Roy Wood Jr. Will Not Let This Interview Go Viral

Summary

Podcast Summary: Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: Roy Wood Jr. Will Not Let This Interview Go Viral
Host: Pablo Torre (The Athletic)
Guest: Roy Wood Jr.
Date: February 28, 2026

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Overview

This episode features comedian Roy Wood Jr., known for his wit on The Daily Show and Have I Got News For You, in a candid, incisive conversation with Pablo Torre. The episode explores the evolving landscape of media, the perils and burnout of constant podcast guesting, the impact and ethics of viral content, the tension between authenticity and virality, and the future of both traditional and new media creators. Roy and Pablo unpack personal and industry-level revelations about what it means to build, maintain, and defend a creative identity in an age of relentless content aggregation.

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Main Discussion Themes

1. The Rise and Fall of "America's Podcast Guest"

• [04:10] - [10:30]

• Roy’s Prolific Podcast Appearances:

  • Roy jokes about being on "at least 96 different podcasts" in a single quarter, with Pablo verifying it was around 50 in one year.
  • Quote: “I found myself showing up half ass for a lot of podcasts... I knew within question three, I know what this is, and I've done 90, so I know where it's going to go.” (Roy Wood Jr., 08:29)

• Podcast Burnout & Saying No:

  • Burnout from overexposure and repeating himself led Roy to draw boundaries around podcast appearances. A pivotal change came when he was cast in a Barbershop sitcom, giving him time off from interviews.

• The Guest (Not) Making the Show:

  • Roy reflects on his time in morning radio, the rarity and value of genuine, intentional interviews, and his desire not to dilute his presence by saying yes to everyone.

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2. Media Business Savvy and Career Choices

• [10:30] - [17:00]

• Media Economics & Job Insecurity:

  • Roy discusses being strategic about creating his own "restaurant" (projects) rather than laboring indefinitely in others' media ecosystems, especially with network instability looming.

  • Quote: “I've said it, too many other people's restaurants. I need to build my own. … Everybody’s gonna need a restaurant.” (Roy Wood Jr., 11:46)

• Ownership and Creative Control:

  • Roy talks about moving on from projects—his employment podcast, “Roy’s Job Fair,” was left behind when he exited Comedy Central and The Daily Show, partly due to lack of IP control.

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3. Podcasts, Going Viral, and the Risks of Aggregation

• [17:00] - [29:00]

• The Danger of Out-of-Context Clips:

  • Roy recounts a viral controversy after a Club Shay Shay interview clip, in which a nuanced, tongue-in-cheek comment about reparations was extracted and used against him online.

  • Quote: “When you clip that bitch just right, it looks like I’m out to murder the descendants of slave masters.” (Roy Wood Jr., 18:12)

• Virality and Editorial Control:

  • Both Pablo and Roy examine the ethics and inevitability of aggregation, the drive for producers to get maximum engagement, and why more creators are focused on "self-aggregating."

  • Quote: “You can become a part of somebody else’s propaganda… if I’m going to be snippeted up all the time… I should do most of that in my own pulpit.” (Roy Wood Jr., 21:35)

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4. The Video Revolution and the Decline of Audio-Only Virality

• [26:12] - [33:40]

• J.J. Redick as a Case Study:

  • Video is king: “Audio doesn’t go viral, video does.” (Pablo Torre quoting J.J. Redick, 26:28)

• Production Standards and the Algorithm:

  • Roy laments the rise of "jump cut" editing and how analytics-driven production shapes even stand-up: “We are enslaving our creative to consumers who are behaviorally a school of fish…” (Roy Wood Jr., 30:41)

• Short-Form Content and Attention Spans:

  • Roy speculates on the future: “...ten one-minute episodes of a thing… if that becomes the new behavioral consumer habit, then I think slowly we revert back to people just watching a ten-minute thing.” (Roy Wood Jr., 32:26)

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5. Streaming Culture, Audience Evolution, and Work Ethic

• [35:10] - [44:49]

• Streaming Stars & Burnout:

  • Pablo and Roy discuss the pressure on streamers like Kai Cenat and Speed, the money made, and the psychological toll.

  • “It’s profitable. But if you can look into the eyes of these streamers during the part that they know isn’t gonna go viral… you can smell the burnout.” (Pablo Torre, 36:49)

• The Benefits of Perseverance:

  • Roy underscores the importance of perseverance: “The Internet is like getting booed every day.” (Roy Wood Jr., 44:25)

• Evolving with Your Audience:

  • They explore how creators must adapt as their audiences mature (e.g., Timothy Delaghetto's personal revelations and content evolution).

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6. Constructive Criticism, Feedback, and True Value in Creativity

• [49:41] - [57:58]

• Handling Criticism & Feedback Loops:

  • Roy describes developing "hatred dag up a system" (thick skin) from live-tweeting Last Comic Standing, handling both adoration and vitriol online.

• What the Audience Actually Wants:

  • Often, what goes viral isn’t what the creator most values: “My most viral joke is a joke that ain’t even from none of my specials.” (Roy Wood Jr., 51:39)

• On Redefining Success:

  • Roy talks about letting go of ownership—“...so much of what we do, it just, it don’t belong to us. Once we hit upload...”

