Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: Share & Jailbait & Tell with Mike Schur and Jessica Smetana
Date: November 21, 2025
Featured guests: Mike Schur (TV writer/producer), Jessica Smetana (journalist/host)

Episode Overview

This episode dives headfirst into a sensational media and journalism scandal centered around Olivia Nuzzi (often mispronounced throughout as "Newsy"). The trio—Pablo Torre, Mike Schur, and Jessica Smetana—dissect an intricate web of personal and professional entanglements spanning high-profile journalists, political figures, and the changing incentives of journalism. The conversation unfolds with biting wit and sincere concern about the state of media ethics, ultimately climaxing in the reveal and analysis of a long-lost pop song, "Jailbait," from Nuzzi's teenage years, which serves as a strange lens through which to view her current persona and the spectacle of modern media.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Olivia Nuzzi Saga: Scandal, Affairs, and Journalism’s Red Lines

• Introduction of the Main Story
  • Olivia Nuzzi, known for penetrating political profiles, becomes the media’s main character after details emerge of her romantic entanglements with men she covered, including Keith Olbermann, Ryan Lizza, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and—most shockingly—Mark Sanford.
  • "This story … what the fuck is journalism anymore?" — Pablo Torre (06:08)
• Mike Schur’s Hollywood Logline
  • Mike describes the situation as too implausible for TV, requiring massive simplification.
  • “If this screenplay were turned into a studio executive, … the first no would be like, ‘way, way too over the top. You gotta strip out half of these characters. No one will believe this.’” — Mike Schur (06:43)
• Chronology and Cast of the Affair
  • Nuzzi’s complex relationships: dated Olbermann, then Lizza (both with significant age gaps), emotional digital affair with RFK Jr. during campaign coverage, and the bombshell revelation of an affair with Mark Sanford.
  • “She had crossed a journalistic red line. How could we write a book about the presidential campaign if Olivia had a sexual relationship with one of the candidates?” — Ryan Lizza (as quoted by Pablo Torre) (10:44)
• Meta-Connections and Satirical Mirroring
  • The group finds humor and meta-irony in their own proximity to various figures in the scandal. Mike Schur reveals he based a “Parks and Rec” character on Mark Sanford.
  • “He was just having four-way sex in a cave in Brazil. It was based entirely on Sanford, who at the time we thought was the funniest version of those guys because the lie was so outrageous.” — Mike Schur (12:46)
• Reactions to the Scandal's Media Treatment
  • The story’s meme-ification, think pieces, and the “main character-ification” of journalism are recurring themes.
  • “We are eating it up.” — Mike Schur (25:02)

2. Reflections on Nuzzi’s Writing & Legacy

• Is Nuzzi Actually Good?
  • Jess presents extended excerpts from Nuzzi’s writing (about Trump and others), questioning its literary merit; Pablo sees satirical intent, Mike appreciates its performative and profile-as-politics ethos.
  • “Her writing is kind of bad.” — Jess (16:51)
  • “She seemed to understand that political writing was no longer Woodward and Bernstein, but was essentially a celebrity profile … She had this kind of like faux poetic style … It just worked.” — Mike (20:21)
• Ethics, Shamelessness, and Modern Journalism
  • The group traces the story to broader trends: journalism as a path to notoriety, not truth-telling; the collapse of ethical boundaries between journalists and subjects; and the perverse rewards for shamelessness in the attention economy.
  • “Shamelessness is a market inefficiency these days.” — Pablo Torre, quoted by Mike Schur (23:13)
  • “Celebrity is the same as credibility too.” — Jess (26:23)

3. Who Is Attracted to Modern Journalism?

• Personality As Product

  • Pablo introduces the notion that the evolving media landscape now attracts those seeking fame and narrative control, not mere reporting.
  • The episode reveals Nuzzi’s origins as “Livy,” a 16-year-old pop aspirant, complete with a cringey (and, in hindsight, foreshadowing) song called “Jailbait” and dramatic MySpace persona.
  • “This is the thing that a lot of journalist friends of mine have been saying, which is … they were raised to know, to understand that you are never the story. And Olivia Newsy is clearly [thinking] ‘How do I get to be the story?’” — Mike Schur (34:18)

• Spotlight on “Jailbait”: Cultural and Personal Implications

  • The group reads and analyzes the song’s lyrics and the accompanying MySpace bio, finding uncomfortable resonances between youthful provocation and later real-life choices.
  • Jess voices discomfort at the blurred boundaries between performance and life:
    • “We're talking about a person who's been in, like, multiple relationships with large age gaps. And the song is called Jail Bait, … This is like, past the level of like, ‘Oh, this is funny and embarrassing.’ This is like an actual, like, crime that she's singing about.” (37:29)
  • Pablo reminds listeners that all confirmed relationships began after Nuzzi reached adulthood, but the symbolism and character arc seem tragically on-the-nose.

