← Pablo Torre Finds Out
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.
- [00:07]
B
You a side piece Surprise.
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A
Right after this ad. You're listening to Giraffe Kings.
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C
I have a sandwich that I had to custom build myself, which I did.
- [00:35]
B
Are you. Are you talking about making a sandwich? Do you call it a custom build? When was the last time you fed yourself?
- [00:41]
A
Yo, check out the build on this sandwich.
- [00:43]
C
I did custom build the sandwich, and I can't test it and look at it because of our delay. I've been sitting in place for 15 minutes waiting, and I could have gotten the order myself and checked to make sure that it was right. And now I have to think about it through this entire show, which also does not make my brain happy. You're not catching me in a great moment.
- [01:05]
B
Oh, man. What'd you get? What's your custom build?
- [01:07]
A
Yeah, what do we got? Can we guess? Can we guess? I bet able to. What gives us little faith in our ability to predict David Sampson's whims?
- [01:16]
B
Dominique, I think he got a lunchable.
- [01:18]
A
You got, you got, you got a ham, you got a cheese, you got a little, a little Capri Sun.
- [01:24]
B
He's not going to eat the ham.
- [01:26]
C
Oh, I said literally never ham in my life.
- [01:29]
B
Religious reason.
- [01:30]
A
That's on me.
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C
And Pablo, I am despondent right now.
- [01:34]
A
Yeah, that's on me.
- [01:35]
B
You don't seem like a tuna guy.
- [01:38]
C
Certainly not from a store or restaurant. No, a store or restaurant.
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A
Where the you getting your tuna?
- [01:45]
C
I'll make my own tuna.
- [01:47]
B
Which. You got the tuna from a store?
- [01:50]
C
No, no, I will make tuna from a can with Miracle Whip and Dijon mustard and. And green onion and avocado and cucumber. I will make that obviously, always water and you drain it, but I will never order tuna in a restaurant.
- [02:06]
A
The sandwich so far sounds like it's going to be terrible.
- [02:08]
C
It's amazing. You just haven't figured out what it is.
- [02:11]
A
David, do you want to make the big reveal? What's the big reveal?
- [02:14]
C
It's turkey with Dijon mustard, lettuce, brie, cheddar, onion, cucumber, jalapeno.
- [02:21]
B
Oh, I see. That's a build. Yeah, I didn't realize criticism.
- [02:25]
A
That is the work of a structural engineer.
- [02:28]
B
That's the build.
- [02:31]
C
I don't lie to you guys.
- [02:34]
A
And that in some ways is its own concern. The share and tell topic I brought with both of you guys is this Juan Soto topic. And there is a part of the John Heyman reporting on this he's the guy who's been on top of all of this. He tends to be on top of. Scott Borris represented athletes, if you've been paying attention to the game within the game. But he has great color on this story, David. And so I just want to read a part of the reporting. Of course, Juan Soto, now a New York Met, they outbid the New York Yankees. The Mets paid $760 million over 15 years, a record price. All that stuff is true. But it seems like one thing the Yankees would not budge on, which was startling to me, was the inclusion of a suite, a luxury suite. Quote, the Yankees felt they couldn't give a suite to Soto as part of this deal. When Judge Aaron Judge pays for his suite and even Derek Jeter paid, they were willing to discount a suite of but not alter their precedent. Meanwhile, Steve Cohen, one of the 100 richest men in the world, apparently, quote, didn't give the suite much of a thought. When he has his eyes on a prize, he is singularly focused. And so Juan Soto got the super duper, duper star treatment. And it made me think about the ways in which there is in fact levels of superstar treatment and gifts and benefits and privileges. And both of you guys happen to have, I would say, personal viewpoints, I assume informed by your roles in your past lives.
- [04:20]
C
Let's first say that it was 765 over 15. Let's then say that there is no scenario under which Juan Stto chose the Mets because there was a suite included in the deal. The way these deals are negotiated is that you get to the rider after which is season tickets or suite on the road, meaning a hotel room, whether or not you pay for that or whether you have the player pay for the difference between a regular room in a suite when there's season tickets, where the location is for the player's family, whether it's in the regular family section or elsewhere, all of that is extra stuff. No player that I've ever negotiated with had it as a dispositive moment. You're not including the sweets. It's absurd. And by the way, last thing on this, if the Yankees really were competing to win, all they had to do was gross up the amount that they were paying Sodo and tell stto to buy the suite and stto would have been at par gross up, meaning the price of the suite each year. You can even inclus include what the taxes would have been on that. I've been grossing up people forever. It is normal. So it's thank You, I handed that to you. I'm so glad that you're paying attention because you're not on your phone. So I don't buy into this notion that, that went into the decision making process.
