← Pablo Torre Finds Out
Loading summary
Transcript293 lines
- [00:00]
A
Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre. Today's episode is brought to you by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.
- [00:12]
B
Show us the rods.
- [00:15]
A
Mina's showing rods. She's showing rods on the chat for free.
- [00:19]
C
Better rods than cones.
- [00:21]
A
Right after this ad.
- [00:24]
C
You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network. I recently went to the eye doctor, and I, for the first time in, like, six years, didn't go up a number.
- [00:45]
B
It's a big day.
- [00:46]
C
Was a big day.
- [00:47]
A
Does that mean it's gotten as bad as it could get, or.
- [00:49]
C
I think. I think I maxed out. I think they're just like. At this point.
- [00:54]
B
Are you at the point where you have readers?
- [00:56]
C
I don't have readers. I wear contacts all day, though.
- [00:59]
B
Gotcha.
- [00:59]
C
Yeah.
- [01:00]
A
I'm still falling asleep with these things in my eyeballs. The last thing that I should do is the thing I do so often.
- [01:08]
C
When you go to the eye doctor now, do they give you the option of buying the 3D rendering of the inside of your eye that looks like. Like Lord of the Rings? I'll show you what it looks like.
- [01:16]
A
Hold on. I didn't know that was an option.
- [01:17]
B
You can get your Sauron picture taken.
- [01:19]
C
It seems completely unnecessary.
- [01:22]
A
And yet a sonogram of your eyeball.
- [01:24]
C
This is what inside everyone's eye looks like. Does it not look like Sauron?
- [01:28]
A
It does look like the eye of Sauron. The crazy part is you see your eyelashes.
- [01:33]
C
Yeah.
- [01:33]
A
And then it's like the aurora borealis.
- [01:35]
C
Right. Then you realize, like, oh, wow, like, this is. And then all the, like, capillaries. It's so, like, it looks like a Van Gogh painting or something, too. That's. Yeah, the top of the eye and the. Yeah, the bottom.
- [01:47]
B
That's.
- [01:47]
C
It's cool, right?
- [01:49]
A
Exclusive Mina Kimes eyeball footage. Love that we're starting with that, by the way. Speaking of seeing things, it is so good to see Mike Golich Jr. My eyeballs. My rods could not be more erect upon seeing the Man. So we are reuniting for the first time since I was in la. It's been roughly about a year since we taped Celebrity Family Feud. And just seeing both you guys, obviously, but Gojo in any sort of capacity just reminds me of feeling the greatest I will ever feel in my life.
- [02:20]
B
Being at this building Reminds me of when I, like, sheepishly tried to bully you guys into letting me come to the taping of that. You had mentioned it, and I was just like, so what are you guys doing later? Can I come? Just worked my way into the crowd so I could go be a giant in a crowd full of short people.
- [02:38]
C
You are many things, and I hope this doesn't sound like I'm limiting you to a role, but you are the ultimate plus one.
- [02:46]
A
Like, ultimate guest America's plus one.
- [02:49]
C
Like, that is. You're nodding because you know it's true.
- [02:52]
A
Like, the other day, a real friend.
- [02:54]
C
Of mine, this guy andam I went to college with, was like, hey, I got tickets to the CONCACAF semis at SoFi, and it was USA versus Panama and Mexico versus Canada. And then another ticket sprang open, and I was like, of course I'm gonna ask Michael Jr. And you're like, yeah. I go, what is it about you? Everybody loved you. Fit right in.
- [03:14]
B
I think also, you provide bodyguard services.
- [03:18]
A
Also.
- [03:18]
B
That added beef to the equation. The Howie Roseman's world. People understand the value of having large bodies around.
- [03:24]
A
Yeah. You win parties in the trenches.
- [03:27]
B
I've often said that, but I. I think it's twofold. One, it's attitude. Like, my sister was appalled when she heard that I did that. She's like, how were you ready to go in an hour for something like that? And the turnaround time and the willingness there. Because I am an adult without children. Like, I don't have responsibilities. I don't have a dog. I don't have kids at home.
- [03:48]
C
And.
- [03:48]
B
And so I can pick up and go. Sarah Spain. The reason I got to go and see the Ted Lasso season premiere one year was because Sarah was out here in Los Angeles with her husband for that, and they had an extra ticket that popped up, and Sarah literally said, you're the only person I know without kids who could be ready in an hour on a Tuesday night to come to Brentwood and hang out with the cast there. So being. It's. I mean, it's kind of like sports. The best ability is availability, and I am criminally available.
- [04:16]
C
You're also willing to.
- [04:18]
B
Yes.
- [04:18]
C
Which is. It's willing and able. And you were like. And you're down. You're just, like, down to do anything.
- [04:24]
B
I like to think, too, that I can get along with a lot of groups if you just throw me into a. A group of people I haven't met. I'm not going to embarrass you in front of company.
- [04:34]
C
You got there before me. I was just hanging out with everyone.
- [04:41]
A
Yeah. Social safe harbor is what I. I think of. Just, like, you're a. You're a port In a storm. It's such a great compliment.
- [04:50]
B
It is truly touched. I don't know what part of that you thought would be, like, offensive to me. That is the ultimate plus one.
- [04:58]
C
Implies you're not like the main character.
- [05:00]
B
Like, I feel like, yeah, I'm fine not being the main character.
- [05:04]
C
That I think is part of it as well, though. You're not.
- [05:06]
A
You not having main character syndrome.
- [05:08]
C
Yes. You're not like a. Look at me, Louie.
- [05:10]
A
Yeah.
