Share & Wink & Tell with Mina Kimes and Dan Le Batard

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Share & Wink & Tell"

Podcast: Pablo Torre Finds Out
Host: Pablo Torre (A), with guests Mina Kimes (B) and Dan Le Batard (C)
Date: October 25, 2024

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Episode Overview

This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out takes the signature “Share & Tell” format to new heights, blending sharp sports journalism with playful debate over modern etiquette. Joined by Mina Kimes and Dan Le Batard, Pablo explores a revealing business practice within the Dallas Cowboys and then launches an impromptu “Draft” of new post-pandemic etiquette rules. The conversation is fast, funny, and unfiltered—with the trio dissecting fame, business, football culture, boundaries, and the awkwardness of everyday interactions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Dallas Cowboys' Outlandish Business Model (00:27–15:17)

• Inside Jerry Jones' Cowboys Tours:
  Pablo introduces a recent ESPN piece by Kaelyn Koller that exposes how the Cowboys allow public practice facility tours—sometimes letting fans observe players and coaches up close, turning the workplace into a “zoo”.

  • "[The players] think it gets in the way of actually, shockingly, winning football games. And it's just such a revealing story about the business of football as practiced by the most successful businessman in football." – Pablo (03:17)

• Players' Perspective:
  Mina shares Dalton Schultz’s sentiments of relief upon leaving the Cowboys:

  • “He says he's kind of glad he's no longer there, because it's a zoo.” – Mina (03:55)
  • Schultz describes one-way mirrors and fans behaving like spectators:
    • “It's literally, it's a zoo, dude. People tapping on the glass, trying to get people's attention as they're doing, you know, power cleans or whatnot.” – Schultz via Mina (04:09)

• Business vs. Football Culture:
  Dan and Mina spar over whether Jerry Jones’ approach is truly good business.

  • Dan: “No, there's Jerry's world. He gets to make the rules on commerce, and if you want to be a customer of his, you will do so under his conditions...he's the carnival barker, he's the zookeeper…” (04:59)
  • Mina challenges the idea that this spectacle adds real value:
    • “I could buy an NFL team in the 1990s, crawl into a hole, never come out, and I would have instantly made a bazillion dollar return.” (06:02)

• Jones’ Motivation:
  Highly personalized, Jones seemingly craves attention and celebrity as much as profit.

  • Pablo recounts a story about Jerry Jones greeting him by name after being prompted by his PR handler:
    • “He doesn’t need to do this. But the way that he is wired is he actually does want attention and media to care about him.” (13:06)
  • “There are lots of NFL owners that are greedy and morally compromised. But in terms of the sheer desire and the thirst for that attention...I’m going to miss this guy on that level because they don’t need us.” – Pablo (14:00)

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2. Etiquette Draft: Ranking New Social Rules (15:17–44:39)

How It Works (15:17–15:54):

Each host drafts modern "rules of etiquette" (from a viral list of 150+) and debates their veracity, practicality, and awkwardness.

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Notable Draft Picks & Debates

• “If you’re a dating adult, you should own lube.” (16:01)

  • Dan is forced to confront this rule and reflects on his own experience, acknowledging he had never considered it:
    • “I had 20 years of not knowing that I was supposed to be doing something that I was not doing.” – Dan (18:04)
  • Mina and Pablo gleefully pressure Dan for more commentary, kicking off the episode’s running “lube” joke.

• “If you’ve met someone and they clearly don’t remember your name, say ‘Hi, we’ve met, I’m [Name].’” (18:10–22:22)

  • Pablo advocates reducing social awkwardness, while Mina expresses concern about shaming people:
    • “I never say it… because I don’t want to make them uncomfortable.” – Mina (18:48)
    • “This is a rule... about the concept of shame...my soul leaving my body in that moment, floating.” – Mina, after recounting an uncomfortable encounter (21:29)

• “Don’t tell people they look like other people.” (22:43–24:41)

  • Caution urged—even if the comparison is meant as a compliment, it’s a social risk.
  • Pablo and Mina recall comparing Dan to Hurley from Lost on air:
    • “You guys are always...I’ve gotten Flounder from Animal House. I have gotten Chris Penn. I don’t remember the one that you’re about to hit me with.” – Dan (24:14)
    • "It was Hugo from Lost, Hurley." – Mina (24:20)

• “Always wink.” (25:54–29:01)

  • The group explores the mysterious, potentially dangerous world of winking as a form of social charm.
  • Mina attempts to wink, with everyone critiquing the resulting “sassy” attempt.

• “If your friend is dating someone you object to, only one shot to speak up.” (26:40–28:43)

  • Dan shares Lamar Odom’s advice:
    • “You all get together, you pick the best guy. You tell your friend once, one time only, on behalf of him, one time only, and you get out of it.” (27:44)

• “Find your signature sign-off and stick with it.” (29:54–31:24)

  • The trio riff on sign-off etiquette:
    • “As always, Pablo Torre.” – Pablo (30:36)
    • “That is, that's called an ethnic wink, by the way.” – Pablo (31:24, after Dan says he signs off with “gracias”)

• “If someone mispronounces a word, and you know what they meant, move along.” (32:43–34:24)

  • Dan admits he corrects people, believing he’s being helpful.
  • Mina’s infamous “foul/foal” horse mix-up is referenced.

• “Hot gossip only goes into a voice memo, never into text.” (36:09–36:38)

  • Mina admits to dropping gossip as voice memos to avoid a digital paper trail.