  • Some content’s value can be in shaping industry—“I would argue a lot of what you’ve done...has been seminal in creating deeper arguments and discussions around entire industries...” (Roy Wood Jr., 50:28)

• Thoughtful Critique and Reddit:

  • “If I’m getting criticized...Reddit comments are probably what I would put at the top tier because there’s a lot of thought.” (Roy Wood Jr., 55:20)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Saying Yes Too Much:
  “I had to decide to lock in on and start doing more of...saying no.” (Roy Wood Jr., 05:37)

• On Short-Form Content Evolution:
  “Nobody will watch a ten-minute episode. But you'll watch ten one-minute episodes.” (Roy Wood Jr., 32:26)

• On Endurance in Creativity:
  “You have to be able to persevere past somebody giving you a thumb down and saying you ain’t [shit].” (Roy Wood Jr., 46:15)

• Pablo on Aggregation:
  “We got to self-aggregate. We got to be ahead of the aggregators.” (Pablo Torre, 25:13)

• Meta-Humor on Podcast Clipping:
  “No, we're going to cut it before proverbially, yes. Roy Wood Jr. wants to punch children in the face.” (Pablo Torre, 48:44)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [03:02] - Roy on the limited number of people he'll go on a podcast for (opens with comedic riffing)
• [04:27]–[06:21] - Roy’s podcast burnout and transition to acting in the “Barbershop” sitcom
• [08:29]–[10:29] - Diminishing returns and learning to say no, guesting etiquette
• [17:35]–[21:48] - Club Shay Shay viral clip saga—on jokes, aggregation, and internet outrage
• [26:12]–[29:30] - The supremacy of video over audio in virality; business model implications
• [35:51]–[37:03] - The streamer lifestyle, burnout, and the fleeting nature of internet fame
• [44:49]–[47:38] - Handling online negativity, difference between constructive and destructive feedback
• [51:39]–[52:19] - The Street Fighter joke & the unpredictable nature of virality
• [55:17]–[57:38] - Roy on useful vs. superficial feedback, and the paradox of craving audience approval

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Concluding Thoughts

• The show, true to its theme, is a thoughtful, sometimes sardonic meditation on media, creativity, virality, and self-worth in the age of constant content. Roy Wood Jr.’s blend of humility and industry insight, along with Pablo Torre’s sharp questioning, offers both creators and fans plenty of food for thought.

• The episode ends with Pablo and Roy teasing the idea of a “Street Fighter” podcast as a sly commentary on how audience appetite and creative intent often diverge—a perfect coda for a conversation obsessed with the gap between what we mean, what gets noticed, and what lasts.

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For further detail, listeners are encouraged to explore the full episode, particularly the segments highlighted above.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds out. Presented by Ebay Live, I am Pablo Torre. And today you're gonna find out what

[Roy Wood Jr.]

this sound is Rocatu doesn't like. Jim Jong dash slash.

[Pablo Torre]

That's the part we're gonna aggregate from this episode right after this ad.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

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[Pablo Torre]

So before we jump into today's episode, a quick shout out to our sponsor, Ebay Live. Ebay Live is where real time excitement meets rare, exclusive hard to find cards, collectible sneakers, watches and so much more. You can bid in live auctions, catch exclusive drops, buy directly from trusted sellers. While it is all happening live and it feels fun and interactive like a show, not just shopping with great hosts, creators and streamers. So download the ebay app and tap the ebay live button to tune in today.

[Event Host / Announcer]

I am here today to introduce Pablo Torre and his special guest, Roy Wood Jr. Now Pablo Torre finds out is a sports show that I think sports lovers would love. But even I, who I don't really consider myself a huge sports lover. I love the liberty, I love the Olympics. But Pablo covers things in such a way that even people who think they don't love sports will be so engaged. So recent episodes include one with Sir Mix a lot sharing his hot take on sports and butts. And I also really loved a recent episode where Pablo dug deep into Donald Trump's takeover of public historic golf courses in Washington D.C. just fascinating. Looking at things from a social perspective, looking at things from a historical perspective, not just from a defense offense perspective with his work. So he's just great, a great conversationalist. We're so excited to have him here today. Again, this is Pablo Torre, but also with a special guest, Roy Wood Jr. Who I know everybody in this room knows and loves from the Daily show and have I got news for you. Please welcome Pablo and Roy to the stage.

[Pablo Torre]

Hello, hello, hello, hello.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Hello, Brooklyn, good to see you. Pablo.

[Pablo Torre]

Roy, I have questions for you.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

There's only like three mother that would have left the house for like on some podcast tip. Not like where I am now right now. You Bomani Jones, Trevor, Noah, I think those are the three people Tamron Hall, Sherri Shepherd, Tamron Hall. But they don't do podcasts. They do, like the regular.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

TV show stuff.

[Pablo Torre]

The metal stand is getting crowded. Let's stop you listing people before I get demoted.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I said yes to too much last year.

[Pablo Torre]

I was gonna say we're here to Investigate Roy Wood Jr. I don't know if Roy realizes that.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I don't, but I saw what happened between you and Mark Cuban, so I figured there would be some sort of poking and prodding. I'm happy to be here, bro.

[Pablo Torre]

All jokes aside, legitimately not joking, we're gonna. We're gonna get into some of the metrics in your life.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

You were on, at our last count, at least 96 different podcasts.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Is that just last year?

[Pablo Torre]

That was. That was, yeah. Q4 actually. Trying to figure out the business.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

No, seriously, in your research last year, it was. It was. We had to count 50 or it was too many.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. And so. And so.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Too many.

[Pablo Torre]

You've. You've become a bit of a snow leopard. You were America's podcast guest, and now there's a point in the timeline where you stop showing up.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

What. What, Roy? What happened?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

The burnout. Also having a degree in journalism. And you will appreciate this, it becomes very evident. Oh, also seven podcasts that still haven't been put out yet that I did last year for a bunch of who are just sitting on the content for no reason. And when they finally put it out, it's gonna be outdated as hell. I'm looking forward to the NFL season. It's like, where's we should champion?

