Share & Tell with John Skipper and David Samson (or: Rich Guys OnlyFans)

Summary

Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: Share & Tell with John Skipper and David Samson (or: Rich Guys OnlyFans)

Date: October 27, 2023

Host: Pablo Torre
Guests: John Skipper (former ESPN President, Meadowlark Media Co-founder), David Samson (former President, Miami Marlins)

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Episode Overview

This episode brings Pablo together with John Skipper and David Samson—his regular co-hosts on “The Sporting Class”—for a wide-ranging “Share & Tell” session. Blending irreverent humor and unfiltered business insight, they candidly discuss:

• The behind-the-scenes of mega sports media deals (NBA rights, ESPN finances, tech money in sports)
• The fragility and failures of modern news consumption and media misinformation
• The phenomenon of America’s aging leadership and cultural tastes (the “gerontocracy”)
• Personal reflections on trust, news, and what it means to “find out” in a noisy, uncertain world

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

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1. Inside the “Rich Guys OnlyFans”: The Sporting Class Vibe

• Cold brew, CBD drinks, and behind-the-scenes banter

  • John Skipper is ribbed for his CBD drink habit (“Vibes with a Y”), which he admits doesn’t really work:

    “Oddly enough, it has no effect as anything with CBD I've ever ingested or rubbed. The pertinent substance is THC, not CBD.”
    — John Skipper, [01:05]

• The ‘Open Kimono’ Philosophy:

  • Pablo frames the podcast as a rare, raw look into the mentality and calculus of high-level sports executives.
  • David and John riff on their dynamic as “capitalist” (Samson) vs. “capitalist socialist” (Skipper).

• Notable quips:

  • “On another level, it’s sort of like rich guy OnlyFans.”
    — Pablo Torre, [01:36]

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2. How Sports Media Mega-Deals Get Done—And What’s Changing

a) NBA Rights Fees: Art, Ego, and Economics

• Are NBA media rights really worth triple in the streaming era?

  • Pablo tees up the skepticism swirling around the NBA’s hopes to triple its TV deal, despite cable’s decline and “uncertain tech money.”

  • John Skipper, who originally negotiated ESPN’s 9-year, ~$1.36B/yr NBA deal, gives his philosophy:

    “I just believe the NBA rights are worth $1 more than what anyone else will pay for them.”
    — John Skipper, [07:27]

  • David challenges this instinctual approach, pushing comps and financial discipline.

  • Skipper clarifies there’s always ROI analysis, but in the end, “there’s no intrinsic value except what someone else will pay—like buying a house or a Rothko painting.” [09:17]

• The Incremental ‘Last Year’ Pay Bump Illusion

  • Samson points out everyone (players, leagues) negotiates off the last year’s salary, not average annual value.

• Network Bidding Drama

  • Industry reports claim ESPN/TNT won’t pay $2.6B/yr for NBA rights—John Skipper calls this posturing:

    “If you told ESPN and Turner they could get the NBA for $2.6 billion, they’d be running for it.”
    — John Skipper, [12:57]

  • Leverage comes from having multiple bidders (Amazon, Apple), not from cable incumbents’ posturing.

b) Inside ESPN’s Once-Hidden Finances

• Disney begins releasing ESPN financials—because they need cash

  • Samson speculates Disney is prepping a sale/partnership amid debt and lagging stock prices, forcing ESPN’s numbers into the open to bidders and leagues:

    “They did it for reasons we can tell you—they want to sell ESPN. They need to raise cash.”
    — David Samson, [15:07]

  • Skipper admits the secrecy was always to avoid leagues/distributors asking for more money, and even other Disney divisions knowing ESPN’s true profits.

    “They didn’t want the leagues to see those numbers because they’d have asked for more money.”
    — John Skipper, [19:42]

• How Big Was ESPN?

  • At its peak, ESPN was more profitable than the combined Disney studio and theme parks.

    “ESPN was a bigger, more profitable company than the studio and the parks put together.”
    — John Skipper, [20:29]

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3. The Future of Sports TV: Ratings, Tech, and Negotiation Tactics

• Do ratings even matter in TV rights negotiations?

  • Both Skipper and Samson agree that linear ratings affect advertising but barely influence rights talks—which are about distribution fees and status, not audience size.

    “Those don’t change a cent based on ratings. They’re going to get paid $10-something billion if nobody watches.”
    — John Skipper, [22:31]

  • Negotiations are about priorities, not logic or persuasion:

    “The first thing, I always ask in any rights meeting, was ‘tell me what matters to you.’”
    — John Skipper, [23:54]

• Tech Giants & Skepticism:

  • Pablo raises Ethan Strauss’s argument: why would Amazon/Apple, who “think more like David Samson,” start overpaying for declining linear audiences?
  • Samson and Skipper both dispute that pure logic rules—ego, scarcity, and marketing value mean there’s always someone who’ll pay a premium.

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4. Share & Tell: Personal News, Media Mistrust, and Information Chaos

• David’s Dilemma: Where Do You Get Your News During Crisis?

  • As a Jewish American, David admits feeling “jarred to my foundation” by misinformation and struggles to find sources he trusts—especially after The New York Times’ high-profile error in reporting the Gaza hospital bombing.

  • “What’s bothering me greatly is I’m losing my sources... Bad information in is bad information out.”
    — David Samson, [27:38]

  • Pablo and Skipper highlight the challenges of distinguishing fact from opinion, especially as news is flattened onto social media (mostly Twitter/X), blurring lines between reputable outlets and “aggregators.”

• John Skipper’s Critique of News on Twitter:

  • Skipper questions the premise of getting news from Twitter, likening it to “getting my news from the 7-11.”

    “You are part of the problem. Of course you’re getting your news from Twitter. Why the hell are you getting your news from Twitter?”
    — John Skipper, [30:11]

  • Acknowledges social platforms’ immunity under Section 230, making them “not responsible” for misinformation, and thus removing accountability found in conventional media.

  • David: “I’m not blaming Twitter… I’m blaming myself and the fact I rely on the New York Times as a source of information, and I expect them to go through this practice of vetting.” [33:50]

• The Persistent Need for Journalistic Process

  • Pablo: “The only way forward is newsroom standards, fact checking, and editing—saving that process, even if results are sometimes wrong.” [35:20]
  • Skipper defends the Times’ general credibility, but notes: “Everybody has a predisposed point of view… To believe only the truth and nothing but the truth is possible in journalism is not realistic.” [36:37]
  • Pablo, on modern media’s grand promise vs. messy reality:

    “Their sales pitch is so grand—it’s ‘we deliver the truth.’ And that itself is a false advertisement.”
    — Pablo Torre, [36:52]

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5. America’s Gerontocracy: Aging Leadership, Shifting Cultural Tastes

• Why Are Our Leaders So Old (and Staying That Way)?

