Share & Smooch & Tell with Katie Nolan and Michael Cruz Kayne

Summary

Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: "Share & Smooch & Tell with Katie Nolan and Michael Cruz Kayne"

Date: September 23, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre (The Athletic)
Guests: Katie Nolan, Dan Soder
(Note: Despite the title, the transcript features Katie Nolan and Dan Soder as primary guests.)

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Brief Overview

This episode explores the intersections of personal boundaries, the artifice of acting, social media habits, and cultural perceptions around relationships—both real and performed. Through playful banter and candid confessions, Pablo, Katie, and Dan wander from tales of being "blindsided" by comedian guests to awkward reflections on on-screen intimacy and broader questions about authenticity in both showbiz and everyday life. The group also touches on trending topics, from celebrity body image to the cultural "work wife" phenomenon, infusing each segment with humor and revealing self-awareness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Podcast Dynamic & Recap of Recent Episodes

[02:15 – 04:42]

• Light-hearted banter about being late to record, fan-made merch, and social media interactions.
• Catch-up on previous guest ("Hamburger"), who sent a heartfelt thank-you that moved the crew.
• Notable Quote:

  “Dear Pablo, mere words cannot express my gratitude for align me best guest on your podcast...” – Reading of Hamburger’s message, [03:37]

• Katie Nolan describes her sense of “missing out” and reflects on surprise moments with guests.

2. Social Media Habits and Annoyances

[05:01 – 06:45]

• The trio discusses Instagram etiquette, following/follower philosophies, and the transactional nature of engagement.
• Dan Soder’s minimal online presence prompts a playful interrogation from Katie.
• A lament for the “old days” of Twitter:

  “The website that used to be all about the character limit, that taught me how to make things—it made me funnier—now... it’s 18 paragraphs from a billionaire about how business works.” — Katie Nolan, [06:23]

3. The Structure of the Podcast & Shifting Norms

[06:48 – 07:54]

• Pablo admits the show's structure is now looser and more freeing:

  “…now I just see this so genuinely as relief. And I mean that in every sense… This feels like a nice change of pace.” — Pablo Torre, [06:58]

4. On-Screen Intimacy and Monogamy: Can You Act Kissing?

[09:03 – 16:16]

• Main thread: Katie admits she’d struggle with acting in intimate scenes, seeing it as “embarrassingly monogamous.”
• The group references the “Superman Smooch” controversy—fans commenting on the partner of actress Rachel Brosnahan, who plays Lois Lane, after her chemistry with Superman actor David Corenswet:

  “…all of these people are in his mentions making fun of him for being cucked by yum yum delish Superman?” — Pablo Torre, [12:23]

• Dan acknowledges that online commentary amplifies insecurities:

  “…whatever capability you have to overcome just the smooching Plus, a third party jumping in and being like, ‘you should be upset about this,’ I think would make you… feel worse.” — Dan Soder, [12:59]

• Case study: Neil McDonough, who refused to kiss other women on-screen for personal reasons, describes being shut out by Hollywood.
• Katie reflects on confusion between real and fake, especially as acting blurs those lines in a “deepfake” era:

  “...I think we need to know what's real and what's fake because things are starting to get a little go.” — Katie Nolan, [14:28]

• The group agrees that creating “fake chemistry” is a true skill, and for some, it’s simply not possible.

5. The “Work Wife” Phenomenon & Emotional Boundaries

[24:49 – 26:18]

• Benign flirtations with “work wife” and “work husband” labels—Rob (a producer) is cited as Pablo’s “work wife.”
• Rob sends a lookalike photo, prompting playful side conversations about male celebrity doppelgängers.

6. On-Screen Roles, Peabody/Emmy Experiences, and Roles That Got Cut

[27:01 – 31:03]

• Dan recounts being cast for a one-line part in "Succession" that was edited out, relating the stress of minor acting gigs.

• "I'm effectively a lamp." — Katie Nolan, on walk-on roles and the pressure to perform accurately on-set [29:45]

• They joke about the dangers of “stealing the show” with a minor role and contemplate hypothetical spin-offs ("Hey Captain").

7. Watching Partners on Screen – Jealousy, Vulnerability, and Comic Relief

[33:33 – 35:01]

• Katie refuses to watch Dan’s romance scenes, admitting she’d struggle seeing a partner in “Smooch City.”

• “Here's your wife cheating on you. Roll it, boys.” — Katie Nolan, [34:46]

• Pablo feigns instigating drama by threatening to play more intimate clips.

8. Celebrity Endorsements, GLP-1 Medications, and Body Image Complexity

[41:44 – 47:10]

• Discussion pivots to Serena Williams’ endorsements for GLP-1 weight loss medications (Row), the ethics of celebrity health advice, and implications for young fans.

• "She is the paragon of female athleticism..." — Pablo Torre, [43:29]

• Katie is uneasy with Serena as a spokesperson, concerned that admitting to using weight loss drugs creates conflicting messages for self-image.

• "What my issue is… watching it in execution—and it’s not destigmatizing, it's actually reinforcing the shame that’s associated with it by saying that she's coming clean about it.” — Katie Nolan, [47:09]

9. Economic Divide in Healthcare

[49:29 – 49:50]

• Dan points out the likely future of weight-loss drugs as a class marker—those who can afford them vs. those who can't.

• "...once everybody's on this, there’s going to be a very visible line between who can afford it and who can't." — Dan Soder, [49:29]

10. Comic Relief and “Palate Cleansers”

[51:53 – End]

• The group reminisces about childhood braces, early haircuts, and bullying—turning vulnerability into comfort and laughter.

• “Once those braces came off... I was a king... Dupixent, baby.” — Dan Soder, [41:12]

• Katie’s elementary school photo becomes the final “palate cleanser,” cementing a tone of warmth and nostalgia.

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “Dear Pablo, mere words cannot express my gratitude…” — Hamburger’s thank you [03:37]
• “The website that used to be all about the character limit... is now... 18 paragraphs from a billionaire...” — Katie Nolan on Twitter [06:23]
• “...now I just see this so genuinely as relief.” — Pablo on running a loosely structured show [06:58]
• “...I'm embarrassingly monogamous.” — Katie Nolan [09:03]
• “...how does her partner in real life feel now that all of these people are in his mentions making fun of him for being cucked by yum yum delish Superman?” — Pablo Torre [12:23]
• “Creating fake chemistry is the antithesis to me of what my whole life is about.” — Katie Nolan [15:26]
• “I'm effectively a lamp.” — Katie Nolan [29:45]
• “Here's your wife cheating on you. Roll it, boys.” — Katie Nolan [34:46]
• “She is the paragon of female athleticism...” — Pablo Torre [43:29]
• “...it’s not destigmatizing, it’s actually reinforcing the shame...” — Katie Nolan on Serena Williams’ endorsement [47:10]
• “...once everybody’s on this, there’s going to be a very visible line between who can afford it and who can’t.” — Dan Soder [49:29]

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• [02:15 – 04:42]: Opening banter, Hamburger story, and merch talk
• [05:01 – 06:45]: Instagram follow-wars, social media etiquette
• [09:03 – 16:16]: Smooch City—debate on acting, real/fake intimacy, and the Superman controversy
• [24:49 – 26:18]: "Work wife" phenomenon, emotional boundaries at work
• [27:01 – 31:03]: Dan’s bit parts and the inside baseball of being a TV extra
• [41:44 – 47:10]: Serena Williams, GLP-1s, the cultural tangle of body image
• [49:29 – 49:50]: Economic divide in health and medicine
• [51:53 – End]: Childhood nostalgia, palate cleanser, and closing warmth

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Tone & Style

The episode is filled with quick, dry wit, self-deprecation, and earnest dialogue that oscillates between incisiveness and absurdity. Katie’s blend of vulnerability and comedic timing, Dan’s sardonic humor, and Pablo’s earnest curiosity fuel a conversational warmth that turns even personal or tough topics into approachable fare. The trio never sidesteps complexity or discomfort—they lean in, laugh, and land on honest admissions.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out stands out for its blend of pop culture scrutiny, self-aware humor, and real vulnerability. From smooching on-screen to the ramifications of celebrity body talk, it delivers laughs, fresh perspectives, and a sense of camaraderie. At its heart, it’s a rich, talky exploration of how we blur the personal and the performative, whether online, at work, or in love.

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(For those who haven’t listened, this summary provides a roadmap of the themes, inside jokes, and meaningful exchanges that defined the episode—no ketchup required.)

Transcript

[Katie Nolan]

Pablo.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm Pablo Torre. And this episode of Pablo Torre Finds out is brought to you by Remy Martin. 1738 Accord Royale Exceptionally smooth cognac for all your game day festivities. Please drink responsibly because today we're going to find out what this sound is.

[Katie Nolan]

I mean, not back in college.