[Pablo Torre]

What takes do they have From Roy Wood Jr. In the back of the fridge right now? What's sitting back there that you're like,

[Roy Wood Jr.]

what pisses me off? I will say I did that many podcasts and it's probably indicative of. Of my inability to tell people no sometimes. Which is one of the first things that I had to decide to lock in on and start doing more of going into this year. So that's probably where you saw like a clear cut drop off on POD episodes with my name. And I'm probably. End of October, early November.

[Pablo Torre]

Yep.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

There were a couple of stragglers that were put out then, but I stopped recording, stopped meeting with people. And then I also got blessed. I got booked for. They're doing a TV series of the Barbershop franchise for Amazon. They're doing a sitcom. And so I get cast in a sitcom.

[Pablo Torre]

And the character that you are playing, the casting call for that character. How do you describe what the role is?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I'm wearing a beard now. When have any of you ever seen me with a beard?

[Pablo Torre]

That was my next investigation was why the does Roy have a beer now?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Because I had to play older like they want. I'm not quite Seth the entertainer old, but my character represent. Not to on set, you know what I meant. But my character represents the wisdom and kind of the old sage oracle of the shop. And I just figured facial hair would help to convey that. And you wouldn't necessarily presume me to have a hot political take like I do with the goatee, so. But I got cast in the sitcom and the blessing of it is that it shot in Chicago. So I literally was unavailable for two and a half months. And it was like the perfect thing to wean me off of just saying yes to so much stuff. And I think part of it is that, you know, when I did morning radio, I did mornings in Birmingham for about a decade. And I remember so many people who just would not come on our show. They'd have a concert in town, literally just wouldn't come on the show. And we used to be so gracious and appreciative when people would come on. And then there were the comedians who would come on and their show was already sold out and they still came on. I remember appreciating, oh, the Bruce Bruces and the Sinbads and the Wayans brothers of the world, like they would just still come on. And I just remember being so appreciative of that. So when you get emailed by like it could be you one day and those go through the PR people and then every blue moon there's just a college student, hey, I'm doing episode two. You want to with it or not? And I remember being that kid. And so you know what? Yeah, let's sit down. And you know how I am. I don't really have any restrictions on topics or anything. So like that. That becomes part of the problem in a way.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Because you'll sometimes sit with people that just don't have an agenda. They have literally have no idea what they are doing or they're asking you questions that you've already answered 40 times. So how lively can I re answer this question? And I don't mean like promo questions like tell me about the book or tell me about the Hulu special. It's just literally, how did you get started? And you can Google that, bro. Come on. Come with a better question than that. And so I started. I found myself showing up half ass for a lot of podcasts, because I knew that, like, within my question three, I know what this is, and I've done 90 according to you, so I know. I know where it's going to go. Based off question three, I know what the next seven questions are. I've already answered them in my head. I have prompter up in the. Like, at the home. Like, if I'm doing an at home podcast. Oh, I got the prompter box set up, baby. And I'm mirroring my laptop screen on top of the camera lens, and I'm surfing the Internet while just having a chit chat with a random person. And sometimes it's interesting and I'm locked in, but I just felt like you shouldn't do that to yourself. And also, there comes a point in your life and career where at some point you have to choose yourself and do something for yourself. And I've had a lot of time now that I'm back, now that Chicago production is done, I've had time to lock in on other tasks and things that I really do need to work out. And now I sit here in the midst of a presumed merger of Warner brothers, who own cnn and, like, quietly figuring out, okay, we get canceled, what am I gonna do next? Maybe I should have been thinking about that last year. And so it's time to take a little bit more focus just on myself. It's not personal.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, but the reason that you are the perfect person to sit here with me today is because I consider you somebody who is deeply savvy and preemptive about the business of media. Because I regard you as somebody who not only will be thoughtful in terms of how you do media, but you're out here trying to figure out who's getting one over me. How can I make sure that I am not losing the race that I'm not even aware is being run? And you're also somebody who is, frankly reporting on this stuff, even if it's just for your own personal edification. Like, the question of why is Roy not doing as many podcasts now was kind of an economic indicator to me. I was like, oh, what does Roy. What did Roy figure? What did Roy find out? And the thing about the instinct here, the instinct that I feel all the time, doing three episodes a week, you know, which I can't say without a little bit of just edge a week and shout out to my producers for whom I do not forget the sacrifice we've made of our families to do that. The whole point is to say yes, is to always be churning. And so I'm detecting in you not just like, ah, mental, sort of like reset, but also like, there's an inefficiency. Maybe it's.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I've. I've said it too many other people's restaurants. I need to build my own. It's no disrespect. I don't have a restaurant. And it's coming to a point where everybody's gonna need a restaurant. The restaurant I'm currently working at is under a hostile merger from Paramount. And you have to be realistic about that. You have to be. And it's not to be pessimistic about whatever.

[Pablo Torre]

Do you get updates from anybody from the inside who's like, you should know that this thing just happened?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