• “Never answer a compliment with a compliment.” (39:32–40:27)

  • Dominique Foxworth is cited as enforcing this rule:
    • “Take a compliment. Hangs up. And he hangs up and he’s...you didn’t mean that.” – Pablo (39:43)

• “If you’re a boss and see employees in the wild, greet them warmly but briskly.” (42:15)

  • They discuss boundaries between work and personal life.

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3. Memorable Moments & Banter

• Running “lube” joke:
  The group's discomfort with Dan's “lube” admission is revisited multiple times, always as a comedic callback.

• Live etiquette discomfort:
  The winking contest (29:04–29:21) and the group’s troubled attempts at “ethnic”/cultural sign-offs highlight the difference between theory and practice.

• Honesty About Compliments:
  Dan is playfully pressured to offer better, more moderate praise:

  • “You are the greatest cheerleader on earth. But a little. Sometimes a simple, 'hey, that was good' will suffice.” – Mina (44:39)

• “Shame” is a recurring theme:
  Many rules circle back to how we experience embarrassment and cause awkwardness for others.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Pablo on Jerry’s motivation:
  “He actually does want attention and media to care about him. And what I'm expressing here is there is a last of his kind dynamic to Jerry Jones.” (13:10)

• Dan on the Cowboys spectacle:
  "He's the most powerful man in that sport, even though he hasn't won anything meaningful in 30 years....he's the ringleader, and he gets to make the rules on how the animals are treated." (04:59)

• Mina on football vs. business:
  "If you believe as I do, that all of this is actually counterproductive to running a proper football team...then yes, I think you're actually eroding the long term value of this franchise in pursuit of these small gains." (10:14)

• Dan’s ‘ethnic wink’ email sign-off:
  "That is, that's called an ethnic wink, by the way." – Pablo (31:24)

• On hot gossip:
  "Hot gossip only goes in the voice memo, never in text." – Pablo (36:11)

• On correcting mispronunciations:
  "I will always make the correction, but I do it...because I think the person would want to know..." – Dan (33:05)

• Dan, learning about feedback:
  “I just learned that my most confident friends… at making amazing things… too need compliments…” (44:01)

• Pablo, full circle to discomfort:
  “Just, in other words, just a little bit of lube. Just a little.” (44:55)

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Important Timestamps for Segments

• Dallas Cowboys “zoo” story: 00:27–15:17
• Etiquette Draft begins: 15:17
• Dan’s “lube” rule pick: 16:01
• Forgotten names etiquette: 18:10
• Looks Like game & winking: 22:43–29:01
• Friends’ relationship interventions: 26:40–28:43
• Social sign-offs: 29:54–31:24
• Correcting words & pandemic memories: 32:43–34:24
• Gossip rules: 36:09–36:38
• Compliments & positive reinforcement: 39:32–44:39

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Tone & Style

The tone is bracingly honest, self-deprecating, and highly conversational. All participants are comfortable both interrogating and embarrassing each other, bringing out memorable moments of humor, candor, and reflection about the weirdness of fame, sports, and human interaction.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This installment provides both a sharp examination of sports business folly and a hilarious, insightful look at the rules (and exceptions) governing how we relate to each other. The episode is a testament to how the right mix of smart guests and mischievous format can yield both memorable debates and genuine personal revelations—all without ever losing its playful, knowing edge.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

[B]

That was a horse.

[A]

Right after this ad.

[B]

You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network.

[A]

I feel like we should do a sports topic, but Also we prepared 150 or so scouting reports on rules of etiquette that all speak directly.

[C]

I can't do this. I can't. I, I got, I've got in front of me 500 papers and I want to talk about everything on all of these lists.

[A]

What would you prefer?

[B]

I, I'm down to either. I mean, the football story isn't really a football story about the Dallas Cowboys, but it is certainly much more connected to football than the etiquette stuff.

[C]

No, I do, I wouldn't knock out the Cowboys story. I'm just, I was more asking you, how do you guys want to do this? There's too much.

[A]

Okay. All right, so what we're going to do, okay, this is, this is, this is me getting this together. We're going to do the first story because this is a show that does stories in a share and tell format. And then we're going to do a draft and you're gonna have to stick around through this very professionally executed tease and break to find out how that goes.

[C]

We're on the air.

[A]

The first story I brought you is a story about etiquette, actually, and what's okay to do inside of a football facility. And for those who are just unfamiliar maybe with the culture of football, when I think about the culture of football inside a practice facility anywhere, I think about paranoia and confidentiality and privacy. Right? These are state secrets. These are billion dollar enterprises all competing to get tiny edges over each other. And what the Dallas Cowboys have been doing, as reported exhaustively and very cleverly by Kaylin Koller over on ESPN.com is invite people onto tours multiple times a day, every day. Mina of the Star. Right, so this is the Cowboys practice facility. No other team does it like this. They will do tours of stadiums. They'll do tours, but they will avoid deliberately the prospect that maybe you'll run into in this case, in this story. On a 10am tour on a Friday before the Cowboys play the Lions, you'll see Dak Prescott three feet away from you in a hallway. You'll see Micah Parsons working out. And Jerry loves this. Of course, there are fees and prices. You can buy these tickets on SeatGeek. Actually, that's the way Jerry Jones is doing it. No one else does it like this. And it turns out, spoiler alert. The Cowboys players, especially the former ones, we should say most clearly on the record, they think it gets in the way of actually shockingly winning football games. And it's just such a revealing story about the business of football as practiced by the most successful businessman in football.

