← Pablo Torre Finds Out
Pablo Torre Finds Out
Stephen Glover on His Secret Star Wars Movie, Inventing Memes with Donald, and Inspiring Atlanta
00:47:18
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.
- [00:07]
B
People are like, places like, man, that show Atlanta sucks. You know? Like. Like, I got to sit around long enough to, like, see the full, like, spectrum of it. We're like, man, who wrote this stupid episode? I'm like, man, that was. Didn't feel that long ago I was at a Golden Globe party dancing the bad and bougie. You know, like.
- [00:27]
A
Right after this ad. You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network. What are you allowed to talk about when it comes to your actual profession right now? The one you are currently on strike from?
- [00:52]
B
I think everything is fine as long as I'm like.
- [00:55]
A
As long as. So I can say, like, steve, congrats on you and Donald doing this new Lando show, which I read about.
- [01:01]
B
Oh, boy, you shouldn't have said that.
- [01:03]
A
But that's. That's. That's literally. That's the extent of what you can say, is that? All right, so that is the voice, the already regretful voice of my friend Stephen Glover, the genius screenwriter and rapper and producer. The guy who may be best known as the head story editor of Atlanta, the TV show which won pretty much every award in Hollywood and is also one of my absolute favorite shows of all time. Steve and his brother Donald are now making a widely reported and super highly anticipated new Star wars show, A Lando Calrissian show for Disney. Or at least I thought they were until now.
- [01:54]
B
No. Yeah. I mean, I could pretty much be like, yeah, you know, we're doing. It's not even a show.
- [02:01]
A
Should we bleep it?
- [02:03]
B
I'm sure, like, the nerds will figure it out anyway. Like, they'll read my lips or something.
- [02:09]
A
But wait, you said it's not even a show.
- [02:11]
B
No, the idea right now is to do a movie, you know, but, like, that's the thing. Like, right now, because of the strike, it's kind of like telephone. All the information.
- [02:23]
A
Like, I can be an information broker between you and the Walt Disney Company guys. They're doing a movie.
- [02:31]
B
You gotta pretend like you just got a text. I'm hearing. My sources are telling me.
- [02:53]
A
Did you ever play a game? And I hesitate to call it a game, but in high school, we played the pass out game.
- [03:03]
B
This sounds like something on a date line.
- [03:05]
A
It was definitely some things that, like, some. Some white kids at school were like, hey, check this out. And you would, like, stand. Stand there up against the wall, and you'd cross your arms like this, like, hand over shoulder, crisscrossed. And they would, like, press up and under your, like, rib cage until, like, you lost consciousness, see? And you would pop back in, like, 15 seconds later. And people would be like, yo, that was like. That was like being inside of Mortal Kombat. Or, like, it was like a Mario Kart level.
- [03:41]
B
I didn't even know you could do this. I'm about to go home and play the pass out game right now, so.
- [03:46]
A
I should say that I never played it, but I was in the room socially watching, and I was like, this doesn't feel like a thing. That my mom. I couldn't even lie to her about this.
- [04:00]
B
I always kind of wanted to, like, faint just because I wanted to know what it was like or what was happening. But, like, yeah, I remember, like, I, like, I played football and there was, like, a kid who, like, like an offensive lineman. He's, like, really big. And I remember we were, like, taking, like, the photos, and we're like, all standing.
- [04:20]
A
Like a team photo?
- [04:21]
B
Yeah, yeah, like a team photo. And we're, like, all standing on, like, these little makeshift, like, you know, bleacher things they set up or whatever. The offensive linemen are, like, in the back because they're the biggest. They're like on the top thing. We're, like, getting ready to take it. And also, you just hear this, like, this, like, giant office life is just tumbling forward over on everybody, and everybody's like, what's going on? He, like, passed out. And then the coach is like, I told you guys, stop locking your knees. Like, don't lock your knees. I'm like, lock your knees. I'm like, that's all it takes. I'm like, I lock my knees all the time.
- [04:56]
A
So I want to just set up a little bit about the fact that I think I. I was trying to do the math on this. I think I first encountered you and. Or Donald and. Or Ibrah and. Or swank, like, 10 years ago now, like 2013, which is wild. I don't think I've ever asked you a single question about what it was like to play high school football. Yeah, I. I honestly forgot until you just reminded me about that now.
- [05:21]
B
Nah, it's a part of my life I'm trying to, like, forget. I've been, like, running away from, I mean, high school football.
- [05:29]
A
What was the scouting report on Steven Glover? What position did you play? I don't know any of these answers, honestly. I totally.
- [05:35]
B
I played running back. I was. I played running back. So me getting to see the devaluing of the running back position personally affects me.
- [05:49]
A
At what point, at what point were you like, oh, I'm not gonna be doing this in college, man.
- [05:55]
B
I didn't play a whole lot. Like, I didn't have like, I'm shocked to hear that. I didn't, I wasn't like highly recruited. Pavlo.
- [06:03]
A
So at what point did you, at what point did you resolve in yourself? Like, oh, this is like a thing. That's. This, this is where this ends for me, man.