You gotta understand, man, I'm on cnn, but we're a Saturday show. So it's like, you ever seen that trailer next to the public school? Like, we're over there and it's by design so that we're not too close to the newsy button down so that we don't become that. But so they have us up the street at the CBS center. I get more Barry Weiss updates in the hall. Because we're in the same building as CBS News. And so I'll see them in the hall. I'll be like, what's going on? They're like, I'm too busy trying to dodge her in the hall. Cause we've done jokes about her, you know. But I think that, you know, you look at something like legacy media, like cnn, we're the number one show in our demo on the network, we're the number two show overall. I don't mean if the President wants you out the door. And that could very well be a possibility. If it's about holding a grudge versus a numbers game. If it's about do we keep the show that gives us good ratings or do we get rid of the show because it makes the President feel bad sometimes? So I have to be conscious of that and figuring out how I'm going to build, you know, my thing. And that's probably something that I didn't really have to think about when I left the Daily show. Because I knew that I was going on tour to prepare the Hulu special and I knew I was writing the book. And at the time, I had a. I had a pilot in motion with Fox, so I had pots on the stove. We could focus on that. Well, now we're on the other side of Hulu. We're on the other side of the book. And I think it's reasonable to think about that. Even if we don't get canceled at cnn, it's not a bad idea to have something else. But just at the time, it was just. That was an overwhelming thing to think about. Well, what's my show going to be? And what's my thing going to be? And trying to figure it out. And I had a podcast, but I knew it wasn't something that would live in a capacity like this. Like, it was a great niche podcast. It was called Roy's Job Fair. And. And we literally talk to three different people every week about their style of employment and the nuances of their jobs and what they do. And so it was originally started during the pandemic to help people find jobs. So when I did morning radio, we had a segment called who Got that Work? And for the entire 9 o' clock hour on the radio, if you are working somewhere that is currently hiring, call the station so that someone without a job can know where they can go look for a job today. And that was kind of the genesis. So people from emerging industries and whatever that went 99 episodes. Comedy Central owns the IP to that. So when I made the decision to leave the Daily Show, I essentially abandoned that podcast as well. And to still do a different version of that while doing book and tour and Hulu, like, it just. I just didn't. But, you know, now I gotta figure it out.

[Pablo Torre]

But on the job fair, what job were you most delighted to hear about that you didn't totally understand until you

[Roy Wood Jr.]

had them in your podcast, Crime Scene Investigator. We had a whole episode about dead bodies. So it was just jobs that involved dead bodies and like, if a dead body is anywhere within the skull. We had, we had the funeral home director, but the crime scene investigator who's talking about the process of. I won't gross you out, but. But like the process of cleaning up all of that type of stuff. I was like, that's a very interesting thing. And then found out that didn't know this. Funeral homes compete to get bodies from a crime scene. So there are a lot of funeral homes. He's nodding. I didn't know this at the time. Funeral homes have police scandals.

[Pablo Torre]

I have my eye on the guy who knows this now, very eagerly affirming Roy's observation.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Funeral homes have police scanners and if they hear about the street, you hopping the hearse like the Ghostbusters and speed to the crime scene in the hopes that the family of the deceased will choose your funeral home because you're just you're here. And, like, that's fascinating to me. That's just oddly fascinating. So that was the show, and that was kind of the gist of it, but it's not a broader thing. Like, Netflix isn't gonna call me. This is doing great. We gotta put this on the homepage. Like, that's. So figuring out something that's a little bit more connected to people is what I've been exploring. Last year, I think I figured it out, but I just knew in the meantime, I need to sit still, I need to start saying no and just figuring out what's what for me. I've been in New York 11 years. There's nobody in the city that could say, I told him no. I might tell you not right now. And figure out a different time. So I've been giving him my time. I feel like I've been benevolent and all of that stuff. So, you know, you have to pay it back. But I think it was that, bro. And then also there was a club Shay Shay interview that I did, and

[Pablo Torre]

this came up in our research.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Which one? Which clip? The one that got me all the hate.

[Pablo Torre]

I'd like you to explain the hate.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

We have to explain the clip first. Like, so I get. And I say this because this is what the correspondence dinner was, the first instance of this. But the clip. Shay Shay clip.

[Pablo Torre]

This is Shannon Sharpe's podcast. He's on, like, a chaise lounge. Roy's on an equivalent leather fainting couch of sorts. And there is Courvoisier or something.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

It's cognac and it's real. That's not unsweetened tea, undoubtedly.

[Pablo Torre]

Sponsored.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Yeah, we're drinking and we get into a run talking about my ancestry and my lineage and all of this stuff. And part of me is talking about the fact that when I did. I did Finding youg Roots, and during the episode, they found the descendants of the people who owned my family members. And so I'm joking in the clip about finding the house where these people now live, the descendants of the old slave masters. Great, great, great grands. And just pulling up to their house and asking for reparations. And then I joked, and then I said, I Zillowed their house. They don't have any money. And I said something along the lines about, yeah, I might just pull up on their house and see what's up. And there's a whole part. There's a whole preamble to that snippet that sets up that I'm joking and that this is. I'm not really out to murder the descendants of slave masters, but when you clip that bitch just right, it looks like I'm out to murder the descendants of slave masters. So that clip goes flames online and there's a couple of clips from the interview that all do their respective arguing and bickering about fatherhood and just three hours in drinking. You're gonna talk about everything. But that clip gets put out into the right wingosphere as Roy breaks contained. Yes, yes. Roy hates white people. He wants to kill white people. What about the blacks that enslave? You need to talk about that. I wish you would run up in my house email box, just DMs, just a barrage of it. And I'm like, what am I doing? Like, you go back and I go back and look at the Shay Shay interview and it's like we're having these conversations and of course anything we say now is going to be clipped and distilled down into something that's bite sized and profitable for whomever you're sitting with. And you know, my buddy, my little brother's in the comments. First off, I have two younger brothers. They're psychopaths on the Internet.

[Pablo Torre]

How old are they?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

37. Too old to be psychopaths. And they are like going to war with people in the comments who are like, bashing me and I'm like, the

[Pablo Torre]

family members who want to defend the honor of their loved one is one of my most. I get it.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

But it did.

[Pablo Torre]

It's tragic when my mom wants to

[Roy Wood Jr.]

go to war for me. No, but it didn't. Like, it sucks that that happened, but that's on me. Because if you're talking in a way where you can allow yourself to get sliced and diced, they're gonna do it. When I did the correspondence dinner, I did jokes across the gamut of topics, across the gamut of political sides, and every outlet you could name took one of my jokes and used it to push their agenda the next day, no matter what it was. Fox News had a joke they liked. CNN had a joke they liked. I did a Vanderpump Rules joke. E. Online. Roy Wood eviscerates and even talked about Lisa Vanderpump.

