Share & Atone & Tell with Nick Wright and Kevin Wildes

Summary

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Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: Share & Atone & Tell with Nick Wright and Kevin Wildes

Release date: January 10, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Guests: Nick Wright, Kevin Wildes

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Episode Overview

This episode launches Pablo's new year with an unruly deep dive into the competitive, anxious, and occasionally absurd inner world of sports media “takes.” Pablo is joined in-studio by Nick Wright and Kevin Wildes—his frenemies from FS1’s First Things First. The group explores what it means to be “smart” in sports media, the addictive rivalries and ego management behind punditry, the fine line between confidence and delusion, and the emotional language of rankings and hot takes. They also invent a collective ritual of “take atonement,” debate the best kind of fame, and reflect on the psychological impacts of public relevance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hair, Rankings, and Insecure Compliments

• The episode opens on a light, self-deprecating note about everyone’s hair and quickly moves into the idea that life—and especially sports media—revolves around rankings.
• Nick Wright: “These people that think they’re too goddamn good to like…for lists and rankings and whatever, that’s what life is. I’m not into people that think they’re too good for what everyone enjoys.” ([01:40])

2. Origins of the Pablo-Nick Rivalry

• Pablo revisits a moment at Kevin Wildes’ holiday party in 2023 where Nick called him “the second smartest person in sports media.”
• Pablo: “[You said] I think you’re the second smartest person in sports media.” ([03:58])
• Nick: “Do I think I am the smartest guy in sports media? Obviously, I think that… if they think there’s someone smarter than them, I would lose respect for them.” ([04:24])

3. Declaring Rivals: The Secret Motivation

• Nick reveals his motivation is outpacing everyone in sports media near his age and creating a running “rivals list.”
• Nick: “Everyone in the media that is within two years of me or younger than me, I must vanquish…right now, rising to the top of the rivals list is Pablo Torre, and he will be vanquished.” ([07:15])

4. Take Atonement: Public Owning of Bad Predictions

• Pablo tries to get the trio to atone for their worst sports takes. Nick resists, joking that it’s “Herculean” to recall so many failed takes, but admits to a few.

• Nick’s atonements:

  • Predicted the Bears (with Caleb Williams) would reach the Super Bowl ([11:06])
  • Picked the Lakers over the Nuggets in last year’s playoffs ([13:11])
  • Misjudged Saquon Barkley’s impact with the Eagles
  • Predicted Derrick Henry would make a difference for the Ravens

• Nick: “The thing about sports predictions is…they’re predictions. As try as I might, can’t flawlessly tell the future.” ([12:06])

• Wildes' “never give up” take:

  • Refuses to fully abandon any favorite quarterback, citing Sam Darnold’s redemption as precedent ([17:41])
  • “I'm never giving up on anybody until they retire…maybe USFL, he can come back with the point.”

• Pablo’s atonement:

  • Forced to give up hope on Ben Simmons after years of support.
  • Pablo: “Ben Simmons is my answer. My take on Ben Simmons was always…like a flying car that doesn’t have brakes.” ([19:31])

5. Language & Craft: Magic Words of Debate

• The group digresses into the loaded vocabulary of sports talk: words that drive heated but entertaining arguments.
  • Wildes’ favorite: “Deserve” – “Does Lamar deserve to be a 10-point favorite?” ([23:25])
  • Pablo adds: Words like “disrespected” and “scary” are irresistible for creating takes.
  • Nick: “Wilds wants more emotion and less analytical responses. Typically that creates the best show.” ([25:21])
• Messiness of debate is celebrated—the ambiguity of words like “valuable” or “greatest” ensures “eternal debates” (e.g., MJ vs. LeBron never ends).

6. Drafting the Best Kind of Fame

• Pablo poses: “Whose fame do you want? The whole world is available. Draft pick.” ([27:22])

  • Pablo’s pick: Mike Trout – highly respected, known by true fans, but largely anonymous to the general public ([28:43])
  • Wildes’ pick: “Sully” Sullenberger – heroic, revered, but not constantly recognized ([29:38])
  • Nick’s evolving pick: Initially dishonest about wanting more fame, then honestly describes craving incremental recognition, then settles on “Daniel Day-Lewis”: wildly famous when he chooses but otherwise anonymous. ([35:25])

• Discussion: The group explores the psychological impacts of fame, agreeing that constant recognition would be exhausting, but moments of acknowledgement—“a great endorphin boost”—are addictive.

7. Confessions: On Fame, Ego, and Growing Up Publicly

• Nick: “My entire adult life, I’ve had tiny, slightly increasing fame…it’s never been weird for me because it’s like watching your kid get taller.” ([34:00])

• Pablo: “Nick and I have been clawing...digging my fingernails into a tree trunk of celebrity.” ([35:20])

• Wildes: Prefers anonymity; thinks his cohosts are “nuts” for seeking validation.

• Nick: “...most people feel they need it [fame]. I’m not saying it’s healthy, but...once you have an element of it, I think most people feel they need it.” ([42:54])

8. Closing Round: What Did We Find Out?

• Pablo: “Nick Wright drafting Daniel Day-Lewis is the perfect answer for a guy who I can’t tell is acting or not. I think you are a method arguer and that is the highest compliment I can pay to you.” ([39:33])

• Wildes: Realizes he misjudged his peers’ need for validation. “The external validation is a little concerning for me. I didn’t have you guys pegged for that.” ([41:05])

• Nick: Confesses to the addictive nature of minor fame and its psychological traps—even relating it to how social media has changed collective psychology.

