Share & Tell with Katie Nolan & Dwayne Johnson's Friend Ariel Helwani

Summary

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Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: Share & Tell with Katie Nolan & Dwayne Johnson's Friend Ariel Helwani

Host: Pablo Torre, with Katie Nolan & Ariel Helwani
Date: October 20, 2023

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Main Theme / Purpose

This episode’s Share & Tell format brings together Pablo Torre, Katie Nolan, and MMA journalist Ariel Helwani for a lively, cross-topic conversation. The trio deep-dives into the wild world of influencer boxing (Logan Paul vs. Dylan Danis), the social and existential value of video games, the high-stress life of NBA news breaker Shams Charania, and the woes of modern group texting. Along the way, they debate cultural shifts in sports and tech, tease each other's quirks, and dish surprising personal anecdotes—including Ariel's DMs with Mark Zuckerberg and texts from Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ariel Helwani’s Library & The Art of Zoom Backdrops

[00:34–03:16]

• Ariel is tuning in remotely, prompting Pablo and Katie to question his impressive bookcase background.
• After some playful interrogation (“That’s a green screen, right?” – Katie Nolan, [00:54]), Ariel proves the shelves are real, sharing that it’s a set-piece from his ESPN days.
  • “I like being in a warm library… this is a library. I can’t believe anyone would think this would be in my house, look how many books this is.” – Ariel Helwani [02:20]

2. The Logan Paul vs. Dylan Danis Incident & Influencer Boxing

[03:35–14:32]

• Pablo brings up the viral press conference bottle-throwing incident involving Logan Paul and Dylan Danis, narrating Ariel’s quick reaction to avoid being hit.
  • “If I would have stayed exactly where I was originally, I would have been pelted in the head with a water bottle.” – Ariel Helwani [04:54]
• Ariel details Dylan Danis’ rise from Brazilian Jiu Jitsu expert to infamous social media troll, and how pre-fight drama (including personal attacks on Logan’s fiancée) fueled the event’s popularity.
• Ariel likens the influencer boxing craze to WWE, underscoring its appeal to a young, online audience rather than traditional fight fans.
  • “It’s not boxing. You cannot call it boxing… it’s influencer boxing, a whole different thing.” – Ariel Helwani [13:10]
• Ariel describes the Manchester crowd as more similar to WWE than UFC, packed full of kids who know every YouTuber on the card.
  • “It’s a whole other universe that we don’t know anything about.” [14:30]

3. Promotion, Attention, & the Business Model of Influencer Boxing

[14:32–18:47]

• Pablo posits that the talent to “sell a fight” has found a new farm system in influencer culture.
  • “The skill set of how to sell a fight… the world of influencer YouTubers is such a natural farm system for at least that part of combat sports.” – Pablo Torre [14:32]
• Ariel, though sometimes disheartened by the “sizzle-over-substance” trend, insists that true boxing is still thriving and sees influencer events as a “sign of the times” rather than an existential threat.

4. Video Games: Legitimate Life Lessons & Social Value

[20:06–28:35]

• Katie shares a powerful Paris Review piece about Red Dead Redemption, exploring how video games can offer lessons about morality, control, and redemption.
• She and Pablo reminisce about their pandemic-era mutual gaming adventures and the social opportunities gaming creates.
  • “Every night we play video games together. Every night, around the same time, we get on a headset with a group of people and we play whatever we feel like playing.” – Katie Nolan [22:43]
• Ariel admits to enjoying gaming in his youth but now avoids it due to time constraints and concerns over being a good role model for his kids.

5. Parenting, Hobbies, and Screen Time

[25:00–28:35]

• The trio debates modern parenting challenges: giving kids iPads, encouraging “real-world” play, and the hypnotic draw of handheld consoles even for toddlers.
  • “The intuitive aspect of just how to manipulate any sort of tablet and or video game system is unnerving.” – Pablo Torre [26:50]

6. How to De-stress: Games, Sleep, and… Soccer?

[29:12–30:29]

• While Katie and Pablo unwind with games, Ariel proclaims he has “no real hobbies,” preferring early sleep and, recently, a deepening love for soccer.
  • “If I could go to bed [at] 9:30, I’m thrilled.” – Ariel Helwani [29:48]
• The crew tries to entice Ariel with Rocket League (described as “flying car soccer”), but he jokes that his kids have already outgrown it.

7. Modern Communication Prison: Group Chats & the Tyranny of Notifications

[31:00–44:00]

• Ariel presents a profile of NBA newsbreaker Shams Charania, whose 18-hour phone usage and 500+ daily messages epitomize hyper-connectivity.
  • “It’s a personal jail that you’re living in.” – Ariel Helwani [32:53]
• The trio confesses their own screen-time habits and email inbox tallies (Katie: 22,922 unread; Ariel: 57; Pablo: 3,282).
• Katie laments the inescapability of group chats, especially when there’s a dreaded “green texter” (non-iPhone user), making leaving the group impossible.
• Ariel expresses loyalty to WhatsApp (ubiquitous in global sports circles), noting everyone “looks the same” on it.

8. Mark Zuckerberg & Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson: Celebrity Connections

[44:26–46:59]

• Ariel reveals Mark Zuckerberg follows and DMs him about MMA, and that Zuck wants to appear on his show.
• The group jokes about celebrity interactions, culminating with Ariel sharing a text snippet from The Rock:
  • “‘You’re a class act. And chat soon.’ I’ll just leave it at that.” – Ariel Helwani [46:42]

9. What They Found Out: Lightning Round

[47:17–49:07]

• Katie: Reminds herself which Paul brother is which (Jake = younger, Logan = older, etc.).
• Ariel: Admits he learned to be less negative about video games, especially as a social outlet for “hermits.”
• Miscellaneous: Discussion about how The Rock cryptically tweeted about Osama bin Laden’s death before it broke, leading into jokes about who’s a “class act.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If I would have stayed exactly where I was originally, I would have been pelted in the head with a water bottle.” — Ariel Helwani, [04:44]
• “It’s not boxing. You cannot call it boxing. It’s influencer boxing, a whole different thing.” — Ariel Helwani, [13:10]
• “It’s just fascinating to witness it all… it’s a whole other universe that we don’t know anything about.” — Ariel Helwani, [14:30]
• “This is just a sign of the times.” — Ariel Helwani, on the influencer boxing business model, [17:04]
• “Every night we play video games together. Every night, around the same time…” — Katie Nolan, [22:43]
• “I don't like violence, but this guy threw an energy drink at this guy’s crotch and I was there, front row seat.” — Katie Nolan, [25:29]
• “If I could go to bed [at] 9:30, I’m thrilled.” — Ariel Helwani, [29:48]
• “It’s a personal jail that you’re living in…” — Ariel Helwani, regarding the newsbreaker grind, [32:53]
• “The moment I see that someone is green texter, I feel like there’s like a block between us. Like, I can’t fully embrace you…” — Ariel Helwani, [43:16]
• “You’re a class act. And chat soon.” — Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson, via Ariel Helwani, [46:42]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Ariel’s bookcase & green screen speculation: [00:34–03:16]
• Logan Paul vs. Dylan Danis saga: [03:35–14:32]
• Influencer boxing’s cultural and economic context: [14:32–18:47]
• Red Dead Redemption and video game think piece: [20:06–28:35]
• Parenting and technology struggles: [25:00–28:35]
• Hobbies and Rocket League: [29:12–30:29]
• Modern group chat anxieties & email confessions: [31:00–44:00]
• Ariel on Shams Charania’s life & newsbreaker burnout: [32:53–39:52]
• Ariel’s DMs with Mark Zuckerberg & texts from The Rock: [44:26–46:59]
• What They Found Out Round: [47:17–49:07]