[Pablo Torre]

Did you do that with the knowledge that you would get aggregated by E?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I didn't know who Vanderpump was. I just trusted my writers. It was a joke about power and 50 Cent. It's online, you can watch it. But like 50 Cent took a clip where I mentioned the television show power. So everybody, whatever you say, you can become a part of somebody else's propaganda. And that's just what it is. And it's like, all right, well, if I'm going to be snippeted up all the time for what I say, then I probably should do most of that in my own pulpit so that there's a better context. And then I have control over how the clip is cut. I have no control over what Club Shay Shay is going to do. Because at the end of the day, you know, Shannon Sharpe's editors or your editors or whoever, it's about whatever's gonna get the best engagement or make the point that you want to make as the producer. So I'm not mad at Shannon. I'm not mad at the angry white boys who think that you can push that lie. But I would hope that I have enough Runway of precedent, behavioral precedent, where the average proper thinking person would know that that's not what I meant and that's not my intent. I do still wanna meet those people though. But not to murder. To have a conversation and just to

[Pablo Torre]

have their house reappraised.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Yes,

[Pablo Torre]

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[Roy Wood Jr.]

He'd be on Netflix homepage right now.

[Pablo Torre]

Absolutely.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Right next to Breakfast Club. He'd be right there.

[Pablo Torre]

And JJ immediately saw the business that we're describing and he was like, oh, wait a minute, okay, so audio doesn't go viral, video does.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Correct.

[Pablo Torre]

And I was like, oh, like he's right. And so the question is not do we want to object to the principle of how dishonest some of the aggregation is? It's make peace with that being the business and then figure out how do I preempt it.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I still think the good stuff will be consumed properly. I think we are at a point with podcasting where because there's so much out there, I believe people are a little bit more picky about what they want to consume because you name the topic, there's at least 10 people within that sphere. Except for employment, there was only four employment podcasts and none of them funny. That was part of why I chose. But like the idea that you can just go on and talk about something nonsensical or you can ask lazy questions. Because also that was the other thing. If you're a fan of me and I go on a new Podcast and they're asking old questions. Well, why the would you keep listening like, and then you're on my ass to post the link of, hey man, we did the episode. Make sure you post. Why? So my fans can hear me answer the same goddamn question again. Because you didn't think of anything creatively new to bring to the conversation, to bring to like that part of it. You don't always know when you're getting something nutritious, but you know how you feel after you consume bull. And, and I think podcasting is approaching that. And then we're gonna get to a point where the things that are not getting eyeballs at some point will fall by the wayside. And yeah, the streets get to choose and YouTube gets to decide a great deal of what grows. But ultimately I think we're in a place where the same way the entertainment like right now we make, I think, is it 60, maybe 40, let's just say 40% fewer scripted shows than we did pre Covid just because of industry contraction and they're hedging bets and they don't want to put a lot of money into everything. I think podcasting is something similar. Like you're not going to have these big podcast networks that are just throwing six digit checks at people, hoping that something returns. The money train's gone. It'd be like 15 years ago with the web series, I don't know if you remember Funny or Die and Super Deluxe and all of those websites. That was the way 15 years ago, just shoot your own web series. They were given, they were given like $100,000 to creators to shoot 10 episodes of a web series. Just that wouldn't happen now. You would have to shoot that yourself and then get traction and then maybe you get some sponsorship deals or whatever. But yeah, I think that, I think video is what sells. And because you start talking about video now, it has to be something that's actually worthwhile and then it's gonna push the envelope of how it's presented.

[Pablo Torre]

Do you ever think, and I confess, that I think about this too much. Do you ever marvel, as I noticed by the way, that you're still wearing your beard even though the show's done tapered.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Yeah, you cut it. Cause they might do reshoots in April and I've been growing that since October, so I'm scared. And even now it's still patchy. Like, this isn't a trustworthy beard.

[Pablo Torre]

You're a method unk.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I'll take that.

[Pablo Torre]

But I wonder, as you inhabit this role, if you marvel at what is required in terms of what the audience demands as per production value. Because I will scroll through my feed and I'm somebody who fetishizes editing and camera work and production. And man, could you describe, like, just because you remember what it's like to be multicam and all that. And now what?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Yes, and now jump cuts are the norm. They're even preferred. Preferred to some degree. Just get to the point.

[Pablo Torre]

It's authentic to do a jump cut mid sentence.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

It used to drive me crazy with standup because I saw comedians who I knew would do the joke one way live and within the Internet, they would cut out the pregnant palsus within the joke. And I'm like, what are you doing? Hey, man, I did my analytics and I noticed the thing went down and I started doing it like this and the thing went up and I'm like, all right, I guess you can't argue with that. I just, I hate that we are enslaving our creative to consumers who are behaviorally a school of fish and you don't know which way they're going to change or turn. And I think it takes a lot to really stand tall in the midst of just going with the flow. Like, that's very, very hard. I'm not crazy about it. But then I also, you know, when it comes to, like, social media management, I've had a couple different people and I remember at the Daily show, you know, you would always take something and then you would show it to the interns before you posted it. And like, they just got here. But they're also the eyes that we want to consume this thing. And they would give you pointers and move this and they would be right. They would be right every time. I mean, right down to captions and how captions now move with one word and like, that drives me up the wall. But if you're saying that's what I gotta do so that I can sell tickets in Toledo next month, then all right, fine, then that's what I have to do. I just have to hope that you will come see me live and get the more elongated, proper version of the thing.