- [05:45]
B
But I think the, the broader point that you. That I think is probably interesting about this conversation is not this specific negotiation, but superstar treatment. And the, what I took out of this particular article was I feel very strongly about organizational culture. And I think part of setting a culture of an organization, particularly in professional sports, is about making it clear what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. And I tend to believe that those things are non negotiable because once you start to bend on those things, you are a bit like compromising the culture. And I think I, I've defined organizational culture for a bunch of different people, a bunch of different times, because I think in sports we talk about culture a lot and we rarely understand it.
- [06:29]
A
Yeah, it feels vague and fluffy when they are.
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C
Till they're not. Dominique. Because I never gave a no trade clause for a long term deal ever, until Giancarlo Stanton and was a deal breaker for him and we gave him a no trade clause. So everything is principled and everything's culture. Until it's not. Until Barry Bonds wants a recliner and you say, come on, nobody has a recliner. Hey, I'm Barry Bonds, all right? We're getting the recliner for you.
- [06:55]
B
A no trade clause is different from recliner. I think a recliner is a better example. But I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm, I'm saying. So first of all, I think it's important to, to like define what culture is in an organization. And I think it's like the acceptable processes and behaviors and those are different from organization to organization. And I think the recliner point is more interesting. The no trade clause to me doesn't bleed into a culture of organization that's just like. I mean, maybe you, you seem to disagree. Go ahead.
- [07:25]
C
I do, Dominique, because think about that as a player, you're paying attention, you know, contractual provisions of all of your teammates. And if we give an advantage to one teammate in the guarant provision that we didn't give to another, they know it in about 45 seconds.
- [07:40]
B
And so maybe that's different in MLB than M, than in football, but I didn't feel that way at all. But I mean, it's, I think it's fair to say that all of your decisions and all of your actions impact your culture to some degree. Some of them Some of them are negligible, and some of them are enormous. And I think you're willing to bend on the negligible ones for players who are worth it. The question is, are you going to bend on the. The big ones? That's where this, the rubber meets the road. In a conversation about Juan Soto or about any organizational culture.
- [08:12]
A
I think it's interesting, though, that Dominique's brain went to a place where mine did, which was. There is something, though, about the furniture that you have to see every day. There's something, David, famously, Barry Bonds had the double wide locker as well. You know, like there. There is a list of examples throughout sports history. I mean, Giannis Antetokounmpo, you might say that Thanasis, his brother, just being around him, getting the other deal, like. So is that a benefit, like an extra wide double locker on the outside?
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B
Absolutely, yes. Having a whole roster spot reserved for your brother. But the funny thing is, anytime you talk to anybody about Thanas Antetokounmpo, and I interviewed him for my show that's more highly rated than yours.
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A
How dare you.
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B
And anytime you talk to anybody about him, they talk about how he was the one who helped to instill and institute the culture of the team that was celebrated when someone was slacking. Even though Thanasis wasn't a high producer, he was the one that would call them to the carpet when someone had to say something to. To Giannis. He was the one who did it. And even though he wasn't a great player, I think I find that incredibly interesting because I would see that as the ultimate. Yeah, it's similar to, like, how right now people see the Bronny situation, right? It's like, oh, well, this organization isn't serious about winning if they're giving a roster spot to a family member. But it's funny because obviously I'm not on that team, but anyone who you talk to who's been on that team and even guys who are gone now who have no reason to, like, protect him would say that, no, he was important to the culture of this team.
- [09:42]
A
What I find so interesting, David, also just to sort of characterize this, it's interesting to think about this as a zero sum game, right? Like in the terms of real estate roster spots, there are only so many of these that can be given out. And so someone is actively not getting something if the super duper duper star is getting it. And your view in terms of a guy who had to worry about, okay, here's the payroll, here's the composition of the clubhouse. Your view was how. How often was that challenged by this privilege?
- [10:13]
C
Almost every year. So the two examples in. In sports or baseball is when you're drafting someone internationally from the Dominican, and the Busconi wants you to take the kid's brother, the kid's cousin, and the kid's second cousin, and you give, you know, 50 grand to each of them just because you want to spend 800 grand to get the good player. And so you're willing to take on all the extra stuff, and it goes all the way to the big leagues, where with Vladimir Guerrero, we had to give a roster spot to his brother, Wilton Guerrero. We even got Wilton Guerrero through arbitration because Vladimir, which is Vladimir Guerrero Junior's father, Vladimir Guerrero, senior Hall of Famer, he had his brother and mother with him in Montreal. They lived together. They ate meals together, and Wilton was part of the package. And so for us, it was necessary until he became too expensive because he was getting service time and not really all that productive.
