Share & Tell-ichick (Super Bowl Edition) with Mina Kimes and Dan Le Batard

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Share & Tell-ichick (Super Bowl Edition)"

Podcast: Pablo Torre Finds Out
Host: Pablo Torre (The Athletic)
Guests: Mina Kimes, Dan Le Batard
Date: January 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This lively "Share & Tell" Super Bowl Edition episode brings together Pablo Torre, Mina Kimes, and Dan Le Batard for an in-depth, often irreverent, exploration of three intersecting sports storylines: the embrace and pitfalls of “bad weather” football, the saga of Bill Belichick’s Hall of Fame candidacy and the secrecy (and drama) of that voting process, and Tom Brady’s evolution in the broadcast booth. Woven throughout are themes of internet dunking, accountability, and how sports media—and its personalities—are shaped by public perception, criticism, and vindication.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth and Misery of "Football Weather"

(00:18 - 02:28)

• Mina Kimes: Blasts the false bravado around loving football in terrible weather and coins the term “Birchew Signaling.”
  • Quote: “People who pretend like snow football in terrible conditions is enjoyable are completely full of it... It’s not about the toughness of the fans. It’s about the enjoyability of the game.” (00:18)
• Consensus: Both Mina and Dan dismiss the idea that bad weather equals superior or more “authentic” football, arguing it degrades both the game and the viewing experience.
• Pablo Torre: Jokes about the pro-warm-weather coalition between Miami and LA, lampooning the forced nostalgia for snow games.

2. Internet Dunking, Taking L's, and Mina's Seahawks Take

(02:28 - 07:07)

• Mina revisits her infamous “Geno Smith vs. Sam Darnold” Seahawks take:
  • She admits she was swiftly proven wrong after being critical of Geno Smith’s trade and predicting regret.
  • Highlights the internet’s relentless recycling of her “bad take” and the futility of public accountability.
  • Quote: “Taking the L is never going to be enough for most people. You get nothing out of being proven right and only get people cake joy when you’re proven wrong.” (06:47)
• Dan Le Batard: Expresses disbelief that Mina’s reasonable opinions could be polarizing, criticizing the internet’s habit of targeting personalities.
• Meta Moment: Mina and Pablo compare their Twitter (now X) usage, joking about who tweets more and the legacy of their online presence.
  • Pablo: “Does it feel good to discover that I’ve tweeted 68,000 times? The answer, friends: God damn it.” (08:01)

3. The Belichick Hall of Fame Drama & The “Belichick 11”

(08:01 - 25:30)

• Parallel to Dan’s BBWAA story:
  • Dan tells his story of “selling” his Hall of Fame ballot to Deadspin as a protest against morality policing in HOF voting (“look at me narcissism of enjoying the circus,” 09:07).
  • Draws direct lines between his baseball HOF experience and Bill Belichick’s current football snub.
• The Search for the Belichick 11:
  • Mina, Pablo, and Dan discuss the furor over 11 voters not selecting Belichick as a Hall of Fame lock.
  • Pablo details the ongoing investigation and public pressure, with voters now breaking tradition to prove they did vote for Belichick.
  • Mina (on fear of bullying): “People are coming forward because they don’t want to be bullied... The remainders are shrinking and shrinking. This is so fascinating.” (19:19)
• Process Peculiarities:
  • Voters have multiple motivations: some may have strategically withheld votes, others genuinely withheld support, and a few cite procedural or personal rationales.
  • Pablo exposes a web of secrecy and transparency, quoting abstaining voters and examining the “process over personality” argument.
• Higher-level Reflection:
  • Comparison of sports “gatekeepers’” standards (morals vs. merit) and the effect of media/karmic narratives on legacy.
  • Dan: “Is it supposed to be merit or morals?... Obviously Bill Belichick is a Hall of Famer, but... would there be any merit to the idea that Belichick somehow cheated his way to more glory?” (13:16)

4. Bill Polian, Robert Kraft, and Hall of Fame Pettiness

(14:12 - 22:58)

• Conflicted Voting: Pablo and Mina analyze conflict-of-interest arguments surrounding Robert Kraft's campaign and how it affects the Belichick vote.
• Polian’s Fuzzy Memory: Examining the reliability and significance of HOF voting stories (e.g., Polian can't recall his own vote with certainty), with Pablo wryly noting, “I always find it funny when someone doesn’t remember something, especially something that just happened...” (14:54)
• Conspiracy and Pettiness:
  • The guests speculate on possible high-level maneuvering (Kraft avoiding sharing a big moment with Belichick, Jerry Jones blocking Kraft). Mina doubts that level of pettiness is productive, but acknowledges how rumors fuel “the dunk tank.”