- [06:11]
B
It's funny. I remember.
- [06:13]
A
How quickly did he get disabused of this idea?
- [06:16]
B
There's a, there's a funny story, man. Like, everybody who played football remembers this speech because it was hilarious at the time. We had a coach and my 11th grade year, we found out like at the end it was going to be his last year coaching there. So like. But it's like the last game, like right before and he gives us like this speech. He's like, you know, like, we're all like huddled together. He's like, you know, you want to like take this time. Like this is like a special time right here. Like, this is, you know, remember this moment. Like, look at the guys like around you. Cause like, some of, you know, some of you, this will be the last time you ever play football. Like, this will be the last time you ever touch a football field. Like, kind of days. Like, that's like kind of insightful. He's like, you know, a couple years from now, like, some of you will be in jail. Some of you will be dead. Like.
- [07:12]
A
Really, like, morbid.
- [07:14]
B
Yeah, it was like, like, yeah. Like some of you, you know, you're gonna have problems with your wife, kids.
- [07:19]
A
Like you like 1.6 of you will be involved in a heavy machinery accident.
- [07:23]
B
Some of you are just gonna, you're not gonna make it home from this game. Like, statistically, at least one of you is dying in a car crash. We're all just like looking at each other like, wow. I mean, I guess like I thought this was a celebration, but now it's.
- [07:39]
A
Like getting increasingly specific. Kind of like an evil fortune teller.
- [07:43]
B
Yeah. No, but what was funny too is he was right. That's why I can't be mad at him. Cause I'm like, man, he was trying to tell us the truth. And I think when I thought about that, it's not like basketball where it's like you go to the pickup game, there's like an 80 year old man shooting three pointers. Like football. Once it's over, there's no pickup Football game.
- [08:08]
A
There's no recreational football over a certain.
- [08:11]
B
Age, you're never gonna put on a butt pad again. That's it.
- [08:23]
A
So Atlanta, like, for me to provide context for the listener on, like, you, I almost need to, like, say stuff like, you are the real life inspiration for Paperboy, and I don't know if people really appreciate that.
- [08:36]
B
And. No, they don't. They don't appreciate it enough. I am the real Paperboy.
- [08:42]
A
Okay. So I should just do a crude summary here, I think, for anybody who has never seen Atlanta, which is a shame, because the show ostensibly is about a rapper named Paperboy, who is played by Brian Tyree Henry and his manager, slash cousin Earn, who is played by Donald. And it speaks to, I mean, truly, like so many different things. It speaks to viral video culture and magical realism and race in America. And anyway, I'm writing a think piece at this point about my friend's TV show. Anyway, know that it's ostensibly about music. In reality, hijinks ensue.
- [09:19]
B
I do do all of this song.
- [09:21]
A
But you're the closest. So a. You're the actual voice. You're like, on those songs.
- [09:25]
B
Yeah, I do all the tracks. That's me.
- [09:28]
A
Like, you're rapping for Brian Tyre Henry. You're his ghost rapper.
- [09:33]
B
I'm the ghost rapper for Paper Boy. Paper Boy, Paper Boy always bout that Paper Boy if you ain't on your brand nig, you flexing user boy Paper Boy always getting Paper Boy. And you know, because I. I was. I grew up in Atlanta and spent like, a good part of my formative years out there. Like, a lot of the stories are based on stuff that I've seen and, like, gone through. But also like our friend like, Swank, you know, who. He's also a writer, he's from Atlanta. And like, my.
- [10:03]
A
It feels like you. But you and Swank, though, in the lore around you guys, as I've gotten to know you, it's like the. That is the most absurd that is in the show seems to be inspired by, like, you and. Or Swank's actual real life adventures.
- [10:18]
B
No, Very, very much so. Very true.
- [10:22]
A
What's. What's an example? Just so I can express this, like, accurately, what's an example of an episode that is, in fact inspired by something that happened to you guys that seems like it happened to nobody? Because it's ridiculous.
- [10:37]
B
The second episode of Atlanta, you know, earns in jail and Paperboy gets out of jail. Like, that was like, me and Swank, you know, like, we in jail. Yeah, we went to jail when we were like in college.
- [10:54]
A
Right?
- [10:54]
B
I know. That's exactly what I knew. I was like, wow. I was like, I'm never playing football again and I'm in jail just like you.
- [11:08]
A
But wait, what were you. What were you in jail for?
- [11:10]
B
So it was funny. We were shooting a music video. I was just getting ready to like move to la, but we were shooting a music video. And it was, it was funny cause we were shooting at this like these like artist warehouse things. It was like kind of like private property. But we had this director, like this guy, he was like directing us and he was living there in like the artist thing. So we're like, we're like shooting in this like, car. It's like Friday night, so it's. Or Saturday night. It's like already like kind of hot out there. And like Atlanta, as far as like cops are out, they're looking for like.
- [11:46]
A
In every sense, literal and figurative. It's real hot. This block is extraordinarily hot.