- [11:11]
A
How was he on the culture? How was. Was he thanosis like, in terms of impacting the culture of your club?
- [11:16]
C
Absolutely not. And it's an amazing thing, what you're saying, Dominique. I had not heard that before. That's a position I would not still value in terms of a roster spot in basketball where there's so few of them. My growing up, there were 11. I think now there's 15 or 16. It's still not very many. That's an amazing piece of real estate. And the whole Bronny thing, don't even get me started. The Lakers. Yeah. And they don't want to.
- [11:42]
A
I don't want to relitigate Bronny, but, Dominique, as somebody who played in the league, how obvious was it on the teams you played for that actually there were guys who were getting stuff that you guys could not dream of getting. Yeah.
- [11:55]
B
I mean, so football is. Is kind of different in that there's the quarterbacks and then there's everybody else, and there's the good quarterbacks, and then there's everybody else. I never played on a team with, like, a Hall of Fame quarterback, but there is something about. And this is a broader cultural thing. There's something about the culture of football that's very different from some. From basketball. I don't know, baseball culture nearly as well or hockey culture, but. But basketball culture, I feel like I know pretty well. And it's very. The hierarchy in basketball culture is obviously very clear and such that it's understood and not bucked against. And there's no shame. There's almost like pride in being that guy who can, who can subvert the rules and who can show up late.
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A
And Joel Embiid, I was going to say, like, famously just got in trouble because Tyrese Maxi was calling him out, allegedly reportedly for having the temerity to show up and treat time as a construct.
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B
Was it mitigated or unmitigated?
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A
It seems like it was increasingly mitigated. Yeah. Yeah.
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B
So, I mean, I know that's a thing and you hear it about all types of great players who have success in football. On the other hand, I've been on teams where guys obviously had like some special treatment, but it was minimally special. Like they didn't have the suite in the hotel when we traveled. They didn't show up. They showed up to meetings five minutes early just like everyone else. And there's a very like team oriented thing about football players where it's like the one thing I remember my rookie year. I'm sorry, go ahead, David.
- [13:25]
C
Do you know what your teammates have when you're traveling?
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B
Yeah.
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C
So you just said that with some certainty. Do you get a room list with the actual room numbers of the players in where they are in the hotel?
- [13:41]
B
No, but I mean, I know where everybody is staying. So there, there's a table put out with all the keys on it with all the numbers on it. The team is pretty big. And then you end up on the same floor as certain guys. Like I've had rooms next to the star players on the teams before. And you guys ever get up and.
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A
Go, you guys ever do a joining room slumber party?
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B
No, we never did a joining room slumber party.
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A
I would do a joining room.
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C
You used to have roommates early on, 30, 40 years ago, players in baseball, they would room with a teammate in a double room. Now the keys are on the table. Dominique. But there's numbers. They put the number. But often it's with names. That's not. Not the real names. They check in under fake names. But you know that if you've got the same la last two numbers as the team president, you know, that's a suite. And so we would fool around with what we do with certain envelopes so the players wouldn't know who has the suite.
- [14:31]
B
We didn't have that situation. I. I imagine that some people and also didn't really care. I think the. That that competitiveness wasn't there. And also like I mentioned, like there was bed check. Like that was. That was one thing. Some people would have bed Check. And we thought at first, when we first got there, everybody had bed check. But of course, like nobody was going into the 32 year old starting quarterback's room and saying, are you there at 11 o'?
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A
Clock?
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B
So there. But they were there at 11 o'.
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A
Clock.
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B
It was like these. We only travel, but so many times. So those were the things that were slightly different. I will say that the, the big advantage that I remember was my rookie year. We were 13 and three. We won in San Diego on New Year's Eve at the Chargers. And we were headed to the flight, headed to the plane because we fly back immediately. Headed to the plane to fly back home. We'd won the division and it was New Year's Eve and Champ was like, we should go to Vegas.
- [15:28]
A
This is Champ Bailey, greatest cornerback, arguably of all time.
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B
Don't argue it, it's a fact. And he was like, we should go to Vegas. And I was like, huh? Okay, tomorrow. He's like, no, from here. I'll go ask coach. I'll see if, if you can come too. And he said, I'll go ask coach. And so he got a private jet. We went from San Diego to Vegas. And I'm celebrated New Year's Eve on the rooftop at TA between the prime minister of a Caribbean nation and Britney Spears, if I remember correctly.
- [15:57]
C
Yeah, where's the button that I can press?
- [16:03]
A
That's great. I.
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B
There's no way that anyone else said, can I stay in this city or can I go to Vegas? That coach would have said, yeah, get your ass on that plane. And would any of us ask? No, it's absurd. But Champ, that's the one thing that I knew that I witnessed in my first year. But from then on, I never really saw it happen much after that. Like every now and then someone would stay if they we played in their hometown, someone would stay to be with their family and then come back on.