5. Accountability, Public Vindication, and "Dunk Tank" Culture

Thread throughout

• Internet, Social, and Sports Media Dynamics: The cycle of celebrating takedowns, the futility of public apologies, and fear of being on the wrong side of the crowd (“dunked on”).
• Pablo: “Everything we’ve talked about is the story of people who have been successful being brought down and... establish that all along we are as good as we think we are. That’s Mina. That’s Belichick. That’s Tom Brady.” (35:06)

6. Tom Brady’s Broadcasting Journey

(26:27 - 34:39)

• Dan’s Initial Doubts: At the start, Brady was “distractingly bad” on TV (“he was getting in the way of my enjoyment of the telecast... not merely just being boring and bland, but by being bad,” 28:26).
• Brady Improves: Tom’s infectious enthusiasm and visible enjoyment are key to his improvement, echoing the greatness of “enthusiasm-forward” announcers (Gruden, Madden).
• Team Dynamics: Both Mina and Dan praise how chemistry and genuine friendship between play-by-play and color commentators elevates the experience.
  • Mina: “People like it when the play-by-play guy and the color guy seem to genuinely like each other... A game is a hang, and you want to feel like you’re in the company of actual friends.” (33:04)
• Brady’s Self-Awareness: Citing recent interviews, Pablo frames Brady’s learning curve—the difficulty isn't knowing football, but knowing how to share it in real time, and credits Kevin Burkhart for helping Brady thrive.
• Dan holds out: “...I would like to see a little more of a sample size from him to see if he’s going to continue to get better. Almost all of the people who do this with reps do end up getting better.” (34:39)

7. The Circle of Internet & Media Critique

(35:06 - end)

• Meta-Reflection: Pablo notes the underlying similarity in all discussed stories—whether it’s Mina’s takes, the Belichick scandal, or Brady in the booth: “the story of people who have been successful being brought down and figuring out how... we are as good as we think.”
• Dan’s Early Broadcasting: The episode closes on a playful tone, with an old clip of young Dan Le Batard and friendly ribbing about how Brady is now being praised for the very same “Wow, what a play” style.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Birchew Signaling:
  “It’s the same people who love bragging about how they live in the Northeast and they wear shorts in the winter... The games in weather mostly suck.” – Mina Kimes (00:18)

• The Nature of Internet Dunking:
  “Taking the L is never going to be enough for most people... You only get people cake joy when you’re proven wrong.” – Mina Kimes (06:47)

• On HOF Voting Transparency:
  “People are coming forward because they don’t want to be bullied... it’s not a prisoner’s dilemma, but essentially, the Belichick dilemma.” – Mina Kimes (18:52)

• On Hall of Fame Pettiness:
  “The Streisand effect is pretty serious, my guy, because if you get in, and Bill doesn’t, it’s all anyone’s gonna be talking about.” – Mina Kimes (22:58)

• On Improvement in Broadcasting:
  “There are two ways to be great at that job.... Or you could just have great enthusiasm for football.... And Tom Brady merely does this, ‘Oh my God,’—he’s great at broadcasting because all he’s got to do is match the enthusiasm of the customer.” – Dan Le Batard (29:06)

• On Broadcasting Chemistry:
  “A game is a hang, and you want to feel like you’re in the company of actual friends.” – Mina Kimes (33:04)

• Meta-Summary:
  “Everything we’ve talked about is the story of people who have been successful being brought down and figuring out how could we then establish that all along we are as good as we think we are.” – Pablo Torre (35:06)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Birchew Signaling & Football Weather: 00:18 – 02:28
• Mina’s Seahawks Take & Internet Lifting: 02:28 – 07:07
• Pablo and Mina’s Tweet Battles: 07:07 – 08:01
• Le Batard HOF Vote Story: 08:38 – 10:23
• Belichick HOF Drama, The Belichick 11: 10:23 – 25:30
• Kraft, Polian, & HOF Pettiness: 14:12 – 22:58
• Tom Brady's Broadcasting Evolution: 26:27 – 34:39
• Meta-Reflection & Dan's Early TV: 35:06 – End

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Final Thoughts

Rich in playful banter and sharp critique, this episode deconstructs sports mythology and modern media, revealing the recurring dynamics of success, schadenfreude, and self-justification—both for sports legends and for the journalists who cover them. At its core, it spotlights how the court of public opinion, institutional processes, and old-fashioned rivalry all shape reputations in sports and beyond.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

[B]

No, don't do this. Transparency.

[A]

Sunlight is the only disinfectant right after this ad.

[C]

Take that. I am going to stand 10 toes down on that. People who pretend like snow football in terrible conditions is enjoyable are completely full of it. Liars. Liars. In fact, I came up with a word for it. Birchew Signaling. It's the same people who love bragging about how they live in the Northeast and they wear shorts in the winter and you're so soft on the West Coast. It's not about the toughness of the fans. It's about the enjoyability of the game. The games in weather mostly suck. You can have some great moments, no doubt, but. But there's no. No chance people actually enjoyed watching that. Second half lies.

[A]

This is all just Mina clearly still trying to justify moving to la.

[B]

She's also right, though. The idea that that is football weather and all you're doing is getting in the way.

[A]

I'm sorry. Miami and LA agree on how warm weather is better than that is the point.

[C]

Pamela, tell us one thing that happened in the second half of the game. One thing that was like a play.

[A]

It was super. It was super memorable. The time that Drake may, like, ran in the snow and bootlegged, that was awesome. I'm going to remember that forever. Forever.

[C]

Going to remember that forever.

[A]

Yep. The snow, what a play. The white, what a moment. Be very memorable.

[B]

The point of the whole thing is to find out who's best with a metric of some sort other than the scoreboard that measures merit. And we're going to just make the second half something where people can't play successful football, where there's no one who can play successful football. That's stupid.