[B]

So this is a great story. I really recommend people reading it because Kaelyn has so much great detail. And she gets Jerry to talk about it, and at one point he says even negative attention. And he kind of can tell the direction she's going here about these tours is good because it's more publicity for the tours, which is kind of Jerry Jones's business philosophy in a nutshell. All attention is good attention. But in this case, it is, as you said, something that has really bothered the players. In fact, I first learned about the tours and the beginning of the year. It was actually in March of this year when Dalton Schultz, who was a Cowboys tight end, now he's with the Texans. And this is mentioned in the story, he says he's kind of glad he's no longer there, because it's a zoo.

[D]

They've got a one way mirror for people to, like, look at. Like, it's literally, it's a zoo, dude. People tapping on the glass, like, trying to get people's attention as they're doing, you know, power cleans or whatnot.

[C]

And it's just.

[D]

It's different. And I mean, that's the brand that they've built. That's, you know, you know, that's what Jerry Jones likes. That's the way they run things. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just, you know, you don't realize, like, how many, you know, eyeballs and how. How much that can maybe, you know, distract from, you know, stuff just in the locker room, being in the facility until you go somewhere else.

[B]

That's the phenomena that Kalyn describes. I mean, there's. There's no world in with this, in which this is a defensible way to run a workplace, any kind of workplace.

[A]

It's crazy. I didn't realize it was like this. It seems crazy to me.

[C]

Oh, but wait a minute, but wait a minute. When you say there's no world where this is an acceptable world workplace. No, there's Jerry's world. He gets to make the rules on commerce, and if you want to be a customer of his, you will do so under his conditions. All of us can object to it, but Jerry gets to make all the rules because Jerry has all the power. Jerry has all the money. He's the most powerful man in that sport, even though he hasn't won anything meaningful in 30 years. And largely, his team is as famous as it is and gets the ratings it does without excellence, because he knows it's the zoo slash circus, and he's the ringleader, and he gets to make the rules on how the animals are treated like. And I don't like to say it that way, but if it's the circus, he's the carnival barker. He's the zookeeper and the employees. No, you will not kneel before a flag. You will not. No. And if I want to tap on the glass and have my customers watch you work out, to do that, too.

[B]

So here, this is what I want to actually get into, because the. I said it's indefensible. The defense of it, the one that Jerry Jones would certainly mount and the one that I think some folks around the NFL might agree with, is that it's good for business, right? There's no such thing as bad publicity. Exhibit A. Look at this team. As Dan said, they're still the, you know, the biggest franchise in America. There's unbelievably successful, even without recent football success. I would push back on that. I actually don't agree with the idea that he's some brilliant businessman, because, first of all, I could buy an NFL team in the 1990s, crawl into a hole, never come out, and I would have instantly made a bazillion dollar return. So there's that. Right? The other thing is, because the Cowboys were good in the 90s and it was such a formative period for the NFL and for fans, I think a lot of this fan base is legacy from that period. I don't really buy the idea that all of this circus and hoopa around the Cowboys are dramatically increasing the value of the franchise the way that I think some people do. I. Am I wrong in positioning it that way?

[A]

No, I think you're. I think that's the argument that Jerry himself is making, unapologetically. By the way, what I will point out is that Jerry Jones is. Is not just quoted in this piece in a. In a really, like, almost nostalgically classic way in which an owner used to engage a reporter.

[C]

Dan, I did this with Jerry in his office 25 years ago, where he does the reporter thing of putting his hand on your knee and talking you through. Yes, I'm in the entertainment business, son. And I'm here to, you know, do press conferences and do it my way and be the owner on the sideline. No one else does that. I. My team, my toy. I will do whatever it is that I wish with it. Part about this that gets objectionable for me is he allows the customers an access to private time because employees work for him and he's in charge of the. Of the entire business and he doesn't have a union that he answers to.

[B]

It seems very clearly bad, but I want to push back, Dan, on this idea that it's good business. I keep going back to this. Like, I understand in Pablo, you said, like, the Jerry Jones was very forward looking when it came to promoting this business in the 90s. Dan, you talked about, you know, interviewing him and it was very deliberate and no doubt it was effective. I do not think you can credibly argue that this kind of thing is actually. I understand that he says they made like what, $10 million a year off of it, I'm sure, whatever. But I do not think that these, like, small incremental gains he gets, whether it's attention or tickets sold, are actually good for the Dallas Cowboys as an organization in the long term. I feel like that it's actually kind of a dated way of thinking about this team.

[A]

Yeah, I want to clarify how the money is made here. Cause Mina cited, you know, like an eight figure return on this stuff. $40 a tour, $70 for, quote, an authentic letter of fandom from Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, plus a souvenir tote, plus a pin, plus a coupon for the food and you know, the gift shop, $90 as an add on for a Q and A session with an AI version of Jerry Jones.

[B]

That was a actual plot line in the Righteous Gemstones.

[C]

Hey, y'. All.

[B]

Boy, I've missed worshiping with you. I'm so glad we get to do that today. Do you remember that? Like they tried to sell them on making a hologram.

[C]

But let me, let me ask you, Mina, can I ask you before you continue, Pablo, if he can make $10 million, are you saying that it does more damage than $10 million? If we're doing this as simply math, business, calculus, he's just arguing. And you're saying what? You're gonna lose free agents, you're gonna lose humanity. Your players are gonna not play for you during tough times because they don't like to be this, you know, this much of a commodity.

[B]

I think that, yeah. If you believe as I do, that all of this is actually counterproductive to running OPER football team, and I genuinely believe it is. After hearing these players and seeing the product on the field and looking at what they do in free agency or what they don't do, then yes, I think you're actually eroding the long term value of this franchise in pursuit of these small gains. I really believe that.