  • John Skipper discusses a Washington Post story: Americans in power are older than ever—due in part to longer lifespans and “refusing to give up power and status.” [43:39]
  • Pablo details how top-grossing actors (by audience poll) are overwhelmingly male and in their late 50s/60s.
  • Skipper notes the lack of older women in the public sphere and pop culture.

• Should There Be Mandatory Retirement for Politicians?

  • Skipper: “It does matter that the people running our country are too old… I think there should be mandatory retirement ages.” [45:06]
  • Samson: “Wait a minute—they’re elected!” [44:42]
  • Skipper: “We aren’t turning to them—they’re refusing to go away.” [44:39]

• On Power, Ego, and Succession (Meta/Studio In-Joke):

  • The segment ends with jokes about assigned seat labels (“mid guest”) and who’s blocking whom in career advancement.

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6. Final Takeaways & Memorable Quotes

a) What Did You Find Out?

• David Samson:

  • “The retirement and the hierarchy and the ego is definitely making me examine my future.” [47:30]

• John Skipper:

  • “What I found out today is that David Samson, a very, very bright man, is busy getting his news from Twitter. It just feels wrong.” [47:44]
  • Imitates a “jamoke” (knucklehead) at 7-11 getting news and a lottery ticket:

    “Can I get a pack of cigarettes, a scratch-off, and tell me what’s happening with the Speaker?” [48:16]

• Pablo Torre:

  • “What I found out is that deep inside this kimono, next to these two older rich men… there is a lot of room for love, no question.” [48:59]

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Notable Quotes (With Timestamps and Attribution)

• “I just believe the NBA rights are worth $1 more than what anyone else will pay for them.”
  — John Skipper, [07:27]

• “The only way forward... is newsroom standards, fact-checking, and editing—saving that process, even if results are sometimes wrong.”
  — Pablo Torre, [35:20]

• “You are part of the problem. Of course you’re getting your news from Twitter. Why the hell are you getting your news from Twitter?”
  — John Skipper, [30:11]

• “I'm blaming myself and the fact I rely on the New York Times as a source of information, and I expect them to go through this practice of vetting.”
  — David Samson, [33:50]

• "It does matter that the people running our country are too old. I think there should be mandatory retirement ages."
  — John Skipper, [45:06]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | [00:55] | Opening banter: cold brew & CBD drinks—setting the in-the-room vibe | | [04:12] | Origins of The Sporting Class – “rich guy OnlyFans” and ethos of “open kimonos” | | [07:27] | John Skipper explains his NBA rights negotiation philosophy | | [10:12] | Inside ESPN’s NBA deal details, what those numbers really mean | | [15:07] | Disney’s motives in releasing ESPN financials: sale or partnership? | | [20:29] | ESPN’s profit magnitude vs. Disney Studios/Parks | | [22:31] | Do ratings matter in media rights deals? (Short answer: Not really) | | [27:38] | David’s struggle with news consumption, trust, and the New York Times’ Gaza reporting | | [30:11] | John Skipper’s “7-11” analogy for Twitter news | | [36:52] | Pablo on media’s “false advertising” of truth and the challenge of delivering it | | [42:48] | America’s cultural gerontocracy—age of top stars and politicians, gender and age bias | | [45:06] | Should there be a mandatory retirement age for leaders? | | [47:44] | “What did you find out?” — final takeaways, banter, and show wind-down |

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Tone & Style

The episode is conversational, snarky, and deeply candid—punctuated by clever barbs, self-awareness, and historical references. The chemistry among Pablo, John, and David creates a free-flowing, laughter-tinged but substantive dialogue on weighty topics, always circling back to the idea of “finding out” in an unpredictable sports and information world.

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For listeners new to the show, this episode is a prime example of how business journalism, media criticism, personal reflection, and humor collide—offering a rare look into the decision-making, anxieties, and motives of sports and media power brokers, with no shortage of self-deprecation or quotable lines.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[John Skipper]

No, it just feels wrong. It's like, oh, I'm getting my. I'm getting my news from the 7 11.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right. Where's.

[John Skipper]

That's where everybody goes to get beer, David. I might as well get my news.

[Pablo Torre]

There right after this ad. You're listening to Giraffe Kings. So this office I want to bring people into the world of Pablo Torre finds out now merging with the sporting class for one special performance this week. This office that John Skipper built has a fridge stocked with two things. Mostly one of those things is cold brew. I have that in my glass here. The other thing is a CBD infused drink that John guzzles all of the time.

[John Skipper]

It's for mind and body function. And right at the top of my list of things I want is mind and body function.

[David Samson]

Not necessarily in that order.

[John Skipper]

Oddly enough, it has no effect as anything with CBD I've ever ingested or rubbed or put on my body, I've never felt any effect from cbd. The pertinent substance is thc, not cbd.

[Pablo Torre]

Correct.

[David Samson]

I've already found out more than I need to know.

[Pablo Torre]

The drink's name, by the way. This is I. I enjoy them. The drink's name is Vibes with a Y. And so there's just a beautiful juxtaposition with John Skipper drinking Vibes with a Y. As I bring in John Skipper and David Samson, my usual co hosts on the sporting class, the preeminent I. So I want to describe it in a way that I haven't described it before because on one level, yes, it's the preeminent sports business show that exists in America. Facts. On another level, on another level, it's sort of like rich guy only fans.

[John Skipper]

I wasn't aware that we had any fans. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Samson]

I was aware of that. But I do keep my shoes on.

[Pablo Torre]

No, we want to see the feet. Actually, not your feet. Literally your feet are disgusting and have terrible.

[David Samson]

No, my feet are actually very well coiffed.

[Pablo Torre]

We'll show the Picture on the YouTube channel and DraftKings Network. Despite all of the things that'll do to our audience. But the point is we get access behind the scenes to what it's actually like to be a rich guy who has worked at the highest levels of sports and your points of view, to me, it makes what we do together one of my favorite things to do in life. And it's because you guys Open kimonos and we get real intimate, whether or not there's CBD oil rubbed all over those specific regions.

[John Skipper]

I'd like to just stipulate that I'm rich with a Y, not an I, R, Y, C, H. And I'm actually gonna change my name to S, K, Y, P, P, E, R. I would.