[C]

I also keep hearing that, like, oh, the game was bad before the turn. Jared Stidham threw a bomb down. Like, at least things were happening. I understand that, you know, it wasn't the best football. It wasn't comparable to what we saw at night, but the second half of that game was unwatchable.

[B]

So anyways, the whole thing was unwatchable. The whole thing compared to the late game where you have 17 storylines, an inch on 17 different decisions would have made the Rams the team that's representing the. The. The best conference in the best game.

[A]

Is one of those storylines. How mean of Kimes is not being allowed by the Internet to celebrate the Seattle Seahawks? Is that one of the takes that Dan was referring to?

[C]

We want to start with this one.

[A]

I mean, we're here. We're already arguing about. About who gets to. Yeah, Take pride in football.

[C]

Set the table.

[A]

You're the host. This was last year. This was the off season. Gino Smith, right.

[C]

Right after he was traded.

[A]

They throw Geno Smith out a window. Mina, Seattle Seahawks. And Mina tweets something along the lines of, this is a decision that we, the Seattle Seahawks, and their fans, will regret. And that has been resurfaced all over my feed, at least because that's not.

[C]

What I actually posted.

[A]

Okay, well, what did you. What did you say?

[C]

Flat out, I think this is a mistake. Chances of upgrading are low.

[A]

That is basically what I said.

[B]

She. No, well, she used fewer words, did it more efficiently and more accurately.

[C]

That was sharing my opinion, not as a fan, but, like, as my football opinion on it.

[A]

Point being that Sam Darnold took you guys to the super bowl, so eat it. That is what people are telling me.

[C]

That's just not true. I gave a take right when the Seahawks traded Geno Smith, where I was critical of it and very critical of it. This is before they signed Sam Darnold. But I was like, this is a mistake. Very unlikely. They're going to upgrade. And that take, which was proven wrong very quickly, Darnold was really good in the first half of the season, but it was more that Geno was so bad with the Raiders. Right. And it happened very quickly. So I took the L on this, I think in week five is when I posted, yeah, that was wrong. And I went on Bill's show and talked about it was wrong.

[A]

And.

[C]

And the take kind of simmered down and it's come back to haunt me because the old takes guy, like, reposts it because he knows it's great business for him. The night that Sam was great against Washington, which is a horrible defense, and then this last game in which he was legitimately excellent, which is, you know, I was clearly wrong. Like, they did upgrade. Now, for the second half of the entire season, Sam Darnold was not good. And I think people, like, didn't watch those games, apparently, the way people are talking now. But it doesn't matter. In the biggest game, when it mattered the most, he was the engine of their victory.

[B]

I don't understand why Mina. And this makes me so naive. I know in today's America, where we have so many people fighting over race and gender and DEI and everything else, I don't understand how Mina's football opinions or her personality can be taken as any kind of polarizing. Given how solid and obvious her. Her information is, how prepared she obviously is. I'm at a true.

[A]

I'm at a Dan's D. Worse, Dan's doing the thing where he makes it worse for me and by defending her. Oh, no. It's a classic Dan move.

[C]

I don't want to, like, single myself out here. I think generally right now, like, everybody loves dunking on the Internet. So, like, old takes is a thing. Right. Me having a bad opinion and getting roasted for it over and over and over is just kind of how social media works right now. Maybe because it's me. There's like certain level of response that there definitely is a different reaction from others.

[A]

People want to see Mina Kimes take.

[C]

An L. The thing that you have to realize, though, is like, and this is something I struggle with, taking the L is never going to be enough for most people. Right. Like, so the actual take was like, about Geno, not about Sam Tarl.

[A]

Really? Yes. The take was, we're going to miss Geno Smith.

[C]

Geno Smith. Yeah. And Geno really regressed the season. Part because of his declining abilities, I believe in. Also large part because the Raiders were an absolute train wreck. And I don't think anybody would have had success there. Not to make an excuse for my take. Obviously it was the right decision for Seattle. I was wrong. But I was talking to Bill Simmons, like, I went on his show in like week six and was like, damn, that was wrong. It was after a Geno game. But when confronted with the ducking again, you know, people were like, you haven't acknowledged it. And it's like, oh, right. You can never actually make people happy or satisfy it.

[A]

Here's the real question which speaks to exactly the dynamic in Mina Kimes brain, which is of course, fully supportive of the Seattle Seahawks making the Super Bowl. Is there a part of your brain where if Sam Darnold has the worst game of his life, there's going to be a part of your neurological heat map that's going to light up and be like, not the worst thing for old Mena Kimes. No, for Sam Darnold to suck ass.

[C]

Here's what I've learned about the Internet. You get nothing out of being proven right and only get people cake joy when you're proven wrong.

[A]

All of which explains, of course, that Mina knows the reality of Twitter and that is why she has tweeted 37,700 times.

[C]

How many times have you tweeted?

[A]

I'm afraid to look.

[C]

Yeah, for you can't Just throw mine out without. Show me. Show me yours.

[A]

I don't want to do that now that I. That cannot be right. This cannot possibly be right.

[B]

Tell us 68,000. 68,000. That's twice. That's twice. That's twice what you achieved.