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Tone & Flow

The conversation is quick-witted, irreverent, and self-referential, with plenty of ribbing between the hosts. Despite the humor, the trio delivers thoughtful perspectives on the shifting nature of sports, tech, and communication in contemporary life. The guests bring both expert insight and personal vulnerability, making for a rich blend of journalistic curiosity, nostalgia, and cultural critique.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a microcosm of Pablo Torre Finds Out at its best: part sport documentary, part cultural salon, part group therapy for our extremely online existence. Expect honest hot takes, nerdy confessions, and great stories—plus, a few very famous names dropped.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're gonna find out what this sound is. I don't know what feathering your boost button means. I just know that someone out there heard Katie Nolan say that and liked it. And liked it way too much.

[B]

A little too much.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And shout out to that lady.

[A]

Right after this ad.

[B]

You're listening to Giraffe Kings, Network foreign.

[A]

This is where I want to start. Because Ariel Helwani, who is playing sick, playing hurt, and we thank him for doing this, is not in person with me and you, Katie.

[B]

Yeah. There's no chance that's real.

[A]

What. What's. What's. I feel bad that you feel bad physically.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

I feel good that we can now interrogate him about the real thing. I want to find out today, which is what the.

[B]

That's a green screen, right?

[A]

That's. That's.

[B]

I mean, it has to be a green screen. Too many books, and they're too small. They'd have to be very far behind.

[C]

Green screen. Look at the moving. That's not a green screen.

[B]

Yes, it does. What's that little. What's that little light flare off your left shoulder?

[C]

No, it's just because I have what you. Is there one that you want me to pull out? I'll be happy to pull it out.

[A]

Yeah. Get the. Get the Dialogues of Plato. I see it over there, hiding.

[C]

Okay, just one second.

[B]

Oh, shoot. It's real. I'm convinced.

[A]

Oh, my God. That's an actual book? Very. It's a very smart person book, too.

[B]

And you've read all of them, I assume.

[C]

This might be the best thing that I got from working at espn. It's just. It's a TV sick. So it's not a green screen.

[A]

Wait, but this is the question I have. This is the question I have.

[C]

This thing killed me right here.

[B]

I told you I saw this.

[A]

There's a reflection. If you're not watching on the DraftKings network or YouTube, there's a clear reflection from Ariel's window. Beautiful window. The sunlight of New Jersey streaming in. But those books. Like, whose books are those?

[B]

Yeah. Where'd you get that picture?

[A]

How'd you pick those books? What's the. What's the backstory on the. On the book?

[C]

That's a great question. A question that no one's asked me. Actually, one time I was on Sports center towards the end of my time there, and the freaking screensaver went on. No Cap, Jay, as the kids like to say. No Cap right here, Co. Main event. I'm more excited about the com event as my screen goes out behind me. My entire life has just been exposed as a complete fraud. Jake, can you believe this? That was very.

[B]

Oh, that's very funny.

[C]

Very embarrassing.

[B]

Very funny.

[A]

Flying toasters.

[C]

I, I, I like, I like being in, like, a warm library. I was looking for something homey. I looked at, like, pictures of libraries and whatnot. Now this, this is a library. That's the thing that I, I, I can't even believe anyone would think this would be in my house. Like, look how many books this is.

[B]

I know, but there's no, there's no, like, Dewey Decimal system. I don't see any numbers or tape on the.

[C]

If you look very closely, there's a lot here.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[C]

And so I just found the right picture that matches, I think my skin tone, my hair, my eyes.

[B]

It really does.

[C]

It just kind of fits. It feels like it's my little universe. I don't really appreciate you guys breaking kayfabe, as we say in the wrestling business. We could have just ignored all this.

[B]

Sure. Maybe you have to. Maybe you should frame out the bottom of the TV there so we're.

[C]

Ah, crap.

[B]

It wouldn't be obvious.

[C]

I'm a little bit off my game. How's that?

[B]

It's crazy that you have it so that it has to be perfectly set or it's.

[A]

I, I just like how the guy who's the best foremost MMA expert in the world is like, you know what? My audience needs to know that I love books.

[B]

I read. Yeah, I read quite.

[A]

So. I, I bring on Ariel Helwani for many reasons. He is the foremost authority on MMA and all sorts of things that I don't understand. Also because I've been obsessed. What I bring to the table today in this episode of Share and Tell is this video that I watched from my couch of Ariel on a stage in between Logan Paul and Dylan Danis. And I want to get to the genre of what they engage in these days, because that's a bigger picture topic. But the micro of this is just this press conference that devolved very rapidly and which Ariel was ahead of seemingly before anybody else. If we can watch that clip. Oh, oh. So this is Logan Paul, like, underhand chucking a bottle of something at Dylan.

[B]

Danis of Prime, I assume. I assume it's Prime.

[A]

And Katie, where would you say that that struck Dylan Danis in the, in the penis. Hit him in the penis.

[B]

Right in the penis.

[A]

That's what it looked like.

[C]

It was below the belt.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then Dylan, Danis, Ariel. How would you describe what you saw? Because he takes his microphone and then does what?

[C]

Yeah, well, I didn't see all of that because, as you can see in the clip, I got the hell out of there. And a lot of people were making fun of me. I'm like, you think I want to get, like, if there's another angle. If I would have stayed exactly where I was originally, I would have been pelted in the head with a water bottle.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I'm totally okay with being the scaredy cat who goes off. I actually thought I was very calm, cool, and collected about it. I just, like, said, you know what? I'm out of here. Walked there to the left.

[B]

I do think you did a little bit of hand stuff that.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

You did do a little bit of, like, unfair.

[C]

It's very unfair. If you roll the tape back, which we will fix my ifb.

[B]

Look, I'm fixing.

[C]

And then he hits me.

[B]

But this.

[C]

That's why I did that. Had I not been fixing my IFB in that moment, I would have never done that. I would have been unflapped in that moment.

[B]

And then you went to.

[C]

I feel like I want. I was here, and I went to here. And that's called good defense.

[B]

That's Philly shell right there.

[C]

That's good defense.

[A]

Ariel was shoulder rolling as soon as that water bottle flew across the stage.

[C]

Thank you for that, Pablo.

[A]

That said, the other verb I'd use is a scamper. There was a scampering, and it's. It felt like, Ariel, you've done this before, though, the Face off, the press conference before a fight. And. And you had veteran savvy about where you wanted to not be.