• Wildes’ story: At the Belmont Stakes, a fan recognizes Nick but not Wildes, humorously illustrating “levels of fame.” ([44:41])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Nick Wright, on rivals:
  “Right now, rising to the top of the rivals list is Pablo Torre and he will be vanquished.” ([07:15])

• Kevin Wildes, on word choice:
  “My favorite is deserve. Deserve is one of my favorite words. Does Lamar deserve to be a 10-point favorite?...Deserve, it’s just so good.” ([23:25])

• Pablo, on failed takes:
  “Ben Simmons is my answer...like a flying car that doesn’t have brakes.” ([19:31])

• Nick, on sports predictions:
  “I don’t understand people being embarrassed by incorrect sports predictions...Do I care? Like, what is like? Like, oh, no. This loser’s gonna retweet the thing that I said.” ([13:27])

• On fame, Nick Wright:
  “My entire adult life, I’ve had tiny, slightly increasing fame...it’s like watching your kid get taller. You don’t actually recognize it.” ([34:00])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:40 – Importance of rankings in sports media
• 03:58 – Pablo confronts Nick about backhanded compliment
• 07:15 – Nick details his “rivals list” for sports media
• 11:06 – Nick atones for Bears Super Bowl prediction
• 17:41 – Wildes on never giving up on favorite quarterbacks
• 19:31 – Pablo gives up on Ben Simmons
• 23:25 – The loaded vocabulary of debate: “deserve” and “disrespect”
• 27:22 – Drafting “types” of fame; Mike Trout, Sully, Daniel Day-Lewis
• 34:00 – Nick on growing up with slow-boil fame
• 39:33 – Pablo dubs Nick a “method arguer”
• 41:05 – Wildes comments on his friends’ need for validation
• 44:41 – Wildes’ Belmont Stakes story on being only semi-famous

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Overall Tone

The conversation is fast, irreverent, competitive, and meta—frequently poking fun at sports debate tropes while also sincerely reckoning with their own insecurities and ambitions. The banter is dense with genuine camaraderie, competitive needling, and the occasional philosophical aside about the mental costs of chasing relevance in media. It’s as much about ego and performance as it is about sports.

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In Summary

This episode serves as both a playful roast of sports media’s quirks and a surprisingly honest group therapy session about ego, failure, and the need for public affirmation. For anyone interested in the psychology behind sports punditry—and how “takes” become a way of life and a metric of self-worth—this is a candid, funny, and insightful listen.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out I am Pablo Torre. Today's episode is brought to you by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[B]

I'm not acting, but thank you.

[C]

I don't think he's acting. It's just a character. He's just a real life character.

[A]

Right after this ad. You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network. What a delight to have you both.

[C]

Here, by the way, you know, for me. Thanks for having us.

[A]

Yeah. You're taking stock of your surroundings, Kevin.

[C]

Well, I've seen. I. I'm, you know, I'm a big fan.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Waiting for Nick to chime in with a compliment, but none has come.

[B]

I didn't. I don't like to come over the top on someone else's compliment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I also don't like to lie. So I was in a weird spot.

[C]

You know, kind of a double way out.

[B]

But by the way, evidently my hair is getting screwed up by the headphones.

[A]

I think it looks great.

[C]

Has been looking good, though.

[B]

I appreciate that.

[A]

All of our hair is looking pretty good.

[B]

There's.

[C]

Sorry.

[B]

Pablo's got great hair. Wilds has wild hair. I. I just. My hair's fine. I'm in a room with two people objectively with better hair than me. My hair gets graded on a curve because I used to have a shaved head and people thought that was by force than by choice. So people oddly think this is like fake hair. But set that aside.

[A]

We're going to rank everything in the room by the time this episode is over.

[B]

Rankings matter. You know what? Can I just say something? These people that think they're too goddamn good to like, oh, for lists and rankings and whatever, that's what life is. I'm not into people that think they're too good for what everyone enjoys.

[C]

Rankings are number one, dude.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

Number two.

[A]

Rankings.

[C]

Rankings are number one as far as ways to organize. Number one. Number one.

[A]

Number one. Rankings. Number two, Art. And that's the end of the list.

[C]

Just rankings and art.

[A]

Yeah. Let's all get claps, though. Good. Oh, that was good.

[C]

Clap. Missed it.

[A]

Best clap, Nick. Second best clap. Me. Worst clap. Wilds. Okay, so you should know that the reason that I've decided to start the new year with Nick Wright and Kevin Wilds here with me in studio is for a very particular reason. Nick and Wilds, in case you did not know, co host a popular sports television show called First Things first over on FS.1, or as they called the show at the start of one episode.

[C]

Last year, the show that's going to vanquish Pablo Torres.

[B]

Oh, come on. Don't put that on the air.

[A]

Why?

[C]

I'm serious about it.

[B]

Okay. All right.

[A]

You want to do it?

[B]

We're going to do it together.

[A]

All right. And shout out to their co host, by the way, Chris Broussard, who you could hear at the end of that video just then, just immediately washing his hands of all of this. But my feud with Nick and Kevin actually began a lot earlier than that, and so I needed to begin this episode, which will go unusually deep inside of the business of sports media and the art of giving takes and the crafting of magic words and the ranking of celebrity, because Nick started off originally as a solo radio host, and Wilde started off as a television producer that.

[B]

I worked with at espn.

[A]

And I just needed to confront them about the last time that the three of us had been together in person, which was naturally at Kevin Wilde's family holiday party.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

December 2023. Nick, it's the Upper west side. It's almost Christmas. I see you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you say to me something that I've been waiting over a year to talk to you about.

[B]

Great.

[A]

You said.

[B]

I have no recollection.

[C]

You say to me, this is great.

[A]

I think you're the second smartest person in sports media.

[B]

I called you second. I would have thought maybe third, but sure, yeah. Did I have myself first or Bomani first?

[A]

I never followed up until now. I want the rest of these rankings.

[B]

Well, do I think I am the smartest guy in sports media? Obviously, I think that I would. I would. And I would think anyone that is in the lane I'm in, if they think there's someone smarter than them, I would lose respect for them.

[A]

Is like the lane you're in. Breathing person.

[B]

No. Or what? I'm the smartest person in the world. That's ridiculous. I don't even think I'm one of the. No. But I'm in an industry where the barrier for entry of intelligence is not exactly high.

[A]

How dare you? And how dare you.

