Sex, Lies, and Longevity with TV Legend Maury Povich

Summary

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Sex, Lies, and Longevity with TV Legend Maury Povich

Pablo Torre Finds Out | December 26, 2023

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, host Pablo Torre sits down with daytime television icon Maury Povich for a deep dive into his legendary career, the behind-the-scenes mechanics of his famous show, and reflections on family, fame, and the oddities of human nature. The conversation blends laughter, nostalgia, and insight as Maury candidly discusses his path from sportswriting royalty to becoming the face of genetic testing on American television, the infamous paternity reveals, and the personal philosophies that have shaped his trajectory.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Maury’s Family Legacy and Early Career ([02:04]-[07:05])

• Shirley Povich’s Influence: Maury shares the remarkable story of his father, Shirley Povich, a legendary Washington Post sportswriter and editor.
  • “My father arrived in Washington in 1922...75 plus years later, working for the Washington Post as the sports writer, sports editor. The youngest sports editor in the country at the age of 21.” — Maury Povich [03:15]
• Coming up in Media: Pablo notes Maury’s career was never destined for daytime TV, as he began in hard news, local news, and sports before a fateful call from Rupert Murdoch led him to “A Current Affair.”

2. The Golden Age of Daytime TV ([07:05]-[10:09])

• Daytime Titans: Maury paints a vivid picture of a golden era for daytime TV with contemporaries like Oprah, Phil Donahue, Sally Jesse Raphael, and Jerry Springer.
  • Notably recalls a competitive but ego-heavy green room with all the hosts not speaking to each other — “Not one of us would talk to each other. I mean, our egos were so big that we couldn't even converse with each other.” — Maury Povich [09:54]
• Relentless Competition: Drawing parallels to sports, both note the fierce rating battles and constant drive for audience share.

3. The Invention of the Paternity Show ([10:37]-[14:36])

• Maury recounts the evolution of his show:
  • Early years: Story-driven, similar to Oprah or Donahue, featuring trips to cover headlines like the Branch Davidians and country music festivals.
  • The format pivot: Producers pitch the idea of live paternity results for fast, dramatic payoff (“We think we can do it in about 12 minutes.”).
• Authenticity: Maury’s insistence on not knowing the outcomes beforehand:
  • “I said, you know, I don't want to know the result. ... My guest doesn't know. The reason why I have those signature lines of ‘you are the father, you are not the father’ is because I didn't know.” — Maury Povich [13:29]
  • He frames this as connecting authentically with the audience: “The way you connect is you're part of them. You're part of the audience. You're the extension of the audience.” [14:11]

4. Daytime TV’s Viral Moments & Cultural Ripple ([15:01]-[19:46])

• Iconic Reveal Clips: Pablo and Maury rewatch clips featuring viral reactions (backflips, dances) upon paternity news.
  • Maury jests about the diversity of reactions: “I have backflips from the rainbow coalition. Every color in the world you can imagine.” [15:53]
• Pop Culture Penetration: NFL players and more admit locker rooms paused to watch ‘Maury’ reveals. Both hosts reflect on the show’s cultural ubiquity during sick days home from school.
• Bedside Manner: Pablo applauds Maury's skillful comfort of distressed guests, dubbing him a master handholder. Maury credits the advice of Roger Ailes in showing vulnerability to connect with viewers.

5. Phobias, Interns, and Absurdity ([20:08]-[25:13])

• Phobia Segments: Maury’s shows confronting unconventional fears (aluminum foil, cotton balls) have become YouTube favorites.
  • “Once the phobia shows became popular, we used to get all these requests... what are we going to do? Put somebody on who has a phobia against snakes. I mean, we all have that, right? But cotton, aluminum, pickles, mustard... It's unreal.” [22:43]
• Production Humor: Maury and Pablo laugh about interns dressing up as “Cotton Ball Man” to help guests face their fears.

6. The Science and Surprises of Paternity ([25:13]-[29:06])

• Shocking Results: Maury recounts the rare phenomenon—twins with different fathers, which occurred twice on his show:
  • “The guy is the father of one, but not the other.” [25:13]
  • Maury expresses authentic disbelief and describes explaining the outcome to the stunned participants.

7. Criticisms, Legacy, and Deeper Meaning ([29:06]-[35:26])

• Press Scrutiny: Maury describes enduring media attacks yet justifying his show by its role in connecting fathers with children:
  • “A child has a better chance at life if they have two parents in their life instead of one... I used to bring back these families when they were adults. ... I know, it’s gratifying.” [28:19]
• Parental Approval: Both men share parallels—in their parents’ eventual acceptance of nontraditional TV careers after seeing their success.
  • “Make sure your parents know you’re okay before they go.” — Maury Povich [31:47]

8. Journalism, Longform, and Personal Pride ([35:26]-[39:13])

• Highbrow Roots: Maury reflects on pressure from his journalist peers (and wife Connie Chung) but is proud to have done his "fix" of hard news.
  • “I was always kind of ill at ease with the way news and storytelling went... when the talk show gave me the ability to be a long form storyteller, and I don’t care whether it’s tabloid or not... I felt free. I felt the bridle was off.” [35:26]
• On His Legacy: He takes pride in his renaissance-man reputation and longevity: “I’ll take it. I mean, that’s fine with me.” [36:26]
• Respect for Guests: Maury always learns name pronunciations, especially for Black guests.
  • “Everybody deserves the respect of the correct pronunciation of their name.” [37:48]
  • Cited by comic Josh Johnson as a quiet but meaningful act for the Black community.

