responsibility. And now Dillon found himself responsible for the running backs at Pete Carroll's old employer, the University of Southern California, at age 44, not to mention his own biological kids.

[Sarah Spain]

And he realizes there's still a part of him that very much wants to know who he is. And he starts looking on websites and sort of isn't fully committed. And then there's a moment that his mom calls him where the lawyer that helped her facilitate his adoption has passed away, and she can get a box of records from his office.

[Sherman Smith]

And Dyland, you should know, had zero idea that this box even existed. And his adoptive mother, at this moment, proceeds to tell him about some other things inside this box that dyland, at age 44, did not know.

[Sarah Spain]

Things like the orphanage where you were adopted. And he's like, wait, an orphanage?

[Sherman Smith]

But the orphanage was just the beginning.

[Sarah Spain]

She reveals his name was originally John. And he said, why? Why John? She said, I don't know, it's maybe religious or something. Who knows?

[Sherman Smith]

And pretty soon it becomes apparent that the only people who could actually answer these questions with any clarity were the parents that Dylan did not know. And so Dylan McCullough resolves to find out.

[Sarah Spain]

And so first he starts looking in Ohio and ultimately is able to get the call back that they found his papers. But the woman on the other end says, I can't tell you them. I can't send them to you. And he says, what do you mean? And he realizes that she's holding papers for a different state. You remember I said, his mom said, pittsburgh. That's where we went to pick up Dylan when we adopted him. So even though he grew up in Ohio, he was actually born and adopted in Pennsylvania. And the Laws were different in that state.

[Sherman Smith]

But then Dylan discovers something crucial.

[Pablo Torre]

While he was busy coaching running backs.

[Sherman Smith]

Lawmakers in Pennsylvania, it turns out, had finally pushed a thing called HB162 through their legislature. And this was a long, arduous process, but they pushed forward one yard at a time.

[Ad C. McCullough]

Thank you very much. As I'm sure everyone's aware today, we'll be. We'll be holding a discussion about a bill intended to give adoptees access to their original birth records here in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. The legislation that we're here to discuss is House Bill 162, which has been introduced by the good gentleman from Centre County, Representative Kerry Benninghoff.

[Sherman Smith]

And in fairness to D Land, I also had zero idea that adopted children.

[Pablo Torre]

In various states in America prior to.

[Sherman Smith]

HB162 and various state bills like it were not allowed to view their own birth records. That this was, in fact, illegal until recently. In fact, the only reason I found out about it at all was from talking to Dyland and Sarah and researching this story ourselves. So now just try to imagine how Dylan McCullough felt as he sat there waiting at age 44.

[Dylan McCullough]

November 2017. I'm sitting in my office, obviously, at USC, and I just said, man, I wonder what's going on with this adoption paperwork. It just hit me that day. And then when I got home, I'm just going through the mail, and it was. And it was there. I got it right here. It was there.

[Sarah Spain]

Well, first he is sort of surprised at how thin the envelope is and figures it must be something telling him they couldn't find it. And imagine getting the mail and it's like, you know, 10% off at bed Bath and Beyond. And then your birth certificate, like, that's how unassuming this letter was.

[Dylan McCullough]

So the top of it, it says non certified. I mean, non certified copy of original birth record. Date of birth, December 1, 1972. It has the date that it was issued in November 2017. And then it says, name given at birth, John Kenneth Briggs. Sex male. Place of birth, Allegheny County Parent, Carol Denise Briggs, age 16.

[Sarah Spain]

So they all start Googling. He plugs in Carol D. Briggs in a couple places and ends up finding her, sends her a message on Facebook and essentially just says, did you have a baby that you gave up for adoption in Pennsylvania in 1971?

[Dylan McCullough]

I got a message on my phone saying, message red. So my heart was like, oh, shoot. Start beating like, oh, I'm beating crazy.

[Sarah Spain]

And at first, she accepts the message but doesn't answer. And then he sends a follow up question mark and she messaged back yes.

[Dylan McCullough]

So I was in a meeting at that time and I got up and walked out of the meeting. So I said, what did you name the baby? She said, john. And she spelled it the exact same way it is on here. And the water work started at that point.

[Sarah Spain]

So she had been a 16 year old honor student, had had an oopsie, and her family sent her off to an orphanage slash home for mothers and girls in Pennsylvania to have the baby in private, be pregnant in private, and then go back to school with no one the wiser. She didn't tell anyone but her parents and her one cousin. She didn't even tell the dad because he was already off to Colle and she felt responsible.

[Dylan McCullough]

I said, where are you? She said, youngstown. I told her where I lost her. I was living in Youngstown, you know, come to find out we were only 10 minutes from each other.