[C]

I guess, yeah, I. I wanted nothing. I'm not fighting. I'm not. I'm not courageous like them. I want nothing to do with any of that. And these two guys have had their moments. In August, they had a press conference, and cake was being thrown and water bottles were being thrown back there, too. I want nothing to do with any of this. I just do my job, come home to my family. I. There's no. There's no, like, there's no part of me that wants to be a hero and say, I took a water bottle to the face. So people were making fun of me for getting out of the way. I wish I got out of the way quicker. I went to hide behind the ring, girls. So, like, that's how. That's how I wanted nothing. I was like, there's no way they're going to throw anything at them. So let me just hide behind. I have no problem being a total coward.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

Human shields.

[B]

Yep. You're that guy in the movie that takes the woman and it's like, no, no, take her, not me.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Like George Costanza, when there's a fire in the apartment and he's like shoving over the old people. That was me. And I am totally okay with that. But to answer your question though, Pablo, he took a microphone and he nailed Logan in the head with it. Dylan did. And then he cut him open. And it was very unfortunate because, you know, there's, there's an actual fight that needs to happen on Saturday. So for a minute there, I was looking at the executives. They look like, you know, they had the fear of God in their eyes. Because now all of a sudden, this multimillion dollar fight was potentially up in smoke because of this hijinks. In the end though, it didn't matter. Everyone was okay. But that's some scary stuff.

[A]

Well, well, I want to follow up on that framing because this is a thing that had millions upon millions of dollars on the line. It's real big business now. And he also pointed out that you as a professional want to do professional things. You want to go show up, do your job, and you doing your job at like, what do we call this genre now, Ariel? This was a professional boxing fight, but this was log youtuber Influencer versus Dylan Danis. Who, Katie? I don't even know.

[B]

I have no idea who that is.

[A]

So please explain what the.

[C]

Okay, so Dylan Danis is actually an incredible Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioner. He's a black belt. He's had great success in the BJJ world. Then he met a guy named Conor McGregor and his, his profile grew a lot and he sort of adopted some of Conor's Persona. He's only had two MMA fights and they were very low level fights for an organization called Bellator. But his last fight was in 2019. He suffered a serious knee injury. He's been out for a while, but he's. What he's really good at is like being a crap talker. He's a troll. And anytime there's something on like any major Instagram or Twitter account about the Paul brothers, he would always be talking crap about them, that he would beat them up, that he would knock them out, et cetera, et cetera. He was scheduled to fight a guy named KSI who was in the main event of this event, who's Logan's business Partner in prime, who's a huge deal in England. And in January, he pulled out. A week before, at that point, his Q rating couldn't have been lower. Everyone was like, oh, my God, Dylan. Like, you talk all this crap. You didn't even show up to fight KSI the Rapper. Like, you couldn't even fight that guy. You're not a real fighter. Logan, now WWE wrestler, killing it all over the place. He's making a ton of money. He says he wants the box. He picks Dylan. When I heard about this, I actually saw Logan at an event in August and I said, why would you pick Dylan? His, his Q rating is so low. Why are you giving him this platform? He's like, it's an easy fight, blah, blah, blah. Well, what ended up happening was Dylan, being the troll that he is, took his trolling into overdrive and ended up really picking a fight with Dylan's fiance, a woman by the name of Nina, and went on this two month, like, onslaught.

[A]

This is where I, I, I noticed it was that my algorithm began feeding me this man's insane war on. Former SI swimsuit model and, and, you know, tabloid, I guess, like sub character Nina Agdahl.

[B]

And, and I know that name.

[A]

And it got, but it got, I mean, Ariel, like, how extreme did it feel relative to your expectations for all of this?

[C]

No, it got way too personal. And it was, it was gross. And he gained 800,000 followers on Twitter and all that stuff. Like, people, what ended up happening, though? Initially when this fight was announced, I was like, oh, I get it, I get it. Now. Logan's trying to knock out the guy that everyone hates to troll online. And let's be honest, Logan is polarizing and there's some people who hate him and now they're going to love him. But what ended up happening was that Dylan became the Baby Face guys.

[B]

Huh?

[C]

Babyface is the wrestling term for good guy. And what ended up happening was all these people on Twitter who are maybe sad, depressed, can't get a girl, I don't know what it is, started cheering him on to, to harass this, this poor woman who had nothing to do with this even more. So he would post these pictures and videos and it was getting really ugly. Now she's suing him and it's just like it's, it's turned into this whole thing and it got way too personal. But what ended up happening was drew a lot of eyeballs and a lot of attention to the fight. Yeah. And so when we got to Manchester last week, it felt like that was the main event. It wasn't, but it felt like it.

[A]

That wasn't the main event.

[C]

It wasn't the main event. It was the co main event. It was the second to last fight, but it felt like Logan was going to rip his head off and who could blame him? It became very, very personal.

[A]

Ariel, to your point, right, like what this did was promote the fight.

[C]

Oh yeah.

[A]

I mean, the juice that I love, I love combat sports, boxing specifically, because humiliation, ego, the ruining of a man's sense of sel is on the line. This one, it just felt real. Like the enmity, the stakes were that real. And so what happened?

[C]

Okay, so it was really real. And it's interesting that you bring up humiliation because that ended up playing a big factor in how the fight went. The fight ended up being a total bust because what happened was Dylan Danis, who hasn't fought in four years, spent the first two rounds like this. He didn't throw a single punch. In fact, he only landed nine punches throughout the entire six round fight. When I was watching it and I was commentating for Dazn, I said, you know, I said, you know what, I understand what he's doing. He's trying to tire out Logan. Logan's got big muscles. He's not a, you know, professional boxer. So maybe he's trying to let him, you know, unload everything and then he'll pour it on come the third. And in fact, his coach confirmed that that was the game plan. The problem was at the end of the second, Logan actually rocked him and I think Dylan then in his mind said, I'm not going to get humiliated by this guy. I'm not going to get knocked down, I'm not going to get knocked out. I'm going to get a moral victory and say that I survived his best shots and I'm not going to put myself in any kind of harm or trouble to potentially get knocked out by him. And then he took it one step further and just wanted to create like a moment, a viral moment, a meme, if you will. So he tried to like get him in a guillotine, he tried to do a takedown, he tried to do stupid stuff, but in the end he only kind of really embarrassed himself and didn't end up doing anything of note. And then at the end when it got all crazy, Logan's bodyguard jumped in the ring and it turned into a huge brawl.

[A]

Again long.

[C]

It ended up winning via dq. It was, it was kind of a, a mess. It was a bit of a sham.

[B]

It was a governing body of this fight?

[C]

It's a great question. This is a great question. So this was under an umbrella, like an organization called Misfits Boxing. Now this is fascinating, guys, because Misfits is. This is this boxing organization that is owned by KSI and a guy named Mams Taylor, who was once big in the music industry. And I couldn't believe I'd never been to one of their events. But to answer your earlier question, what is this? It's. It's not boxing. You cannot call it boxing. It's sort of like, you know how professional wrestling has the word wrestling in there, but it really has nothing to do with collegiate or Olympic wrestling. It's crossover or influencer boxing. You must always call it that. Crossover influencer box. It's a whole different thing. But you know what blew me away when I went there. I went, I was at Tank Garcia in April in Las Vegas. I was at Spence Crawford.