[Pablo Torre]

As the chef intended.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Yeah, as the chef intended. And I really feel like when you look at what's happening now with how we consume content, it's all short order. The one thing that gives me some degree of hope is this Korean drama vertical thing that's supposedly gonna be the new thing where it's ten one minute episodes of a thing. Nobody will watch a ten minute episode. But you'll watch ten one minute episodes. But it changes how you write because they write essentially cliffhangers every minute. And it's huge. It's huge over there and that trend is starting to happen over here. And so if that becomes the new behavioral consumer habit, then I think slowly we revert back to people just watching a ten minute thing. Cause if you'll binge ten one minute episodes, eventually your viewing habits will turn will evolve into you just watching 10 minute. Like if you're a 20 year old right now and, and you watch 10 one minute episodes by the time you're 30, you'll have the attention span in theory to watch something for 10 minutes and then we're back to 20 minutes and then we're back to regular sitcom 1988 land.

[Pablo Torre]

What if you read so many Cliff Notes that it was actually just the same length as the book?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Maybe like that might be the world take a book and break it into like four volumes. Now I look at that and I just wonder. Cause also I'm 47 and I go, all right, well who the hell is my audience? What am I doing? What do I want to talk about? I like the news. I enjoy talking to strangers. That's one thing that I do know. And I feel like that's very across the board. You know, I used to love watching Larry King Live with my dad.

[Pablo Torre]

What about Larry King Live?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Just regular people, bro. Like when he would just have regular people calling in. There was. Was it Tom Snyder? The Late Late Show. The Late Late show before Craig Ferguson if I'm not mistaken. It was Tom Snyder. And he would take calls. There's clips of this man on the Internet, Tom Cruise is in the chair and he goes, hang on, Tom. Yes, we had a caller call. Hello. And just a regular person that's talking to Tom Cruise was fascinating to me. Jay Leno would do jaywalking. That was fascinating to me. Like just the idea of connecting with people like that. So that leaves me some degree of hope. But I just feel like I'm not going to creatively work from a place of what is there a market for?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, let me deduce something based on your stated preferences, which is that there is a job right now in which people are react spontaneously to live breaking events and dealing with strangers all of the time. And they're called streamers, they're called these, they're called kai senat and speed and these kids. And do you watch with curiosity any of what those kids are doing? And I wonder, Roy, if you, if you were you know, born, I don't know, 20 years later, 30 years later, you might have been one of these very industrious young people.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I would have had to have been a streamer. That's the way I will. The one thing I am grateful for with these streaming kids when I see them, is that I know that they've made more than enough money to be able to take the time that they're gonna need in their 20s to emotionally recover. Like on some mental health.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Cause if you look at what Kai Sinat is doing now, Kai Sinat has transitioned off of streaming into fashion. And this young brother doesn't stream nearly as much as he used to. And he's having fallouts with his social circle from his streaming days. And I don't click the links, but I see it. And, you know, you see a link and it's like, Rakatu doesn't like Jim Jong Dash.

[Pablo Torre]

That's the part we're gonna aggregate from this episode.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Roy Wood Jr. Talk about Carson Nelson. No, like, I. I see those kids and I'm like, that's gotta be exhausting.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, man. If you ever can look into the eyes, it's profitable. But if you can look into the eyes of these streamers during the part that they know isn't gonna go viral, when they're just working on camera. Yeah, you can smell the burnout.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Correct. And so I'm like, all right, I don't know what you graduate to next from that, but you've got more than enough money to go sit away for a decade. And average American makes 3 million in their whole lifetime. I know they've cleared that at least. So you got time to go and sit. But then you look at a kid like Speed, and this brother went to Africa for a whole two, three months, two, three weeks or so, and showed sides of the country that I've never seen on any travel show and show perspectives that we've never seen about the black experience and the global black diaspora that otherwise wouldn't have been shown. So it's like, thank you for that. But I also look at it and I know that's a sacrifice because I know what it's like. Just the Daily show is a 12 hour shoot and we get to have a snack. You don't never see Speed having a snack. Like, he. That boy is just go, go, go. And he's running and he's learning and it's exciting and I hate that I cannot remember his name. But I'm so happy that the young brother out of San Francisco I think Michael, who's now the new host of Reading Rainbow and that's going to series, and that's someone that was just passionate about a thing, and everything else found him. So I think if I'm passionate about whatever it is I really want to do, you find the people that are passionate about it, and you build community together. I don't know if I could. I don't. Like. I have clips in my phone of stuff I was gonna post three weeks ago. I still haven't posted it. The idea of just a camera sitting in my face at all times, I just. I don't. I don't know. I don't know if I could do that. I also don't know how you quantify. Like, how does that grow beyond. Because I think the interesting thing that every streamer or Internet sketch comedian has to contend with is the maturation of their audience. And eventually, if you start at 16, 17, and that's your audience, by the time they're 24, 25, their taste in humor is gonna change. Like, if you think about the things you laughed at at 16, that's why they say, like, everybody has a period where they really loved snl. And then everything on either side of that, it's just. It's kind of whatever. It's kind of take it or leave it. I think when I look at a lot of these streamers now, I'm curious of what they'll become when they start approaching their 30s, because their audience isn't gonna be into the same things. And then unless you're mar. Someone who's into that as well. But, you know, we had. This isn't the first generation, you know, of streamers. You know, there was a guy that I used to follow from Wild N out named Timothy Delaghetto. And so Tim was OG 1.0 streamer YouTuber. Filipino. Yeah, Filipino. Don't make me guess the race.

[Pablo Torre]

Roy is too good at noticing the traps I'm trying to sets.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I'm telling you, I'm talking. You ain't going to get me.

[Pablo Torre]

Malaysian Roy.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Guess the wrong race and I'mma tell y', all, I had Tourette's. So.