[Dan Soder]

For.

[Pablo Torre]

Absolute God offering a fist bump to a limp.

[Dan Soder]

I just got a non consensual fist.

[Katie Nolan]

Bump.

[Pablo Torre]

Right after this ad.

[Doug Limu]

High interest debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face unless you power.

[Dan Soder]

Up with a Sofi personal loan. A Sofi personal loan could repackage your bad debt into one low fixed rate monthly payment.

[Pablo Torre]

It's even got super speed since you.

[Doug Limu]

Could get the funds as soon as the same day you sign. Visit sofi.compower to learn more.

[Dan Soder]

That's sofi.com p-o w e r loans.

[Doug Limu]

Originated by SOFI bank and a member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply.

[Dan Soder]

NMLS 696891 what do you think makes the perfect snack?

[Doug Limu]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[Katie Nolan]

Could you be more specific?

[Doug Limu]

When it's cray venient. Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at am pm. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at a.m. pM.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Doug Limu]

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.

[Katie Nolan]

Crave, which is anything from am pm.

[Doug Limu]

What more could you want? Stop by AMPM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience ampm. Too much good stuff. And Doug, here we have the Limu.

[Pablo Torre]

IMU in its natural habitat, helping people.

[Doug Limu]

Customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual.

[Pablo Torre]

Fascinating.

[Dan Soder]

It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Doug Limu]

Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

[Dan Soder]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com. liberty.

[Pablo Torre]

Liberty. Liberty.

[Katie Nolan]

Liberty Savings.

[Dan Soder]

Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.

[Katie Nolan]

Where the were you, dude?

[Dan Soder]

I'm at work, dude.

[Pablo Torre]

I got aing job, dude.

[Katie Nolan]

Does it make it into so do I. Does it make it into the YouTube video? If I'm not late? If I'm the one who was here first, Were you getting to it then?

[Pablo Torre]

First before.

[Dan Soder]

Before both of us. Before, first, before me.

[Katie Nolan]

I mean, Pablo lives here. It's his office.

[Pablo Torre]

Slept under this.

[Katie Nolan]

He works all the time and everyone's mad at him.

[Pablo Torre]

And that makes me wealthy.

[Katie Nolan]

It's not your first New York Times episode because you guys did an episode without me. But I. This might be my first New York Times episode.

[Dan Soder]

You guys can't wait.

[Pablo Torre]

In our partnership, this is very legal specific.

[Katie Nolan]

Is it or is it not?

[Dan Soder]

Can I.

[Pablo Torre]

Can I say New York Times and the Athletics.

[Dan Soder]

That was Hamburger's New York Times, right?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Hamburger made his debut in the Athletic Podcast network in partnership with the New York Times. Do you guys not pick up what I'm putting down? This is a very specifically. Oh, yeah, we got merch. A fan. A fan made merch. This is not even our own doing, but thank you to Ernie Threads.

[Katie Nolan]

Ernie Threads. Let me know.

[Dan Soder]

Ernie Threads.

[Katie Nolan]

Look at that sick hat. What's the joke I missed? Not that I don't listen to every episode, Pablo.

[Dan Soder]

It's just I have the transcript of every episode tattooed on my back if you want to read it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This.

[Pablo Torre]

This is. This is a key part of the thing that people are already sick of us.

[Katie Nolan]

My back.

[Dan Soder]

Really big bank.

[Pablo Torre]

How are you guys? How are you guys?

[Katie Nolan]

Good.

[Dan Soder]

Can I. Can I say something? Did Alonzo Hamburger. Did he send you a message on Instagram?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, he did. He sent me. He sent me a text. I got. Dear Pablo, mere words cannot express my gratitude for align me best guest on your podcast. I. I never imagine the episode of sheet such an overwhelming response. I truly appreciate the opportunity. Kudos to your editing staff. What an awesome job. Exclamation point. It goes on. It goes on. Hamburger was not entirely sure when he joined whether it was in fact Michael Joe or not. I think for various points not clear to him. Still, now it is.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm glad went well. I also felt bad in the moment being blindsided by Hamburger, because I did feel like I owed it to standup comedy to have known who that was. I should have known that that's when that was like, the whitest thing I've ever done was not knowing who he was.

[Pablo Torre]

I think it's the whitest thing that all of us had ever done.

[Katie Nolan]

And then I got left out of when you guys got to go like, we're not that white. And I'm like, yeah, that's. I know. What about?

[Dan Soder]

Because we literally aren't that way.

[Pablo Torre]

I know we had to lose you on account of being the whitest person in the room, but he was so. He was so gracious.

[Dan Soder]

Straight up. Lovely.

[Katie Nolan]

That's so sweet.

[Pablo Torre]

No one sends a thank you note after. No, that begins. Dear Pablo, mere words cannot express my gratitude. And it goes on. I'm just like this man yeah, that's.

[Katie Nolan]

Really made me cry a little bit.

[Pablo Torre]

And now I just love that people on our, like, social accounts, just whenever we do something notable, people just go hamburger.

[Dan Soder]

Speaking of your social accounts, I don't think this show follows me. I don't think I'm followed by this show on Instagram. And honestly, that's fine. Whatever. Whatever.

[Katie Nolan]

I don't follow the show.

[Dan Soder]

What's that?

[Katie Nolan]

I don't.

[Dan Soder]

I don't follow anyone. So that maybe that's why I never follow the show.

[Katie Nolan]

You don't follow anyone?

[Dan Soder]

I follow my wife, my son, my sister, my brother.

[Katie Nolan]

But it's part of the ecosystem. If anyone's going to follow you, you owe it to follow.

[Dan Soder]

Well, I don't, though.

[Pablo Torre]

This is why we weren't in the VIP line for a special. It was those people that he.

[Dan Soder]

You were. You were in the.

[Katie Nolan]

You were on Instagram. You'd know we're a big deal if you followed us. You'd know.

[Dan Soder]

I only. I only look at the people. Like, if you. Let's say you like my thing, then I look. Then I look at your thing.

[Katie Nolan]

That's. Do you realize how that sounds? Are you hearing yourself say it?

[Dan Soder]

You don't understand, though. Yes, it sounds bad, but you. But the people, the people.

[Pablo Torre]

Purely transactional.

[Katie Nolan]

If you like me, I'll consider you.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. People look at my. Like I look through people look at my story, you know, whatever. Then I look. Then I go click, click, click, click, click through those people. But I don't.

[Katie Nolan]

That's insane.

[Dan Soder]

That's an insane person followed. I don't want to be following people on Instagram.

[Katie Nolan]

What if the people who look at your story don't know? What if you don't know them? What if they're just people?

[Dan Soder]

Then I. Very quickly, I'm like, I'm not.

[Katie Nolan]

What a waste of your precious time.

[Dan Soder]

I don't know. I think if I followed more people on Instagram, it would be. It would be bad for my Twitter. Twitter now is absolutely horrible for me.

[Katie Nolan]

Twitter sucks in general.

[Dan Soder]

It does.

[Katie Nolan]

Gone. I miss what it was.

[Pablo Torre]

Disagree.

[Dan Soder]

You like it better now because you're.

[Katie Nolan]

You're famous, engaging in stuff. I mean, you're having full.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm beefing.

[Dan Soder]

I'm beefing with billionaires for you. It's good.

[Katie Nolan]

That's why Twitter sucks. Cuz I log on for, like, little jokey joke.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

The. The. The website that used to be all about the character limit, that taught me about how to make things. It made me funnier.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

Is now I log on and it's 18 paragraphs from a billionaire about how business works at my friend. And I don't understand or care about any of it. And I go. I'm just going to go scroll through people's pictures from vacation.

[Pablo Torre]

Can I confess that, like, I'm so glad I don't know anymore.

[Katie Nolan]

Can we just say that the podcast is going to start?

[Dan Soder]

Well, I think that used to happen with this podcast also. It used to be like, hey, guys, before you come in, have, like, some this, this, and this. Prepare. Yeah. Now it's just absolutely wild west. Anything can happen on this podcast.

[Pablo Torre]

It used to be a thing where I tried to structure it, and now I just see this so genuinely as relief. And I mean that in every sense. Like, relief for this is how most.

[Katie Nolan]

People use a social life. But I. I understand.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This feels like a nice change of pace.

[Katie Nolan]

I lost.

[Pablo Torre]

I was. I was. I was like.

[Katie Nolan]

I started writing an email. What did you say?

[Pablo Torre]

I was just making sure that the Paris Hilton TV series was not called the Social Life. It was called the Simple Life.

[Dan Soder]

The Simple Life.

[Pablo Torre]

And I was like, are you comparing me to. Just like, would you.

[Katie Nolan]

Paris Hilton?

[Dan Soder]

And was Nicole Richie also on the Simple Life?

