Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: Share & Cheerlead & Tell

Guests: Domonique Foxworth & Jessica Smetana
Date: July 12, 2024
Podcast Network: Le Batard & Friends

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the new Netflix docuseries about the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders, using it as a springboard to discuss issues of gender, labor, sports culture, and the contradictory emotions surrounding cheerleading as an institution. Pablo, Jessica, and Domonique explore the cheerleader's role in the NFL, the exploitative dynamics at play, and personal stories about parenting, sports, and identity.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Netflix Docuseries on Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders

• Jessica Smetana introduces the series and her "contradictory thoughts and emotions" about it, noting that it’s a more polished take on the long-running “Making the Team” show and offers a deeper behind-the-scenes look at the women (02:15).
  • "It really weaves, I think, a well-made narrative... You sort of get emotionally invested in them and their well-being. But like you said, Pablo, there’s so much that goes into it that feels just icky." (Jessica, 03:22)
• All three hosts agree the show is entertaining, but complex, as it doesn't directly tell viewers how to feel about the problematic aspects (03:30).

2. The "Institution" of NFL Cheerleaders

• Domonique contextualizes the fame and cultural clout of Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders—"America’s sweethearts"—and shares his own experience as a judge for Denver Broncos cheerleader auditions (04:03).
• Humorous exploration of who gets to judge tryouts, often including local media, stylists, and “cooking influencers”—with hilarious skepticism about their credentials (05:10).
  • “Stick to weather fronts, buddy.” (Pablo, 06:03)

3. Cheer vs. Dance: “Stolen Valor” & Respect

• Domonique and Jessica discuss the split between “cheerleading” and “dance” squads in the NFL, with those who do stunts (classic cheer) often not recognizing the Cowboys Cheerleaders as “real” cheerleaders (06:26).
  • "There’s dance, there’s cheer… cheer has more stunting and tumbling and stuff like that. But yeah, these are dance teams." (Jessica, 07:23)
• The idea of ‘stolen valor’ among cheerleaders and the status of Dallas as an archetype leads to laughs and nuanced takes on what the job actually is (07:34).

4. Pay & Exploitation: The Economics of Being a Cheerleader

• The low pay is a central theme, both in the show and the podcast.
  • "One of the cheerleaders... was like, I get paid like a substitute teacher. No, wait, like a full-time Chick-fil-A employee." (Pablo, 08:01)
  • Charlotte Jones (Cowboys’ executive) says:

    "There’s a lot of cynicism around pay for NFL cheerleaders, and as it should be. They’re not paid a lot, but the facts are, is that they actually don’t come here for the money..." (Charlotte, 08:36)

• Jessica and Pablo push back on this rationale, noting the massive wealth of the Cowboys and the contradictions of an underpaid, heavily scrutinized workforce that produces so much value (09:24).

5. Physical Toll & Beauty Standards

• Grueling physical demands and pain are highlighted, including stories about dangerous dance stunts and long-term injuries.
  • "There is a degree of difficulty here that 99.9999% of people could not do, like, physically." (Jessica, 12:05)
• Body image and objectification are ever-present; tryout judges scrutinize appearance with comments like:
  • "There’s a little more weight in her face, right?" (Cooking influencer, cited by Pablo, 11:33)
• The contradiction between empowerment and oppression: while many cheerleaders genuinely enjoy performing and form strong bonds, the experience is inescapably shaped by male-dominated power structures, objectification, and underpayment (15:00).

6. Societal and Parental Reflections

• Domonique shares dilemmas as a father whose daughter enjoys dancing and wants to cheer, while he struggles with ingrained gendered notions about cheerleading's role.
  • "It feels like cheerleading is about being in service to the men who are actually doing it... I do have that immediate reaction… you can be the one that people are cheering for." (Domonique, 24:40)
• Discussion of youth sports culture’s elitism and intensity:
  • Jessica: "I imagine it must be particularly difficult to have to raise kids to play sports right now, given how expensive and, like, semi-professional youth sports has gotten" (12:12, expanded at 20:12).
• Parental coaching stories: Domonique’s “lemon booty” (nervous, conservative coaching) in his son’s flag football championship loss—a moment of self-deprecation and warmth (19:25, 20:11).
• Observations about goal-setting and the traps of raising athletes are threaded throughout, with both hope and humor.

7. Gender Tropes & “Cheerleading as Social Training”

• The double bind: Cheerleading seen as both empowering and as reinforcing outdated gender roles—supporting rather than achieving, enthusiasm for others’ successes, and how this model echoes expectations in corporate or societal life (25:15).
  • "My job is also to support men because I work here. So, like, that will be a lesson that your daughter will learn at a young age and take with her into corporate America." (Jessica, 26:47)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On exploitation and pay (08:35):

  • Charlotte Jones: “There’s a lot of cynicism around pay for NFL cheerleaders… they actually don’t come here for the money. They come here for something that’s actually bigger than that to them. … They have a passion for dance.”
  • Jessica: "She’s the daughter of a billionaire who owns the most highly valued team of probably any sport in the world." (09:24)

• On judging panel absurdity (05:21):

  • Pablo: "It was a stylist for a salon. The stylist who then goes on to be the person that does the makeovers… a local meteorologist… a cooking influencer was also there."
  • Jessica: "My favorite is the meteorologist being like, I don’t know about that kick. And I’m like… what?!"

• On the beauty standard (11:33):

  • Pablo: "The cooking influencer… says, ‘There’s a little more weight in her face, right?’"

• On gendered expectations (25:15):

  • Pablo: “A weirdly feminist misogynist.”
  • Jessica: "The trope of the cheerleader is like, you’re the perfect woman because you’re supportive and enthusiastic towards men."

• On parenting (17:58):

  • Domonique: "I decided I would never be [overbearing sports dad] because I did not experience that… There are a couple other paths you could go down… My desire as a parent was always to downplay it."

Important Timestamps

• Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders docuseries discussion: 02:15 – 15:25
• Domonique's insight as a former NFL player/judge: 04:03 – 07:19
• Pay and labor exploitation inside DCC and NFL: 08:01 – 10:00
• Physical difficulties, beauty, and contradictions: 11:33 – 13:24
• Cheerleading vs. athletic achievement, parenting stories: 15:56 – 24:40
• Meta reflections, gender, and socialization: 24:40 – 27:13
• "What did we find out today?" wrap-up: 27:13 – end

Closing Segment: "What Did We Find Out Today?" (27:13)

• Pablo: Relieved not to have to contend with sports-parenting angst.
• Domonique: Self-diagnoses as the "old conservative" he rails against—feels exposed.
• Jessica: Jokes about "throwing big words" and being perceived as smart, gets in a gentle roast of Pablo.

Tone & Style

• Conversational, fast-paced, funny, and irreverent—even when dealing with serious topics.
• Deep empathy for the women in the docuseries, yet a willingness to question and challenge the systemic problems they face.
• Honest, self-reflective, and sometimes self-deprecating dialogue on the part of all three hosts.

For listeners and non-listeners alike, this episode offers a rich, accessible critique of sports, gender roles, labor, and modern entertainment culture—told with wit, lived experience, and insight.