- [11:51]
B
They're looking for like troublemakers. But we weren't doing anything. We were like, we shot this video. We're in the back of this like, place. It's like these warehouses or whatever. And the kid. So the director is like, I'm gonna go inside my house and like grab something real quick. So he walks into his like, house or like the little studio thing. We're standing outside and this like cop car just comes around real slow. And like, it's like a lady, she's like, what are you guys doing here? We're like, oh, we're like shooting a music video. You know, we just finished. And then she like looks around, she's like, I don't see any cameras. And I was like, oh, this isn't gonna like. I already knew. I was like, this isn't gonna go well, right?
- [12:33]
A
Her first follow question indicated a lot about the rest of this conversation.
- [12:38]
B
She already doesn't believe us. So I'm like, all right, well yeah, you know, the director, he has the camera, he just like went inside. She's like, uh huh. Like, yeah. And then she gets out. The funny part about this is the direct dude who's directing the video, he like saw this cop car from inside and he ran out the other side of the building. He just ran out, got this car and left us. He was like, later. He was like, yeah, man, I got warrants, you know. So like I once I saw that, like I just. So it really felt like we were lying. Like we were like, we're shooting this video she's like, where's this director? I'm like, he'll be back any moment. He, like, never came back. He ditched us, like, completely. So we're there. She's like. She calls for, like, backup, you know, we're like, okay. Like, we're standing there looking in the car, and then there was, like, a gram of, like, weed in the car. And she's like, whose weed is this? We all, like, looked at each other. She's like, all right, you're all going to jail. So we went to jail. What's also funny about this story, too, is it was such a small amount of weed. They lost it on the ride over to the jail. They lost the weed. The one piece of evidence they had.
- [13:55]
A
Against us, the chain of custody on this evidence was not especially rigorous.
- [13:59]
B
It was not. The whole. The whole case was botched from the beginning. It was like a O.J. trial.
- [14:04]
A
Like, that's what many say. Many people say this about your arrest.
- [14:09]
B
So the whole thing was just like a kind of, like, silly people were.
- [14:13]
A
Protesting outside for you and swank over freeways holding, like, shirts with people running after the car.
- [14:20]
B
The cop cars that we're in. So it was like, yeah. Like, the whole thing was, like, very, like, just farcical and, like, funny. It all ended up, like. We just had to. We spent, like, 18 hours in this, you know, holding area in, like, jail.
- [14:35]
A
And so that's something I do want to find out about, though briefly, is. What's that 18 hours?
- [14:40]
B
Like, man, it's just like the episode. It's terrible. You know, there's, like, a Simpsons episode where, like, the school gets, like, those cheap, like, chairs. They have, like, a hump in them. Like, the kids can get comfortable in a chair.
- [14:57]
A
Constantly trying to find a groove that doesn't ever arrive.
- [15:00]
B
That's how it felt. Like, the chairs in there are, like, super uncomfortable. You're just, like, sitting.
- [15:06]
A
So my first thing I've learned about being in jail from you is that the chairs are suboptimal.
- [15:11]
B
Yes. They suck. They're not comfortable at all. The other thing, too, is whenever you go to jail, you will be hungry. You will never go on a full stomach. You know, like, only my bosses get arrested right after dinner. So as soon as you get there, you're gonna be like, damn, I wish I had eggs.
- [15:33]
A
I wish I had thinly sliced some garlic.
- [15:36]
B
Yeah.
- [15:36]
A
You know, put it on my.
- [15:38]
B
The food they had given us. They're like, here's, like, this bologna sandwich, you know, that was made. Who knows?
- [15:47]
A
Hold on, though. Hold on. At this point, you're sounding a little bit like a snob. Sorry the jail baloney wasn't up to Steve's specifications.
- [15:55]
B
I personally hate bologna. I've always hated bologna. So, you know, I'm like, I wish it was turkey. You know, a turkey sandwich in jail would have been great. But, yeah, so I am kind of a snob on that.
- [16:08]
A
I'm like, so, okay, chairs and the lunch meat.
- [16:13]
B
The lunch is terrible, Terrible. And it's a lot of sitting around. And there's a joke in the episode where like, like, you try and, like, go to sleep, and they're like, you can't sleep in here. And it's like, so what am I supposed to be doing? I don't know. Just stare forward. Think about your life.
- [16:33]
A
You know, what's the logic behind don't sleep? That's a rule that's imposed.
- [16:40]
B
It's probably so that you're not mentally, you know, there enough to fight back. You know, that's the first move of mind control. It's like sleep deprivation. They're like, let's keep these guys up for the next 18 hours, and they'll be easy to mold, and, you know, they'll do whatever we tell them to do kind of thing.
- [16:59]
A
And so the resolution of this 18 hours passes, and then what happens at hour 18 or thereabouts?
- [17:06]
B
Well, you get bailed out. And you.
- [17:08]
A
Who bailed you out?
- [17:10]
B
Who did bail me out? That was. It was our friends.
- [17:14]
A
Who did you ask to bail you out?
- [17:16]
B
Well, that was the thing. Everybody. My friends, me, Terrence, and Swank, we were shooting the video, so we all got arrested, so we had to call our other friends who weren't there to, like, bail us out. And it's like, you know, it's like college. So it's like, trying to get together.