- [05:10]
B
Again, not to make everything sports, but like, I was an offensive lineman. Like, talk about wanting to not be the main character. That's my life. It also helps being friends with main characters who have cool tickets to sell, which, I mean, most of my cool experiences, when I tell people about them in la, it's like Namina had a plus one to that. The Love is Blind finale. What's up?
- [05:51]
A
I do want to start today's show with the topic that I've been thinking about deeply. And it starts with a bit of sadness because George Foreman, a mountain of a man in his own right, he died last week at age 76. And for people who don't know, Foreman was one of the greatest heavyweights of all time. He was somebody who insinuated himself into the tripod that was Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier and George Foreman, he was the guy who fought Ali at the Rumble in the Jungle. His first pro fight was 1969. His last fight was 1997. But his legacy, speaking of how we perceive the great characters in our lives, his legacy, you could argue was actually.
- [06:31]
D
This had a busy day. My Lean Mean Fat reducing grilling machine is great to come home to. It lets you prepare hot, delicious meals in just minutes. My extra large grill with temperature control is only available from Sears. And it's a knockout.
- [06:47]
C
Dinner's ready, George.
- [06:48]
D
I'm so proud of it. I put my name on it.
- [06:51]
A
Have you guys ever used the George Foreman Grill before?
- [06:55]
C
Are we American humans on this earth?
- [06:58]
B
Yeah, I figured that was an everyone thing, like just a rite of passage.
- [07:04]
A
So statistically, it's also real. So in the 1990s, the George Foreman Lean Mean Fat Reducing grilling machine, that was the title, was the second most purchased home appliance after the television. Wow.
- [07:18]
C
Wow.
- [07:19]
B
Oh, my God.
- [07:20]
A
So just let's just sit with that for a second. And the visuals, in case you're not watching on YouTube, which you obviously should, to see both the size contrast between me and Mike Olich Jr. But also what it looks like to see a George Foreman grill. It's simple. I mean, visually it's like a panini press. Yes, but on a slope.
- [07:36]
B
The angle was really the innovation. Right. Like just that ability to knock out the fat into that tray in front. The tagline, all of it worked so well. And I mean, I don't know, as someone that grew up in a cold weather environment, being able to grill stuff in the wintertime inside, indoors, huge.
- [07:53]
C
So when that came out, because I was a child, so I barely remember. I just remember everyone had one. I remember using it. I remember the commercials and other things about George Foreman. But since then, so many imitators have sprung up and I think actually at the time, not many people had. I don't think paninis were even.
- [08:09]
A
No, this was the forerunner of the.
- [08:10]
C
Panini press, which then became omnipresent. So at the time, nothing like this really existed.
- [08:17]
A
So the origin story of this is actually fascinating. And it involves an inventor who had what he called a short order grill. But in the 90s, this is QVC era. Yeah, right. So this was, imagine like the. The primordial ooze of name, image and likeness.
- [08:33]
B
Yeah.
- [08:34]
A
Was like television for us as kids. You'd turn on the television, there'd be celebrity pitch men. And so for the George Foreman Grill. And again, I had one in my house. I had one in my first apartment. My roommate Juan would attract hundreds of mice with that grease tray. Inadvertently. All of that, the reason why all of this was happening, why it became the most successful athlete branded product of all time, short of, I believe, the Air Jordan, which is an incredible. An incredible thing. It begins actually, our story of this with something that Hulk Hogan told our friend dan LeBatard in 2014 on highly questionable, a show we all know have done, because Hulk Hogan, Terry Bolia, told Dan that he missed a phone call that would have enabled him to be the king of the grill.
- [09:23]
E
Is it true that you passed on the George Foreman Grill idea?
- [09:28]
F
No, that's not true. I missed the phone call.
- [09:30]
B
What happened? Tell me the story.
- [09:32]
F
Well, I mean, you know, I. George Foreman and I had the same agent. And my kids were complaining that I was always towards the end of the line picking them up at school. They would get out of school at 3 o' clock and these soccer moms would start lining up their minivans and talking shop, you know, and so I would come at quarter to 3, 15 minutes before my kids get out of school. And I was at the back of the bus. So I went to McDonald's early, got diet Cokes and get the burgers and the fries. It Was a big surprise. I get to the school about quarter after two. I was the first one in line. My kids came out, they were all excited. I had the drinks and the hamburgers and stuff, and we went home. And I checked my answer machine and my answer machine. My agent called me, goes, hey, Hogan, I'm calling you. I got two things. I got a grill and I got a blender. I got these two choices for you and George. So when I called him back, my agent says, well, I called you first, and I figured you'd take the grill, but you weren't home. So I called George and he took the grill. So 400, $450 million later, we've got the George Foreman Grill in every size and color you can imagine. And I got the blender that you'd put 8 ounces of water, a scoop of protein, and a double a battery in it. It'd spin three times and fart and cut off.
- [10:39]
B
I was just gonna ask if we knew the whereabouts of the blender.
- [10:43]
A
Oh, so it sounds like the magic Bullet, Mike. I was hoping someone would ask. It was called the Hulk Hogan Thunder Mixer. It was a real thing. It did, in fact, fart out stuff and was terrible. He also tried to make his own grill, by the way, Hulk Hogan. And it failed. Obviously, nothing could compete. So this is an incredible, like, sliding doors alternate history in which Hulk Hogan becomes what George Foreman became in all of his economic success and his cultural influence. A different country, I might even argue.
- [11:15]
C
Yeah, right.
- [11:18]
B
Yes, for a lot of reasons.