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A
Wednesday by the Urban Meyer style. You're saying nothing. Urban, stay over.
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B
No.
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A
You know, when you're the coach of the Jaguars, maybe go to the restaurant that has your name in it.
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B
Never do anything Urban.
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A
You have no room for the Holy Ghost. David, when you're the president of a baseball team, how much were you saying no to stuff? In the flow of a season, when it came to special treatment, there were.
- [16:50]
C
More no's than yeses. But baseball, the baseball season just has a different rhythm than the football season. They're very. You're playing 162 games in 185 days. And that's after 30 spring training games in 34 days. So it is just the grind of the season that the. The stain in cities later, that rarely comes up because there's so few off days during the season. But there's stuff that. Other stuff is where the permission comes. It's in the clubhouse. It's special treatment for guests. It's location of seats. It's things like that that come up. Hotel rooms.
- [17:28]
A
What's the most absurd ask, given this array of possibilities that you hated to get, because it felt like way over the line, but was very common to.
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C
Have a player take both a wife and a girlfriend on a family trip on the plane.
- [17:43]
B
That's. That's amazing.
- [17:44]
C
That was. That was the end of our families traveling with the team.
- [17:49]
A
Wait a minute. So just to spell that out, we.
- [17:51]
C
Had a set of rules. Pablo, you want to find out? We had a whole set of rules that I developed with Larry Binefest about what relationship was required to travel with the team on a family trip. And I said, this is. I can't deal with this.
- [18:05]
A
Wait, you developed a citizenship test for someone's relationship? What was the criteria? What were some of the criteria?
- [18:16]
C
I needed proof of wedding. I didn't want engagement. I didn't want. I needed proof. I'm talking like, proof of wedding.
- [18:22]
A
Engagement wasn't given enough.
- [18:24]
C
No, no engagement.
- [18:26]
A
You need paperwork.
- [18:28]
C
I want paperwork.
- [18:30]
B
So they. Again, this is a different.
- [18:33]
A
Said, I want paperwork with a level of just arousal there that I just.
- [18:38]
C
No, it's a pain in the ass, Pablo, to deal with this. It really was not fun. The traveling secretary would come to me and talk about the layout of where rooms are in the hotel because where players were. This is such a bigger deal than people would think. You have to have girlfriends in a different place than wives. Different floors, different parts of the stadium where. Where people are sitting. Certain family members don't sit near each other. It's a whole megilla.
- [19:05]
B
We're talking girlfriends. So, like, I could understand wives not wanting to be with girlfriends, but we're not talking about wives and girlfriends of the same player.
- [19:16]
C
We're talking. Yes, we are.
- [19:17]
B
Okay. Yeah. No, I mean, we. We had that situation on our teams also in the travel secretary, but it's only eight home games. The travel secretary. You could. I mean, I remember guys having to put people in different spots, and then that becomes an argument, because there is one spot where you get access to friends and family, like the little backst area. And then if you don't get access to that, you recognize that you A side piece. Surprise, surprise. I'm in a 300 level.
- [19:44]
A
Customs stopped you.
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B
And I'm outside. Oh, I don't get the wristband this week.
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A
This is incredible.
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C
Dominique, this is all true and I love that you're backing me on this. And now picture 81 home games.
- [19:55]
B
Yeah, that's. That sounds.
- [19:56]
C
And picture a stadium that's not full. It's a total nightmare.
- [20:00]
B
We are, we are far, far away from the building. Championship culture now just like, just stand afloat. Hopefully we don't have a fight in the stands between wives and girlfriends. That's. That is a lot. The biggest benefit, I think, to like the star players was also a benefit to the team for us in football because football practice is intense. And so that was the thing that stood out where we were like, damn, must be nice. You ain't got to practice today. And it was one, because they were. Had enough credibility, they knew they would be fine. But two, because their bodies were breaking down. So it was like it's kind of a special dispensation. But it also was like, we need you on Sunday, so how about you chill out on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, we give you some drugs on Sunday morning and you go play and then you recover next week by watching film and not practicing.
- [20:53]
A
Right?
- [20:53]
C
Yeah, that's a whole nother thing is trying to discern injury from not wanting to do infield or not wanting to take bp. And so we're monitoring always the trainers and the trainers, training staff. And that's why we mark everything down of any player who walks in and what they say, what's bothering them. We do it both for coverage and workers comp purposes, but also to understand who's just hungover. And so what I would try to do with the players is just say be honest. We don't want to put you on the report if you're just on the training table because you have a headache and your headache is because you were out all night, do it, go sleep in a dark room. But we're only going to put you on the report if you're hurt. So that's a. That's another funny thing that goes on during the course of a season behind the scenes.
