← Pablo Torre Finds Out
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- [00:00]
Pablo Torre
Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is.
- [00:07]
Bill Simmons
So go out and buy a Dell.
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Stephen A. Smith
They're great.
- [00:10]
Pablo Torre
Right after this ad. Right now you're probably listening to this podcast on a wireless network. The same wireless network that you and all your friends use to swipe, scroll, and hopefully download the latest episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out. But if you're a first responder, you should not have to compete with my voice to get a clear signal. And that is exactly why AT&T built FirstNet, a clear wireless lane built with and for first responders. So in an emergency, first responders get there first. Because a network that's not just for anyone helps everyone. To learn more, go to firstnet.com or visit an AT&T store for details.
- [00:50]
Peter Navarro
What's up, y'?
- [00:51]
Stephen A. Smith
All?
- [00:51]
Peter Navarro
Summer's got a different tempo. Everything's a little looser, brighter. One plan turns into another. You hear something, you stay a little longer. Next thing you know, you're somewhere you didn't plan to be. It's those in between moments. That's where the ideas hit. Conversations stretch out. Little memories sneak up on you. And sometimes it's just about what's in your hand. That color. That chill. The new Tropical Butterfly Refresher from Starbucks. Guava and passion fruit flavors with mango pineapple flavored pearls. Yeah, that feels like summer before you even taste it. Funny how one small stop becomes the best, best part of the day. Start your summer rhythm with Starbucks. Try the new Tropical Butterfly Refresher from Starbucks.
- [01:41]
Pablo Torre
This episode of Pablo Torre Finds out is brought to you by the world's leading EIM brand, Airalo. If you have ever landed in a new country and immediately gone into WI fi hunting mode, you'll know how stressful it can be. Travel. Trying to get connected. But Airalo lets you download an EIM before you travel so you can get online the moment you land. No waits, no swapping SIM cards, no confusion. As a journalist myself, I have been lucky enough to do a lot of traveling for work. And landing in an international city is stressful, no matter how prepared you are. Whether you're navigating a new place, finding hidden local spots, or even just keeping in touch with people back home. International travel comes with so many questions and headaches. That's why I love what Airalo is doing. They have figured out how to make travel smoother, and it works just like it does on your phone at home. From maps to dating apps, Airalo has you covered while traveling. Plus, with prepaid plans, there are no hidden fees or nasty roaming surprises waiting for you later. On average, travelers using Airalo can save over 70 bucks on a one week trip compared to traditional carrier daily fees. And the biggest thing for me is that Airalo now offers unlimited data in many destinations, which means no stressing about running out when you're mid adventure or trying to upload that interview to your editor back home. So if you're traveling this summer and want to stay properly connected without the hassle, join the over 30 million travelers who have trusted Airalo and get unlimited data this summer@airalo.com that's a I r a alo.com. Where do we start? Because I've been sending you guys texts this morning and we could start with this ProPublica story that just came out. We could start with the picture of the UFC stargate being erected on the lawn of the White House.
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Bill Simmons
Talk about Donald Trump trying to ruin the vibes in the city. I land in New York, you know, people have a skip in their step. The weather is beautiful. Everybody's got Knicks clothes on. You know, people are fist bumping me on the street. Like nobody can have any joy without me ruining it.
- [03:58]
Stephen A. Smith
No, I, I was invited to the, I was going to go on Wednesday, but they closed it out very quickly. They agreed. Jim Dolan's great guy. He's, as you know, owns and in charge of Madison Square Garden. He's having a good year. Boy, what a team. They win all their games. They really, they have some great players. I think I'll be going to one of the games. I was invited by numerous people and Jim and I think I'll be going. Great. Great to see it. The Knicks have really, they've really suffered for years. What's your producer doing right. They're doing right now.
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Stephanie Rule
I think you guys are wrong on that one. You're giving him too much power on this Knicks thing. Trump wants to go to the Knicks game. Have at it, big boy. Who, who cares? Like, there's a lot of things we should go after him for and fact check him on, but if that guy wants to go to the Knicks game, do it. That's correct.
- [04:50]
Bill Simmons
But there to me, some people can't resist being like, you suck.
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Stephanie Rule
Then let him.
- [04:56]
Bill Simmons
No, they should be focusing their anger on Shay Gilgeous Alexander and how he's
- [05:00]
Pablo Torre
pretending to fool war criminal.
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Bill Simmons
Yes. That's where all of the focus should be. All of the rage should be dialed in. The entire city should be like you.
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Stephanie Rule
I don't think they're gonna care. They're going to be focused on the game. I actually think that the President is going to find himself frustrated because when he thinks he's going to walk into this rocky, like, yeah, people are going to be like, move out. The way I'm here to see Jalen Brunson, I think that's going to be his experience. But giving him more power around the. Should he, shouldn't he? Who cares? This is about the New York Knicks, who haven't been there in 27 years.
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Bill Simmons
This is somebody that's healthy. This is somebody that processes life in a healthy way. Unlike me. You know, I've got it. I'm deranged.
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Stephanie Rule
He's a boy from Queens. He might actually want to go.
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Bill Simmons
Well, I find that very hard to believe.
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Stephanie Rule
Okay, you know what? I said it and then I was
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Bill Simmons
like, maybe not very hard to believe.
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Pablo Torre
So the knicks are donating 750 tickets,
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Bill Simmons
I believe, to the finals.
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Pablo Torre
To the finals.
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Bill Simmons
God, you hate to hand it to Jim Dolan.
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Pablo Torre
What's a better case for Jim Dolan to sell the Knicks than hey, it's never going to get better. Go out in a blaze of charity and goodwill as the city is rioting on your behalf.