[C]

That's more than yes.

[A]

In my defense, that was, like, a lot in that first decade. And it was ironic. Can I say that? It was all ironic.

[B]

You can't defend this. You can't have twice as many.

[A]

I was parodying people who tweeted a lot by tweeting. I think that was.

[B]

What a. What a great. Gotcha, Mina. Good job by you. Twice as many tweets as you while trying to shame you for how much you've tweeted. Unbelievable.

[A]

This does not feel good, if that's what you're asking. Does it feel good to discover that I've tweeted 68,000 times? The answer, Friends. God damn it. God damn it. Jeez. Can we talk about Bill Belichick now? Can we talk about the thing that was the thing that also got people very mad? Can we do that? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I thought all of that was super interesting. As somebody who has lost his hall of Fame vote in baseball, lost is.

[A]

A very generous verb for what happened with your vote.

[B]

Dan, what is your take?

[A]

Is that you, in a flagrant but very funny stunt, dared the hall of Fame to take your vote away and they did.

[B]

That's not exactly how that happened.

[A]

Tell the story.

[C]

I don't. Tell the story.

[A]

Yeah, tell the story.

[C]

I vaguely remember.

[B]

Okay, so I am bothered by the fact that the morality gatekeepers of the hall of Fame aren't letting Barry Bonds and the best baseball players I've ever seen get into the hall of Fame because they're treating it as a moral epicenter instead of a museum. And so I, quote, unquote, sell my vote to Deadspin and allow their readers to pick my hall of Fame ballot, and they pick a really good one. And I would have had a decision to make if they'd picked a really bad one, but they picked a good one. And so I let the whole stunt go on. And then, of course, the hall of Fame took my vote. But the entire reasoning behind doing it, beyond the look at me narcissism of enjoying the circus and the pageantry of nonsense, was very much to object to the idea that I didn't like baseball writers, my brethren, using that kind of sanctimony to lock the gates on excellence. And it's the same sort of thing that has Happened here to Bill Belichick where they are embarrassing him. He's getting a phone call that is stunning him. I would love to see his reaction to that in real time as he's learning like the rest of us, the shocking news that the most obvious of first ballot hall of Famers doesn't get to be a first ballot hall of Famer because the morality police have arrested him.

[A]

So the BBWAA in 2014 said about Dan, quote, the BBWA regards Hall of Fame voting as the ultimate privilege, and any abuse of that privilege is unacceptable and they have removed you. That was 2014. This story, by the way, Mina, like me, Jordan Hudson, Donald Trump, who has truth socialed about this, Mike Lombardi, who have also investigated on the show. We all share the same opinion, which is that Bill Belichick should be in the hall of Fame, and it's insane that he isn't. And the thing that made me laugh, though, was that, okay, that is obviously the correct take, but in a sense, this is also the best thing that could have happened to Bill Belichick. Mm.

[C]

Great spin zone. Yeah. Everybody's now just talking about how good he is again.

[A]

We're all like, it's now a brave take to say Bill Belichick's the greatest football coach of all time, arguably that he's won all these Super Bowls.

[C]

Well, it's not. I mean, literally everybody agrees, but the whole point is I was now the underdog. Anybody gonna take the opposite side like I was? I saw one person, Greg Doyle, the.

[A]

Columnist Greg with three GS.

[C]

No, but I agree with you. I. I do think it's been really valuable for him because, yeah, everybody's rising to his defense. Everybody agrees. This is crazy. I think the actual mechanics of how it went down, which are still up in the air, are really interesting though.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So for those who don't know, Mike Sando posted about this and I thought this was really illuminating. He's one of the voters. He voted for Belichick, by the way. That whole thing too. Now everybody's trying to sniff out. We can talk about that.

[A]

The Belichick 11.

[C]

Yeah. Ali Godley, who's guy comes to my podcast sometimes, who's great has been posting like a spreadsheet of all the votes.

[A]

We've been making calls here as well, like to add to Ali's tabulation, I will say as a sneak preview, Dan Fouts confirmed that he voted for Belichick by giving us a thumbs up on the text message we sent him. So our investigation is also continuing.

[C]

Have you got. Have you found a no yet?

[A]

No, we've. We've had abstentions because it's against the rules. The rules that Dan Lebatar doesn't respect.

[C]

That's what I think the no's are all going to say, though. This is like traitors. It's just like Traitors, which is a show that I'm recapping. Okay. But Sando says something interesting. So this is like the senior vote, right? To. For Belichick to get in, which is limited to. You get. I think three people get in. So Sandow hypothesized that since they don't talk about their votes and you have to pick three, that it's possible some of the Belichick no votes were people who thought he was such a lock that they could spend their votes on getting some of those guys in who they wanted.

[B]

So 11 voters did that, though. You think it's possible that 11 did that?

[C]

No, I'm sure some of them just hate his ass.