[A]

Real, real, real boxers, right?

[C]

But come the co main event those nights, there probably wasn't a thousand people at T Mobile Arena. No one was in the arena. No one cared. On Saturday in Manchester before the first fight, and I think that there were a total of 11 or 12 fights on this card. Before the first fight, it was probably 60 to 70% full. Before the first fight on the main card, six fight main card, it was 100% full. You don't see this in anything but the UFC. And where this was different than the UFC was, I couldn't believe how many young kids were there. It was more of a WWE crowd than a UFC crowd. There were 10 year olds, 11 year olds, 12 year olds with their dad. And so what I try to explain to my audience who gets so upset when they see this stuff, this is a sham. This is an example that boxing is dead, blah, blah, blah. This isn't for me. This isn't for you, Pablo. This isn't for the traditional combat sports fan. It's for me is a massive audience of young kids that love this stuff and they know all the characters and they're obsessed with them from top to bottom and they know their stories and they subscribe to them on YouTube and on TikTok and all this stuff. It's a whole other universe that we don't know anything about. And it was just fascinating to witness it all.

[A]

But the idea that we don't know anything about it, I do want to challenge you on that because it feels like the reason, partly why it's so successful is because the skill set, Ariel, the skill set of how to sell a fight, how to create juice, how to create that, like, crackling sensation of like, man, I wonder what happens. What happens in this fight we're about to see. It feels like the comment section or the. The Twitter thread, the. The world of influencer YouTubers is such a natural farm system for at least that part of combat sports. Right. The promotion of.

[C]

Is. And it uses those elements of, oh, I like this guy. I hate that guy. I'm emotionally invested in this guy. I want to see this guy beat his ass. I want to see this guy lose. But ultimately, like, they're not pro boxers.

[B]

Right.

[C]

You know, those.

[B]

There's no stake. Doesn't it feel like it's. Once it gets down to the fight, there's never a fight that you're like, wow, what?

[C]

Some of them actually, to be fair, some of them were good, but I would just never. They were novices. It was like seeing, like, there was one fight on that card, which was crazy, but I have to admit, for what it was. Was entertaining, was tag team boxing.

[A]

It was like, I don't even know what.

[C]

Two on two. It was two on two with one guy standing outside. Like, they are trying to redefine.

[B]

So they have to name it. I think they have to name it something. I think it has to become. They should call it celebrity death match.

[C]

That was a good show back in the day.

[A]

Judge Mills Lane.

[B]

Yeah. I just think that, like, I don't know celebrity in the definition of the way they use it on TV when it's a show of people, you know, like celebrity Jeopardy.

[A]

Yeah. Into the camera.

[B]

No, but it just feels like it doesn't bum you out at all. I know you said there's young kids and that it's for them. It's not for us. But it doesn't make you go like, hey, this was a real thing. And now in this time when clearly the boxing landscape and fight sport landscape is changing with, like, Showtime is now out of the game.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Doesn't it make you get a little bit, like, don't you worry.

[A]

Don't you worry that somewhere Jeremy Shap is weeping? Ariel. Just like, look, Jeremy. The idea, though, to Katie's point, though, the idea of, like, we're over indexing on sizzle and we're selling stuff. And it reminds me of, like, truly the problem sports faces macroeconomically and macro culturally, which is, wow, all these people are talking about this on social, but how do we actually make this into, like, a product? And it feels like here they're at the Very least, getting people to, to, to want to, want to know what's in the box. Right. And I just wonder, is that sustainable? Does this feel like a real business that you'll be covering for a long ass time?

[C]

No, no, no. This is not, you know, there are, there are actual people that cover this. This is their beat. This is not my beat. I kind of pop in and out when there's like a connection to the mma, you know, traditional combat world, Dylan Danis, MMA fighter, etc, you know, when Jake fight, Jake Paul fights and Anderson Silver or Nate Diaz, like that's, that's my world crossing over. But I'm not going to cover Misfits 11, their next event next month because it just, it doesn't do it for me. And there's enough MMA and boxing and other things to cover it doesn't bum me out, Katie. And I'll tell you why, because I don't feel like boxing is in the gutter. Like people like to think it's in the gutter. Say it's in the gutter. In fact, boxing has had one of its best years in recent memory with the likes of Tank Garcia and Spence Crawford and Canelo coming over and having his big fight just a couple of weeks ago. And there are big fights to come. Haney Progre in December. Like I could go on and on about boxing and so it's just, how do you want to deal? It's like, it's almost like talking to someone who writes for a major newspaper and say, doesn't, doesn't Twitter bum you out? Doesn't it bum you out that people just want things in bite sized form? Like, this is just a sign of the times.

[A]

But this is why this specific sport, if we're calling it that with scare quotes, why it's so fascinating. It's because here you can see on some level you can get the guilty pleasure of like, well, yeah, I'm going to click on this highlight of this guy getting his ass beat because I also know that guy to be a person based on all of his documented behavior in ways that are real and legally troubling and worrisome for the future of, I don't know, the American conscience as a, as regards, like how do we, how do we treat women? And there I'm just like on some level though, Ariel, I imagine a click is a click, right? Like this is, this is sort of the we will take all eyeballs philosophy of how to promote something.

[C]

Yeah. And that gets the most amount of eyeballs. But I could tell you like, there's a main event in the UFC this weekend involving a guy named Alex Volkanovsky who's like the type of person that I want my kids to be a fan of, who's a father of three, who. His biggest vice is that he likes to, you know, cook chicken wings and, and put like Cheetos around it or something. Like, the guy's like a salt of the earth mensch, you know what I mean? So there's enough out there that's good and wholesome in the fight game. You just have to find it. And unfortunately, those people typically don't make the big bucks, don't get the attention, and don't get people, you know, all crazy going, oh, my God, this is a, this is, this is an indictment on the state of the fight game. It's not. There's always going to be crazy characters. There's always going to be good guys and bad guys, and it's just up to you to find the ones that you want to root for. It's sort of like, you know, Tim Duncan was just like a soft spoken dude, right. And there are some people who appreciated that. And then there were other people who just, you know, like the bad boys more.

[A]

Oh, Ariel. Tim Duncan would be a terrible influencer.

[C]

Oh, he would be terrible. Yes.

[A]

But, you know, you know, you know, it'll be better. I have, I have solutions. Oriented. Yeah. These guys should cover themselves. Both Tim Duncan and this gentleman. Featherweight champion of the world Alex Volkanovski should walk into the ring covered in Cheeto dust.

[B]

Done. Love that.

[A]

Lay a hand on him. Try it.

[B]

Try your best.

[A]

Yeah? Yeah. Then go home and touch your couch. See how that felt.

[B]

Don't touch your eye. All right, so now that we've talked about something, you know, Ariel, that I knew nothing about, I feel like I should do my story, which is something I know that you know nothing about, which is video games based. And now I think a lot of.

[C]

People, and I'm proud of that, by the way.

