Share & Oddjob & Tell with Domonique Foxworth and Charlie Kravitz

Summary

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Pablo Torre Finds Out – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Share & Oddjob & Tell with Domonique Foxworth and Charlie Kravitz
Date: January 16, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Guests: Domonique Foxworth, Charlie Kravitz

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Episode Overview

This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out delves into the changing nature of fun, authenticity, and relationships—across sports, media, and personal life. Pablo, Domonique, and Charlie riff on Jerry Jones’s shockingly strong TV cameo, the existential crisis of modern video games, and the surprisingly emotional science of group texts. It’s an episode about what connects us, why “realness” resonates, and how even the most powerful people can surprise or disappoint—on screen and over text.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. College Nostalgia and Evolving Social Scenes

Timestamps: 00:31–04:24

• Charlie Kravitz reminisces about college life at Vanderbilt, describing a weekly schedule centered on social gatherings, football, and parties—a “class schedule” of fun.

  • “Vanderbilt student, Hawaiian shirt, three buttons unbuttoned. Sunday: Sam's, sports bar. Monday... I can't remember the name of this bar. Tuesday... Newsday, a weekend party. Wednesday was trivia. Thursday was downtown Nashville. Friday was a fraternity party.” (Charlie, 01:08)

• The group jokes about Charlie being called “the face of the Vanderbilt social scene,” prompting playful self-deprecation.

• Domonique’s son Declan gets star treatment on an NFL sideline, leading to a reflection on what feels special as a kid versus as an adult. Domonique says this Ravens experience knocked the “cool” out of his usually reserved son:

  • “He’s grinning like a fool. He took a picture with John Harbaugh… he got to high five Derrick Henry, he kept doing more things that I told him not to do.” (Domonique, 03:44).

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2. Jerry Jones: Method Actor?

Timestamps: 04:24–14:34

• Viral Moment: The panel examines Jerry Jones’s viral cameo in the Paramount+ show “Landman,” a scene lauded for its dramatic heft.

  • Cinematographer Robert McLachlan recounts skepticism about using a non-actor for a pivotal monologue (“…when I saw the script…that’s a lot of words for a non-actor…” – [06:24])
  • After watching Jones’s emotional monologue, Pablo says: “I mean, he crushed that.” ([08:16])
  • Domonique observes, “That man can lie. That man been lying for so long. You know, a good liar convinces themselves they are telling the truth. It's the same thing about an actor. Jerry been lying his whole life…” ([08:24])

• Panelists compare Jones’s performance to awkward celebrity cameos, including Bob Kraft’s infamous leaked audition tape: “I just hated it. Every second of it. Beginning to end, start to finish.” (Domonique, 16:25)

• Jones’s charisma and political skills—as both football magnate and, apparently, actor—are discussed as a form of “celebrity magic.”

  • “He's kindly, generous… a celebrity worth so much money… people obviously fall for it.” (Domonique, 14:34)
  • The limits of charm—how wealth blurs the social lines—are poked at:
    • Pablo: “When it comes to…how much of charm is just being rich and famous and powerful?”
    • Charlie: “It’s a lot easier.”
    • Domonique: “Everything’s easier when you’re rich.” ([15:06–15:10])

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3. Video Games: The (Graphic) Plateau and Return to Fun

Timestamps: 18:32–31:02

• The NYT article, “Video Games Can't Afford to Look This Good”, reveals a surprising trend: ultra-realistic graphics have led to diminishing returns in fun.

  • Charlie: “For the first time, the video game industry is shrinking because of that.” ([18:32])
  • Pablo: “Do I really need the PS5 Pro to get some marginal advantage in Spider Man 2 graphics? The answer for me was no.” ([21:06])
  • Key Insight: Kids are turning to Roblox and Minecraft, which emphasize community and creativity over graphics.

• Domonique’s Disruption Theory:

  • “It happens in every industry. It’s classic, like, disruption theory…everyone in the industry gets to a point where the diminishing returns from that paradigm…” ([21:44])
  • Analogy to basketball’s 3-point revolution and the evolution of phones.

• Nostalgia for Simpler Games:

  • Pablo: “I have such stupid nostalgia for just GoldenEye.” ([30:02])
  • “When Madden got more complex… oh, this ain’t fun no more. This feels like work.” (Domonique, 28:51)

• Notable Quote, on community and innovation:

  • “The thing that people want out of this experience…is not what video game studios ended up spending a bulk of their cash on.” (Pablo, 21:31)

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4. Sports Media, Jargon, and “The Hollow Experience”

Timestamps: 23:39–29:44

• Complicated Stats vs. Authentic Discussion:
  • The panel compares sports media’s obsession with insider jargon (EPA, DVOA, etc.) to the video game graphics arms race.
  • “A real expert can explain something and make it seem simple, not explain it and make it seem more complicated.” (Charlie, 24:58)
  • Domonique: “We have to…your point about the pendulum is…you swing all the way over and then eventually come back to equilibrium.” (26:38)
  • Charlie: “We shouldn’t be bo people out of sports or discussions simply because certain people have access to tape or stats that other people don’t.” (28:03)

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5. Texting as a Social Struggle—The Agony of Modern Connection

Timestamps: 31:02–42:43

• The Atlantic article, “The Agony of Texting with Men”:

  • Domonique reluctantly summarizes a piece about how modern male friendships are “hollow experiences” due to poor texting skills and the loss of physical third spaces.

  • Pablo singles out Dominique as “the single worst texter in sports media,” which launches group self-analysis and rankings ([32:15–35:44])

  • Dan Le Batard and Katie Nolan are named even worse—Dan for overly long, existential texts; Katie for a “two phones” strategy.

  • Men’s Group Chats:

    • Domonique details his favorite group chat: “Four guys…we all have the proper ratio… if somebody falls off… it’s cool. If it gets super engaged, it’s cool. If we don’t talk for a couple days, it’s cool… sometimes a guy’s like, ‘Hey, dealing with this.’” (36:27)
    • Anecdote about a man leaving a chat after his mom’s death goes unacknowledged sparks discussion of emotional vulnerability—whether a group chat is the appropriate venue.