[B]

Yeah. So what's it supposed to be, though? Is it supposed to be merit or morals? Like. I know. So we're all in agreement. There were a couple of takes this week that were pretty universal and that I didn't hear something on the other side this one. And does Shedeur Sanders belong in the Pro Bowl? Like, it's just an easy opinion to have that Shador Sanders doesn't belong in the Pro Bowl. And it's an easy opinion to have that obviously Bill Belichick as a Hall of Famer, but you guys believe that? Because cheating's pretty egregious. And I don't know football the way Mina does. But Mina also doesn't know football the way Bill Polian does. And so when Bill Polian maybe has more information about how much success Bill Belichick had because he was cheating, would there be any merit to the idea that Bill Belichick somehow cheated his way to more glory than he deserved? Or it's just petty nonsense.

[A]

I want to introduce Napoleon.

[C]

Napoleon thing is fascinating. You should. Yeah, please.

[A]

Napoleon dimension. He's 83 years old. He has given quotes about what he did or did not do as a voter. Don Van Natta and Seth Rickisham broke this story, by the way. Credit to them. Don Van Natta called Napoleon in the reporting and asked him, did you vote for Belichick? And he said he couldn't remember. And I'm just like. And elsewhere, he had said that he had voted for Belichick. I think so, anyway. On that level alone, like concerning, if not dispositive of what he may or may not.

[B]

But he remembered that he voted for Robert Kraft. Like he remembered 100% certainty that he voted for Robert Kraft and didn't remember with 100 certainty whether he voted for Belichick.

[A]

And I always find it funny when someone doesn't remember something, especially something that just happened, let alone stuff that is like pretty memorable, instead of saying yes or no, I just think I don't remember is a very legal go to when you don't want to say what you really did. Yeah. In this case, though, the Kraft thing that Dan mentions is also pretty instructive because Robert Kraft and Vanette had also reported this previously, had been campaigning to get into the hall of Fame and is in the same class, is one of the candidates who get voted on alongside Belichick in a way that has seemingly made a conflict of interest, especially for Bill Polian, who definitely supports Robert.

[C]

Kraft unambiguously, which also just like spare me the idea that Robert Kraft deserves even an iota of the credit that Bill Belichick and Tom Brady we could parse out. You know, I think history has shown Brady probably deserves more, but undeniably Belichick deserves a lot of it. But give me a break.

[B]

Well, the, the idea that Kraft is getting in before Belichick is obviously, it's idiotic. But if I were to go back like six or seven years with you guys and say, look, let's stand next to Bill Belichick where he is in the world right now, and let's tell him that all of the following is going to happen. Tom Brady's gonna immediately win a Super bowl without him going through Rogers and Mahomes and Drew Brees to do so. There's gonna be a 10 part docu series that Robert Kraft is gonna manipulate in order to shame you into the national perception we didn't have before, you're not actually as responsible for everything that happened there as people think you are. You're going to start dating a 20 year old and bonus, one of your linebackers is gonna do the same team thing with your organization and take them to the super bowl that you did, rendering what you did less meaningful because one of your linebackers can do it.

[A]

I mean, it is exactly why this is the greatest thing to happen to Bill Belichick. The narrative on Belichick. For all those reasons, no one has lost the, the polycule divorce of Kraft, Brady and Belichick more than Belichick. And now there is this movement to find the Belichick, 11.

[C]

Doesn't this connect to what I was saying earlier about, like, the desire of the Internet to just find people to dunk on?

[A]

Right.

[C]

I'm not saying that here.

[A]

Here are some people that you can't dunk on because they said, yes, they voted for. Ballot check. Dan Fouts, Ira Kaufman, Bucks beat writer. Jeff Legwald, Broncos beat writer Paul Domowich, Eagles beat writer Matt Myoko, Niners beat writer. Give us a thumbs up. Mark Craig, Vikings beat writer. Calvin Watkins, Cowboys beat writer. Also another thumbs up. A bunch of people have not responded as we are recording this now.

[B]

I just love. I love.

[C]

I love more than that. Right. I saw a spreadsheet.

[A]

Those are the new additions to what Ollie Connolly has tabulated. We're trying to, like, fill in.

[C]

This is a lot.

[A]

Yeah, we're filling in the spreadsheet.

[C]

So between yours and Ollie's, how many people are left?

[A]

We got. Here we go.

[C]

Like, how many names are uncounted for between the names that Ali put out and the ones you just said?

[A]

12, 13, 14, 15, 16. We have 15. And we have an eye on the 16th, Tony Dungy. Oh, wow.

[C]

Okay. So you and ali together have 35.

[A]

Ali had 17. Exactly. And so we're getting.

[B]

But Mina, here's the thing about this Mina, though. While you say wow, and I understand why you say wow, let's examine for a moment what's just happened here.

[A]

Journalism.

[B]

35 people have run forward with the totally obvious opinion, proudly, ta da. Yes, I voted for Belichick, and the others are in complete hiding. And Pablo's not going to be able to find them, because, of course, it's the easiest thing in the world to vote for Bill Belichick and to find the people who voted for Bill Belichick, because they want to now be seen, because they never thought their vote for Bill Belichick could possibly be wanted by anybody. Because it's the most obvious thing in the world.

[C]

They're all defending themselves. Right. Because what you've got here, there's got to be some name for this. Kind of like, it's not a prisoner's dilemma, but, like, essentially, the Belichick dilemma.

[B]

Is what it's going to be named.

[C]

Nobody's supposed to reveal their votes.

[A]

Correct.

