The 2nd Annual Ronny Chieng Content-Prostitution Hour

Summary

Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: The 2nd Annual Ronny Chieng Content-Prostitution Hour

Date: December 13, 2024
Guests: Ronny Chieng (comedian, actor, Daily Show correspondent)

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Overview

In this lively and fast-paced episode, Pablo welcomes Ronny Chieng for what's dubbed the "2nd Annual Content-Prostitution Hour." The conversation delves into the commodification of personality and culture in modern media, the tension and hilarity around Asian identity in sports and entertainment, and a behind-the-scenes look at failed projects and new successes. With typical wit and self-deprecation, Pablo and Ronny dissect their roles in the content economy, reminisce about internet sports culture, analyze Asian representation in media, and riff on everything from jiu-jitsu to the state of journalism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Content-Prostitution” Dynamic

• Opening Banter: Pablo jokes about only booking Ronny as an easy “get” to fulfill his “Asian podcaster punch card.”
  • “You get your punch card of Asian podcasters, then at the end you get a free boba or whatever.” – Pablo (01:15)
  • Ronny pushes back with tongue-in-cheek pride at his “juice to getability ratio.” (01:30).
• Both riff on the idea that in digital media, everyone’s trading their identity for clicks and content.
• Metacommentary: The episode is intentionally self-aware about being “content about content.”

2. The Disastrous Dan LeBatard Show Appearance

• Pablo brings up Ronny’s awkward first LeBatard Show appearance, punctuated by repeated cutaways to a producer (Taylor Vipulis) on a speedboat. (03:43–05:34)
• Ronny admits he said yes to the invite because he was a fan – “I said yes to him because I was actually a fan of his. That’s what’s kind of sad.” (05:52)
• Both laugh about how these mishaps reflect the chaos of sports media and personal relationships therein.

3. Asian Identity, Sports, and Representation

• Discussion about their longstanding friendship, “carbon dated” to the era of peak Jeremy Lin fandom. (08:00–09:08)
• Ronny is about to visit Jeremy Lin playing basketball in Taiwan.
• Both reflect on the pressure of privacy and celebrity, comparing Lin’s secret marriage to Hideki Matsui’s infamous “drawing reveal” of his wife at a press conference. (10:01–11:17)
• “At some point you gotta say, no, you don’t [owe the public everything]. I wonder actually when you sort of—what’s your Goldilocks level of celebrity at this point?” – Pablo (11:17)
• Ronny: “Honestly, I don’t think about it... I just want to write a funny joke.” (11:34)

4. Navigating Recognition and Humility

• Ronny's awkwardness in fan interactions—downplaying fame, sometimes to the point of confusion.
  • “Are you the crazy rich Asian?...I don’t know who you mean.” (13:02)
• “Humility makes people think I’m being arrogant.” – Ronny (12:45)

5. Failed TV Pilots and the State of Comedy

• Ronny shares details about a failed sitcom pilot where he played the Brooklyn Nets’ GM, including Pablo’s cameo and Dennis Leary’s involvement. (15:05–17:42)
  • “The log line of Ronny Chieng becomes Brooklyn Nets general manager, frankly, I was in, based just on that sentence.” – Pablo (15:54)
  • Both lament the loss of projects that tackled American-Asian themes and satirized the sports-industrial complex.

6. Asian Identity—Labels, Stereotypes, and “Fun Asians”

• Extended riff on the ambiguity of Asian identity and outsider perceptions, citing a Yahoo Answers question:
  • “Pablo Torre: Mexican, Asian or American? It’s the worst phrasing of that question.” – Ronny (14:05)
• Ronny recaps his comedic “hierarchy of fun Asians” from his stand-up, ranking Koreans as currently “most fun” due to cultural dominance (BTS, Parasite, K-dramas), with Filipinos a close second. (31:09)
• They joke about Daniel Dae Kim’s “ageless Korean” status and absurd good looks (32:00–32:24).

7. Sports Journalism, Intellectualism, and the Internet’s Evolution

• Nostalgia for the “FreeDarko” blog and the early days of “elevated” sportswriting that mixed pop culture, visuals, and basketball analysis. (20:21–22:46)
  • “That was like, the first elevated sports writing that I saw...that kind of merged pop culture with specifically basketball.” – Ronny (21:20)
• Discussion about the loss of depth in today’s social media–fueled “content economy.”
  • “We are three levels beyond actual content creation. We’re just eating people’s regurgitated vomit.” – Pablo (23:18)

8. Media, Capitalism, and Tech Company Domination

• How legacy media (ESPN, NBA, Grantland) has been subsumed or displaced by tech companies.
• Pablo confesses that he sometimes depresses journalism students with third-degree nihilism:
  • “We’re all OnlyFans creators now working for these soulless tech companies...Show some ankle? What do you want me to do?” (25:01)

9. “Interior Chinatown,” Representation, and Ambitious Art

• Ronny discusses his role in Hulu’s “Interior Chinatown,” explaining the concept: Asian background characters in a police procedural, unaware they’re on a TV show, with shifting realities and a real mystery at its heart. (35:57–39:02)
• The show’s ambition: it’s “weird,” “not spoon-feeding,” and draws comparisons to David Lynch.
  • “How cool is it that we got to make this thing with Asian guys?...Why are we background characters in the story all the time?” – Ronny (38:11, 38:49)
• Pablo praises the show's blend of comedy, complexity, and meaning. (28:59)