• Group Chat Ethics and Vulnerability:

  • Questions about what belongs in a chat (“Maybe we should rethink what we put in the chat”) and the slippery boundary between content and privacy.
  • Pablo admits, “My first thought is, how is my friend doing? My second thought is, how can I make a show out of this?” (40:29)

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6. Best/Worst Group Chatters – Power Rankings

Timestamps: 34:23–42:43

• Final Power Rankings:

  • #1 Worst: Dan Le Batard (“Dan either doesn’t respond or sends way too long a text.” – Charlie, 34:50)
  • #2 Worst: Katie Nolan (“She, like a professional athlete, had two phones…” – Pablo, 34:41)
  • Dominique is most improved (“The Bryce Young of texting” – Charlie, 32:33)
  • “I’ll leave a group chat, like out of here.” – Domonique, 36:10

• Rules for Good Group Chats:

  • Respect for time and temperature of the chat.
  • Vulnerability and seriousness best for direct (side) chats, not main group threads.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “That man can lie. That man been lying for so long. You know, a good liar convinces themselves that they are telling the truth… Jerry been lying his whole life.” — Domonique Foxworth on Jerry Jones, [08:24]
• “Everything’s easier when you’re rich.” — Domonique Foxworth, [15:10]
• “A real expert can explain something and make it seem simple, not explain it and make it seem more complicated.” — Charlie Kravitz, [24:58]
• “We spent some time, those people still exist, there are some people who love to live in spreadsheets and clip film... what’s happening is a lot of those people are insecure, and using jargon to express to people they are on the inside.” — Domonique, [27:47]
• “When Madden got more complex… oh, this ain’t fun no more. This feels like work.” — Domonique, [28:51]
• “Odd Job was banned from any games that we played.” — Domonique, [30:27]
• “I’ll leave a group chat, like, out of here.” — Domonique, [36:10]
• “My first thought is, how is my friend doing? My second thought is, how can I make a show out of this?” — Pablo Torre, [40:29]

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Episode Theme Wrap-Up & Takeaways

Timestamps: 43:10–

The theme is authenticity and community. Each panelist shares what they “found out”:

• Charlie: “There was a theme for this show… being genuine and having community. And I found out that you guys are my community. And I really like that. It was great to be back here with us.” ([43:27])
• Domonique: “I found out Pablo’s dirty—wash your sweater.” ([43:51])
• Pablo: “The most offensive thing anyone has ever done on my show is actively simulate snoring…” ([44:01])

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Episode Flow

The episode weaves humor, vulnerability, and sharp insight—shifting smoothly from pop culture observations and industry meta-commentary, to the “micro” issues of friendship, texting, and the value of fun both in life and on a screen.

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Useful For:

• Fans seeking sharp, funny sports/culture analysis
• Listeners interested in modern media trends
• Anyone who’s ever argued about which group chat to leave, or why their favorite video game “isn’t fun anymore”

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Note:
Ads, intros, and outros not included; this summary covers only core discussion content.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[B]

Levatar and Katie Nolan, no question did the sports media power ranking of the worst texters right after this ad.

[A]

You're listening to DraftKings.

[B]

The concept of going abroad in college was like. I was like, I can't miss a semester that's going to be the most fun semester of all time.

[A]

That is so real, though. I never visited, like, Boston. We stayed in Harvard Square the entire time. We did very little adventuring to, like, adult world.

[B]

Yeah. Do I regret not going all across Europe because I applied to an abroad program and got into it and didn't do it a little bit. Probably be more traveled, but don't regret being there. Ruled.

[C]

I love when Charlie turns into a bro.

[B]

Hammering natty lights and having, like, all of Nashville.

[A]

What did you. What did you give me the. Just the physical scouting report on Charlie Kravitz.

[B]

Vanderbilt student, Hawaiian shirt, three buttons unbuttoned. Sunday, Sam, sports bar. Watch football and drink. Monday. Monday we went to. I can't remember the name of this bar. Tuesday we had this thing called Newsday, which is like a weekend party where you go on. Wednesday was trivia at Sam's. Thursday was out downtown Nashville. Friday was like fraternity party. Saturday was.

[A]

Remarkable how precisely he's recalling.

[C]

All of this I made. It sounds like it was like a class schedule for him.

[A]

I want you to bring back the Hawaiian shirt.

[B]

I was. Yeah, definitely. I really should. I. Minimum. Minimum. A girl once called me the face of the Vanderbilt social scene.

[C]

Not the body of the Vanderbilt.

[A]

Not the brain.

[B]

Not the brain.

[C]

Just the face. Oh, God.

[B]

See your stupid fat face everywhere. Red, red, reeking of stale beer.

[A]

Ruddy, ruddy faced drunk.

[C]

Oh, gosh.

[B]

Face. Can I show you the photo there?

[A]

This is good. I want to introduce. There was Charlie, in case they don't know of his previous work.

[B]

There was religious protesters that came to, like, protest party at Vanderbilt.

[C]

Protest partying.

[A]

Like. Like a footloose situation, more or less.

[B]

They would be like. They're like, this is a life of sin. And they had, like, gigantic signs. And of course, we just, like, went up in front of them and shotgunned in their face and, like, threw the beer cans down and we're like, eat it, weirdos.

[C]

That's such a bro.

[A]

By the way, when I saw Dominique on the field at this playoff game in Baltimore.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Ashley posted some.

[A]

Yeah, what?

[B]

Some.

[A]

It was you and Declan on the field together. I mean, this is. This Was awesome.

[B]

It was sick. Declan dapping up Derrick Henry taking pictures with 2 chain.

[C]

Yeah, it was pretty cool. He met a bunch of players. Yeah, it was cool for him.

[A]

I forgot when we compliment Dominique, he.

