Share & MMAmerica & Tell with Wyatt Cenac and Tim Miller

Summary

Pablo Torre Finds Out – "Share & MMAmerica & Tell"

Guests: Wyatt Cenac, Tim Miller
Date: March 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the collision of sports, politics, and spectacle in America, focusing on the Trump administration's infusion of MMA machismo into government leadership. Pablo Torre is joined by comedian Wyatt Cenac and political journalist Tim Miller for a conversation that ranges from bizarre government appointments and rumors of political affairs (with a blanket as key “evidence”), to a deep (and hilarious) dissection of the new Secretary of Homeland Security’s MMA credentials. Along the way, there’s a running commentary on the performative violence and "playing soldier" culture that now permeates American politics.

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Episode Structure & Key Segments

1. Stephen A. Smith’s (Non-)Presidential Aspirations

Timestamps: 03:05 – 05:06

• Summary: The episode opens with a callback joke to a previous episode in which Wyatt was supposedly Stephen A. Smith’s campaign manager for President. Recent developments confirm Smith is not running, mostly because, as he learned, the presidency would require giving up his money.
• Notable Quote:

  "Apparently I would have to give up my money if I became president. Like, that tells you just how unserious the whole thing is, that this is the moment that he just learned that."
  — Wyatt Cenac (04:02)

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2. Sean Hannity’s Podcast and MMA Persona

Timestamps: 05:06 – 06:26

• Summary: Discussion shifts to Sean Hannity’s attempt to enter the podcast space and his awkward foray into MMA performance, including a memory of Hannity grappling on camera with Chuck Liddell.
• Memorable Moment:

  "[Hannity’s MMA segment] felt like when a child wants to show their parent they're good at soccer... Instead it’s him elbowing a boxing dummy."
  — Wyatt Cenac (05:35)

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3. Who’s Actually an MMA Expert Here?

Timestamps: 06:26 – 07:26

• Summary: Tim Miller and Wyatt humorously confess to not being MMA experts, with Tim joking about the gay community preferring WWE’s theatrics to “pure bloodsport.” Pablo argues that watching two men in underpants embrace is, perhaps, more “on brand” for Tim than he’d thought.

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4. Kristi Noem, Corey Lewandowski, and the “Blanket Gate” Scandal

Timestamps: 07:56 – 16:03

• Summary: Tim provides an extended rundown of the Kristi Noem saga: her rise to Secretary of Homeland Security, rumored affair with Trump operative Corey Lewandowski, and the expensive, performative, and controversial management of the department—including the infamous “shared blanket” incident and luxury deportation jets.
• Notable Quotes:

  "At that Benihana, Corey Lewandowski got hammered...Christy was getting mad at him, texting him under the table."
  — Tim Miller (09:18)
  "They showed a picture of the bed...I would say it’s kind of like a Hampton Inn—in the sky."
  — Tim Miller (14:53, 15:06)

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5. Ostentatious Politics: Government as Performance

Timestamps: 16:03 – 20:36

• Summary: The conversation addresses the rise of “snuff film-style” political ads and the transformation of serious government positions into vehicles for social-media-driven performance. They highlight how the true audience now appears to be Twitter/X, not the American people.
• Notable Quote:

  "[Kristi Noem] was trying to do like evil Barbie style aesthetics everywhere. I think that it is totally legitimate to mock that."
  — Tim Miller (17:27)

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6. Enter Markwayne Mullin: From Pseudo-MMA to the Senate

Timestamps: 20:36 – 33:10

• Summary:
  The episode pivots to Markwayne Mullin, the new Secretary of Homeland Security, best known for trying to start a fight in a Senate hearing and touting a dubious record as a former MMA fighter. The group crack wise about his padded record (including choking out a teenager named “Huggy Bear”), his performative tough-guy schtick, and his questionable military credentials (“stolen valor”).
• Notable Quotes:

  "He was 30 in...semi pro MMA...It kind of feels like somebody playing in the company softball league, winning three championships, then running for the Senate and being like ‘I was a softball champion’."
  — Tim Miller (30:46)
  "Can you smell war from afar? ...I’m gonna say no."
  — Wyatt Cenac (32:54)

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7. Performative Violence and the MMA-ization of U.S. Politics

Timestamps: 33:10 – 39:36

• Summary: They reflect on the blurring lines between real and fake violence in modern politics, the “play soldier” mentality, and how the current administration’s ICE/immigration policies are being administered by “cosplayers” and minor celebrities. The discussion also anticipates an actual MMA event being held at the White House as part of the Trump administration’s 250th birthday celebration for America.
• Notable Quote:

  "Really, we’re going to have an MMA fight on the lawn to celebrate our 250th and it is idiocracy...the MMA culture is very wrapped up in this administration."
  — Tim Miller (39:36)

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8. Key Insights & What the Panel "Found Out"

Timestamps: 41:47 – 44:34

• Tim Miller:

  "I learned a lot about Huggy Bear and the kind of semi pro Oklahoma MMA culture that Markwayne Mullin came out of...Maybe I’d understand my country a little bit better if I learned even more about what was happening on Triller."
  (41:56)

• Wyatt Cenac:

  "The person who’s best qualified to do anything about border security might have been the bouncer in that Senate hearing, Bernie Sanders."
  (42:24)
  (Followed by a running gag about Bernie Sanders as nightclub bouncer or hockey fight referee.)