[C]

But the people here are so afraid of being the odd men out that they're willing to buck tradition to come forward, thus throwing the no voters under the bus. And I mean, I don't mean to malign them. God knows I would do the same thing. So I just want to be. But let's be clear about what's happening here. People are coming forward because they don't want to be bullied.

[B]

It's so good.

[C]

And then the remainders are shrinking and shrinking. This is so fascinating.

[A]

You may even then, using the powers of reality television logic, deduce that there might be some liars potentially. But. But the people who won't tell us their vote might be the most suspicious of all, ironically. Right. And so I'm looking at you, Jeff Duncan, who wouldn't tell us his vote. New Orleans Saints beat writer or Scott Garo, the Ravens, Jerry D. Writer. Darren G. Don't do this. Darren G. Covering the Panthers, NBC Sports.

[B]

No, don't do this. Transparency, unfair.

[A]

Sunlight is the only disinfectant.

[C]

I would lie to you. Who's going to expose this?

[A]

I know that's a thing somewhere.

[C]

It's not like, like state secrets. It's not like something we're like, lying now.

[A]

You know, it is now, by the way, I love that, like, Armando Salguero, a fellow South Floridian, Dan, a guy you've known for a very long time, is like, he's like, I was the one who suggested Bellich. And here is the. Here's the wedding to post. I gave him. And here's.

[C]

He did his. Yeah, somebody has to present the case.

[A]

And he. And by the way, like, apparently confidentiality around, none of this matters anymore if you're in favor of Belichick, because he was like, here's the speech I gave. Here's the thing that Brady sent me to read to everybody that didn't convince the Belichick 11.

[C]

There is a strong connective fiber between these two stories, though, right?

[A]

Avoiding the dunk tank. People are terrified of being like, oh, no. And by the way, in fairness, you alluded this before. Like, you know, what Darren Gantt was saying to us while he was avoiding disclosing his vote was that, like, this is a process thing, too. I'll quote him. This is far more of a process story than a personality story in terms of, like, how rigorous or rather how restrictive the voting structure is now, where people were like, ah, I shouldn't vote for Belichicks. I want to get this other guy in there this year. And they might disappear if we don't get him in. Now here's some other things, though. Some other just breadcrumbs to throw into the recipe here because what someone else pointed out to us is that here's the list of stuff that was thrown into the discussion against Belichick. There was Spygate, of course. That was the thing that was most famously reported, that we got to get accountability for Spygate. The other thing, I guess we should also acknowledge that, yeah, there's the whole, like, he didn't win without Brady argument, which seems just farcical in totality for all the football reasons that we've acknowledged. But the third thing that I didn't realize was in the discussion that apparently, according to people, one of the voters who were in the room on this zoom call said was it's possible that Belichick could come back as a coach and they didn't want to vote him in if it's possible that he might still be in the NFL. And that, to me, is funny. Just as a matter of Belichick is absolutely desperate to get back in the league and no one will let him back in. And that might also be the reason, according to at least one voter, that they would like to not vote on him right now. So that's also apparently in the discussion.

[B]

When presented with something this kind of absurd. Right. One of the fun things with conspiracy theories is going and finding whatever the reason might be for something that doesn't seem to have very much reason. And you can find any number of them. But, Mina, would you buy the idea that Jerry Jones is reportedly, according to Don Van Nada, keeping Bob Kraft or has tried to keep Bob Kraft out of the hall of Fame? Would you believe the idea that Bob Kraft, Swift. Would not want Bill Belichick to be part of his big weekend and would keep him or try to influence folks to make sure that he could remain that small? You wouldn't buy that kind of pettiness if that's true.

[C]

And I don't know Kraft and the state of that. I know I've read all Don and Seth's excellent reporting about the dissolution relationship. The Streisand effect is pretty serious, my guy, because if you get in and Bill does is all anyone's gonna be talking about. Right? So I don't think. I would imagine he recognizes that on some level. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it would be very smart on his part if he wants this to go over well.

[B]

If I may, Pablo, can I suggest to the hall of Fame voters who. And the people who run the hall of Fame, if you've got this many voters who have come forth and broken the rule of not making their vote known as public, you might want to take away their vote for breaking the rules the way that my vote was taken away for breaking the rules? Because you're supposed to follow the rules. Well, no, but these are the gatekeepers who are telling Bill Belichick that he's also got to follow the rules or he's not allowed in the hall of Fame. So if the rule makers want to follow their own rules, they might want to ban some people for getting in front of everybody and being like, I voted for him when it's supposed to be secret.

[A]

So I just gotta jump in here with a quick update because the Pro Football hall of Fame did in fact threaten, in a rare statement, that it could remove voters who violated their bylaws. But not only that, the hall of Fame also decided, perhaps paradoxically, to correct Bill Polian's elusive memory forum, declaring that the 83 year old former Colts general manager didn't even speak during the discussion about Belichick and his candidacy. And that, according to the hall of Fame's independent auditing firm, Polian did actually vote for Belichick. Meanwhile, a columnist for the Kansas City Star, Vahy Gregorian, finally texted us back in our ongoing quest to hunt down the Belichick 11. And he wrote, quote, sorry for a delayed response, wanted to write about it so I could explain vote as best as possible. And what Gregorian wrote about in a column was why he voted no, explaining that he did not vote against Belichick or Craft. He voted for three other candidates who had been, quote, snubbed for decades. But this story apparently does not stop there. Guys, I have a late breaking update. Jason Whitlock has just added a photograph of me to a corkboard he's created on the Internet in a conspiracy to destroy Bill Belichick.