- [17:34]
A
So you're at Georgia Tech at this point.
- [17:35]
B
Yeah. So, like, trying to get together, trying to scrape together, like, 200 bucks between your friends is still hard. Everybody's like, I don't know how much.
- [17:47]
A
It's all padding of pockets.
- [17:48]
B
Yeah. Like. Like, got to, like, get eight people together to get this bail to happen. Like, before I end up, like, getting in trouble for changing the story. I'm like, my. My ex girlfriend bailed me out. That's. That's.
- [18:01]
A
Let the record show.
- [18:03]
B
She's like, somewhere. Like, I don't know.
- [18:06]
A
Where am I in the episode is what she's asking right now.
- [18:09]
B
She's banned. Van comes at the end. Bails earned out.
- [18:13]
A
That's Right.
- [18:13]
B
And she's mad about it, so.
- [18:15]
A
And she knows she's Van in real life.
- [18:17]
B
She knows she's Van in that situation.
- [18:19]
A
You know, because Van's character arc does get.
- [18:23]
B
Yeah. She. She didn't go to Paris.
- [18:25]
A
Yeah.
- [18:26]
B
Beat anybody up. But. Yeah.
- [18:42]
A
It's important to point out that, like, you go from that to, like, being a. An objectively successful. Do you feel highly respected in Hollywood?
- [18:54]
B
No.
- [18:58]
A
No, I don't, because, like, you guys won Golden Globes. You've been. Got WGA Awards, you've been nominated for Emmys. I've seen you on red carpets. I've snuck into parties with you after you won, and I've gotten the sense that it's sort of like you're living a lucid dream. Except for some reminders, I guess, that you're not in the most inner sanctum yet.
- [19:24]
B
No, I mean, it's funny. Cause it's like, especially early on, the success was, like. It was strange because it came so quick.
- [19:36]
A
It happened. It was. I just want to. If I can, salute myself for just being a great stockholder.
- [19:42]
B
Yeah. I mean, you. You know how to pick them. You can tell early on, like, this.
- [19:48]
A
Kid'S going, I'm a. Yeah. I'm a gm. A GM of Friends. Hollywood gm. Yeah. This guy has a glint in his eye, his motor. He's an unstoppable motor.
- [20:01]
B
I've got all the intangibles you look for in a writer and a TV writer.
- [20:05]
A
But you were saying, though, that, like, it happened immediately, which was how it felt to me watching it. And I was like, holy.
- [20:11]
B
You know, I mean, the success, like, was. Was very early on, which was. Which made it, like, crazy. But, I mean, now that we're past that, you know, like, I've gotten to see, like, in the beginning, it's like, wow, Atlanta, it's, like, the greatest show. And, like, it's awesome to, like, now I'm like, people are like, places. Like, man, that show Atlanta sucks. You know? Like, I got to sit around long enough to, like, see the full, like, spectrum of it. We're like, man, who wrote this stupid episode? I'm like, man, that was. It didn't feel that long ago. I was at a Golden Globe party, dancing to Baden Bougie, you know, like.
- [20:51]
A
It wasn't so long ago that you literally introduced Hollywood to the Migos. To the Migos.
- [20:56]
B
You know? And now no one cares anymore. Now everybody. I'm like, check out this Ice Vice chick. Everybody's like, shut up.
- [21:07]
A
Comment sections turn.
- [21:09]
B
Yeah. You know, It's. But, I mean, like, you know, I just feel like.
- [21:13]
A
But hold on. You're making a. Potentially. You're making a Lando movie. So on some level, like. But. But. So explain how it is that both things can be true. Like, how is it that you're doing the. That, like, is a dream. That.
- [21:28]
B
But also, you know, I feel like, you know, there's.
- [21:32]
A
Is this a baloney situation? You're like, look, well, my suite at the Chateau Marmont. They didn't fluff my pillow.
- [21:41]
B
Well, no, it's like, you know, now I know enough to be like, there are pitfalls to all of this. You know, like, when episode one of Star wars came out, people were excited. I remember that, like, as a kid. Yeah. You know, they were like, oh, man, it's gonna be cool. And then it's like, you see Jar Jar Binks, and, like, people were upset. Like, man, like, there's always room for people to be disappointed in that.
- [22:08]
A
There was always room for. Decades later, a series of think pieces.
- [22:12]
B
Exactly.
- [22:13]
A
That only now reckon with the racialization of the Gungans. Are you ready? So, by the way, that's. And that's the part where, like, I actually do want to know how you and Donald, on some level. Like, because you guys. Something that I respect and fear for both of you guys, is that you, as much as anybody I know, you guys are attuned to the Internet.
- [22:37]
B
Yeah.
- [22:38]
A
Like, both. Both in ways that are, like, speaking to the creative sort of, like, fuel that you guys get from it. And also, like, the cynicism around how it works. But also, that means that your antenna has to be way up for how. This can be dangerous.
- [22:54]
B
No, for sure. I mean, you know, like, just the Internet in general. Like, like I said, I've gotten to see the. I've gotten to see the love and the hate several times in just different contexts. You know, I got to.