- [21:34]
A
How.
- [21:35]
B
How prevalent is that in baseball? Because I. That to me sounds so. And again, it's about the length of the season, but that sounds so absurd to me in the football context. Like any player who did that, it would be like, it would feel like an affront to the team percentage of your schedule. Yeah, guys would be so mad at a guy who showed, like, hey, we gotta work like you showed up to. I've been on the teams where. Where a guy had a drinking problem and showed up to practice drunk all the time, and we wanted him out more than the coaches did. Like, it's our livelihood and. And safety, frankly, is dependent on. And I guess baseball is a very individual team sport. So it's like, all right, that wants to do that with his career. It's not going to impact the way I hit or the way I feel.
- [22:17]
C
Well, some of them. I. I think that if I did the math, I was a president for 208 Sunday games, roughly, if I had a guess.
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B
Nothing's more fun than math. Let's do some more math.
- [22:28]
C
205 of 208. Someone came in hungover on a. For a Sunday game, from a Saturday night to an afternoon game, and. And more than one player. Some players were better. My, my. I love you, Miguel, but. And I've said this to your face, but Miguel Cabrera could hit the ball and he would just aim for the middle ball. And it was just incredible what he.
- [22:49]
A
Was able to do.
- [22:50]
C
I guess other. Other guys were not able to perform when they were hungover.
- [22:55]
A
So I was going to get to that. Just so that. Look, I love you, by the way. We certainly believe that less than we did before.
- [23:03]
C
No, I really do, actually.
- [23:05]
B
Even though you snitched on him, I would.
- [23:07]
A
I was going to wonder aloud about the bottom line performance criterion of just. Hey, is this guy actually just worth it? Right. He's still hitting. He's still the guy we need to give the ball to at the end of LeBron, again, famously. Just to add another example from recent history, remember when Phil Jackson got in trouble for the posse comment, he got in trouble because he was objecting to the treatment that LeBron was begrudgingly given by Pat Riley, who was running the heat. Because LeBron got to dictate his travel schedule, his friends, like his business partner, Maverick Carter, as well as his other associates that he wanted to.
- [23:45]
B
Wrong. He didn't get in trouble because he objected to that. He got in trouble because his.
- [23:49]
A
He used the word that felt like it did not reflect an understanding of the legitimacy of those guys and also the racial history of America in general. All of these things are true.
- [23:57]
C
Thank you for clarifying that, Dominique.
- [23:59]
B
Yeah, you're welcome.
- [24:00]
A
But. But the point being that he's LeBron.
- [24:03]
B
Many jobs of the black man, I got to do everything around here.
- [24:06]
A
That's right.
- [24:07]
C
Player empowerment's a real thing.
- [24:09]
A
Yes. I'm talking about player empowerment.
- [24:11]
C
Right?
- [24:12]
A
And what we're really talking about is superstars getting to dictate terms in a way that reflects their understanding of the scarcity of their talents.
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C
The hardest thing to do is when a player's been empowered and they're really, really worth it. And then time passes and they're not worth it. And it's really hard to claw back the power that you've given the player.
- [24:48]
A
All right, it's time for me to take the wheel back. There's another story, David, that I thought of you when I was reading it because it is titled the Allure of Micro Dosing Ozempic. So there is a whole and Dominique's giving a face that I think is the right reaction when I say, David Sampson, I thought of you when I was reading this story. And the subhead is some people are taking tiny amounts of weight loss medications, hoping to drop pounds while avoiding side effects. Does it work? And the spoiler alert on this is that there is no real solid scientific consensus, but it does seem like there is a community of people that is seeing benefits from this in a way that feels both encouraging because it speaks to, again, the way the body's chemistry and the science of both weight loss and hunger are actually shaped by levers we can pull. But also seems like it's too early to spike the football. We've solved the problem of people struggling to lose weight. And I think of David Dominique, because I don't think a lot of people know this necessarily. And David, forgive me if this is not the intro that you wanted, but weight is something that you personally have had to reckon with, despite the fact that no one would look at you and say, that is a guy who is struggling with weight.
- [26:00]
C
Well, you can't judge a book by its cover. Yes, I have always, I've never been what other people would consider overweight, but I have always had a tremendous body dysmorphia issue. And so I view myself right now actually as not as looking about as bad as you can look at the end of a day like this. So I, I know what you're talking about. And I've looked at all sorts of herbs and all sorts of ways to lose weight, and it turns out that the best way that I ever found to lose weight was to be actually sick and I had a disorder. And it turns out that that's probably not the best plan either. So it's a multi billion dollar industry full of bad plans.
