Pablo Torre Finds Out

Podcast Episode: "Poaching Data, Little Dragon: Uncovering China's Secret War for Athlete Brainwaves"

Release Date: September 16, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre (PTFO)
Main Guest Contributors: Sam Koppelman (Hunter Brook Media), Logan Ryan (NFL), Dr. Riccardo Ceccarelli (Formula Medicine), expert commentary from Nita Farahani (Duke University)

Overview

This episode investigates the startling intersection between sports tech, brainwave data, and international competition. Pablo Torre, alongside investigative reporter Sam Koppelman, explores how brain-computer interface (BCI) technology developed by the American-Chinese company BrainCo—originally linked to Harvard and MIT—has quietly (and perhaps secretly) become a tool in China’s ambitions for technological dominance and "cognitive warfare." With firsthand accounts from elite athletes and exclusive reporting, the episode reveals how neural data from top sports figures may now be in the hands of a foreign government, raising deep questions about privacy, national security, and the ethics of athletic optimization.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Rise of "Cognitive Warfare" (03:29–08:15)

• Pablo Torre introduces the "World Humanoid Robot Games" where China's Unitree robots dominated, bringing up the nation’s focus on AI and robotics.
• Sam Koppelman sets the larger context: the new "arms race" is not just about AI, but mastering the human brain itself via BCIs.
• China actively invests in tech that can read brain signals, aspiring to gain military and civilian advantages.
• Quote:
  • “China’s prioritizing what it calls cognitive warfare...this technology, as it develops, is going to be able to do things like read your brain, see if you’re responding positively or negatively...catch you if you’re lying or disloyal.” — Sam Koppelman (06:41)

2. The Tale of BrainCo and the Export of Athlete Brainwaves (08:46–13:16)

• BrainCo, a "Harvard-born" startup, becomes central as a consumer-focused BCI device manufacturer, now headquartered in China, with deep Chinese government ties despite its American academic pedigree.
• FocusCalm, their device, is widely used by athletes to track and optimize performance.
• BrainCo’s valuation surges as it pivots to the Chinese market and partners with top sports figures and robotics companies.
• Quote:
  • “An American company with years of research from Harvard and MIT scientists is now on China’s team in the next space race.” — Koppelman (11:20)

3. Athletes, Endorsements, and Unwitting Data Sharing (16:05–22:20)

• FocusCalm (BrainCo’s wearable EEG headset) is adopted by sports stars like Jannik Sinner (tennis), Iga Swiatek (tennis), Mikaela Shiffrin (skier), and partnerships with organizations like USA Weightlifting are highlighted.
• NFL player Logan Ryan explains how FocusCalm training improved his on-field focus, admitting he never questioned data privacy or company origins.
• Quote:
  • “I believe in training the brain, but you got to be careful who you do it with.” — Logan Ryan (00:06 & 47:41)

4. BrainCo’s Shadowy Pivot Toward China & State Control (22:20–29:33)

• Hunter Brook Media’s investigation uncovers direct investments from Chinese state entities, including military-affiliated conglomerates.
• BrainCo’s neural data harvest began with Chinese schoolchildren under surveillance and then pivoted toward elite sports.
• Eventually, most of BrainCo’s US staff are laid off, with activities consolidated in China, now listed among Hangzhou’s "Six Little Dragons"—elite, state-supported tech firms, including Unitree Robotics.
• Quote:
  • “In China, it’s not like optional to share information and data with the government.…they have a national Intelligence law that requires Chinese companies to cooperate with intelligence services when requested.” — Koppelman (25:21)

5. The Italian Brain-Driver: Dr. Riccardo Ceccarelli’s Testimony (34:46–42:08)

• Dr. Riccardo Ceccarelli, “the most Italian person” ever interviewed by Pablo, describes using FocusCalm with F1 drivers and top athletes, and confirms direct collaboration with BrainCo since 2019.
• Dr. Ceccarelli admits privacy protections for athlete brain data are just being implemented now, even after years of partnership.
• Quote:
  • “Many thanks to Brainco...this was for us the best and more reliable...But now we have a legal team...to develop a system that they are encrypted, that they are protected at 20...” — Dr. Ceccarelli (38:49, 41:42)
• Dr. Ceccarelli openly names his Rolodex of star athletes whose brain data was collected, including mentions of Manchester City football players.