• Pablo Torre:

  "What I found out today ... is that Frank Ocean did, in fact, apparently eight months ago, post an Instagram story update of rumored boyfriend Peyton Talbot, in a position in which...What would you describe Peyton Talbot doing to Felipe Lima in this screenshot?"
  Wyatt: "Oh, he's eating that ass."
  Pablo: "That is just objective ass eating."
  (44:10)

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Memorable and Funny Moments

• The Blanket Scandal: The group’s comic disbelief over the “shared special blanket” as alleged evidence of an affair, and the fired pilot who mishandled it.
• Huggy Bear: The saga of Mullin’s teenage MMA opponent (and the semantics of “Huggy”), which Pablo and Wyatt dissect in detail.
• Bernie Sanders as Security: The suggestion that Bernie’s intervention in the Senate fight qualifies him for Head of Homeland Security or as an elite bouncer.
• Frank Ocean’s Instagram: The closing sequence, confirming the viral rumor involving MMA fighter Peyton Talbot and a meme-able leg position.

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Takeaways & Themes

• The current political climate elevates spectacle and performance above real expertise — with government roles filled for TV optics, “alpha” branding, or “owning libs” online.
• The boundaries between sports entertainment and governance are dissolving, to the point where the White House is set to feature MMA fights as patriotic theater.
• Actual policy change is minimal; what’s new is the “performative sadism” and the disregard for the dignity of roles once considered serious and important.
• Humor and satire are necessary tools for processing just how much the line between reality TV and reality has blurred in American life.

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Highlight Quotes by Timestamp

• On Kristi Noem’s priorities:

  "All she cared about was aesthetics. She was trying to do like evil Barbie style aesthetics everywhere."
  — Tim Miller (17:27)

• On the motorcycle-tough politics:

  "If he had real balls, he would have done gone full Will Smith, like, get down there. Like, don’t stand up and pretend to fight."
  — Tim Miller (24:57)

• On performative state violence:

  "A lot of the people that our government is sending into the streets...to do immigration enforcement are playing pretend. Yes, we have, you know, former Superman Dean Cain signed up to join ICE. That’s the type of... person that we’re..."
  — Tim Miller (33:41)

• On social media as the real political audience:

  "Way too often the only logical audience I can discern is Twitter is X. Yeah. And it's all these people doing stuff...for social media, explicitly."
  — Pablo Torre (19:20)

• On MMA and politics merging:

  "The MMA culture is very wrapped up in this administration...they think it gives them an aura of toughness."
  — Tim Miller (39:36)

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Episode Mood & Tone

• Satirical, skeptical, incredulous: The panel maintains a half-horrified, half-amused detachment toward the collapse of any boundaries between politics-as-governance and politics-as-performative-professional-wrestling.
• Pop culture literate: Frequent allusions to memes, Instagram drama, and MMA fandom.
• Lighthearted but darkly serious: Underlying all the jokes is real concern about the implications of having “cosplayers” and “hotheads” in charge of state power.

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Closing Thoughts

If you missed the episode, you’d come away knowing not just about the cast of bizarre characters running some of the most powerful institutions in the U.S., but also with insight into why American politics increasingly feels like a mix of trashy reality TV, minor league fight cards, and meme warfare—and why that’s both amusing and profoundly alarming.

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Listen for:

• The “shared blanket” and “Huggy Bear” gags
• Bernie Sanders as crowd control icon
• The sly dig that "evil Barbie" may be the most accurate label for a cabinet secretary
• Satirical but very real concerns about what comes next—when politics is indistinguishable from MMA.

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Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. Presented by Ebay Live, I am Pablo Torre. And today you're gonna find out what this sound is.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, he's eating that ass right after this ad.

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[Pablo Torre]

So before we jump into today's episode, a quick shout out to our sponsor, EBAY Live. Ebay Live is where real time excitement meets rare exclusive, hard to find cards, collectible sneakers, watches, and so much more. You can, you can bid in live auctions, catch exclusive drops, buy directly from trusted sellers. While it is all happening live and it feels fun and interactive like a show, not just shopping with great hosts, creators and streamers. So download the ebay app and tap the Ebay Live button to tune in today. This episode of Pablo Torre Finds out is brought to you by Bill, the intelligent finance platform that helps businesses and accounting firms scale with proven results. If you run a business or manage finances for your clients, you you know how much goes into payments both into and out of your account. It can be stressful and tough to keep track of every little thing. But luckily Bill is changing that. With AI powered automation, Bill removes the busy work from your accounts payable workflow they handle. Capturing invoices, routing approvals and syncing with your accounting software so that your team can focus on growth instead of paperwork. And with over 90 of the top 100 US accounting firms trusting Bill to simplify and secure Bill Bill pay processes, you know you're getting the best. So Stop the guesswork and start scaling with the proven choice. Go with the company that has securely processed over a trillion dollars in real transactions, simplifying financial operations for nearly half a million customers. And if you are ready to talk with an expert, visit bill.comproven and get a $250 gift card as a thank you. That's bill.comproven. I last gathered us here because, and you may recall this because Wyatt was going to be Stephen A. Smith's campaign manager.

[Wyatt Snack]

I don't know that I agree with that. That sounds like fake news.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, we did polling.

[Tim Miller]

Wyatt was very hostile to Stephen A. Smith, 2028.

[Wyatt Snack]

That sounds very true.

[Tim Miller]

As I recall. I was like sas slightly curious, not pro at all.

[Pablo Torre]

You were Stephen A. Smart. That's right.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. I just, like, I want to. I just, I just want to walk this idea around the block a little bit, kick the tires on it. Obviously, Wyatt's instinct on that was much more correct than mine. I'm a big enough man to say that there was no need to kick the tires on it.

[Pablo Torre]

And I wish I could take credit for summoning you both back on an emergency podcast level because Stephen A. Has declared. I've thought about that presidency thing, and maybe I don't think you're running.

[Wyatt Snack]

Am I right?