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Okay.

[Katie Nolan]

They did a whole. You know that pitchfork, what's that called? American.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. Grant. It's part of it. Grant show is not correct. That's the guy from Melrose Place who's married to the lady who won the Emmy.

[Katie Nolan]

Who. Which was the podcast that won the Emmy. Did you see Chris Emiliotti's speech? Most likable lady on Earth. I love that woman. She was so good in Penguin.

[Pablo Torre]

I did not see it.

[Katie Nolan]

And her speech was so cute. It was just so sweet. Thank you so much. I love you. And I love acting so much.

[Dan Soder]

She seems delightful.

[Katie Nolan]

She seems delightful.

[Pablo Torre]

She was there.

[Dan Soder]

I saw her in Once the musical on Broadway.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, my God.

[Dan Soder]

And she was.

[Katie Nolan]

I love Once the Musical. Wait, she can sing?

[Dan Soder]

Oh, brother, can she?

[Katie Nolan]

I think she kissed Dan. I think she kissed Dan in a movie. I've never watched it. Dan's in a romper.

[Pablo Torre]

Now we're finding out stuff.

[Katie Nolan]

Just don't.

[Dan Soder]

We've got to get her and hamburger.

[Katie Nolan]

I'd rather see the bathtub. Okay. I don't.

[Dan Soder]

Why did you say the bathtub?

[Katie Nolan]

Because I don't want them to show me them kissing stuff. Don't.

[Dan Soder]

The bathtub.

[Katie Nolan]

She's so funny.

[Dan Soder]

There's no reason for the bathroom.

[Katie Nolan]

She's so pretty. She's so successful. I know. It's Acting. But I don't. I'm not an actor, so I'm not built. I don't know what actors have in them the ability to go.

[Dan Soder]

The ability.

[Katie Nolan]

It's not my husband that's kissing that person. I go like, ew, stop.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. I think me. I think actors have the ability to break up and get divorced. That's what they have.

[Pablo Torre]

Can we talk about. This is a good topic.

[Dan Soder]

Okay, here we go. We are.

[Pablo Torre]

Here we are. We found it on.

[Katie Nolan]

This is what I brought. I'm going to. I feel like I'm going to expose myself. I feel like that's not a progressive way of thinking. I feel like I'm embarrassingly monogamous.

[Dan Soder]

I see what you're saying. I. I also. I also feel that way. I think that if I had to do if. Well, first of all, I'm nowhere even remotely near the level of success that someone is like, would you want to be in this scene that involves a lot of smooching sore. Smooching plus. God forbid.

[Katie Nolan]

I mean, I couldn't.

[Dan Soder]

But the idea.

[Pablo Torre]

Streaming service.

[Dan Soder]

The idea of smooching plus is absolutely. It's horrifying to me, and I guess it is. That's just part of it.

[Katie Nolan]

Looking at it.

[Dan Soder]

It's just part of it.

[Katie Nolan]

I would never. I'm. I don't know if I would never stop him. I would never stop him from doing something he wants to do. We would have to have a conversation, but I would absolutely stop myself from watching it. That's like. I wouldn't. It would bum me out. Why would I do that?

[Pablo Torre]

This was like a controversy. It's always. It seems a controversy, certainly when it comes to, like, the Superman stuff. Have you guys heard about that controversy?

[Dan Soder]

What's the Superman.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, so David Corenswet.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Who is the new Superman? And the. Lois.

[Katie Nolan]

I haven't seen it yet. Visually. What a Superman, huh?

[Dan Soder]

Yum, yum. Delish.

[Katie Nolan]

I didn't. That's not what I meant. But also. Yes.

[Dan Soder]

Is it not what you meant? But isn't it absolutely Superman? Like, if you. If you just. If you saw that guy walking down the street. But that. That's probably Superman.

[Pablo Torre]

Superman, Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

I think I just saw Superman.

[Katie Nolan]

He has glasses on, but I think it's him.

[Dan Soder]

Have you seen Vision? Have you seen his. Okay, I'm not letting you get the thing you wanted to say. Have you seen his audition tape? His audition tape was circulating.

[Katie Nolan]

Great.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Oh, my.

[Katie Nolan]

A lot of credit goes to his. Also his partner. His. I believe that's his girlfriend. Or wife or whatever his relationship situation is that's doing the reading with him. I'm like, they're doing a great job. It's August 28, 2025, about 3pm I'm sitting here with, of all people, Superman.

[Pablo Torre]

Hello.

[Katie Nolan]

Welcome.

[Dan Soder]

Thank you. I'm pleased to be here.

[Katie Nolan]

This is weird.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm not weirded out at all. You said you wanted to interview me.

[Katie Nolan]

Yes. But I've helped Dan with self tapes and been like, oh, I'm not given with that. My wife letting things breathe.

[Dan Soder]

She's also helped me with self tapes and I feel like my wife went to college for acting as an incredible actress. But sometimes she's like, I'm really not into doing this for the 50th time. So I have to, I have to get it those first few takes. Or she very absolutely reasonably is like, I think this is enough now.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, I think we have it. If we were going to get it, we got it.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. None of these takes are different at this point.

[Pablo Torre]

I love the gentle.

[Katie Nolan]

You're in severance.

[Pablo Torre]

The gentle feedback of like, you need to stop thinking this is going to get better.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. What is happening is progressively you are getting more tired, not better.

[Pablo Torre]

Rachel Brosnahan.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Plays Lois Lane in the new Superman.

[Katie Nolan]

She's great. She was great. But she was also great in the house of cards.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay.

[Dan Soder]

House of cards. Yeah. She's great in house cards.

[Pablo Torre]

So the point being that there was this controversy around her significant other in real life, her partner. And it's a function of how steamy the chemistry was.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Between the two of them such that even there were these like behind the scenes videos of like maybe her planting seemingly a smooch after the camera had stopped rolling so into the scene. They were.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

This was one of the clips that got circulated. And so the question that happened was how does her partner in real life feel now that all of these people are in his mentions making fun of him for being cucked by yum yum delish Superman?

[Katie Nolan]

I mean anybody.

[Dan Soder]

I think the mentions are. The mentions really amplify the problem, I think because it's like, like you know, to are talking and the conversation's kind of innocuous and a third person comes by and is like, oh, you're like, wait, did I. I didn't know that.

[Katie Nolan]

I. I didn't feel that. But now that it's been felt, I.

[Pablo Torre]

Have to take the offense podcast started just the podcast.

[Dan Soder]

The. So I could see that being. However, whatever capability you have to overcome just the, the smooching Plus, a third party jumping in and being like, you should be upset about this, I think would make you naturally. I'm not strong enough to imagine a world where that doesn't make me feel worse.

[Pablo Torre]

So here's a Variety headline from July of this year.

[Dan Soder]

Okay. As this episode is effectively news. This is just breaking, guys.

[Pablo Torre]

We're in the news breaking now. Neil McDonough says in Variety, quote, hollywood turned on me. End quote.

[Dan Soder]

Oh, I remember this.

[Pablo Torre]

I wouldn't kiss another woman on screen. Yeah, Colon. I couldn't get a job, and I lost everything.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, my God.

[Pablo Torre]

Neil McDonough, a veteran character actor who's appeared in everything from Band of Brothers to Desperate Housewives, Minority Report, American Horror Story, suits and more.

[Katie Nolan]

What a. What a. IMDb suits and more. That's great.

[Pablo Torre]

Suits. Plus, he revealed during an interview on the Nothing Left Unsaid podcast that Hollywood shut him out to kiss other actors on screen.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, I remember. I remember hearing about this.

[Pablo Torre]

They have five children together, he and Ru Robertson. Since 2003, they have been married. He's had in his contracts that he wouldn't kiss another woman. And it was him, really, who had a problem with it. This is a quote. My wife didn't have any problem with it.

[Katie Nolan]

It.

[Pablo Torre]

But he couldn't do it, and Hollywood turned on him. Apparently, he got blackballed is what he's saying, because he had this rule, which. But that real Katie Nolan position is what I'm hearing. That's what you. That's what you would do.

[Katie Nolan]

I don't know. I just, like, I can't. I have always said I don't think I'd be a very good actress because I'm not very. My. I kind of only am just this one way, and if you like it, that's awesome. And if you don't, unfortunately, this is what I've got. And so acting's always interesting to me. I also feel like, with the rise of misinformation, just to, like, zoom out a little bit every. The thing I'm losing sight of first is, like, real and fake. Anything that blurs the line of real and fake to me at this time makes me go, like, I don't know. I think we need to know what's real and what's fake because it's. Things are starting to get a little go.

[Dan Soder]

Wait, what are you talking about?

[Katie Nolan]

Zooming out too far to then zoom back in?

[Dan Soder]

Okay.

