Pablo Torre Finds Out — “Share & Roast & Tell”

With Charlotte Wilder and Sarah Spain
Date: May 10, 2024
Podcast: Pablo Torre Finds Out (Le Batard & Friends)

Episode Overview

Pablo Torre is joined by Charlotte Wilder and Sarah Spain for a lively episode exploring the art and culture of public roasting, pop music “beef,” internet discourse, and the lore of contemporary celebrity. The conversation ranges from the Netflix Tom Brady Roast and rap feuds (Drake vs. Kendrick), to Taylor Swift’s cryptic songwriting, aging pop stars, and childhood pet stories. The trio blends humor, critique, and personal anecdotes, using each topic as an entry point to discuss broader questions of authenticity, identity, and the digital culture of “share, roast, and tell.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Era of Roasts and Public Beefs

[03:40–11:12]

• Culture of Verbal Humiliation:
  Pablo notes we’re living in “peak roast, peak beef,” referencing public spectacles like the Tom Brady Netflix roast and the highly publicized Drake-Kendrick Lamar diss tracks.

• Roasts as Entertainment:
  The group discusses society’s appetite for seeing celebrities verbally spar and the shifting line between entertainment and mean-spiritedness.

  “All of that… it's just felt so mean-spirited. And I was like, oh, do we really need this? There's multiple wars happening and the world sucks. This isn't where I want to spend my time.” — Sarah Spain [06:47]

• Social Media’s Role:
  Sarah reflects on stepping back from Twitter, feeling it made her “want to be mean less,” linking the adversarial “neuroplasticity” of online spaces to increased real-world cruelty.

  “I think like neuroplasticity and the adversarial brain, you’re telling your brain to go down these pathways the more you use them.” — Sarah Spain [05:05]

• Secret Codes and English Class Vibes:
  Pablo and Sarah riff on how both rap fans and Swifties decode cryptic clues hidden in songs, likening this to literary analysis in English class.

  “I’m on the total outside of the Taylor Swift Da Vinci Code industrial complex.” — Pablo Torre [07:34]
  “This is English class.” — Sarah Spain [08:31]

Notable Moment:

“Judaism has a whole… the Kabala, the Talmud, the mysticism… read the Bible and then wrote texts on the side… being like, I think this. I think God was dissing Abraham, the original rap genius.” — Pablo & Charlotte [09:43–09:59]

2. Celebrity Lore & The Craft of Public Narrative

[11:12–18:10]

• Gossip as a Bonding Mechanism:
  Charlotte calls public beef “just gossip,” pointing out that it’s a universal human impulse, now supercharged online.
• Comparing Music Dramas:
  The group explores how Taylor Swift’s fanbase dissects her clues about exes, drawing parallels to rap feuds and noting the storytelling strategies artists use.
• Beyoncé’s “Research Paper Album”:
  Charlotte and Sarah discuss Beyoncé’s Cowboy Carter, commending the deep, intellectual storytelling and references.

  “They literally call it a research paper album. And in a good way.” — Sarah Spain [17:21]

3. Aging Pop Stars, Authenticity, and “Thirst”

[19:28–32:20]

• How Pop Stars Age in the Spotlight:
  Prompted by an Atlantic article on Justin Timberlake’s SNL appearance, the trio debates why some stars (Timberlake, JLo) struggle with “cringe” and others (Beyoncé, Taylor Swift) seem ageless.

• The Ingredients for Aging Gracefully:
  Discussion centers on what “cool” looks like: authenticity, self-acceptance, continual artistic growth—and whether you’re visibly trying too hard.

  “What it means to be cool is that other people can tell that you’re cool with yourself.” — Charlotte Wilder [25:24]

• Comparison to Athletes: Charlotte draws a parallel between aging pop stars and pro athletes like LeBron, noting the rare physical and artistic prowess required to remain at the top.

• Lore vs. Image:
  Stars with negative “lore” (e.g., Timberlake’s treatment of Janet Jackson, Britney Spears) have it harder than those who focus on songwriting or narrative evolution.

• Public Reaction & Internet Cynicism:
  Discussion of “thirst trap” photos and how the internet’s response to stars’ self-presentation reflects a wider cultural reckoning with authenticity and power.

