Pablo Torre Finds Out: “We Sparked an NFL Union Crisis. Here’s the Sequel.”

Podcast: Pablo Torre Finds Out
Host: Pablo Torre
Main Guest: Mike Florio (Pro Football Talk)
Date: July 17, 2025

Episode Overview

In this follow-up to a previous bombshell episode, Pablo Torre and Mike Florio dive even deeper into the unfolding crisis within the National Football League Players Association (NFLPA). Building on their earlier reporting, which publicized a long-buried 61-page arbitration ruling exposing owner collusion to suppress guaranteed contracts, this episode unearths additional secrets, including a second, never-before-seen arbitration ruling, internal union turmoil, leadership conflicts of interest, and a culture of secrecy that has left players in the dark and the union’s reputation in jeopardy.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Recap of the Collusion Case and the Union’s Secrecy

• Background: The original reporting involved an unprecedented cover-up of a secret legal document exposing collusion by NFL owners, with participation and knowledge reaching up to Commissioner Roger Goodell.
  • Pablo speedruns the recap (02:14): “...the NFL Management Council was caught doing something, but escaped something else.”
  • Florio summarizes the collusion: “Despite having the cookie crumbs all over their shirt and a mouthful of cookies, they convinced the arbitrator...they're not eating the cookies that you think...” (02:14)
• Key Issue: Why did the union leadership, not just the league, want these revelations buried? Why was even the union’s own membership left uninformed?

2. Leadership Transition and Unusual Union Secrecy

• JC Tretter’s Role: The Browns’ release of center JC Tretter (then NFLPA president) coincided with both DeShaun Watson’s landmark contract and a secretive search for a new executive director.
  • Tretter engineered this process with NDAs and constitutional amendments, keeping candidate names secret even from player reps. (05:29)
  • “We had no idea who the candidates were.” — Mike Florio (05:29)
• Appointment of Lloyd Howell: Howell, former Booz Allen CFO (involved in a historic federal fraud settlement), becomes executive director and in turn creates a powerful role for Tretter inside the union. (06:09)

3. Player Disillusionment and Fear of Speaking Out

• Chris Long’s Perspective: Former players like Chris Long question the union’s motives and call for accountability.
  • “If you were a player right now, Chris Long, and you realized your union president had done that, what would you think?” — Pablo (07:32)
  • Chris Long: “Get this guy out of here... And I got plenty of money... But for me, the thing that makes me upset is...the NFLPA is kind of looking the other way.” (07:33)
• Widespread Fear: Most players and agents fear reprisal or discipline from both the league and the union. (09:09)

4. The Secret NDA and Litigation Freeze

• ESPN’s Report: Recent ESPN reporting by Don Van Natta Jr. and Kaelin Kahler uncovered an NDA between the league and NFLPA to bury the collusion ruling and freeze further legal action.
  • Florio: “If you’re representing the interest of the players, there’s no reason to hide this...” (10:16)
• After this report and the media pressure, the union finally exercised its right of appeal, which Pablo and Mike call a clear reaction to public exposure—not a proactive defense of players. (12:04)
  • “There is no way that that appeal right gets exercised when it does if the secret deal hadn't been blown up, sir, by you finding the 61 page document.” — Mike Florio (12:04)

5. Lloyd Howell’s Carlyle Group Conflict

• Bombshell Conflict of Interest: Florio reports that Lloyd Howell, while being paid $3.4 million to run the NFLPA, is also consulting part time for the Carlyle Group—one of the NFL’s pre-approved private equity partners, now able to buy NFL team stakes.
  • “It is a cartoonish conflict of interest that the union doesn’t care about.” — Mike Florio (13:43)
• The union releases a public statement denying internal turmoil and defending Howell, but behind the scenes, even hires an outside law firm to investigate. (15:10, 16:00)

6. A Second Secret Arbitration Ruling: The “Fake Injury” Case

• JC Tretter’s Podcast Comments: In July 2023, Tretter, then union president, implied on the Ross Tucker Football Podcast that players could fake injuries (aka “hold in”) to gain contract leverage—a reality many insiders already knew.
  • “I don’t think anybody would ever say they were fake injuries, but we’ve seen players who didn’t want to be where they currently are have injuries that made them unable to practice and play.” — JC Tretter (23:02)
• NFL Sues Over Comments: The NFL filed a grievance against the NFLPA and Tretter on Sept 11, 2023. (25:28)
• Exclusive Scoop: In a PTFO exclusive, Pablo reveals that the union actually LOST this grievance (Feb 20, 2025), kept it secret, and failed to inform their player reps—even omitting it from official annual reports.
  • “On February 20, 2025...the NFL won this grievance...The grievance is sustained.” — Pablo (31:17)
  • “He was...encouraging players to stage their own individualized wildcat strikes, period. And don't do that. You can't do that.” — Florio (32:11)