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Stephanie Rule
Is there an unlimited amount of mega rich New Yorkers who want to buy the Knicks?
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Pablo Torre
I mean, this is, this is what I want to discuss.
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Stephanie Rule
So like, like if own. If owning a sports team is the ultimate, ultimate vanity project for a super wealthy person, owning the Knicks is like,
- [06:42]
Pablo Torre
it's the number one most valued asset, I would argue for sure. Because by the way, the MSG is a sellout regardless whether the Knicks are good. It's, it's gate attendance is, is always an inelastic demand because it's New York City. And now you have the fact that
- [06:59]
Stephanie Rule
they're actually good, but even when they're not good, it's super cool.
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Pablo Torre
Yes, but the people who show up at the Garden, right, those faces that you see that Stephanie Rule actually recognizes because it's all of these masters of the universe, these captains of industry. One of the reason. Tim Miller, thank you for being here, by the way.
- [07:17]
Bill Simmons
Good to be here, baby.
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Pablo Torre
Steph, Stephanie Rule love being here. Stephanie knows rich people.
- [07:23]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
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Pablo Torre
Well, Tim.
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Bill Simmons
And it kind of enjoys their company, which is a big difference between me and Stephanie. Talking about sports team ownership and being in corporate boxes is the thing that makes me feel the most anti capitalist. To this example. My friend has the box at the LSU Tigers game and always invites me and I'm like, if I'm Gonna go to Baton Rouge on a Saturday night and have some whiskey and watch a football game. I wanna be with the people. I wanna be among the people. I want somebody to spill their beer on me. I wanna high five a child that's up past his bedtime. I wanna cuss at the other team and say sttdb, you know, and I don't want to to sit around and like have people asking me like, what about the tariffs in a fleece vest? I don't want to hear about the tariffs in a fleece vest, you know, and like that. That is kind of your world though. And you're good at navigating it though, because they'll bring up the tariffs and then you'll make a little off color joke and like you'll have a tariffs take. You navigate it very well.
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Pablo Torre
Wow. How did that scouting report feel to you?
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Stephanie Rule
I don't think that's the case. I don't think I just make it. I don't think I've ever made an off call joke. The funny thing about, I would actually say corporate boxes. You see, when they've built all these new arenas, they're trying to make corporate boxes closer to the people because there's nothing worse, right? Like if you think about going to the coolest restaurant out there, but saying, we got the private room, it blows. Because it's like you're at this amazing place with the best energy ever and you're sitting in an insulated box. So I think you're talking about two different things. The fan experience. The is less exciting and less fun if you're sitting in an isolated area. But you're also making the point. If you're going to a game, if you're going to a concert, you're there to experience that art, that sport, that live event. You sure as don't want to talk about EBITDA and profit margins.
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Bill Simmons
I don't want to talk about EBITDA ever, actually.
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Stephanie Rule
Ever.
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Bill Simmons
I hate the word ebitda. Is that a word?
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Stephanie Rule
No, it's not a word, it's an acronym.
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Pablo Torre
Yes, but the idea that Steph is the type of person who goes to the Milken Conference, in which there are lots of NBA owners and lots of billionaires and there is this conversation around. So we are winning right now. We being this non monolithic class of extraordinarily connected, wealthy and informed people in the world of finance, I have to say that that way. Finance, yeah. Steph, part of the reason I wanted to have you here with me and Tim is because the Mentality of these folks who are at that conference, this global conference, the people who are in these NBA arenas and elsewhere. How do you describe them to people who are not decades steeped in finance?
- [10:01]
Stephanie Rule
I think the thing that's amazing right now is the deference and latitude they give the president. And sort of before now, one could easily argue part of what makes America so exceptional is that we respect the rule of law and is that we have three separate but equal branches of government. And you've got all these business leaders over the last few decades, more and more who've spoken out publicly, who say, you know, like we're leaders in culture, in business, it's our fiduciary to explain the way the world works. And suddenly the cat got their tongue. Because now you've got a president who continues to push boundaries and blow through things. I mean, we do a segment on our show, White House for Sale. There's an unlimited amount of content.
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Pablo Torre
It's so hard to pick in this talk.
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Stephanie Rule
We're long past the days of, let me tell you, the stocks that Paul Pelosi traded yesterday. And let's talk about closing the carried interest loophole.
- [11:00]
Bill Simmons
That'd be nice though. We could still do that.
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Stephanie Rule
I'd love to talk about all those things and we always have. But the latitude they're giving this administration. And when you talk to people, part of it is they're intoxicated by the access they have. They can call this president, they can call Howard Lutnick and get what they want and get what they need. What's amazing to me is that they think they're going to get some sort of long term loyalty from this president. He shows it day in and day out, whatever serves him today. I mean, look at John Cornyn. John Cornyn. Look at Bill Cassidy sitting there with egg on their face. What killed me two weeks ago was when Bill Cassidy, a minute after he loses his primary is like, oh, by the way, I'm not feeling good about that war in Iran. Really, Bill, what changed in the last 48 hours about the situation in Iran other than you losing?
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Pablo Torre
Right. These are senators, United States senators.
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Stephanie Rule
A business leader would, though they won't make the argument out loud, they would say, who do they have to answer to? Right. Their fiduciary responsibility. They need to make sure their customers are still going, you know, doing business with them. Their employees aren't quitting and their shareholders are happy. So they would argue that that trifecta is their most important triangle. And it doesn't behoove them to speak out against the President.
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Bill Simmons
So Kat got my tongue. Makes sense. But then last week I was in a cross country flight to California.