- [11:20]
A
So what we wanted to do is fact check this. And immediately we went to the grill's inventor to mean his question, this guy Michael Bohm, and what his family did. And they issued a statement to us here at Pablo Torre finds out because they dispute the Hulkster's cataloging of events. Quote, george Foreman was the only celebrity our dad approached about endorsing the grill. We don't know who started the story about Hulk Hogan being approached, but it isn't accurate, end quote. And so immediately I'm like, okay, we have a real he said, she said, Hulk said, they said. And the agent that Hulk Hogan cited in that clip was a guy named Sam. It turns out the agent who repped both Hulk Hogan and George Foreman, unfortunately, Sam also passed away. This was last fall. But they shared a lawyer. And the lawyer is a guy named Henry Holmes. And that lawyer, Henry Holmes, told us also that the Hulk Hogan story is, quote, not my recollection. And in fact, in fact, what he said was that it was two other celebrities that their shared representation their agent was asking about.
- [12:25]
E
And he says, well, I want to get involved in merchandising. I'd love to do something with Pamela Anderson. And I said, pammy's very particular, Sam, and I don't think you have her sensibilities. All I ask, but. And then he had a great eye. He said, what about Chuck Norris? And we could do a lock deal. And I said, well, you know, Chuck is busy with his television stuff. He said, can you talk to George? So George says, tell him to find a hamburger grill.
- [13:02]
C
This is really a who's who of the most famous people in the 1990s.
- [13:04]
A
It really is. It really is.
- [13:06]
B
And so I was just thinking about how each of them would have worked. Like, obviously, regardless of feelings about Hulk Hogan and what he represents, based on that time period in his stardom, grill probably still would have worked. Pam Anderson and Chuck Norris are interesting to me because in looking and thinking back on this now, part of the George Foreman appeal in my mind is always the underlying thing in food conversations, which is I trust a big guy. George Foreman, big guy cooking the food in there. I'm like, oh, yeah, of course he knows what he's talking about in food. Look at how much food he's probably eaten over the years. And so of course I trust a big guy more. So like, you know, Pam Anderson, Chuck Norris. I know Chuck Norris had like the total gym, so maybe not a super far cry, but George just felt like the perfect symphony of background and enthusiasm for the product that we saw. All those things that came together and.
- [13:57]
A
Made it work, does it feel authentic to him? I think is the question when you think about athlete sponsorships. Right. We, we don't believe it if we can't imagine you using it. And George Foreman, this is a detail that I'm so glad again, Gojo's here to. To learn. George Foreman was known for eating two burgers before fights. He was the self described cheeseburger champ.
- [14:19]
B
God, but that's what I mean.
- [14:23]
C
Like, preceded the. The grill.
- [14:25]
A
Yes. So he actually, Foreman is a bigger character in the origin story of his own. Again, what we thought was someone else's externally imposed sponsorship than he ever got credit for. And so the cheeseburger champ, what they, what they do is that he signs a deal that's inspired by Michael Jordan's mother's negotiations with Nike. So this is a sort of famous sports business story. It's no upfront guarantees, but the back end, George Foreman gets 45%. 45%.
- [14:54]
E
So George owned part of his licensing deal. And the first few months, it wasn't really generating a lot. And we all got together and say, well, this, you know, was George punching and stuff. So we talked and George was part of the discussion. And I said, let's make him a cook that he's cooking. He had the hamburger, you know, a presentation when he was training for fights. And so we changed the infomercial, and it hit like a bang.
- [15:41]
C
You did not come here today to box, right?
- [15:44]
A
Not at all.
- [15:44]
D
As a matter of fact.
- [15:49]
B
Get rid of that robe.
- [15:50]
E
All right, so now I'm in the office. And they said, george is on the call. It's an emergency. And I went, emergency. So, yeah, George, it's Henry. Are they laundering money? Who's laundering money? Did you see our check on the grill? I said, you know, I don't pay attention to that, but let me. Oh, my God. Maybe they are laundering money.
- [16:19]
A
At the height of the grill's popularity, George Foreman was being paid $8 million a month.
- [16:31]
B
And this was in the 90s, right?
- [16:32]
A
This is in the 90s.
- [16:33]
B
$8 million a month in the 90s.
- [16:36]
C
Random question, do they still sell them?
- [16:39]
A
I am so glad you asked. So when I looked this up on Amazon, it's the most popular indoor grill product still today. Still going.
- [16:47]
C
Still going.
- [16:48]
A
Still going.
- [16:49]
B
Well, it's. I was thinking about it too. It's. It's like Google, where anything I see that is like this to me is a George Foreman grill. The same way that like Xerox, Xerox, Band Aid, Kleenex, all these things are not just brands.
- [17:04]
A
They are the product follow up thought.
- [17:07]
C
Do we think that the Zoomer generation even knows George Foreman was a boxer?
- [17:12]
A
I. I think there's a real chance that they don't. I think there's a real chance that he's merely the autographed cursive name on this thing that their parents have at home. I think they might not even remember that. George Foreman in 1997. This is his last fight. Like all boxers, he retired unretired, fought when it was way too late. And so the last fight of his career, he loses to a guy named Shannon Briggs that I personally don't remember. Otherwise, it's a. It's the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City. And while George Foreman is standing in the ring, post game interview, he says this.
- [17:46]
D
George, your reaction to the decision? Well, Larry, I want you to see something. Look, that's about eight weeks I spent on that George Foreman Lean Mean fat reducing grilling machine. I'll grill right in the bedroom. Steaks and salmon. Steaks. And I was able to lose a lot of weight. And I use it. The thing really works. And recently in Texas, they just started this home equity loans. People can borrow that little extra money they need on the mortgages. And, and, and what does that got to do with the price of tea in China or the result of this fight? Trying to sell my grill, Larry.
- [18:19]
C
Jeez.
- [18:21]
A
The goat, the pitchman goat is what we just witnessed in that clip.