[Pablo Torre]

He has a very specific issue.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I'm not on that guy. I'm just.

[Pablo Torre]

It's highly specific and resonant to a certain.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

What I'm saying is that you don't know if I'm telling the truth or not. So I'm going to just start. I'm going to use it like the idea. So you look at a guy like Timothy Delaghetto who was 1 million percent open book to everybody. And then like that was like, nah, this is me, this is my family. Here's what I will give you and the rest of this is my life. It's my own personal place to be. And so I think age wise, once they kind of hit that same turn, it'll be interesting to see what type of content they transition into and what type of new style of content the next wave of kids get into. And that's why I don't think a network can really get behind that. Hell, Twitch don't even know what to do with speed half the time. You know, they don't even push them to the forefront half the time. So it's the idea of even understanding what that is. By the time you realize what it is, you'll be behind the curve. I just think young people, they're going to continue to use tech and probably a little more AI to dictate how they entertain themselves. And I think just once you're 25 and over, then you're kind of into the more traditional ecosystems. All these broadcasters and streamers are going to just, they're going to continue to merge and implode on themselves and eventually just re blossom. The force will blossom again with way too many shows the Way it Was.

[Pablo Torre]

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[Roy Wood Jr.]

So your accomplishments are not legitimate for real.

[Pablo Torre]

And the thing that I've made peace with as I watched the increasingly dead eyes of these streamers is that the issue is the opposite. They have such work ethic. And the work ethic is what I see in you. It's what I pride. I take pride in myself and in our staff at the show. And I wonder, you know, I don't want to set you up for like a motivational coaching pep talk, but it does feel like those who don't have that work ethic are probably correct.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

And that all comes down to whether or not you have that degree of tenacity. I feel like Drew Ski is kind of a interesting case study as well, where you have a kid who did quick and easy sketches online, same as everybody else, iPhone8, low light, whatever, and then the next thing you know he's in a wire harness floating like a Baptist megachurch pastor. Like high tens of thousands of dollar budgeted level sketches. And that just came from repetition, repetition. Also not being worried about rejection. And there is a veneer of perfection that you believe that you need to always have at all times on the Internet. And if you don't have the perseverance to push past that, like the Internet is like getting booed every day.

[Pablo Torre]

How are your nerve endings on that?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I'm indifferent. Like it doesn't bother me. Like even like in the thick of racial slur. The only thing I don't with is death threats. I take that serious. I elevate that right up to cnn, Warner Brothers, FBI, mother or whatever. But like everything else, just does it. It's never really bothered me. But I got lucky because I came up at a time where live tweeting was just beginning to be a thing. And this is 2010 and we did Last Comic Standing and the network contractually made us live tweet the episode under the hashtag every Monday night. I'm on the show for two months straight. I keep advancing every round. So every Monday night for two hours straight, I'm under this hashtag and you're to reply to anything about you. Hey, Roy, it's funny. Thank you. Make sure you watch next week. But in between all of that is him. And he's not funny. And you look like Kenan Thompson. And you look like a crackhead. Kenan Thompson is what they said. I was skinnier back then. Racial slurs. So just imagine for two hours straight, you just consume the worst of yourself, and then the west coast feed comes up and you gotta do it all over again. So I did that for two months, and it was kind of like, I don't know, some sort of weird hatred dag up a system. Learn how to become a Jedi at not letting things bother me. But when you look at. To that point of work ethic, you put out one or two sketches that suck and everybody hates on you and tells you you're terrible, and then you cower and you stop when now you're. And now the algorithm only rewards repetition and constantly being fed. So you have to persevere beyond that and constantly, constantly put stuff out. And I think the thing that I've always found interesting about Drew Ski and even Desi Banks is the evolution of the content and being able to be a little bit on the pulse of whatever we're talking about, you know, more culturally than, like, it's not necessarily current event sketch like this happened yesterday, but it's more about. This is a conversation we're having at large as a people. And whether you think this stuff is funny or not, it doesn't matter, because he's found the people that like it, and then he grows it. And I think you have to be able to persevere past somebody giving you a thumb down and saying you ain't. And it's the same with the podcast, because the one thing I learned over the years is that nobody remembers what they hate. They just go, I didn't like it. Now, if you say something hateful, like we're getting into cancel culture, that's a different thing. But just you put out a sketch today and nobody liked it, all right, Put one up tomorrow and keep it moving, or lean into the fact that it wasn't funny and laugh with the people. So I just think that that's part of what separates the people who make it from the ones that don't is that perseverance and. And a lot of these kids are not battle tested because they've come up in a everybody gets a hug kind of culture. And I'm not trying to, like, sound like an old man, but you need to get punched in the mouth a couple times proverbially. Like, you need to get. You need to.

[Pablo Torre]

No, we're going to cut it before proverbially, yes.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Yeah, you need to.

[Pablo Torre]

Roy Wood Jr. Wants to punch children in the face.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I can't believe that Roy Wood that Pablo would have on this racist. I just, I feel like that's the thing that separates a lot of people. And sometimes that's what stalls me because I can overthink things now because I have the resources and I have the people I can bounce the ideas off of and analyze it and I can. Well, let me look at the market and see who else is doing what and then decide instead of just putting something out there, because there's stuff you'll see. Like some podcasts you were following three, four years ago and you look at it now and go, wow, that really grew. And all they did was just keep doing it. It's not like they did anything magical. What's the number? 80% of podcasts, they don't make it a year or something like that. Like, for all the podcasts we have this time next year, 80% of them will be gone.

[Pablo Torre]

It is like NBA player probabilities. We're going towards the complete unlikelihood that this will work out for you.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

But, but it's not like those podcasts were canceled. They didn't all have a deal. Yeah, yeah, you just stopped.