[C]

But. But Mina. Forgive me, Pablo, but Mina, if the goal's not winning, if success is measured in dollars and the standings are incidental, the Cowboys are an afterthought. If we were doing just their record the last 30 years. He's doing this from a playbook that might be dated, but it ob. Works like winning isn't the. The point isn't winning. It's. He's got the most valuable franchise. That stadium is the biggest on earth. He makes a ton of money and can push around Bob Kraft, even though Bob can keep Bob Kraft out of the hall of Fame, even though Kraft's the one with all the recent titles.

[B]

What I'm disputing is the idea that the value of the franchise is in any way tied to any of this bull. Pablo, do you disagree?

[A]

Here's the argument that I'm gonna make, which is that this Mina, I think, has a case of thinking like an actual football executive here. But. But I'm going to give a wrinkle there, right? Because if you're a football executive, it's very clear that this is not additive. You don't need the $10 million. You'd rather have players regard your organization as. All of these sources that Klin talks to, on the record and off, are saying they. They are enjoying not being with the Cowboys because no other team does this. And it's actively getting in the way of trying to win football games, which is the whole religion of, again, a football person. The business here that I think should be rooting for Jerry to remain stuck in this playbook is the media. Like, it's good for our business. Like the. The case I want to make is that Jerry Jones, the guy who still is living in a version of reality where he's the guy who put cameras in the draft room and the cameras have resulted, as he says in the story, in ratings that exceed the World Series, right? Jerry is also the guy, as he also famously did this month, who is still making local radio appearances with paid people who are like, you know, again, on his payroll, essentially. But these are antiquated things that all read down to the idea of if you're going to run a circus, you are going to get attention. And the people who benefit more than the team at this point because they don't need it are the people who talk about this stuff and actually I think as I said earlier, are nostalgic for an era when athletes and especially owners needed to be thirsty for your gaze. And that is, that is absolutely changed.

[B]

Otherwise the media benefits, sure, but the person who benefits the most is Jerry Jones. I think that's why I get like, my hackles go up a little bit when he's painted as this like brilliant businessman. And there's this idea like if he didn't do these tours and he wasn't in the front of the press so much, would anyone care about the Dallas Cowboys? He does it because he likes being a celebrity. He's not big braining everybody, right? Like, it's not like, oh, the Dallas Cowboys are only valuable because unlike every single other team in the NFL, their GM never shuts the hell up. He does it because he loves being famous. That's it.

[A]

I do think the wiring of this man is the actual answer to why all of this is happening. Mina, you know, said as much, right? He's addicted to celebrity and the spotlight. And just to give you a sense of this, right, this is both a look at me, Louie, and I will take the sounder. I deserve it. But I like Dan also had an. There it is. I like Dan, had an encounter with Jerry Jones when I was like a fact checker, low level reporter, quarter at Sports Illustrated. I was assigned to do a story on Miles Austin, right? So I'm in the building and I am in. They put me in like post game in Jerry's box. And I see Jerry walk up and he's led by Rich Dalrymple, his now former PR right hand man. And Jerry does the thing that you've seen any like politician do before a diplomat. He leans over to Rich Dalrymple who covers their mouths with like a leather folio. And clearly Jerry is asking him, who, who the is this guy? What's his name? And Jerry Jones I've never met before, says Pablo Welcome. And I'm just like, he doesn't need to do this. But the way that he is wired is he actually does want attention and media to care about him. And what I'm expressing here is there is a last of his kind dynamic to Jerry Jones. There are lots of NFL owners that are greedy and morally compromised. But in terms of the sheer desire and the thirst for that attention, I'm going to miss this guy on that level because they don't need us. And that's the last guy who's pretending like he does.

[C]

So can you Help me how we're do. Explain to me how we're doing the draft. Are we selecting the ones of these that we want?

[A]

Yeah. So just the way this is going to work, we are now in the etiquette war room. Okay, so there are 150 or so of these rules, post pandemic rules as laid out by the cut. And I have prepared. I have a big board. I have takes, I have prospects that I think you guys love, that I hate. I've gamed this whole system out. So I think, Mina, we should start with you.

[C]

Well, I want to go first.

[B]

Dan just wants to go first.

[A]

He was trying to sneak in. Fine. Let big Dan Lebatard have the first overall pick.

[C]

If you're dating adult, you should own lube.

[A]

That's a good point.

[B]

Go on. You can't say that. You can't just drop that and then skulk away.

[C]

The problem I have is that I have 100 of these or more in front of me, and I think all of them are great. You may catch callously cancel almost any plans up until 2pm I love that one as a discussion point because I don't know the right time to call someone or tell them I'm not coming to something. It's acceptable to tell any kind of lie in order to leave a drinks date. Any lie.

[A]

You're drafting, like, three things.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

I've got a hundred of them. I want to take a hundred of them.

[A]

You don't have enough lube on your takes right now. You're just ramming this right in.

[B]

I want to build a time machine and go back to before I heard both of you say the word lube in front of me.

[C]

I know, I know. I did that purposefully, but it's unpleasant. I agree. I mean, would you like to start over? Because I'm looking at this and I've got numbers.

[B]

You can't. No, no, no. You can't drop that and then smile and back away and let us wiggle with discomfort.

[C]

Okay. No, I've never.

[B]

You have to now give an opinion about that.

[C]

Okay, so before reading this as number 18 out of the hundred or something others that were here, if you're a dating adult, you should own lube. It is not something that I had ever considered in any way before this that people were sitting around thinking about, talking about considering. I am not someone who at any point in my life and I did some dating, obviously between 30.

[A]

I regret Nina making him answer this.

[C]

Between 30 and 50 had ever considered the idea of I should Know this, that this is something that I should consider. So Dan can't even make.