[Sarah Spain]

Probably passed him in the aisles at the grocery store. They were in the exact same place. And it just happened to be that the family that adopted him out of Pennsylvania was a family that lived in Youngstown.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, this is where I just command Dylan, the reporter. By the way, Sarah, like you're a good journalist. Like Dylan, just like he found out, Pablo finds out is an impressive feat and one, by the way, that I imagine. I'm just trying to put myself in his shoes for a second because this is overwhelming. I must imagine on some level to know that his mom was actually around very nearby this whole time.

[Sarah Spain]

At first he thinks, well, wait, if you're in Youngstown, do I have siblings? Like, I might know them, right? If you had other kids, I might have grown up with them. Who else in my family might I have known? And she did not get married, she didn't have any other kids, and she'd been looking for him for years. And it's just really heartwarming how much joy she felt in not only finding out he was okay and successful, but now she has a son and grandkids and this extended family.

[Pablo Torre]

And the logical next question, obviously, as he continues to find out, is, all right, who's. Who's my birth dad?

[Sarah Spain]

Yeah, he says, it doesn't list a father on my birth certificate. And he asks her, do you know who my father is?

[Dylan McCullough]

And she said, your dad is a man by the name of Sherman Smith. When she said that, I was like, my mind was blown.

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[Sherman Smith]

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[Pablo Torre]

It'S just the sort of twist you, you dream of. You know, it's just jealousy is what I feel. I feel jealousy, I feel awe. I feel like I'm watching a weird version of the Sixth Sense in which, you know, Dylan has been seeing his dad the whole time actually, and that's wild.

[Dylan McCullough]

Your dad is a, a man by the name of Sherman Smith. And like I said, when she said that, I was like, my mind was blown. And she said like, I was like, you could hear, she could obviously hear me kind of choke up and get emotional. She said, well, what's wrong? I said, oh, I know him. He recruited me. He was my coach and he's been my mentor for the last 20, whatever years. 20 plus years.

[Pablo Torre]

How does Dyland then tell Sherman what he has found out?

[Sarah Spain]

Right. He's nervous about it and isn't sure what to say. But he asks his birth mom Carol if he can be the one to tell him.

[Dylan McCullough]

So I reached out to him, I sent him a text and I said, hey, coach, I need to talk to you about son.

[Sarah Spain]

45 years later, he's going to get a phone call from someone who says, I'm your son that he knows.

[Dylan McCullough]

I just kind of jumped right into it. I say, hey, what's going on, Coach? Hey, what's going on? I said, you know, I'm adopted. Yeah, I know you're adopted. I said, I found my biological mom. So my dad is, you know, really strong in his faith. He's. Oh, man. He was, you know, man, you know, God is good, man. That's a blessing. All these different things like that. And I said, well, a little bit more. He said, what's that? And I just kind of ran straight through it. I said, her name is Carol Briggs. And when I asked her who was my dad, she said, you. I just ran straight, just like that. And it was silent on the other end. So I'm excited. He's blown away. And then he, maybe in a couple seconds, maybe less than a minute later, he said, leland, I need to get off the phone. I need to process this.

[Sarah Spain]

He's spent his entire life wondering about his birth parents. But For Sherman, it's 0 to 45 year old son with no warning. He hasn't been looking for that. He has a happy wife and family and kids. But he almost doesn't want to imagine that he could be the kind of person who made a choice that resulted in other people having to be responsible. He had always told his players, there's no such thing as irresponsibility. When you're irresponsible, someone else becomes responsible for what you didn't do. He has led a life leading young men and telling them how to be. And then he recognizes that he might not have been the guy he always thought he was. And so at first he's not overjoyed the way Dylan would hope. He needs some time.

[Dylan McCullough]

I initially took that as a blow, but then I quickly flipped because he sent me a text here a little bit later on and he said, hey, man, Carol knew she had a baby. You knew you had parents out there. I knew nothing.

[Sarah Spain]

And then he starts thinking about how the story isn't his, it's Dylan's. How Dylan has spent his whole life looking for this piece of himself and how he needed to stop centering himself and consider what it meant to Dylan to find him and really consider that it could be true. They get a paternity test. It's 99.99999999%. And as he's waiting for those results, he realizes that he will in fact be very sad if he is not his father. By this point, he's come around to the idea that they've had this connection, that this story is almost faded.

[Pablo Torre]

How long does it take for Sherman Smith the coach to become Sherman Smith the dad? How does how does the language around that change, given their relationship has been long and intimate, but in this, again, non biological way, it isn't crystallized until.