- [18:26]
B
We. We are all obviously sad for his family that he has been lost. I have to imagine that outside of them, the saddest people on the planet that George is no longer with us are the Paul brothers. That they couldn't rope him into a fight because that kind of energy in that environment is perfect.
- [18:43]
C
I feel like the innovation right now is happening at the nil level. Like, what's the air conditioner?
- [18:49]
B
Dakoldis Crawford.
- [18:50]
C
Dakoldis Crawford getting the AC sponsorship in Nebraska. Yeah.
- [18:54]
A
Hey, this is Dakota Scrofford, ride receiver from Louisiana now playing in Lincoln. When your AC isn't Dakotas, you call SOS heating cooling.
- [19:03]
C
I will say one that comes to mind was Kyler Murray getting a Call of Duty deal. That was funny.
- [19:09]
A
Oh, that's good.
- [19:10]
C
Well done.
- [19:10]
A
Yeah, we fully believe that he is going to continue to play that game.
- [19:14]
C
It was bl. That cuts to the. The Foreman principle, which is what you were saying. Like, do you trust a big guy to sell a grill? Yes, I trust Kyler Murray to sell video games. Yes.
- [19:23]
A
George Foreman to give a more economic context to this. So all boxers effectively go broke. And five years after the manufacturer made this licensing deal with George Foreman, they then bought the rights to his name for $148.5 million, which is just. We don't respect what this man accomplished as much as we have paid tribute to him as what he was, which was one of the great heavyweights at a time when heavyweight fighters, of course, were the most important people in sports.
- [19:58]
B
I don't want to celebrate Bobby Bonilla Day anymore. I want to celebrate George Foreman Day. Because we like. My dad always jokes when he would sign something or someone would show, like, hey, this is on ebay. My dad's like, well, my signature probably brought the value down on that. George's signature was worth $148 million. That's insane. Celebrate.
- [20:20]
C
That man explains why he named all his kids after him, right? All of them. George, Georgina, Georgette, George Foreman's children.
- [20:29]
A
I'm going to give you some of the names on the depth chart. George Jr, Georgetta, George III, George IV, which is, again, interesting. George V. Wait for it. George vi and Natalie.
- [20:48]
B
If you're Natalie, are you thrilled or pissed?
- [20:52]
A
They also have nicknames.
- [20:54]
B
Yes. Wait, this. As I looked up the other day, this is my favorite part of the George Foreman children roster.
- [21:00]
A
So George III is Monk, George IV is Big Wheel, George V is Red, and George the sixth, very confusingly, is Little Joey.
- [21:15]
B
I need to know the backstory of Big Wheel so bad. That sounds like a prime little kid nickname.
- [21:20]
A
Feels like another episode entirely.
- [21:22]
B
Oh, man.
- [21:23]
A
Big Wheel, Big Wheel, Big Wheel.
- [21:26]
B
If your, if your circle of friends isn't handing out nicknames like Big Wheel, you need a new circle.
- [21:47]
A
All right, Mina, what did you bring? Today is your topic.
- [21:50]
C
The story that I want to start with is the former running back turned influencer, Ashton Hall. He is an influencer. Before this, he was pretty active on TikTok and anyways went viral really like a week ago. It's been a week now that we've lived in this ashen hall.
- [22:12]
A
Has it been a week?
- [22:12]
C
I know. Post his morning routine on. Actually it went viral on Twitter, but he's a TikTok guy and he's so. He's a Florida based fitness trainer who often posts videos of his daily routine. This routine, however, took off and went viral because it features him. It has like little time stamps and it has notably him pouring a bottle of Saratoga water, Saratoga Springs water, into a bowl of ice. And then, uh, that was at 5:46am doing his workout and then doing a lot of other strange things. But at 9:08 9:00am dunking his face into the bottle of water. Many people made parodies of it, including our own Mike Golick Jr. So for the audio audience, go check out Mike Golick Jr's video. It has him pouring a bowl of Lucky Charms and then dunking his face into it.
- [23:04]
A
Yeah. Which feels like again, authentically actually what plausibly Mike Golick Jr. Might be doing in the morning.
- [23:09]
B
100%.
- [23:10]
C
So when I'm on TikTok, the algorithm, all I see is not all I see, but a lot of what I see is very beautiful young women trying to sell me very cheap and ugly clothing like you would not believe. Like, this $20 dress looks amazing on everyone. And I can look at it. I'm like, this is obviously very ugly. And like you look amazing in it because you're hot. Also we have, we see like Get Ready with me routines, a lot of that. There's a lot of reality TV content. So my Question was men, what is the, like, male equivalent of that unique to them? Like, in addition to seeing that kind of crap, I also see, you know, like a lot of mock drafts and whatnot. So I know that every male is.
- [23:53]
A
I like that Mina's algorithm is fashion nova and mock drafts.
- [23:56]
B
Yes.
- [23:57]
C
You know, every. You're all beautiful, special snowflakes with your own individually catered algorithms. I'm sure Mike's has a lot of very key differences from Pablo's. That said, I do think there's. Right now, regardless specific to gender, you are seeing influencers pitch you the same crap. And so when I saw this video, I thought, wow, this is a lot of what I imagine. Men, regardless of even if you're a man who works out loud, like, men are seeing this. So that's my question. I would posit, like, what is the slap? The. What are male influencers pitching to men right now?
- [24:34]
B
Well, like with this one, and it's the most common one, it's being jacked and appearing successful is the thing that they want to sell most men. I did go through and look specifically at the ads I was served on Tik Tok the other day, like, what people were actually trying to sell me. And it's a mix of really shitty T shirts that have things like a dog with a beer can in its mouth or Japanese anime characters on it, which might be a personal thing.