[A]

For those not watching on YouTube for the drafting network, Dan made zero eye contact.

[C]

I had 20 years of not knowing that I was supposed to be doing something that I was not doing. That is.

[A]

With the second overall pick in the etiquette draft, Pablo Torres SELECTS Rule number 23. If you've met someone and they clearly don't remember your name, this is on my list too. Hi, we've met. I'm Pablo. I'm. Fill in your own name. We gotta help each other out in these dynamics, right? Like, there have been so many times, Mina, where you just gotta say it so that you avoid the just mutual awkwardness.

[B]

Wait, you agree with this?

[A]

I think you gotta say it. Yes, yes, yes.

[B]

I never say it. If I meet someone and they don't remember me, I never tell them that we've met before because I don't want to make them uncomfortable. And I also feel like, what's to gain from that? Like, what is the benefit of pointing out?

[A]

Because they're gonna end up dancing around addressing you without your name. And you can take and look, granted, this is also against type for me.

[B]

It's great to see you. That's what I say. It's great to see you. Okay, so, Dan, weigh in here because we're on opposite sides of this.

[C]

Oh, I've made a mistake though. Here. I see. This is when people feel like I should know them because I get some of this right. I've got the crappiest form, like you guys do the crappiest form of the crappiest celebrity, where actually you guys probably have a better form of it now because you're still on television. But what would happen to me a lot is that people would meet me and then meet me a second time and clearly expect me to remember the second time I'm meeting them. So when I would say, nice meeting you the second time, I'm now in a conversation for a long time about how I didn't remember the first time I saw them. They've already met me. And so it took me about 15 years to learn what Mina has already learned, which is good to see you. And, and just sort of that. That's good enough. Good to see you.

[A]

Good. Okay. So what I fully agree on is that it should always be see instead of meet that. Totally, totally. But in terms of like, hey, you know, you don't remember me. I do wanna. I, I feel obliged to say, like, yeah, hey, we've met on Pablo, you know, like, there's a way, There's, There's, There's a way to do it. The, the parallel rule that I will say before I hand it over to Mina for her pick is I, I.

[C]

Think she's still mortified by you. I don't think she wants to leave here because.

[A]

No, it's mortifying. Look, the rule. The, the, the, the. The other trick.

[C]

You're making someone feel bad.

[B]

You' actually very surprised, Dan, because I thought Pablo was, like, very aligned. We've talked about this on this very show, how we are constantly living in fear of making other people uncomfortable.

[A]

This is the product of a lot of work that I've done on myself. Truly telling people we've met.

[C]

This is going to be a positive. This is going to be you boundary setting. Okay?

[A]

I exist, and I want you to acknowledge that you have met me existing before. The other rule, though, in terms of, like, meeting people, is just always asking for their name and then saying it back to them at the end of a conversation. I've done a lot of work on that because the payoff guys is tremendous. It's tremendous.

[B]

This isn't about the name. This is not about the name. It's the shame. This is a question. This is a rule and a question and a topic that is entirely about the concept of shame. Because when you do this, you risk shaming the other person. I once had someone do this to me very aggressively, and when we read it, I was like, oh, hey, great. Glad we worked together. This person, he said to me, yeah, we've met multiple times. Sorry, it was multiple times, I guess. Anyway, am I going to come across the villain of the story? I just realized. Okay, sorry, but let me finish. He said we've met multiple times. Guess I wasn't important enough for you to remember. I. My. I wish you could have seen, like, my soul leaving my body in that moment, floating.

[A]

Show me the lie. Show me the lie, Mina.

[C]

That is exactly what Pablo is doing more efficiently. He's doing the. The delivery is the same. It's got an undercurrent.

[A]

That's why it's rule number two.

[C]

We've already met before. Yeah, it's such an. It's an.

[B]

I never do it to people for that. I'm just so afraid of.

[A]

We all deserve to. We all deserve to. Mina.

[B]

I want to talk about this one because it's something that we have discussed a lot, that we both do a lot that we do it for content. It's Rule 39. Don't tell people, they look like other people.

[A]

This is on my list. Also.

[B]

This is similar to the one you just discussed in that there is a very fine line and there's an incredible element of risk when you do this. So I do it when I believe it's flattering. However, there's not universal agreement about what a flattering comp is. So I could say to Pablo, hey, Pablo, you look like the Filipino guy in Ms. Rachel. He might be Filipino. I think he is.

[A]

It is, in fact, a Filipino guy in that show. He has a good bone structure, actually.

[B]

I think that's a flattering comp. So I feel comfortable saying it. Daniel, would you. Do you do that? Because you do it in work all the time.

[A]

The Looks like game. You made a whole franchise about it.

[C]

Yes. And so I. Yeah, I like Looks like. But I can see where it might be dangerous around. Certain. It is a dangerous game. That's right. The Looks like it's a dangerous game. I agree with that.

[B]

Pablo and I are responsible for this. Probably the single most insulting Dan comp of all time during the Pandemic era hq. Do you remember this, Dan?

[C]

I. I mean, you guys are always.

[A]

I don't. Yeah. Honestly, we've insulted Dan so much over Pandemic era HQ that I don't know if I remember this.

[C]

I've gotten Flounder from Animal House. I have gotten Chris Penn. I don't remember the one that you're about to hit me with.

[B]

It was Hugo from Lost Hurley.

[C]

Oh, yes, I remember this now. Yes. Yeah, this is a good one. It's a good one. They'll put it up on the screen and everyone will agree with this. And I deserve this. And yes, it's a good one. I agree.