9. Optimism About Human Nature ([38:27]-[39:04])

• Pablo asks if Maury, after years of seeing dramatic and sometimes painful human stories, remains optimistic:
  • “Yeah, I do. ... Because of the successes I’ve seen... I’ve seen people go from ‘I am not the father of that child’... to ‘I’ll be there for that child.’” — Maury Povich [38:36]

10. Regrets, Marriage to Connie Chung, and Retirement ([39:13]-[43:41])

• Maury recounts his nomadic early TV years, failures, and the stabilizing impact of marrying Connie Chung.
  • “That marriage in 1984 really changed everything for me...” [40:37]
• Pride in “Mr. Chung” moniker, stories of mistaken doormen, and reflections on his legendary wife’s in-progress memoir.
• Both Maury and Connie are content in retirement; Maury laughs about still checking the ratings on his many reruns.

11. Reflections on Mortality and How He Hopes to Be Remembered ([44:49]-[45:45])

• Maury invokes the Jewish idea of “the book of life”—living so one is worthy to be recorded therein.
  • “We don't know whether there's an afterlife... but our journey is to be written into the book of life and you have to lead your life in such a way where you can be written into the book of life.” — Maury Povich [44:49]
  • “I think I’ve done a good job at that... a lot of hiccups along the way, but I think I’ve lived my life in a way that I could be penciled in.” [45:45]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Not Knowing Results:
  “The reason why I have those signature lines of ‘you are the father’ or ‘you are not the father’ is because I didn’t know.” — Maury Povich [13:29]
• On Vulnerability:
  “Because as a talk show host, you have to be vulnerable.” — Maury Povich [19:21]
• On Guest Respect:
  “Everybody deserves the respect of the correct pronunciation of their name.” — Maury Povich [37:48]
• On Life Legacy:
  “Our journey is to be written into the book of life and you have to lead your life in such a way where you can be written into the book of life.” — Maury Povich [44:49]

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Memorable Segments (Timestamps)

• Maury’s sportswriting inheritance: [03:15]
• Daytime TV “Avengers” in the green room: [09:54]
• Pivot to paternity testing: [13:29]
• Iconic guest backflip after a “not the father” reveal: [15:32]
• Phobia of cotton balls, ‘Cotton Ball Man’ intern: [22:00]
• Twins with different fathers story: [25:13]
• Audience as family, talk show host vulnerability: [19:21]
• Reflections on legacy, book of life: [44:49]

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Tone and Style Notes

• The conversation is informal, warm, nostalgic, and frequently self-deprecating, peppered with inside media jokes and pop culture references.
• Pablo approaches Maury with childlike awe, while Maury meets him with gentle humor and surprising candor, revealing affection for his influences and humility about his fame.

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This episode is a lively journey through Maury Povich’s storied career, revealing not only the secrets behind his show's longevity and impact but also touching personal wisdom on family, resilience, and the meaning of a legacy. Longtime fans and newcomers alike will find both entertainment and insight in this candid talkumentary.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, so it's December 26th, day after Christmas. You've been surrounded by family, hopefully. Hope that was good for you. If it wasn't and you find yourself, like, wondering, am I really related to these people? Fair question. And I have an episode for you today because I sometimes get concerned that the episodes we make three times a week, relentlessly, forever, don't get consumed by everybody on the planet. Also, just in our own feed on our YouTube channel, because there's some real good sh. T, man, Every episode's kind of like my kid. To continue this theme of paternity. This one I want you to meet. I have a feeling that some people missed it, but this is a visit from the man who I would say is the face of genetic testing. Okay. Also the longest running daytime host in American television history. He is a legend, an icon. None of these things are exaggerations. He also made me as happy as I've been in the year 2023 because of this episode. So without further ado, welcome to the stage, Mr. Maury Povich. Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're going to find out what this sound is.

[Maury Povich]

You want to own up and tell everybody what you are deathly afraid of?

[Pablo Torre]

Aluminum foil.

[Maury Povich]

Is it the noise?

[Pablo Torre]

It's the look.

[Maury Povich]

The look and the noises and the noise.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Right after this ad. You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network. Maury Povich, it's, it's a thrill. It's just a thrill to hear you laugh. Well, across this table from me.

[Maury Povich]

Well, it's nice to be with you. I've watched you a lot.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, well, I believe that I, I, I win that competition. Who has seen more of the other? Well, and it's not close.

[Maury Povich]

Yeah, well, you, you, when you appear with that miscreant Kornheiser, I tune in. Well, Kornheiser says the only reason I have Pablo on is he's smarter than I am. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

He said he likes to, he likes to self dep in a way that is always so flattering to me and makes me suspicious. It's a little too kind, that, man, when it comes to this stuff. There are many reasons why I am legitimately, like, sort of deliriously happy that you're here. One of them is that it's like I climbed into my television. There are only a few people who made you feel that way. You are one of them. But the second reason is that you have the blood of truly like, sports writing, sports writing greatness inside of you. So for People who don't understand your lineage, explain who your father is.

