Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: Share & Tell with John Skipper and David Samson (or: Rich Guys OnlyFans)

Date: October 27, 2023

Host: Pablo Torre
Guests: John Skipper (former ESPN President, Meadowlark Media Co-founder), David Samson (former President, Miami Marlins)

Episode Overview

This episode brings Pablo together with John Skipper and David Samson—his regular co-hosts on “The Sporting Class”—for a wide-ranging “Share & Tell” session. Blending irreverent humor and unfiltered business insight, they candidly discuss:

• The behind-the-scenes of mega sports media deals (NBA rights, ESPN finances, tech money in sports)
• The fragility and failures of modern news consumption and media misinformation
• The phenomenon of America’s aging leadership and cultural tastes (the “gerontocracy”)
• Personal reflections on trust, news, and what it means to “find out” in a noisy, uncertain world

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Inside the “Rich Guys OnlyFans”: The Sporting Class Vibe

• Cold brew, CBD drinks, and behind-the-scenes banter

  • John Skipper is ribbed for his CBD drink habit (“Vibes with a Y”), which he admits doesn’t really work:

    “Oddly enough, it has no effect as anything with CBD I've ever ingested or rubbed. The pertinent substance is THC, not CBD.”
    — John Skipper, [01:05]

• The ‘Open Kimono’ Philosophy:

  • Pablo frames the podcast as a rare, raw look into the mentality and calculus of high-level sports executives.
  • David and John riff on their dynamic as “capitalist” (Samson) vs. “capitalist socialist” (Skipper).

• Notable quips:

  • “On another level, it’s sort of like rich guy OnlyFans.”
    — Pablo Torre, [01:36]

2. How Sports Media Mega-Deals Get Done—And What’s Changing

a) NBA Rights Fees: Art, Ego, and Economics

• Are NBA media rights really worth triple in the streaming era?

  • Pablo tees up the skepticism swirling around the NBA’s hopes to triple its TV deal, despite cable’s decline and “uncertain tech money.”

  • John Skipper, who originally negotiated ESPN’s 9-year, ~$1.36B/yr NBA deal, gives his philosophy:

    “I just believe the NBA rights are worth $1 more than what anyone else will pay for them.”
    — John Skipper, [07:27]

  • David challenges this instinctual approach, pushing comps and financial discipline.

  • Skipper clarifies there’s always ROI analysis, but in the end, “there’s no intrinsic value except what someone else will pay—like buying a house or a Rothko painting.” [09:17]

• The Incremental ‘Last Year’ Pay Bump Illusion

  • Samson points out everyone (players, leagues) negotiates off the last year’s salary, not average annual value.

• Network Bidding Drama

  • Industry reports claim ESPN/TNT won’t pay $2.6B/yr for NBA rights—John Skipper calls this posturing:

    “If you told ESPN and Turner they could get the NBA for $2.6 billion, they’d be running for it.”
    — John Skipper, [12:57]

  • Leverage comes from having multiple bidders (Amazon, Apple), not from cable incumbents’ posturing.

b) Inside ESPN’s Once-Hidden Finances

• Disney begins releasing ESPN financials—because they need cash

  • Samson speculates Disney is prepping a sale/partnership amid debt and lagging stock prices, forcing ESPN’s numbers into the open to bidders and leagues:

    “They did it for reasons we can tell you—they want to sell ESPN. They need to raise cash.”
    — David Samson, [15:07]

  • Skipper admits the secrecy was always to avoid leagues/distributors asking for more money, and even other Disney divisions knowing ESPN’s true profits.

    “They didn’t want the leagues to see those numbers because they’d have asked for more money.”
    — John Skipper, [19:42]

• How Big Was ESPN?

  • At its peak, ESPN was more profitable than the combined Disney studio and theme parks.

    “ESPN was a bigger, more profitable company than the studio and the parks put together.”
    — John Skipper, [20:29]

3. The Future of Sports TV: Ratings, Tech, and Negotiation Tactics

• Do ratings even matter in TV rights negotiations?

  • Both Skipper and Samson agree that linear ratings affect advertising but barely influence rights talks—which are about distribution fees and status, not audience size.

    “Those don’t change a cent based on ratings. They’re going to get paid $10-something billion if nobody watches.”
    — John Skipper, [22:31]

  • Negotiations are about priorities, not logic or persuasion:

    “The first thing, I always ask in any rights meeting, was ‘tell me what matters to you.’”
    — John Skipper, [23:54]

• Tech Giants & Skepticism:

  • Pablo raises Ethan Strauss’s argument: why would Amazon/Apple, who “think more like David Samson,” start overpaying for declining linear audiences?
  • Samson and Skipper both dispute that pure logic rules—ego, scarcity, and marketing value mean there’s always someone who’ll pay a premium.

4. Share & Tell: Personal News, Media Mistrust, and Information Chaos

• David’s Dilemma: Where Do You Get Your News During Crisis?

  • As a Jewish American, David admits feeling “jarred to my foundation” by misinformation and struggles to find sources he trusts—especially after The New York Times’ high-profile error in reporting the Gaza hospital bombing.

  • “What’s bothering me greatly is I’m losing my sources... Bad information in is bad information out.”
    — David Samson, [27:38]

  • Pablo and Skipper highlight the challenges of distinguishing fact from opinion, especially as news is flattened onto social media (mostly Twitter/X), blurring lines between reputable outlets and “aggregators.”