- [23:06]
A
What was your favorite moment of Steve getting high off the Internet?
- [23:10]
B
I won't say this is my favorite moment, but just showing, like, the highs and lows. It's like, you know, in Hollywood, like, especially. It's like you're only as valuable as the last thing you did. And it's like, until you're, like, Martin Scorsese or something, everyone is like, this could be the last we ever hear from you. So, like, Swarm. We just did Swarm, and Swarm didn't have a lot of fanfare, like, going into it, I don't think. I think a lot of people may not even have known it was gonna come out at first, but then it came out, and it was like, a big deal, big hit. Everybody was watching it. It was crazy, right?
- [23:50]
A
Inspired by the super fans of Beyonce.
- [23:54]
B
Inspired by the Internet, for sure.
- [23:56]
A
And the Hive. Yes.
- [23:57]
B
Yeah. And it's like, that was, like, a cool moment to, like, just like. Yeah, it was like, I imagine being DMX, you know, in the 90s. It's like you go outside and you're just hearing your album playing on the streets. It was like, everywhere I went, there were people talking about Swarm. It was. It was crazy, you know, but it was like. Yeah, like, just a reminder. Like, oh, okay. Like, I know what I'm doing, you know? Like, maybe I'm not as terrible as everybody thinks I am, you know, like, maybe we still got something, you know? So that. That was just like, a good, like, reminder of, like, yeah. You know, on to the next thing, you know? And, like, you don't get too high or too low ever, because it's all coming back around.
- [24:44]
A
So wait a minute. But I'm. What I'm registering from all of this is that, like, that your experience releasing Swarm and people having it resonate with them on some level, made you think to yourself, I want to do something else that has some element of. Does it feel like this thing has risk with it?
- [25:04]
B
Well, I mean, everything. Everything has risk with it. Unless it's like.
- [25:10]
A
But, like, look, Swarm, it's like, I'm gonna do a show about what it's like to be an unhinged, animalistic Beyonce superfan, and then I'm gonna do a show or a movie about star Lando, which, obviously, Donald had portrayed Lando before, but, like, the idea of, like, this is gonna be our thing. It feels like it's also daring. The hive that you just commemorated. Well, I mean, to then attack you.
- [25:40]
B
I think that this is not me.
- [25:42]
A
Trying to persuade you to not do this, by the way. I'm just curious.
- [25:46]
B
I'm not doing it. I've already decided.
- [25:49]
A
Like, this sounds like a dangerous idea, guys. You should have called me first.
- [25:52]
B
No, but I think everything that's worth doing has some risk to it, especially when you care about the quality of things. I think that's a big part of. Is, like, we don't want to do things that are just gonna be mediocre or just gonna be like, yeah, they came and went. Or, like, that was fine enough.
- [26:15]
A
You know, you guys take swings.
- [26:16]
B
Exactly. So there's always gonna be some risk. And with something like this, you know, there's gonna be people who are gonna who are really going to like, judge you, basically. Wait.
- [26:28]
A
When they realize you guys made Lando white.
- [26:30]
B
Yeah.
- [26:31]
A
Gonna be.
- [26:32]
B
When they realized that Lando is. Everything has been run past before.
- [26:40]
A
Woke Lando.
- [26:41]
B
Woke Lando.
- [26:43]
A
That's right.
- [26:44]
B
Like, none of his. None of the stuff you saw in the other movies is canon.
- [26:47]
A
Critical Race Theory. Lando is not gonna play well on Reddit.
- [26:54]
B
Yeah. No, people are. They're not gonna like it. But, I mean, I think it's just like.
- [26:58]
A
Yeah.
- [26:59]
B
You know, I think a lot of people would probably be worried to do something like this because of the pressure of pissing off these fans, you know, But I think it's like.
- [27:12]
A
Yeah, you know, you're like Bane is what you're saying. I hear you, like, rounding your way to, like, being born in the darkness.
- [27:19]
B
Exactly. It's like I was molded in. Exactly. This is what I want. This is what I live for, you know, I want. Cause that's the other thing, too. It's like Eli Manning to circle this back to football.
- [27:33]
A
I have no idea how this is like, Eli Manning.
- [27:36]
B
Let me explain how this is like Eli Manning. Eli Manning comes into the NFL, he's supposed to go to the Chargers. He's like, nah, I want to go to New York. He comes to New York, so there's already that hanging over him. Then he comes in. People are like, man, you are nothing like Peyton. You got this look on your face, you know, you got this body language we don't like. Everybody's like, man, I don't know. This kid has it, you know, and then it's like, he beats the Patriots, you know, on a crazy run with Randy Moss and all, and now it's.
- [28:13]
A
The greatest team of all time.
- [28:14]
B
Exactly.
- [28:15]
A
Derp face Peyton Manning.
- [28:17]
B
And now I'm sure Eli can walk into any bodega in New York and get a chopped cheese for free. You know, he's the man now. It's like, most people do not want to step into that. Into that cauldron of the New York Giants quarterback position with, you know, and for years, people were like, this team is terrible. Like, it could have went the wrong way.