[C]

No, it's not about being compliment. What do you want me to say? It was cool. Yeah. If I was an 11 year old boy, like, I've taken him on the field before. And Debo Samuel came over and introduced himself to him on a Commander's game that he went to. He played at halftime of the last Commander's game against the Falcons. He's been on the field a bunch of times. He's been on the field for college football games. It's pretty cool. But this was the coolest because he's. It's funny because he like, he likes to be on the field and he's also at an age where he tries to be cool. But this was. And all the other times he was like on the field, but it's kind of cool. Oh, yeah, that's neat, right, Debo? Oh, neat. I'll take a picture with him. But this time, because he is a Ravens fan, he like lost all his cool. He got knocked right out of him. He's grinning like a fool. He took a picture with John Harbaugh, who was incredibly nice and came over, took a picture. He got the high five. Derrick Henry, he kept doing more and more things that I told him not to do.

[A]

I get why Declan doesn't listen to you.

[B]

He does.

[C]

No, he doesn't.

[A]

I wanted to start with this Jerry Jones thing. Are you. Are you a watcher, Dominique of Landman?

[C]

I'm not a watcher of Landman.

[A]

Is the way I say Landman? Charlie persuading you that maybe I am familiar with the show?

[B]

Definitely not, but I'm familiar with the show. I watched all of Landman except for the finale. I haven't watched the finale yet.

[A]

So Cortez loves Landman.

[C]

He does.

[B]

Jon Hamm.

[C]

I don't know. I was just trying to spoil the finale for you. Who's Landman? What's his superpower?

[B]

Landman is someone who buys mineral rights to plots of land in Texas and then sells and then drills on them to find oil.

[A]

The reason, though, I am talking about Landman, is because his Paramount plus show, which is a Taylor Sheridan show, which is to say it's in his cinematic universe. Which is to say that, yeah, it's very popular among a sector of America that is quite populous, it turns out.

[C]

Oh, that's the Yellowstone guy.

[A]

That's the Yellowstone guy.

[C]

I haven't watched that either.

[B]

This is his most maximalist show. It's filmed in Texas. It has some of the vibes of like a successor to Friday Night Lights with. Without some of the depth. It has Billy Bob Thorton, John Hamm, Demi Moore, and it's completely over the top and like a very fun watch that has shockingly good acting, despite the fact that it's like filling the old soap network soap things that we used to show while also sort of glorifying fossil fuels. So it's like. It's a give and a take.

[C]

You hosted the. Out of his show. Good job.

[A]

He's our White America correspondent. And what Landman went viral for recently is this scene with Jerry Jones. And this has been everywhere. But I wanted to actually get behind the scenes of this scene, which we will show you in a little bit here. And so what we did was we called up the cinematographer of landman, Robert McLaughlin, who is a veteran of shows such as Game of Thrones, Ray Donovan, Westworld, Ryan Cortez, by the way, texted me just now, quote, it's Friday Night Lights mixed with Sicario Landman.

[B]

So that's a. That's a great call.

[A]

And if the cinematography by Robert McLaughlin is anything like that, a compliment to Robert McLaughlin, who sounds like this.

[D]

You know, when we were handed the script. Oh, that's cool. You know, Jerry Jones character comes in and delivers this huge long monologue. And, you know, I came to work and I said, so who have they got to play Jerry Jones? You know, I've done this a long time and. And, you know, usually bringing in a non actor to do something long like that is like you're really treading on thin ice. But the day of his scene came. We were shooting in a. In a. In an unused wing of a new hospital in Fort Worth. And. And we heard a helicopter and somebody said, that must be Jerry arriving. He'd flown from wherever, Dallas or someplace and arrived with his. His. With a, you know, a small entourage. And they had a room set up for him to sit. We weren't quite ready to shoot with him yet. And, you know, the script supervisor, who's been doing this a long time too, kind of looked at. She looked at me and kind of rolled her eyes like, boy, you know, that's a lot of words for a non actor to do.

[A]

And so Jerry Jones enters this hospital room in which Jon Hamm give the visuals here is unwell and in a hospital bed.

[B]

He's had his fourth heart attack.

[A]

And Billy Bob Thornton is There. Oscar winner and Emmy winner, respectively, in reverse order. And Jerry Jones proceeds, in case you haven't seen it, this non actor to do this.

[E]

I just know it's not gonna be this time. But you're gonna be sitting here sometime in the future, laying here sometime in the future. And this realm's going to be full of your business associates and the people you've worked with all your life. And more than likely, your children and family are going to be there because they're your children and your family. But you could have them there because they're the people you spent your life with, you worked with, you fell down with, you got up with.

[A]

I mean, he crushed that.

[B]

It's incredible.

[C]

Chewed that up.

[A]

His eyes, the sniffling, his eyes getting watery.

[C]

That man can lie. That man been lying for so long. You know, a good liar. A good liar convinces themselves that they are telling the truth. See, it's the same thing about an actor. Jerry been lying his whole life. That man believed it. In that moment, Jerry was, what's the landman?

[A]

He's a method landman.

[C]

Oh, he been doing like this all his whole life. You called him up, he was like, hey, you want to act? And he was like, you mean lie? Oh, give me a microphone and a.

[A]

Camera in the hallways. By the way, the cinematographer, the people who doubted him working on the show, on the set were all blown away. This was a script. There were several takes because they got to get coverage. And it's just standard Hollywood stuff. Dominique, big Hollywood big shot, knows this, of course. But the point is, what the cinematographer also said to us was. But he pretty much nailed every single take. He was just crushing it the whole day. Wow.

[B]

I wonder how many times he's given that speech.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

In his life.

[A]

So what we did also was we asked for Jerry Jones himself. We asked for the King to visit us. The Cowboys head of PR responded this way. Quote, appreciate the interest. Jerry was fantastic in the landman scene for sure. He's also in the midst of sorting out our head coach situation. So we'll need to pass on this. And then, Shortly thereafter, Mike McCarthy was consciously uncoupled from the Dallas Cowboys. Dominique, you negotiate.

[C]

You could do it.

[A]

Cry on command.

[C]

No, I mean, just like, deliver a monologue in a way that was believable.

[A]

I don't think I would be anywhere near as good as him.

[B]

I wouldn't be close.

[A]

Dominique is batting his eyes. Dominique thinks he can do that.