• John Skipper’s Critique of News on Twitter:

  • Skipper questions the premise of getting news from Twitter, likening it to “getting my news from the 7-11.”

    “You are part of the problem. Of course you’re getting your news from Twitter. Why the hell are you getting your news from Twitter?”
    — John Skipper, [30:11]

  • Acknowledges social platforms’ immunity under Section 230, making them “not responsible” for misinformation, and thus removing accountability found in conventional media.

  • David: “I’m not blaming Twitter… I’m blaming myself and the fact I rely on the New York Times as a source of information, and I expect them to go through this practice of vetting.” [33:50]

• The Persistent Need for Journalistic Process

  • Pablo: “The only way forward is newsroom standards, fact checking, and editing—saving that process, even if results are sometimes wrong.” [35:20]
  • Skipper defends the Times’ general credibility, but notes: “Everybody has a predisposed point of view… To believe only the truth and nothing but the truth is possible in journalism is not realistic.” [36:37]
  • Pablo, on modern media’s grand promise vs. messy reality:

    “Their sales pitch is so grand—it’s ‘we deliver the truth.’ And that itself is a false advertisement.”
    — Pablo Torre, [36:52]

5. America’s Gerontocracy: Aging Leadership, Shifting Cultural Tastes

• Why Are Our Leaders So Old (and Staying That Way)?

  • John Skipper discusses a Washington Post story: Americans in power are older than ever—due in part to longer lifespans and “refusing to give up power and status.” [43:39]
  • Pablo details how top-grossing actors (by audience poll) are overwhelmingly male and in their late 50s/60s.
  • Skipper notes the lack of older women in the public sphere and pop culture.

• Should There Be Mandatory Retirement for Politicians?

  • Skipper: “It does matter that the people running our country are too old… I think there should be mandatory retirement ages.” [45:06]
  • Samson: “Wait a minute—they’re elected!” [44:42]
  • Skipper: “We aren’t turning to them—they’re refusing to go away.” [44:39]

• On Power, Ego, and Succession (Meta/Studio In-Joke):

  • The segment ends with jokes about assigned seat labels (“mid guest”) and who’s blocking whom in career advancement.

6. Final Takeaways & Memorable Quotes

a) What Did You Find Out?

• David Samson:

  • “The retirement and the hierarchy and the ego is definitely making me examine my future.” [47:30]

• John Skipper:

  • “What I found out today is that David Samson, a very, very bright man, is busy getting his news from Twitter. It just feels wrong.” [47:44]
  • Imitates a “jamoke” (knucklehead) at 7-11 getting news and a lottery ticket:

    “Can I get a pack of cigarettes, a scratch-off, and tell me what’s happening with the Speaker?” [48:16]

• Pablo Torre:

  • “What I found out is that deep inside this kimono, next to these two older rich men… there is a lot of room for love, no question.” [48:59]

Notable Quotes (With Timestamps and Attribution)

• “I just believe the NBA rights are worth $1 more than what anyone else will pay for them.”
  — John Skipper, [07:27]

• “The only way forward... is newsroom standards, fact-checking, and editing—saving that process, even if results are sometimes wrong.”
  — Pablo Torre, [35:20]

• “You are part of the problem. Of course you’re getting your news from Twitter. Why the hell are you getting your news from Twitter?”
  — John Skipper, [30:11]

• “I'm blaming myself and the fact I rely on the New York Times as a source of information, and I expect them to go through this practice of vetting.”
  — David Samson, [33:50]

• "It does matter that the people running our country are too old. I think there should be mandatory retirement ages."
  — John Skipper, [45:06]

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | [00:55] | Opening banter: cold brew & CBD drinks—setting the in-the-room vibe | | [04:12] | Origins of The Sporting Class – “rich guy OnlyFans” and ethos of “open kimonos” | | [07:27] | John Skipper explains his NBA rights negotiation philosophy | | [10:12] | Inside ESPN’s NBA deal details, what those numbers really mean | | [15:07] | Disney’s motives in releasing ESPN financials: sale or partnership? | | [20:29] | ESPN’s profit magnitude vs. Disney Studios/Parks | | [22:31] | Do ratings matter in media rights deals? (Short answer: Not really) | | [27:38] | David’s struggle with news consumption, trust, and the New York Times’ Gaza reporting | | [30:11] | John Skipper’s “7-11” analogy for Twitter news | | [36:52] | Pablo on media’s “false advertising” of truth and the challenge of delivering it | | [42:48] | America’s cultural gerontocracy—age of top stars and politicians, gender and age bias | | [45:06] | Should there be a mandatory retirement age for leaders? | | [47:44] | “What did you find out?” — final takeaways, banter, and show wind-down |

Tone & Style

The episode is conversational, snarky, and deeply candid—punctuated by clever barbs, self-awareness, and historical references. The chemistry among Pablo, John, and David creates a free-flowing, laughter-tinged but substantive dialogue on weighty topics, always circling back to the idea of “finding out” in an unpredictable sports and information world.

For listeners new to the show, this episode is a prime example of how business journalism, media criticism, personal reflection, and humor collide—offering a rare look into the decision-making, anxieties, and motives of sports and media power brokers, with no shortage of self-deprecation or quotable lines.