Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: Share & Screenwrite & Tell with Domonique Foxworth and David Samson
Date: September 17, 2024
Host: Pablo Torre
Guests: Domonique Foxworth, David Samson

Brief Overview

This episode is a lively exploration of Domonique Foxworth’s unexpected foray into Hollywood as a staff writer on the new FX series American Sports Story: Aaron Hernandez. Joined by regulars David Samson and Pablo Torre, the trio blends insightful discussion about the art of turning real-world journalism into dramatic television with their trademark banter. The conversation weaves through themes of sports, masculinity, ethics in storytelling, group creativity, and the challenges of humanizing (but not excusing) a complex protagonist.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Domonique's Hollywood Journey

• The Role of "Staff Writer":

  • Foxworth humbly downplays the title, comparing it to being an offensive lineman: “It’s not a glory position, but you do a lot of work that allows the rest of the sausage to be made.” (01:48)
  • Staff writers do essential background work; showrunners and actors are the quarterbacks and wide receivers.

• How He Got the Gig:

  • Expressed a long-standing interest to his agent, met with showrunner Stu Zuckerman, initially hired as a consultant, and later promoted (“I think he assumed because I had another full time job…after the first week…they sent over a contract.” 09:59).
  • He worked his way into the writing room by being fully engaged and contributing meaningfully.

2. The Anatomy of a Writers’ Room

• Collaborative Process:

  • Work begins with “themes” and “character images,” then develops into beat sheets (detailed story outlines for each character), followed by blending these to form episode outlines (10:51–11:59).
  • The craft involves careful consensus, constant rewrites, and balancing multiple creative visions, making analogies to football: “It’s the same thing where one person could mess all of this up.” (08:34)

• Adapting Journalism for Entertainment:

  • The series is a dramatization, not a documentary; the Boston Globe’s reporting (and podcast series) serves as source material, but the focus is on conveying emotional truth, not literal fact (12:23, 13:20).
  • Foxworth grapples with the tension between accuracy and drama, especially as a former NFL player: “We all have the instinct to be accurate… but there are [times you] need to be accurate to the feeling and not accurate to the event. And that was challenging for me…” (12:59)

3. Ethics and Challenges of Fictionalizing Real Events

• Journalistic Integrity vs. Entertainment:

  • Discussion about the risk of fictionalized stories becoming the public’s main perception of historical events (16:00–18:30).
  • Pablo and David question the “harm” in dramatizing real events and whether viewers will distinguish fact from fiction (“Are we warping people’s sense of history by feeding them a fictionalized version of nonfiction?” – Pablo, 19:15).

• Foxworth’s Perspective:

  • He contends that as long as the “core of the story” is intact and the show is clearly labeled as fiction, creative license is justified: “There’s nothing…that I believe violates the core of the story.” (18:30)
  • The true goal is to offer understanding and context, not excuses.

4. Portraying Complex Characters

• Humanizing without Excusing:

  • Foxworth: “We wanted to make a show that humanized Aaron, but doesn’t justify Aaron.” (26:18)
  • The show aims to add dimensions and complexity to all characters, especially Aaron Hernandez and his father.

• Memorable Scenes and Character Choices:

  • Urban Meyer’s introduction scene (eyeliner, surrounded by cheerleaders) is discussed as an artistic condensation of the real-life persona (“It changed, and so, like, that’s not completely accurate, but it was an opportunity for us to say all the things about the character…” – 22:13).
  • The "foot rub" scene is debated for its ambiguous symbolism, with Foxworth pointing out that meaning comes from the viewer: “The truest thing you can say about art is often what you see is what you bring to it.” (24:07)

• Roots of Empathy and the ‘Villain’ Protagonist:

  • How do you emotionally invest viewers when the protagonist did evil acts? Do shows need someone to "root for"? (28:48–29:50)
  • Foxworth argues investment doesn’t have to mean rooting for someone—it can also mean being drawn into the emotional web.

5. Group Chemistry and Banter

• The episode is infused with playful teasing:

  • On Dominique’s Hollywood cred: “You can tell he’s already using this to do another one and he wants to not do another football related one. He’s dressing Hollywood.” – David (24:32)
  • On friendship and support: “I expect butterflies and unicorns from you guys. Like, that’s what friends do.” – Domonique (05:57)

• Closing in-jokes touch on Pablo’s shoes, credit-hogging, and whether Dominique is abandoning his podcasting roots for Hollywood (“I almost responded to that earnestly, then I realized I’m being mocked. So I thank you, friends, for being the friends I’ve always known and loved.” – Domonique, 38:16).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On writers’ rooms:
  “I think these are known, this is known things, right.” – Foxworth (02:47)
  “So many hands it touches before it actually becomes what you consume.” – Foxworth (09:00)

• On entertainment vs. journalism:
  “We all have the instinct to be accurate… but there are times you need to be accurate to the feeling and not accurate to the event.” – Foxworth (12:59)

• On character complexity:
  “We wanted to make a show that humanized Aaron, but doesn’t justify Aaron... give context, but not excuse.” – Foxworth (26:18)

• On viewer interpretation:
  “The truest thing you can say about art is often what you see is what you bring to it.” – Foxworth (24:07)

• On team analogies:
  “We’re interior linemen… Of course you make a living. League minimum is a living. It’s not so terrible.” – Foxworth (02:28)

• On friend support:
  “I went into it expecting not to like it ... it had me fast.” – Samson (06:14)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|---------------------| | 01:48 | Foxworth on being a staff writer, Hollywood’s football analogies | | 09:19 | How Foxworth got the job; moving from consultant to writer | | 10:51 | How episodes and character arcs are built before writing scripts | | 12:59 | Ethical challenges: accuracy to event vs. accuracy to feeling | | 18:30 | Litigation and disclaimers; clear distinction from documentary | | 22:13 | Urban Meyer’s makeup/cheerleader scene, symbolism and creative license | | 24:07 | Foxworth on art and interpretation: what viewers bring to scenes | | 26:18 | Humanizing vs. justifying Aaron Hernandez, complexity of protagonists | | 28:48 | The conundrum of rooting for someone in a dark story | | 33:00 | The “wolf”/fixer character, power/privilege in sports institutions | | 38:44 | Banter about future Hollywood ambitions and loyalty to the show |

Episode Flow and Tone

• Tone: The conversation is frank, irreverent, often self-deprecating, and rich in mutual ribbing.
• Style: Naturally conversational, jumping from big philosophical questions to granular details of TV writing and back to inside jokes.
• Value for listeners: Even without seeing the show, listeners gain a sharp sense of how TV drama is crafted from journalism, the creative and ethical tensions in that adaptation, and the personal journey of someone (Foxworth) leaping from the NFL and sports journalism to Hollywood writing.