[C]

I mean, I think I can do everything.

[B]

This is the irrational confidence of Dominique saying he'd also do stand up comedy.

[A]

Is that. Is that. Is that a thing that we can test?

[B]

That's a take.

[A]

He think that's an episode of the show.

[B]

And Wyatt agreed.

[C]

No, because Charlie.

[A]

Dominique gets encouraged.

[C]

No, Charlie has cooked it up into, like, I think I can be a stand up comedian. The point I made was we were talking about open mics. I could do five minutes and get a couple chuckles. Like, open mics are not. Like, I'm not a stand up comedian. Like, I don't think I could be Dave Chappelle or Chris Rock or anybody.

[A]

So you're saying you wouldn't be the greatest stand up of all time?

[C]

I'm saying, short of that, I'm saying anything's possible. I'm saying that I could show up at an open mic and, like, I'm not saying that I'm gonna BE Roy Wood Jr. I'm saying I show up at open mic and cook. That's it. That's it. However, if I committed myself to it.

[A]

People just should know this, that Dominique does believe that his superpower as Fox man. This is a better superhero name for you. That was bad. But there is a belief that Dominique has that if he were to try hard at anything, he can accomplish it, supported by evidence.

[C]

I've done it. I've done all of it that I wanted to do.

[B]

So there's. I look at this two ways. He's shockingly good in front of a live crowd. Like, we did our live show last year. We're doing another one tomorrow night. By the time you're listening to this, we have already done our live podcast.

[A]

Dominique will have gotten a Netflix special. Strength of that.

[B]

But counterpoint. Not funny. Tougher for a live. For an open mic.

[C]

Wow, that's nonsense.

[A]

Blunt. A blunt scouting report.

[C]

He thinks I'm not funny.

[B]

It's not. Not that funny.

[A]

Okay, so I want to bring this back to the Jerry Jones briefly for a second here because he was so good that lots of people who worked on the show started wondering, like, who's better than this? And it's a hard question to divide an answer to. They even wondered if Jerry Jones had hired an act at one point. But it brings us back to this general idea of, like, these people have seen a lot of cameos on prestige television, and apparently, quote, there is no comparison to Jerry Jones from the cinematographer in question.

[D]

I didn't do the Game of Thrones episode with Ed Sheeran, but, you know, we did have, you know, and when I shot the Red Wedding episode, we had the drummer From Coldplay there. We had some other, you know, various celebrities who, who, who would fly themselves to Belfast just to show up and, and have a piece. Sometimes they had a, had a line, sometimes they didn't. You know, I was doing a huge battle scene in Spain and we had Noah Sondergaard from the Mets showed up. He was a huge fan and they gave him, put him in a full set of armor and, and gave him a big close up throwing a spear. And, and that actually took three or four takes because on action he kind of freezes. He froze up and, and didn't throw the spear. So. And boy, you got to watch that episode really carefully to catch that, that two second close up of Thor throwing a spear.

[A]

So Jerry Jones, naturally charismatic in front of the camera. Noah Cindergaard, former Mets, would be star pitcher, looked like this. And if you just get the freeze frame of just Noah's in the guard. Yep, there it is.

[C]

You would think throwing would be something he'd be, he wouldn't get nervous about is I just throw.

[A]

His name is Thor. Couldn't throw.

[C]

It's a pitcher you should be able to throw.

[A]

You've negotiated against Jerry Jones. You've covered him. You were just on TV gas bagging about him. I'm so thankful that he's around. He's a font of content. Yeah, the guy does radio shows. He's a billionaire. He then argues with the radio hosts, giving us content on top of content. He just essentially de Facto fired Mike McCarthy because Mike McCarthy wanted to coach his team for longer than he wanted him to. And now he's feeding us in Hollywood. It's just a remarkable thing. Do you have a sense of humor about him or does he seem, is he getting away with stuff? Because he is also the guy who is charming everybody in all of these rooms, me included.

[C]

It turns out from afar he's incredibly charming. Is he getting away with stuff?

[A]

I mean, what, what makes him charming? As you've experienced him up close, he's a politician.

[C]

Like, it's, it's just that he's got that politician charm and that he remembers your name and he's affable and he's like, like he is what you see everyone. Like, he seems like fun to be around. He's kind and, and like generous with like his attention and conversation. And so then because he is a celebrity and he's worth so much money, like, I think it's having that along with it. It's like people obviously fall for it.

[A]

When it comes to though the power of wealth and how much of charm is just being rich and famous and powerful?

[B]

It's a lot. It's a lot easier.

[A]

I present to you.

[C]

Everything's easier when you're rich.

[A]

A counterpoint, because the other NFL owner, of course, who has made, I think, a very memorable acting cameo, actually did this on tape was an audition submission for his girlfriend. Now, about 15 years ago, there. About 2012. Ish. And I'd like you to just witness the theatrical charisma of Bob Kraft and his actress, model, girlfriend at the time, Ricky Noel Lander.

[D]

Hi, I'm Ricky Lander, and I'm auditioning for Mary Elena.

[A]

Okay. Yes.

[D]

That is burned in my memory.

[B]

You can stop now. You.

[C]

Lyle.

[A]

Oh, God. So that was an audition tape submitted and then leaked and then shared on the Internet for the internship, the Vince Vaughn, Owen Wilson movie. Bob Kraft was doing Owen Wilson's lines. Bob Kraft was on camera, though, which isn't typical about a submission. An on tape audition. Dominique. What? What?

[C]

I just hated it. Every second of it. Beginning to end, start to finish.

[B]

You didn't like the end of it when he punched the guy?

[A]

He called him a P word.

[C]

Yes. Oh, we can't say that.

[A]

Okay. I believe that we have the technology to do this, so bear with me. I believe we can actually show you this video because there's a green screen where we make this into the Landman hospital scene. This is Bob Kraft auditioning for the role that Jerry Jones submitted for.

[C]

Hi.

[B]

You were really good up there. I didn't mean that in a sexual.

[C]

Way, but not that it wasn't erotic.

[D]

Well, now we're even, because dancing in.