- [25:02]
A
Again, the center of the Venn diagram that is you.
- [25:05]
B
There is also the push up board, which offers you the ability to do push ups from different angles and thus to hit different muscle groups. A lot of custom hats and mugs which are big on that. And the two things I think I see most often for men that are being marketed are competitive brands of like Athleisure dress pants.
- [25:28]
C
Yeah.
- [25:28]
B
Like different versions of like Lululemon, like chinos. Some version of that where it's like I bought. My boyfriend used to buy a lot of times it's also women talking about men, which is the other thing we get served a lot interesting is it's women being like, my boyfriend had these and I hated it. And then he got these and now I loved it.
- [25:47]
A
It's right now when I'm at my standing treadmill desk. Yes, I am absolutely equipped to be on a zoom call as well as, you know, moisture wicking my legs.
- [25:56]
B
Yes, fellas love a moisture wick. Apparently, because that's all our clothes are made. Like, they make suits now.
- [26:03]
A
Tech fabrics. Oh, man.
- [26:05]
B
Tech fabric suits.
- [26:06]
A
Yeah. We're on that same quadrant of the algorithm. Of like, this suit is also something that is kind of able to be danced inside of.
- [26:13]
C
So this is actually a response I got a lot. And then I mentioned to my husband, and he co signed it, which is just putting the word tactical in front of stuff, like, so. And he gets like, tactical baby carrier, tactical stroller. Because our algorithms show us a lot of kid stuff, right? Because I'll spend a little too much time watching someone be like, here's a minute. How to get your kid to fall asleep every time. And I'm like, so we get, I'll advertise to that. But is there anything like they won't put tactical in front of for men?
- [26:43]
B
I mean, if we're doing stroller, the answer is no. Like, what is a tactical stroller? Does that have a mounted turret on the back?
- [26:49]
C
It's camo, first of all.
- [26:51]
B
That's always what it is, is, it's just, hey, we made a camo for.
- [26:54]
C
You with, like, an extra pocket.
- [26:56]
B
But hey, big boy, you think because you play a lot of Call of Duty, you're ready to fight in the military? So we'll give you some tactical gear to go with that. Misguided belief.
- [27:04]
A
Yeah, my tactical boxer shorts, which have, like, loops for carabiners. Super, super popular.
- [27:09]
B
O. Honestly, it is a lot. There are a lot more boxer brands than you realize too. It really is like, it's putting tactical in front of it and then assuring you we will take care of your privates because the amount of, like, male trimmers that are on there.
- [27:24]
A
Wow. Oh, yeah.
- [27:25]
B
Too many to count.
- [27:27]
C
Wow.
- [27:27]
A
Yeah. I want to clarify. I am not my clicks. So I think this is just a philosophy that all of us should embrace more. The algorithm is not who we are. It is who we have been tempted by an unfair dark force in Silicon Valley to become.
- [27:42]
C
So I think that's worth emphasizing here, though, because, like, I, I have never once purchased a item of clothing from TikTok. But they're still trying, man. So I, I, I like that point that you made. And that's why I do think there are, like, aspects of it where they are showing things. I know I will, but they are really, they the omniscient. They, these apps are mixing things that I have never shown an indication of liking, and yet they're still trying.
- [28:09]
A
It's like being hunted. And it's like, yeah, you know where I drink at the watering hole, what time I'm there, You know that I have the capacity to sometimes fall through the little trap you've set. It just Sticks in some leaves over it. I get it. But I'm not actually always trying to go there. You are putting it in front of me because. Because I feel you think that I'm weak and sometimes I am.
- [28:34]
B
Well, so that's the thing I was going to ask is because Mina, you mentioned you've not bought anything on the TikTok shop.
- [28:39]
A
Man. I bought one of those things where you put. You hang it over the doorknob of a door and it's called a neck hammock.
- [28:47]
C
What?
- [28:48]
A
So I get a lot of chiropractor videos.
- [28:50]
C
Do you have back problems?
- [28:52]
A
I have a lot of like, oh, on command.
- [28:57]
B
That was impressive, horrible and real. Yes.
- [29:01]
C
Okay, so the algorithm does know you here.
- [29:03]
A
So they sold me a neck. The predator hunting me sold me a neck hammock. And so did I at various points, hang it on a doorknob in my house and then lie down and try to recreate the release that I was promised in this short form. Video that was euphoric and almost orgasmic. Yes. I tried to get that and I felt none of it. Tactical neck hammock.
- [29:26]
B
I was going to say we put camo on it. You immediately become the core demographic. But we are sort of the perfect generation for this in some ways because as evidenced by the George Foreman Grill, this has been a part like I remember begging my mom, like, mom, I am a maybe 12, 13 year old boy not doing my own laundry at this point. But I'm like, mom, we're. We gotta get OxiClean.
- [29:50]
A
Oh my God.
- [29:51]
B
Incredible. It was like all of those, like the slap tapes, all of that stuff.
- [29:57]
A
They put it on a clear boat.
- [29:59]
B
Yes. And it stayed up and it doesn't shamwow. I had all of that stuff because I was a mark then as a kid.
- [30:07]
C
I like your point though, about the through line here because it's. Or it's interesting like to think like those commercials, we were children, we're. They were really good advertising. Right. Like it was just like we saw the George Foreman commercial. I don't think any of this stuff is, that we're seeing now is particularly well made or thoughtful or well crafted. It's just relentless.
- [30:27]
A
Yes, it's. I think so. This, my nostalgia, I realize as we say this aloud, is for the story, the story of this product, the, the narrative that they're weaving. That's why it sticks with me. Now, right now, if you ask me to remember the ad that sold me the, the neck hammock, I don't remember it. Just like the general Sense that, ah, someone made a sound. But there was no story there. It was like five seconds.