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Stephanie Rule
That's how that works.
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Bill Simmons
And I was stuck sitting there watching cable news, which is great. We honor cable news. We're on cable news. But like, personally, I usually don't watch like hours and hours in a row. Right, But I was watching.
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Stephanie Rule
No, you just watch 11 to 12.
- [12:28]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I just watch 11 to 12 on staff and then whatever's on moving
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Stephanie Rule
to 9 to 11am that's right, whatever's right before me. Yes.
- [12:35]
Bill Simmons
And if Pablo Texas, he's gonna be on. But that's usually, that's about it. And so I'm watching cnbc and it was just by accident that it was the day that Andrew Ossorkin is interviewing Bezos. And the cat got your tongue. Like I said, I understand if Bezos is just like, you know, it's kind of crazy over there. I got all these businesses, I've got the new wife, I've got the Venice wedding and like, I've got my yacht. And I'm just gonna focus on that. You know, that couldn't be me, really. I like to yap, but I would understand that. But he didn't do that. He goes on with Andrew Ross Sorkin and he's like, you know, Trump's really mellowed, I think.
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Stephanie Rule
No, it's not.
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Bill Simmons
And you gotta hand it to him. He's more discipline, he's more disciplined.
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Stephen A. Smith
I'm comparing him to his first term and I think he is a more mature, more disciplined version of himself than he was in his first term. And, you know, so he's. Again, I've, I've worked with all the presidents, I will work with all the presidents, you know, and I hope to do that going forward if they'll have me. But it's. We need our business leaders to provide input into the administration. Regardless of who the President is, he
- [13:45]
Bill Simmons
has a couple good ideas. And when he has good ideas, you really have to hand it to him. And I'm like, what? Why are you doing. Like that is humiliating.
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Pablo Torre
But just because this is the decoding I want to do. In your view, Steph, when Jeff Bezos is saying stuff like that, he is doing it because he is there also transacting.
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Bill Simmons
Or maybe he agrees or maybe he really likes Trump.
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Pablo Torre
I'm trying to calibrate my sinister because
- [14:08]
Bill Simmons
I think you might really like him.
- [14:10]
Stephanie Rule
So I would say a lot of them like that they have someone to call. I think a lot of them would say they like that, they share an idea and maybe they get something out of it. But I think Jeff Bezos is unique in that. To me, his biggest, most important business or gaping hole is Blue Origin. Okay. Blue Origin is pun intended. Light years behind SpaceX. Right. This is costing gazillions of dollars. They don't have nearly the amount of government contracts or relationship with the government. SpaceX does. And so he needs to make sure he's in good standing with the president. Right. Days after the Melania documentary debuted. Right. Brett Ratner produced Amazon, paid tens of millions of dollars. Days after, who rolls up to Blue Origin headquarters? Pete Hegseth with Jeff Bezos shaking his hand. Right. Remember?
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Bill Simmons
And Bezos talked about how that was a good business decision in the same interview, and that wasn't quite right. Actually. It did lose 59 million, which might be nothing to pay. So that's kind of a lot of change.
- [15:13]
Stephanie Rule
59 million is chump change. If you. In his mind, right. During Trump's first term, Jeff Bezos was a target of Donald Trump. Right. Amazon was a target of Donald Trump. Bezos was a target of Donald Trump. I actually think it's why he continues to own the Washington Post. When people are like, he doesn't want to own the Washington Post. He's not interested. He knows that the Washington Post and the media is so important to Trump. And so to be in good standing with Trump, I would say in his mind, being in the safe zone with Trump is good for him and good for his business. Now you might say he's one of the richest men in the world. We could lose our democracy ever. We could lose our country. Doesn't that Trump all of this? And that's a totally fair argument to be made.
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Bill Simmons
And to me, the other. The psychology thing I'm more interested in, because you understand the money, I understand what these guys are motivated by. That's why they're the richest people in history. But these guys are all so sensitive to criticism from everybody besides Trump. And it is so. I hate to use the P word for the second time on the podcast, but we can say it again. Thanks to Donald Trump winning. That's what the finance guy said. We can say the R word. We can say again. It makes me feel like that they're. It's just like you could tell how sensitive he was to the Washington Post criticism in that interview with Andrew Ross Sorkin. It's like all of these media journalists are making fun of me and saying we're not doing a good job. Like, what am I supposed to do, run a charity?
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Stephen A. Smith
If I do my job right, right, the value to society and civilization from my for profit companies will be much, much larger, right than the, than the good that I do with my charitable giving.
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Bill Simmons
He got very defensive in his backup. Donald Trump spent four years like making fun of how he looked like giving him a bad nickname. And now he grovels back to him like what's the point of having fuck you money?
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Pablo Torre
But the thing that I think is most immediately actionable when it comes to who's even persuadable anymore. What should people be aware of economically in terms of just like the big headlines, it's the fact that we're talking on the Same morning, Thursday, May 28th, when ProPublica releases this story. Quote, the White House intervened to get a $620 million deal for a company tied to Donald Trump Jr. And this is where I just read some ProPublica. When the Pentagon announced a $620 million loan last year to a small North Carolina startup linked to Donald Trump Jr. Defense officials and the company tried to tamp down suspicions of cronyism. The president's oldest son said through a spokesperson that he wasn't involved. The the Pentagon said Trump Jr. Played no role in the record setting deal. The startup's founder told reporters that his company, Vulcan Elements, received no political favoritism. But interviews in Defense Department records reviewed by ProPublica show that the request to loan hundreds of millions of dollars to the firm linked to Trump Jr. Was made by Peter Navarro, a White House adviser to President Donald Trump and a friend of Trump Jr's. And the reason all of this is particularly, I would say, relevant to what the public attention might be trained on is that there have been lots of stories about corruption and quid pro quoing and transactionality. But this particular story is apparently the first time that the awarding of a contract from a federal agency has been directly linked to White House intervention. People from the White House apparently, according to sources in the story, said, quote, we have to get this done. And Peter Navarro, for those not familiar, is also a guy who appeared on Don Jr's show on Rumble to say this. Your father has done more and I
- [18:56]
Peter Navarro
guess it's nine months now than
- [19:02]
Stephen A. Smith
presidents
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Peter Navarro
do in two terms.