[Pablo Torre]

But, but, but, you know, the. I realized that the saving grace of our experiences online when it comes to dealing with feedback is the same thing I struggle with, which is that all of this is so disposable. The thing that shouldn't keep me up at night. That comment is also the thing that plagues the stuff. I want to last forever, that I am molding with this staff of people at this show and hoping endures.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

But why do you want that to endure? Is it not the deal? Especially if we're talking. Especially if we're talking current events and depending on the nature of the pot, like, if it's like, I would argue a lot of what you've done, especially in the last year, has been seminal in having and creating deeper arguments and discussions around entire industries. Like that's. Those are things that are long lasting. Like when the Clippers have to go, oh, what are we gonna do now? Pablo done dropped the podcast like that. That shapes industries. That's going to change. It's going to like fiscally affect industries like that. I think when you set out to do that, did you know that? Did you treat it like that or did you just create? And I feel like so much of what we do, it just, it don't belong to us. Once we hit upload, like, once we put it out there. My most viral joke is a joke that ain't even from none of my specials.

[Pablo Torre]

What's the joke?

[Roy Wood Jr.]

It's a Street Fighter joke. And I say it with that snark because I didn't put any effort into, like, it was just. It was a joke. Yeah, I like it. I did it on Comedy Central, but it wasn't like when you do an hour special. These are jokes that I've slaved over for two years and polished each corner to make sure that every political point is exactly the way I want. And then off at the comedy solo one night, I do a joke about how Street Fighter. The people in the background aren't paying attention to the fighting. 40 million views.

[Pablo Torre]

This sumo wrestler's karate chopping a car over and over again.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Thousands of comments, and they're like, this is brilliant. I'm like, you did not watch my. About gun control, bitch. I've got stuff way more fire than the Street Fighter joke. But if the people have decided that what I put out, that that's what they want to consume, I'm cool with that. And if anything, it makes me go, all right, if I want you to come to my standup for the subliminal political thing, then maybe I would benefit from having a little bit of, you know, something a little lighter in there. I think that as much as we want to dismiss people, we want to dismiss negative consumers. But then all of a sudden, the ones who love it, we allow that to fill our soul. So does the person who did not like it for a reason, like, what was the reason? And you don't have to get into the silly metrics of when somebody punched out an eclipse, But a lot of that, it's what's happening now. You ever. You ever notice when you watch a movie preview now there's a preview to the preview. There's literally a three second preview of what you're about to watch. And then it says, preview starts now. And then it start. It's like, what the. But if I want people to come see the movie, that's what I got to do.

[Pablo Torre]

They're going to chew up the food and spit it into our mouths and make sure that we are going to digest it.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

And I hate it. I hate it. But then if you hold firm because you know we're not talking, if you're Christopher Nolan or Scorsese, you don't have to follow those. Ryan Coogler is not going to give you the preview to the preview. But if Your average Joe blow filmmaker trying to get your second film greenlit or your third film greenlit. And you don't do the things that. Because the corporations don't care. The corporations follow the people who want to be spoon fed. If you don't follow that, they use that against you to justify that you don't have what it takes. And I still think that somewhere in the midst of our short attention spans and this idea that most consumers don't know any better what they're doing, somewhere in there they do know. And you just have to sift through those results and really get to the bottom and see what the criticism is. Because sometimes somewhere in the midst of all of that, there are valid criticisms. And that part of what helped me when I was doing last comic standing is that, oh well, that joke is just like so and so's joke or that that's a point, that's a lazy joke. Maybe I need to hear that. Maybe I need to be challenged a little bit more. So you would hope to get that type of critique from your colleagues and people you respect, but every now and then it's cool. Like, which is why I appreciate Reddit. Cause Reddit to me is like the most thoughtful use.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean we're grading on a tremendous curve here.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Yeah, I'm just saying if I wanted, if I'm getting criticized or having my work critiqued, Reddit comments are probably what I would put at the top tier because there's a lot of thought. It's a long, nice, it's eight, nine paragraphs. It's really, it's really laid out. Cause oh my God. Cause the show we do on cnn, it's a remake of a British show that's been on 30 years. And so the Brits was all scared that we was gonna their IP and the. Have I got news for your British page. There's a sub thread in there that's just critiquing every episode of the American version. And I was in that bitch every day when we first got on air and they were like, it's not as bad as I thought, which is a standing ovation from a British person. But yeah, I just think that we want to create these things that are heralded and lauded and revered when the truth is some people just want a street fighter joke and ain't nothing I can do about that. So you, if you don't laud what I want you to laud, I can't. I don't accept that as a loss. And I also can't get annoyed with you because you like what you like. Now it's not your fault that you like Street Fighter joke because you've been brainwashed into thinking is all you should consume and maybe you should. I like the fact that we have these weird documentaries now. Like I think that any documentary where the subject is part of the production of the documentary to some degree is inauthentic. It's like when the person is producing their own biopic. Are you gonna really tell us all the truth about when you was an but if watching a doc that has the person in the doc is the only reason a doc was made and they get you to watch a doc and you otherwise wouldn't watch docs, fine. And hopefully the next one that's actually got some teeth to it, you'll turn that one on.

[Pablo Torre]

I look forward to you as a person without a podcast. I look forward to you hosting a street Fighter podcast that subtly transitions into a multi part investigation into reparations.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

I. That's a good place to end.

[Pablo Torre]

Roy Wood Jr. Thank you for saying yes.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

Thank you to all you guys for joining us.

[Roy Wood Jr.]

Thank you all. Good to see you brother. Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

This has been Pablo Torre Finds out from Meadowlark Media we are obligated journalistically to point out that Timothy Deo somehow is Thai and I'll talk to you next time.

[Event Host / Announcer]

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