[B]

And the. The lane I have is the annoyingly accurate smart guy.

[C]

He has been right about the chiefs. You called that one.

[A]

Well, that is at least one third true. Annoyingly accurate. Smart.

[B]

I would just ask the audience, what else are we going to assign my success to? My look. No, My. I got a great voice. No connections, no athleticism, no likability. Pretty clearly not. It's like, God damn it. That Guy really irritates me, but he's smart. I learned something, and he's right a lot.

[C]

That's a great take.

[B]

I mean, what do we assign Wild's success to? He's incredibly handsome. He's one of the funniest people I've ever met.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's super likable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, if he had all of those things and was the smartest guy in the room, I don't think he. I think he. This is president. But.

[A]

But this is. This is the.

[C]

I don't know if I got complimented or dissed there. I think.

[A]

I think.

[C]

I think it's 60, 40.

[A]

There's a real ice cream sandwich of a compliment.

[C]

Great at all.

[B]

But I also think it really says a profound amount about you that it stuck with you for 14 months because it means that you. You.

[A]

You're.

[B]

You operate under the same assumption I do, that you're the smartest guy in the business.

[A]

It's hard to debate that, actually.

[C]

Oh, you want to be the smartest, too?

[A]

Want to be. Is a real loaded clause.

[C]

You guys are.

[B]

Do you know see why this guy's my rival?

[C]

Do you see this rivals thing is more interesting.

[B]

Do you get it?

[C]

Having like A. We're 30 seconds away to debating the salary cap. The reason.

[B]

Look at the second apron.

[A]

That doesn't work.

[B]

So important for Wild.

[C]

Talking about the second apron.

[A]

It's so important for Wilds to be here because I think putative can't make anything happen.

[C]

Shut up.

[A]

Meanwhile, Wild's take is like, why is it an apron?

[C]

Here we go. No, do the rivals thing.

[A]

I want to catch people up on that.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Which is that Nick declared on Lebatard's show that he has rivals.

[B]

Kevin Wilds makes fun of me because he says that this is an insane way to look at my career. But I just assumed everyone looked at it this way, which is I have a rivals list. Everyone in the media that is within two years of me or younger than me, I must vanquish and I must be more successful than I have to do it. They are all my rivals. And the reason I mention it is right now, rising to the top of the rivals list is Pablo Torre, and he will be vanquished. The top. Pablo's younger than me. Pablo made fun of me a bit on the show the other day, which only solidified that he is my rival. And it doesn't matter that we're friendly. It doesn't matter that he's always been kind to me. It doesn't matter that I was at a Christmas party with him. I will vanquish Pablo Torre.

[C]

You guys, at one point were both, like, young. I've known Pablo for so long. Like, remember when Pablo was like, the young guy at espn?

[A]

Really?

[C]

Pablo's young and you were young. Yeah. And now you're 40.

[A]

Right, but so I am 39.

[C]

I mean, that's basically. That's 40.

[B]

So the, the, the.

[C]

That's even worse than 40. Honestly, I don't.

[B]

I. I don't know.

[A]

It's a good take.

[B]

I don't think it is unique in any industry to look at the other high achievers that are around your age and, and measure yourself against them. So everyone that was around my age, even though we're not young anymore, they're all rivals.

[C]

And then I tried to set up, like, a beef. It didn't really take off.

[A]

Yeah, I. I was.

[C]

You set some bombs over you. You said some swear words. I was like, yeah, I know.

[A]

I think I. I think I went.

[C]

But I think we were on vacation. I was like, why'd you launch the. The rivalry beef?

[A]

I hate Nick right now.

[C]

Okay, feels like.

[A]

Which, which camera? Can I, can I. Can I speak into this one right here? Oh, yeah, all of them. You, Kevin Wilds, you're a C word. Capitalism. Content capitalism.

[C]

You guys, I think Pablo started a beef, but we're not even gonna respond.

[A]

And first things first. Was on vacation, and I was just yelling into just the noise editing foam in this room. We do have a segment that I wanted to do, and the segment was going to be take atonement. And when I texted you guys about this immediately and unsurprisingly, Nick refused to play along with the segment. Wild was down. I was down. You were not.

[B]

I. No, I. Again, you want me to.

[A]

Do you want me to read into the court transcript, please?

[B]

Text it, please, and see if the audience thinks that I refused.

[C]

Also, just lie. Say he said something.

[B]

No, Read exactly what I wrote.

[A]

Pablo, you are the number one smartest person in sports media.

[C]

Strike it from the record.

[A]

And then Wiles replies, I'm in. The next morning, Nick replies, I'm not saying I'm not in exactly, but I'm sure you guys will understand that asking me to compile my allegedly worst opinions assumes facts not in evidence. Yeah, parentheses that such opinions exist. Close parentheses, Period. New text. This could be a Herculean undertaker.

[B]

Exactly. So as I stated before, I never said I wasn't in. I just said, it's going to be hard, but I've got some things ready. But do you want to go first since you guys were the ones in first?

[A]

You're saying that you have generated.

[B]

Yeah, I've got some ones that didn't work.

[A]

Is it this one?

[B]

I'm ready to move from the flirtation stage to the commitment stage. And I am picking the Chicago Bears.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And Caleb Williams to win the NFC and to be a rookie quarterback representative in the Super Bowl. Yeah. I mean that's the obvious one. Now I am curious. If Jaden Daniels were to make the super bowl, that take becomes basically half right. Because most of the people's objection was a rookie quarterbacks never made the Super Bowl. And it would have been like if you say, hey, asteroids gonna hit Earth in Peru in 2028 and an asteroid hits Argentina in 2028, you weren't as wrong as the people who were like, no way, it's not coming. You were definitely more right. And so Jaden Daniels season kind of indicates the opinion a bit, but obviously didn't go that way. There's a whole nother sliding doors thing of Tyreek Stevenson doesn't taunt the fans and the Bears get to five and two and Jaden loses that game. What we're talking about. But no, that was a bad take. The thing about sports predictions is their predictions and the, you know, as. As try as I might, can't flawlessly tell the future. Yeah, that would have been probably. I don't know if that would have been the number one draft pick for the wrongest take I've had.