[Pablo Torre]

I don't think I'm running either, because I got to give him my money. I can tell you right now. Let me put that presidential aspiration. If I have to give up my money, it's not happening.

[Wyatt Snack]

Yeah. I just learned that apparently I would have to give up my money if I became president. Like, that tells you just how unserious the whole thing is, that this is the moment that he just learned that that's part of becoming president.

[Pablo Torre]

Tim, did you see the clip? Did you notice the setting and to whom he said this to in his big announcement?

[Tim Miller]

It was Sean Hannity. Correct?

[Pablo Torre]

It was on Hang out with Sean Hannity, Sean Hannity's new podcast.

[Tim Miller]

He's coming into our space.

[Pablo Torre]

I was going to say, I was

[Tim Miller]

going to say Hannity's like, I want to compete in the long form interview game. And I got to say I knew. I got to know Sean a little bit back when I was a Republican 100 years ago. And I just don't think that's his strength. And I think that Stephen A. Should probably play to his strength, which is yelling at people on tv.

[Wyatt Snack]

So.

[Tim Miller]

That's right. He's going. He's like, learned that. I think that Sean will probably learn after like eight episodes of this Podcast that he should go back to his strength, which is also demagoguery on television, not long form conversation.

[Wyatt Snack]

You say that, but the thing that I can never forget about Sean Hannity is there was an episode of Hannity where he sat down with Chuck Liddell.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Wyatt Snack]

And took Chuck Liddell to his home to show him his workout room and grapple with Chuck Liddell.

[Pablo Torre]

Chuck is known for this overhead killing knockout punch. Listen, I love you, man. I'm your biggest fan. Last thing I ever wanted. If you hit me, I'm in the hospital.

[Wyatt Snack]

And it very much felt like when a child wants to show their parent they're good at soccer, where it's like, watch me. Watch me kick the ball, Chuck. Watch me kick the ball. And it's just. Instead it's him, like, just trying, like, elbow moves on one of those boxing dummies.

[Pablo Torre]

Sean Hannity has also made an aesthetic choice to wear a backwards cap.

[Tim Miller]

Right?

[Wyatt Snack]

Yes.

[Tim Miller]

Right?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Wyatt Snack]

Yeah, it's so.

[Pablo Torre]

I wish, by the way, that that was the extent of the MMA we're here to talk about on the show.

[Wyatt Snack]

We're here to talk more mma. And you got at least one super expert on mma. I hope that's you, Tim, because I've never actually.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, no. I was hoping it was you. No, no, I'm a homosexual. I don't know. I'm not thinking about mia, Tim. I got wrestling. Gays. Gays do kind of like wwe because there's, like. There's a camp to it.

[Wyatt Snack]

Sure.

[Tim Miller]

Just the pure blood sport without the acting, without the theater element to it.

[Wyatt Snack]

There's no gold dust. There's no gold dust. That's in MMA.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Mr. Perfect.

[Wyatt Snack]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

It's not an MMA. I know enough to be dangerous, I guess. Not an expert, though.

[Pablo Torre]

No, Tim, I dare say that mixed martial arts, which is fundamentally a sport in which two men are literally embracing as much as humanly possible in their underpants. In their underpants. Maybe more within your province than you've ever dreamed.

[Tim Miller]

Well, I do have to tell you, Peyton Talbot, he's an mma. There's some rumors that he was in a fling with Frank Ocean. I don't know if that's true, so I don't want to make any accusations or anything.

[Pablo Torre]

I like this rumor, though, the accusations.

[Tim Miller]

I don't want to make any compliments of either of them because it would be a beautiful thing if it were true. But I did do a deep dive on Peyton's social media account after hearing that rumor, and it's pretty good. I can see the appeal, I can

[Pablo Torre]

only repeat what Reddit is telling me, which is that they were hanging out on Valentine's Day.

[Tim Miller]

There you go.

[Pablo Torre]

I want to start, Wyatt, with a different example, though, of Tim Miller's experience with physical combat. Okay, I want to walk us there. And so the Kristi Noem thing. Let's just start with the big headline and then walk us to the octagon that Tim Miller entered with a character relevant to Kristi Noem. Tim, if you were to catch people up on what happened to Kristi Noem, the head of which department, and in what context was that department in the news recently?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, so Kristi Noem, former governor of South Dakota, became secretary of the Department of Homeland Security. She was a big Donald Trump supporter. She did everything possible to get into his good graces, including whether this was part of getting into his good graces or not. One thing that happened simultaneously to that was she did also get a new face, which was an interesting choice. And so she gets a role in the Cabinet, as she had been aspiring to do. She brings along with her Corey Lewandow, downtown's first campaign manager in 2016. Corey, a longtime Trump hanger on. He got fired from that job as campaign manager originally, but he sticks around

[Pablo Torre]

a big season one character that I forgot until I was like, oh, wait a minute, the Corey Lewandowski thing is happening again with Kristi Noem.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, he's back. Season seven. Yeah, he just kind of stayed around the hoop looking for opportunities. And so he gets back in with Kristi Noem. A lot of discussion that they may be having an affair, a lot of rumors about that she is married. He was at a fundraiser being thrown by MAGA donors. It was an addiction awareness fundraiser, was being thrown by MAGA donors at a Benihana in Las Vegas. And at that Benihana, Corey Lewandowski got hammered, started hitting on one of the wives of one of the big Trump donors. And Christie was also there, and Christy was getting mad at him, texting him under the table. And a lot of people are wondering, why does Christy care so much that Corey is behaving poorly towards this other woman? And kind of that led down a path towards, I think, some pretty strong feelings that they might be intimate. So they go together, maybe lovers, maybe not, to the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees, among other things, ICE and cbp. The Border Patrol, among other things, includes also the tsa. So if you're annoyed about TSA or the long lines, that's another thing. It wasn't Kristi Noem's. Remit. It seemed like a pretty good job for her. This was a high priority for Trump, deporting people, Immigration and Border Patrol. And yet Christie, like, went even a little too far for Trump. She was spending a lot of money recklessly. Her and Corey were flying around on like these hundred million dollar jets. They spent like $200 million on advertisements about all the work that they were doing deporting people. Trump gets pissed and he gets. And she gets fired. How's that? Is that a good summary?