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Stephen A. Smith
Well, Peter, as always, thank you very much for what you're doing in there. Thank you for what you've done to yourself and to your family standing up for us. Guys. Make sure to check out. I went to prison so you won't have to. By Senior Counsel for Trade Peter Navarro, just a great friend, a great patriot, great American. Peter, thanks very much. I look forward to seeing you again soon, buddy.
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Bill Simmons
Thanks, my brother, for being there in
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Peter Navarro
my hardest of times when my back
- [19:33]
Pablo Torre
was against the wall. You had my back, brother.
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Stephen A. Smith
It's my honor, my friend. Thank you.
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Pablo Torre
But Peter Navarro, just for those who are unfamiliar with his work, how should we remind people who this guy is?
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Stephanie Rule
So I'm going to quote, without naming the person's name, a member of Trump's first term who said, at best, Peter Navarro is a wackadoo and a kook. Peter Navarro was discovered by Jared Kushner during Trump's first term because he did a Google or an Amazon search looking for someone and anyone out there whose views on trade and tariffs were in line with Donald Trump's. And after digging and climbing and going
- [20:17]
Bill Simmons
through and around the bank, like 1997 or something.
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Stephanie Rule
Correct. In 1997. Where in the book he quotes fake economists who are named. Like, if you take the name Peter Navarro and mix up the letters, that's the names of the people who he had fake quotes in the book.
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Pablo Torre
Ron Vara.
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Stephanie Rule
There you go.
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Pablo Torre
Ron Vara.
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Stephanie Rule
Ron Vara. Okay.
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Bill Simmons
Navarro.
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Pablo Torre
Ron Vara.
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Stephanie Rule
So they then bring Peter Novara. Real season Trump administration. And let me be clear, he's an economist. Did you see him work with Steve Mnuchin? Steven Mnuchin said absolutely not. Did you see him work with Gary Cohn? Nope, he did not. They had to relegate him to go work in the Commerce Department under Wilbur Ross, who and Wilbur may or may not have known that Peter Navarro was even there. The problem isn't necessarily, in many of these cases, the government getting involved in businesses. And in some cases it is. The problem is bet your bottom dollar that you check. And somehow the Trump family or close associates are making money hand over fist in it.
- [21:21]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. And I've heard from people in business world who just are like, you know, we decided to make Don Jr. A strategic advisor because we figured, like, that could help us get a government contract. Like, this is.
- [21:33]
Stephanie Rule
Don Jr. Is an advisor to both Kalshee and Polymarco. Does anyone realize how. And it was funny because I.
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Bill Simmons
And the administration's trying to interfere. Minnesota is trying to ban prediction markets in their state. Back when I was a Republican, that's how things were as laboratories of democracy. If red states wanted to do one thing, blue states wanted to do another, that was pretty essential to what the worldview was. And now the administration is trying to intervene to prevent Minnesota from passing a law for Their state. Well, I wonder why. Maybe it's because the president's son is.
- [22:05]
Stephanie Rule
When I was at NBA All Star Weekend, they had a tech conference the day leading into the weekend. And I interviewed Kalshee, Polymarket, FanDuel DraftKings on stage and before. I can't remember whether it was polymarket or Kalshee, but it was someone on their team. And I brought up. It was off stage, but I brought up like, so, you know, Don Jr advising both your companies. And the person was like, oh, he didn't invest much money. I'm like, no, Sherlock. I didn't think he wrote you guys a big fat check. Like, no one thought that. Whatever equity stake you've given him, whatever advisory role, I don't think he's had to reach into his pocket one single day. What you guys are doing is paying him, is giving him some upside, so you get no regulation and a clear path to build your mega business, which is exactly what's happening.
- [22:57]
Bill Simmons
Can we add one more story that was from last night that I have to get off my chest? Me and stuff we're talking about on the way in, Please. Do you follow the account? Unusual Whales?
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Pablo Torre
I do.
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Bill Simmons
Unusual Whales is, you know, not, you know, I don't know if they have the same vetting process that ProPublica does, but they've done some good analysis and kind of like a key account and like, prompting like the Pelosi tracker and this idea that too many, you know, members of Congress are investing, which is
- [23:22]
Stephanie Rule
true, both sides of the aisle.
- [23:24]
Bill Simmons
But the story about Trump's investing, that. That came out. My colleague Joe Perdicone crunched the numbers on this. Trump has invested more money this year in the stock market than all members of the House and Senate did combined last year in 12 months. This was just for the first quarter. So in the first quarter of this year, Trump's invested more than the entire Congress did last year. So if you're concerned about Congress investing in the stock market and the corruption, you would think you would be concerned about Donald Trump. Here's this one from last night.
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Pablo Torre
Dell.
- [23:55]
Bill Simmons
And you might know that Michael Dell himself put money into. What is it? The Trump.
- [23:59]
Stephanie Rule
The baby bonds.