[B]

I know, and I'm. And we're gonna get to that. But I feel like a lot of people have negative opinions of video games. They think they're frivolous, they're time wasters. But I read an article in the Paris Review. Now that is a publication that I only remember to check when a smart like Pablo sends me a link and says, did you see this in the Paris Review?

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And I read this really long, detailed think piece and maybe you can put somewhere who wrote it, because I do not remember Y and I want to make sure they get credit.

[A]

Hanif Abdur Raqib.

[B]

Yes. About his relationship with Red Dead Redemption, which is a video game. You and I actually have experience with playing together.

[A]

Remember the time we, during the pandemic, we both played Red Dead Redemption multiplayer aerial. This went out for a second. We both got on two different horses.

[B]

I think we've talked a million times. It's worth it every time.

[A]

And without communicating to each other, verbally or otherwise, there's a move you can do in the video game where you steal someone else's horse by jumping onto it. We both tried to steal the other person's horse simultaneously and executed like a gymnastic.

[B]

It looked like synchronized swimming. It was like we jumped. We just switched horses.

[A]

Ariel is horrified. He has no idea why we're so excited about this whole thing.

[B]

At Red Dead was like, can I punch this horse? And you would just keep punching your horse.

[A]

I was the Logan Paul of Red Dead Redemption.

[B]

But this also, again in the Paris Review, basically talked about how during the pandemic and then since, because I do think in the post pandemic world, life. So we look at life differently. Basically, how the video game taught him about life and taught him about death and about the ways that we try to control what we can control. And we try to do this complicated moral math of how we can end up redeeming ourselves in the long run. It's very good, and I recommend everybody read it, but it made me see it kind of helps. Whenever you're a video games person, you get very happy when somebody legitimizes the thing you love, and then you point to it and you go, see, it's for smart people and it's helpful. And for me, I mean, video games are a big part of my life, but I think socially, during the pandemic, just to speak to that aspect of it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

The ability to play video games online with people anywhere. So my brother, who had moved to Chicago at the beginning of the pandemic, I now spend more time with him than I ever did, because every night we play video games together. Every night at around the same time, we get on a headset with a group of people and we play whatever we feel like playing. But it has given me, like, a social aspect that I think without that, I would not. I'm not going to Chicago all the time.

[A]

Wait, wait, wait.

[C]

What?

[B]

Not calling him on the phone.

[A]

I want Ariel to begin to imagine what the activities, though, you're doing with your brother. And I know your Fiance Dan. As well as gamers, what games are you playing?

[B]

Well, there was. We went through a group of a stage of Call of Duty. They're still kind of on that. And there's a new one coming out that I have to decide if I'm going to get into or not. The thing with Call of Duty and not to get into it. I think they stopped doing this now. But every couple games was from a different develop. There were like two developers. I don't know if developers the right word. I'm not smart about video games. I just play a lot of.

[A]

It's like a boxing commission but for.

[B]

So like every other one was made with a different engine. It was like whatever, programmed differently, it moved differently, it felt different. And so there were like a couple that I just skipped because they weren't for me. But I now have to check out this. This new. Well, because it just feel. If you get real. I got really good at one of them. I think it was Modern Warfare and I got really good at it. And then the next one came out and I was garbage at it because it was just different. You moved differently. It didn't feel. It was too smooth. Cold War was too smooth for me.

[A]

But anyway, about the Cold War.

[B]

That's right. There wasn't enough. It wasn't gritty enough. But anyway, so we did a lot of Call of Duty. Then there's. But the. The main one we go to is we do the Rocket League tournament every.

[A]

Do you know what Rocket League is, Ariel?

[C]

Yes, I know about this. Isn't this like the robots that play soccer?

[B]

It's cars. It's cars that play soccer. So you know the emissions. Irresponsible.

[C]

I think it's a total waste of time. But far be it for me, a guy who likes pro wrestling to knock someone.

[B]

Hugest waste of time.

[A]

But this, Ariel, this is where I am curious. I'm also a guy who owns an Xbox, PlayStation 5, because I'm about to play the Spider man game, which comes out this week. Yeah, it comes out. Yep.

[B]

I gotta go download it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Spider Man 2. Ariel, I feel like you not liking video games, but liking all of this other stuff that is allegedly frivolous, allegedly unserious, allegedly beneath smart people.

[B]

Allegedly.

[A]

How did you. How did you avoid ever contracting this particular. Yeah, interesting.

[C]

I mean I liked, you know, I was a big fan back in the day. I played Madden, I played Mike Tyson's Punch Out, Nintendo, all that stuff. But to spend three, four hours in front of a screen shooting people. I Mean, I'm just not. I think what it comes down to is I'm not a violent guy.

[B]

You do fight sports.

[C]

What are we doing? I just certainly. What are we doing? I was hoping you were not.

[B]

I don't like violence, but this guy throw an energy drink at this guy's his crotch and I was there, front row seat.

[C]

I don't condone that behavior, by the way, but in any event, I think ultimately what it comes down to is I'm just such a busy guy and I don't have time to play Call of Duty with my friends in, you know, California or Canada or anywhere around the world. And on top of that, in all seriousness, I. It is a constant battle as, as anyone out there who has young kids who have been exposed to iPads and video games and Nintendo switches and things like that. It is a daily battle, a true battle, A battle that I don't think I ever presented to my parents when I had an Atari or N64 or anything like that to try to get them to not do that, to do something else, to play outside, to play in the basement with their siblings or whatever. So if I'm sitting there for three, four hours playing these silly games, what kind of an example am I?

[B]

That's what you need, though. You just don't have kids. That's. That's the prop. Where you guys screwed up is you procreate.

[A]

I. But I, as a procreator, as the father of a daughter.

[B]

Here we go.

[A]

Who also, who also owns a Nintendo Switch 3 1/2 file.

[B]

Is 3 1/2 crazy?

[A]

She's born.

[C]

Your daughter has a Nintendo Switch at three and a half.

[A]

I have a Nintendo Switch that she is always asking to play because I.

[B]

The way they pick it up is scary.

[A]

It is so truly like the intuitive aspect of just how to manipulate any sort of tablet and or video game system is unnerving.

[C]

Crazy.

[A]

But I do want to point out that Ariel is talking about Nintendo switches the way like Bob Ryan talks about three pointers. Like, you old ass man. You old.

[B]

It's not for you. To quote you. It's not for you.

[C]

But this is. But this is where.

[A]

This is where I think Ariel and I. I'm so glad we're talking about this with someone who is not again immersed in open world video games. Because a part of what this article in the Paris Revue.

[B]

Paris.

[A]

What that article was pointing out was like, this is a game that of course has like this, these existential themes, like the main character, who you become, he has like A morality meter where like, the more good works you do, Ariel, you're an aspirational good guy. A baby face. The more good stuff you do, the more points you get and worse stuff you do, of course, like the different sort of consequences you encounter. But the other part about this game which I find so interesting is that it's open world insofar as you can, just as the author points out, go and watch sunsets. You can go to the western side of the map.

[B]

It's a beautiful game.

[A]

It's beautiful.

[B]

Not as beautiful as Ghost of Tsushima, but also beautiful.

[A]

We can be a samurai in samurai times.