- [30:53]
B
And that's the part that it's like, oh, that's how little you think of us now. At least there it felt like there was some effort. But with this now, like going all the way back to the Ashton hall story, like, I don't know if he was paid by the water company or not, but I've seen their sales have gone crazy because everyone's buying it, even ironically, just to do videos to mock it. But with that, there was no sell to it. It was just the cell with all these people. And Mina, you talked about it with the dresses, the majority of influences. Look at how hot this person is, look at how rich this person looks. And don't you want the thing that they're also using so that you will also appear rich? Which is a concept that's pretty well worn. But in those infomercials, that wasn't it. It was, hey, I can keep a boat afloat with this weird ass tape. That's sick. Look what it can do.
- [31:41]
C
The other thing, like, back then there were people who were addicted to it, right? Like I seen on tv, it was not a common thing. Now it's like the thing is there, it's relentless. And it's also giving, being fed to you on a device where with one click you can get it. And it's cheap also, because costs have come down even further because of, you know, manufacturing and whatnot and delivery. So it's just so much more insidious now, I think, than it was then.
- [32:06]
A
Yeah. We are nostalgic for a time when as seen on TV feels in retrospect, like it's high art relative to what we're doing. When it was criticized at the time as being like the slop.
- [32:17]
C
Yes. People were very, very, like, negative about this.
- [32:21]
A
Yeah, it felt like that was preying on us. We now realize that, God, it was.
- [32:27]
C
It was golden age.
- [32:28]
A
It was a golden age.
- [32:30]
B
Are we really just trapped by our own nostalgia, though? Because, Pablo, you mentioned the relentless nature of it. And who among us does not remember being woken up after falling asleep on the couch in the middle of the night with the TV on by the sounds of one of the now that's what I call music CDs that's being advertised or any of those where it just immediately hits you, blast you with this number and you hear it over and over so often. I could at that time recite every song. It was like the riff off in Pitch Perfect where A lot of those songs now I only know in the context of how they flow into each other in that movie. You used to know those songs based on how they would flow into the next track on that album of 80s hits or whatever. Now that's what I call music version. And it was also equally relentless in a way that felt subliminal at that point.
- [33:18]
C
No, that's what I call music. I haven't thought about that in so long. I made my mom buy me the. I think like the 2000s pop one when I was in junior high. A lot of Britney. And those were like the bestselling CDs.
- [33:32]
A
Yes.
- [33:33]
B
As they should have been.
- [33:34]
A
Yes. I do now realize that we're. I'm just nostalgic for a time when my neck didn't have to be cracked.
- [33:41]
B
Yeah, it's not the ads. It's the life around the ads that's changed.
- [33:46]
A
Yeah. Mike, what did you bring? Pablo Torre finds out.
- [34:03]
B
I brought a question about a very popular TV show that was posed in our group chat, which was White Lotus, the current season that's out of the hit HBO series that is now in season three, where, you know, every year the show begins with a crime or a death that gives way to a story that usually takes place in some faraway land surrounding a bunch of people that come together from different lives and are tied to some hotel or resort. This season's in Thailand right now. And I think as the recording of this podcast, we are six episodes into this season, so spoiler alert for anybody that's not all the way caught up. But is this season of White Lotus actually good?
- [34:47]
A
No.
- [34:49]
C
Like coming out firing.
- [34:52]
A
It's not.
- [34:53]
B
And I don't think that's the wrong answer. But I guess my question is why with shows like this, and I feel like a subsidiary of this has been season two of Severance in some ways, which is. I feel like there's a lot of societal pressure to just nod and agree that shows made by.
- [35:08]
A
Are you. Are you using this topic to get to a hotter take, which is at Severance? Season two is not good.
- [35:15]
B
It's a really good sci fi show that people are trying to constantly convince me is the most well thought out prestige show of all time.
- [35:21]
C
Well, I feel like this elevates to an even not hotter, but maybe more overarching thesis, which is a lot of television now isn't good. It just looks good and has good actors. And I think that is what's happening with. Because to bring it back to White Lotus. I both look forward to Watching it every week. I've seen all the episodes, enjoy watching it, but also don't think it's a particular particularly good television show this season. And I think the fact that those two things are happening at the same time is kind of interesting.
- [35:50]
A
It does feel like watching an Architectural Digest tour.
- [35:55]
B
Right.
- [35:56]
C
Love those, though.
- [35:57]
A
And it. It is same. I am those cliques, actually. I fully identify as somebody who wants to get a tour of. Yeah, Cate Blanchett's rustic townhome. I am somebody who wants to see what it's like when beautiful people live in beautiful places. I'm a simple creature in that regard. What I sort of chafe against is how easy it's been to drag out plots that could be accomplished in 30 minutes. That part, to me, feels like the big triumph of aesthetics over substance.
- [36:33]
B
And I think a lot of this also boils back to fan culture around these shows because the reddits that pop up, the Internet theories that surround these shows and the people that in all walks of life, you know, the idea of being a ball knower is this thing we lionize over everything else. And if you push back at all on this show, it's. Well, it's a slow burn. You have to appreciate that. It's like, all right, like, you don't have to insult me like that. Not every slow burn is well earned in the payoff that you get at the end. And with this, you. It does just feel like, hey, this is just the vacation porn this season. Not to use that last term too loosely, considering the other subplot of the show.
- [37:15]
A
That's incest.