[Maury Povich]

Okay, so my father's name, Shirley Povich. He was a kid in Bar Harbor, Maine, growing up as a townie kid that didn't come from a wealthy family or any. But the. The millionaires who summered in Bar Harbor, Maine, the Rockefellers, the Vanderbilts, the Morgans, all these people built their own golf course called Kibo Valley. And my father was a caddy at the course. And he was thrown together one time with, when he was about 15 years old. And he caddied so well for this man that this man said, my carriage, because there weren't even any. There weren't any cars on Mount Desert island at the time. And so he picked my father up in his carriage every day in the summer for three straight years, went to my grandmother and said, I want to take your son with me. I own my own golf course in Washington, D.C. and he'll be my caddy. And I also own a newspaper called the Washington Post, and I will give him a job. And my father arrived in Washington in 1922. My father died in 1998, 75 plus years later, working for the Washington Post as the sports writer, sports editor. The youngest sports editor in the country at the age of 21.

[Pablo Torre]

One of the greatest columnists as well, of all time.

[Maury Povich]

Right?

[Pablo Torre]

Shirley Povich is, I mean, the name in the world that me and the aforementioned miscreant Tony Kornheiser inhabit. This is. We are dealing with royalty. I just want to make clear, too, that the reason I had your phone number in the first place is because of Kornheiser.

[Maury Povich]

Right?

[Pablo Torre]

And you guys, he gave it out, huh? I should not have betrayed him in this way. But I. In the sake of. For the sake of journalistic transparency, I make clear that you guys, you and Tony are actually, you know each other because of this way forever.

[Maury Povich]

I mean, my father was very instrumental in hiring not only Tony, but Michael Wilbon. You know, it's very interesting when Tony was first hired, Tony, as everyone knows, has a great sense of humor and he used to write humorously a lot. And my father went to George Solomon and then sports editor of the Post and said, I don't know if this is gonna work out. I don't know if he's that funny. And then he came back about a year later and said to Solomon, you know, I have to admit I was wrong. He's terrific. And so from then on, they have been best buds.

[Pablo Torre]

He has. Tony has that way of winning you over, despite maybe Your skepticisms. And I, of course, say this in the context of knowing that you and Tony. We're also business partners.

[Maury Povich]

Yeah, well, that's another reason why I'm a little leery of him. He, you know, I. I have invested in some, you know, glorious businesses, like the clothing business. Never worked out. I invest. I started a newspaper in the middle of when newspapers were going down in the great state of Montana, which I still have. Not a great idea. And then Kornheiser tries to convince me to invest in his goddamn restaurant in Washington.

[Pablo Torre]

Chatter.

[Maury Povich]

Yeah, chatter. And that was another failing adventure of mine.

[Pablo Torre]

But all of that stands in contrast to a remarkable bit of longevity, which is that. And you own this title, and this is an incredible title. You were the longest running daytime host in television history, right?

[Maury Povich]

Yeah. I never expected it.

[Pablo Torre]

You never expected it?

[Maury Povich]

No, no. I mean, first of all, I always thought when I was growing up in this business doing news, sports, talk shows, that if I. This is what I said to myself. If I could make $50,000 a year, the rest of my career, I would be so excited and so happy. And secondly, if I could still stay in this business at the age of 50, I would consider that a victory. I think I set the bar too low.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, I would have taken the over on that one. Okay, so you should know that there is an alternate universe, a miserable alternate universe, where Maury Povich is not this Maury povich, now age 84, because for the first 25 years or so of Maury's professional life, he worked in local news, he did some sports, he did a lot of hard news, he hosted a talk show, he anchored the evening news. He mostly hopped from job to job to job all across the country. But then this insane Australian guy named Rupert Murdoch summoned Maury to New York to host a new tabloid style news show called A Current Affair. And this was 1986. And a current Affair went on to take so many viewers from its direct competitor, Entertainment Tonight, that the company that owned Entertainment Tonight went out and hired Maury to launch his own daytime talk show, the Maury Povich show, which was just one entrant among many in the super crowded field of daytime TV in 1991. So what you're saying is that your entry into daytime television, which again, when I was growing up, I was born 85, right. 80s and 90s daytime television, huge. Not just an economic machine, but a golden age, an institution that shaped American life.

[Maury Povich]

There were at least 10 of us on the air. And when I say that, I mean there was Phil Donahue, and there was Oprah and there was Geraldo Rivera, and there was me, and there was Sally Jesse Raphael and Joan Rivers and Jenny Jones and Montel Williams. I mean, I could go Jerry Springer. Jerry Springer. And so it was so funny one time because for their 25th anniversary, NBC gave Phil Donahue a primetime show, and he asked all of his competitors to be in a skit on the show. And we all showed up at the green room. All of us, all eight or nine of us.

[Pablo Torre]

The Avengers of daytime television. We were all in the green room.

[Maury Povich]

Talk show hosts in the green room. Not one of us would talk to each other. I mean, our egos were so big that we couldn't even converse with each other.

[Pablo Torre]

But it was like that, though.

[Maury Povich]

It was.

[Pablo Torre]

It was dog eat dog. Right, right. That reminds me a bit of just the competitiveness of sports.

[Maury Povich]

Same thing.

[Pablo Torre]

Keeping track of what the other person's stat line might be.

[Maury Povich]

Exactly. Or clickbait now.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The metrics, the numbers were. The race to be great. The greatest. I'm genuinely curious. This is a show about finding out stuff. And I say that now and smile because your show, of course, is the ultimate show about finding out stuff.

[Maury Povich]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Maury Povich Finds out is a good alternate title for your shows. But how good is your memory of your show over decades upon decades upon decades upon decades?

[Maury Povich]

Well, I mean, it's difficult because there are two great themes for the last 24 years, and it was, of course, paternity tests and lie detector tests. So those things kind of merge. Uh. Oh, my golly. I'm getting silly phone calls.