[Katie Nolan]

That, like, the. I've always had it. I've struggled with being able to act. I couldn't act like I was kissing somebody unless I really was enjoying kissing them, that would be what I would have to do. I would have to be enjoying it to look like I was enjoying it. I mean, not back in college, for God's sake.

[Dan Soder]

For absolute God's sake.

[Pablo Torre]

Offering a fist bump to a limp.

[Dan Soder]

I just got. I just got a non consensual fist bump.

[Katie Nolan]

As a fully realized connected adult. Like, I can't. I don't know how people do. That's how I recognize. What I'm trying to explain is how I recognize acting is a skill. Because there are people that just go like, yeah, I'm kissing that person. It is. It means nothing. I am not enjoying it. They actually have really bad breath. The ability to just make it seem like this incredible, to create fake chemistry is the antithesis to me of what my whole life is about. So I. That's why I. Why am I explaining this? And you're looking at me like, I.

[Pablo Torre]

Think this is a compliment.

[Katie Nolan]

I don't know. He's trying to explain why I don't. Why I can't do that. And I respect that. He. I think he's saying the same.

[Dan Soder]

I think I respect. I respect it too. Being like, I look, I just don't want to do that. Makes me feel weird. Is it. Is that you got blackballed? Like, every. Every part they were like. And this is. And it's smooching.

[Pablo Torre]

Plus quote.

[Katie Nolan]

Is it. He finished all those roles and then said, no more kissing. And they were like by.

[Dan Soder]

I don't remember. I don't know his oeuvre well enough to know how much smoochin he's done on screen.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm scrolling through my library of times. I've seen his face and I don't see anywhere there's parted lips.

[Dan Soder]

Also, I don't think of him as. I think he's too. I guess maybe I'm misunderstanding the definition of a character actor because I think he's kind of too handsome to be a character actor. To me, a character actor is someone who you look at, you're like, how'd he get famous? You know what I mean? But this guy, right away, he's not a character.

[Katie Nolan]

And I could be wrong, but he's went to Harvard.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

Where'd you go? Just so we can. I can know who to appeal to.

[Dan Soder]

New York University.

[Katie Nolan]

Also really good.

[Dan Soder]

Hey, thanks.

[Katie Nolan]

In this situation, I understand picking Harvard.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

I thought a character actor was like a guy who plays a lot of like, small or woman. A guy is gender neutral who Plays a lot of, like, little roles in big things that you've seen that, like, really help the plot, but they don't get a lot of credit.

[Dan Soder]

Sure, sure. But. But you wouldn't say, like, you know, they're. For example, on Sex in the City, there are sometimes an actor who's, like, the hot guy in this episode, and you wouldn't be like, that's a character.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, sure, sure.

[Pablo Torre]

But. So, for instance, Paul Giamatti, killer.

[Dan Soder]

Seymour Hoffman, character actor.

[Pablo Torre]

So this is.

[Dan Soder]

This is part of, I think, Steve Buscemi, character actor.

[Pablo Torre]

So. So when I had Hank Azaria on the show, I was calling him a character actor. Not sure if that was pejorative.

[Dan Soder]

I don't think it's necessary. I don't think some people might take offense.

[Pablo Torre]

But I guess for him, like, he was literally. He's known for different characters and voices, so I think for him, maybe it's different. But the definition of it seems to be an actor known for playing unusual or eccentric or interesting characters in supporting roles rather than leading ones. So it doesn't need to be like, you're on screen for a second, but you're just not the main guy. And you are apparently pretty weird.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, it's like a little bit of a weirdo. Like, this guy's playing, like, the police chief, you know?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, I guess. Well, character actors also kind of like a backhanded way of saying, like, you're also not.

[Katie Nolan]

You're not the famous guy.

[Pablo Torre]

You're not the hottie.

[Katie Nolan]

Not the big famous hottie.

[Dan Soder]

The hot guy's not the character actor. Normally.

[Pablo Torre]

Can hot guys be character actors?

[Katie Nolan]

Probably. Let's think of one.

[Dan Soder]

Left to your face, I'm thinking.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm looking at all the pictures. I'm looking at my brain pictures.

[Pablo Torre]

It's very painful.

[Katie Nolan]

Hot guy repertoire. Looking really hard. Okay.

[Dan Soder]

No, I don't think I could do. I. I don't think I could do.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, but this seems to be.

[Dan Soder]

I don't think I could do smooching either.

[Pablo Torre]

Just because.

[Dan Soder]

I mean, I guess I would do it, but I just seem so.

[Katie Nolan]

Said he would do it. Sorry, that was.

[Dan Soder]

He said he would do it. He said he would do it.

[Katie Nolan]

He said he wants to kiss other people.

[Dan Soder]

I would be so stressed out. The idea of it is just. Is very stressful.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Think it'd be comfortable.

[Katie Nolan]

Whenever I've heard people talk about it, they talk about how valuable having, like, a very comfortable scene partner is that it's like, oh, I depended on that person the entire time because they are do they do this all the time? And for me, I was very freaked out by it.

[Dan Soder]

Even that feels kind of something to me. Right where it's like, that's why we have intim. Joan made. It was that I said, that's why.

[Katie Nolan]

They have intimacy coordinators. But now it's become a cool thing to signal that, like, I didn't even need or want one. I actually told them to take the day off. And you're like, they're. They're.

[Pablo Torre]

I'll coordinate this.

[Katie Nolan]

You're not helping. You're not helping.

[Dan Soder]

But even when they are like, you know, oh, but I was so scared to do it. But then I worked with Sarah, and she made it so easy. It's like, that's also kind of like, wait, it makes. It makes sounds like, oh, we have a special. I'm in love with this woman. It was actually quite easy because I'm in love with her.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, there's also just the larger context, and this is true of all workplaces where, like, people who work together, especially in romantic settings, the performance of romantic. At least they do actually end up dating.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Like, the whole idea. A showmance.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

The whole work wife premise.

[Katie Nolan]

I've met a lot of. Of the people that I've dated at various jobs throughout my life, so I, I. That also probably, I'm realizing, feeds into why I feel this way, where I'm like, if my job were to kiss you and they. Everybody claps. Like, it's like, of course your brain. Your brain would have to be so strong to not go. Like, so we're in love with this person, right?

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, I think so.

[Katie Nolan]

We're performing a relationship now.

[Pablo Torre]

We're podcasting.

[Katie Nolan]

So I. Am I a bad person that I'm like, oh, it would be tough.

[Pablo Torre]

Anyway, the whole point, I think it's almost. I think you're almost virtue signaling.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, no, that's bad, right?

[Dan Soder]

Pure.

[Katie Nolan]

I. I wish. I think what it is, is I'm fascinated by people's ability to go, oh, well, that's acting. It doesn't matter. And I'm like, I wouldn't be able to do that. I just don't think I would be able to.

[Dan Soder]

I understand that it's acting. Like, I. I understand that, but it would still. It would make me uncomfortable if my wife, who was an actress, was like, I'm going to be an actor again. And the first role I'm taking is Smooch City. I'm going to be like, well, it would. I wish you. I wish you would take something else.

[Pablo Torre]

Spin city. Spin off.

[Katie Nolan]

If it's like, is that why you got back into it? So that you could go smooch? I just feel like it would be like if the murder was real, if the murder. If you would go and to a movie set and when you were acting murder, you actually murdered. It's like that you actually kissed.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, right.

[Pablo Torre]

This is like Tom Cruise actually doing his own stunts.

[Dan Soder]

This is, this is so close to you being like, I think Shrek might be real.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. And why not? Has anyone considered Fiona? Probably not.

[Pablo Torre]

But Shrek certainly there's a donkey thing I workshopping over here.

[Katie Nolan]

Let us know when you get it.

[Pablo Torre]

Fall is planting season and I wonder if you knew that many plants and trees actually do better when planted this time of year. But you got to know where to start. And that is why I love fast growing trees.com doesn't matter if you live in the sunny south or if the air is getting chilly. Wherever you are, their plant experts can help you find the perfect fit for your space. And with their alive and thrive guarantee, you can be sure that your plants will arrive happy and healthy. So for instance, I live in New York City and so plants are just a legitimately huge part of what keeps me sane day to day. The parks, yes, are great, but when you get home to your apartment, it can feel otherwise pretty commercial. And so that is why I fill my apartment with plants. And I mean this. I have dozens, dozens of plants in my home with more on the way thanks to fast growing trees. I actually just placed my first order with them and it could not have been more of a breeze. Planting a tree is not that hard, despite what some superstars might have you thinking. And with over 6, 000 plants to choose from that fit any space from indoor plants to fruit trees to full size privacy trees and more, fast growing trees has you covered. They also make it super easy to find what works for you, no matter your experience level. Their website has all the information you need and every plant comes with instructions and tips on how to best care for your new plant. With a full resource center and a growing zone finder and plant experts ready to help you, you will know exactly what will thrive in your backyard. And this fall they have the best deals for your yard. With up to half off on select plants and other deals, Listeners to our show get 15% off their first purchase when using COD PTFO at checkout that is 15% off at fastgrowingtrees.com using the code PTFO at checkout now is the Perfect time to plant. Use PTFO to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. Check out the link below in the show notes and support the show.