- [28:39]
A
I just like how you have Eli going into a bodega. I guarantee Eli Manning is not walking. I saw Eli Manning in the Hamptons.
- [28:46]
B
He could be. He could go in the Hamptons.
- [28:48]
A
I saw Eli Manning, dude. I was eating. I was eating lunch with David Samson, who works for Meadowlark. We're at work, very stoned. We're eating lunch at, like, a dockside fancy restaurant in, like, The Hamptons, right? And in walks Eli Manning. And Eli Manning is, like, six, five, like, just tall, confident, perpetually dressed, like he's at an Easter function. Just like, shorts, polo. Just like the dude. The confidence that he has in any setting in the. In the Tri State area. That part is real.
- [29:22]
B
That's what I mean. He can go anywhere now. It doesn't matter what he did the other years of his career. It's like, that was enough. Like this fan base that has chewed people up and spit them out a million times.
- [29:34]
A
Yeah, no, that's. By the way, that's. That's some of the. That I love about New York. Like, the mythology of New York that I do subscribe to. It's like, if you survive the media here and the spotlight here, that is real. We were talking about, like, the ways in which attention and spotlight can, like, melt your brain. The people who have won, who made it to that highest level. Derek Jeter is, like, fascinating for this reason. Eli, too. They escaped unscathed, which is the hardest thing.
- [30:02]
B
It's like, we did everything we could to try and break you, and you didn't break. So now you can be our friend, like, kind of thing. That's how New York operates. It's like, yeah, like, of course, we were hazing you the whole time, but you passed. So now you're. Now you're the guy, you know? But it's like, yeah, that's kind of how I feel like with, you know, doing something like Star Wars.
- [30:23]
A
It's like, there's a. I get the metaphor now.
- [30:26]
B
See, now you're bringing it all home. It's like, you take that risk, it could end up badly. You know, you could end up like. I'm trying to think of a New York Giants quarterback who flamed out. Let's.
- [30:38]
A
Who was the shittiest? Oh, Joe Pisarcik, Craig Morton, Scott Bruner. I think the point is being proven.
- [30:49]
B
We don't even know who these guys are. Correct.
- [30:52]
A
Frank Fieldchock. No, you don't. You don't remember Frank Philchock from 1946? He had a 60.2 Q.
- [31:03]
B
You don't have to go back that far to find a Lions quarterback.
- [31:07]
A
No. Danny Cannell from 96. 98.
- [31:11]
B
That's a good one.
- [31:24]
A
So I should say that the. You identifying with Eli Manning feels a little on the nose.
- [31:31]
B
I. I am. And me and Eli are. You know, we're like kindred spirits. He's the younger brother, too. You know, he gets what I'm going through.
- [31:39]
A
So I texted Donald and I said that we're going to do like a podcast. And he was like, is there anything specific you guys are talking about? And I was like, what should I ask him about? Let me know. And Donald said, quote, ask about the clip art jokes we used to make as kids, end quote. I have no idea what the clip.
- [31:58]
B
Art jokes are, man. Donald. Donald likes to be like, we invented memes. We invented memes in the 90s, early 2000s. Like, you guys, like.
- [32:12]
A
What does this mean?
- [32:14]
B
Well, there was a computer game program called Spider Man Comic Book Maker, which we had on our family computer, which is. It had really kind of animation that would just do certain things, like Spider Man Walking Weird.
- [32:30]
A
Or Spider Man Cartoon Maker.
- [32:32]
B
I'm saying Comic Book Maker.
- [32:34]
A
Oh, my God. Yep. Photos of a CD ROM with this. This as the COVID art.
- [32:39]
B
So we would just make funny stuff with that. You know, we would make little, like, comic book things. It was pretty terrible. There was that. But then what I started doing was, you know, PowerPoint had all the clip art. Oh, right in it. And so we. I just started doing things where I would find clip art that I thought was funny and I would just like, put it there and then like, kind of like put like a blurb or like a meme of like, you know, explaining this out of context, like clip art. So in a way, like making memes based off of like the stock clip art that you find in PowerPoint.
- [33:14]
A
It sounds like you were making New Yorker cartoons pretty much using PowerPoint. This sounds far more highbrow than I imagine.
- [33:22]
B
No, that's what I mean. It was ahead of its time. This is me as like a 13 year old being like, let me find these funny, like, clip arts and be like, this is. This is great one that I remember specifically. There's like a clip art of like an umpire in between two people. It was like a black. Because it's like, you know, it's like corporate stuff. So it's like one guy in like a tie and another guy in a tie, and it's like a real umpire, like, in between them. And because it's like cliff art, too. Like one guy's black and one guy's white. So I just remember I had that clip and I just put underneath, like, hey, guys, save that racism for the game. I tried to keep them apart, but just like, yeah, stupid stuff like that to make each other laugh. We probably did. We probably had like 80 of these things that we. We would just go at different times.
- [34:20]
A
You and Donald had a hard drive full of Mostly based on hard drive sizes back then. Mostly full of clip art.