[Pablo Torre]

No, it's not good.

[Maury Povich]

And not only that, it was spam.

[Pablo Torre]

How's that? I was hoping for Connie Chuck.

[Maury Povich]

No. Oh, God almighty. Let me get this off. Happen.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all good.

[Maury Povich]

I'll call her, though, if you want me to.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, we might need to.

[Maury Povich]

She's not writing her memoirs.

[Pablo Torre]

I was gonna say she's not writing her memoirs. Allow me to be millionth Asian American young person to just use you as a way to getting to your.

[Maury Povich]

Do you know when Connie saw Yuan. Pardon the interruption. She immediately looked you up to find out your heritage.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh. More. This is. Ugh. Ugh. That's. That's. That is.

[Maury Povich]

I'm serious.

[Pablo Torre]

Put it on. Put it on the epitaph stuff. Just like Connie Chung wanted to know, where is this kid from? Is all. I. I mean, now. Now we're in the gravy phase of the proceedings today. That. That makes my Makes a month a year for me.

[Maury Povich]

So what happened was when I. The first seven years, when I worked at Paramount for the show, it was like. I mean, it was like Oprah and Donahue. It was just. For instance, we went to Waco, Texas, for the Branch Davidians. We would go to Nashville to do a Country Music Week. We would. I mean, it's the same kind of motif that the Today show had or Oprah had or Phil had. And then after seven years, I left, became a free agent, and then I went to NBC Universal for the last 24 years. And the first couple of years were the same thing. And then my producers came to me and said, we have this idea. Okay, what's the idea? We want to do paternity tests. You know, we see on the soap operas all these themes about who's the father of these children. And it takes about six months to play out the theme on soap operas. We think we can do it in about 12 minutes. And I went, oh, boy, this is going to be good. And, you know, obviously, just the way, particularly daytime television is, or tabloid, you just want to push the envelope as far as you can.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. Again, you're in competition, right?

[Maury Povich]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Pablo Torre]

So.

[Maury Povich]

We come down to the first show, and I think this was a crucial moment for everything. And I'm getting debriefed about the story. And I've read up on the story and read up on the characters involved. And the producer says, and so, Mari, the result. I said, you know, I don't want to know the result. I don't want to know the result of a paternity test. I don't know the. Want to know the result of a lie detector. I don't want to know. I don't want to know anything. My guest doesn't know the reason why I have those signature lines of, you are the father, you are not the father is because I didn't know.

[Pablo Torre]

You are authentically finding out exactly that very moment with us, the audience.

[Maury Povich]

Because to me, the only way in daytime talk you have, you have to connect. The way you connect is you're part of them. You're part of the audience. You're the extension of the audience. You. And the way I questioned was the same questions the audience would ask if they had a chance.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Maury Povich]

And so that's the way it went down.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, you were an avatar for our curiosity.

[Maury Povich]

Right?

[Pablo Torre]

You were. And I just want to. There are so many. I'm sure you get this all of the time now, just people being like, you remember that time, right? That I. I am going to do a self indulgent thing.

[Maury Povich]

Right.

[Pablo Torre]

I want to watch a couple of things from your show with you. Can we do that?

[Maury Povich]

Sure.

[Pablo Torre]

I. I'm curious, Maury, if you remember.

[Maury Povich]

This one, what happens if this is your child?

[Pablo Torre]

Then I'll step up and take care of her.

[Maury Povich]

You will?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, I will.

[Maury Povich]

For free? Yes, absolutely. You won't charge?

[Pablo Torre]

Nope.

[Maury Povich]

You won't be charging if it's yours?

[Pablo Torre]

No.

[Maury Povich]

Okay, well, let's find out then. All right, I'll find out right now. Oh, boy. When it comes to one year old Ashlyn, Jeremy, you are not the.

[Pablo Torre]

So for people who aren't watching along on YouTube or the DraftKings network, that dude just backflipped Maury.

[Maury Povich]

Yeah, and a white dude too.

[Pablo Torre]

A white dude back flipping with incredible alacrity. But you remember that backflip that's not lost. I mean, absolutely. You're not numb to the back.

[Maury Povich]

You don't think it was the only backflip I ever saw.

[Pablo Torre]

Wait, there are more? Of course. Are you kidding?

[Maury Povich]

I have backflips from the rainbow coalition. Every color in the world you can imagine. Let me pause you for a second there. I can tell you. I can't tell you the number of NFL players who have said to me, we're in the locker room before, before the, before practice and the coaches are asking us to come out and we're not coming out until we find out who the father is. And I'm telling you from. This is from stars.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, I believe this. Oh, no, because I was that way when I was like, you know, sick at home from school.

[Maury Povich]

Sure. And were you really sick?

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, sometimes, sometimes you had to, you had to stay home to. You had to gin it up. Because you might see this when it.

[Maury Povich]

Comes to 4 month old Danye Andrew, you are not the. Sabrina, we'll help you find your father if you want. Be glad to help you.

[Pablo Torre]

You know that gentleman you have, I mean, he's like maybe the most iconic of all. Yes. Would he, would you rank him number one in terms of just the most that's viral? Most.

[Maury Povich]

He. Yeah. I mean there were very. There were several different clips that millions on YouTube are still today. Oh yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. I mean it's that guy dancing and essentially just becoming the host of your show as you go to console the would be mother of his child who was not. Is an incredible contrast in just like untrammeled delirium. Utter delight. And you, you have the bedside manner. I mean, that's the thing in These clips that people need to apprec. You were maybe the best handholder. And I mean that figurative and literal when it came to just people on your show.