[C]

Front of you was one of the most embarrassing moments in my life.

[A]

Bob Kraft said, quote, I never intended that it would be made public, and I regret that it has. End quote.

[B]

I think Bob Craft has some regrets of things that have gone public, for sure. We broke Dominique. This topic broke Dominique.

[C]

I had nothing. I'm not broken. I have nothing to add. I don't. It was a bad audition. It was. It was uncomfortable. She was weirdly sexualized, and Bob Kraft was a poor actor. It just, like, made no sense. It's just. That's a question.

[B]

Do you think she wanted him in the screen, or do you think he wanted. Was like.

[A]

I do think that this was clearly something where she was like, would it help you if you knew that I was potentially romantically entangled with one of the richest men in America who happens to own the dynasty of our time? And it turned out the answer was no, because she did not get the part, nor did he.

[B]

That's a tough scene for them.

[A]

It's a real tough, tough scene in every possible way, actually. Charlie, let's bring it back to the world of actual journalism.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What did you bring us?

[B]

Okay, I brought you guys a story from the New York Times that came out on December 26 by Zachary Small called Video Games Can't Afford to Look this Good. The basics of the story were that throughout all of our lives there was a boom in technology. Video games became more and more hyper real. And it used to drive sales and interest that games looked way better and more realistic. I'm sure you had this moment, like for me, I remember seeing the first map in N64 with Mario. Oh my God. This doesn't look like a Game Boy. Well, it turns out there are diminishing marginal returns as these maps have gotten more and more extreme. The graphics gotten more and more hyper real. The games have become less fun to a lot of people and replaced by something that seems too much like real life. And for the first time, the video game industry is shrinking because of that.

[A]

Spider Man 2 has been like a case study in this story because Spider man, the video game you can see over time it becomes really again, like you're inside of a movie. Its whole thing is hyper realism. And then you sort of also begin to notice, and this is another just like funny thing that I think any video game player has to make peace with is that at a certain point, the money you're dropping for the new game doesn't get you the proportional increase in terms of like, wow, this is so much different than it was before. There's a plateau, there is a diminishing returns just on the technology level. And what I didn't know until Charlie was like, I want to do this story, is that the entire industry has gone so far in the direction of trying to Hollywood ify everything.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Now they're realizing, wait a minute, the thing that the kids are actually playing and are and are obsessed with, their graphics are terrible.

[B]

Yeah, it's Roblox, it's Minecraft, It's Minecraft. And it's about community. It's about people want to have fun with their friends. And video games became something that can replace some social interactions and the map and the hyper realism and having to like play, like play NBA 2K and have it be way more realistic than it was in 2012 actually wasn't driving stuff. I thought this was really interesting for a number of reasons. One, it immediately connected to I'm Sure. What you felt. Dominique might have been at the. Where this was age appropriate, but despite the fact that there was Xbox and PS3 or whatever, whenever we were in college, there was. There was an N64 in any. Every dorm because people wanted to play games together. And it wasn't about, like, having the best graphics or the best stuff. It was about, like, a. A sense of community and normalcy. And the games are supposed to be fun. I found it to be a really interesting thing that they're now realizing that. That there's no reason to make Spider man look like Spider Man.

[A]

I didn't realize it until I read the story. Like, I knew. I felt it intuitively. I was like, do I really need the PS5 Pro to get some marginal advantage in The Spider Man 2 graphics? The answer for me was no. But now I'm just realizing, oh, like the. What people actually want out of this experience, Dominique is just not what video game studios and their studios now ended up spending a bulk of their cash on.

[C]

I mean, I guess I should. I shouldn't pretend like this is something obvious and something I knew, but, like, it feels like it's something once you see seems incredibly obvious because.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, because it happens in every industry. It's like, bingo.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, it's classic, like, disruption theory. Like, it's. The. The definition of it is that you get to a certain point to where you. You think that this is the paradigm on which this industry is competing on, and then everyone in the industry gets to a point where the diminishing returns from that paradigm and you have to SW industry or the company or the game or the. The whatever. The product that takes over is one that recognizes that that's not how we're going to compete. And now they're competing in a different way. It's the. Similar to, like, when three Pointers took over the NBA where it's like, all right, we compete with centers, centers, centers, centers. And then we got to the point where actually, because the three is the. The place that we're going to compete, your inability to move becomes a problem. And then the game evolves in a different way. And the same thing for every other industry where there's the same thing with phones. Like, at first we're like, all right, I want to be able to call. And then we watch how the phones went from a big suitcase to a phone that had color and the phone that you could type on, a phone you could text on. Then we get to a point where it's like, all right, this does enough.

[A]

Everything feels just like a pendulum swinging back and forth in general. But now what we're seeing in this economy of video games is that studios are like closing down. Layoffs are happening for the first time. Layoffs apparently have affected more than 20,000 employees in the past two years, more than 2,500 Microsoft workers. And the point being that what you actually want out of this product the entire time was it reminds me of just like. And it's funny to say this in the same, like, month that we finally got new cameras in this studio, but like, look at Internet video, look at what goes viral. Like, people actually have such a tolerance for sports, for the worst production values. And we have been trying to spend to attract something that's not actually why people are here.

[B]

I'm glad you brought this up because this is the exact connection point I thought about. There's a line in the article that basically talks about theories of why people have stopped wanting the hyper realism and that it's an investment in graphics that creates a hollow experience. You don't feel anything, you don't connect with people on it. That to me, you just brought up something that's happening in video, YouTube videos. People crave authenticity. They crave real conversations. It's like you look at the best podcasts, you look at the best shows, the things that have lasted forever, Whether it's a PTI or Dan LeBatard show, the communities they create, pardon my take, whatever, all that stuff they create people who really want to engage with that stuff. I want to connect this back to something. The last time we were all together in Miami, Pablo went mini viral.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

Because he talked about, you know, the.

[C]

Tape, not a stolen take.

[B]

It was.

[C]

Authenticity. That's what I'm trying to make your show better, being authentic.