- [24:00]
Bill Simmons
The baby bonds. The Trump bonds. So he put his own money into something that Trump got to put his
- [24:05]
Stephanie Rule
name on a huge amount of money that can serve a huge port that would be great for lots of people.
- [24:10]
Pablo Torre
So these are the Trump accounts in which he's going to give 25 million eligible children, apparently.
- [24:15]
Bill Simmons
But again, in a free country, you would call them Baby bonds, you'd call them something else. You wouldn't name them after Dear Leader. They're not Kim Jong Un bonds or something.
- [24:22]
Stephanie Rule
And let me tell you, so when I ask people like in the investment community about this, they all roll their eyes and they're like, ah, you gotta play ball. It is what it is.
- [24:30]
Bill Simmons
Not really. We've been, it's the 250th year of the country. We've never done this before. Business leaders have managed to succeed and make money and have good EBITDA without putting the President's name and face on everything that they did throughout all of history. So that's actually not true. Anyway, here's the Dell story. Dell just won a five year, $9.7 billion Pentagon software agreement for the US military. Now, I don't know about you guys, maybe the Dell's the best company for that. I haven't used any Dell products in quite a while now. I have to imagine there are probably other competitors in this space. Before they got that $9.7 billion contract, Trump bought Dell multiple times since February 10th for more than 5 million. So Trump has put more than 5 million into Dell right before they got the contract. And in case you're thinking, ah, you know, maybe that's a coincidence, maybe, you know, Trump's financial adviser is focused on that. At the blind trust. On May 8, right before the contract was received, Trump said, so go out and buy a Dell.
- [25:32]
Stephen A. Smith
They're great.
- [25:33]
Pablo Torre
Dude, you're getting a Dell.
- [25:35]
Stephanie Rule
Not the Singer Dell, the stock.
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Bill Simmons
It's like the unusual Rails, right? It's unusual. I think it's a little more than unusual. It's right there, it's text.
- [25:45]
Pablo Torre
But to now complete the circle, right? So this deal with the Rare Earths Vulcan, which is based in North Carolina, estimates of its valuation grew tenfold after the deal was announced. And Trump Jr. Don Jr's venture capital firm took a stake of undisclosed size in Vulcan about three months before the Pentagon announced the deal.
- [26:05]
Stephanie Rule
So this is not merely just got his room upgraded on his honeymoon. He just went up to the presidential suite after that.
- [26:11]
Pablo Torre
But, but my point being that this is not merely do this favor, my friend. It's like they're actively profiting in ways that anybody who wants to say, and I get the instinct all of these Ms. Now people crying wolf is just sort of like the wolf is on the table right now and it's just like showing you its fucking portfolio and it's like, I don't know, so what are we waiting for?
- [26:35]
Bill Simmons
And honestly like, think about all the coverage Pelosi got. I just, I was looking at the Dell thing last night and I was like, media criticism gets kind of tired at this point. But just, you know, if this was Mitt Romney or if this was like, you know, Nancy Pelosi, it really would be leading the nightly news type thing. Like it would be leading David Muir. It'd be the front page of the newspaper, there'd be investigators, there'd be follow ups, like, wait a minute, how did Dell get the contract? Like, why did you say invest in them? And it's like Trump has now created this bubble where it seems like he's very public and it seems like he's doing a lot of media stuff, but he has all of these like Newsmax and you know, Mike Lindell TV people ask him questions. So he doesn't get questions from real reporters. There's a lot of other news crazy happening, like, you know, the war in Iran, et cetera, or him going to the NBA Finals. It's hard to decide which corruption to pick.
- [27:23]
Stephanie Rule
The idea though that people don't know or don't care, I don't think is true. I think the investment community is sort of like, they're making so much money and it's working out so well. They're just like, if you can't beat them, join them. And they're the ones who are panicked. They're like, ugh, there are these crazies, like, mom, dummy, who's coming for us? Blah, blah, blah. I would argue no, it's the mega wealthy getting mega wealthier, right? If you take the Forbes 200 at the end of the Biden administration and obviously they were really rich. They were on the Forbes 200 and look at their net worth now. It has exploded. That's not the case for most other people. And so what's amazing to me is they kind of look at this anti capitalism sentiment. Like these people are crazy, like the anti capitalists. The eat the rich sentiment is so real and visceral in this country. Right? Like I lived in New York and I worked on Wall street during the Occupy Wall Street. This is that tenfold. And I think what they don't realize is as much as you like making all this money during the Trump administration, the more this mega grift is happening, the more the other side is going to come for Capitol Hill.
- [28:33]
Bill Simmons
Can I just rant about this for a second? Go ahead.
- [28:35]
Pablo Torre
I want to say one thing before Tim rants, which is the notion that they're coming for capitalism. The people truly dismantling capitalism are these people right here?
- [28:46]
Stephanie Rule
This is the point.
- [28:47]
Pablo Torre
Capitalism requires competition and the rule of law as a set of regulatory governance practices. And when the people are like, this is not the free market, it's not capitalism. This is like classic corruption autocrat shit.
- [29:05]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [29:05]
Pablo Torre
And when people come for capitalism, it's because you people did not actually defend it.
- [29:10]
Stephanie Rule
They're turning me into an interesting in a nutshell, right? Like, I love free markets. I'm as pro capitalism as they come. What's actually transpiring isn't that.