[B]

I mean, you belong up there. That's good work. Out of Whitbach.

[A]

I'm part of the Kraft family syndicate now. This is hard for me to discover. God damn.

[C]

Who else is on there?

[A]

Robert Kraft, Bill Polian, Tony Dungy, me, Mike Florio, and then a ranch.

[B]

You got to get off the Internet, Pablo. You're tweeting too much and you got to get off the Internet.

[A]

I regret. I regret all of this.

[B]

You're sitting there on the Internet while we're doing the show. You're just perusing. Where are people talking about me?

[C]

Have you been refreshing Twitter as we've been talking this whole time?

[A]

At least he used a good photo. He did use a pretty good photo of me. Should we talk about the other take that we wanted to throw in the faces of various people, which is Tom Brady, as we continue the. The them. The through line of this episode?

[C]

Yes, by the way, this. Yes. The through line of nobody cares when you're correct. Only people care when you're wrong. Dan came in over the top last year texting us. Tom Brady's bad about this. I was right. You guys were wrong. Nary a peep from all Lebitar this season as Tom Brady has built some support and received accolades for his performance. Would you care to apologize to us, Dan? His one personality trait that we know of is competitive freak.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

That dude is hearing all of this. And by the way, like I did, you know, when he took. Took a second right, he didn't jump right into the booth. Again, knowing what we know about him, he's probably been doing an insane amount of preparation. Like, he's not. Like. The criticism of Romo now is that he's maybe not as prepared as he was initially. These are all the leaked stories we're seeing. That's not gonna be the case with Tom Brady based on everything we know about him.

[B]

But, Mina, I would say to you, as someone who has done that, I would say to you, as someone who has a lot of information at her disposal, you know how fast all that moves. You can prepare for that. Tom Brady, I'm sure, will have a lot of things to say and not enough time to say them because you are not prepared for how quickly all of that moves. When you've got 700 sheets of paper in front of you and you need to know who. Who the backup nickel package is on the left side, you know who's. Who's in too deep coverage this time. You need to know every. I don't think people understand that Al Michaels every week for 17 times a year or however long it is, that the burden that is Al Michaels at his age, just learning every player on the roster because you need to know who recovered that fumble as opposed to.

[C]

The NFL when he had three seconds to identify on the field and get off like a perfect pass. What are we talking about here?

[A]

I just want to say I would.

[B]

Not care to and I will not apologize to you. He has indeed gotten better because he's good at getting better. And he couldn't have been much worse. It was this season, earlier this season, that I legitimately thought and said that he was distractingly bad. Like he was getting in the way of my enjoyment of the telecast by not merely just being boring and bland, but by being bad. What I will give you, though, is that he was great on the call and far exceeded my expectations on Ram Seahawks. And it made me realize something that I Had not considered. There are two ways to be great at that job. You can be at the trough that everyone else is at and then just be legitimately better than everyone with your information and your stories and your wisdom and your perspective. Or you could just have great enthusiasm for football. Gruden did it that way, Madden did it that way. The best announcers that there have been, Romo did it that way. At the beginning they were enthusiastic about football. So when I'm on my couch and Matthew Stafford breaks a tackle to make a fourth down gain on a run and I am more surprised than if my coffee table had gotten up and run those three yards because I can't believe Matthew Stafford can do this with 17 years in his of NFL football. And Tom Brady merely does this. Oh my God, he's great at broadcasting because all he's got to do is match the enthusiasm of the customer and it's not that hard. And he figured out how to do it. He figured out how to be human in one of the best games I've ever seen. That felt like the Super Bowl. Before the Super Bowl.

[C]

I think you hit on something that is definitely true there and underappreciated by those of us who are like drilling down into the details. Did he get situational football right? Was his analysis of this coverage, did he predict whatever is that the vibe, the enthusiasm, the joy is the most important thing. You gotta know the game, you gotta know the players, you gotta get them right or whatnot. But overwhelmingly, when I talk to fans about games and football coverage in general, they respond well to passion. And so I think that's absolutely right. I think that is definitely one way in which Brady has been good this year is like he's, you can tell he enjoys watching the games. And I know Collinsworth, it can be divisive. But I think he shares this as well, is like, you know, you also get the sense that he's like excited by watching these young quarterbacks and he's excited when players play well. That's fun to watch. It's fun to be a part of. I think that people are responding to that.

[A]

So Brady's not giving interviews like a victory lap on this season to throw it in Dan's face and into Bugiambi's face. He's given an interview to the Athletic and he basically said a couple of things that made sense to me that also speak to what you guys are discerning, which is that number one, Tom Brady went into his rookie season trying to say way too much. And I empathize with that. Anybody who's tried to do television knows, like, you start off trying to say a lot of stuff, to be, like, smart and persuasive and prepared, and then you realize, oh, my God, I didn't have any time to say the things that I had memorized, and you look like an idiot. One of the quotes here was that it's a lot easier to start something than it is to finish something in terms of just speaking in public. And that is absolutely true. The second thing that it was mentioned was that he loves Kevin Burkhart in a way that, yeah, is clearly real enough to be transmitted through the screen. Speaking of Bob Kraft and Belichick, Brady said this about Kevin Burkhart. Quote, I value Kevin as much as anybody I've ever worked with. And this goes on and on.