[David Samson]

Like to stipulate that working with John is a true pleasure because I've gotten to know him in a way that I didn't expect to when I worked with him in baseball when he was at espn. And I didn't enjoy being around him or seeing him because I just felt taken advantage of at all times. And then getting to know him as someone in business fascinates me. Especially now. You bring up the drink and you're giving free advertising and publicity. I want to point out what I'm drinking, which is water without a label because we don't have a water sponsor. So I am not going to give one ounce of anything to anybody without pain. And it's quite disappointing to be partners with someone who willy nilly, will give out free advertising.

[John Skipper]

Well, you, you know, you are the truest capitalist I've ever known. You're a pure capitalist.

[David Samson]

It makes it easy to know me, doesn't it?

[John Skipper]

I'm a capitalist socialist with a yes. Pablo, you go first. You got to get this show on track.

[Pablo Torre]

I know, I know. This is me losing control. This is what it's like to hang out with John and David in this office. And I want to explain who these men are for people who aren't familiar with their legends, because David Sampson, former president of the, of the then Florida Marlins, now Miami Marlins, but a guy more than that. John, I think you've noticed this. A guy whose brain is unlike any, I think, any other brain that I know. And I know a lot of weird brains. How would you describe David's weird, weird brain?

[John Skipper]

I don't think his brain is weird or peculiar at all. I think his brain is wired to be a capitalist. He actually, and I mean that As a compliment, Mr. Samson understands about making money. I'm, you know, I'm giving away dollars on the street corner.

[David Samson]

Here's the thing about my brain versus John's brain. And I've thought about this for quite a long time as I was thinking, do I want to get under the kimono with someone like John? Easy to do with Dan because of the relationship that I had with Dan. Not so easy to do with John. And I was thinking, what will metal arc be successful? And it didn't occur to me that there was anything other than a successful end to Meadowlark, whatever the exit strategy is whenever that happens. Because while John plays the part, he's just an actor playing the part of the socialist, the communist. Jon is as about money as I am, except he just likes to act. And what nothing personal is. I don't act. This is me, this is how I think. This is what I think. But you never know with John.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, this is where, this is where we come to our first topic today because David sees the world through all of these calculations. He sees it as truly like probabilistic, financially rigorous calculuses calculi. And John happens to be the guy who happened to just run the most, I think we've called it numerous times on the sporting class, the best business in the history of media as the president of espn. And so when I'm reading in the Wall Street Journal this article that's headlined how the NBA Plans to Remake TV Deals and Net Billions of dollars for its stars, I'm reminded that I now work for the guy again who signed those billion dollar deals in the first place. This is the map that he drew. And then I read the Ethan Strauss story on his substack with which is a commentary on that Journal piece about how, quote, I'm not sure how the NBA triples its rights fees in a TV recession. And he is far more skeptical and cynical and doubting of the idea that the cable television model is doing anything but cratering and the tech money that's supposed to come in is anything but illusory, given the rich checks that John Skipper liked to write once upon a time. And so John, uh huh. This is literally your account, or was once upon a time. What do you make of the idea that NBA season is upon us and it may never be the same given the price of what people like to pay for such a sport.

[John Skipper]

The premise of the idea that because of the decline of pay TV the money's not going to be there for the NBA, the money's going to be there for the NBA. And this does get to the difference in brains in some ways. We were talking about David and again I say this with admiration, is a guy who does his homework. He does his research, he calculates, he analyzes things. I have a much simpler instinctual style to some extent. I just believe the NBA rights are worth $1 more than what anyone else will pay for them. That's what they're worth. So I never did a whole lot of calculating to sort of go what should we pay? I went into the negotiation but believing I needed to win and that I needed to get those rights to maintain ESPN's status as the worldwide leader in sports.

[David Samson]

So you're saying that your board had no care about roi. They just said, let's think what John with his vibes is drinking and what he believes the value is. And we're good with that. No, I don't think parameters. No financial parameters. Just your feeling of a dollar more.

[John Skipper]

It's not quite that casual.

[David Samson]

I would like to talk about that.

[John Skipper]

And I had a CFO who spent time doing the budgets and doing the projections. And we did project. We said, here's what happens if we pay this amount of money. Here's what happens. We pay this y amount of money. I'm simply talking about the sort of idea that there is some intrinsic inherent value that can be calculated. There's not. It's like buying a house. It's like buying a painting. It's like buying any kind of work of art. I mean, what's the inherent value of a Rothco? There's no inherent value other than what somebody else will pay for it.

[David Samson]

I hear you, but I'm sorry to go deeper, but they're comps for a reason. So there's a market for Rothko. So when you go to the auction house and there's a piece of art for sale, you are aware when they have an estimate, the estimate doesn't just fall out of John Skipper's brain. There's a reason for an estimate for a house. There's a value, there's an appraisal. Things are appraised according to the value, not according. There is ego premium with the value of a sports team.

[John Skipper]

Right.

[David Samson]

And there could be go premium with the value of certain works of art. Let's say a Van Gogh. Yes, but if you're looking at a Rothko, great example, there's a market for him. Like there's a market for a house, like there's a market for the NBA. And we're seeing already the possibility of Turner saying, hey, we're being priced out of this market. Which happens.

[Pablo Torre]

Well. So John, remind everybody, remind us what you paid for the NBA deal. What was the deal that you signed that's now up for expiration?

[John Skipper]

The NBA deal was nine years for ESPN, I think it was an average annual of about $1.36 billion. Turner's is 1.24. Remember, this is important for later average annual. Most people don't actually understand that. That doesn't mean that Every year you're paying 1.36 billion. It means that year one of a nine year deal you're paying. I'm making these numbers up, but they're directionally right, 1.2. And by the end of this deal they're probably paying 1.5. So to start with, the idea that whatever it goes up from is 1.36, but they're already paying 1.5, so they're going to end up paying an average annual of two and a half.

[David Samson]

That's pr. I mean what you, what you're saying, right? And because you do it with player contracts, you do it with employee contracts. If you give someone a raise during the course of an employment deal, whether you're a player or a media superstar like Pablo, you are taking, you could take his average annual value, except what he's going to do is as a talent and the NBA is the talent here, right? He's going to look at what his last salary was for the last year of the deal and he's going to want an increase from that number. So if you went to Pablo as an example and said we're going to give you a 10% increase from your AAV after a three year deal, he would say, no, no, the way I calculated is I want 10% for my last year.

[Pablo Torre]

That's good negotiating by David. But David, get my contract done now as well in this conversation. That'd be cool though.

[John Skipper]

I will tell you, in any negotiation I ever had, I never heard about anything except we paid one and a half average annual last time. We want to take you up and double that.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, so John, this is, this is.