- [29:28]
Pablo Torre
Who among us hasn't wanted to own a business, but assumed it would take quitting your job or managing a huge team to do so with another nine? That's not the case. There are nearly 50 million golfers in the US right now, with millions of new players entering the game every year. And what's really interesting is that there are now more people playing off course golf than traditional on course rounds. The company was co founded by two busy dads who just wanted to make golf easier to fit into real life by creating the ideal indoor golf experience. Open 24. 7 self service with private simulator suites and hourly bookings with memberships available but not required. And the best part is that their A9OS technology handles bookings, access, monitoring and reporting. They even cover 24. 7 customer support for franchisees. The bottom line is that another 9 has created a way for you to own a franchise with no staff in a booming industry without leaving your day job. So if you've ever been curious about entrepreneurship, this is worth a look. Explore your path to entrepreneurship and visit another9.com to see if your territory is still available. That's a N O t H e r n I n e.com and be sure to let them know PTFO sent you. Right now you're probably listening to this podcast on a wireless network. The same wireless network that you and all your friends use to swipe, scroll and hopefully download the latest episode of Pablo Torre finds out. But if you're a first responder, you should not have to compete with myvoice to get a clear signal. And that is exactly why AT&T built FirstNet, a clear wireless lane built with and for first responders. So in an emergency, first responders get there first. Because a network that's not just for anyone helps everyone. To learn more, go to firstnet.com or visit an AT&T store for details. Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls Podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [31:37]
Stephen A. Smith
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball, but you can call me the Smash Daddy.
- [31:41]
Pablo Torre
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [31:50]
Stephen A. Smith
That's right. Hey. Hey. So each week, you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to Single chapter.
- [31:55]
Pablo Torre
And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [32:02]
Stephen A. Smith
News flash, I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find fantasy fan fellas wherever you get your podcasts.
- [32:17]
Pablo Torre
I think the point is, yes, there is and has been corruption in government under Joe Biden, under every presidency. But right now, we're talking about true tonnage in a way that is unprecedented. It's like people don't know what a billion is relative to a million. Even that very basic math question is, like, hard to fully grasp. And in the same way we're looking at this again, this giant wolf on the table who is stealing all this money and allegedly and laughing is everybody is just not only complicit, but also profiting.
- [32:54]
Stephanie Rule
Okay, so then here's the question. Tell me the name of the Democrat who would like to be in leadership or who is running for office, who is writing an op ed or who is coming on television and saying, this is what's happening. It's deeply unethical. It's anti democratic. It is currently legal. Here's what I am going to do. Here's what the Democratic Party is going to do if you vote for us in the midterms and we regain control. Tell me the name of the Democrat who's laid that out for us.
- [33:25]
Bill Simmons
I'm not. Just really quick. I'm not sure it's all legal. I mean, some of this is.
- [33:29]
Stephanie Rule
I'm even giving them the benefit of the doubt. Right? And saying, Right. I'm trying to be, like, as generous as I am in this. Right.
- [33:34]
Bill Simmons
I'm just saying it isn't. It isn't actually legal for the UAE to bribe this good president.
- [33:38]
Stephanie Rule
So let's go even further. Let's say it's a foreign money. Fine. Then let's say this is illegal. And come November, if you vote for me, this is what we're going to do.
- [33:46]
Bill Simmons
Look, this is gonna be the job of the Oversight Committee. Robert Garcia was really good on Epstein. I think it's gonna be his job in the House, who is the big name Democrat that has taken this on? Like, there isn't one. And they should. And I don't understand why. And I think it's really their job in 2027.
- [34:01]
Pablo Torre
How to persuade is the question. How do you message this?
- [34:04]
Bill Simmons
They need to say, by the way, he's not gonna be in charge forever. And if you're one of these rare earth companies or if you're Dell and you think that you're gonna have a government contract in 2029, well, you've gotta come turn over all of your documents right now. And that's their job. In 2027.
- [34:19]
Stephanie Rule
JP Morgan was one of the only massive companies that didn't write a big check for the ballroom. And Jamie Dimon said publicly, on the record, I'm not gonna write a check for the ballroom, because when there's a new administration, they will come for me. Because this is. I don't know if he said bribery, but he said something along the lines of, this will not pass the sniff test. I don't want to touch it. Life is long. This person won't be president forever. Moments after he said that is probably when Trump said, I'm suing you.
- [34:46]
Pablo Torre
Well, but this is the whole thing has, like, a spirit Halloween after October 31st kind of vibe. It's like everyone knows that this is the last days. It kind of feels that way. And those who are not acting as such are trying to get all these discounts on these costumes that they may never wear again. This is the thing, though. It's like, who is actually playing the longer game and who is merely taking the cash also available on this table?
- [35:17]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [35:18]
Pablo Torre
And so we're left at this moment, and we don't even have time to really get into this, but we're left with a vacuum of moral, let alone legal and ethical leadership. And so it turns out that the literal Pope ends up being this person that everyone's like, is the Pope now a truly radical figure? Because he's talking about in some way regulating the masters of the universe. And it's like, how refreshing that there is someone who is not bought and sold by this administration, who is not sensitive to the same pressures as everyone else in this country, whether they trying to figure out, okay, how do I. How do I increase my growth?
- [36:04]
Stephanie Rule
Pope is not radical. This whole idea that he's being painted as such is nonsensical. And so I think when people try to make that argument, you just have to take them back to facts. And that's the thing with Quote, unquote, going after Trump. The truth isn't bias, it's just the truth. Some people just don't want to hear it. And so as it relates to what the Pope is trying to do, the Pope is trying to raise our level of decency. Right. The Pope devoted his adult life, most of his adult life, to serving the poor in Latin America, this boy from Chicago. And I just think we have to keep going back to just covering the facts and the truth, because it's all right there. And what we just need to do is show it to the American people. And what the Democrats need to do is not just say, Trump's sucks. They need to say, here's the path forward and here's what we're going to offer.