[Katie Nolan]

Only.

[Pablo Torre]

Boost Mobile. Boost Mobile. We'll give you a free year of service. Free year when you buy a new 5G phone.

[Dan Soder]

New 5G phone.

[Katie Nolan]

Enough.

[Pablo Torre]

But I'm your hype man.

[Doug Limu]

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[Pablo Torre]

Get $25 off every month for 12 months with credits totaling one year of free service. Tax is extra for the device and service plan. Online only.

[Doug Limu]

Sometimes an identity threat is a ring of professional hackers. And sometimes it's an overworked accountant who forgot to encrypt their connection while sending bank details.

[Katie Nolan]

I need a coffee.

[Doug Limu]

And you need Lifelock. Because your info is in endless places. It only takes one mistake to expose you to identity theft. Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second. If your identity is stolen will fix it. Guaranteed. Or your money back. Save up to 40% your first [e-mail] special offer terms. Apply.

[Pablo Torre]

The work wife as a related concept.

[Dan Soder]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

Which is a thing that is certainly like. Speaking of just like things people are talking about this year. I feel like I've been inundated with like work wife viral Coldplay thing. Yes.

[Katie Nolan]

Yes. You saw that obviously.

[Dan Soder]

Of course.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. I just didn't know. Sometimes I don't know. This one I think got to every single buddy.

[Dan Soder]

Absolutely.

[Katie Nolan]

That exists.

[Pablo Torre]

But just the premise.

[Katie Nolan]

Kind of like Hawk Tua.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, good. We're just gonna be. Let's churning out references.

[Katie Nolan]

I watched a guy watch that on his phone.

[Dan Soder]

Speaking of smooching. Plus, you know what I mean.

[Katie Nolan]

The work wife. You got a work wife, Pablo?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, Rob.

[Dan Soder]

I could see Rob being your work wife.

[Pablo Torre]

Rob's been whispering sweet nothings into my ear this whole podcast.

[Katie Nolan]

That's really sweet.

[Pablo Torre]

He sent me a photo of a guy named Robert. Is it Richard? Richard. I don't know how to pronounce.

[Katie Nolan]

He's doing this.

[Pablo Torre]

He has. He has a. He's an apostrophe between the ri. Apostrophe and the chard. And he looks like that guy that we just talked about. Neil McDonald McDonough.

[Katie Nolan]

We've named too many men. I've lost them in my mind.

[Pablo Torre]

So check this out. Neil McDonough. Yeah, check this out.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, my God. It's a real Jay Z. Troy Aikman.

[Pablo Torre]

We got a Jay Z. Troy Aikman situation with Robert Richard.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, I see it.

[Pablo Torre]

That's what Rob's whispering in my ear.

[Katie Nolan]

Thanks. Rob. That's helpful.

[Pablo Torre]

We've had a side chat about this guy for a while and you guys work.

[Katie Nolan]

Smooch, you said.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, it just feels like emotionally fraught sometimes.

[Katie Nolan]

So he did kiss her, you're saying? No, Dan.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh.

[Dan Soder]

The thing is. Oh.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh.

[Katie Nolan]

So to be so that super cool chick who's incredible at her job and great at singing.

[Dan Soder]

Incredible. Yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

You did mention how this came up.

[Dan Soder]

I think she plays an instrument to.

[Katie Nolan]

The piano in there.

[Dan Soder]

And my God, when you see her play the piano, you will be blown away. I mean, my goodness.

[Pablo Torre]

So you were at the Emmys?

[Dan Soder]

I was at the Emmy.

[Katie Nolan]

Did you win? You won an Emmy?

[Dan Soder]

I did not win an Emmy.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm sorry. Is that the mean if you had one? I would have felt bad if I.

[Dan Soder]

No, that's okay. That's okay. I did not win an Emmy. I wasn't.

[Katie Nolan]

You didn't win a Peabody.

[Dan Soder]

I did.

[Katie Nolan]

Peabody. Peabody.

[Pablo Torre]

God damn it.

[Dan Soder]

I want a Peabody. We heard anyway seen.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I've also seen.

[Katie Nolan]

Because we hang out without cameras.

[Dan Soder]

We did that one time.

[Pablo Torre]

That one time.

[Dan Soder]

That one time we did. Never again probably, but possibly.

[Katie Nolan]

No. Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Even when we do hang out without the cameras, it's almost like this.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

It's like a. Have you seen Pablo takes out his computer?

[Katie Nolan]

What were you saying?

[Dan Soder]

I have no idea.

[Pablo Torre]

You were at the Emmys and you won but didn't.

[Dan Soder]

Well, I didn't win the show that. The show that I work for won.

[Katie Nolan]

That's winning.

[Dan Soder]

That's winning.

[Katie Nolan]

That's winning.

[Dan Soder]

Well, I don't get a statue. The stand, the stat, the producers, etc, get statues. I don't get a statue. But it was pretty fun. It's cool.

[Katie Nolan]

That's sick.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. So that's kind of.

[Katie Nolan]

You were nominated for Severance?

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, I was nominated for smallest role.

[Katie Nolan]

Tiniest little half of least likely to.

[Dan Soder]

Be seen on an episode of a television from a season that was before this year.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay. Yeah, they just. That's new this year. They just started giving that out. Last year's best tiny guy from the show, I think.

[Dan Soder]

Good. This feels good.

[Pablo Torre]

Best actor in a cable news reenactment.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Best actor on a TV show inside of a TV show.

[Katie Nolan]

I don't know. Hold on. There were a lot.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. That probably goes to like Wolf Blitzer in something.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, right.

[Katie Nolan]

Like Sharknado, somebody from Succession. The other s show.

[Dan Soder]

Good with a great show.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. Were you in that?

[Dan Soder]

I'll tell you what. I was in that, but they cut me out. A fun story about that was.

[Katie Nolan]

Wait, you Literally were in.

[Dan Soder]

And I literally was in it. I had.

[Pablo Torre]

I heard this recently when Hamburger was there in your.

[Dan Soder]

I told the story.

[Pablo Torre]

You referenced it. But I was. I was actually curious, like, what happened?

[Dan Soder]

I think it was the pilot. I was in one. I had one line, and I think the line was like, hey, Captain, or something like that.

[Katie Nolan]

Nice.

[Dan Soder]

You know what I mean? One of those. It's one of those things where, like, you know, on the day of. They're like, oh, they just wrote a new. Who. Does anybody know that could do this? I think it's. I think that's how I got that. I get there, and the director gives me a very specific set of instructions. He's like, I want you to. At this exact moment when this thing is happening, that's when I want you to say this line to Jeremy Strong. And then Jeremy Strong is like, hey, I get conflicting ideas from.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, no.

[Dan Soder]

Jeremy Sharp. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe it wasn't Jeremy. Sean. Anyway, I get. I get two different, very specific opposite directions. So I abs. I just.

[Pablo Torre]

So you smooch.

[Dan Soder]

I'm abs. I'm totally in smooch city. I kissed him. So I kissed him. I tried. I tried. I tried to kiss him.

[Katie Nolan]

I tried to.

[Dan Soder]

Plus, I just felt so. I was so anxious about this one line, and I said it. And you'll never see it any place. It's not a line that's necessary.

[Katie Nolan]

What was the line?

[Dan Soder]

He thinks it's the line I'm pretty sure was, hey, Captain, or hi, Captain, or.

[Katie Nolan]

It's got to be so scary when you sense that, like.

[Pablo Torre]

Or you're the captain.

[Katie Nolan]

I have to do this perfect or they're, like, gonna be mad at me.

[Dan Soder]

Yes.

[Katie Nolan]

Like, do it exactly like this. And you're like, it's not. We're not feeling out the scene. I'm here to do this. If I don't do it right.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. I'm effectively a lamp.

[Katie Nolan]

If I screw him up, it's gonna be a big problem.

[Dan Soder]

That's exactly right. And so it's. And it's also one of the first times that I was on a set where it's like, oh, this is, like, really real. It's very real. So just, like, I'm stressed out. I'm getting complete opposite directions. I'm trying to do it right. I'm sure it's almost impossible to do it, like, really badly. I think the other fun thing about doing it that early on is I don't. The other actors in the show didn't know that I Was no one. I don't think so. I'm like in holding with them, just like chilling with all them. And everybody was super nice.

[Katie Nolan]

Cool cast.

[Dan Soder]

That's kind of that story.