[Pablo Torre]

That's an excellent summary. And really, before I play some of the tape from what is an increasingly rare sight, which is something like a member of a Trump cabinet answering questions in a meaningful.

[Tim Miller]

From Republicans.

[Pablo Torre]

From Republicans in a, like, beyond the pale. Holy, this seems bad. If she has to do this sort of a way. Tammy, in your estimation, the reason she had to resign, in the pie chart of that, how much of that was American citizens got killed in Minnesota versus the stuff that we're going to really sort of dig into, which is more of the circus element.

[Tim Miller]

I think American citizens getting killed in Minnesota was like 1% of the reason why she got fired. And I do think it's important that it was 1%, not zero, because I think that she was probably on the path to getting fired regardless. But I do think that, like, the degree of the show that it was in Minnesota, not to, not to make a lot. I mean, you know, killing two people is worse than a show. But, like, the degree of, like, just how it seemed like they didn't have any control over what was happening, I do think that, like, kind of led to the spiral that brought all this other stuff that actually made Trump mad to light. And so I think that it was kind of a catalyst for it. But, you know, had she, you know, been minding her P's and Q's in other ways, not offending Mr. Trump in other ways, she probably could have survived it. I mean, Stephen Miller is still there and he was overseeing this immigration action as well. And so I think that what ended up getting her was that Trump, Trump doesn't like it when he's like, wait a minute, you were spending $200 million to do ads about yourself? And like, what you were doing, like, what about me? What about Mr. Trump? You know what I mean? And I think that, like, she was embarrassing him, which ends up being kind of the bigger issue than the deaths.

[Pablo Torre]

I would say These Q&As from the Kristi Noem hearing in front of Congress, they're worth watching.

[Congressional Questioner]

So Secretary Noem, at any time during your tenure as director of Department of Homeland Security, have you had sexual relations with Corey Lewandowski? Mr. Chairman, I am shocked that we're going down and peddling tabloid garbage in this committee today. Reclaiming and ma', am, one thing that I would tell you is that he is a special government employee who works for the White House. There are thousands of them in the federal government. So reclaiming as an advisor, it is okay for you to be no authority, okay for you to question, but it is also a real question. So what I would say, and you should be able to answer, what we do at the Department of Homeland Security every single day and without any hesitation every single day, is to protect. If someone is asking you or any federal official is sleeping with their subordinate, that should be the easiest. You should be wanting to answer that question because it is not about your senses that you have brought. It is about your judgment. So that kind of garbage about reclaiming my.

[Pablo Torre]

I think it's very important to always clock when you're watching someone under questioning is. Is there a no at any point in that? Are you saying no?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. So it's hard to feel bad for anybody. It's like signed up for this, but you got to kind of feel bad for. I mean, being cheated on for Corey Lewandowski is tough.

[Pablo Torre]

That was.

[Tim Miller]

That is tough.

[Pablo Torre]

I want, I want.

[Tim Miller]

It's not like. It's not like Peter, you know, it's not like one of the handsomer people of the administration.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, the vehicle at the center of this. I just want to be very clear because there is so much being said. We were talking about these luxury airliners that were allegedly being purchased for a nine figure amount that had bedrooms in them that were supposedly being used for deportations. But many were wondering, is this just a plane for Kristi Gnomen?

[Tim Miller]

Corey Many were wondering that. I don't think that I'm among them because it's an image that I've been trying to avoid thinking about. But they showed during the hearing. I don't know if you have this. They showed a picture of the bed

[Pablo Torre]

and I'm like, oh, what's the. What's the. What's the aesthetic of the deportation?

[Tim Miller]

I would say it's kind of like. Kind of like a Hampton Inn.

[Wyatt Snack]

Oh, all right.

[Pablo Torre]

Imagine a Hampton Inn, but in the sky.

[Tim Miller]

In the sky. Yeah, I would say that was kind of the aesthetic. There was also a controversy. Like one of the sub controversies here was that Corey and Christy were mad at one of the pilots because they'd left their special blanket plane.

[Pablo Torre]

I forgot about the blankie.

[Tim Miller]

Like, I don't want to. I don't want to know what's going on under that blankie.

[Pablo Torre]

We're about to repatriate this blankie.

[Wyatt Snack]

Wait, it was their special blanket, or did one of them. Because I feel like that's all the evidence you need. If it's like, it's our shared special blanket. I think. I feel like that's his position.

[Tim Miller]

It's Christie's. I think his position is Cory was upset that the secretary did not have her special blanket.

[Wyatt Snack]

Gotcha. Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

And the pilot, this U.S. coast Guard pilot did get fired subsequent to Blanket Gates, as it became known for, however fleetingly.

[Wyatt Snack]

That's right.

[Pablo Torre]

It's almost a side concern because we gotta get to the back to the MMA of it. The side concern was, oh, yeah, there was this 200 million doll plus deal to film these. Absurd. I mean, absurd. I'm doing justice to it. But these ads that Tim was referencing before for Kristi Noman when she's on horseback absorbing the glory of this country. And the contractor that got this thing was this obscure company that was subcontracted to Tim, a company that was run by who?