[B]

So as far as we'll put a bow on this unflattering comps, you can do it to yourself, right? I can't tell. Pablo, you look like xyz. I don't know. I can think of something, but I can say because it's funny that I look like a young Joseph Gordon Lovett. And I can say that. Or Tim Lincecome, although it was Tim.

[A]

Lincecum is dead on. Noted half Filipino Tim Linceum, incidentally, for those accurate keeping score as big basics.

[B]

But if you say that, that is crossing the line. All right, Dan, you're up next.

[C]

Forgive me, guys. Forgive me, because I've been listening to you, but I am just going through all of these because I want to do so many of them. So just for your perusal, I'm going To say white people should always clearly pronounce 50 Cent. He's not fitty to you. I'm just going to throw that out there. We're not going to do that one. Do not touch the small of my back to move around me at the bar. If you're ugly. If you're ugly was a qualifier I wasn't expecting on that one. This one, I was stunned by number 38. Always wink.

[B]

Just that. Always wink that.

[C]

Yes. Wink at people as a way to be charming or. I just didn't think that always wink would be on there. This one, Mina, I've done before. Number 35. Don't address two or more women as ladies. I. I have done that before. That is something I've done. I'm gonna say, like, I'm. Like, I'm a gentleman. Like, I'm Sean Connery. Ladies, like, in. In. In a different time, I have done that. I'm ashamed to say it. And this one, I loved this one. If your friend is dating someone you seriously object to, you have one shot to sit your pal down and say, well, I want to get your opinions on this, but we'll tell you the most amazing story about it one time. Because people listen to our show in a way that is intimate, I got advice. I. I got. A listener of ours came up at one of these settings and just simply asked me, what do we do? We need advice. A group of us don't like the woman our. Our friend is about to marry. It' six dudes that are asking my opinion on this. I don't know how to answer their question, but the next day on the radio show, we had a sports guest call in, and we asked that person the question, and he sliced right through it. He's like, you all get together, you pick the best guy. You tell your friend once, one time only, on behalf of him, one time only, and you get out of it. It was as if this person had considered this and had it happened to him. And that person, Lamar Odom, went on to marry a Kardashian. And it happened before all of that. And so I submit to you guys, this seems like great advice. Would you agree to it?

[B]

That's incredible.

[A]

First of all, the intervention, the attempted intervention. Mina.

[B]

Yeah, I've been part of one. I had a really good friend who was dating a really horrible woman. Like, possibly a compulsive liar, very, like, rude. Nobody liked her. And all of, I would say his four best friends at the time, which I was one of them. We had, like, a big meeting it was like a, like a mafia like meeting of the four families where we discussed how do we do this as a group, how do we do an intervention? And we actually came to a different conclusion, which was that individually, each one of us had to say something so that he would feel the way.

[A]

Oh my God.

[C]

Wow. That is a burial. Like you are changing that person's relationship. Like you're changing that way that the person how they feel about someone. What? Right, Like, I mean, it was that bad. But if you have, if you have multiple friends coming to do this, it's going to actually impact the relationship or some of the relationships.

[B]

I don't think I've ever had that happen to me. No one's ever tried to intervene with any of my relationships.

[A]

I have another draft pick that I'm going to segue to because this is also about how. Stop trying to wink. It's not working. It's really not.

[B]

You might not be able to always wink.

[C]

Let's see what we've got here. She doesn't know how to do it. She's doing it incorrectly.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think she's supposed to lay.

[B]

Hold on, hold on. No, left eye's better. So I can't wink with my right eye. Look, I have to say something sassy. Like, nice work.

[A]

Oh my God.

[C]

That was sassy. That qualifies as sassy. Nice work. With a Pablo, it's never too late to send a condolence note. Never too late. I disagree with that.

[A]

That's not what I was gonna draft. Stop trying to bring us to grief. Okay? Jesus.

[B]

You found its way there.

[A]

Mine was gonna be like. Oh, wait, what was it? Oh, no. Yep, yep, yep, yep. The emotional truffle pig has found a draft pick. That's what that was. Mine. Mine was in the realm of gestures. Find your signature, sign off and stick with it. Right. And there's a follow up addendum to this, but if you can't find your way, consider quote, as always, signed your name. I like that. So the thing here to point out is that everybody is trying to strain to say all the best or what, you know, thanks, exclamation point. I might steal. As always. I like. As always.

[C]

That's so pompous.

[A]

Come on. As always, Pablo.

[B]

That's right. Can you imagine emailing us and being like, yeah, guys, let's. I think Jerry Jones story is a good idea today. Let's draft some etiquettes. As always, Pablo Torre.

[C]

I'm trying to think, Lena. I like the sound of the, of the Most pompous way. You can say nothing about yourself. He. The regards. I mean, yes, regards is heavy handed here, but you guys like always cheers.

[A]

You like cheers, Dan, you like that.

[C]

Better than as always, I go gracias. I just say. I just say thank you. Like as always seems. Come on.

[B]

Do you do entire emails in English and then just sign off with gracias?

[C]

Sometimes, yes. Sometimes I do that as the punctuation.

[A]

That is, that's called. That's called an ethnic wink. By the way.

[B]

Can you imagine if I emailed everyone and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been looking at run past concepts. RPOs are really up.

[A]

Yeah. Can we skip the lube topic, Pablo, I love that.

[C]

I pray please make that something that. Come on, make that more popular than as always, as always has had. My guess is if you look this up, as always has had a hundred year run as being used that way. Let's do this. Let's change the way the culture works.

[B]

By the way, speaking of like, you know, crisscrossing nationality, whatever, I don't like it when Americans say cheers. I think it's like, you're not British. You know, like, come on, I'm with you on it. It's like my other incredible pet peeve when white people, of which I am half one, cheers, saying salute somewhere. The outkick interns who are being assigned to watch every minute of these podcasts just got to minute 45 and they're like, she said white people.