[Maury Povich]

I think that's one of the reasons for the success was that the connection you make with the audience and the connection is that they thought of me as part of their family. And I don't think a host can ask for anything more than that. I mean, you know, it's very interesting. When I first started, I had some negatives on the Q ratings and things like that. So Paramount hired a guy I had known years and years before named Roger Ailes, who, at that time. This is before Fox News, was a research consultant. And so Roger gets to me and says, we have to show you as a vulnerable person. We have to show you as one of those people who the audience would welcome into their homes. And the early promotional announcements for me was I had. I went on and said, it's a classic Oprah showing vulnerability. I've been fired. I'm divorced, I've messed. I've worked a lot of places. Some management like me, some people didn't like me. And so I had to show all of this vulnerability.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Maury Povich]

Because as a talk show host, you have to be vulnerable.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. You need to show that you also can hurt.

[Maury Povich]

Right. Yeah. That whatever sympathies, whatever emotions you display are real.

[Pablo Torre]

What you're saying, though, in this sort of, like, familial metaphor here of, like, you're part of the audience, they welcome you in as if. As if you, Maury, were the father all along.

[Maury Povich]

Yeah. Well, I think a lot of people, the reason they come on the show is because they've always, always felt that I. That they could unburden themselves in my presence.

[Pablo Torre]

Absolutely.

[Maury Povich]

Rather than doing it at home, in a rather difficult atmosphere at home. And they could feel safe. I mean, can you imagine that?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, that's what I cannot imagine, but now I'm beginning to make sense of is the idea that in that coliseum.

[Maury Povich]

Right.

[Pablo Torre]

In Connecticut. Right in that studio in Connecticut, what felt insanely hostile from afar to them.

[Maury Povich]

Which, by the way, the audience, the live audience talk about, you know, the Romans and the Christians here.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. Win the crowd. Win your freedom. That daunting aspect of, like, the arena.

[Maury Povich]

Right.

[Pablo Torre]

Because of you, they felt it was a safe space.

[Maury Povich]

Exactly.

[Pablo Torre]

Which is incredibly funny because my favorite genre subgenre of your show, as much as I love the paternity stuff and the lie detectors, it was the phobias.

[Maury Povich]

Oh, my God. Do you know, still today, they garner the largest population on YouTube.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, I, I, I am in that population. I mean, I want to play for you. My, my, my favorite one. One of my favorites. And it's. And it's this one.

[Maury Povich]

You want to own up and tell everybody what you are deathly afraid of?

[Pablo Torre]

Aluminum foil.

[Maury Povich]

Oh, boy. I can't wait. Noise.

[Pablo Torre]

It's the look. The look and the noise.

[Maury Povich]

Oh, gosh. And the noise.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Maury Povich]

Peggy, I'm telling you, by the.

[Pablo Torre]

No.

[Maury Povich]

Get away from me. You better get away from me.

[Pablo Torre]

You better get away from me.

[Maury Povich]

I'm going to hit her.

[Pablo Torre]

I want to hit away from.

[Maury Povich]

Oh, boy. I mean, luminous. Yeah. And at times, we unfortunately would take the poor intern.

[Pablo Torre]

I was gonna say. Who did you task with?

[Maury Povich]

The interns had to bring out the barrel of pickles. Or at one time, there was a woman who was scared of cotton balls.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, Maury. Oh, I have good news for you.

[Maury Povich]

This intern is an all American. She's afraid of cotton.

[Pablo Torre]

Cotton absolutely makes me 100% terrified the way it feels. And what happens when I think about it. It gets to the point where I feel like I'm having a panic attack.

[Maury Povich]

Okay, you know, you've got to confront your phobia now. This is the famous Maury show. Cotton Ball Man.

[Pablo Torre]

I think that's the greatest thing in television history.

[Maury Povich]

That poor intern.

[Pablo Torre]

So take me, take me behind the scenes as to how the cotton man came to be.

[Maury Povich]

Well, you know, once the phobia shows became popular, we used to get all these requests and we would take. I mean, what are we going to do? Put somebody on who has a phobia against snakes. I mean, we all have that, right? But cotton, aluminum pickles, mustard. Mustard. I mean, it's unreal. And so the poor intern you visually.

[Pablo Torre]

Describe for people, again, who are just listening to us giggle over again, the greatest moment in television history. Explain what happened there. What did we see?

[Maury Povich]

What we did on the phobia shows. Whoever had a phobia in order to overcome it, according to our expert, who in the back works on them for a couple of hours, and then we come back and show how they've overcome this. In order to overcome this, you have to confront it. And I mean, I got a little squeamish because, I mean, I hate to see these people, you know, and they're. And they're just catatonic. I mean, they're just.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, you become vicariously afraid because they are running. They're always. Maury, they're always running backstage.

[Maury Povich]

They run backstage.

[Pablo Torre]

Always.

[Maury Povich]

The audience. They run everywhere. And by the way, at times we run after them.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, yeah. Oftentimes you get, you get the, get the camera, the shaky handheld following them around the back maze of your studio. And so in this clip, it was something I'd never seen before, but I never forgot it.

[Maury Povich]

A person full of cotton balls coming out like, you know, like, like one of those old time class C horror movies.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. A Creature from the Black Lagoon. If the lagoon was just cotton balls.