[Tim Miller]

The husband of Kristi gnome's spokesperson, Trisha

[Pablo Torre]

McLaughlin, who you may recall from the time that Trisha McGoughlin gave. Pablo Torre finds out a quote about the soccer player Jerce Reyes that we reported on, who was again, insanely and seemingly indefensibly deported to seekat in El Salvador, in which she insisted, quote, jersey Reyes Barrios was not only in the United States legally, but he has tattoos that are consistent with those indicating trend gang membership. His own social media indicates he is a member of the vicious TDA gang. That all said DHS intelligence assessments go beyond a single tattoo. We are confident in our findings. End quote. As you reported on that episode, the tattoo that seemed to be one of this vicious gang's famous symbols was, in fact a real Madrid tattoo that lots of people otherwise can't.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, huge Madrid fans in the gang culture in Caracas. And these guys were liars all the way down. And so it's. It's good for her to get her comeuppance. And that story that you tied to, I mean, Kristi Noemi, like, you mentioned that the ads, like, were ridiculous and, like, her and all the hats and the horses, but, like, she also did all the propaganda, such as where she went to Sakat in El Salvador, you'll remember, and she stood in front of this cell filled with like shirtless. We now know El Salvadorans because they'd kept the Venezuelans in a different part of the prison. But she just stood for these like snuff film style pictures where she was all made up. You know, you hate to do like the focus on the aesthetics, talking about how. But like, this is all she cared about was aesthetics. Like she was trying to do like evil Barbie style aesthetics everywhere. I think that it is totally legitimate to mock that and to take some comfort, even though I don't think that the Trump administration's ICE regime is going to get that much better. But take some comfort in the fact that she at least has been shown the door.

[Wyatt Snack]

It is a weird thing, just the sort of social media driven nature of what she was doing. I believe last week, tonight, did a whole thing on it where you see them arrest these guys, but they actually didn't have grounds to do it. But when you see like another camera's footage, all it is is just them setting up a social media shoot. And it feels. And on some level there's a part of me where I'm like, is Donald Trump mad about that or is he just mad because she got. She spent 200 million on this? And I'm sure he's like, and now Melania is mad because I only got 70 million for. For her documentary. Ah. Now I'm going to have to somehow scrounge up another 130 million for somebody to put her in Tomb Raider.

[Pablo Torre]

There is Tim, as always, like, the question of who is the audience that this administration thinks of when they make any decisions. And way too often the only logical audience I can discern is Twitter is X. Yeah. And it's all these people doing stuff. Wyatt. For social media, explicitly. Who are looking for the applause from the worst people left online.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. I mean, look, the Department of Homeland Security secretary, like, is not supposed to be like a media figure. It's not like that type of job. Right. I challenge the audience to like conjure a mental image of Jeh Johnson, for example, who is Obama's DHS secretary for four years.

[Pablo Torre]

It's the Cash Patel in the locker room thing. It's like this has never been a position that's done.

[Tim Miller]

You're the FBI director go after bad guys. Some of the jobs are meant for that. Secretary of State does have to speak publicly. You know what I mean? Like, like there are certain jobs that are public facing. Like, this is not that. It's. It's a Homeland Security job. The jobs about keeping us safe. And to have like this clownish woman having an affair, like, flying around the country, like, getting like, ridiculous plastic surgery, like, taking Cruella De Vil photos in front of immigrants that they have chained. Like, like the whole thing was just. Was ridiculous.

[Pablo Torre]

But before we look ahead to who replaces Kristi Noem, which is a relevant question, I want to look back for a second because the Corey Lewandowski thing that I was alluding to, the physical confrontation thing, I was alluding to Tim Corey Lewandowski as this caricature of a person who is this sort of goon for Donald Trump. That's how I knew him in season one. It's also how you encountered him, literally.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Well, now that you've brought this up, Pablo, people are gonna think that my assessment of Corey and Christy was personal. And let me tell you, it was not. Okay? This was a very. It was a minor encounter, and I'm a big boy. But I will say in 2016, during the debate, so before he's President Donald Trump, the candidate. So it's late during the primary and I'd worked for Jeb, and then I was working for an anti Trump super pac. And after debates, there's a spin room where the candidates go to and they talk to the media and try to spin. Sometimes candidates, sometimes just their representatives try to spin, like why they did well and why the other people did terrible. And in this case in 2016, I was following Trump around the spin room, like, kind of trolling him a little bit and getting in, inserting myself into the Q&As he was having. He was getting a little annoyed with me. And like, out of my peripheral vision, I saw what I thought was a security guard, like kind of a penis shaped security guard man who, like, came up and got in between me and Trump and like, hip checked me and then got nose to nose with me and started like, screaming, is really screaming in my face. And I don't remember what he said because I was kind of blacked out by the smell of his breath, which was really horrendous. And after it ended, I asked my colleague, I was like, who was that? Who was that? And they're like, that's Trump's campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski. I didn't recognize him at the time. I thought he was just a security guard. And so I think it was telling kind of about the type of campaign Trump had at the beginning that, like, the campaign manager serious job was also, like the heavy in the spin room. So there you go.

[Pablo Torre]

This is all really important context because the question has Been. Who is in charge of what has been an instrument of state sponsored violence. And it turns out.

[Tim Miller]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

Lingering around the periphery, perhaps in the alleged plane, is that guy, Corey Lewandowski. And so who replaces his alleged girlfriend, Christy Noem? It is a guy who I should say, I'd like to introduce via a clip of his own.

[Tim Miller]

Sir, this is a time. This is a place if you want

[Pablo Torre]

to run your mouth.

[Tim Miller]

We can be two consenting adults. We can finish it here.