[C]

I have one here at number 26. If someone mispronounces a word but you knew what they meant. Move along. I will always correct people and I feel like an for it right now. As I tell you, I will always make the correction, but I do it, I genuinely do it because I think the person would want to know so that it doesn't keep happening to them later on. You didn't get them.

[B]

I was trying to remember if you ever. Because I say stuff around all the time.

[A]

Yeah, I was going to say Mina. Well, yeah, I mean, Dan, speaking of pandemic era hq, remember that show we did where you looked like Hurley from Lost and Mina did not know what a baby horse was called and she kept on referring to it as a foul.

[B]

Yes, should be pronounced foul. That was a horse.

[A]

A foal. A foal, not a Mina.

[B]

Look at what I'm saddled with here.

[C]

Yes, we got stuck there. Yes.

[B]

Are you gonna roll the footage of that, Pablo?

[A]

We already did.

[C]

Come on, keep up with the times, Mina.

[A]

Come On. Oh, God, Jesus.

[B]

I learned a lot of my vocabulary from books.

[C]

Don't shame me, Mina. Matt Kelleher still makes fun of me because one of the first times I appeared on pti, I referred to it as an athlete having a stylistic athlete having a certain panache. A certain panache instead of panache.

[B]

Did you see that video of Aaron Rogers saying word about something like the new ma of the season?

[A]

I was like, that dude. That dude just read that off of his wor day calendar is what that felt like.

[B]

He really leaned into the Frenchiness. That's what makes it sing, you know?

[A]

He did. And admittedly, I was grading him on whether he pronounced it correctly and he did.

[B]

He did. Yeah. It's just very funny when people lean into French words. All right, Am I up?

[A]

We.

[B]

Okay. Oh, so many.

[C]

You look like Michelle. We. What?

[B]

What? Not at all.

[A]

Obviously, that's a compliment in my book.

[B]

Okay. There's so many of. These are. Actually, now that I realize this, a lot of mine are similar. And it's interesting because the. A lot of ours are similar. I had. If someone starts telling you a story you've heard before, you have two seconds to tell them.

[A]

Yep. So again, similar on my big board.

[B]

Underlying tension here, which is shame. Right. Like, you don't want to shame the person telling the story, but you also don't want to have to sit through the same story.

[C]

That's right. It depends on how long the story is.

[A]

This. This I'm not good at. I've not done nearly enough work on myself to get to this point. I am the person who will happily grin and nod through a story I have heard a half dozen times before.

[B]

Same.

[C]

I want to be told. I'd want to. If. If I've told you a story before and I'm in the middle of telling it again, I would want to be stopped before I tell. Like.

[A]

Like I would want that help suppressing so many just spicy, spicy comments about.

[B]

You observing that I have let Dan do this a lot to me.

[C]

I hate that. I hate that. I hate that I'm that person. I'm. I. Now look, because you're being polite. You haven't helped me be a better person because I'm in reruns with you.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[C]

Oh, boy. I hate that I'm in reruns.

[A]

This does remind me, though, of another rule that made me think of. Of Mina, which is she is the only person who practices this in my life, which is that it's rule number 129, hot gossip only goes in the voice memo, never in text.

[B]

I have a lot of people by life who do this, so I don't know, I might just know more. No, no more paranoid people.

[A]

Or you're just a hub of gossip, which is also.

[B]

I do love. I do love gossip.

[C]

I don't think people know this about you, Mina. I don't think people know that you're a gossip. I think they'd be surprised to learn that you're a gossip. Gossip.

[B]

Pablo, you're a gossip too. You love.

[A]

I'm a reporter.

[C]

Oh, wow. He really just did that to you. He hides his every idiosyncrasy and flaw under some shield of nobility.

[B]

Do you guys trust someone who doesn't gossip?

[A]

Ooh, there should be a rule that is never made.

[C]

You should have waited.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

I thought, I thought you were going to end that with the wink. I thought that you were going to be sassy. You were going to be.

[A]

No, it is, it is. It is true. Like, at this point with Mina, I had just. And both of you guys, honestly, we just have like Kompromat on each other. So we're all just like mutually assured destruction. Like if one of us betrays the other, we're all.

[C]

She had it sold, though. That would have been so memeable. Her confidently hitting the wink at the end of that. I've got one more. I threw away all my hundreds of papers. I don't know which rule it was, but you're not allowed to talk to your animal in your private voice in public. How do you guys feel about this one? Because I talk. I keep that private. That's not something anyone has ever seen from me publicly.

[B]

Well, now I'm paranoid that I've told this story before, but are you aware of the Lenny voice on my show, Dan?

[C]

So I am not for the first.

[B]

Well, thanks for listening. For the first.

[A]

She only does it every single episode.

[B]

I don't do it every episode. The backstory is so like many people, I have a voice that I use to talk to my dog. It's high pitched. I used to end every episode where Lenny got one question and it was a rude. A purposefully rude question, and I would do it in that voice. And there were pretty offensive questions, to be honest. The one that broke me was I had Matt Hasselbeck on the show. Okay, last question. So like I said, I'm going to read this in my dog's voice. I can't believe I'm doing this. I apologize in advance. Please don't. Yeah, okay. This is A question for my dog. Was Super Bowl XL the worst officiated game in NFL history or just one of the top five worst officiated games in NFL history?

[A]

Can I go back to that Dallas.