[C]

But it's up. I mean, it's a take though.

[A]

That was just the one from this past year that.

[C]

I mean, that's a great take though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Obviously you're saying the process of the take good. The result was bad.

[C]

If the take cuts through and it makes sense, it's a great take. Doesn't necessarily have to be right or wrong.

[B]

What was your request since you have the text pulled up?

[A]

The request bad predictions was. It was actually. I thought it was a magnanimous offer. It was a take exorcism. We all volunteer a take that we.

[B]

Oh, if it was one take, then that would have been. Then it wouldn't have been Herculean. I thought we needed like a long list.

[A]

We do have this take also. Just for the record on that.

[B]

I don't believe in the Eagles, I don't believe in their coach and I'm starting not to believe in their quarterback. Yeah, I mean two thirds of that applies. I don't believe in the quarterback and I don't believe in the coach that now I was dead wrong on Saquon and his impact. And Brew nailed that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The thing that I was going to bring to the take exorcism was I did pick the Lakers to beat the Nuggets.

[C]

Oh, yeah, that. That was my shining moment.

[A]

Zeros on the clock. The Nuggets advance.

[B]

They have won. Here's the other thing I don't understand people being embarrassed by incorrect sports predictions. I think that old takes exposed. Guy existing has been one of the greatest things that ever happened in my career because I think there's a lot of people who are like, oh, boy, I don't want to get old takes exposed. Let me water this one down. Do I care? Like, what is like? Like, oh, no. Oh, no. This loser's gonna retweet the thing that I said.

[C]

I like that guy.

[A]

But isn't there some amount of tension, though, in being guy who is the most right and being guy who does not feel an ounce of pain when he is wrong? Isn't that in conflict? Can you be both?

[B]

Because I take so much pride in being correct, I should feel shame when I'm wrong.

[A]

It's a classic having cake and trying to eat it as well situation.

[B]

How so?

[A]

Because you want to be the guy who's right, but also when you're wrong, you say, I don't actually get bothered by being wrong.

[B]

Well, it's the. It's.

[A]

It's a lot of upside, but almost no downside that you are willing to absorb.

[B]

I. I fundamentally disagree. It is the life of a. In a different genre, professional gambler.

[C]

I knew it. I knew it.

[B]

Which is I am going to, in a theoretical world, be the world's greatest sports better. And I'm going to make millions of dollars a year betting sports. And my path to doing that is being correct 56% of the time. And part of that means I know going in, I am going to be wrong 2 out of 5. And if every time I'm wrong, I'm like, oh, what am I going to do now? Then that is. You are the ultimate. Trust the process, Guy. You are the ultimate.

[A]

This is unfortunately true.

[B]

And so, no, I don't. I don't go into every football season saying, well, we're going to be perfect. I go into every football season saying, I'm going to be better than all my rivals. And luckily, all of them, year after year, convince themselves the greatest team any of us have ever seen is probably not that good. So I start off way ahead, and I only need a few Other things to fall to be the rightest one.

[A]

Nick does have a remarkable thing going. Wilds. Where? And again, this is not the original observation, but somehow his portfolio includes LeBron James.

[B]

I said this a few months ago and I believe it 100% to be true. He'll never be back.

[A]

And Patrick Mahomes.

[B]

You know why teams do weird when they're playing the Chiefs? Because staring across the sideline and seeing Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid terrifies them.

[A]

And he has marked himself as an underdog somehow, despite those being the two items at the top of his list. Can I be prying and rude on the subject of Nick's relationship with Patrick Mahomes and LeBron James?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

The idea that LeBron or Patrick Mahomes would be in the midst of some take storm and they would see yours and be like, yeah, thank you for saying appreciate it.

[B]

Yeah, I think they appreciate it.

[C]

Shingoon has never reached out to me. All I do is. All I do is sing the guy's praises. I was early on that. But Shingoon is learning from Joker. He's Baby Joker.

[B]

Okay. He is. Okay.

[C]

Baby Joker. Okay. That's fine. The pro bono publicist for Shingoon. This dude is out here. It should make the all Star.

[B]

Really should get more love from shin. From your guys.

[C]

Yeah, because my guys.

[B]

Well, hold on.

[C]

I rock with my guys.

[B]

Matt Jones did start following you on Twitter.

[C]

Yes. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Does that mean that he's not being submitted to the center of the table for a take atonement?

[C]

No. I mean, I can get into that.

[A]

I thought that that's what you were going to get into never. But now I'm never going to leave.

[C]

Mac Jones, basically, because Sam Darnold, I call it. I'm telling this, the Sam Darnold defication of sports. You want a $5 word Donald vacation? Sam Darnold's success has made it possible for me to never sell any bad take anywhere off play action.

[A]

Stepping up, launching downfield.

[C]

And it is caught twisting, turning.

[B]

Touchdown Jefferson. Minnesota's back in front.

[C]

Like, Sam Darnold was given up on by the jets, the Panthers, and then when he got to the 49ers, was it. Shanahan is like. He reminds me, like, why can't Sam Darnold be good? Steve Young got good at 30. We're like, Whoa, that's a compliment. That kind of hit my radar. Like, time to get into the Sam Darnold take business. And Sam Darnold is amazing. So why is. Was. Is Mac Jones right Now as good as Carolina, Sam Darnold, probably not.

[B]

But.

[C]

Never leaving Mac Jones.

[B]

But point taken.

[C]

That's it. It's the ceiling of guys. I'm never giving up on anybody until they retire. And like, I don't know, maybe usfl, he can, he can come back with the point.

[A]

The point you're making is that Sam Darnold was a turning point in the sports discour such that because he has had a comeback like this, now we cannot write off anybody, certainly quarterbacks who.