[Wyatt Snack]

Okay, that's fine. Perfect.

[Tim Miller]

You want to do it now?

[Pablo Torre]

I'd love to do it right now.

[Tim Miller]

Well, stand your butt up then. You stand your butt up.

[Wyatt Snack]

Oh, hold on.

[Pablo Torre]

Stop it.

[Tim Miller]

Is that your solution every problem? No, no.

[Wyatt Snack]

Sit down.

[Tim Miller]

Sit down. Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

You know, you're a United States senator, active.

[Tim Miller]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

Sit down, please.

[Tim Miller]

All right, can I respond?

[Adam Grant]

Hold it, hold it.

[Pablo Torre]

Wyatt, could you introduce some of the characters that we just heard there in that scene?

[Tim Miller]

Sure.

[Wyatt Snack]

That was Mark Wayne Mullen, and that was a hearing where he was talking to the head of the Teamsters. And apparently the head of the Teamsters had said some not nice things about Mark Wayne Mullen on Twitter. That was not why they were having this hearing. It was not a hearing to present some litigate Twitter beef. Yeah. And so this is what Mark Wayne Mullen chose to use his time to do to challenge the head of the Teamsters that the two of them could fight. Mark Wayne Mullen then stood up as though he were serious. And then the fight was stopped by Bernie Sanders, which tells you just how unserious it was that they were stopped by the oldest man in the world who was just like, nope, nope, this isn't happening. And Mark Wayne Mullen, for all the pissing vinegar he had to stand up, was like, you're right, Bernie. Let me sit back down. If you were really about it, you would have hopped over that table and you'd have gone and made a fool out of yourself on national television. But you got sat the down by Bernie Sanders.

[Pablo Torre]

Mark Wade Mullen allowed himself to leave more space between himself and the head of the Teamsters than he does between the words Mark and Wayne in his first name.

[Tim Miller]

McQueen. McQueen. Yeah. I mean, if he had real balls, you know, he would have done gone full Will Smith, like, get down there. Like, don't stand. Don't stand up and pretend to fight. Don't do that. Don't do this nonsense, like, fake tough guy nonsense. Really cool. Let's throw hands. You were. He was never going to throw down in the middle of a hearing, okay? And if he was then let's see it. All right. It is little concerning and I think that's kind of the tie between him and Corey that like the types of people that you want in charge of something like Homeland Security, you know, where you have to like go after bad guys but also respect the rights of their citizens while you're managing public safety. I don't think you want hotheads, right? It's not, it's not really a job for hotheads.

[Pablo Torre]

If you think ebay is just a marketplace, you are missing a whole side of it. Ebay Live is where real time excitement meets rare, exclusive, hard to find cards, collectibles, sneakers, watches and so much more. You can bid in live auctions, catch exclusive drops and buy directly from trusted sellers while it is all happening live and it feels like a show, not just shopping with great hosts, creators and streamers. Stream, shop and score by downloading the ebay app and tapping the Ebay Live button right under the search bar when my daughter was born, my perspective on life changed in an instant. Suddenly my mind wasn't just thinking about what was for dinner tomorrow. I was thinking years ahead about childcare and her future college tuition and all the milestones that I couldn't wait to see. And the one thing that was constantly on my mind was what would happen to them if something happened to me. Part of loving my family meant thinking about their future, even in the uncomfortable ways. And while life insurance is not a fun topic, it is one that you need to think about. And that's why I am so glad I found out about Ethos. Ethos makes getting life insurance fast and easy and 100% online. You can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and get same day coverage. There's no medical exam, you just answer a few simple health questions. It is so simple that you really have no excuse to not check it out and know that you are going with the trusted Pros. As of March 2025, Business Insider named Ethos the number one no medical exam instant life insurance provider. Plus, Ethos has 4.8 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot with over 3, 000 reviews. So protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Now by going to ethos.comptfo in as little as 10 minutes, you can get your free quote and up to $3 million in [e-mail] that's ethos.comptfo ethos.comptfo application times and rates may vary. This episode of Pablo Torre Finds out is brought to you by Best Western Hotels and Resorts. Because look, we all took a spring break trip back in college. Big group of friends packing a small room, getting no sleep. But spring break is not what it used to be. It is even better. Adult spring break should be relaxing and rewarding. A few friends in their own beds enjoying simpler getaways and meaningful breaks. Whether you want to visit a city you've never been to or just get away to the great outdoors, a trip doesn't have to have a ton of planning. It can just be a quick last minute break from all of the insanity that comes with daily life in 2026. And whenever you need a getaway, Best Western is the place for you. With over 4,000 properties around the world, you can find a Best Western basically anywhere you want to go. This spring, stay three nights and get a $50 Best Western gift card. Visit BestWestern.com for complete terms and conditions. Life's a trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. That's BestWestern.com. If you were wondering, like perhaps that's just a bad moment for Mark Wayne. Maybe that's just, you know, he's a hothead, but whatever. That's like one thing to get a sense of his vibe, here's his campaign ad. Conservative Mark Wayne Mullen has always been a fighter. He knows the fight's worth having for God, for family and for country. Mark Wayne Mullen is a Christian, a husband, a father of six, a businessman who gets things done. The radical left is trying to transform our country and some are afraid of fighting those fights. Mark one Wayne. Well, he wins the fight.

[Tim Miller]

Mark Wayne Mullen, you don't want to fight with him. I'm Mark Wayne Mullen, candidate for Senate

[Pablo Torre]

and I approve this message. That was 2022 and I want to shout out the fact always that we are a sports show here at Pablo Torre finds out and Mark Wayne Mullen is, I believe and we'll fact check this as I say it, I believe this is the first MMA fighter to have been elected to the United States Senate.