[B]

Gorgeous.

[A]

Great. But you can watch Sunset's Ariel in an open world video game. And it's amazing you can punch horses.

[C]

Listen, I don't want to be one of those guys who's like, ah, you're wasting your time. I just kind. It's not for me. I kind of feel like it's a waste of time and I feel like you're sitting there for. I, if you, if you told me you were someone who played it for 30 minutes a night.

[A]

Let's do the accounting here.

[B]

Waiting to get into a lobby itself. I know they do these things on Call of Duty where it's like, oh, a 30 minute double XP pass. But once you activate it, it goes in real time. Then you have to join a thing, a lobby. Then you have to wait for the hundred other people to join the lobby. By the time you're in, you got 15 minutes left on your pass. It's, it's, it is time consuming. Here's the thing, Ariel. I got a lot of time. Here I am at not my job work. Like I've got time. So I, I do spend a bunch of it playing video games, but I find them entertaining and also like mentally stimulating and rewarding.

[A]

And Ariel Helwani is doing what to de stress.

[C]

Honestly, it's, it's actually a bit of a sad question to ponder because I'm starting to realize that I have no hobbies.

[B]

There you go.

[C]

Whatsoever. My wife likes to watch these shows. I watch none of them with her. She likes to stay up at night and watch, you know, the. She just finished watching Game of Thrones. I'm proud to say I didn't watch a second of it and don't. I want nothing, I want nothing to do with any of this stuff, honestly. I just want to go to bed. If I could go to bed, I could. I'm. I'm very happy. If it's 9:30, I'm I'm thrilled. Yeah, I'm a bit of a loser, I guess.

[A]

You're a nine time. You're a 9:30 guy.

[C]

If. If I could go. If I could go. Can I tell you what's my. You know what? Can I tell you what's my new favorite thing right now?

[A]

Is it your sleeping cap? Is it the candle you carry with you on the way to bed at 9:30?

[C]

Warm cup of milk? My new favorite thing right now. And this isn't like a crazy answer or anything, but I've really fallen in love with soccer. I adore soccer.

[B]

Huh.

[C]

That's become, like, my escape.

[A]

I mean, you love soccer so much. What if Katie Nolan and I told you that you could play soccer, but as a car.

[B]

You could fly through the air? I'm learning how to fly. I'm not very good at it.

[A]

Rocket League has flying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So there's.

[B]

You get to a certain level where I always say, I'm a flightless bird. I do a lot of ground work, which you're familiar with. My ground game is strong. And so, like, there'll be guys that are trying to fly, and the ball will be up here, and they'll try to fly it and they'll miss. And then who's waiting there for it? Me. Put it in the net. That's right. But now I'm trying to learn how to fly, and it's very hard because you have to feather your boost button, which gets your car to fl. It's a whole thing. I can show you, Ariel. I can show you later.

[C]

No, I have no. My kids played it. Like, actually, my kids, who are 11 and 9, they've outgrown that game.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

They don't even know.

[B]

This feels mean. This feels just.

[C]

No, I'm just saying, like, I was like, oh, this is cool. You like the. The robots hitting the ball. Great.

[A]

I don't know what feathering your boost button means. I just know that someone out there heard Katie Nolan say that and liked it and liked it way too much.

[B]

A little too much.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And shout out to that lady.

[A]

Oh, progressive. I see what you did there.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I think too much screen time is ultimately bad for your brain.

[B]

But it says a guy who's what, Never on his phone. You want me to think you're never on your phone?

[A]

There's a guy who's sitting in front of a giant screen with face.

[B]

With a screen behind him. Yeah, you are on a screen with a screen. You are in a screen sandwich, my friend.

[A]

All right, we have.

[C]

Well, Guess what?

[B]

What?

[C]

That's a great transition right there. Can I take that transition? Come on.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Says a guy professional on his screen. Yes, that, that brings me to the, the article that I wanted to present to you guys. A, a fascinating profile on a young man named Shams Charney. Of course, every sports fan out there knows who Shams is. He is one of the foremost scoopers, news breakers in the world of the NBA. There's only really two, right? There's him and Woj. It's a story in New York magazine and it's entitled Scoop Dreams, written by Reeves Weidman. And it's a fascinating look at a young man who isn't even 30 years old and who has carved out quite the niche for himself. And the thing about this, I mean, there's a, there's a lot to unpack regarding this story. There's a part. Look, I, I, I, I, I very much relate and sympathize to the story, if only because for a very long time people used to refer to me as the Woj of mma, meaning I would break a lot of stories. And some of those stories got me in trouble and.

[A]

Right.

[C]

I didn't want them out. Blah. I have really removed myself from that world because it is intoxicating and it is like this never ending hamster wheel. And ultimately I felt like I was too obsessed with the phone, too connected to the phone, too obsessed with checking the phone in the middle of the night that I miss a scoop. Did I not miss a scoop? And life is too short for that nonsense. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[A]

When did you, when did this realization hit? Because Sham Sharania, for, for the context of the story, which is really good. In New York magazine, he's talking about how his FaceTime average screen time a day is 18 hours.

[B]

That's crazy.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that he sends more than 500 texts, calls and emails a day.

[B]

I want to die a day.

[A]

Suffocating to compete, Ariel. To compete in the never ending rat race of scoops and news breaking.

[C]

Yeah, I don't think that's healthy. But he's a young guy, he doesn't have a family, and so I understand why he's doing it. I don't begrudge him. I was trying to do the same thing in the world of, of mixed martial arts for a very long time. But ultimately, to answer your question, like a couple years ago, I just felt like it was unhealthy and I felt like it was just a never ending cycle of, okay, you break this story, no one cares 10 minutes later, and then it's on to the next one. And it just. It wasn't fun anymore. It was making me hate my job. And. And, you know, it made the UFC not like me. It made other people not. And it's just like, this is not the way to be. And I would say it ashams, like, he. He has obviously created a great lane for himself. His whole relationship with Woj, I find to be very bizarre.

[A]

Star wars going on. Yeah. Like mentor, pupil, betrayal, allegedly. Don't talk anymore. All that.

[C]

Don't credit each other, never reference each other. Don't acknowledge each other's existence. Like, there's nothing that seems healthy about that.

[A]

No.

[C]

But, you know, they're the only two. And I can't imagine 18 hours in front of the phone speaking from a guy who, by the way, averages like 10 or 11. So I'm not. I can't be too. You know, we're all up there. Yeah.

[A]

We're all. We're all. We're all ashamed of our fire screen.

[B]

I would never say mine out loud.

[C]

I didn't know if that was bad.

[B]

No, it's.

[C]

It is.

[A]

It is.

[B]

But we're all there together, so we're not here to judge.

[C]

He's on a different. I've. I've stood in front of these. I won't name names, but I've stood in front of these quote, unquote newsbreakers, and they can't. They can't not look at their phone for more than a minute.

[B]

I mean, you see them on tv, like in. In the NFL. Like, we were never. From just being on tv as little as I have. You never have your phone out. But when you see Schefter, he has to have his phone out. And sometimes he would get up and walk away to take. Like they are crazy. Like, they're just not addicted, but, like, they are tethered to their.