Notable Quote:

“There’s an earnestness to Taylor Swift… she’s self-reflective… JLo and Justin would never let you see a crack, which makes it hard… to feel like they’re being authentic.” — Sarah Spain [26:04]

• Who Ages Well?
  The crew namechecks Joni Mitchell, Tracy Chapman as having aged well by embodying wisdom, compared to the “box office concept” of the pop star.

4. First Pets, Children, and Learning About Loss

[32:20–44:50]

• Pablo’s Daughter Gets a Fish:
  Lighthearted segment about Violet’s new betta (beta?) fish, “Coop” (a compromise from her first choice, “Poop”), sparking discussion on first pets, parental responsibility, and the cycle of life.

• Pets and Responsibility:
  Charlotte and Sarah reminisce about their childhood pets, emphasizing how animals teach kids about responsibility and, notably, about loss.

  “Part of having a pet, which is good for kids, is understanding that death happens...” — Charlotte Wilder [40:41]

• The Fish-Dog Hierarchy:
  Sarah advocates for dogs over fish (“You can’t hug a fish”), and they joke about the inevitable emotional escalation from fish to dog ownership.

5. Octopuses—a Tangent on Alien Intelligence

[44:00–45:49]

• Sarah jokes that octopuses may be aliens, citing their unique DNA and intelligence, referencing the film “My Octopus Teacher” and their potential as “great lovers” (in typical irreverent fashion).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Pop Culture as a Soap Opera:

  “Actually, my take about like the NBA soap opera for men is… too limiting. We all see soap opera in everything… All of the time.” — Pablo Torre [15:15]

• On Filling Narrative Gaps:

  “We fill in the blanks where we don’t know things. And… these things can go beyond what the author intended.” — Charlotte Wilder [48:08]

• On Roasting:

  "It's hard to talk about roasts for me without sounding... I hate it." — Charlotte Wilder [18:10]

• On First Pet Names:

  “He had a cat named Aaron Purr.” — Charlotte Wilder [39:10]

• On Childhood Pet Trauma:
  Pablo retells the harrowing story of his childhood hamsters, who cannibalized their young in a "Patrick Bateman Ferris wheel of death.” [41:41–42:49]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|-------| | 03:40–11:12 | Roasts, beefs, online meanness, and English class interpretive culture | | 11:12–18:10 | Taylor Swift, Beyoncé, layers of celebrity narrative and gossip | | 19:28–32:20 | Aging pop stars, authenticity, and 'try-hard' culture | | 32:20–44:50 | First pets, learning loss and responsibility as children | | 44:00–45:49 | Octopus tangent: intelligence, aliens, and “great lovers” | | 45:49–End | Wrap-up: Mysteries, projections, English class, and the value of filling in narrative gaps |

Tone & Style

The conversation is quick, irreverent, and packed with both pop culture references and sincere moments of vulnerability. Pablo is as much ringleader as participant, frequently guiding—but sometimes helpless in—the wide-ranging, often tangential discussions. The trio’s chemistry allows for frequent ribbing and self-deprecation, while always returning to larger questions about how we perform, interpret, and create meaning in public.

Conclusion & Final Insights

• Subjectivity and Projection:
  Both in music and everyday life, we interpret clues and “blank spaces,” often going far beyond what was literally intended—whether it’s dissecting lyrics, reading into celebrities’ actions, or even naming a pet.
• Social Media’s Lasting Impact:
  The adversarial dynamics fostered online have tangible impacts on how we see and interact with others, feeding into cultural obsessions with “beef” and spectacle.
• Aging and Authenticity:
  How gracefully a public figure ages is less about years than about self-knowledge and the ability to be real—whether that comes via songwriting, public persona, or just being cool with oneself.
• On Life’s Lessons:
  Even the most mundane topics—the death of a fish, the humor of a pet’s name—spark discussion about mortality, memory, and what it means to be human (with or without a “fish-dog bias”).

In Pablo’s Words:

“What I found… is something that I did not even think was possible, which is that Charlotte Wilder could inadvertently mention the name of a Taylor Swift song without intentionally calling out the blank space aspect of this entire conversation.” [48:20]

For those who haven’t listened:
This episode is a deft mixture of comedy, cultural critique, and deeply personal storytelling—a characteristic “Le Batard & Friends” production where you’ll leave with new pop culture knowledge, a few hearty laughs, and maybe a little more sympathy for the humble beta fish.