- [26:43]
A
David, when you say you were sick and had a disorder, that Was the way you lost weight. What are you describing there? Just so we can bring people into this conversation.
- [26:52]
C
I was an anorexic for a bunch of years while I was running a professional sports team. While running marathons. I was sick.
- [27:02]
A
When did it develop? When did it develop?
- [27:05]
C
It. It really started when I was very young. I always had this weird view of myself. I'm always. And even as I sit here today, all these years later, all I'm thinking about when I do shows or when I'm in public and when I'm in private, it's every moment that I'm awake is I'm thinking of my stomach. It's all I think about. So if you ever look at me in pictures, I'm often I cross my hands over my front so people can't see. I'm very cognizant of how I look from the back, whether or not I'm flat down by the waist. And when I see a little roll or something like that, it. It. It makes me insane. It's a horrible thing to have what I have. And it was years of therapy. I was down to 117 pounds in a very public job, and I thought, that's the best I've ever looked. And I still look at those photos because they're on Google, and I still view them as the best I've ever looked in my life. And I would. I would run 20 miles and purposely not eat the entire day. And I would. And while running a baseball team, that's how you lose weight. And now I'm about as heavy as I've ever been at about 139. I used to weigh myself about 25 times a day. After. Before and after. Every time going to the bathroom before and after every course of a meal. I mean, I was. I was sick. I really have never talked about that. That's a disappointing thing to say out loud.
- [28:30]
B
I joke about how you have content brain all the time, but I'm not joking. This is the most content brain of all. Content brain we can talk about. It's fine. As long as David is comfortable talking about it.
- [28:40]
A
I don't probably talk about it. Hold on, hold on. David is clearly comfortable enough to want to talk about this.
- [28:46]
B
Okay.
- [28:47]
A
I have a real conversation, real life with David. He can vouch for this. And then I'm reading all these news stories, and I'm like, wait a minute. This is something that I want to talk to Dominique and David about, because David is as described. I am somebody who has had an incredible metabolism and Dominique, I've shared this with you, but it's really. It's really just me calling myself out. You know, it's like, oh, wait a minute, am I pre diabetic now? Because I'm not eating healthily, which is a thing that I have, by the way, last. Last blood test. I've gotten out of it for now simply because I know we're all right, we're all day to day, as they say. But the point being that I am feeling as a dad, like I. When David said I cover my stomach with my arms. You may notice on the YouTube or DraftKings network that I was also doing that for the same reason. And I am realizing my metabolism is. Is done and I need to figure out my own issues with, like, how do I look in public? And Dominique is, of course, a former professional athlete whose physical health has been something he invests in in a rigorous way. And so here we are, three legs of a up tripod. And I just wanted to revel in that for a second.
- [29:58]
B
We reveled.
- [30:00]
C
I've been with you both. And Dominique, you are obviously a very fit, attractive man. And Pablo, I always assumed you were resting your arms, not covering anything. I thought they were on the ledge. I'd say that you look good in butter, there's no question about that. But listen, Pablo, I love you and I love Buttercrew Butterfly, but we. You are not a butter face. But I. This is a serious issue. I hate that we're making light of it. I'm not happy to admit no one wants to talk about this stuff, and I'm. I'm not happy to have to talk about it. It's uncomfortable. But I'll tell you that it's not better because I still think about it every day. Every day, all day. I think about what I look like, how I feel. I'm very hyper aware of every little thing that happens. I used to be a tremendous picker if I had a blemish anywhere. And so I had to wear gloves to stop myself from picking. So I. I'm aware of all these things that people struggle with, and it's not easy. And now I would choose to be a public figure, which I am. But guess what? We're all public figures because of social media. And so even if you're not in the world of media with your feed or your Instagram or Snapchat, there's kids and adults going through this, and it sucks. It just downright sucks. It drains the life out of you. It makes you exhausted to have to be a certain way all the time. And that's the world. And now I'm a part of it.
- [31:37]
A
David, the word you use, which I think is appropriate and by the way, I do want to acknowledge. Right. Like, the reason I find all of this especially interesting is because we are dudes. And this is typically something that women, of course, are socially conditioned to be horrified by, and we've seen many movies about that. This, I think, relatively less so, which is why I. I want to lean into it. But you use the word before, which is dysmorphia, and I think that is a good word for this because it, of course, describes a feeling of profound unease or dissatisfaction, but it also indicates that there is a misalignment of reality and perception. And so when David is the guy. Davidic. Who is analyzing a table of hotel key cards with numbers, and he's guy who is examining a stadium and picking out every little flaw and making sure it's right, it does track that you would turn that same gaze onto yourself in a way that indicates even though you're the guy who also. I don't think you've said this explicitly on this show this bluntly. You're the guy who once ran how many marathons and how many continents in how many days? Right? Seven. In seven and seven.