[Wyatt Snack]

According to his stats, he is an undefeated fighter who either is 5, 0 or 3 0, depending on what sources you look at. He strong start when you.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, can't quite tell.

[Wyatt Snack]

In his late 20s. One of his fights was against a guy who goes by the name of Huggy Bear. And at the time Huggy Bear was a teenager. So I have a lot of questions around a man in his late 20s who choked out a teenager. But that counts as a victory, I suppose, according to Tapology, which is Where I go for all my MMA news. That's tapology.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Wyatt Snack]

Also, Huggy is spelled like the diapers, not like the character from Starsky and Hutch.

[Pablo Torre]

It's an important distinction.

[Wyatt Snack]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

I think you guys are giving a little bit too much credit. I know that we tried to be fair and balanced. When Pablo Torre finds out, and it's important to just lay out the facts, go where the investigation finds you, even if it's unappealing. But he was 30 in what appears to me to be like a semi pro MMA league. It's called xfn. It's based in Tulsa, and I don't know, it kind of feels like somebody playing in the company softball league, winning three championships and then running for the Senate and being like, I'm the first senator who was a softball champion.

[Pablo Torre]

There is a need for us to clarify here in Palatore finds out that we did send requests for comment to Huggy Bear and to Clint Bonds and to Lazaro Amaro, which is an incredible name that somehow finishes third on the medal stand. Of all the names we've mentioned already, we have not heard from any of them in time for our deadline. But it is worth noting also, Tim, that when it comes to. Is Mark Wayne Mullen, fighter, semi professional combat sports veteran, somebody who has embellished any part of his resume before, it is worth noting that his status as a military veteran, it seems, has also been under some scrutiny.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Pat Ryan, a Democratic congressman from New York. Shout out. Pat Ryan. I like him a lot. And he was going off on this because Mullen likes to just sort of. I kind of play cute with talking about, like, being in war. Like, he's talking about how he knows the smells of war and all this stuff when, like, this just isn't true. Like, he hasn't done any of that. And like, I do think, you know, some of the actual veterans got a little annoyed by Senator Mark Wayne Mullen doing a little bit of, like, stolen valor, pretending like he was, you know, really in the fight overseas when he was not.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Can you smell war from afar? I guess it's a philosophical question.

[Wyatt Snack]

Sure.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Wyatt Snack]

No, that's true. Yeah. I'm gonna say no. That's gonna be my. That's gonna be. My guess is no.

[Pablo Torre]

Does war smell like what Corey Lewandowski's alleged halitosis smells like? In which case, you know, it knows no borders, perhaps.

[Tim Miller]

And I can't say, because I have not been in war, I can't compare and contrast, you know, the smell of napalm in the morning to the smell of Corey Lewandowski's breath. And importantly, neither can Mark Wayne Mullen. And he kind of pretends to.

[Wyatt Snack]

Yeah, everybody wants to be a soldier, but nobody actually wants to go on the front lines.

[Pablo Torre]

And we. As much as this is hilarious in a key, undeniable way, it's also terrifying that this is who's in charge.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, it's a good point. And the playing pretend kind of does matter in this case because, like, in a very real way, a lot of the people that our government is sending into the streets right now to do immigration enforcement are playing pretend. Yes, we have, you know, former Superman Dean Cain signed up to join ice. Like, that's the type of. It's the quality of person that we're.

[Pablo Torre]

Former Princeton football star Dean Cain. How dare you minimize his sports career.

[Tim Miller]

And then you have people who've done real work that I don't want to denigrate, like on the border, at Border Patrol. That's a dangerous job. It's a hard job. You're dealing with cartels. But we've been moving people from the border and redeploying them from the border into the interior of the country, into American cities to hassle people. And now that force is going to be at the command, basically, of the Secretary of Department of Homeland Security, Mark Wayne Mullen, who it seems to me like likes to play pretend violence. Yeah, so that's. That's a little alarming.

[Wyatt Snack]

Well, and add to that, for all of those posturers that are on the ground in ice, they're also wearing masks, which I think if you are someone who likes to posture, there is a freedom behind a mask, having performed enough and having performed in ways where you're in costumes and things like that. But the thing that I feel like a lot of performers know and a lot of actors will talk about is when you are in costume, you can get caught up in the costume, and it frees you from things that maybe your better angels would have prevented you from doing.

[Pablo Torre]

And so the reason I want to do this topic in general is because, look, we're looking at Iran, and we should. We're looking at new theaters of war overseas. But before we leave our country. And what's been happening in the rear view, Tim, to sum it all up, what's changing? What has changed in the turnover of the Department of Homeland Security? Given that here are the characters that we've evolved from,

[Tim Miller]

very little is changing. I think that hopefully some of the performative sadism might be being Put on the back burner for a little while. We'll see how that goes. But I do think it's meaningfully different. Greg Bevino, we even talked about who is the short fellow that was the point person in Minnesota

[Pablo Torre]

dangling around his neck.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, he was executing a lot of what Kristi Noman, Corey Lewandowski wanted, which was like really inciting, trying to incite violence and pushback in the community. And they replaced him with Tom Homan, who is not great, but, you know, he's more of kind of just a kind of traditional, hardline, anti immigrant operator. Right. So I do think, like, some of the performative elements of this might go away. We'll see some of the performative elements of Kristi Noem's. You know, again, like we were saying earlier, like the snuff pictures in front of shirtless immigrants, I think that will probably change. The new secretary's facial muscles can move, so that'll be new. But I think that the actual immigration policy will be pretty close to the same, and that's pretty discouraging. And I think that Mark Wayne Mullen will have the same disincentives that Kristi Noem did, which is Stephen Miller and other people in the administration want a lot of deportations to be happening. And so, you know, he's going to want to make sure that his ground troops are getting the numbers or doing the deportation. So I think it will maybe be a little bit less inciting, a little bit less kind of dark camp or whatever you call Kristi Gnome evil camp. But policy wise, a lot of the same.