- [36:56]
Bill Simmons
I love that the libs are coming home to God. We could maybe use good. Joe Biden was Catholic, but kind of talked about it more earlier in his career. The Dems could use a 20, 28 person that talks a little bit about God.
- [37:08]
Stephanie Rule
The Pope doesn't talk about God that much. What the Pope talks about is decency and living in service of others.
- [37:13]
Bill Simmons
The interesting thing about the Pope, and I think why he's resonating Pablo, is in part because of this moral vacuum of leadership. We're going through this period where everybody feels like, screw it. Why do I have to, you know, care about ethics like this? You know, the masters of the universe, the big tech CEOs, the president of the United States, like, all get away with whatever they want. Like, maybe that should be my model. Like, the Pope is offering this counter model. The other thing that the Pope is doing is at some ways, he like, quasi codes, liberal, but he's like, he's still the Pope. Right. He's still pro life. You know, this is what I mean. Yeah. He still, you know, has all these values that are small c. Conservative. Right. Whether it be family values or traditional values or eternal, you know, kind of going back through history values.
- [38:00]
Pablo Torre
He's literally the head of the Catholic Church.
- [38:02]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. He's not jumping on fads. Right.
- [38:05]
Pablo Torre
That's the glory of it, is that it doesn't need to be coded left.
- [38:08]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. It gives him, like, I do think that credibility that we have flattened everything, particularly in the last 10 years, into, like, oh, you're a MAGA or you're an anti maga. And it's like, you can dismiss the. The comments of somebody that is in the other tribe, even if they're making sense as part of this, like, never ending, you know, online political forever war that we have. And like he's not part of it, right.
- [38:33]
Pablo Torre
He levitates above it largely the Magnifica humanitas, which is the encyclical. It's about AI. And that's incredibly important and its own, of course, forever series. But the thing that I loved that Pope Leo XIV wrote was quote.
- [38:51]
Stephanie Rule
Did you read all 22000 words or did you have chat GPT?
- [38:54]
Pablo Torre
I certainly did not have chatGPT. Summarize it. I did the thing I did while going to Catholic school growing up, which is I selectively skimmed. But this is the part that I
- [39:04]
Bill Simmons
wrote a whole essay on. The one part that you just.
- [39:07]
Pablo Torre
And. And here is the part. The value of persons, however, does not depend on what they achieve or produce. There are rights that apply to everyone simply by virtue of being human. The various, it goes on to write, the various kinds of job insecurity, fragmented career paths and automation must not be evaluated solely in terms of efficiency, but in relation to the dignity of the worker, the right to sufficient remuneration, and the genuine possibility of participating in society. End quote. Which in a normal year, normal administration kind of reads maybe cliche, but in this context even. We just spent all this time talking about talking not about profit and growth and the Green Arrow feels relatively radical and like the F. Pope, like we don't need, I would say, for this to be a Democrat owned issue. My hope is that this is maybe the most basic test that we are taking and also failing because it turns out the Pope is. He's seizing on ground that people are.
- [40:14]
Stephanie Rule
But then let decency be the nonpartisan issue that actually helps political leaders or people running for office or business leaders rise above this and it's available for
- [40:27]
Pablo Torre
them to take, is my point. Yes, this territory, Tim, is basically open
- [40:32]
Bill Simmons
for them and they can do it by. Even if they've made mistakes before. As a fallen person, myself as a sinner, here's my favorite part.
- [40:40]
Pablo Torre
Is someone going to hell? What is.
- [40:41]
Bill Simmons
Here's my favorite part.
- [40:42]
Stephanie Rule
If a sinner today, you don't have to be a sinner tomorrow.
- [40:45]
Bill Simmons
That's right.
- [40:45]
Stephanie Rule
And Catholics like Pablo and I, here's the best thing. All cradle Catholics.
- [40:49]
Bill Simmons
All cradle Catholics. Are you going to church on Sunday, though? We'll talk about it after. For an algorithm, an error is a flaw to be corrected. For a person, however, an error can be a catalyst for profound change. A person's future is not calculable, but depends on one's freedom elevated by the inexhaustible grace of God and on the relationships cultivated. I love that we can all grow. Acast Powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.
- [41:30]
Knox
Do you like being educated on things that entertain but don't matter? Well, then you need to be listening to the Podcast with Knox and Jamie Every Wednesday we put together an episode dedicated to delightful idiocy to give your brain a break from all the serious and important stuff.
- [41:42]
Jamie
Whether we're deep diving a classic movie, dissecting the true meanings behind the newest slang, or dunking on our own listeners for their bad takes or cringy stories, we always approach our topics with humor and just a little bit of side eye. And we end every episode with recommendations on all the best new movies, books,
- [41:56]
Knox
TV shows or music. To find out more, just search up the Podcast with Knox and Jamie wherever you listen to podcasts and prepare to make Wednesday your new favorite day of the week.
- [42:08]
Bill Simmons
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- [43:25]
Jamie
from New York Times Cooking. We've got tons of easy weeknight recipes and I'm gonna make two of my favorites for you today. For my five ingredient Creamy Miso pasta, you just take your starchy pasta water, whisk it together with a little bit of miso and butter until it's creamy, add your noodles and a little bit of cheese.
- [43:44]
Pablo Torre
Mm.