[A]

I think it's addicted to addicted, but also incentivized, because the other context for the story is that these are enormously profitable jobs. Like Sham's doing. This is not. He's not. He's not stupid. He's doing it because this is a niche that is increasingly valuable. He gets paid a lot, a lot of money, as does Woj. Even more so as a Shefter. Even more so. So the idea, Ariel, of, like, this is a way to do sports media. I read this story, and I think to myself, I. I don't want any part of this job, it seems. And again, maybe that's a place of Privilege. Because I have this weird studio that I sit in where I talk to Katie Nolan and pay her $0. But it's amazing. It's amazing how little I envy the success story that objectively this is.

[C]

Yes, you can make a lot of money, but let me tell you from experience, and it was never at the level of shams or Woj. It's a personal jail that you're living in because it's not just about breaking news, this and that. It's a, you know, the relationships and, and, you know, it's trying to get. Trying to beat this guy. And then the. The fear. Sometimes I would break a story and my heart would be pounding so much. The fear. Potentially getting something wrong is so. It is. Is truly terrifying. Now proud to say, still batting 1,000 babies.

[A]

Yeah, buddy.

[C]

Wrong. But, I mean, I did see, I. I think one of the dudes that we're talking about did tweet that Dame was going to Toronto and then deleted the tweet. And you can't. On the Internet explicitly. Yeah. Let me tell you something. That is not a good feeling. He. He must have wanted to crawl into a hole and, and never come out. It's just, it's. It's unsustainable. And so for someone who is as young as him, it's great. I don't know how wo does it. And there's a reason why more people don't do it. It is truly an unsustainable and I think an unhealthy and unhappy way to live your life.

[A]

I feel like we're all the. My favorite meme on the Internet is. And it's my favorite because I relate to it, is the meme is the animated gif of that raccoon who's holding cotton candy who then dips it into water because that's what raccoons do with their food. And then looks away for a second and looks back and it's completely dissolved. And it's just like, oh, this is what making content is. But the newsbreaker guys are that to the even more extreme extent, I think.

[B]

I would constantly be anxious that I'm being fed bad information in an attempt to change a narrative on something to help somebody save money on a trade, or I would always be worried that somebody was giving me bad information I don't trust enough.

[C]

You obviously have to double or triple check. So that was a big thing because people have their own agendas. But the thing that I don't get is like, okay, obviously, look, as you said, Pablo, they make money off of it. But there are times where they're literally 30 seconds apart with almost the same wording. It's almost like they're copy and pasting the same. So where.

[A]

Where's, Where's.

[C]

Where's the joy in that?

[A]

Well, also, you know, like, you. You put news in scare quotes. I co. Sign your scare quotes. It's absolutely an occupation that should exist. I have no, I'm not trying to get on a journalistic high horse here, but just the comedy of everybody's trying to get ahead of a press release by five seconds. That's the win. All you gotta do is be the nanosecond guy, literally the person in the comment section saying first. That is the win. It's gonna come out 99% of the time. It's gonna get released. You just gotta be the first guy with the tweet.

[C]

And, and obviously there's. There's a demand for it like that. We live in a world where it's okay to be on television being paid by your employer, and it's more important to send something out on Twitter as opposed to delivering that information. Imagine Walter Cronkite back in the day tweeting that JFK is dead as opposed to delivering it to the world. Obviously, it's not as important, but it's just. It's absurd to me that we've reached that point. Now, I'm not trying to be, you know, sanctimonious here because I used to kind of reside more in this world, but ultimately, as a. Like a. From a personal fulfillment standpoint, a cardiac stand that too. I. I derive a lot more joy from getting big interviews, doing great shows, having a personality, things of that nature. And I would worry for Shams because if he continues to do this, like, it's. It's just unsustainable. It truly is. And I don't think it's very healthy.

[A]

Can we do the thing where we get real uncomfortably invasive?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And we. So he has 72, 443 unread emails.

[B]

Yuck.

[A]

So what do we got? What you got, Ariel? What you got?

[C]

Right now?

[A]

Yeah, right now. Okay, Right now. Let's go.

[C]

Right this second.

[A]

Let's reveal. We're all gonna go around.

[C]

Amazing that you're asking me this question. Right now. I have 57, and it drives me insane.

[B]

I have seven.

[C]

I have insane OCD. My goal at the end of the night is to get to zero.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[C]

The people who have emails like that.

[B]

My screen would drive you crazy.

[A]

I mean, I'm currently Gmail. I've. I've. I've managed this better. I'm currently at unread 3282.

[C]

Wow. I couldn't live. What about you, Katie?

[B]

Who me? Oh, just at a. Cool. 22,922. A lot of that is stuff like Grubhub being like we've got your order and I just never open it or delete it. I try to every day now. I try to go through and I delete all the ones I don't need. But there's like years of me not doing that that I. That.

[A]

But. But the idea. Wait. The idea of keep your phone out. The idea of your phone as a prison. What are you imprisoned by these days?

[B]

Group chat. Group chats?

[C]

Really?

[B]

I. I am techn. I mean actually if you want to get specific. Right now I'm in a group chat that involves people that are not on an iPhone, which means that you do not have the ability. You do not have the ability to click on the group and go leave this group chat. You are. It's a prison. I am stuck in the group chat. The only way out is if I message the person who put me in it and specifically ask to be removed.

[A]

You can't pull a parachute cord.

[B]

No. Because it's not just an imessage group chat. So I'm stuck and the person who put me in it is like a. Is like a person I don't want to make mad. And so I just mute it and then I have these constant messages and they're just hard to keep up with. And then if you mute them and they're people you do want to talk to. Like I read an article in something Wall Street Journal. I don't know, I read a lot. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. About parents.

[A]

The Journal had an article about group chats.

[B]

Yeah. This may be relevant to you. I know you have children of parents in group chats and they're finding them suffocating of like other parents or of like the, the PTA or the.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Does anybody know if. If we're allowed to bring peanut products to school? They're just constantly texting with these tiny questions and they said they feel this need to scroll through them just to make sure nobody texted about an emergency or nobody texted something specifically related to their child. And it's just these. I just think group are. Are like a. They're bordering on like taking over our lives.

[A]

It's anxiety inducing. And I'm not good at them.

[B]

I'm not good at them. I Don't. I'm not. I don't need to. You don't need to talk to me every day. I don't have anything to update you on. I promise I'll let you know when I do. Or maybe I won't.

[A]

I feel like. So Ariel is also Canadian, and I feel like your politeness. Ariel, this is your inbox Zero guy. I have a feeling that the way that you hold yourself to account is probably different than. Than me and Katie.

[C]

Oh, I have to reply to everyone. Actually, what annoys me more about the story that you just told me was the fact that some people or one person isn't on an iPhone. I hate the green texters.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The moment. The moment I see that someone is green texture, I feel like there's like a block between us. Like I can't fully embrace you. Like, I feel like the waves of communication just aren't going to be as great as if I could see that.