[C]

Are so situationally coach, wide receiver, offensive line dependent.

[A]

Sure. What I'm getting though, is that neither of you are going to play this game.

[B]

I know. What do you mean?

[A]

You're both rejecting the concept of having.

[B]

A take to a Pablo, you haven't said one of yours.

[A]

Ben Simmons.

[C]

I'm not giving up on Ben Simmons. He gets his back healthy.

[A]

Ben Simmons unfollowed me on Twitter. Ben Simmons is my answer.

[C]

You're giving up on Ben Simmons?

[A]

I think I have to be. I think I have to. My take on Ben Simmons was always. And this is. I'll, I'll. I'll do a little Nick Wright for you. Nick, if I gave you a flying car, you'd be impressed, right?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

If this car was the fastest car in the world, you'd be impressed.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

If this car didn't have a stereo, you'd be bummed, but you'd still think, incredible car. Yeah, that's Ben Simmons.

[B]

That's such a terrible take. I'll stick with your analogy. If because the lack of brakes exist, you're afraid to drive the car fast, but it can go fast, you're afraid to take it on the freeway, but it can drive above traffic, then it doesn't matter. It can do all those other things. It. The other guys in league history who have had a hole in their game and it didn't metastasize in a way that it undermined every other piece of their game and that's what happened to this kid. And I don't know, I don't. I. I don't know the full psychology of it, but it's been. We've known it for five years.

[A]

I don't like that Nick has workshopped my take into a better take.

[C]

Although I think right now is Ben Simmons number one fan and supporter available real estate?

[B]

Yes. You want it?

[C]

I mean, if it's available.

[A]

Is that Kevin Wilds can become the.

[C]

Number one Ben Simmons.

[A]

Number one Ben Simmons guy.

[C]

Yeah, I'll do that.

[B]

Pablo wants you to atone for a Take I have atoned for the record. I don't know why I'm not playing along. I atoned for the Saquon not working with the Eagles, the Bears making the Super Bowl, Derrick Henry not making a difference for the Ravens. I'll throw in.

[C]

And.

[B]

And the Lakers beating the Nuggets.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

In last year's playoffs. So there's. There's four. You know what?

[C]

I don't think my I might need to atone for anything.

[B]

How about no one's beating the Nuggets in a seven game series and they won literally one seven games.

[A]

That was worth it.

[B]

And then blew a 20 point lead at home.

[C]

That wasn't great. How do I remain so confident? I'm always reminding myself bank no one's beating Denver in a seven game series. I'm going to say it a hundred times and I'm always reminding myself. I'm not atoning for that though.

[A]

You can do a non sports take. Atonement. I didn't specify you can do any. Is there any take wilds that you regret that you've come around on in the last year or more? We can do more. I'll give you one. In the meantime, while you're thinking a.

[C]

A non sports take that I've just been wrong about, I'm like, you know what? This is good.

[B]

He said he has one he wants to give.

[C]

Yeah, go ahead. I'll. I'll brainstorm.

[A]

I'm a morning guy now. I used to want to stay up late. Now I wake up at like 5:30am.

[C]

Was that a take or just like an evolution of your life? I think I was like mornings suck.

[A]

I think I was dead wrong. Yeah. My take previously had been I will never want to wake up this early. And now I'm regularly waking up this early and it's better. Yeah, I get so much more done.

[C]

Yeah, it's better. Yeah, the mornings are great.

[A]

Also being a dad, I feel like I get to spend time and you know.

[C]

Yeah, that's the take. Morning. That mornings are better than night.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. I'll fall asleep at 11pm 10:30.

[B]

Even called aging.

[C]

Yeah. I think that's just maturity.

[A]

This also brings us to the vocabulary portion.

[B]

So what is this portion of?

[A]

It's just the idea.

[C]

Favorite portion.

[B]

It's your favorite.

[C]

Yeah. Go talk Pablo. Sorry.

[A]

Wild. Set it up, please.

[C]

Words that work for sports debate maybe like magic words. My favorite is deserve. Deserve is one of my favorite words. Does Lamar deserve to be a 10 point favorite? Does Russell Wilson deserve. Deserve to be a 10 point underdog. Do the Chiefs deserve the buy? Like what, they're 15 and 1. Yeah, they do. Yeah. But, dude, they deserve it. It's just so good. So I was trying to.

[A]

So. Right.

[B]

It's.

[A]

It's weighted with morality.

[C]

E is just fantastic.

[A]

Do they cosmically. Yeah. Merit this thing that has.

[C]

So do you have a. Do you know the other ones that. That we use on the show?

[B]

Reaction.

[C]

No.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

Nick's so bad at this game. He's so bad at this.

[B]

Why would I be good at this? I don't even understand the game.

[C]

The correct answer was disrespected. Okay. Is Sean Payton being disrespected?

[B]

Okay. I get it.

[C]

Those are. Those are.

[A]

I think another one. Should the Lions be afraid?

[C]

Oh, yeah. That's good.

[A]

Of anyone in the nfc.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And we do the. We do another version of that, which is how scary are.

[C]

Yeah. I don't know. Yeah.

[B]

Are the Bengals the scariest?

[C]

The scary. Yes, scariest. Scary is good too, because it just. It's very like. You get immediate reality. I'm not gonna be scared of that.

[A]

But the subtext in the best vocabulary words in this way are always the words that imply some level of disrespect.

[C]

Yes. Deserve disrespect. Fear. Unfair. We use a lot unfair. That blank. Unfair. Is this unfair? But it's all based on justice.

[A]

A cosmic sense of justice.

[B]

Well, yeah. Just. It's. To get wilds. Wants more emotion and less analytical responses.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Typically that creates the best show.

[C]

Yeah. Some sort of. Some combination of the two.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But an emotional response with a. With a statistical foundation is nice.

[B]

Yeah. No, no. It has to be based in fact. But a feel to it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what makes.

[C]

With philosophical kind of a clash.