[John Skipper]

That'S what I heard from baseball. From baseball. Gee, you're paying average annual. I think we're paying 350 because we.

[David Samson]

Used to manufacture what the payouts were to owners. And so what owners would look at is how much money did we get this year from the broadcast deal distributed versus how much money are we going to get next year distributed?

[John Skipper]

Yeah.

[David Samson]

And when the commissioner manipulates the distributions, it makes it easy to convince owners, hey, you're getting more money, you're getting X percent more.

[Pablo Torre]

But okay, so a lot of kimono opening now, which I love. But the update here for the public is that seemingly in this journal piece, ESPN and TNT are unwilling to pay the prices that they paid that they got from John.

[John Skipper]

Why, why do, why do they, are they reporting that they have said they're unwilling to pay you? I haven't heard anything, sources other than, other than. I've only heard one thing, which is there was a moment where David Zaslav said, gee, we're not going to pay an inappropriate price.

[David Samson]

Well, I say we don't want to lose money.

[Pablo Torre]

So the price that they're saying, per the Wall Street Journal, that they're unwilling to pay, is $2.6 billion a year on NBA rights. This is ESPN and TNT. As the league is seeking deals now with Amazon and Apple and tech companies.

[John Skipper]

Well, that. That is fairly poor reporting and just, just misleading. These guys would jump if you set up an obstacle course 100 yards away. And the executives and the board and everybody said you could pay only $2.6 billion to renew your rights. They would be flying to do that. So why. There's a suggestion that they're not willing to pay the amount they're paying now. First of all, they're already paying more now than 2.6 billion and nobody. Pardon.

[David Samson]

Combined.

[John Skipper]

Yeah, combined, they're paying more than that already. So why is the Wall Street Journal suggesting that they somehow have sources suggesting they're not willing to pay what they're paying now?

[David Samson]

You know why? You know why leaks happen. It's in the best interest of the bidder to say to the person who has the asset, hey, we're not going to be able to meet your number.

[John Skipper]

Nobody pays any attention to that. Everybody knows that's what's going on. And trust me, the NBA is not even thinking about $2.6 billion from Turner and, and ESPN. They're thinking about quite a bit more money. And they don't care what the Wall Street Journal reports, that they are willing to pay that because they have more bidders. That's all that matters. And I go back, David, I didn't. When you were talking about Rothko, I'm talking about walking into the auction house and going, I'm going to buy this Rothko. I am going to buy it. The mark. The mark to market is $60 million. But I'm there holding up a paddle, and when somebody else bids 61, I'm going 62. That's all I'm saying. That was my attitude, and that was my intention in those deals, was to win. And because we needed that content. Turner and Espion need this content. This is a really, really hard problem.

[Pablo Torre]

So the context broadly here, though, as we imagine John Skipper, you know, in Uncut Gems, bidding, raising the paddle up on the piece of art that he loves, is that there is now this larger concern that the pockets of the bidders when it comes to cable television, David, are Not as deep anymore. Or at least now we see inside of the pockets in ways that we hadn't before.

[David Samson]

This has been the biggest news of the past week or two for me has been finally espn, Disney, abc, whatever you want to call it, just let's say espn. And forgetting corporate ownership, they had to release, not had. Let me, let me use the better verb. They did for reasons that we can tell you, which is they're selling. Disney is selling espn. They wants to, they want to, they need to raise cash. There is a lagging stack stock price and they need to pay down debt. So they want to sell espn so they release the financials that John would never release. He would never tell the truth to leagues, he would never tell the truth to owners, commissioners, anybody. It would be nothing but a lie.

[Pablo Torre]

And now the vibes are getting worse.

[David Samson]

Now it's all in the public. So what the leagues are doing, whether it's Adam Silver, your buddy, which on a side note, the way you're carrying his water makes me laugh. Adam Silver is bending over backwards. He's rubbing stuff all over every joint, fixing the all star game, doing stuff with load management. What do you think? He's doing that because he wants a better product. He's doing it because he wants the networks to be able to have something to attach to, to offer the money that he wants. Do you know, are you even willing to agree with that or not?

[John Skipper]

No, no, no disagreement to that.

[David Samson]

But if everyone's willing to pay what he wants, why is he changing things? To get more.

[John Skipper]

His objective is to get more. So he is going to put things in front of people to get them to pay more money. Nobody. I don't recall ever being in negotiation, big negotiation with a big league where they didn't bring some new toys to the table to try to push the prices up. Right. More playoff teams.

[David Samson]

But Adam's looking triple.

[John Skipper]

I don't actually know. Again, we're all assuming that this reporting actually has first party sources. I don't think Adam has actually ever said I'm going to get three times. I don't think either ESPN or TNT has ever said we can't afford to buy this.

[David Samson]

Well, what's he told you?

[John Skipper]

If he did tell me anything and he doesn't because we both understand as friends that he's not going to put me in a position of either lying or revealing things that he doesn't want revealed. And I wouldn't put him in that position.

[Pablo Torre]

But what about the ratings here, right? There are toys on the table and there's also a larger context of the NBA ratings not being seemingly in the linear television fashion. Of course, the NBA can claim that we are over indexing on on social and digital video, but the actual business of people watching games, how does this inform this negotiation?

[John Skipper]

Look, you can go around and around this stuff all you want. The fact of the matter is these are existential rights for espn. They have to have the NBA, and it's pretty close to existential tnt. I don't know if they have to have the NBA, but I think they do. Again, there's a lot of stuff here that we're assuming is being correctly reported. They probably do have sources, but including what you just said, Dave, you said that ESPN is for sale. That's not what they've said. They have said what we're looking for is a minority partner to come in and give us some money to pay down the debt who can also help us.

[David Samson]

Everyone starts with, hey, we just would like to bring in a limited partner. Oh, crikeys. We can't get anyone to give us 10x on a limited partnership. All right, we'll give you a path to control. That's the second step.

[John Skipper]

That sometimes happens. I agree with you, but I don't know. And I did live within that place for 27 years. I don't know that I believe that the board and Bob want to sell ESPN as a whole. They may be forced to because I'm not sure there is a minority partner. They also said they wanted a minority partner who would help them either grow their content or their distribution. And again, I'm not quite sure what that does you then. By the way, I do have to defend myself. I never had a say in whether ESPN's numbers were released or not. That was a board and a CEO.

[David Samson]

When I'd ask you or anyone would ask you to tell us the truth about your financial model, you go to all your partners right now and say, open your kimono. Tell me how you're doing. How are you monetizing? Nothing personal. You're happy to do it now because you're on the other side.