- [37:16]
C
That plot doesn't make sense. Or not. It doesn't make sense, but it doesn't feel like it's building towards anything or has any true function in the story. That's. We're talking again. If you're listening to this, you watch the show. You got up so we don't have to do the spoiler disclosure over whatever. The two brothers having like a sort of not mildly now incestuous storyline. That's not interesting to me. There's no reason it's there. I would also argue some of the characters feel like retreads. Patrick Schwarzenegger's character is one of the two brothers. They've done that character now three times, which is the a hole white bro finance dude. Right? The first season, it was. It was excellent. I thought the first season I was like, this is great.
- [37:56]
A
I love that actor, Jake Lacey.
- [37:58]
C
Jake, he's really good. Second season, Theo James. But now it's like, wow. And I don't. And Patrick Schnegar is actually pretty good at it. I just feel like we're doing this again. The dad. Every episode.
- [38:08]
A
The dad is. It's.
- [38:09]
C
Every episode is the same thing with the dad. Also. Dream sequences. Come on. I would say the only storyline that I find kind of interesting, because it feels a little bit new, is the female friendship storyline, which is very funny.
- [38:22]
A
As much as I resent this show for taking my time, I'm still trying to figure out, am I missing something such that my time has not been wasted? So I've been reading these interviews, and it's like it was intended to be this blob that is. Mike White, the creator of the show, apparently, who loves going on vacation, encountered three blonde women like this that he had called the blob because he couldn't distinguish them except for when they were trashing each other. And so, yes, this hydra of women and the infighting does feel like something that the show hasn't quite tackled.
- [38:52]
C
And it's a story. It's happening. It's evolving. They're. You know, things happen with them. I'll throw out another theory because I'm thinking about, okay, so we like the show or we watch it. It's where we find it very smooth because of the aesthetics, because the actors. Great actors. Every season. This season, the actors are good. This is not the problem with the show.
- [39:09]
A
No.
- [39:10]
C
I would also argue it almost feels like the show is being made for memes rather than like, to tell a story. Because I think about Parker Posey's character who just like, speaks in memes, basically. Right. Juan Goggins, the scene with Sam Rockwell was so like.
- [39:25]
A
So like, wow, the Asian women.
- [39:27]
B
Yeah.
- [39:27]
C
The guy. This guy tells the story, but, like, why? To what end? It was a great mimetic moment, but then that's. It's over. I don't know. That's how I feel watching it.
- [39:37]
B
This whole season has felt like a series of just small, encapsulated, unre that aren't paying off to something else. Like I was reading. I. I think Time magazine did like a. An article breaking down this season and was talking to experts, especially with the. Again, the incest subplot. They were looking at some psychoanalysis. There's. But they brought up like Game of Thrones and how that had. But it was like that gave way to a plot line that had that at the center that went on to go and be incredibly impactful in the dynamic of that relationship was, you know, a little more Germane. At the times. And also just a fantasy show. Like, it still wasn't great to see. It's not like we're promoting that by any means. It was still a very uncomfortable part of that show. But they also didn't make it. The show's whole personality, like, this whole season has felt like just kind of dancing around, getting to that point. And the only person now that Jennifer Coolidge is gone, which is the other reason I think this season suffered, is my guy Gaitak. He's the only one I have to root for.
- [40:33]
A
Oh, God. But I. So I would hate him. I really, as somebody who should identify with Guy Talk, the security guard working the toll booth at the front of the hotel. I'm just mad.
- [40:46]
C
Yeah, same. Do you have the. Okay, I have.
- [40:49]
A
He's so incompetent.
- [40:50]
C
Yes.
- [40:50]
A
I cannot watch the summary of the problem.
- [40:53]
C
This is. I think we've now drawn a line in the sand between two types of people.
- [40:58]
A
Weirdly, Mike Golik Jr. Is pro Asian inclusion, and we are firmly against, I.
- [41:05]
C
Would say, the line in the sand. On one side, we have a true empath in Gojo, which takes us to the beginning when we were talking about why he's the ultimate plus one. I feel bad for people who have things that are done or who are victims or rather, or are being hurt in some way in these shows, but someone who keeps hurting themselves is. I have a lot of trouble with, as a viewer, generally with my husband clocked this, like one episode in. He's like, you're gonna hate this guy, huh? Because I just cannot handle watching people who are incompetent at their jobs over and over and over to the point where, like, when he actually found the.
- [41:41]
A
Gun in last, conveniently just in the first drawer he opened, I was truly shocked.
- [41:46]
C
That was a bigger upset to me than the incest by actually getting something right for once.
- [41:50]
A
But that made me. That made me even madder. It made me even more furious. It's like, wait a minute, you're going to undo this whole plot line about the missing gun by him randomly opening the first drawer with no detective ability at all? Like, why do we just spend this whole so the Guy Talk thing? And I do appreciate. I do appreciate that this character's name is also the subject of the previous topic on this episode. Yeah, Guy Talk. Guy Talk's whole deal is that he is Bambi, he is prey. He is the guy who is weak and defenseless, but also the security guard. And if that had any corresponding connective tissue to a larger plot. Maybe I'll be proven wrong in the finale, but currently it just feels like a diversion. And it's also insulting because something I have been feeling about this show to win back our demographic is set in Thailand and the engagement with Thailand. Not that I want to dive into the culture in an earnest way. I know these are all who are rich and tourists.
- [42:59]
B
I.
- [43:00]
A
There are characters here that I believe could have. Could have engaged more with the premise of what it means to be an absurd white western tourist who is an Aaron Rodgers adjacent character. And even like Walton Goggins, who's like the guy who's going to Bangkok and meeting the Sam Rockwell character who is the closest thing to this thing I'm describing. It just feels like. It feels like he's not really engaging with the setting.
- [43:25]
C
I mean, the one with the teeth is normal and is definitely supposed to be the most likable person. And she is. And she's a. The actress is like riveting and it's super funny and a star. But it makes no sense why she wants to be with Walton Goggins. And they never sell you on it.