- [32:40]
C
Well, there are only seven.
- [32:42]
A
Okay.
- [32:42]
C
Well, I'm just saying it's not. I've had more people ask me that. Is that you've been on every continent. Yeah. There's only seven.
- [32:52]
A
I feel like that sort of proved my point, actually, the one I was gesturing towards. But, David, the point being that, of course, you're also that guy. You can't turn it off.
- [33:01]
C
I think there's a lot of people who are just struggle with this. And what the dysmorphia is is that you see something that other people don't see, which is why with you two, I do it all the time, both on and off camera. I'm always testing. Hey, are you sort of hearing what I'm hearing and then reacting how I'm reacting to this? Paavo and I spend hours talking about this, and Dominique and I, we've talked about this sort of thing. That's where the testing comes from. I'm always testing.
- [33:33]
B
Foreign.
- [33:44]
A
I feel like we should. We should go with a bit of a holiday spirit topic, and I want to know the best and worst gifts you guys have received.
- [33:55]
C
I'm ready to go, Dominique.
- [33:57]
A
So this is David's superpower. David, you give him a prompt. He's like, got it in a second. And it makes me think that he has contemplated every question I've ever asked anybody, ever.
- [34:08]
C
But it's not rehearsed.
- [34:09]
A
I know.
- [34:10]
C
Not rehearsed. I've never.
- [34:11]
A
I did not. I did not prep you guys about this.
- [34:13]
B
So I read the other article, getting ready to talk about that, but I'm fine with this. Let's do it.
- [34:17]
A
I think we've talked enough about bodies. Yeah. Spoiler alert.
- [34:20]
B
And locker rooms.
- [34:22]
A
Yes.
- [34:23]
C
My mother and father got me the same desk set three years in a row. The same exact thing when I was in 8th, 9th, and 10th grade. It was a pencil holder. It was a thing where you put your papers on. There were no computers at the time. It was a three piece set. One was for pens and pencils, one was for a stapler, and one was the. The square thing that you put on top of your desk. Three years in a row. Same one.
- [34:53]
B
That's the worst, right? Not the best. That's the worst.
- [34:55]
C
Oh, that's the worst. Yes.
- [34:57]
B
Okay. I was just making sure.
- [34:58]
A
I mean, a little hard to tell sometimes.
- [35:01]
C
Oh, my God. It was horrifying to me at the level of, at the lack of attention to detail or the absolute care.
- [35:11]
A
I believe it's called mens rea when it comes to the criminal law. What is the motive here that you have, you have diagnosed?
- [35:19]
C
Oh, it's lack of. It's just lack of knowing me or lack of paying attention. Lack of care, lack of all that stuff. It's horrifying. It's horrifying. It makes you feel totally unappreciated or loved. It's terrible. It's the same freaking thing.
- [35:33]
A
I do love that the guy who can't stop paying attention to the most microscopic detail is given three years in a row. Same gift as if he wasn't given it the year prior.
- [35:45]
B
So I'm not a big. I'm not a big gift guy. And so I would guess that this is probably also consistent with other things that you felt. Because I don't really consider myself a great gift buyer. I don't really want gifts from anybody in my life, but I do consider myself a good friend, partner, parents, and I consider people around me good to me without giving me any good gifts. Because I. When you ask me that question, I go back to my childhood and think about, like, the Sega Genesis, which, like, had no, had no meaning to me, had no, like, value. It's just like the happiest I remember being. Opening a present was like a Sega Genesis that I really wanted most of the other times, I don't know. At a certain age, I don't really care about gifts. And it's really hard to find a gift that'll grab your attention.
- [36:38]
C
Right.
- [36:39]
A
So I agree that. And I was going to pivot to sort of of how gift giving in adulthood as a parent has been so much not about me anymore, to the point where, like, I can't remember, but I want to go to the Sega Genesis thing for a second because that feeling of, like, unboxing a gift is both something that I, on some level, am chasing, even if I don't totally know it. And I know that others are because the most popular, of course, genre. One of the most popular genres on YouTube, of course, is unboxing videos in which you are watching other people unveiling their gift. And so there is just something about that feeling of being a kid getting a present. And the promise of this is exactly. It's the promise of your emotional needs will be satisfied by this material possession and over time that has been worn down to such a raggedy nub. But at the time, as a fellow Sega Genesis haver, I remember that exact Christmas of being like, oh, my God, this, this, this hedgehog is going to make me happy. And it did for a while. And now as, as an adult, I. I'm like you, Dominique. I am not a good gift giver. I am a. I'm a self gifter where I'm just like, okay, I. I.