[John Skipper]

Absolutely.

[David Samson]

When we did it to you, you clammed up.

[John Skipper]

Well, first of all, I couldn't do it. I worked for the Walt Disney Company. What advantage would I get in telling you how much money we made?

[Pablo Torre]

We've now reached the point where David no longer believes any of his argum.

[David Samson]

No, I mean, I get why he did it.

[Pablo Torre]

No, of course you would do the same thing.

[David Samson]

Of course I would.

[Pablo Torre]

But can I give a larger but.

[David Samson]

I would admit it.

[John Skipper]

Well, but you are right about. What you are right about is the Walt Disney Company did not want to release the ESPN numbers. One, they did not want the leagues to see those numbers because they would have asked for more money and they did not want the distributors to see how much money ESPN was making. So they aggregated the media earnings. They also.

[David Samson]

It's a big point what he said.

[John Skipper]

Yeah. I also actually believe they did not want the rest of the company to know how much of the value of the company was espn. And Wall street tried for years and years characterized the calculations of what they.

[David Samson]

Try to back into it. That's what analysts do and they got it wrong. But for people don't have the info.

[Pablo Torre]

For people who don't know, John, how big of the pie ESPN is, so to speak, how big of the pie is it?

[John Skipper]

ESPN was bigger during, during the teens, the tens 2006.

[David Samson]

The height of the submarket.

[John Skipper]

The height of the submarket. ESPN was a bigger, more profitable company than the studio and the parks put together.

[Pablo Torre]

Which is staggering. Right. I mean unsurprising to you guys who've been swimming in these waters. All of this is water to you. You're not surprised. But from the outside and it, it connects to the concern. Now about here are these tech companies that have more money than God, right. Their pocket depth is not the concern. The concern though is that I presume they're seeing again to just reference opening night ratings that just happened, right. Last year. And again this is just one metric. But last year 2.984 million people watch Sixers Celtics 3.55 watch Lakers Warriors. That was last year. This year 2.8 for Lakers Nuggets, 2.7 for Suns Warriors. So a decline of some degree. And so the question is, and this is Ethan's skepticism in the piece is why would a tech company that thinks more like David Sampson, right. Looking for every margin, not wanting to overpay by even a dollar. Right. I want to mark this to market why they would replicate the largesse of. Of the John Skipper regime.

[David Samson]

So I think you'll. We'll agree here. When you were calculating which you're saying you never calculated but someone was calculating worth. I'm not sure that ratings actually factored anywhere into the calculation. It's sexy. There are press releases about where we are. It feels bad when you're down, it feels great when you're up. And you could do it based on a percentage increase which a hundred percent increase from 1 is 2 and that's still Crappy, because Marlins, we would do that all the time. Hey, our TV ratings were up 69%. Oh my God, they're the worst in baseball.

[Pablo Torre]

Love a press release, David.

[David Samson]

Love a press release. So do you agree you didn't do that? You didn't care about ratings?

[John Skipper]

We didn't get paid for ratings other than advertising. Right. And if you look at the numbers just released by the Walt Disney Company, they had just north of $10 billion in distribution fees. Those don't change a cent based upon ratings. They're going to get paid next year. 10 point something billion dollars if nobody watches. My predecessor, who negotiated for rights before I got there, would frequently walk in with a whole bunch of data about ratings and where the leagues were and how many fans had showed up and would try to convince the other party that the offer they were going to make was more than generous because that's what the numbers showed they deserved. Did you care about that? In baseball, it's the same thing. It works both ways. Nobody cared. You never talk anybody into believing that you have the right position. That's one thing I never believed. I'm never going to talk the guy across the table from me into. I'm actually right, you know, I really should get to pay you $5, not the seven you want. Did you?

[David Samson]

I wouldn't. Negotiation? No. The way I negotiate is I try to make everything the other party's idea and I try to get them to want what I want and have it be that they actually want it, when in fact they don't know what they want. So I love doing that and it's a great exercise to do.

[John Skipper]

Yeah. That's the first thing I always ask in any rights meeting was tell me what matters to you.

[David Samson]

What can I do for you?

[John Skipper]

Then I'm going to give them most of what matters to them anyway. They're going to say, oh, we want.

[David Samson]

Games on, because it mostly won't matter to you.

[John Skipper]

Yeah. So I would walk in and say, what do you want? What matters to you? I need to understand your priorities so I can address them. The first meeting, we never threw out numbers. The first meeting was about finding out what they wanted. And then he's a pro. Yeah. Recapitulating to them that. By the way, last meeting you said this mattered to you. Here's in my offer to you, here's everything, of course, just gets down to as it does with an auction for a Rothko. It gets down to a paddle in money. Which is why I say. And I don't. I think I Come off maybe as more flippant and casual about it. I was very disciplined about it. I just never deluded myself that I was going to talk someone else into believing that what I wanted to pay was what they were going to take or that they should take my money rather than somebody else's. More money. That doesn't happen. Happened one time, the Little League World Series. We got the rights when somebody else was prepared to bid more money because they thought it belonged on espn, which I appreciated. Wasn't a lot of money.

[David Samson]

You're a FIFA dream come true.

[John Skipper]

Dream come true, I was going to say.

[Pablo Torre]

And Cinemax was never the same as a network for losing out on those rights. All right, so the spirit of share and tell. I should continually brand. What we're doing here is that we each bring in a story that we love or obsessed with this week. That was a sports business obsession that clearly we continue to have. But I want to expand it so you guys can spread your wings a little bit. So, David, what is rattling around your weird brain?

[David Samson]

I've had a hard time this past couple weeks, as many of us have, especially being Jewish. It's been difficult dealing with my kids being. Dealing. Dealing with people with whom I work. The rise of anti Semitism, the fact that I'm quite concerned with where things are in the. In Israel and Gaza. And I'm trying to figure out how to come to grips with how I'm getting my information. And I'm struggling because I work with Coco, who's the producer of Nothing Personal, and he spends half his day telling me that what I'm reading is wrong when I submit something to him. Hey, is this really. Is this. I've gotten screwed so many times, falling.

[Pablo Torre]

For the aggregators and the fake accounts every day.