[Sarah Spain]

They see each other in person for the first time. After knowing their connection as father son, Dylan's actually got recruiting trips that allow him to get near Tennessee and where. Where Sherman lives in retirement and goes there for the very first time to see his dad as his dad. There's this just incredible moment and I cry every time I think about it. I cried writing it. I cried the first time Dylan said it. But Dylan goes to see him for the first time in person after they know of their connection as father son. And he's nervous and sitting in the car and Sherman looks out the window and sees him sitting, and he's like, oh, this cat's nervous. Like he's just sitting out in his car, not coming up, even though we've known each other for years. And when Dylan gets to the door.

[Dylan McCullough]

Doorstep, I get up on the porch and he opens the door, he just said, my son. And it was like, oh, the tears start rolling again. Because I've never been referred to as somebody's son. He embraced me fully, four arms wide open and said, my son. He embraced me. And it was, here we go.

[Sarah Spain]

His adoptive dad left when he's 2. He hasn't had a dad since. And he, he didn't realize how much he was carrying feelings of, am I enough? Am I worthy? Does someone want to claim me? And for this man, this ideal of a person to embrace him and call him his son, he just sort of let his inner child release and cry and be embraced by this man.

[Pablo Torre]

And so now we're in the present, Sarah, and they have this relationship. They have talked to you about it. You're updating your reporting.

[Sherman Smith]

What, what's it been like?

[Pablo Torre]

What's it been like since they got to have that, I mean, truly cinematic level of, of embrace?

[Sarah Spain]

It's been joyful mostly and also complicated. And for me, doing the story the first time, we did a lot of work on it, but nothing like writing a book. So the hours and hours of interviews, all the people I talk to, all the detail I unravel, and I mean, there's a twist with his brother that I didn't know the first time I reported it, that I think is day one stuff if I was talking to someone. And his brother didn't think it was day one stuff. So I didn't find out till I start writing the book that there's a whole nother parental twist. That goes on in his family even before what happens with his dad. And so you have to read the book for that. There's a tease that we're not giving away in this interview. But yeah, as I'm doing more of these interviews and I'm talking to everyone in the family, I am working so hard to understand each perspective. You've got an adoptive mom in Adele who sacrificed so much to raise these two boys as a single mom, thinking that she was gonna have this partner in AC, the radio dj, and instead she's alone post industrial collapse, not a lot of money, and they turn out so well. They become these successful young men. And then here come these birth parents who have a lot of judgment at first about what he went through as a kid. They wanted the best for him. Both Sherman as someone who cared about him and had met him as a young man, and then Carol, who gave him away with the expectation he would end up in a two family home. Everything would be this idyllic setting. You imagine an adoptive family that really wants a baby and can't have one of their own. And instead he has this really tough childhood. And so it's almost a role reversal of a lot of adoption stories you hear, right where the birth parents are struggling or fighting something. They give up a baby and here come the saviors to fix everything. And instead you've got these two incredible, well adjusted, successful adults looking at this woman who did her very best but still struggled at times. And so to really understand, like, what he got from Adele, his adoptive mom, and then what almost certainly came to him through DNA, how similar he is to Sherman, even though they didn't meet until he was 17 years old, and even though he was in his life as a mentor, but not all the time, like how he became, I mean, the same exact life.

[Dylan McCullough]

It's surreal. I mean, it really is. We both from Youngstown, we both went to Miami, we both go into the hall of Fame at Miami, we both go and play pro ball. We both are careers in because of knee injuries. Both of us, right after playing football, go into education. Both of our first jobs in college was at Miami. Our next job was both in the.

[Sarah Spain]

Big Ten, won a Super bowl, lost a Super bowl. Both of them to Tom Brady, had sons, son goes to Miami of Ohio, plays defensive back. Like, is a teacher. Like, it's just, it's remarkable.

[Pablo Torre]

At the center of that Venn diagram, along all of these, like, overlapping circles is at least one dud. In this case, Pete Carroll, who happens.

[Sherman Smith]

To be the guy who employed both of these men as coaches in the NFL.

[Pablo Torre]

Can you catch us up to just the unending gravitational field around Dylan McCullough and his life?

[Sarah Spain]

Yeah, I mean, he just took a job with the Raiders and he is now coaching under the boy wonder who I guess never ages and retires Pete Carroll, who could be both the head coach of his dad as a running backs coach and now the head coach of, of dealing with the Raiders.

[Sherman Smith]

And it is funny to hear Dylan.

[Pablo Torre]

Tell us about what Pete Carroll had detected back when Dylan was an intern with the Seahawks and Sherman Smith was a coach on the staff because Pete Carroll kind of sniffed this out before, you know, the DNA test did.