[Wyatt Snack]

There is one other possibility to throw out, which is Mark Wayne Mullen is Cherokee Nation. It could be possible that now, as head of Department of Homeland Security, he then goes full Cherokee Nation and says, okay, yeah, I'm kicking everybody else who's out who's not Native American. And he just goes. He just starts rounding up white guys and it's just like, nope, nope, this is stolen land. You're on stolen land. Get the out.

[Tim Miller]

And all of a sudden, land acknowledgments are happening at the DHS press conferences. Yeah, I don't think that's likely, but probably not. It'll be interesting to monitor, Wyatt. I think it'd be an interesting plot twist for sure.

[Wyatt Snack]

Look, my Stephen A. Smith prediction was right. This one I might not be. I might not be on target with.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, we have an MMA event to look forward to at the White House. But truly, the fact that the President's birthday party is also a UFC event That Dana White is now, this past week, announcing.

[Tim Miller]

It's just.

[Pablo Torre]

Tim, are you even ready for what that is, for what that's going to be?

[Tim Miller]

You know, I was thinking about this. I was planning what my what weeks. I'm going to be off the podcast this summer because I take a little vacation and I'm like, maybe I should do it around the 4th of July so I just don't have to think about this. Like, maybe, maybe that should be the week I should go dark. Because it's just such. It's so ridiculous. I mean, like, really, we're going to have an MMA fight on the lawn to celebrate our 250 and it is idiocracy. You know, Mike Judge did have a crystal ball, so I don't know. But it's real. It's worth moderating, paying attention to because, like, the MMA culture is very wrapped up in this administration, right? And like that whole mindset is. And you know, Dana White spoke at the convention. All those guys go to MMA fights. I'm like watching Cash Patel and Marco and Trump and all these guys sit ringside in their, in their suits. I think that they think it's gives them an aura of toughness, right? Like they really care a lot about this, like this machismo, this seeming strong. And I think that's kind of the political side of it.

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[Pablo Torre]

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[Adam Grant]

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What do I do?

[Pablo Torre]

My refund though. I'm freaking out. Don't worry, I can fix this.

[Adam Grant]

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[Tim Miller]

I'm so relieved.

[Pablo Torre]

No problem. I'll be with you every step of the way. One in four was a fraud paying American.

[Adam Grant]

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[Pablo Torre]

At the end of every episode of Pablo, Tori finds out. Tim Miller and Wyatt Snack we go around the table and we say what we found out today. Tim, is there anything that you found out on today's episode?

[Tim Miller]

I learned a lot about Huggy Bear and I learned about the kind of semi pro Oklahoma MMA culture that Mark Wayne Mullen came out of that's aired on Triller, the Bulgarian based American television streaming outlet. And I would like to learn a little bit more. I may understand my country a little bit better. I've learned a little bit. But I think maybe I'd understand my country a little bit better if I learned even more about what was happening on Triller.

[Wyatt Snack]

I think the thing I found out is perhaps the person who's best qualified to do anything about border security might have been the bouncer in that Senate hearing, Bernie Sanders. The idea that Bernie Sanders is able to secure the border of a Senate hearing, maybe he's the person instead of Mark Wayne Mullen who should be at the top of that candidate list for that job.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, it is.

[Tim Miller]

It's just.

[Wyatt Snack]

Or he should just be. Yeah, we should just have Bernie Sanders bouncing at nightclubs or any anywhere where we just need some crowd control. Just have Bernie come in there and just kind of in his old man way just throw his hands and be like, ah, stop it. Stop it. You. You're a senator.

[Tim Miller]

Just, just the voice what would your mother think about this?

[Wyatt Snack]

Yeah, let him be a referee at hockey fights.

[Tim Miller]

Stop it. Stop it.

[Wyatt Snack]

You're L. A. Senator. That's your team name. And you're a Jet. Stop it, both of you. He can wear those big mittens that he likes. Stop it. Both of you. Stop it.

[Pablo Torre]

What I found out today in the ongoing research I've been doing since Tim dropped a journalistic bomb on me is that Frank Ocean did, in fact, apparently eight months ago, post an Instagram story update of rumored boyfriend Peyton Talbot, in a position in which, again, I'm not here to make subjective assessments, but why? What would you describe Hayden Talbot doing to Felipe Lima in this screenshot that Frank Ocean put on Instagram with a heart emoji next to the crying emoji?

[Wyatt Snack]

Oh, he's eating that ass.

[Pablo Torre]

That is. That is just objective ass eating.

[Tim Miller]

Can you send me that picture? Yes, I missed that one. That must have been. I must have been before I started following Peyton.

[Pablo Torre]

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.

[Adam Grant]

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[Tim Miller]

Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Wyatt Snack]

Michael Gargiulo stalked and slaughtered his female

[Tim Miller]

neighbors in LA in the 2000s until one survived. She painted a picture that you could never imagine.

[Wyatt Snack]

In a first on Mind of a

[Tim Miller]

Monster, we dive into a case that's still active. Did Michael's murderous rampage start in the

[Pablo Torre]

1990s when he was just 17?

[Sponsor Voice (Bumble)]

His impulsivity and his rage was starting

[Congressional Questioner]

to peak around that age.

[Tim Miller]

Listen to Mind of a Monster, the Hollywood Ripper. Wherever you get your podcasts, ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast. Com.