[Maury Povich]

Exactly. And so it, I mean, it.

[Pablo Torre]

That was an intern.

[Maury Povich]

As an intern, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

I wonder what job that guy got. What part of the, of all of the things we've watched and beyond, what part surprised you the most? How often were you genuinely like? Because you, I imagine you see enough things.

[Maury Povich]

There were, there was. It happened twice on the show and I was at a loss. And a woman comes on and accuses a fellow of being the father of her twins and. Okay. And so since I've told you before, I don't know the result, I open up the envelope and the guy is the father of one, but not the other. In the case of two year old Nikolai, Eric, you are not the father. You gotta be the dad. In the case of two year old Darian, Eric, you are the father.

[Pablo Torre]

One out of two ain't bang.

[Maury Povich]

One out of two ain't bang. Have never had that on my show. And the first time it happened, I'm looking around my step. Yeah, yeah. And how does that happen? Fraternal twins, lady. Could be quite active over a small period of time.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Maury Povich]

You know, separate eggs.

[Pablo Torre]

This is a thing that happens.

[Maury Povich]

Happened million to one shot according to scientists. It came on twice on my show. Twice. And, and the, and the woman was disbelieving. I said, look, I was disbelieving until 30 seconds ago. But I know that our, that our, our, our DNA testing is correct. And so therefore you're looking for another father. Right.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh my God. I didn't. That is a, that. This is a show full of revelations.

[Maury Povich]

Well, I thought you would know that coming from the family you come from.

[Pablo Torre]

I know my parents are doctors. Maury, of course, has seen enough PTI to know that I get made fun of for not knowing any, anything about science or medicine. And so. No, Maury, I did not know that a woman could two different dudes and have them both be the father of their children.

[Maury Povich]

Your father's a urologist, is that correct?

[Pablo Torre]

That's right.

[Maury Povich]

And your mother's a what? Dermatologist.

[Pablo Torre]

How do you know this?

[Maury Povich]

Well, I do my research.

[Pablo Torre]

I feel Like I'm about to watch you take an envelope out and inside of it is going to be a card that says, you are the disappointment to your parents.

[Maury Povich]

And by the way, I always thought these women were very brave and very courageous because they would come time after time and first it was three and then four different guys, and then six and then eight and nine, maybe even 10. Yeah. And they would be ridiculed by the audience.

[Pablo Torre]

But also they knew what they were in for.

[Maury Povich]

Yeah, they.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, it's not like.

[Maury Povich]

And they didn't care. They just wanted to have their child, you know, and that's why I've always justified that theme because I mean, Lord knows I've had plenty of criticism over the years, of course, not only from media critics, but. But a lot of people.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah. Who are saying this is destructive to the American ideal.

[Maury Povich]

And I'm saying, look, I know this. A child has a better chance at life if they have two parents in their life instead of one. I just know that. I know that. So if I can get a significant amount of men who are proved to be the fathers of these kids into these kids lives, and fortunately the show lasted so long, I used to bring back these families when they were adults.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right.

[Maury Povich]

And so I would see this father not only got into the life of that child, but they had other children. The child in question ends up in college, is off on her, on her or his own. And it's. I know, it's gratifying.

[Pablo Torre]

The idea, the idea. I mean, first off, like if you have ever seen a second of your show, you know what you're in for, what you're signing up for, you're consenting to this in all of the ways. So to me, I am unscandalized by that dynamic, but I am fascinated as to. Again, let's bring it full circle here with the parental through line of our conversation. What did your dad think of what you were doing?

[Maury Povich]

Well, it was very interesting. There's a Pulitzer Prize winning television critic named Tom Shales, of course, the Washington Post at the Washington Post. And Shales writes this scathing article about me, uses every S word there is. Smarmy, sordid, salacious, salacious, every S word in the world. So I called up my father and I said, dad, don't read Tom Shales today. You really don't really want to read Tom Shales. And please do not, not show mom the article. No, don't worry about it, son. Just go about your business. And that was his attitude. Just go about your business. You do fine. He says, I'll tell you this, son. I had a role in hiring Tom Shales here, and good writers are hard to find.

[Pablo Torre]

Did he ever pull you aside, tug you at your sleeve and say, look, the paternity stuff, the phobia stuff, the interned rest in cotton.

[Maury Povich]

He never did. He really didn't. He always worried about me. And it wasn't. He worried about me because for a long time I didn't have much money, and whatever money I had was gone. And he says, you know, it really bothers me that that money just burns a hole in your pocket. You never have any money. And so when I got to be successful and the money started coming in. Yes. And now he's in his 90s, and he always went back to his boyhood home in Maine every summer. And so I sent a plane for him and my mother to Washington to pick us up in New York and go on to Maine. And I walked in the plane, and there is all his newspapers spread out on a table like this. And he says, I'm not going to worry about you anymore. I will say this to everyone. You know, make sure your parents know you're okay before they go.

[Pablo Torre]

That was a huge part. No, Maury, that was a huge part. I'm just seeing very eerie, you know, small parallels in my life because, of course, when my parents saw me on espn, they were like, okay, this. This whole thing where you decided not to go to law school, even though you took the LSAT twice, where we sent you, we paid out of our noses, came to America to pay out of our noses, sent you to Harvard, like we're okay, because it seems like this is. You have something going here, right? And that mattered.