[B]

Mine and Pablo's take was that Pablo articulated better, which is that football media particularly, I mean, it's in all sports media, but football and basketball and football in particular, they want to watch the tape and they want to tell you about the epa and they fetishize jargon. And that pissed off a lot of ball knowers online and Twitter people are like, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. This is the most complex sport.

[A]

He's still trying to win Brett Coleman back.

[B]

But here's the thing is you were right, because a real expert can explain something and make it seem simple, not explain it and make it seem more complicated. And the reason that the word hollow experience, I thought was really interesting was there was this incredible shift in football media from the caveman jacked up, which is kind of dope. Not going to forget. Like, it was John Taylor hitting that punter was pretty awesome. It was to this really specific EPA per play dvoa. And if you disagree with it, they're like, you don't get the stats, you don't watch the tape. And instead of having this community around a show, that's something that's fun, that drives discussion, something that Dan does or PTI does, it gets people who are like, I, this is feels like talking about sports with a friend and the experiences move really far. And then you see how it's shifting back is people actually don't care about having this graphic with everything explained to them being like, there's no possible way I'm wrong about this. They want to talk about sports like normal people.

[A]

Does it feel social? Does it feel like the experience that you're here for?

[C]

To be clear, I think that Charlie is not saying that all the stats are bad.

[B]

No, they're good.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

No.

[C]

But I do think that he's making a point that I agree with to some degree. But I think I would be further on the this, the ball knower slash nerd spectrum, because I guess it's not a complete spectrum. It's more like a graph that you. Or a triangle chart. I don't know what that's called. Where you find different spots. No, it's not a Venn diagram. Because the Venn diagram is like the overlap. It's like there's like film watchers, there's like stat nerds, and then there's like.

[A]

You'Re describing a graphic that stat nerds would love currently.

[C]

So I am a stat.

[A]

A triangular heat map.

[C]

Yeah. And then there'. And I think where you find yourself on there could be any particular place. But I think where Charlie is right is this feel like work. This is like a spreadsheet. This feels like a job or a homework. People who don't know anything and they're just like spouting off about like, clutch gene and like that. It's like, all right, that feels stupid. So it lands somewhere in. In all of this. But I do think we have to. Your point about the pendulum is like we have a. It's just like a natural phenomenon where when something happens, everyone's like, oh, this is it. You swing all the way over to it and you swing all the way over to it and then eventually you come back to some equilibrium. And I think we did spend some time and those people still exist. There are some people who love to live in the spreadsheets and some people who want to clip film and put it on and break down. I think the only thing that you were really offended or not offended by, but you took umbrage umbrage with is the. The idea that people are using jargon that's exclusive that like blocks people out from understanding. And I think that what's happening is a lot of those people are insecure.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I think they're using the jargon to express to people that they are on the inside.

[B]

And it's also the certainty of it. To me, it's like when you, when you say something so definitively, it just, it takes away all the conversation all the way. Normal people wants to want to think about it.

[A]

It should be an invitation.

[B]

We shouldn't be bo people out of talking about sports or being interested in these discussions simply because there are certain people have access to tape or stats that other people don't. It's not a direct answer. They're supposed to support your opinions.

[A]

Right. Why would you need a supercomputer to run a video game?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are your kids into like Roblox and stuff?

[C]

Yeah, on and off sometimes, yeah, they like it.

[A]

But just like it's my, my niece who's 10. I'm just like. There's. There's a quote in this piece about one game and essentially like the JPEG that they used to advertise.

[B]

I love this detail.

[A]

Was a bigger file than the actual game. It's just like, this is not the point. Like, the point is amusement.

[C]

When graphics got better, it was awesome.

[A]

I remember this, but in.

[C]

When the. When Madden got more complex and it was awesome because I hated playing a football game that didn't feel like football. However, it got to the point where I stopped playing Madden in. In college because I was like, oh, this ain't fun no more. This feels like work. I got to read coverages out my face with that.

[A]

You know what the turning point for me with Madden was when I stopped playing it? The passing cone.

[B]

I was about to say it was division cone.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

The vision cone was the worst.

[A]

But that's exactly it. It's like, hey, did you guys want to simulate the feeling of being like a fighter pilot who needs to do tons of homework to figure out how to pass the ball in a football video game? No.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, has. Have video games ever gotten better than like Halo 2, Blood Gulch battle rifles with your friends when you're 14? Sword guy. Yeah.

[C]

Well.

[B]

And either way, Even more simple version of it.

[A]

Video game Murder Energy Source.

[B]

But like that stuff was awesome. I mean I. I still remember when you had Game Boys and you could get the cord and trade Pokemon from the red and the blue thing to complete. Complete your set. That was literally building in community to the easiest game that was the exact same except for the color of the cartridge and like a couple Pokemon you could get. And that stuff was awesome.

[A]

I have such stupid nostalgia for like just goldeneye.

[C]

What was your disappointing. I've got one of those emulators a couple years ago and I've tried to play goldeneye. It didn't hold up.

[A]

Doesn't hold up.

[C]

Maybe it was just a bad emulator, but it didn't hold up the first person.

[B]

How about the music?

[C]

Oh yeah, music.

[A]

Music is great. You're telling me that being Odd Job and hiding inside a bathroom stall every time.

[C]

Every time Odd Job was banned from any games that we played? Yep. Go ahead and say it.

[A]

Because you are just against Asian.

[C]

Of course not. Because it was cheating.

[B]

It was cheating.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Odd Job, Michael Vic and Madden obviously like you do.

[A]

My favorite players were in goldeneye and Madden. Odd Job and Michael Vic. Respect.

[C]

Yeah, this is.

[B]

Duh.

[A]

So there was actually a long discussion about what Dominique was going to bring to the table here and then participate in that discussion. And that's how the topic got decided.

[C]

So the article that was decided for me, which I read on the way to the studio today, is the Agony of Texting with Men, which is by Matthew Schnipper from the Atlantic. And it was actually a really good article. It talked about like, how everyone needs community and relationships and because of the way that the world is changing and we're all more text message focused than we are having a third place, a bar or wherever guys hung out in the past. That and men are particularly bad at texting. It's made it so they've had a difficult time developing and maintaining relationships. And I see why you guys sent me this.