[A]

So I did high school debate. One of the things that I learned is that a key to ensuring a messy disagreement is to never define the term that you're actually debating.

[C]

Oh. And be valuable.

[A]

Valuable. Greatest. These are things where Nick has. Nick's brain has already activated. If you were to put an FMRI on Nick's brain, as I said, those words, you would have had already, like a decision tree of just arguments about.

[C]

In the debate team. That's. That's something from like the. I'm not totally. I've seen a few debates, but I'm not totally familiar with the format. But it's terrible. That's something that the initial.

[A]

You will have to spend time in your. In your opening case, like saying that you define the terms. You attempt to define the Terms so that you both agree on what you're arguing about. And if you don't, you end up eternally debating Michael Jordan versus LeBron.

[C]

That sounds great.

[A]

Like, if you were to just dive into it without agreeing on what value means, you would never actually engage. Or at least you wouldn't engage with what the other person is actually trying to say until, like, several levels into the argument that you were making.

[C]

That's the fun part, though. Taking the fun.

[B]

Yeah, but so what?

[A]

Well, that's what I mean. Messy disagreement is actually.

[C]

Yeah, I like the messiness of it.

[A]

Great to watch two people really good at disagreeing do, but really bad if you're trying to resolve anything, which is why you don't actually want to have a word that is so clean and binary. You want to have something that you just lose yourself at.

[C]

Okay. Yeah. Now you know.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

I hate you guys.

[B]

It seems like there was a period at the end of that.

[A]

Here's a. A question that I've genuinely been curious about with you guys. The best form of famous. Who is famous? Best. Whose fame do you want? The whole world is available to draft. Whose famous do you want?

[B]

Is there any financial association to this?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Or is it just the fame?

[A]

There is financial association with it. You can monetize it. You can do whatever you want.

[B]

No, no, no. That's not what I mean. What I mean is, do you get this person's fame and wealth or just their fame? I'm not saying you can. You can then make money off that level of fame. What I'm saying is if you. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, you understand the question I'm asking? Because, like, I don't. This is not who I would pick. I don't think Chris Bosh's fame is hyper. Hyper monetizable, but he's got a couple hundred million dollars already. So I'm asking if you. If in that scenario, if you were to pick Chris Bosch, do you take with you the couple hundred million dollars? It's probably more interesting if the answer is no, that you're just getting their fame.

[A]

Right. Right. It's celebrity.

[C]

Do you have a answer for this?

[A]

I have a draft pick.

[C]

Okay. I want to hear yours, if that's okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I want to be Mike Trout.

[C]

Mike Trout.

[A]

I want to be revered among those who know what it is that I do and respect why it is that I'm good at it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But I also want the plausible deniability of ever actually being identified as or stopped as Mike Trout.

[C]

I mean, as far as a number one pick, like, can Mike Trout get into every restaurant? Because if you can't, if, like, if Mike Trout and his wife are going like they said, it's going to be 15 minutes, maybe 45. I'm like. She'd be like, honey, you're Mike Trout. I know, but I played for the Angels.

[B]

What if.

[A]

What if Mike Trout has his assistant that's just him who has registered.

[C]

I'm having a crowd. Then I'm not famous enough.

[A]

Send a reservation request with the hyperlink.

[B]

Page.

[C]

I don't know if that plays. I think I have a better answer.

[B]

Let me hear you.

[A]

What do you got?

[C]

Sully.

[A]

Sully Sullenberger.

[C]

Yeah. Hero. Hero with a mustache. I think hero like, hero for being cool, not just saving lives. You didn't just, you know, you're not a scientist, that in, you know, wow, this. This invention that you made saved a lot of lives, which is very good. Don't get me wrong. Like, no, I saved lives in a dramatic way. In the city now with the Tom Hanks movie. I guess he had to go to. If people were mad at Sully for some reason.

[B]

Yeah, but.

[C]

Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't like that part at all.

[A]

Did they cancel Sully at the end of Sully?

[C]

No.

[B]

Remember, he was in the midst of it. People were there was. If the Hanks movie's correct, he was really raked over the coals about. Did you actually have to land in the Hudson?

[C]

Yeah. I don't know who's giving Sully.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I would have gone to the congressional me, like, hey, man, Sully. The events of January 15, 2009, have been well documented.

[B]

And rather than recite them now in.

[C]

Great detail, I want only to reiterate to the subcommittee that the successful outcome was achieved by the actions of many. I think Sully is just great. Everybody loves him.

[B]

But so.

[C]

But maybe he's got some waning fame, but he's just right.

[B]

But. So you are.

[C]

Hero is nice.

[B]

By that.

[A]

You want people to say thank you.

[B]

Hero's nice.

[C]

But, like.

[B]

But let me ask.

[C]

Hero is pretty sick.

[B]

Let me. Definitely sick. But let me ask a question. To me, that. That answer tells me you don't value at all, like, recognized on the street.

[C]

No, that's probably a detriment. I don't think famous people like that at all.

[A]

So I think some people don't. Others.

[B]

Tommy DeVito's agent lives for it.

[C]

That's a good level of fame.

[A]

But your draft pick is Tommy DeVito's.

[B]

No, that's not. No, no, no. That's not my draft pick. I was just saying. So it was just interesting that Wilds picked a guy who I think Sean Stadt only. Yeah. Only becomes recognized upon introduction and never randomly. You understand what I mean? Like, people hear the name, and I think most people know it, but you have the st. Even with the stash. I got to tell you, right now, I don't know what he. If I close my eyes and think of that guy, it's the thing of Tom Hanks. Like, I don't remember what the guy actually looks like. And if he was walking down the street, I wouldn't know him. What happened to us on the way in that, to me, is awesome at that exact level. When we were walking in the building, somebody just walked by, was like, hey, fellas, love the show. Like, I, I, that's a great, like, endorphin boost.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I also think being truly famous would be exhausting, and I don't think that would be fun.