[Katie Nolan]

That's really cool.

[Dan Soder]

But I was in succession, even if you can imagine it, less than I was in Severance.

[Katie Nolan]

It's very funny. And I'll just also say they don't only cut stuff that was bad or that they didn't like. They have to cut stuff for time.

[Dan Soder]

You know what? It might have been too good. They might have thought if we show this guy. We gotta do a spin off.

[Katie Nolan]

Exactly.

[Dan Soder]

We're gonna do a hey Captain spinoff.

[Katie Nolan]

Exactly. And he can't steal the show.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. Coming this year to HBO Family.

[Pablo Torre]

Hey Captain.

[Dan Soder]

Hey Captain. The story of an intern at Waystar Royco.

[Katie Nolan]

That's where you started. But wait till you see.

[Dan Soder]

Exactly. Wait till you see he ends up a hobo.

[Pablo Torre]

Katie, what do you know about the thing where Dan smooched when either called.

[Katie Nolan]

It had to be you or it's only you. Or there was always you. It's something.

[Dan Soder]

It's a movie or it's a.

[Katie Nolan]

It's a movie.

[Pablo Torre]

You know what the plot is.

[Katie Nolan]

No, I don't. I don't. And this isn't because I don't love him. It's because I do. It's because I love him so, so much.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. You're ready. And you're about to find out what it's. What? That's.

[Katie Nolan]

And that's fine. I can do the plot. Just please don't actually show me them kissing.

[Pablo Torre]

Is it. It had to be you.

[Dan Soder]

Pablo's trying to engineer a fight between you.

[Pablo Torre]

It had to be you.

[Katie Nolan]

Is that. That's what it's.

[Pablo Torre]

That's what it's called.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

Sonia, a neurotic and charming jingle writer, dreams of having an exciting life.

[Dan Soder]

I wonder if she sings and plays the piano in there too.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh my God. I bet.

[Pablo Torre]

The sudden marriage proposal from her boyfriend.

[Katie Nolan]

And that's him. That's my date.

[Pablo Torre]

Whether she joins the ranks of her married friends or pursue her fantasies.

[Katie Nolan]

Is he not even named like as the character?

[Dan Soder]

Are they. Is he the lead of the movie?

[Katie Nolan]

Sonia, boyfriend.

[Pablo Torre]

A 30 something young woman panics when live in boyfriend. Chris Jensen.

[Katie Nolan]

Is that him?

[Pablo Torre]

Dan Soder.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay, Chris, Jen, let's go.

[Pablo Torre]

Marriage.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Her refusal hurts him and he walks out.

[Dan Soder]

Sorry.

[Katie Nolan]

Been there, done that. Said yes.

[Dan Soder]

So.

[Pablo Torre]

Kristen, Melody. Yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay.

[Dan Soder]

I mean now I feel like I'm gonna watch this movie.

[Pablo Torre]

I think we should. We probably just play It.

[Katie Nolan]

What? No.

[Dan Soder]

It's gonna be the best episode.

[Katie Nolan]

It's not possible.

[Dan Soder]

Are you Detective?

[Katie Nolan]

Did you email about Google? I'll kill you. I'll kill you. Google. Oh, I hate it.

[Pablo Torre]

So her leg is straight across.

[Dan Soder]

Stop it. Pablo.

[Pablo Torre]

What the. They're on a couch just watching tv.

[Katie Nolan]

This is what I do every day. She's playing me.

[Dan Soder]

My job here. She's me. But she can sing.

[Katie Nolan]

This is your. Hey. This is your.

[Dan Soder]

But you can sing too, bro. I've heard you. You can sing.

[Katie Nolan]

I was just kidding. You're so great at what you do. You. You. You should pursue this. Maybe. Maybe.

[Dan Soder]

Chris, why are you getting so worked up about this?

[Katie Nolan]

Because you're just. You're like this with everything. It's like you're. You're okay with everything just being okay.

[Pablo Torre]

Why shouldn't I be?

[Katie Nolan]

Because okay is like. It's. You know, that's like settling for a seven out of ten.

[Dan Soder]

A seven is great.

[Katie Nolan]

A seven is. It's. That's barely passing. If you get. If you get below a 70 on a test, you fail. You only live once, and you should at least try to have everything in your life be a 10.

[Dan Soder]

That's crazy.

[Katie Nolan]

That's not crazy.

[Dan Soder]

Why is that failing?

[Katie Nolan]

I think 65, isn't it? I think you're more than a 10. You do? Of course I do. If they kiss, I swear.

[Dan Soder]

Shield your eyes.

[Katie Nolan]

I'll walk out.

[Dan Soder]

Pablo, Shield your eyes.

[Katie Nolan]

We won't be friends anymore. Pablo.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't know what's about to happen.

[Dan Soder]

Oh.

[Pablo Torre]

Honestly, that was.

[Dan Soder]

This is. This to me is very sweet. The level of actual legitimate anger.

[Pablo Torre]

I was about to throw this cap over Katie's eyes to preserve our friendship. I didn't know what's about to happen in that video.

[Katie Nolan]

I didn't finish watching it.

[Dan Soder]

The control room pressed like a big red button.

[Katie Nolan]

They wouldn't do this to me. They would do this to me. You were about to do that to me. They.

[Dan Soder]

She stands so good.

[Katie Nolan]

Damn.

[Pablo Torre]

Is Dan. Dan's great, baby.

[Dan Soder]

I don't think I've seen him do acting stuff. I know that he does.

[Katie Nolan]

That's what everybody knows him from. I thought. I'm sorry. Why?

[Pablo Torre]

You haven't watched Jim Billions and Billions?

[Katie Nolan]

No, he's great. He's. He's the best.

[Pablo Torre]

That was. That was a high. But by the way, a couple things.

[Katie Nolan]

Number one, stressful. Here's your wife cheating on you. Roll it, boys.

[Pablo Torre]

Katie, I don't think you've learned anything from our conversation about the ins and outs of What? Hollyw is like real Neil McD energy. Blame. Blame my work husband for that.

[Katie Nolan]

I will. I will.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, we blame. We blame him.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna push for a work divorce.

[Pablo Torre]

I will also point out that knowing nothing about this film other than what I've been googling quietly while you guys have been saying words, she does appear to be playing the role of Katie Nolan.

[Katie Nolan]

Does she say yes? Do they get married? Did it have to be each other? She's. I just. The whole point of this was. She's so good in the Penguin. Did you watch it?

[Pablo Torre]

I did not watch.

[Katie Nolan]

Have you seen it?

[Pablo Torre]

The Penguin.

[Katie Nolan]

I think it's okay if you have. It's okay. Get to episode four.

[Dan Soder]

That's where it all happens.

[Katie Nolan]

Unreal. And I don't know. I'm not up on all of the lore of Batman and all of that. And I still. As a standalone show. I mean, there's a lot of great acting in it. She's unreal.

[Dan Soder]

Oh, wow. Okay. I'm gonna check it out.

[Katie Nolan]

And she won. And she gave the cutest little speech. And she sings and she can. I should just. She can have them, right? She's probably, like, married and happy. It's not a yeah. Thing. It's just, you know.

[Pablo Torre]

Do you want to see a scene where they're in bed together?

[Katie Nolan]

No. What? Yes. What has led you to think that yes is the answer?

[Dan Soder]

I heard. I read that she has a secret husband who does. Stand up. I wonder who it is.

[Katie Nolan]

We should look into it. Pablo should find out. I'm gonna. Mark Cuban. I'm just gonna be. And third of all, if you'll see, he truly loves meme the most.

[Doug Limu]

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[Pablo Torre]

Interest charges by Continental consolidating into one.

[Doug Limu]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[Doug Limu]

And Doug Limu and I.

[Pablo Torre]

Always tell you to customize your car.

[Doug Limu]

Insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. But now we want you to feel it. Cue the emu music. Limu.

[Katie Nolan]

Save yourself money today. Increase your wealth. Customize and save.

[Doug Limu]

We say that may have been too much feeling.

[Dan Soder]

Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com.

[Pablo Torre]

Liberty Liberty.

[Katie Nolan]

Liberty.

[Dan Soder]

Liberty Savings Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company Affiliates Excludes Massachusetts.

[Doug Limu]

Sometimes an identity threat is a ring of professional hackers. And sometimes it's an overworked accountant who forgot to encrypt their connection while sending bank details.

[Katie Nolan]

I need a coffee.

[Doug Limu]

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[Pablo Torre]

I'm going to admit to just having googled Dan Soder sex scene.

[Katie Nolan]

What the. After that whole speech about how it really is genuine, he's like. And I. I liked the pain.

[Pablo Torre]

I just need to know.

[Katie Nolan]

Kind of like, I just need to.

[Pablo Torre]

Know if it's out there.