7. The Pattern: Burying Losses, Suppressing the Truth

• No Transparency: Despite losing the “fake injury” case and partially winning the collusion case, neither was reported to players in official channels.
• Quid Pro Quo? Pablo and Florio suggest a deliberate pattern in which the union and league tacitly agreed to avoid embarrassing each other—benefiting leadership insiders but not rank-and-file players.
  • “Let’s trade off something that would have been potentially to the tremendous benefit of the players...for something that worked to the benefit of one person...JC Tretter.” — Florio (33:48)

8. Conflicted Vetting and Power Structure

• Union “Investigations”: The special committee examining Howell’s conduct notably excludes current union president Jalen Reeves-Maybin (41:31), who claims to want a truly player-driven union.
  • “I just think that it’s important to have someone willing to speak up for the players...a lot of times things get misconstrued with who’s controlling the players or who’s running the union...” — Jalen Reeves-Maybin (42:37)
• Independence Questioned: Florio notes all "independent" law firm investigations tend to reflect their client’s preferences.

9. Manipulated Messaging and Social Media Spin

• Carlyle Group Edits: Pablo uncovers that NFLPA-edited videos omitted Howell’s admission of his role at Carlyle and his statements on conflict of interest at the 2025 Super Bowl.
  • “I am an operating executive at the Carlyle Group...” — Lloyd Howell (full version, 50:01)
• Selective Editing: These cuts hid damning admissions from both players and the public.
  • “I don’t know how you defend that. Making conscious, apparently deliberate...edits to Lloyd Howell's comments.” — Florio (51:53)

10. What Happens Next?

• Prognosis: Pablo and Florio note this is no longer about improving player conditions, but about leadership power, personal benefit, and now possibly legal exposure.
  • “At some point, an ambitious prosecutor has to be thinking, there’s a lot of smoke here. I’m gonna go try to find the fire.” — Mike Florio (53:57)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Despite having the cookie crumbs all over their shirt and a mouthful of cookies, they convinced the arbitrator, we’re not eating the cookies that you think we’re eating.” — Mike Florio (02:14)

• “If you were a player right now, Chris Long, and you realized that your union president had done that, what would you think?” — Pablo Torre (07:32)

• “Get this guy out of here...The NFLPA is kind of looking the other way.” — Chris Long (07:33)

• “It is a cartoonish conflict of interest that the union doesn’t care about.” — Mike Florio on Lloyd Howell & Carlyle Group (13:43)

• “There is no way that that appeal right gets exercised when it does if the secret deal hadn't been blown up...by you.” — Mike Florio (12:04)

• “On February 20, 2025...the NFL won this grievance...The grievance is sustained.” — Pablo Torre (31:17)

• “He was...encouraging players to stage their own individualized wildcat strikes, period. And don’t do that. You can’t do that.” — Mike Florio (32:11)

• “Let’s not beat the out of each other publicly. Let’s hold our tongues and trade off.” — Mike Florio (33:48)

• “I’m an operating executive at the Carlyle Group...It could be for conflict of interest reasons...But in my experience, you can work through that.” — Lloyd Howell (50:50)

• “I don’t know how you defend that. Making conscious, apparently deliberate...edits to Lloyd Howell's comments.” — Mike Florio (51:53)

• “At some point, an ambitious prosecutor has to be thinking, there’s a lot of smoke here. I’m gonna go try to find the fire.” — Mike Florio (53:57)

Key Timestamps

• 00:24–02:14: Speedrun recap of the original collusion bombshell; cookie jar metaphor.
• 05:29–06:09: The “total secrecy” of the new executive director search and JC Tretter’s role.
• 07:30–08:28: Chris Long on player frustration and union leadership.
• 10:06–10:59: NDA and legal freeze on collusion ruling.
• 13:15–14:42: Lloyd Howell’s side gig with Carlyle Group—a clear conflict.
• 21:52–23:02: Ross Tucker Podcast: Tretter floats “faking injuries” for leverage.
• 25:28–26:08: NFL files grievance over Tretter’s comments.
• 31:17–32:44: Pablo reveals the union lost the grievance—and hid it.
• 34:17–34:32: Tretter himself promotes “creative leverage.”
• 41:31–43:18: Who’s really in charge? Jalen Reeves-Maybin’s absence from committee.
• 45:56–51:21: Sequence exposing omitted Carlyle admissions in NFLPA communications.
• 53:57: Closing reflection: “an ambitious prosecutor” and the specter of criminality.

Conclusion

This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out strips away the mystique of the NFLPA’s inner workings, revealing a union riven by secrecy, institutional conflict of interest, and apparent self-preservation at the expense of its own members. With a steady stream of scoops—including the exposure of a hidden loss in arbitration and manipulation of public messaging—Pablo and Florio make a compelling case that the crisis they helped catalyze is far from over, raising the stakes for leadership, accountability, and the future of labor relations in America’s biggest sports league.