[C]

No. But if the guy was like, hey, Wild's gonna say, yeah. He's like, you're amazing for landing a plane in the odds and river, saving all those lives.

[B]

I agree.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

I'm trying to think of the name of, like, who this describes, because my answer would be someone who, if they want to be recognized, is wildly famous and, like you said, can get in anywhere, no weight, but also with sunglasses and a baseball cap on.

[C]

That's Mike Trout.

[A]

Is.

[C]

That's the micro.

[A]

That's why I drafted Mike Trout, Nick.

[B]

But you're saying that Mike Trout couldn't, can't just get in.

[A]

Wait, wait, hold on. Are you describing, like, a dj? Like, I'm Avicii?

[B]

No. People are like, oh, my God. I'll be honest. I'm lying here. I'm lying. I. Whatever level of fame I have, I enjoy, and I would like more so this. I, I don't want to be anonymous. I, I don't think I, I think it would bum me out.

[C]

It would bum you out to be anonymous?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I, I appreciate Nick's honesty. So here's why I unfortunately relate to.

[B]

This, but I've never. And you're going to laugh at me, but just follow me here. My entire adult life, I've had tiny, slightly increasing fame.

[C]

How about, like, Kansas City radio?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. So Kansas City. Right. And so at 23, once a week, someone be like, yo, love the show. And it's just slightly. So not only am I. Has it never been weird for me because it's like watching your kid get taller. Like, you don't actually recognize it because you see them every day. You know what I mean? Like, it's just been. But also, I have no recollection of it not being there. So I think Wilds had a whole successful career without any real fame associated with it, and now in the last five years, has gotten increasing levels of fame. So Wilds has a. A standard to rem.

[A]

Like.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Everything. Like, I was an adult with a wife and kids, and none of this.

[C]

Yeah, you're like a child star, basically.

[B]

No, that's not what I. Again, that's why I said you're.

[A]

But to next point, you, Kevin, were a producer.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You were, like, having secret meetings with Kobe Bryant. Once upon a time.

[C]

Secret. But.

[A]

But that's what you were doing. You were, like, producing, like, shows for sure. The most famous and inconveniently famous people.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And Nick and I have been.

[B]

Clawing.

[A]

Digging my fingernails into a tree trunk of celebrity.

[B]

Yeah. So that. So. So I think my answer is like, Daniel Day Lewis, I drink your milkshake. I drink it up. Because I don't.

[C]

All that dude tries to do is.

[B]

Hide well, but he's different than me.

[A]

Such a perfect answer.

[B]

But I think that. I think that Daniel Day Lewis, if he wants to just go out and go to Walgreens, is able to do it. But I also think he's like, man, I want to be Daniel Day Lewis tonight. He obviously can be. That seems awesome.

[C]

I guess so. You know, like the chameleon.

[B]

Yeah. So, like, so I. Because I initially. So someone like Mark Wahlberg. That seems exhausting. Like, he just has to be Mark Wahlberg at all times and everywhere he goes. Like, anyone that feels like I have to. You know what? I have to have security. That seems exhausting.

[A]

Right. Mark Wahlberg walks around thinking that he could do a better job of saving people on an airplane than Sully.

[C]

He did do an airplane movie.

[A]

He also believed he could stop 911.

[C]

I have another one. Yeah. Again, it's super. It's even more anonymous. I wrote Winston Wolf famous.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

As in the fictional character.

[C]

The fictional character Winston Wolf, where for some reason he's in a tuxedo, so he must be in. He's rolling in these interesting circles. And when. Who does it? Ving Roms.

[B]

Ving Rhames.

[C]

Excuse me.

[A]

Earnestly pronounce it Rams.

[C]

I didn't know. I don't know how you pronounce Ving Rhames name, but now I Do mispronunciations.

[B]

Are fine because it means you learned it by reading it instead of hearing it.

[C]

Actually I may have just misremembered it in any event. And then C. Jackson, like they're very excited to see him.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It seems like he's got a nice car. He has connections at the dumpster. You're Jimmy, right?

[A]

This is your house.

[C]

Sure is.

[B]

I'm Winston Wolf.

[C]

I solve problems like it just.

[A]

He's there to help you get out of a bind.

[C]

But not necessarily like I don't want that to be my job necessarily.

[B]

No. But you.

[C]

What you mean is within an industry I'm considered. Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Drug kingpin. Famous.

[C]

That's an interesting type of things. I do not. I think it's quite dangerous.

[B]

No, I understand but I. But it's the same type of thing where it's like you are anonymous to everyone except for the people who know who you are and those people. You're a big deal.

[A]

This is.

[C]

And in that element that's also like kind of like a Sully thing. Except Sully did his thing.

[A]

I would urge you to reconsider and do Mike Trout. Taking Mike Trout.

[C]

I'm not taking Mike Trout.

[A]

He gives you drug kingpin fame.

[C]

I didn't want that without having.

[A]

I do not want assassination as a.

[C]

Concern fame at all.

[B]

No, I, I, I was just trying to. Maybe I should use a different analogy. Phil Ivy.

[C]

It's a good level of fame where.

[B]

Once again people who know no and.

[C]

To those great level of fame that.

[B]

People usually conspicuous also. But also your you know what I mean too. So I.

[C]

That's what mine is. But it's like I can wear a tuxedo. Yeah, I'm big on if I can wear a tuxedo.

[B]

That was a good question. Pablo, do you have a list of questions that we should have let you ask instead we just said dumb stuff for 40 minutes.

[A]

We've reached the end of the show and at the end of every show we talk about what we found out today. It's called Pablo. Tori finds out. So I will ask us to go around the table. We all say what it is we found out. After hanging out with each other and finding all this stuff out, I have found out that Nick Wright drafting Daniel Day Lewis is the perfect answer for a guy who I can't tell is acting or not.

[B]

You can't tell if I'm acting.

[A]

I think you are a method arguer and that is the highest compliment I can pay to you.

[B]

I'm not acting.

[C]

I don't think he's acting. It's just a character. He's just a real life character. What did I learn?