[David Samson]

And because I get my news on Twitter on X. Yeah. And there was an article. There was the bombing, which this is a serious topic. The bombing in Gaza, the hospital bombing, where the thought was it was the idf and it turns out that it was a faulty bomb that was by Hamas. And the New York Times got itself involved in this and they got involved because they reported something that turned out not to be true. And I was sensitive to it. Not just as a American Jew. I'm sensitive to it as a consumer of news, as a consumer of sports. Sports is easy for me to consume. There's a winner and a loser. I don't worry about a box score being incorrect because it's binary. The news is not binary as much as people want to believe it. And as Much as there's conservatives and liberals, I am far more a centrist. Where I view that there is, you can look at an issue from many different angles. And I'm trying to teach myself and educate myself using the news. And what's bothering me greatly is I'm losing my sources. And I don't mean sources as an investigative reporter. I mean sources who are teaching me and telling me what's happening. Because bad information in is bad information out.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, so just to clarify, though, what you're. What you have been vexed by is the New York Times now, per Vanity Fair investigation, they acquired slack messages internally from the Times. With the Times messed up, was the basic reporting of the truth. What really happened here under time pressure in the fog of war, of course. But there was, at the very least, per Vanity Fair, like, extensive back and forth. John, about like, we should do this. No, let's do this. There was a squad of people who were deliberating, as a newsroom does, on how we're going to report this thing.

[John Skipper]

Well, and I need to clarify that. I don't think anybody thinks Hamas fired the bomb. It was suggested that the Palestinian Authority, which was a different terrorist group, may have fired the bomb. The US Government has investigated and said they believe definitively that Israel did not send the bomb, though they cannot definitively say who did fire the bomb. And by the way, fire the bomb. It looks as though it was some sort of misfire. Right?

[David Samson]

That there was, because Went up and went down.

[John Skipper]

Yeah, it went up and went down within Gaza. So it didn't come from somewhere else.

[Pablo Torre]

The Hamas government was the one that said this is the idf. That was the source that they were relying on.

[John Skipper]

Correct. And that, of course, is a bad source of information. But to this day, nobody knows exactly what happened. It clearly was. Was a misfire within Gaza, but I don't think anybody knows. And the U.S. i think it's the CIA, but I'm not sure because my news sources may be askew too. But some. The U.S. government investigated says they support Israel's claim that they did not fire that bomb. I think that's generally accepted. I don't think people know who did or what happened. Exactly. It's not. I do blame the Times for they should not have used Hamas as a source. That's a bad idea. They should. However, it is a logical first thought that, oh, my gosh, Israel is bombing Gaza. Now a bomb went off in a hospital. Everybody knew that Hamas was hiding in hospitals and schools. And so it wasn't that surprising. But it was surprising the times fell for Hamas pointing the finger quickly to try to turn public opinion against.

[David Samson]

That's the scary thing. So what's scary to me is that I'm not just talking about what's going on in Gaza. I'm talking about what's going on in Maine. I'm talking about what's going on in New York City. And I have been jarred. I've been rocked to my foundation.

[John Skipper]

You are part of the problem. Of course you're getting your news from Twitter. Why the hell are you getting your news from Twitter?

[Pablo Torre]

And that's the conversation, David, like so much of. To me, I've been thinking about this a lot as I wrestle with the same things. How am I supposed to follow this mass shooting, this bombing, all of this stuff on this place where also I know, per Elon Musk's directives, almost it's just harder to find truth. And it's the place where we do silly, unserious things, and at the same time, we're at. At that same trough, we're where we're eating, you know, like we.

[John Skipper]

Why, that was kind of my point about getting your news from Twitter.

[Pablo Torre]

But I do the same. I want to be clear. Twitter, as. This is the portal into which I have gotten news for a decade now, 15 years I've been on this stupid platform.

[David Samson]

So Twitter, I want to point out, and I don't know that you're on because when I. When I tag you, you ignore me. And maybe that's just me. Twitter does not report news. Twitter is the platform. But I go to the New York Times website on Twitter. It is. It's. It's the New York Times byline.

[Pablo Torre]

The New York Times, David, is effectively and to me often is a Twitter account.

[David Samson]

I still get the paper delivered. However, I'm a. I'm a dinosaur in that way. But yes, on your phone. No, no, I actually get the hard copy.

[Pablo Torre]

No, no, no. But I mean, you're reading in. In practice on your phone, as we all are.

[David Samson]

Everybody.

[Pablo Torre]

And so it's that John, that Marshall McLuhan quote, right? Of like, the medium is the message. The medium of Twitter. Slash X, slash. Whatever the it is. It's. It's. It's an embodiment of how we are getting shorter, faster, more attention, clickbaity, and in effect, dumber.

[David Samson]

Well, everybody mis. More misled. I'm not sure it's dumber. I would say it's more misled.

[John Skipper]

I. I think that's right. But we're all making the Mistake of assuming because of a lifetime of practice that things that are put in front of us are true. Because for a long time there weren't really mechanisms to effectively spread false information. You could lie to somebody. I said, whom? You could write an op ed piece to somebody. Now you can lie all the time, say whatever you want to say, and there's no consequence. And that's because these social media platforms have arisen and they have hidden behind. I forget what it was called, the act in which they say, I'm not responsible for. I'm not a publisher. You can hold a paper accountable, right? You can hold a physical newspaper accountable for printing lies.

[Pablo Torre]

Section 230, section 2.

[John Skipper]

You cannot hold Twitter accountable. We, we spend all of our time trying to convince them, you should have standards, you should have fact checking. But of course, there is a large constituency that doesn't want that because they want to use these platforms to send misinformation. And you should not be getting your news.

[David Samson]

I used to view it differently, which is even a newspaper like the New York Times, they have an editorial section that is opinion, it states it. This is not reporting the news. This is reporting the opinion of the author. And now they are being combined in a way that makes it so I can't tell the difference.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, the flattening of all of it onto the same platform, essentially, it's just harder to tell opinion from reporting, truth from fact. And I want to point out that we started this conversation, David, what's been rattling around your brain is the New York Times error. So in deference to the Internet, which I'm sure as a, as. As. As a side of this argument, is yelling, the New York Times just up and you're blaming Twitter. So I wanna get to that part. Right?

[David Samson]

I didn't blame Twitter, nor should you. It is the New York Times I'm not gonna ever blame. So this is where I'm in the minority for where I stand politically. I'm not blaming Elon Musk. I'm not blaming Twitter for my issues and figuring out what's real and what's not real. I'm blaming myself and I'm blaming the fact that I rely on the New York Times as an example as a source of information, and I expect them to go through this practice of vetting.

[Pablo Torre]

But, John, I just want to point out to you, because you're not on.

[John Skipper]

Twitter, I'm not on Twitter, so I'm not ostracizing you personally. I am ostracizing the platform because I don't find Any value to it.