4. Meta-Analysis: The State of Journalism & Public Life

• From Watchdog to Main Character
  • Mike laments the collapse of journalistic objectivity and the reversal of roles: “The whole point of this was … there’s a wall between the people doing stuff and the people writing about that stuff. And the wall will never be cracked or broken. … The relationship is entirely flipped. And now the politicians are telling the journalists what to say and what to do.” (40:30)
• The New Incentives
  • Pablo and Jess reflect on the impossibility of teaching aspiring journalists to avoid making themselves the story, as fame and notoriety have become the most reliable paths to longevity in the industry.
  • “It’s very hard. I don’t know if that's a lesson that you can still teach people in college—that they will not be lasting long in the media world if they want to be the story … This seems like a really sure fire way to not go away in this industry.” — Jess (47:04)
• Epstein-ian Parallels & Journalistic Corruption
  • Jess references the “shamelessness as political weapon” email in the Jeffrey Epstein dump (52:39).
  • Mike critiques the practice of journalists saving information for personal gain (books, notoriety), further eroding the public trust.

5. Conclusion: The Blurring of Art, Person, and Persona

• Pablo’s Final Take
  • The “Jailbait” song is seen as both embarrassing relic and prelude to a career that makes personal narrative the core of public persona.
  • “If you see her as this person, as this truly American figure who’s trying to write and rewrite her own story to maximize impact and visibility and celebrity, as her 16-year-old self tried to articulate, you see this whole song … as like the precursor to the ongoing experiment of American media in 2025. And I'm like, I think all of this is fair game. I think all this is very funny. I think all this again is infuriating because there are people who aren’t doing it this way and they fundamentally are being left behind.” — Pablo Torre (50:32)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the state of journalism:
  • “Notoriety is better than quality.” — Mike Schur (26:26)
• On the “main character” problem:
  • “The divide here is that they were raised to know, to understand that you are never the story. And Olivia Newsy is clearly [thinking] ‘How do I get to be the story?’” — Mike Schur (34:18)
• On Nuzzi’s “Jailbait” Myspace page:
  • “Livy is a pop chorus. Livy is a rock ballad. Livy is a hip hop beat. Livy is the past, Livy is the future. Livy is now and she’s about to blow your mind.” (37:29)
• On the incentives of media:
  • “We’re all creators. Mike is a creator. Jess, you’re a creator. I am a creator. Livy as a creator. Donald Trump is a creator. We’re all like people with like, things that we want others to consume.” — Pablo Torre (43:22)
• On shamelessness:
  • “Shamelessness is a market inefficiency these days.” — Pablo Torre via Mike Schur (23:13)
• On the “Jailbait” song:
  • “You might even say that this song, Jess, is a bit of an earworm.” — Pablo Torre (56:05)
  • “Low key slaps.” — Mike Schur (56:05)

Important Timestamps

• 03:20 - Podcast proper begins; Pablo announces the hot topic: the Olivia Nuzzi affair(s) and media scandal.
• 06:08–12:46 - Story breakdown: Olbermann, Lizza, RFK Jr., Sanford, New York Times glowing profile, and the details from Ryan Lizza’s substack.
• 16:45–21:28 - Dissecting Nuzzi’s writing; debate about her literary value and satirical intent.
• 22:31–26:26 - Modern journalism’s perverse incentives; shamelessness and notoriety as currency.
• 29:22–37:29 - Exploring Nuzzi’s MySpace persona and pop song “Jailbait”; reading and reflecting on her bio and lyrics.
• 40:30–42:43 - Big-picture ethics crisis: the death of the journalistic wall.
• 47:04 - The futility of telling newcomers not to make themselves the story.
• 50:32 - Pablo’s summing-up; the “art project” of Nuzzi’s career.
• 56:09 - Finale; “Jailbait” as the ultimate “earworm”.

Tone and Style

The conversation is sharp, wryly self-aware, and occasionally incredulous. Mike Schur brings narrative clarity and wry amusement; Jess Smetana adds cultural perspective and ethical concern; Pablo Torre is both ringmaster and moral commentator, periodically breaking the fourth wall to underscore the absurd spectacle. The entire episode is steeped in satirical observation—earnest about the stakes but unafraid of gallows humor.

Summary for New Listeners

This episode explores how a sensational personal scandal, in which a prominent journalist becomes entangled with her political subjects, unravels foundational assumptions about media ethics, journalistic incentives, and the drive for notoriety in the digital age. Through sharp discussion, the hosts track how performance, persona, and public narrative have overtaken traditional reporting—culminating in a cringe-turned-cautionary tale, courtesy of an unearthed teen pop song. The result: a reflection on fame, ethics, and why journalism today may only rarely serve its intended purpose—though it never fails to entertain.