[Maury Povich]

And I'm gonna tell you something. All these years later, it's been 25 years since my father died. I was so happy to be able to show that to him before, while he was alive. And I just say that to everybody, if you can, please make sure they know you're okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

We mentioned, of course, your better half. Connie Chung.

[Maury Povich]

Yes, before.

[Pablo Torre]

And it's just remarkable how surrounded you are, how infused your life is with objective journalism, like capital, the most capital J journalism. Connie Chung embodies that, truly embodies that.

[Maury Povich]

That. This is the CBS Evening News with Dan Rather and Connie Chung. Good evening. Nine days after the explosion in Oklahoma City, the danger there is far from over.

[Pablo Torre]

She pointed out in some interview that, you know, Maury Povich reads books. He, like, he knows stuff about history and. And war and, and polit. All, all of this stuff. Has she ever tried to nudge you towards, hey, I know you as the brilliant son of a brilliant man who traffics in the highbrow.

[Maury Povich]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And yet you're doing this stuff, right?

[Maury Povich]

And I, and I say to her all the time and she appreciates it. I said, look, as long as, you know, I'm fine. And that's it. I mean, I don't, I mean, it's kind of my secret. I mean, people, most people don't know my past. I mean, I did newsy talk shows and I reported on the air. And I was there, yes, I was there at John Kennedy's assassination, looking at Jackie Kennedy coming off that plane in that bloodied suit. And I covered the Martin Luther King's march on Washington, and I covered the riots in Washington after the death of Martin Luther King, and I covered all of Watergate. And you know, I had my fix. I was always, I was always, I was always kind of ill at ease with the way news and storytelling went because there was never enough time when you were covering news. It was always a minute 30 if you were anchoring, it was always a 30 second intro. There was always all these constraints. And so when the talk show gave me the ability to be a long form storyteller, and I don't care whether it's tabloid or not, but it's a long form storytelling position, and I felt free. I felt the bridle was off. And it's the way I've kind of looked at it ever since.

[Pablo Torre]

What are you most proud of when you take the sweep of all of this? Right. You've traced an arc that's again, without exaggeration, singular in the history of media.

[Maury Povich]

Right.

[Pablo Torre]

What are you proudest of when you look back now?

[Maury Povich]

Two things. The one thing that Shales said to me years, I mean, wrote years before he excoriated me on A Current Affair and he liked my talk show. And he said, you're a renaissance man. You know, you got a little knowledge about a lot of things. And I think that, plus the longevity, I'll take it. I mean, that's fine with me. And there are some funny things. I just saw something on Instagram that was so funny but true. Black comic named Josh Johnson is doing his standup and he's got in a club and he says, you know, I think the black community owes a lot to Maury Povich.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't think Maury gets enough credit. I really don't. Maury is such an ally to the Black community. He really is. In all the years he's been on the show, Maury has never up a black name.

[Maury Povich]

Maury would say Don Tavious, full chested. And I'm going, I wouldn't name my baby Don Tavious. And then I saw the most amazing thing when I saw the name of the baby underneath the picture and there was a tube.

[Pablo Torre]

They'll put the baby on the screen and I'll see the screen below the name and I'll be like, is that a 2 in that n S name? And then Maury, without even missing a beat. Well, like when it comes to the case of six month old Tuane, I'm like, wow.

[Maury Povich]

When it comes to baby Tuane, I, I could, I just couldn't, I couldn't take it. In my talk show, every single, every single name on my talk show, I say to the producers, how does, how do they pronounce? Well, I don't know. Well, I'm gonna go, where is that person for the show? I'm gonna go find out. And I did that for 30 years.

[Pablo Torre]

I had never thought about that ingredient and why it's so good.

[Maury Povich]

Everybody deserves the respect of the correct pronunciation of their name. Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And it also provides that ballast of we, on some level, despite the absurdity of the proceedings you're about to undergo, we're gonna take you seriously in a way.

[Maury Povich]

Exactly.

[Pablo Torre]

That is fundamental to who you are.

[Maury Povich]

If I can pronounce your name, you know that you can be sure that you have a space here.

[Pablo Torre]

Do you consider yourself. I'm not thinking about this in the context again of the episodes you did. Do you consider yourself an optimist about human nature?

[Maury Povich]

Yeah, I do. I mean, I do.

[Pablo Torre]

I think you've seen it all and you emerge an optimist.

[Maury Povich]

Yeah. Because of the successes I've seen. I've seen people go from I am not the father of that child and that, and that woman would never ever to I'll be there, I'll be there for that child. And, and some are absolutely, obviously never going to be there.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, no, Backflip guy's gone.

[Maury Povich]

Yeah, I mean, but yeah, he's backflipping still today. Exactly.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Maury Povich]

But there are others who really take it seriously.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you, Maury, have regrets? Do you have a regret whether it's in the realm of work or life or the intersection between them? Are you a guy who has that thought?

[Maury Povich]

No. There was a time in my life when I left Washington because I wanted to find out. I wanted to be the Next, Walter Cronkite. And so, in a seven year period between 1977 and 1983, I worked in Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Philadelphia, and then back to Washington, five cities in seven years. Management didn't like me in some. I got fired one time, I didn't like management in another, I got thrown around here. I did that. I mean, this. In fact, there was a great New York Times columnist who wrote for Esquire named Richard Reeves. And he was a friend of mine, and he wrote his entire Esquire column in the back page of Esquire. And it said, my friend, the anchorman, Maury Povich. I have seen him anchor the news on four successive St. Patty's Day in four different cities. The man is trying to go nationwide, city by city.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. In NBA parlance, you're a journeyman. There's an alternate life in which you are a nomad.