[A]

Because you responded to zero of the texts on the group chat about planning for this segment.

[C]

Yeah, because it's a hollow experience. Okay. Texting with each other is a hollow experience, as the article lays out. So, like, I'm sorry that I want to have genuine interactions with my friends and I don't want to live through texts. Excuse me.

[A]

He responded to zero, right? Zero texts on this thread.

[C]

You're welcome.

[B]

To be fair, he was working the entire day.

[A]

Yeah, he again, he was between Stephen, Shannon, Sharp on first take. I understand that, but he responded to zero texts. I think that Dominique Foxworth is the single worst texter in sports media.

[B]

Disagree. I think he is the Bryce Young of texting. He is the most improved texter.

[A]

We.

[C]

We thank you.

[B]

He's sending. He's sending cratered his own expectations and gifts. He's responding to everything.

[C]

Boom.

[B]

He's starting conversations via text.

[C]

Three touchdowns. No sacks. No.

[B]

He was the worst, though. And he also used to be evidence. He used to, like, be the anxiety inducing text or two. Because he just respond, okay, that or.

[C]

Yes, I recognize that I didn't understand what was implied by some of the messages that I sent.

[A]

Yeah. Just okay. With nothing else around, which to me means okay.

[B]

Yeah. There have been a couple of times where I've called Dominique after an okay. He's like, yeah. No, it's saying, okay.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

That tracks. That's very literal.

[C]

Can I work on myself? Try to get better and understand these new. This new world that you kids are living in? I don't get it.

[A]

I find. I do find terrific.

[C]

And I talk on the phone a lot more than I do with anybody every day, which is great. We can chat like some real adults.

[A]

So Dominique does like a phone call. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's, in fact, praiseworthy that he wants to have a conversation.

[C]

I won't call you anymore because he's.

[B]

Great at the group chat.

[A]

I'm disappointed, Dominique.

[C]

Yeah, he is. He is incredible.

[B]

He's an elite group. Chatter doesn't overdo it.

[A]

Well, that's. So that's my thing in group chats, though, is that I am. I'm not gonna lead the team in field goal attempts, but I'm gonna have a pretty good percentage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

By the way, invariably, Mina is always leading the league in attempts. And, like, she's a good percentage too. I'm not saying that, but, like, that's where I'm like, oh, I'm the guy in the article. Like, I can't keep up. Yeah, I can. I. I told Mina recently, I was like, I think you are in Mina. The two most active group chats on my phone. And she looked at me like, really? Those are the two most active on your phone? As if, like, I am.

[B]

I. Yeah, she's definitely in my most active group chat, hands down. And she runs that group chat.

[A]

God. So who is worse than. Than Dominique? If you're saying that Dominique is not dead last. I want to build a power rankings here.

[B]

Levitar and Katie Nolan. No question. The sports media power ranking is the worst texters. Katie had the two phones thing, it was impossible, right?

[A]

She. She, like a professional athlete had two phones.

[C]

I mean, like a quarterback, you got two phones. You don't got one. And then I don't know what that means. And then it seemed right.

[B]

Dan either doesn't respond or sends a way too long text. Yeah. And she's. You read it and you're like, God, I suck at everything. Thanks, Dan.

[A]

Just like Dan, you should just be emailing people. And then you get an email from him and you're like, dan, don't do that. Not be emailing people. People.

[B]

You think when he sends an email, he's. It's like a. He's voice dictating it. Because of the lack of punctuation, it.

[A]

Kind of no way. It would be such a clarifying detail if, in fact he was just dictating it instead. I think that's just his brain. Yeah.

[C]

I like it. I like it. I like a no bull.

[A]

You like a giant unbroken block of text that is not even being vaguely considered to be broken into paragraphs.

[C]

Love it.

[B]

So do you.

[C]

Gives me joy.

[B]

Do you have a power ranking of worst sports media texters?

[A]

Dominique's dead. Last.

[B]

Dead last.

[A]

Perfect Dominique again. Because today we had other options for this story. And I'm like, I guess we're going to do the story that most accurately describes the guy who's supposed to bring this in.

[C]

I'm not in very many group chat. Group chats. I consider Mina one of my closest friends. Have zero group chats with Mina, and maybe I should rethink that, but I think I was in. I. I'll leave a group chat.

[B]

I love that. I love that for you.

[C]

I'll leave a group chat, like, out of here.

[B]

The little tiny text that's Dominique Foxworth has left the chat is.

[C]

I'm gone, bro.

[A]

You will leave. I am in group chats that I have not contributed a single thing to. But I'm just lurking.

[C]

Like silence.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, hell yeah.

[C]

So, like, I.

[B]

Hell yes.

[C]

I don't like having the red bubble. So, like, I can't silence the group chat because then it says 300 and I don't know when I've gotten a new. You gotta go. You're out of here. You're out of here. If your group chat is, like, too aggressive, you're out of here. I have one group chat that in the group chat that I love the most is my favorite group chat, and it's three other guys and me, and we all have the proper ratio and understanding of each other's. Time and respect for each other. So it's like if somebody falls off from the group chat and they miss something, it's cool. And if it gets super engaged, it's cool. If we don't talk for a couple days, it's cool. It's a. It's a bunch of dudes my age who see the world similar to me. And. And sometimes they're like, even. It'll be a group chat that we deal with, like, real things. Like the thing this article was talking about. Guys, text is a tough place to, like, be vulnerable. It's a group chat where a guy, like, hey, dealing with this.

[A]

There's this. There's an anecdote in this piece in the Atlantic about a guy who I guess abandoned his group chat also because nobody acknowledged that his mom had died.

[C]

Yeah, that's bull.

[B]

That's nuts.

[C]

Which one? Which part is nuts exactly? Yeah, I think the. I. I know that you guys think the other party's nuts.

[B]

You think that he put it on. The group chat is the nuts part.

[C]

Yeah. You left because they ain't acknowledged your mom died out of here.

[B]

I guess I have questions.