- [37:51]
C
Want to buy it.
- [37:52]
A
Yes. So the worst gift I've given is the gift I gave to myself, which is I am one of the idiots who bought the Apple Vision Pro. I'm. Oh, there it is. Me and David Sampson both raising our hands. We bought the VR headset.
- [38:08]
C
I re gifted it to my son for his 21st.
- [38:11]
A
Amazing. What? How many. First off, we should talk about re gifting. But what. How many times did you use it, David, before you decided to re gift it?
- [38:20]
C
It was unopened.
- [38:21]
A
Oh, my God.
- [38:22]
B
Do you give good gifts? Or have you over the course of your children's lives given them good gifts?
- [38:28]
C
No.
- [38:28]
B
It's funny because you recognize how much it hurts you and you just like, yeah, do it to them too.
- [38:34]
C
It's. Listen, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
- [38:37]
B
But it's clear the goose. The goose is clearly not happy with it.
- [38:40]
A
Bad for the goose. It was traumatic for the goose.
- [38:42]
C
Yeah, it's goose, but it's a goose nonetheless.
- [38:47]
A
I don't think we necessarily agree on the meaning of this idiom.
- [38:54]
B
Yeah, I don't think we do.
- [38:55]
C
Idiots.
- [38:57]
B
Yeah. My kids always ask me what I want. I always tell them, give me a hug.
- [39:01]
A
Look.
- [39:02]
B
This year, my oldest daughter kept asking me, so I said, I would like you to put your clothes away every day from now. From now until Christmas without me asking you. And she rolled her eyes at me. So I was like, I don't. I don't know. I don't. Like, write me a card. I don't.
- [39:18]
A
Did you guys ever do the thing where you gave. I used to. I remember giving my mom coupons. Yes.
- [39:22]
B
Yeah, I know you're gonna do that.
- [39:24]
A
Coupons. Yeah. You write a custom coupon book, and it's like, I will clean my room. I will whatever, not play Sega Genesis. And you would tear them off and hand it to your mom. That everything. David, you familiar with the coupon? As a. As a creative project.
- [39:38]
C
One. One time, I got a coupon saying that I would get a bike, and it was just a picture of a bike, and I never got the bike. I ended up with just the picture. So I do not. I do not traffic in coupon gifts at all.
- [39:52]
B
Tell me something. Tell me something happy, David. Something happy about your childhood. No, I mean, I just want to hear something happy about your childhood or. Or something that. Some experience with your children that you had that was, like, incredibly meaningful.
- [40:07]
C
I have one. When I was 13, I had a bar mitzvah, and the hottest girl in the grade came to my bar mitzvah, and she came in a purple skirt, and I remember the outfit, and I was in love with her so much, and I didn't think I had a chance that she would come to little old me. My lunchtime bar mitzvah, and she came to that, and it was the greatest gift I've ever gotten in my life.
- [40:36]
A
What happened at the. Congratulations.
- [40:38]
B
I think that's it. I think that's it. I think she just came.
- [40:40]
C
What do you mean? That was the gift?
- [40:42]
A
Yeah.
- [40:42]
B
I don't think that he got someone's time.
- [40:44]
C
My kiss. Don't be ridiculous. I barely got a glance or a gander, but it was good enough for me. We were in the same space.
- [40:53]
B
Good for you, goose.
- [40:55]
A
I was gonna say it's rare that the control room weighs in through my ear and just says, david is bumming everybody out.
- [41:02]
C
Oh, I don't mean to. I'm the luckiest guy in the world. You guys are not playing it right. I'm just giving you stories. You guys, I'm so sorry. I'm very fortunate. Literally, I'm the luckiest person I know, so don't feel badly for me. I'm more than fine. More than fine.
- [41:33]
A
What did we find out today, guys? On this episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out. An episode in which we found out. I think a lot of stuff, personally. Yeah, but. But, Dominique, do you want to lead us off with the revelation that you have developed here today?
- [41:47]
B
I found out that the. The depths of Pablo's content brain know no floor.
- [41:56]
A
Take that as a compliment.
- [41:57]
C
I found out that the depth of Dominique's competitive nature knows no bounds.
- [42:05]
A
I found out that both of you guys are bad at finding it out because all of those things should have been obvious from episode one that we ever did together.
- [42:16]
B
Oh, man, that's a good one.
- [42:19]
A
I invoke superstar privilege. The show is over. Get the out of here.
- [42:23]
C
Thank God. See you later, guys. Thank you.
- [42:26]
A
Love you guys. This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production and I'll talk to you next time.