[Dylan McCullough]

Like in the beginning, one of the staff meetings, Coach Carroll, you know, he going through his thing and he just looked down, he said, hey, you know what, something's going on here. He said, we're sitting up watching you two guys looking across the field at you guys working with the running backs. You guys walk the same point, the same talk the same. He said, it's just crazy. And we just laughed.

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[Sarah Spain]

And so, understanding that we are both a product of what made us and also of everything around us also implies choice, which is like the through line of this book is, yes, you are handed certain genes, yes, you are handed certain family, certain circumstances. But your choice at every turn impacts whether you make it out, whether you make it right, whether you make it good, whether, like Dylan, you decide to end a bunch of cycles that you don't think serve you or your kids. I don't want to be a father who abandons his family. I don't want to be abusive. I don't want to be somebody who doesn't stick around. I want to be the opposite of what I saw. And I think especially with adoption, that's very poignant because with adoption it's, I could be anyone. I could live anywhere. I could be named anything. Like instead, he said, at every turn I'm in charge and this is my choice.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, that's the thing I realize about the way I've been hearing this story up till really now, which is I thought that this was a story about a guy sucked into a gravitational field beyond his control. And then you realize that actually he is the one making these calls himself. And part of what it is to live in this profoundly, seemingly scripted, unscripted story is that the choices he makes are the ones that bring him back to who he is.

[Sarah Spain]

We always say you don't get to choose your family. And he did.

[Pablo Torre]

God, put that in the trailer. Put that in the trailer for the movie.

[State Farm]

Sarah.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, is it hard to not think about the movie? I mean, look, we talked about managing the surprise in the reveal.

[Sarah Spain]

Well, and here's your final fun fact. Two of the executive producers on the film we are planning to make but have not yet signed a studio to are Russell Wilson and Ciara. Just like Sir Mix A Lot. I'm just dropping that in. I was gonna say, guess what the potential for this film is unliime.

[Sherman Smith]

Oh my God.

[Pablo Torre]

Does Sir Mix A Lot know this story? Does he know what you're up to, Sarah?

[Sarah Spain]

Gosh, he does know what I'm up to. He used to be a regular listener to Spain and Fitz on ESPN Radio.

[Sherman Smith]

So this is where I need to report that I have now spent a chunk of my Memorial Day weekend reaching out to Sir Mixalot for comment comment on whether he does in fact know what Sarah Spain is up to lately with this book, with this story, and also whether Sir Mix A Lot is aware that former NFL coach Sherman Smith bought his candy apple red and gold Mercedes and then used it to recruit a running back that Sherman Smith would only realize decades later was actually his baby. A baby he didn't know about, but a baby he got back. I mean, I just wanna let that one sit for a second.

[Sarah Spain]

I remember that I posted about the car and it being Sir Mix A Lot's on Twitter and tagged him. I don't think he responded, though. I remember the last exchange I had with Sir Mix A Lot was, not surprisingly, about butts.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm searching for this and February 3.

[Sherman Smith]

2020 at Sarah Spain.

[Pablo Torre]

Don't know what prompted it. Quote, are we talking butts today? Question mark. I'm in. And you replied via quote, tweet. We always know we can count on you.

[Sarah Spain]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

At the real Mix winking emoji.

[Sherman Smith]

But I don't know if that's true anymore, honestly. Because what I'm also here to report is that Sir Mixalot has not yet.

[Pablo Torre]

Gotten back to me.

[Sherman Smith]

I sent him and his manager a whole bunch of texts over the weekend. I even dialed his hotline per what I thought were very clear instructions.

[Dylan McCullough]

Dial 1 900, mix a lot and.

[Sherman Smith]

Kicked him now and I got nothing. And so sir, mix a lot near the end here. If you are listening, sir, we have our own hotline actually that we would like you to call. So please dial the PTFO tip hotline at 51385, Pablo. That is 51385, Pablo, a very real number you can call and please do.

[Pablo Torre]

Get back to us. This has been a lot to find out today, Sarah. I have a feeling that that is not in the book, that exchange.

[Sarah Spain]

Yes, that Twitter exchange is not in the book, but lots of other good stuff is. So ye know, read it, buy it, order it, tell your friends.

[Pablo Torre]

Sarah, thank you for making the choice to do this with me. It's been a real pleasure.

[Sarah Spain]

Thanks for having me.

[Pablo Torre]

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out A Meadowlark Media Production and I'll talk.

[Sherman Smith]

To you next time.

[Sarah Spain]

Sam.