[Katie Nolan]

Scared. I actually was looking for a way to get out of this friendship.

[Dan Soder]

So if I could just find to knowing you.

[Katie Nolan]

How's your family? Who I now know. And I feel genuinely interested in how they. You brought your daughter to the Emmys.

[Dan Soder]

My daughter came with the Emmys.

[Katie Nolan]

She looked great.

[Pablo Torre]

Did she.

[Dan Soder]

She had a really good time.

[Katie Nolan]

She appreciate time. The.

[Dan Soder]

I think she did it. She met a lot of people that I work with, and after pretty much every person that she met, she was like, oh, I think that's my favorite one now.

[Katie Nolan]

I love that because there were a.

[Dan Soder]

Lot of delightful people.

[Katie Nolan]

I love that.

[Dan Soder]

And yeah, she kind of had a really great time. And also, the people at my work are very. They're very willing to center a child. So they really, like, make her feel like a superstar. Yeah. No, you.

[Pablo Torre]

You were mean.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, she's a cool kid. I'd center her.

[Dan Soder]

She had. She had. She had a great time. She recently got braces. That's something that's going on in our house. Did you guys have braces?

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. At a tough time in my life, too. I was not looking my best.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

I was going through a tough.

[Dan Soder]

We're gonna want a picture. We're gonna need a picture of that.

[Katie Nolan]

Let's find that there were. I've reached a point now where I can look at them and not. There was a point in my life I was like, I don't ever show me me in middle school. I was miserable. I was so sad.

[Pablo Torre]

Did you have the haircut?

[Katie Nolan]

I was actually kind of at. But at one point I was growing out. The haircut, which I had already prepared for, was going to be a tough. That's why I was like, let me get this out of the way in middle school before I get to high school. But it's. It was a tough transitional period of haircut where it just. I had a shaggy, long dying for the flat, and I had. And I had these big braces, and I was just. But now I look at that and I see it's the same. I'm in there, you know, it's. It's me. I just was. People weren't very nice to me about what I look like.

[Pablo Torre]

Were there nicknames?

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, I'm sure she's fully crying on today. Is the goal to get me to be upset.

[Dan Soder]

I also. I had braces, and it did not happen at a good. Things were already going so badly for me, and then I got braces. But I thought. I thought I would be fine with the braces. No one will even know that I have them because I'm getting clear braces. And just to be crystal clear on what that means is not invisalign.

[Katie Nolan]

Not crystal clear at all.

[Dan Soder]

It's braces that are, like, you know.

[Pablo Torre]

Vaguely pretending not to be there. It's the Shaquille o' Neal hiding behind a tree of braces.

[Dan Soder]

It looks like your teeth also have teeth. It's not cute in any way. So I had. I had acne. That was absolutely crushing the game.

[Katie Nolan]

Did you get on acting?

[Dan Soder]

No, I did not.

[Katie Nolan]

Good. That's good.

[Dan Soder]

And I had braces, and I had straight up bubonic eczema. I mean, I had eczema just all over the place. So I was kind of. I was.

[Katie Nolan]

You were going through it.

[Dan Soder]

I was really going through it.

[Katie Nolan]

You were molting. Yes, you were molting. You were becoming the beautiful butterfly you are today.

[Dan Soder]

Once those braces came off and the acne went away and the eczema was still there, I was a king of the pharmaceutical Dupixent, baby.

[Katie Nolan]

I call it Skyrizi every time.

[Dan Soder]

No, it's Dupixent. Give me that sponsorship. Whoever. Whoever you are, doctor, do give it to me.

[Katie Nolan]

You wouldn't do a pharmaceutical sponsor for Dupixent.

[Dan Soder]

I absolutely.

[Katie Nolan]

Because you do use it. Yeah, yeah, maybe.

[Dan Soder]

But I would absolutely do it. I would. I would shoot Dupixent into. I would. I would have. I would come in here like pinhead. You know that pinhead from Hellraiser?

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

With the Dupixent. I love. I love it.

[Katie Nolan]

Wait, I have a can. I want to. Can you table the Serena Williams row conversation?

[Pablo Torre]

Serena Williams row.

[Dan Soder]

Because she's doing the oic.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

She's doing. We go.

[Pablo Torre]

Is the Think we go. Is the GLP one of choice, Row?

[Katie Nolan]

No, Row is the company that she gets it through. It's like, you can also use row. I believe it used to be called Roman, but then they started appealing to women as well. They dropped, man, and it just became Ro.

[Pablo Torre]

Kims is a thing.

[Katie Nolan]

Yes. And you can get.

[Pablo Torre]

Provided we don't have them as a sponsor.

[Katie Nolan]

In this episode, when he said hymns, it's like you. Allows you to connect with a doctor, and they'll give you a prescription without ever having to. It's like that kind of telemedicine that became a thing during COVID From necessity. Born from necessity.

[Dan Soder]

Yes.

[Katie Nolan]

And now I think they're, like, trying to figure out how to regulate it or whatever. She did ads for Row. Her husband sits on the board.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just read it.

[Katie Nolan]

In the ads for Row, she's just pushing the actual product, which made me go like, that's interesting, because it's not. She's not being paid by the pharmaceutical company to push the product. She's being paid by the company that gives it to you. But yet the headlines were all like, serena Williams confesses that she too uses GLP1s. And it just seemed like such a very complex, layered story that you love those. So I wanted to drop that in your lap. Pablo should find out about that, because that was tough. I mean, seeing an athlete. Nobody. Everybody's got body stuff. Body stuff is hard to talk about.

[Dan Soder]

Not me. Cannot relate.

[Katie Nolan]

I didn't mean to laugh right away. Everybody has body stuff, and we're. It's like every. I hate talking about it because I don't like the thought of making somebody at home feel any type of way about their own body. But that was weird to me because.

[Pablo Torre]

She is the paragon of female athleticism and.

[Katie Nolan]

And it. And she said that even she need. She just needed to use it to get the last. The last 15 off. And I don't know. I looked into the medicine of the stuff. It's actually very interesting. They're. They're like, currently trying the medicine that was originally used as like a diabetes medicine, and then they approved it for weight loss, and now it's being approved for a lot of other uses. They're actually looking into using it to treat addiction because of its ability to target whatever it is that's causing that. And so in that way, I'm like, this medicine really might be, like, game changing, life changing, like, can help people that really need it in all types of ways. I just don't know why? The thought of the woman that speaking about it being Serena Williams makes me go like, well, that she isn't one of the. And I don't want to, but. And then you're like, you don't want to tell anybody what to do with their own body.

[Pablo Torre]

This is interesting. I mean, because really what you're describing is your reaction not to her decision, but to the presumed pressure that she must have felt to want to make that decision.

[Katie Nolan]

Yes. And also the. The pressure that might. Somebody else might feel once to her. She's saying that she wants to destigmatize it by coming out and saying, like, even I needed it. But in the articles about this, since it's not on behalf of that company, it's on behalf of Roe, they're using language that suggests shame. So they're saying, like, Serena Williams comes clean about using GLP1s, and in the article, she's saying that she wants to destigmatize it.

[Pablo Torre]

We're seeing Serena Williams goes public. We're seeing Williams opens up, Admits opens up.

[Katie Nolan]

And it's. These are all.

[Pablo Torre]

Finally opens up, reveals all things that.

[Katie Nolan]

Suggest there should be shame involved while she's saying she's trying to remove shame.

[Pablo Torre]

Serena Williams shocked fans.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

With her new slim selfie.

[Dan Soder]

But I do think there is shame. Like, people, the. Everyone in Hollywood is like, oh, the £400 I lost. I mean, I've just been walking a lot. It's like, no, you haven't. We. We know that you've been on these drugs. So there is actual shame around using it. Everyone's pretending they're not using it, but when suddenly everyone lost 20 pounds at the exact same time, you are like, huh, this diet is either incredible or you're all on these drugs. And they all are. And to me, I'm not saying that. I'm not arguing against anything you've said.

[Katie Nolan]

No, put them up.

[Dan Soder]

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. GLP it away, bro.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm fist up.

[Katie Nolan]

No, put your dukes up, please.

[Dan Soder]

I think you should do. Do it. Wegovy. The other one. Ozempic.

[Katie Nolan]

Ozempic.

[Pablo Torre]

There's a bunch Pixin it do picks in.

[Dan Soder]

It do. Pixen doesn't do this particular thing.

[Katie Nolan]

I' agree with you. I think anyone should do anything that they want.

[Pablo Torre]

That is also my house position.