6. Privacy Policy and Source Code Revelations (42:08–45:30)

• BrainCo’s privacy policy, upon scrutiny, is found to be confusing and recently updated—after the media inquiry—but GitHub code analysis shows third-party developers could access user brainwave data every half-second.
• BrainCo denies all allegations, claims local-only storage and no military connections, but updated its privacy policy days after being contacted.
• Quote:
  • “All EEG data remains in the focuscom application within the user's smart device and is purged...All accusations about data collection and sharing are false.” — BrainCo official response (42:08)

7. Legal, Ethical, & Geopolitical Stakes (45:30–65:13)

• Logan Ryan, upon learning about the Chinese military ties and the data sharing, is shocked and alarmed, saying he would have wanted to know.
• Nita Farahani, bioethics professor at Duke, contends that BCIs like FocusCalm—while not as precise as Neuralink-style implants—can still be powerful, especially when combined with AI.
• She warns that “greenwashing” (branding BrainCo as a Harvard-MIT company) helps obscure true motives and enables foreign data collection for military or “oppressive” purposes.
• Quote:
  • “Maybe BrainCo is part of the pathway either to distribute it internationally and be able to collect biometrics from individuals...or to be able to develop brain interface technology…to be able to share commands, for example, within the military, or to...communicate with a device in an incredibly secure and very difficult to intercept manner.” — Nita Farahani (58:38)

8. The Future: Sports, Surveillance, and Trash Talk (65:13–67:54)

• The episode concludes with speculation: Could China use brainwave data from Western athletes to train their own super soldiers or robots?
• Logan Ryan jokes about his brain controlling future robot defenders:
  • “If they have a Logan Ryan robot come out, they’re going to be making some quick decisions, some smart decisions...they’ll be tough to beat.”
• Pablo and Sam riff that future sports rivalry could be between “the robot that stole my brain waves and the robot that stole your brain waves.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “Arms Race” in AI/Brain Tech
  • "The 60s had the race to the moon. Today, China and the US are locked in a battle over who can master the human brain itself.” — Koppelman (05:40)
• On Athlete Buy-in
  • "We are the children of Moneyball, Sam...This isn’t a story about the future. This is a story of right now.” — Torre (45:56)
• On the Broader Threat
  • “What does it do to sports? What does it do to competitive sports?...If we become complicit in a system that means we give up data willingly, knowing it could be used to harm other people...I think I'd say it is your problem.” — Farahani (63:46)
• Humorous Text Exchange with ‘Dr. Han’ (BrainCo Founder)
  • A bizarre text convo with Dr. Han: “You ask me if I am Dr. Han. I say yes. Thumbs up emoji. Gangnam style peace sign emoji.” (53:10)
  • Closing: “Unsubscribe.” (53:41)
• On the Lasting Impact
  • “The robot that stole my brain waves is going to kick the [expletive] of the robot that stole your brain waves. It’s a weird time, Pablo.” — Koppelman (67:40)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:29–08:15 – Introduction to Humanoid Robot Games and ‘Cognitive Warfare’
• 08:46–13:16 – BrainCo: From Harvard to China, with athlete and Harvard connections
• 16:05–22:20 – FocusCalm adoption among elite athletes
• 22:20–29:33 – Investigation: Chinese government links, layoffs, ‘Six Little Dragons’
• 34:46–42:08 – Dr. Ceccarelli’s insight: F1, tennis, privacy concerns
• 42:08–45:30 – Privacy policy changes, code investigation, official BrainCo denial
• 45:30–65:13 – Ethical, security, and privacy stakes; expert analysis; athlete reaction
• 65:13–67:54 – Closing reflections: The future of data-driven trash talk

Conclusion

In a deeply reported and darkly comic episode, Pablo Torre and team reveal how the global tech race now plays out on and inside the heads of elite athletes. Devices sold as harmless sports enhancers may actually be conduits for exporting some of the most intimate personal information—our brainwaves—to authoritarian regimes, with profound implications for privacy, sports, and geopolitics.

“You try to accept to be, to get better in your field and you’re willing to do what it takes…But you gotta be careful who you do it with.” — Logan Ryan (47:41)

Final take: The new edge in sports may come down not to who has the best training, but whose brain data is safest from prying eyes — and who gets to train the next generation of (possibly robotic) champions.