Podcast Summary: Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: Share & Tell with "The Last Dance" Director Jason Hehir and The Charlotte Wilder Effect
Release Date: August 1, 2024
Host: Pablo Torre (Le Batard & Friends)
Guests: Jason Hehir (Director, "The Last Dance"), Charlotte Wilder (Writer/Journalist/Bostonian)

Episode Overview

This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out centers on two main threads: the serendipitous connections between sports, media, and relationships, and the lasting impact of "The Last Dance" documentary. Host Pablo Torre is joined by Jason Hehir, its director, and Charlotte Wilder, whose work played a surprising, pivotal role in Jason’s personal life. The group explores stories behind the making of "The Last Dance," the unintended cultural ripple effects it caused, and shares a heartfelt, funny look at how a sports blog post indirectly led to Jason meeting his future wife.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jason Hehir’s New Parenthood (00:33 - 02:17)

• Jason introduces his seven-week-old son, reflecting on the late arrival of fatherhood in his life.
• "I was an uncle five times over...47 years old, so all of my friends have been down this road. I figured, like, I have this figured out." — Jason Hehir

2. The Charlotte Wilder Effect (04:35 - 13:15)

• Charlotte Wilder’s Article as the Catalyst:
  • Jason recounts how an SB Nation article Charlotte wrote about Georgia football fans at a New York bar (“Watching the National Championship at a Georgia Bar is What Heartbreak Looks Like”) became his icebreaker to connect with a woman at the gym—now his wife, Erin.
  • Memorable moment: Charlotte discovers for the first time, live on the podcast, that her writing was critical to Jason’s romantic life:
    • "This is the most meaningful thing... I’ve always been like, yeah, okay, here, I’ll be a clown in a bar and write about it." — Charlotte Wilder (12:44)
• Butterfly Effect in Action:
  • Pablo coins it "The Charlotte Wilder effect," tracing how a seemingly trivial sports blog post paved the way for a marriage and, humorously, for "The Last Dance" being as good as it was due to Jason's improved well-being.

3. Behind the Scenes of The Last Dance (16:48 - 49:25)

• Origins and Omnipresence:
  • The “industrial complex” of Michael Jordan re-emerged due to the documentary’s popularity during the pandemic when the world was starved for content.
• Saturday Night Live Parody (17:00 - 22:00):
  • Jason perceives his SNL parody for the first time and laughs about becoming a meme:
    • "The slowest four seconds of my life. I was like, I know you’re gonna bleep this but what the [bleep] is going on?" — Jason Hehir (19:16)
• Documentary’s Global Impact and Memes (22:02 - 26:10):
  • Discussion of how minor characters—like Michael Jordan’s security guard—became pop culture memes unexpectedly.
  • Obama’s “Former Chicago Resident” title sparked online debates but was intended as tongue-in-cheek:
    • “That was so tongue in cheek. It was so funny. FORMER CHICAGO. It’s like, this guy loves basketball and that’s what we’re talking to him about.” — Charlotte Wilder (24:28)
• Pandemic Timing and Cultural Reception:
  • Jason notes the documentary’s “forgiving audience” due to COVID lockdown, making it a uniting event:
    • “If this came out in a time of non-pandemic, regular level cynicism...I think there would have been a lot more vitriol.” — Jason Hehir (25:36)
• Michael Jordan’s Rarity and Gravitas (27:25 - 28:26):
  • Charlotte: “He’s so real, but he’s also so behind his own myth... the best thing to do is not say anything and not disturb it.”
• Isaiah Thomas, Scottie Pippen, and Dissatisfied Bulls (28:48 - 40:36):
  • Jason reflects on players who felt misrepresented and details the iPad reaction approach to interviews: “handing NBA legends a tablet with their life on video... like giving a toddler a toy on an airplane.”
  • Sheds light on missteps (e.g., unintended portrayal of Jerry Krause).
  • “The one thing that the NBA pushed back on...was a clip where Scotty...said, I’m gonna stick a cattle prod up Jerry Krause’s butt...I wanted people to see what this guy was going through day in and day out.” — Jason Hehir (33:15)
• Aftermath: Bulls' “No Bull” Response Tour (37:17 - 38:21):
  • Pablo and guests discuss how some Bulls used documentary backlash to launch their own tours, noting the odd cycles of criticism and monetization.
  • "You have given a lot of people a second wind to make money off something here. Like, that doesn't happen if the Last Dance..." — Charlotte Wilder (37:48)
• The Phrase “The Last Dance” Goes Viral (40:38 - 44:44):
  • The documentary title has crossed into pop and sports culture, even getting misapplied (e.g., Venom: The Last Dance, youth sports teams).
  • Jason reveals he didn’t come up with the title, credits Phil Jackson’s “Last Waltz” inspiration, unsure if Phil even knew the real name of the Scorsese documentary.