- [34:28]
B
90% clip art that we made. So, yeah, that's how we changed the world. Once Bill Gates got ahold of it, it was out.
- [34:39]
A
But wait, you and Donald at that age, like, making each other laugh? To what extent were other people laughing?
- [34:48]
B
I mean, a lot of people. I mean, my family in general, it was pretty funny. My sister is also funny. My sister Brianne, she would make clif art. She joined in with us doing that too. So lot of it was always just like making each other laugh, you know. My dad was also like a silly guy. Like, loved to laugh. And I remember we had a. Donald had a talk. Boy, if this is really going back. Like a Home Alone toy. Yeah. And like, we would like just make like fake commercials and like fake stuff on that, you know, so it was always just like, you know, we like not to like, be like. We never had much, you know, but it's like. No, it's like if we, like, as kids, I think our imagination was really good because we could just take something as shitty as that. Spider man comic book maker, which I think my dad bought like secondhand for like 10 bucks or something.
- [35:51]
A
It was like your dad bought a ripped version, a bootleg Spider man cartoon. It was already on a burned CDR.
- [35:59]
B
I'm sure it was like on sale for like 5 bucks. I'm sure somebody had already bought it and was like, this is terrible. And like returned it.
- [36:06]
A
That stuff would be. You could like sell all of those as NFTs. Now you guys gotta find that hard drive.
- [36:13]
B
Like two years ago would've been the first time.
- [36:15]
A
I know. Actually. Yeah. Right now. No. No one.
- [36:17]
B
Yeah, like $7 million. They'd have like. The arena in like LA is named like the Spider Man Comic Book Maker Arena.
- [36:29]
A
There's a shot of it being Airlift. They had to rename the un. Rename the Staples Center Spider Man.
- [36:37]
B
That's going to be funny to look back at in a couple of years. People be like, the crypto scene, what is that? It's like an old man explaining, like, well, Jimmy, there were these bored apes. And.
- [36:50]
A
In that way you did foresee. I mean, if that is clip art, fundamentally, it is.
- [36:55]
B
You know, they should have put something funny underneath these bored apes.
- [37:00]
A
Nope.
- [37:02]
B
They took themselves too seriously. That was the problem. They should have been memeing themselves.
- [37:08]
A
So wait, so just give me a sense of you. So what year is this roughly? I want to place myself in this timeline.
- [37:16]
B
Oh, man, it was probably like 2000, 1999, maybe like right around there.
- [37:25]
A
Were you guys. Were you and Donald on aol?
- [37:28]
B
I didn't.
- [37:28]
A
What was your isp? To what extent are you guys of the Internet, man?
- [37:34]
B
It's funny. I remember we went over to a friend of my dad's house and like, he was like. Like, we gave in there. And I remember he was like, I got like, the Internet. I got like, the computer. And, like, I remember Donald was super excited. Donald's like, what? Like, he, like, ran over there. He's like. And I didn't really know what it was. I was like, yeah. And I went over.
- [37:57]
A
I'm like, look, big Eli Manning face wandering over there.
- [38:01]
B
And I'm like, looking. I'm like, so what is this? And he's like, you know, you could, like, go on. You go, like, to all these different things. I'm like, so I'm a kid. I'm like, go to nickelodeon.com. let's. Okay, like, let me see that. It's like you pulled it up. It was like, so early that you would go there and it would be, like, under construction. It's like a picture of like a one Nick Toon cartoon. Like Chucky from the Rugrats. Like, shrugging, like.
- [38:28]
A
Literal clip art of, like those orange construction cones on either side, like a web counter, like, at the bottom.
- [38:34]
B
Yeah. It's like you're first 628 to come here. It's like, disappointed. Like, you shouldn't be, like, soon, one day we'll have something. And I remember we went to a couple of, like, sites and they were all like, that. They were all like, under construction. Like, you know what? And I was like, I don't get this. And I remember, like, like a year later, a couple months later, like, my dad was like, he got a computer. And he was like, yeah, you all need email addresses. You guys gotta have, like, email. What were we using? We were using, like, Juno. I don't even know what people.
- [39:08]
A
I mean, all you need to do to express your poverty was say, I.
- [39:13]
B
Was Steve gloveruno.com somewhere out there there's a Juno account racking up, like, nicktoons, like, newsletter. I appreciate my dad about my dad, like, his enthusiasm for, like, new technology. He was always, like, on the cusp. He was like. Like, he was excited about the Internet. He's like, we gotta, like, have a computer.
- [39:38]
A
Yeah, my dad is the same way. My dad brought us a joystick before we knew what it was. You know, like, my dad was somebody who loved a Sharper Image catalog, or so it seemed in retrospect, just, like, devices and stuff.
- [39:54]
B
Here's another deep cut. There was a video game called Monster Rancher.
- [40:00]
A
Yes, yes, yes.