[C]

Just like Julian Edelman Dagger.

[A]

True.

[B]

Oh, because he was vulnerable. No, but when's Tom Brady. When's the last time he was terrible at anything? Like, you've got someone there holding your hand. A professional broadcaster, as you do the reps, is sitting there putting his hand on your knee and helping you.

[C]

Burkhardt is so good at setting him up. And if you pay attention to, like, the mechanics of these things and you really listen to the way he talks about plays and asks him questions, it is masterful. He's a great and, like, I think really talented, but, like, the work he's done to help Brady get to this level is masterful. Not surprising that Tom Brady, who's like the consummate teammate, say what you will about the dude beloved, recognizes that he has a really good one. But I also think that that dynamic, too, is something that's underappreciated, that people respond to. Is like, people like it when the play by play guy and the color guy seem to genuinely like each other.

[A]

Yeah, like a buddy cop thing.

[C]

Yeah. It's one of the things I love most about Buck and Aikman, who I. I think are just the gold standard company woman, whatever. But, like, there's a lot of times during the game where you can feel them, like, chuckling to each other and there's, like, references to things they've seen in the past or remarking with, like, amazement at something the other person has said. It's a hang. Like a game is a hang, and you want to feel like you're in the company of actual friends. And I think. I think Brady and Burkhart are starting to create that vibe.

[B]

It's an underrated thing, though, that I don't think People know very much about sports television. Tony and Mike or wherever it is that you find chemistry pairings. Yeah. The people need to love each other in order for there to be people dissolving, laughing in front of cameras in pressurized moments just because they enjoy each other's company and their friends hanging out. Like the shared joy elements of chemistry have been humanizing for the robot of Tom because it's. You see the entire enthusiasm for sport. You see the love story of him having a connection with a partner who is helping him. And it has to be a long time since Tom Brady doubted the way that he had to doubt. Am I good at this? When the gas bags of the world like me are saying, man, he's terrible, it's distracting how terrible he is.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, he was in the dunk tank in a real way, in a way that resonated with his vulnerability. And I think all of us have felt a version of that. I will say though, Mina, that Dan didn't eat the L. He just sort of like, yeah, said a bunch of stuff and then refused to do it.

[C]

Where's the accountability?

[B]

No, I'd like to see a little more of a sample size from him to see if he's going to continue to get better. Because while he has gotten better, almost all of the people who do this with reps do end up getting better.

[A]

I've realized that despite talking about three seemingly very disparate topics, they're all the same topic. Everything we've talked about is the story of people who have been successful being brought down and figuring out how could we then establish that all along we are as good as we think we are. That is Mina. That is Bill Belichick. That is Tom Brady. And by the way, and by the way, because Dan is calling for sample size in terms of like, how much better can you get at this? It's also probably worth us seeing this. The Miami Herald High School Sports Show. Today's show is brought to you by Health South Office Depot.

[C]

Love the special effects here, the mirroring.

[A]

I love rattan check, powerade, and sound advice. Good morning and welcome to another edition of the Herald High School Sports Show.

[B]

I'm Dan Lebatar. Killian and Southridge have two of the top baseball teams in Dade, but when we featured them a few weeks ago.

[A]

It was no contest test as Killian pinned a 7 nothing defeat on the Spartans.

[B]

However, this week, Southridge was looking for.

[A]

Some revenge as the two teams met again in a District 16 rematch. Now, in softball, the Douglas Eagles have one of Broward's top teams.

[C]

This is fine.

[A]

Oh, the little smile. For those who are not watching on YouTube, you've missed the smile of a Dan Lebatard at. How old. How old was that smile?

[C]

Yeah, how old are you there?

[B]

I'm in my very early twenties. It's legitimately my first television appearance was that show. And till my brother's dying day, he will make fun of me because we taped on Wednesdays, but the games were on Friday. So I'm taping before the games are played. And so this is what my brother would do when impersonating me.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

What a play.

[C]

I personally always enjoy clips of young Dan, which we rarely get to see because whenever I watch them, I just imagined it's what would have been like if AJ Soprano had done sports.

[A]

Hold on, hold on. Dan going, wow, what a play. This all. What I found out today is that Dan resents Tom Brady because Tom Brady is literally doing what young Dan Lebatard used to do and being praised for it.

[B]

Yes. Yes. It's just secretly jealousy.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Wow. Why are you so jealous of Tom Brady?

[A]

What a play.

[B]

Wow. What a play.

[C]

Amazing.

[B]

Two days from now.

[A]

Pablo Torre finds out is produced by Walter Averoma, Maxwell Carney, Ryan Cortez, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, neely Loman, Rob McRae, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor and Chris Tubanello. Our studio engineering is by RG Systems, Our sound design by Andrew Burcic and ngw Post digital strategy by Bailey Carlin and Andrew Northern. And our theme song, as always, by John Bravo. We'll talk to.