[B]

Philly game that I saw the other night? Huh? The just utter shame and self loathing that washed over my body. I could never do it again. And it is the number one complaint I get about my podcast is bring back the Leti voice, people. In fact, I've been told I silenced Letty.

[A]

Yeah, we got to bring that back. We gotta bring.

[B]

It's weird that it's such a high pitched because Lenny's from Alabama, so you would think I would do one of my spectacular southern accent. But before she can do that, I'm.

[A]

Gonna go and draft another thing which is never answer a compliment with a compliment.

[B]

Yeah, I don't. I. I'm totally down to do that.

[A]

So this is. So this is the influence of Dominique Foxworth, who has policed me. I used to do this. Dominique would call me up and it's a big thing. When Dominique says something nice to you and he says like, nice show. I just listened to it and I say, oh, yeah, man, I also liked what you did. And he's like, take a call. Hangs up. And he hangs up and he's. I'm like, what? I. I just wanted to also say something nice to you. And he's like, that was obviously something that you manufactured because I said something nice to you. You didn't mean that. And this rule number 24 is entirely about how someone. Yeah, like someone had told her, I like your pants, and they panicked and said, I like your glasses. And it was just totally, obviously just the thing that no one actually believed.

[B]

And it was Dominique Foxworth could stand to read some of These, including number 122, don't ever message someone K. So.

[A]

That'S on my list too.

[B]

Dominique.

[C]

Yeah, he values authenticity, though. Are we in agreement that he values, like, he doesn't want that compliment? Why would he want your bogus compliment? That was just said. Maybe he gave you a compliment. No, but he. But it. It might not be bogus. But if it's. I believe Pablo to be a charming bull, and I don't believe Dominique has got any time for to be deceived by your charming bull.

[A]

This is leading me to a corollary, which is rule number 123. And Dominique violates this too. If you're someone who types ha ha ha to things that are actually funny, don't just say ha when they're clearly not.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that's a big Dominique one.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause we're noticing the demotion.

[B]

I have never gotten more than two ha's max from him. I don't think I've ever gotten an LOL, an LMAO, a 3HA. Never.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why. That's why I've gone. I've gone to. I've gone to Lowell. I'm just a LOL guy now because.

[B]

Has ever expressed amusement over.

[A]

Yeah. Dan never. Dan never gives it up on text. He never.

[C]

Are we thirsting for Haas from Dominique Foxworth?

[A]

I'm thirsting for he's and for Haas.

[B]

Let me look at my text with him.

[A]

That sounded weird. Let's cut that first part. I'm thirsting for Haas.

[C]

No, I don't think they're gonna cut. You should be. No, it should stay in. You are thirsting for he's and for ha's. I am. I'm not. Good. I have realized with positive reinforcement.

[A]

Oh, this leads me to a thing I also thought about with Dan. This was a Dan rule where it was number 100. If you're a boss and you see your employees in the wild, greet them warmly but briskly. Like, say hello.

[B]

Five minutes of engaged conversation from Dominique. Not a single hahaha. Dan, can I give you a little bit of feedback on that one? The positive reinforcement?

[C]

Yes, I would like that. And I would also like for you going forward, anytime. I'm two seconds into a story you've already heard before, I insist you stop me on the spot.

[B]

It doesn't happen that often. I feel like, Pablo, you can tell me what you think. There's a vast spectrum when it comes to positive reinforcement and compliments, from radio silence to, you are the greatest person to ever do this, and you deserve millions and millions of dollars and you really live on both ends. And maybe you could live in the middle a little bit.

[A]

Dan is either always recommending you for a job you didn't ask for a recommendation for, or what I'm saying is.

[B]

Like, how about some.

[A]

Yeah, it's radio silence.

[B]

Yeah, just some intermediate praise.

[C]

What have I learned this week? What have I learned? We've done this forced and inauthentic. At the end of these podcasts every week where Pablo is assigning, you have to have learned something instead of, we just made 50 minutes of television.

[A]

Correct.

[C]

I just learned that my most confident friends are who I view as the best friends that I have in this business at making amazing things that they too need compliments in a way that Dominique Foxworth does not. He does not care about your HA's if they are insincere. I don't know if he cares about your compliments that much, if he is sincere. But you just taught me that I have to be better at something. That I'm just recently realizing that I have not been good at positive reinforcement. So thank you for that. I will be better about expressing to you and to others how much I admire the work you guys do and the things that you are.

[B]

No, no, no, no. Just gently. You don't have to be super effusive. That's. It's not that I want to be clear. It's not that you don't do it. You are the greatest cheerleader on earth. But a little. Sometimes a simple, hey, that was good. Will suffice.

[A]

Just, in other words, just a little bit of lube. Just a little.

[B]

I knew he was going to bring that back. I knew it and I dreaded it this entire time.

[C]

I'd forgotten all about that. I'd forgotten all about that, you know?

[A]

So, Mina, what did you find out on Pablo Torre? Finds out a show about what? Finding stuff out.

[B]

I'm not sure I can wink.

[A]

Yeah, it does look like you almost had it. Like a medical thing.

[C]

An allergy. Yeah, an allergy of some sort. Like you're. Yes, either. And you're allergic to. To bees and peanuts.

[B]

It's 2am looking across the bar and this hits you. What do you do?

[A]

Oh, my God. I'll tell you what I do. I'll tell you what I do. Oh, don't. Don't try. No, no. This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Metal Arc Media production and we are produced by Walter Averoma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Dawig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, neely Loman, Rob McRae, Rachel Miller, Howard Ethan Schreier, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Chris Tominiello and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RG Systems. Our sound design by NGW Post. Our theme song, as always, by John Bravo and we will talk to you next time.