[B]

But then don't you feel icky? Because then you're basically saying that everybody has to be an Apple product user, and then you just kind of feel like you're. Yeah, but it just feel like. Shouldn't people be allowed to use. What? Shouldn't these tech companies get together and make it so everybody's blue? Can't they figure it out?

[C]

But that's like some sort of utopia.

[A]

Yeah. I hate the green text. I hate them more than I do.

[C]

I prefer to go to WhatsApp. Do you know WhatsApp?

[B]

I don't use it, but I know of it.

[C]

Oh, you don't use it?

[B]

It's just another text message app. I don't need another text. I don't have that much to say. And if I do, I'll put it on a podcast.

[C]

So you know what's interesting? Most of my group texts are on WhatsApp and in Europe up, because, you know, I cover sport that is very European. They. No one uses iMessage. Yeah, there are some people who don't know. They only use WhatsApp. So it's. It's a whole different thing. But at least in WhatsApp, you can't tell if someone is iPhone or Android or whatever. So everyone looks the same on WhatsApp. I like that. So that's to your point, shouldn't everyone look the same?

[B]

Owned by Facebook.

[C]

I get a new number. I don't do. I don't do Facebook.

[B]

It's owned by Facebook. WhatsApp is owned by Facebook.

[C]

Oh, it's owned by Facebook, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Yes. Yes, yes, yes. This shout out to my boy, Mark Zuckerberg. We're. We're close now. I don't know if you guys know this.

[B]

I bet.

[C]

Big MMA guy.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Wait, you really are close now.

[C]

Well, closest baby.

[A]

Wait, so we have, we have, we have, we have. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We have. We have. We have. On this show, Papa Tory finds out covered. Mark Zuckerberg and his MMA bjj. Specifically Mike Dylan. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. He. He's definitely an Ariel Hawan. He's a Hilwani guy. Guy. No doubt. If Zuck is into this sport, that is the face. The Canadian inbox 0 aspirational face of. Of his favorite media member. I'm. I'm. Yes.

[C]

I'm wearing my own merch.

[A]

You are.

[C]

Just in case you were wondering. Katie.

[B]

That's okay.

[C]

I know you were judging.

[B]

I wasn't. You don't know anything about me.

[C]

No. Okay. Wow. Sorry. Sorry. I don't want that smoke. I don't want that smoke. I'm sorry.

[A]

Has. Has Mark Zuckerberg texted Ariel Helwani? Yes or no?

[B]

Absolutely yes.

[A]

Yes or no?

[B]

He whatsapped him text.

[C]

No. Do we DM. And is he an incredibly fast DMer?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, have I asked him to come on my show to talk about his love of mixed martial arts and jiu jitsu?

[B]

Of course, yes.

[C]

Has he said that he would like to come on?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yes. Actually, the way I found out that he followed me was he commented on one of my posts, but I at the time, wasn't following him. My friend was like, do you realize that Mark Zuckerberg is in your comments? I was like, wow. Then I went to the profile. I was like, follow back. I saw the follow back up. That felt cool.

[A]

And Ariel Helwani's beleaguered heart was a flutter.

[C]

Listen, I'm not a name dropper. These things don't impress me. Sure, you know, the Rock and I text from time to time, but it's just.

[A]

Because what's it like texting the Rock? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[B]

It's got to be the most.

[C]

D and I are.

[B]

It has to be the most boring experience. There's no chance Dwayne is putting on paper anything interesting.

[C]

Dwayne is the man. Are you talking. What? Salt of the earth.

[B]

Yeah, but there's no.

[A]

Can you wait? Can you. Can you. Can you go into your phone right now, Ariel, and just give us three words from any text exchange you've had With Dwayne.

[C]

This one popped up. You're a class act. And chat soon. I'll just leave it at that.

[B]

Jesus.

[C]

I'll just leave it at that. I mean, he said it right there. I have it.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

I mean, who am I, you know, who am I to disagree?

[A]

Class act. A class act.

[B]

Yeah, I agree.

[A]

Soon.

[B]

Soon. Let's chat soon.

[C]

We'll do it again soon.

[A]

So. So at the end here, Ariel, what we do at the end of how Latoria finds out is we go around the table. Katie hates this part because it always catches the.

[B]

I'm ready this time.

[A]

Oh, you are?

[B]

I'm ready.

[A]

We go around the table and we say what we found out today. We've shared a lot of things about ourselves and each other. Invasively, publicly. And Katie Nolan, what did you find out today?

[B]

I found out today for the fifth time, but hopefully this time I will retain it. That Jake is the younger one. Logan is the older one. Jake was on Nickelodeon. Logan filmed something he shouldn't have filmed and put it on YouTube. Ask me that next week and I. I hopefully will still have it, but I don't think so.

[C]

That is what I found out that I want to retain. And that's all you.

[B]

That's 100% coming from you. So thank you very much for giving me that information.

[A]

Ariel, what did you learn?

[C]

I guess I learned that I shouldn't be so negative towards video games. That for hermits, it could be a great thing.

[B]

He had me and then he lost me. I was feeling my heart was warmed and then it went cold.

[C]

Social.

[B]

I don't leave my house. Leaving your house is stupid and overrated. Come at me.

[C]

You know, for the antisocial, it could be a nice way to interact with others. And I shouldn't be so negative towards people who spend four to five hours or so.

[B]

3, 4. 3 or 4?

[C]

3 to 4. Playing some fictitious video game, as opposed to, as the kids like to say online, touch grass. Wow.

[B]

There's no grass. I live in New York City, so my options are scarce. And therefore I played Zelda to 100 completion.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Oh, you did the new Zelda?

[B]

Yeah, I got all those Korok. Every single one of them. There's a thousand, I believe. Yeah, I had a lot of time.

[A]

Last question. Has the Rock ever texted you about how he knew that Osama bin Laden had been assassinated before anybody else?

[C]

Really? Is that a thing?

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

Yeah, you know the story. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

I didn't know that.

[A]

The Rock tweeted out like a mysterious Very coy message about, like, can't say what it is, but great news for our country. God bless America.

[B]

Yeah. Like, proud to be in America or something.

[A]

Yeah, proud to be in America.

[B]

And it was, like, minutes after we found out that Osama bin Laden was dead.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

Wow, he had the scoop. I didn't know that one.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You kids stay on the Internet too long, you're into these guys.

[B]

This guy, I thought I was looking forward to hanging out with him.

[A]

Just got word that will shock the world. Dash. Land of the free, home of the brave. Damn proud to be an American. Exclamation point. You know who wasn't a class act? Osama bin Laden.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

They would not chat.

[B]

They would not chat soon. Absolutely not.

[A]

And so we reached the end of yet another week at Pablo Torre finds out, and I want to point something out. David Sampson, our arch nemesis, says something very nice about us on whatever the we call Twitter now. And so I just want to point out that, David, we appreciate you and we will never stop rubbing it in your goddamn face how much we're finding out all of the time because of Michael Antonucci, Ryan Cortez, Sam Dawig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Loman Rachel Miller Howard Ethan Schreier Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Chris Tominiello Studio engineering by RG Systems Post production by NGW Post and our theme song, of course, by John Bravo. We will talk to all of you next week.