[Katie Nolan]

Right. I think what my issue is is that I understand the mentality of her doing it from her standpoint, but I'm watching it in execution, and it's not destigmatizing, it's actually reinforcing. The shame that's associated with it by saying that she's coming clean about it. And if she's not destigmatizing it, then what she is doing is. I don't know, it's. It's scary to me. I think of being a little girl who everybody goes through a time where they're like learning their body and how their body carries weight and how their body handles exercise and responds to certain. Whatever it is. And they're going, serena Williams needs it. I need it. I'm gonna get on it right away. When really that person might not have needed it. Maybe that person just needed to. And then. Because then I think now that's a lifetime with a pharmaceutical company. And that to me goes. Gets really risky, like pushing that on. I don't know. People look up to Serena win. So it's very complex. And again, I want to be clear. Like, I don't. If you use it, I don't judge or anything.

[Pablo Torre]

We're gonna clip this very unforgivingly. And so you will get in trouble. You know what I'm saying? Outside of that totally nuanced discussion.

[Katie Nolan]

But it is interesting. But like her.

[Pablo Torre]

Her truly profiting off of this as a spokesperson for the broker of GLP1, I think that does change the premise. It's not simply she believes in a product and has said that she uses it. It's the act of selling and promoting via some membrane of separation between the actual product, the. The drug and.

[Katie Nolan]

How does that sound to you? What does that do in your brain? Because you were just talking about how you would gladly do a dupixent. You would be paid by dupixent because you use dupixent. So I'm wondering.

[Dan Soder]

I would. I would drink a bucket of wegovy. I thought. What I have heard is that I have heard that it can give you.

[Pablo Torre]

I would drink out the bucket, drink a beer snake.

[Dan Soder]

Do you know those. Do you know those hats that you have with the upside down things on the straws going into your mouth? You could load that. You could do a wovi in this one and an Ozempic in that one and I would slurp that. I guess to me, I don't have any. I'm distrustful of pharmaceuticals companies and their motives all the time. I. That's maybe a dangerous thing to say. I don't know of anyone who's been on these things that has suffered a, like, long term side effects. But that could just be like a. Yet.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, exactly.

[Dan Soder]

You could be on McGovia or Ozempic and die from a disease that no one's even heard of yet because it's a. Because it's a wegovy side effect that we haven't tracked. But I know people who have taken it, and me too, had incredibly bad gastro issues in the. In the, like, you know, whatever, the maintenance phase or whatever. Gotten, like, diarrhea for real. You know what I'm saying?

[Pablo Torre]

That's what it says on the box. Diarrheal for real in italics.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. May cause diarrhea. And then a little FRFR is the sound the diarrhea makes. So I. I'm not. What I'm saying is I have no judge of people who take it, which I don't think you're saying either.

[Katie Nolan]

No, no.

[Pablo Torre]

And if, by the way, it does seem to be as drugs that have been debuted in a dystopian era, as those go, this seems to be wildly effective based on early returns.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

With all of the caveats that we're all pointing out of, like, who knows what unintended consequences both sociologically and pharmaceutically.

[Dan Soder]

The other thing that will happen, if that's already happening, is you will. Some people can afford this, some people can't. So in many ways, how, like, you know, just general health is a marker of your economic status. Like this. It'll be clear once everybody's on this, like who. There's going to be a right, a very visible line between who can afford it and who can't.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. All of this. You slurping GLP ones.

[Dan Soder]

Hashtag me slurp.

[Pablo Torre]

Hashtag me slurp. Reminds me there's no other way to think of that. Well, there's.

[Katie Nolan]

There's one other way.

[Pablo Torre]

There's one other way I want to think about it, and it's the video I want to show Katie.

[Katie Nolan]

No. God damn.

[Dan Soder]

God.

[Katie Nolan]

I jokingly pointed at the tv, but.

[Dan Soder]

This is your fault.

[Katie Nolan]

I jokingly no, because he also did the kiss. I said I would be willing to do this so as not to see the kiss.

[Pablo Torre]

I can't understand.

[Dan Soder]

Can't you not show this?

[Katie Nolan]

You know what? I pivoted. I love this clip. Keep showing me this clip.

[Dan Soder]

Put me.

[Katie Nolan]

Show me where he puts the. In his mouth. I want to see it right now.

[Dan Soder]

Edit us.

[Katie Nolan]

Come on.

[Dan Soder]

Edit me into this clip is what I want.

[Katie Nolan]

Make it me who's doing it. Make it me who's doing this. I actually would love that.

[Dan Soder]

I think you shouldn't say that. The Internet is.

[Katie Nolan]

I love the way he rubs his face in It. Okay. I'm loving this. Oh, good. Run it back from the beginning.

[Dan Soder]

I. I have tried to put me on board with this bit, and I am. I can't do it. I can't be here for it. How long does he do this for? What did he win?

[Katie Nolan]

Unless they just cleaned that tub. You are. You've got old hair in your mouth.

[Dan Soder]

I don't think we watched this much of it before.

[Katie Nolan]

I don't think we did either. I think I got them to turn.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. This is unbelievable.

[Pablo Torre]

We've rarely gotten this deep into the clip.

[Dan Soder]

This.

[Katie Nolan]

Unbelievable.

[Dan Soder]

Has either of you seen this movie? Has either of you has either?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

You know what I just realized? He kind of looks like Walker Bueller. You know Walker Bueller, the pitcher?

[Dan Soder]

I don't.

[Katie Nolan]

He. I did.

[Pablo Torre]

Los Angeles Dodger Walker Bueller.

[Katie Nolan]

No, he was. And then he was on the Red Sox and he stunk, and now I think he's on the Phillies. Philadelphia Phillies pitcher. Walker Bueller kind of gave up on baseball.

[Dan Soder]

Tbh.

[Katie Nolan]

Well, it's back. It's back in a big way.

[Dan Soder]

You know, I love Sh. Otani. That's. That's. That's.

[Katie Nolan]

He just.

[Dan Soder]

50. 50.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. Well, a new 50. 50.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Thank you for reminding people we're a sports podcast.

[Katie Nolan]

Sports. They happen. Watch.

[Dan Soder]

Hashtag me slurp.

[Katie Nolan]

Well, they might not happen. I feel like you're ending the NBA. Can I be honest? I feel like we're not gonna have an NBA anymore. I feel like it's just done.

[Pablo Torre]

Our investigation continues.

[Katie Nolan]

I know. And I'm, like, kind of half understanding it.

[Pablo Torre]

Can we. Can we end with a palate cleanser?

[Dan Soder]

What does that.

[Katie Nolan]

No, because that's before it got bad, you guys. That's when she was still just the.

[Dan Soder]

Come on, look at her.

[Pablo Torre]

Look at this.

[Dan Soder]

Look at that hair.

[Pablo Torre]

Young Katie Nolan.

[Dan Soder]

This is before. This is before.

[Katie Nolan]

That's in second grade. That was the day I got. That was probably, like one of the first days I had that haircut. That was the first day my mom was like, this is what we're gonna do with you.

[Pablo Torre]

You're wearing a necklace.

[Katie Nolan]

Over my turtle.

[Pablo Torre]

Over a dark green, forest green turtleneck.

[Dan Soder]

Framingham. Where are you from?

[Katie Nolan]

Framingham, Massachusetts.

[Pablo Torre]

Look at that look. Look at that hair, the bangs, the Machio esque.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, it is. Imagine a second grader walking into the salon being like, I want what he has. And it's a picture of Jarmir Yaga.

[Pablo Torre]

If you could tell. If you could tell. Young Katie Jarmir Jagger Nolan.

[Dan Soder]

I want the Mario Lemieux. Please.

[Katie Nolan]

If I could tell her. What?

[Pablo Torre]

That everything that came out of your mouth in the last five minutes would come out of that mouth as an adult. I don't know.

[Katie Nolan]

What?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, that was gross. We're gonna probably. I'll just end the episode.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm talking to a kid. Pablo. What the.

[Pablo Torre]

This has been Pablo Torre Finds out a Meadowlark Media Production and I'll talk to you next time.

[Doug Limu]

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[Katie Nolan]

What do you think makes the perfect snack?

[Doug Limu]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[Katie Nolan]

Could you be more specific?

[Doug Limu]

When it's cray venient.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay.

[Doug Limu]

Like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at am, pm. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at a.m. pM.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Doug Limu]

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.

[Katie Nolan]

Crave, which is anything from am, pm.

[Doug Limu]

What more could you want? Stop by AMPM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience. Am PM Too much. Good stuff. Limu Amo and Doug Limu and I.

[Pablo Torre]

Always tell you to customize your car.

[Doug Limu]

Insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. But now we want you to feel.

[Katie Nolan]

Feel it.

[Doug Limu]

Cue the emu music. Limu.

[Katie Nolan]

Save yourself money today. Increase your wealth. Customize and save.

[Doug Limu]

We say that may have been too much feeling.

[Dan Soder]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty.

[Katie Nolan]

Liberty.

[Dan Soder]

Liberty Savings. Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.