[Maury Povich]

Absolutely. And so, I mean, but I mean, look, I. I can almost tell you that the reason why my life settled down and then became in the ascent in 1984 is because this woman who I had dated for seven and a half years finally agreed to marry me. And that marriage in 1984 really changed everything for me. And by the way, not because I thought I was gonna be anything, because at the time I wasn't. In fact, we had a marriage for the first two years. She lived in New York, working then at NBC. I was in Washington doing local news. And we would commute and I would come up and there was a doorman at her apartment and he would say, and who are you here to see? I said, my name is Maury Povich. I'm here to see my wife, Connie Chung. And he would call up and say, Mr. Chung is downstairs.

[Pablo Torre]

One of.

[Maury Povich]

Yeah, so I have Mr. Chung. I have, I have gladly, absolutely, been known as Mr. Chung for the rest of my life. That would be fine with me. How it ever came about that I was decoupled into being Maury Povich is beyond me.

[Pablo Torre]

Unconsciously uncoupled, as it were. Yes. Wait, so what's, what are Mr. And Mrs. Chung like in retirement?

[Maury Povich]

Well, it's, it's interesting. I. I am sitting on the sidelines watching my wife complete about a three or four year effort to write her memoirs. And this is some task, and it's going to be a very, very big book because many publishers wanted to publish it, no doubt. And she has just turned in her first draft. It's probably going to be out a year from now.

[Pablo Torre]

And.

[Maury Povich]

Wow, there are a Lot of personages who should be taking notice of this in the news.

[Pablo Torre]

They might find out some stuff. Yeah.

[Maury Povich]

Because I don't know if there's going to be a filter or not.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, I hope there isn't.

[Maury Povich]

So, anyway, I think she would agree that she is so happy not to be in the business these days.

[Pablo Torre]

And you feel the same way.

[Maury Povich]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, you were in the business for as long as literally time.

[Maury Povich]

I mean, humanly, everybody says. Everybody says my show is canceled. My. I tried to leave my show four years before it ended, and then I tried to leave it two years before it ended, and. And NBC just came. No, no, Mario, it's still going on.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, I've seen the. The YouTube traffic.

[Maury Povich]

Right.

[Pablo Torre]

Is unrelenting.

[Maury Povich]

And my repeats, 3500 of them, I mean, are on the same stations. And I look at. Believe it or not, I'm still a creature of the goddamn business. I'm still looking at the ratings, and they.

[Pablo Torre]

How is the ghost of Maury Povich rating these days?

[Maury Povich]

They're really good. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. I bet kids will be playing hooky from school decades, decades into the future.

[Maury Povich]

Can you imagine that? I'm still looking at the ratings.

[Pablo Torre]

I love that. 84 years old, you're still trying to box out Sally Jesse Raphael.

[Maury Povich]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And not even though he's gone. Jerry's in repeat still, and I'm looking at his ratings versus my ratings. We are such TV creatures. Ridiculous.

[Pablo Torre]

I love that. I love that you've described a number of. And I know you love golf and you play golf, and Kornheiser can't stop talking about how good a golfer you are.

[Maury Povich]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

So there's that. I mean, we should just say that for the rest of the.

[Maury Povich]

Well, all I can say is Kornheiser is better than Wilbon, I think.

[Pablo Torre]

But indulge the existentialism here at the end, though, because I'm honored that you sat down and walked me through an unparalleled life and career. How do you want people, the kids, generations from now, to remember what you did here on this planet?

[Maury Povich]

I mean, you know, I've never really thought about that. I mean, you know, I grew up in the Jewish religion, and they had one thing in the Jewish religion that I really. That I really find that I can admire, and that is, we don't know whether there's an afterlife or not in the Jewish religion. There might be, there might not be, we don't know, but our journey is to be written into the book of life and you have to lead your life in such a way where you can be written into the book of life. And so therefore, I mean, that's how I look upon myself. I mean, and I think I've done a good job at that. I mean, there were a lot of hiccups along the way, but I think I've lived my life in a way that. That I could be penciled in.

[Pablo Torre]

Maury Povich, this was a genuine, genuine honor. Thank you so much.

[Maury Povich]

It's my pleasure, Pablo. I mean, I've watched you for a long time, and I know of your background, and just make sure that everything is okay with Lerd, because he asked me on the show before you did, and I rejected him.

[Pablo Torre]

You know, a journalist never stops going after the scoop.

[Maury Povich]

Exactly. You can tell them that I scooped you. I scooped you. That's right, Dan. Yeah, try that one on.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, exactly. Wear that one, you sweaty bastard. So today is just going to be one of those episodes that'll always have a special place in my heart. And I don't know if you watched as much Maury as I did in the 90s. I don't know if you thought that it was a stain upon American morality, as certainly some critics out there have said over the years. I get it. And for what it's worth, Mori himself does not even necessarily count on there being an afterlife, as I found out today. But what I personally like to imagine is our creator standing there in front of whatever heaven that might exist, let's call it a metaphysical television studio, with an envelope in his hand. And no, Maury Povich does not know the result ahead of time. He never does, as he said. But inside this envelope, as the tension is rising, I strongly suspect, is the good news that Maury Povich has been waiting for. This has been PABLO TORRE FINDS OUT A MEADOWLARK MEDIA PRODUCTION and I'll talk to you next time.

[Maury Povich]

It.