[Pablo Torre]

But the New York Times. I want to be careful here because, David, I just want to make sure you're not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Right. The idea that the New York Times, that any journalistic institution. John, has messed up, they mess up all of the time. The problem with being a media organization premised on delivering truth is that when you mess up, it is very easy for someone to point out you lied and you are a liar, and you're no different from the people who lie, like the aggregators and everything else.

[David Samson]

There's a big mistake between a mental error and a physical error in sports. Right. What? I didn't mean to say. Right. That's a terrible verbal tick.

[Pablo Torre]

I do it all the time.

[David Samson]

3, 2, 1. There's a big difference between a mental error and a physical error.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[David Samson]

What you're describing, the New York Times, there's corrections all the time. Those are just things that happen where you have a year. Wrong. There's a problem. What we learned in the Vanity Fair article is process. That's not correction, that's process.

[Pablo Torre]

But we want process. John, as a guy who funded a journalistic enterprise at espn, I. The result is bad. And the process in this case specifically was also bad. But the process writ large of standards, newsroom, fact checking, editing, reporting, that's the only way forward to me is we need to save that.

[John Skipper]

Yes, we do. And the problem is you have a large constituency right now which actually doesn't want to tell the truth. We just. They just. We have a new speaker of the House who doesn't believe Joe Biden won in 2020, doesn't believe that there's climate change, doesn't believe burning fossil fuels causes any damage.

[David Samson]

You're missing the biggest one that he doesn't believe in. That women's bodies are their own.

[John Skipper]

Yeah. I want to go back and actually defend the New York Times a tiny bit. They made a mistake, but it's generally a credible news source. I believe that 95% of what I read in the New York Times is accurately reported. You're right, David. They have a lot of stuff that they say. This is an opinion. This is. I'm Gail Collins, and here's what I think about the new speaker. That's opinion. But most of what they report, I believe they reported pretty accurately and that they care and that they want to tell the truth.

[David Samson]

It's a liberal slant.

[John Skipper]

It's no question that they have a predisposed point of view. They do. Everybody does. The sort of notion that it's possible in journalism to be completely and utterly objective and only tell the truth is you.

[David Samson]

This is not your goal, but this is.

[Pablo Torre]

It is your goal, but this speaks to and a striving towards a goal with the transparency of how that goal is being achieved. Which is to say with the disclosure of bias whenever possible with the disclosure of how your process works. Right. Like to me, the big catch 22 for media organizations is that their sales pitch is so grand. It's we deliver the truth and that itself is a false advertisement. It's really, we do our best as an organization full of fallible biased people to deliver the closest thing to the truth in the fog of war and confusion on incredibly complicated subjects. Not as catchy as Democracy Dies in darkness, admittedly, but it's kind of what we need. Not kind of. It's outright what we need.

[John Skipper]

We have it, we just don't. People don't accept it. There are organizations which are trying. I believe I have no. I believe NBC News is trying to report just the way you just said it. There are credible sources and there are non credible sources and smart people can pick and choose among them and find places where they believe they're getting better reporting. It's reporting. It's not, it's not even. It is news to a certain extent, but it's also just reporting.

[David Samson]

Except when Brian Williams makes it up.

[Pablo Torre]

So. But this is, but this is where it's.

[David Samson]

It.

[Pablo Torre]

The. The false advertisement is a problem when you can point to any. When anybody can point to examples of you lying. When your premise is complicated monologue about delivering truth, then you become a liar and you need. It's. It's almost like being. It's like a closer who can't blow a safe. It's like a goalkeeper who can't allow a goal like the standard a news organization is held to because of its own standards is always higher than the person they're directly competing with. Which now in sports, for instance, can be literally ball sack sports, which fools David all of the time, apparently.

[David Samson]

Pilots can't crash a plane. You don't get one strike, you don't get a blown save, you don't get a goal.

[Pablo Torre]

But what if that plane is the thing we need to carry us to our next location? That same plane?

[David Samson]

It is. And we still don't accept anything other than perfection. The thing about the truth is that there's nothing to agree on. It's just true.

[Pablo Torre]

But give us a body, David, that has existed where there is consensus around I it.

[David Samson]

You got to Go day of the week. There's certain things that we all accept, no matter where we stand, that are just true and we don't question them. But it's eroded over time. Where now the line, the bar of what we were willing to agree as true is bottoming out.

[Pablo Torre]

It's 12:47pm Eastern right now. What time is it in Tokyo?

[David Samson]

1:47Am what day it is the next day tomorrow.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I think the plane has crashed. All right, so I promised a lighter subject. And so, John, what, what have you brought us to bring lightness and mirth?

[John Skipper]

Well, as a, as an elderly American, a patriotic American, I have seen in the Washington Post a story that says as older Americans push retirement age, what's next for younger workers? And this, this purports to explain that our country is now looking out of COVID for mature older leaders. And it cites, you know, Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi and et cetera, et cetera, and the right star, Mitch McConnell.

[Pablo Torre]

Biden, Trump, undermining the argument itself.

[David Samson]

Terrible.

[John Skipper]

But this to me is a whole lot to do about nothing, really. Yeah, it's. Look at the turn of the 20th century. The median age for a human being was 40 years old. That's how long people lived. That was a lifespan. It's 80 years. When you start the 21st century, the average life expectancy is about 80. It's about doubled. It's not doubled because science and technology have helped us figure out how to live longer. It's because science and technology, medicine, have helped to solve some of the things that killed us early. Right. In the Bible, it says you're gonna live to be threescore and 10. You've already cited that. Or maybe that was Abraham Lincoln, but maybe it's him quoting the Bible, often.

[Pablo Torre]

Confused.

[John Skipper]

But it's mostly about people just living longer and living longer, healthier lives and deciding that it's more fun to keep working than it is to quit. Now. This is a luxury that lots of working class people don't have. Right. You're working construction. You're not deciding to push off your retirement age after operating a jackhammer for 30 for 30 years. But you're doing something fun like we're doing here right now. You just keep doing. I'm 67. I don't think about retiring. I. It's a little personal for me as well. My dad retired at 55 and he was never happier not working than he was working.

[David Samson]

And so I learned so many negatives. So what was that? He was never happy or not working. He's upset he retired at 55.

[John Skipper]

Yeah, he. He regretted retiring at 55.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, we look at Hollywood now, by the way, in terms of people with the luxury of choosing do I continue to. To. To work, quote unquote work. Robert de Niro is 80, right? Harrison Ford is 81. He's Indiana Jones. Still, there is this research group, the national Research group in the Washington Post story which pointed out, man, the average age of the actors in the top 20 actors that people say they want to see in a theater. The average age is 58.2.

[David Samson]

And are they all male?