- [43:44]
Jamie
It's like a grown up box of Mac and cheese. An easy weeknight recipe that feels like A restaurant quality dish. Next up, I'm making my vegetarian mushroom shawarma pitas. This recipe is just built for efficiency. You toss your mushrooms and red onion in your spices, throw them in the oven. By the time they're done, your sauce is ready, you've chopped your cabbage, and you're ready to assemble. It feels crazy that something that tastes this complex and looks this colorful and beautiful is actually really easy to make and takes just 20 minutes of active time. It's just delicious. New York Times cooking has you covered with easy dishes for busy weeknights. Find these recipes and more@nytcooking.com Smells so good.
- [44:32]
Pablo Torre
My favorite clip, maybe of the last year, speaking of Christ and its opposite,
- [44:38]
Bill Simmons
was it on the Bulwark podcast?
- [44:39]
Pablo Torre
And his opposite, it was actually in an interview with noted conservative Ross Douthat. And this was Peter Thiel, one of these masters of the universe, who I just want to remind you, did say this.
- [44:54]
Stephen A. Smith
I guess where I end up is I still think we should be trying AI and that the alternative is just total stagnation. So, yeah, there's sort of all sorts of interesting things can happen with, okay, maybe drones in a military context are combined with AI and, okay, this is kind of scary or dangerous or dystopian or it's going to change things. But if you don't have AI, wow, there's just nothing going on. AI is better. It's better than the alternative. And the alternative is nothing at all. Because the stat. Look, here's one place where the stagnationist arguments are still reinforced. The fact that we're only talking about AI, I feel, is always an implicit acknowledgement that but for AI, we are, like, in almost total stagnation. You're deeply invested in Palantir, in military technology, in technologies of surveillance, in technologies of warfare and so on. Right. And it just seems to me that when you tell me a story about the Antichrist coming to power and using the fear of technological change to sort of impose order on the world, I feel like that Antichrist would be maybe be using the tools that you were building. Right? Like, wouldn't the Antichrist be, like, great? You know, we're not going to have any more technological progress. But I really like what Palantir has done so far. You would prefer the human race to endure. Right? You're hesitating. Well, I. Yes. I don't know. I would. I would. This is a long hesitation, long hesitation. There's so many questions. And should the human race survive?
- [46:38]
Pablo Torre
I mean, this whole thing goes on like that for a while. I am the person who is warning you about the Antichrist. I am also the person who is bringing you artificial intelligence. I'm also the person refusing to be regulated. I am also the person who now gets to set the standard on what is godly enough. I mean, this is a symptomatic notion that Peter Thiel is expressing, but he is one of many people.
- [47:04]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [47:05]
Pablo Torre
Who's profiting while also saying, crazy.
- [47:08]
Stephanie Rule
At least the Russian oligarchs just took all of that money and bought really, really, really big boats and the hottest women ever to go on those boats. At least that's all they did. Our oligarchs are saying, we're gonna run so much more than that. That's where I'm like, wait, what? What do you wanna get involved in? I would be okay if it was just a whole lot of money and you were spending it on a boat somewhere in the Mediterranean. But this. This is some scary stuff.
- [47:36]
Pablo Torre
I suppose that we should probably close here by referring to the T shirt that does bring all these topics, the
- [47:43]
Bill Simmons
I am not the Antichrist T shirt, which is raising a lot of questions that are already answered by the shirt.
- [47:48]
Pablo Torre
It's. It's one of the great. Speaking of defying regulation, one of the great unlicensed T shirts that I've seen. The Knicks made the finals on the day the Pope declared a Holy War on AI Monday, May 25, 2026.
- [48:01]
Stephanie Rule
Did someone actually make that T shirt?
- [48:03]
Pablo Torre
There's a human hand that I'm seeing in my version of it, which I guess can be faked quite easily.
- [48:09]
Bill Simmons
At this point, it depends on how many fingers.
- [48:20]
Pablo Torre
Pablo torre finds out is produced by walter averoma, maxwell carney, ryan cortez, juan galindo, patrick kim, neely loman, rob mcrae, matt sullivan, claire taylor and chris tominello. Studio engineering by rd systems. Sound design by andrew bursik. Digital strategy by bailey carlin and andrew northern. Theme song as always, by john bravo. We'll talk to.
- [48:56]
Bill Simmons
Acast Powers, the world's best podcasts. Here's the show that we recommend.
- [49:04]
Knox
Do you like being educated on things that entertain but don't matter? Well, then you need to be listening to the podcast with Knox and Jamie. Every Wednesday, we put together an episode dedicated to delightful idiocy to give your brain a break from all the serious and important stuff.
- [49:16]
Jamie
Whether we're deep diving a classic movie, dissecting the true meanings behind the newest slang, or dunking on our own listeners for their bad takes or cringy stories we always approach our topics with humor and just a little bit of side eye and we end every episode with recommendations on all the best new movies,
- [49:30]
Knox
books, TV shows or music. To find out more, just search up the podcast with Knox and Jamie wherever you listen to podcast and prepare to make Wednesday your new favorite day of the week.
- [49:43]
Bill Simmons
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere acast.com dish has been
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Peter Navarro
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- [50:22]
Bill Simmons
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we I'm Alexander Fairweather, raised by one of the world's
- [50:33]
Jamie
great creative geniuses, John Chamberlain, on his famous foam couches.
- [50:38]
Bill Simmons
Now I'm on the couch again with
- [50:40]
Jamie
today's boldest creative minds for conversations that
- [50:43]
Bill Simmons
will spark your creativity and give you the courage to create something new. On the couch. Launches May 19 with John Gray of Ghetto Gastro, whose food will make you rethink who belongs at the table. Season 1 Daniel Arsham, Alexander Wang, Annabel Selldorf and more. Subscribe wherever you stream and follow along
- [51:05]
Jamie
at John Chamberlain Estate.
- [51:09]
Bill Simmons
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.