- [40:02]
B
Monster Rancher was a great game where you raised a monster, kind of like Pokemon. But the cool thing about it was these monsters are trapped on disc. Disc Stones was like, the thing. So you could find any disc, put it into the PlayStation, and it will create you a random monster, like, based on the data on this disc. So because my dad had hundreds and hundreds of CDs, it was like the greatest game ever, you know? And, like, they're like super rare ones that you could only get from certain discs. And he would like. It's like this In Living Colors cd. You could get this cool monster. I'm like, my dad has this cd.
- [40:43]
A
Wait, so I should say that my memory of Monster Rancher ends at. There was a thing called Monster Rancher. And the idea that there would be specific. There would be specific CDs that resulted in, like, triggering, unlocking.
- [40:59]
B
Yes.
- [40:59]
A
A special monster.
- [41:02]
B
Exactly.
- [41:02]
A
And you're saying that literally the programmers of Monster Rancher were like, if you have this cd, yes. You will get this special edition, like.
- [41:12]
B
Limited Kenny G monster. Well, he wouldn't, like, look like Kenny G, but it might be. The monster might be called something, you know, winking at Kenny G. Like a. I don't know, like a jazz. Jazz. A sword. I don't know.
- [41:28]
A
But it would be like, this is an incredible special.
- [41:31]
B
It would be like a special, like, one of, like, you couldn't get it on any, like, by using any other disc. Sometimes you could use two, like, CDs and you'd get the same monster.
- [41:42]
A
You're saying you would get, like, a David Alan Grier monster after plugging in, like, your In Living Colors cd.
- [41:49]
B
See, this is. This is also taking it back in Living Color. Like, Living Color. There's a rock. There's a black rock band called Living Color. And then there's the show In Living Color.
- [41:58]
A
Oh, yeah. See, this is. I should. I should. I should now reflect on why I thought In Living Color would have a cd.
- [42:05]
B
There's, like, the soundtrack to, like, this soundtrack to Living Color. It's like Jim Carrey doing songs. But, you know, what's funny is, back then, that's how it used to be. My dad had the. The original Batman soundtrack that Prince did. He actually had, like, three Batman soundtrack CDs.
- [42:27]
A
Needless to say, a lot of great music came from Batman soundtracks.
- [42:31]
B
Very true. You know, Kiss From a Rose.
- [42:33]
A
Oh, my God. I mean, the Batman Forever Soundtrack is an all time classic, man.
- [42:37]
B
I remember there was a song Method man does a song about the Riddler. I think he raps from the perspective of the Riddler.
- [42:46]
A
Wait, well, I'm gonna play some of this. Hold on.
- [42:50]
B
Oh, my goodness. I crack a board and I caught about a mill codependent Johnny Blazing, Bobby Stills. We was blazing hot.
- [43:13]
A
At this point, we should point out that the music video is interlaced with, like, almost like strobe, like, clips of Jim Carrey becoming the Riddler in Batman Forever.
- [43:22]
B
It's like the least hip hop thing you can see.
- [43:27]
A
And weirdly also bring us back to In Living Color.
- [43:30]
B
Yeah, everything's connected. Everything is connected to Jim Carrey.
- [43:36]
A
This is. This is incredible.
- [43:40]
B
Yeah. My dad has how many views do.
- [43:42]
A
You think this video?
- [43:46]
B
Like, I'm gonna say 700.
- [43:51]
A
It has 13,000.
- [43:52]
B
Wow.
- [43:55]
A
This is the official music video. It has 13,000. We're gonna chart the success of this episode based on how many views this gets. That's after this comes out.
- [44:05]
B
I want to come back to that video, like, in like, two weeks and just see people, like in the comments, like, came here cause of Pablo, only.
- [44:13]
A
Here came here because Steve referenced his dad's CD collection. If you told me, Steve, that this podcast would end in us playing the music video for the Riddler by Method Man, I would have said, yeah, that's about right.
- [44:29]
B
I wouldn't have guessed it, but I'm not surprised.
- [44:35]
A
I look forward to being cast as a character in your Lando movie.
- [44:39]
B
You can be one of the senators. You can be a space senator.
- [44:43]
A
You guys got that? That's a legally binding. I'm turning to our producer. That's a legally binding contract.
- [44:48]
B
I'm sure Lucasfilms is already canceling our contract. They're like, you weren't supposed to say. You're already making promises to people.
- [44:56]
A
You're casting people.
- [45:00]
B
The WGA is going to come down on me pretty hard too. So it's all, this may not happen.
- [45:09]
A
Steve, thank you for getting in trouble with me.
- [45:12]
B
Yeah, no, thanks for having me. Anytime, man. Anytime. A good excuse to come to New York.
- [45:45]
A
Okay, so I'm sitting down at my computer and reflecting on what I found out today. And. And I knew this, but I should just reiterate it. I love Steve. I think he's just brilliant. One of the most brilliant writers in entertainment in general. I'm definitely gonna demand to have Steve in our regular rotation here as a friend of Pablo Torre finds out. Because today, specifically, what I found out is so clear to me. If you have a friend who's making a secret Star wars movie, you can just invite him onto your show and shamelessly pressure him until he finally agrees to make you a galactic senator. This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out A Meadowlark Media Production and I'll talk to you next time.
- [47:10]
B
Sam.