[Pablo Torre]

I don't think only three women made the top Helen Mirren, Julia Roberts, 55, Sandra Bullock, 59, Angelina Jolie, 48. So of course also a male bias when it comes to this specific category.

[David Samson]

Big time.

[John Skipper]

By the way, I did count in this article there are 27 mentions of older men and two mentions of older women. So yeah, this may just be about older guys like me not wanting to give up power and status.

[David Samson]

I didn't take it as people are loving working and they want to keep working. There's a whole group of people who are forced to keep working.

[John Skipper]

I agree with that. But this, this is about Martin Scorsese, Harrison Ford.

[Pablo Torre]

It's about the gerontocracy.

[John Skipper]

It's about the gerontocracy.

[David Samson]

Yes, yes, but I was telling you how I took the article. I'm thinking about people working older for a different reason.

[John Skipper]

You probably read it on Twitter and consequently it was.

[David Samson]

It was just behind a paywall. I didn't read it at all.

[Pablo Torre]

You read it aggregated by Dove Kleiman.

[John Skipper]

Just what some jamoke thought was all it was.

[David Samson]

I don't know that word, but I just think I shouldn't say it.

[Pablo Torre]

It's a word that a 67 year old man loves.

[John Skipper]

It's a great word. Jamoke just means a knucklehead.

[Pablo Torre]

Jamoke, okay, but the gerontocracy, right, the idea, and I remember I was on this is a real look at me Louis moment. But I was on MSNBC the day after Dianne Feinstein died, right? Working at age 90 something. And I felt rude pointing out that it feels insane that anybody would be working at age 90, let alone the people in charge of our country. And so the gerontocracy, right. How do we feel about it as just the trend line? I get the actuarial tables have changed for humanity, for the species. But in terms of like who we are turning to for the leadership, I guess literally the leadership here That's a little worrisome, though you could argue.

[John Skipper]

We're not turning to them. They're refusing to go away.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[David Samson]

Wait a minute. They're elected. Hold on. Are they elected? I must have it. I must have it wrong. They must not be elected.

[John Skipper]

Some of them are elected, but as you know, reelected in safe seats, which is what most of them are now, is a foregone conclusion. If you're in the right party, and that's what happened with. With the fact that our political leadership is this old. I'll actually separate. I don't care that our action heroes are old. Doesn't matter.

[Pablo Torre]

Agreed, agree.

[John Skipper]

Because it doesn't really have any consequences. But. But it does matter that the people running our country are too old. And while I am the oldest person here easily, I do think there should be mandatory retirement age for justices and for representatives.

[Pablo Torre]

That was the appointment.

[John Skipper]

And even for the presidency. Right. And while.

[David Samson]

What about CEOs?

[John Skipper]

While we are getting to choose them, we're going to be choosing between an 81 year old and a 78 year old.

[David Samson]

Only if we make that our choice. Their primaries.

[John Skipper]

Well, you and I, but to. To be fair, while you. We can pretend that there may be democracy in action and somebody, a bunch of people might go to the polls and vote for Nikki Haley instead of Trump or vote for Pete Buttigieg instead of Joe Biden. They're not going to.

[David Samson]

What's the retirement age of metal arc?

[John Skipper]

None. My intention here is to stay in front of everybody's career, to be a blocker for everyone else's career aspirations for at least 20 more years.

[David Samson]

You're a dream come true.

[Pablo Torre]

So this is. That's the cackling of a guy.

[David Samson]

I noticed this in the middle of the show.

[Pablo Torre]

You're taking a photo of that.

[David Samson]

Because I couldn't believe it. It says skipper slash mid guest.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right.

[David Samson]

Like he has his own name.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's mid guests, mediocre guests, and then the greatest guests.

[John Skipper]

I'm not only blocking other people from moving up in their career, I'm staking a claim to this chair right here.

[David Samson]

I'm guest one.

[John Skipper]

You're Skipper or mid guest.

[David Samson]

No, you're not. Okay.

[John Skipper]

All right. Okay, let's go.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, this is. This is how we end the show, as we say what we found out today. And David Sampson has found out that the labels next to our chairs remind him shockingly of the hierarchy of this company in which he feels incredibly devalued. But what did you actually find out today?

[David Samson]

David, Wait, are we going to edit that? Because that is actually what I found out. That was the whole point of what I found out, because I sure didn't find anything about him. So once again, what I found out is the, the retirement and the hierarchy and the ego is definitely making me examine my future.

[John Skipper]

Oh, I'm definitely in your way, career wise. No question about that.

[Pablo Torre]

John, what did you find out today on Pablo Torre Finds out.

[John Skipper]

What I found out today is that David Sampson, a very, very bright man, is busy getting his news from Twitter. Yeah, it just.

[David Samson]

Guilty as charged.

[John Skipper]

No, it just feels wrong. It's like, oh, I'm getting my. I'm getting my news from the 7 11.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right. Where's your.

[John Skipper]

That's where everybody goes to get beer, David. I might as well get my news there. So everybody's going to that Twitter and they're putting in what they think. I. I bet I could get some news out of this.

[David Samson]

That must make me a pamoke. Is it pamoke?

[John Skipper]

Jam oak.

[Pablo Torre]

It's a jam oak.

[David Samson]

Is that the definition when you get your news from 7:11?

[John Skipper]

7:11. Hey, buddy, can I get a pack of cigarettes and can I get a scratch off and tell me what's happening with the speaker?

[Pablo Torre]

John Skipper's jamoke Southern voice is an unbelievable thing that I cannot.

[John Skipper]

Hey, buddy. How about that Mark Mike Jackson?

[Pablo Torre]

I cannot believe we waited this long to get to that. To get to John's jamoke voice. What I found out is that deep inside this kimono, next to these two older rich men.

[John Skipper]

We're skinny, man. It's not a very deep kimono.

[Pablo Torre]

No, I was gonna say there's a lot of room.

[John Skipper]

What kind of depth have you got in the kimono? You know, it's a pretty surface kind of deal.

[David Samson]

Not even 250 combined together, though.

[Pablo Torre]

There is a lot of room for love, no question.

[John Skipper]

Oh, I'm not quite. Is that what you learned today?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I was trying to make a heartwarming thing and David is vomiting up all of his vibes. This has been Pablo Torre finds Out. A show that has way more producers than David Sampson's show. And they are Michael Antonucci, Ryan Cortez, Sam Dawig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Loman, Rachel Miller Howard Ethan Schreier, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan Chris Tominiello Studio engineering by RG Systems Post production by NGW Post and our theme song, of course, by John Bravo. We will talk to all of you next week.

[John Skipper]

Sam.