[C]

I mean, it's stupid. Yeah, it's a stupid reason to leave the group chat.

[B]

Not even a thumbs up. You talking about sad face?

[A]

I don't know, just the crying.

[C]

No, I'm sorry, man.

[B]

If there's anything you need, hit me up.

[A]

But this. But this is. But. So the reason why that. That anecdote resonates is because I'm like, I don't want.

[B]

Yeah, no, no, that should be.

[A]

That shouldn't be in the group where we're handling this.

[B]

That shouldn't be in the group chat.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

But at the same time, it is weird to be in a continuous flow of conversation with some dudes and a traumatic thing happens to you and you're.

[C]

Like, you name the group chat?

[B]

Yeah, got a name. But also, once it's in the chat, someone has to. The group chat there if you need me.

[A]

The group chat is titled. Everything's going to be mean about this guy.

[C]

No, I mean. No, I'm saying a group chat has a title because it doesn't. What belongs in there is not like the group chat's always fun titles. It's like, oh, we're in a very.

[B]

Fun title group chat, the three of us.

[C]

Are we?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Rust belt Strip club enthusiasts.

[C]

Oh, that's right.

[B]

Because Dominique was an enthusiast as a teen.

[C]

I was not.

[A]

That's not true.

[C]

Do you remember the.

[A]

You were. Dominique was being Recruited by the University of Pittsburgh.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And he was taken to an establishment in which the quality of entertainment was surprisingly high.

[C]

No, it was not. It was expectedly low. And. And so then that became the title of our group chat, which is not an active group chat at all. Respect it. Stay out of it. Unless you got some to say it was active. Until then, it died.

[B]

Debatable. Ended.

[A]

We have not texted each other in the me, Charlie Kravitz, Dominique Foxworth, Kevin Clark. Group chat, Rust Belt strip club enthusiasts since April 24th.

[C]

Perfect. Don't start now.

[B]

I got a question about the group chat stuff, because Pablo is on the most liberal side of this. Can you betray the confidence of the group chat for content?

[A]

What does betray mean?

[B]

You use it publicly without everyone know. Without everyone knowing it's going to be content?

[C]

Of course not.

[A]

You think I need a permission slip to be like, hey, I'm going to talk about this in this specific way. Here are some jokes I'm planning.

[C]

No, no, no, no, no. You just need to ask for permission. Like the sanctity of the group chat. I would never say anything to Pablo that I didn't want. There was a time when I might divulge something personal.

[B]

Pablo, that's a personal. It's a personal text.

[C]

Long gone.

[B]

Personal text. Pablo in the group chat.

[C]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. There is nothing personal going to Pablo because Pablo's first thought is, how can I make a show out of this?

[A]

No, it's your second thought. My first thought is, how is my friend doing? My second thought is, how can I.

[C]

Make a show.

[A]

On my.

[C]

So she's like, no, I'm good. Pablo and I are not those type of friends.

[B]

See, I would text something personal to Pablo on a side chat, but once it's in the main chat. First of all, I would never text on my personal. In the main chat because it's project dynamics.

[A]

Too much though.

[C]

Yeah, I guess that's a more interesting question.

[B]

No, no, but I mean, like, I.

[C]

Wouldn'T even go to the group chat. We all have done. This obviously, is when you have a group chat, right? You side chat someone, one particular person from the group chat, about something that someone else said in the group chat.

[B]

Is Pablo talking about in the group chat?

[C]

Is that so the ethics on that, you guys think that's completely fine.

[A]

I mean, you can't stop it.

[C]

I know.

[A]

It is a fear, though, that I think we all have.

[C]

That's my favorite thing about my group chat is if they got a side check, the group Chat that I love the most. If there's a side chat on this, then what the are we saying it is? Because all the comes out as soon as someone says some does. You get cooked or silent for a long time. Then you realize that you are. You've said something that deserves cooking.

[B]

I've said I've sent bad texts that get silent. It's not bad. Just like a bad joke. Or like, damn, that one bombed. It might be the worst feeling in the world.

[A]

Yeah. When you're the last person to text something and there's no response for a day.

[B]

A day in an active group chat.

[A]

They're chatting without me.

[B]

Now the other thing about the group chat is like, it starts bigger and then there's splinter smaller chats. And I always wonder, like, what's the number where I know I got to the. The terminal ending of the smallest chat.

[A]

It's the opposite of college football alignment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Everything's getting smaller and you're just like, I think I got. I think I got booted out. Yeah. PAC 12.

[B]

I'm in the six person chat. But there's probably a four person chat.

[A]

Okay, so final rankings of sports media's worst group chatters slash texters. You're saying that Katie Nolan, Dan Lebatard are both worse than Dominique.

[B]

Definitely. And I give Dan more of a pass because of age.

[A]

Because Dan does it.

[C]

I'm fine.

[A]

You know how to operate technology in general.

[B]

That's right. He once putting his AirPods upside down and Mike Ryan had to turn them up. Turn them right side up for him. So yes, that tracks. He gets a pass.

[A]

At the end of every episode of Pablo Torre finds out a show about finding stuff out. Dominique, I don't want to go first regain consciousness. We are going to say what we all found out today. Charlie Kravitz, we'll begin with you.

[B]

There was a theme for this show.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

That theme was being genuine and having community. And I found out that you guys are my community. And I really like that. It was great to be back here with us.

[C]

That thing you found out feels like Pablo's sweater. It's very, like, cozy.

[A]

It's like a hug hasn't been washed.

[C]

Oh, never mind.

[A]

But definitely authentic.

[C]

I found out Pablo's dirty wash your sweater.

[B]

Dominique's hungry again.

[A]

I know. What I found out is that Dominique.

[C]

Gotta eat every couple hours, man. Need some protein.

[A]

God. Naturally charismatic Dominic Foxworth needs to be refueled. Apologize. I think the most offensive thing anyone has ever done on my show is actively simulate snoring I'm sorry.

[C]

I'm out of gas. Been talking about football since 5 in the morning. You mother. Get off my back. God damn.

[A]

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production and I'll talk to you next time.