4. Notable Production Anecdotes

• Phil Jackson Slammed the Door (45:16 - 46:44):
  • Jason describes showing up at Phil Jackson's Montana home for an interview, only to have the door closed on him because Phil had no idea about the scheduled documentary shoot.
  • Phil Jackson built the log cabin seen in the film with his own hands.
• Emotional Reflections on Impact (47:14 - end):
  • Jason and Charlotte exchange gratitude about the unforeseen ways their work and lives have intersected, with themes of serendipity and the ripple effects of creative work.
  • "You never know who is watching and you never know the connections that you're making that you're completely unaware of." — Jason Hehir (48:49)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On finding out Charlotte wrote the pivotal article:
  “This is the most meaningful thing… that’s the sweetest thing. Oh, thank you for telling me that.” — Charlotte Wilder (13:09)
• On being parodied on SNL:
  “The slowest four seconds of my life…I literally stood up and said, what the [bleep] is going on?” — Jason Hehir (19:14)
• On Michael Jordan’s gravitas:
  “He’s so real, but he’s also so behind his own myth... like the sightings of the Loch Ness Monster.” — Charlotte Wilder (27:33)
• On the cultural impact of The Last Dance’s timing:
  “We literally had a captive audience globally.” — Jason Hehir (26:13)
• On unintended consequences:
  “The Splag Nation effect has led to this baby being born.” — Pablo Torre (12:58)
• On post-documentary blowback:
  “People thought the filmmakers hate Jerry Krause and made him the villain. That was not the intent. That’s my misstep.” — Jason Hehir (33:15)
• On career and fate:
  "You never know... what connections are made that you never even were aware of." — Jason Hehir (48:49)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:33: Jason discusses new fatherhood
• 04:35 - 13:15: Jason reveals Charlotte’s role in his relationship origin story
• 16:48: Transition to discussion about The Last Dance’s cultural reach
• 17:00 - 22:00: SNL skit and reactions to becoming a meme
• 22:08: Obama “Former Chicago Resident” meme
• 25:32: COVID-pandemic’s impact on the documentary’s reception
• 27:25 - 28:26: Michael Jordan’s mystique & speaking out
• 28:48: Isaiah Thomas, Scottie Pippen, Krause, and interview tactics
• 33:15: Details on the Krause family & editorial regrets
• 37:17: The “No Bull” Tour response by ex-Bulls in Australia
• 40:38: Meme-ification and title proliferation of "The Last Dance"
• 45:16: Phil Jackson’s door slam & log cabin anecdote
• 47:14 - end: Reflections on serendipity, legacy, and gratitude

Tone & Style

• The episode is candid, humorous, and imbued with both self-deprecation and genuine gratitude. Jason and Charlotte share vulnerable stories, Pablo injects witty asides, and everyone is affably self-aware about their roles in both sports media history and each other’s lives.
• The guest conversations flow naturally between sports minutiae, big-picture legacy, and intimate personal moments—perfectly modeling the “beyond the game” theme of Pablo’s show.

Bottom Line

This episode isn’t just for fans of "The Last Dance" or sports documentaries; it’s an engaging meditation on how our creative acts ripple through the world in unforeseen ways, changing personal and cultural history. Whether it’s a blog post that leads to a marriage or a documentary that changes how we meme and remember a global superstar, it’s all here: hilarious, poignant, and richly detailed.

For anyone who missed it, this episode is a poignant, behind-the-scenes journey through sports, media, and the unpredictable journey of life’s connections.