- [43:43]
B
Not for a single.
- [43:45]
C
He treats her like. And she's just calls him her soulmate. And it's another reason that the show is driving me crazy this year.
- [43:51]
A
Does it say something? When you said the one with the teeth, I thought you were talking about the other one with the teeth. And now I'm like, oh, you know, the other one with the teeth. I believe that the. The. The woman who dates Greg, the guy with the yacht.
- [44:02]
C
The French Canadian women also has teeth. I mean, come on, that's like vintage saying. Like, Steph Curry is tall compared to Kevin Durant. Like, the British woman's going teeth first in every scene.
- [44:14]
B
Different tax bracket.
- [44:17]
C
I mean, she's great. She is really funny and good actress. But that's the thing. They're all really good actors. They're all really funny. They all have good lines. But it's just the underlying stories are not.
- [44:27]
A
Feels like a script story problem that they said, hey, we'll. I mean, it's. By the way, if you're Mike White and you're like, okay, I made one fantastic season of a show that also enabled me to go on location. And what they do is they rent out the entire location.
- [44:40]
C
Yeah.
- [44:41]
A
So just as a matter of shooting, I presume.
- [44:43]
C
So fun. They're just like, let's be with our friends. Let's get our.
- [44:45]
A
Let's have a summer camp in which we produce a prestige show at the end What? I gotta get a job for my brother. Sure. That's worth it. I'll be that character.
- [44:51]
C
To answer your question, Carrie Coon's character is who I am on vacation, where I get just unnecessarily white girl wasted.
- [44:59]
A
Yeah. And we've seen. We've both experienced hammered Mina, I think.
- [45:03]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [45:03]
C
Well.
- [45:03]
B
And I. I am the same way on vacation. Like, it is. It is the chance to pop the tarp off a little bit and. And have at it. So I can. I can identify with that. I just had this realization when you were talking about Mike White, too. Is he the Mike McCarthy then, of show creators, where an immediate success has given way to an offense that basically demands that the players go out there and continue to make incredible plays while not really making a ton for them?
- [45:29]
A
He is absolutely Mike McCarthy because he also gets massages at work.
- [45:35]
C
I forgot about that.
- [45:36]
B
Oh, man. That's right.
- [45:37]
C
What a deep cut. Yeah.
- [45:39]
B
Great pull.
- [45:40]
C
Yeah.
- [45:40]
B
It's like you do this for work.
- [45:41]
C
I hate massages, by the way. Hate them.
- [45:45]
A
I. I could. I could not feel more differently.
- [45:48]
C
So uncomfortable the whole time.
- [45:50]
A
Unshocking revelation from you. But.
- [45:53]
C
And then they're always like, it. What is the equivalent of this? Where you're, like, there to get your back work done or whatever? And then they're like, you're so tense. And I'm like, you're making me more tense by pointing out how tense I am.
- [46:07]
A
My last thought about White Lotus is that all I want from a show is for it to care about its story as much as the subreddit does.
- [46:14]
C
Oh, my God.
- [46:15]
A
Just match the energy. If people are going to care about you as if you're writing the goddamn Da Vinci Code, then, like, just try to meet the standard or signal that you're not.
- [46:25]
C
I heard a screech in episode two that paired with the painting, and there's this corner of it where you see a monkey pointing a finger. And what if that finger turns out to be the gun?
- [46:34]
A
And I've heard the monkey has the gun theory as well.
- [46:37]
C
Oh, that's my Reddit voice.
- [46:39]
B
I don't. I don't think I want any show to care as much as the Reddit does. I'd like you to care as much as Twitter does if you stop there. Because the Reddit you get into. You know, Ted Lasso had a subreddit thread that was just a nightmarish group.
- [46:52]
A
Of people, and every subreddit does turn on the thing. It loves 100% podcasting as well.
- [46:57]
B
100.
- [46:58]
C
Do you have a subreddit?
- [46:59]
A
I do, but it's sparsely populated and I have never acknowledged that it exists until now.
- [47:04]
C
I have one that's just like.
- [47:07]
A
That's just. Just waiting to look at this photo of your eyeball.
- [47:15]
B
Show us the rocks.
- [47:18]
A
Mina's showing rods. She's showing rods on the chat for free.
- [47:22]
C
Better rods than cones.
- [47:39]
A
At the end of every episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out a show about finding out stuff. We talk about what we found out. Mike Olik Jr. Would you like to go first?
- [47:46]
B
I found out that we can actually put a price on a name, and for George Foreman's, it was $148 million.
- [47:55]
C
I found out that male TikTok sounds like exactly the same nightmarish hellhole that female TikTok is. Yeah, right.
- [48:04]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I found out that part of me believes that a show with a character named Guy Talk could have been a Guy Talk. Could have been a Guy Talk. Shorter, punchier. Didn't need to waste all of our time. Also, that when we think about how you monetize what it means to, like, put your name on something, I do want to pour some out for Natalie.
- [48:30]
C
Natalie.
- [48:31]
A
Natalie Foreman, wherever you are, just know that I. I think you deserve. You deserve your own legacy.
- [48:41]
C
What if her nickname is Georgina.
- [48:45]
B
Or just straight up George?
- [48:47]
C
George. That would be a great bit.
- [48:48]
A
This is the Foreman family and all. An all Foreman family episode of the White Lotus, Pablo Torre finds out is produced by Walter Abaroma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Dawig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, neely Loman, Rob McRae, Rachel Miller, Howard, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, Chris Tominiello and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RG Systems. Our sound design by NGW Post. Our theme song, as always, is by John Bravo. We will talk to you next time, Sam.