[A]

That Sean Stellato was In fact, Tommy DeVito's agent.

[C]

No, I knew that he knew that.

[A]

I saw you at Yankee Stadium, by the way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Game five.

[B]

We said hello to each.

[A]

Yes, but I think Sean Stellato was also there.

[B]

Yeah, I know. That's the bit that I. Sean Salado. You know why you recognize them? Because he was walking around begging people to recognize him and hoping someone said, please take a picture with me. Like, that's. That's why Wiles doesn't like me saying this because he thinks it's mean. And it is mean. But sometimes truths need to be spoken.

[C]

You go on what you learned, and then I'll go.

[A]

I also just learned that truth.

[B]

I learned I hurt Pablo's feelings at your Christmas party.

[C]

I don't think you heard his feelings.

[B]

I don't think that was the takeaway.

[A]

I've learned. I. I found out that Nick is projecting onto my feelings, maybe his own heart.

[B]

No, it's not.

[C]

I'm trying to find a nicer one because the one that's actually there, it's. I feel like it's not.

[B]

Take it.

[C]

Kind take it. I think you guys are nuts for not wanting to be anonymous. Like, I feel like you're, like, headed towards. You're gonna be in the old folks home. Be like, hello. Like, it's just. I don't know.

[A]

I'm gonna be podcasting till I die, so. Yeah, just, I guess, call me crazy.

[C]

Well, it's just, I don't know, the external validation is a little concerning for me. I didn't have you guys pegged for that.

[A]

Really?

[B]

You didn't. Maybe you didn't have me pegged for that.

[A]

What I have found out is that Kevin Wilds is terrible at pegging people.

[C]

No, I did. For external validate. I didn't know. No, because you're kind of like, I don't know. I thought the art of the take was good enough.

[B]

No.

[C]

Can I ask you a question? If you were on a deserted island with this setup, just you, do you think you would give takes?

[B]

Of course.

[C]

That's what I'm saying. But it would just be a mic plugged into nowhere. You'd be like, all right, yeah.

[B]

No, so. So both can be true.

[C]

In itself is a ful.

[B]

A thousand percent. That is true. What is also true is I have become addicted to the occasional, what I call it endorphin boost or ego boost, or Whatever of the stranger saying, you know, saying like what you do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or whatever. And I have become very. Was something that I do not. Is not a positive trait, but I recognize it. I. I've become very impatient on lines cuz like I still go out to clubs and stuff with my wife and I used to like, oh, there's a line. We'll just wait in it. And I just don't have the capability anymore.

[A]

I'm like, can't do it. Can't do it.

[B]

Not. I can't.

[C]

That's not. That's not a public facing thing.

[B]

You think that's just getting older?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

You know, no. So I. Maybe. But it's.

[C]

My time's running out. As soon as you get older. Try the older you get, the less interested you are in lines. Like if you're 88, like man got limited time here.

[B]

That part's true.

[C]

Wait in a line.

[B]

Yes. But it's also why I, I don't think human beings are wired for fame. And I just, I think it is unnatural. And it's. Prior to the last 20 years, very, very, very few people were actually had any fame. And everyone wondered like what's happening to society, whatever. That's too wide ranging. But I truly believe millions of people now having an element of notoriety or fame via a social media following has. Is the symptom of so much of people losing their minds. People get more anchored to opinions they had because you used to be able to have a bad opinion anonymously and change it. But now it's like eight years ago I posted on Facebook that I believed this and now people. I'm tied to that like a bad sports take that people won't let go of. And I think that people have started manicuring and curating their own belief system to what they think they're following likes because people aren't wired to deal with fame. And so I think one of the other pieces of that is once you have an element of it, I think most people feel they need it. I'm not saying it's healthy, but I think it's more typical than you would think of people who've been in the public eye for a long time needing to keep some relevance. What do you.

[C]

Can I. Can we end the podcast with a funny story?

[A]

Proceed.

[C]

Belmont Stakes. We're there. Fox has it, so we're there. I've got my kids with me.

[A]

Did you.

[C]

Oh, you brought.

[B]

I brought my daughter.

[C]

Daughter's friend. There's some executives there and it's just a great time and then Nick is. There's. I felt like maybe I'm just telling myself this, but you had some, like, gambling crossover that maybe people recognize you from poker because they're a little bit of poker. Of sports.

[A]

Globally competitive poker player.

[B]

Thanks, Pablo Accurate. Steve said to me, two hours.

[C]

Guy comes over to, like, the little. You're in, like, little squares. And the guy comes over, oh, Nick, love the show. And I'm like, I'm on the show. You know, I'm on the show. It's hard to, like, consume the show and not stumble across me, you know, it's like, I love the steakhouse. Like, I'm the salt shaker. Like. Like I'm there. I'm not saying I'm the star of the show, but I am there, and you usually have to spot me. And then Nick very kindly senses this kind of tension because the guy's talking about the show and, you know, Wilds, he goes. He goes, I don't. You know, Wild's right here. And the guy looks at me and goes. I think he said, do you want a picture with him? And the guy goes, yeah.

[B]

Just kept talking to me, didn't walk away.

[C]

No, it was just. He's like, yeah, all right, buddy. It's not even on film. It's not even a cost. It's just a free. It's. It's not like when I was growing up, like, we only had 12 pieces of Kodak. We don't want to waste one. There you go. That is my level of fame.

[A]

Kevin Wild, Pablo Nick Wright. I mean this when I say this. Two of the greatest guests. That's not in the history.

[C]

Oh, that's what finds out. Because remember, you said, it's like a messy entanglement.

[B]

Thanks, Pablo.

[C]

Bye, Pablo.

[A]

Pablo Torre Finds out is produced by Walter Averroma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Dawig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, neely Loman, Rob McRae, Rachel Miller, Howard Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, Chris Tuminello and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RD Systems. Our sound design by NGW Post. Our theme song, as always, is by John Bravo and we will talk to you next time.