10. Martial Arts & Jiu Jitsu as a Cultural Lens

• Ronny reveals his decades-long martial arts journey and newfound love for Jiu Jitsu, while Pablo links it to the viral rise via Zuckerberg, Rogan, and MMA.
  • “There’s a sort of cognitive logic, an intellectualism to Jiu Jitsu in terms of strategy.” – Pablo (41:01)
• Jiu Jitsu as a “thinking man’s martial art” and an apolitical space that bridges cultural and political divides.
  • “It might be the answer to solving the divide in America...Jiu Jitsu might be the only common thread that could connect left and right.” – Ronny (44:37)
• Ronny: "I tap early. My whole thing is don’t get injured. My goal is mental health.” (45:05)

11. Reading, Writing, and Mental Health in the Age of Social Media

• Both extol the virtues of reading and longform writing as antidotes to the algorithm.
  • “Reading is the perfect antidote to social media. If you feel like social media is doing you damage, just read a book or a well-written article.” – Ronny (26:45)
• Ronny issues a “national imperative” for Pablo to write more.
• The episode ends on a meta note—making content about disliking the content economy but doing it anyway, for both fun and capitalist necessity.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On old media vs. new:
  “We used to be Grantland…now we're trying to get aggregated on Buttcracks [Sports].” – Pablo (23:13)

• On being recognized:
  “I’m not great at it because I think the humility makes people think I’m being arrogant.” – Ronny (12:45)

• On failed pilots:
  “I was the general manager of the Brooklyn Nets. That was the pilot...The log line...frankly, I was in, based just on that sentence.” – Ronny & Pablo (15:05–15:54)

• On the content grind:
  “This is peak sports podcasting…a boom time…and we can’t even get chairs that don’t wobble.” – Pablo and Ronny (07:14–07:27)

• On Asian fun hierarchy:
  “Do you have a hierarchy of fun Asians? Yeah…Watch my standup special, I describe the hierarchy.” – Ronny (31:09–31:18)

• On “Interior Chinatown”:
  “It’s hard to summarize, but that’s what’s cool about it. It’s weird and ambitious, and we’re not spoon feeding you.” – Ronny (36:49)

• On mental health and martial arts:
  “My goal is mental health. Do not get injured. Do not injure anyone else.” – Ronny (45:05)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:53–01:42: Content "prostitution," punch cards, and being an Asian guest.
• 03:43–06:16: The Taylor Swift speedboat LeBatard interview debacle.
• 08:00–09:08: Jeremy Lin, Asian basketball fandom, balance between privacy and celebrity.
• 10:01–11:17: Matsui’s drawing, celebrity privacy quirks, Goldilocks fame.
• 13:02–13:22: Ronny's awkward fan interactions.
• 15:05–18:18: Details on the “Brooklyn Nets GM” sitcom pilot.
• 20:21–22:46: "FreeDarko," early internet sportswriting, and nostalgia for old school blogs.
• 23:18–23:53: “Three levels beyond content creation”, the modern regurgitation cycle.
• 26:44–26:59: The “national imperative” to read and write.
• 31:09–31:49: The Asian “fun” hierarchy.
• 35:57–39:02: “Interior Chinatown” premise and making Asian background characters the leads.
• 40:05–44:55: Ronny’s martial arts journey; Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and its cultural bridge role.
• 45:00–47:42: Mental health in training; encouragement for Pablo's writing.

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, fast, and self-aware; Pablo and Ronny riff, undercut, and compliment each other with “inside baseball” references.
• Underlying humor laced with sincerity about media, culture, and identity.
• Frequent asides and callbacks add improv-like energy and highlight both camaraderie and shared angst about their place in the content machine.

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode is a witty, wide-ranging conversation that uses the “content-prostitution” joke as a launchpad for sincere discussions about race, career, creativity, and the paradoxes of modern fame. It blends comedic back-and-forth with serious insights, making it equally entertaining and thought-provoking—with plenty of Asian-American in-jokes, sports culture nerdery, and meta-critique of new media. Ronny Chieng shines as a deadpan, self-deprecating guest, giving listeners not just laughs but real talk about being an outsider, the importance of artistic focus, the perils of online culture, and the small victories of original, ambitious art.

Bottom Line:
Come for the jokes about punch cards and speedboats—stay for the honest takes on Asian-American visibility, the fate of writing, and why everyone should still read books.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[B]

Pablo S tore. Mexican, Asian or American?

[A]

Right after this ad. You're listening to Giraffe Kings. Oh, I was gonna make fun of you for that bag. Now I see what's in it.

[B]

You can make fun of it.

[A]

Well, I wanna. I, I was. I have questions about to see you. Good to see you.

[B]

How you feeling?

[A]

I'm good.

[B]

I. I haven't seen you in so long.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I only see you when you need something from me, which is this. Listen, this is all I am to you.

[A]

I'm not saying that content prostitutes, but.

[B]

Just because you did a favor to me one time on a pilot, now.

[A]

I gotta have to resort to booking fellow Asian people because no one else wants to come on my show.

[B]

Well, that doesn't make me want to be here.

[A]

This is charity.

[B]

This is. This is.

[A]

This is social. This is social charity.

[B]

You get.

[A]

You get points. You get your punch card of Asian podcasters, then at the end you get a free boba or whatever.

[B]

That punch card. I'm the most gettable for My advice.

[A]

Don't say that. Don't.

[B]

Don't depreciate the value of the juice to getability. I have the highest ratio of my assist. The turnover ratio. My juice to getability ratio is very high for Asians.

[A]

That's right. You have Russell Westbrook qualities. Have we been rolling?

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

Great. Cut the Russell Westbrook slander. Keep in everything else. I want to reveal that I've. I've been unhelpful in. In creating peace and brokering peace between you and. And a certain podcast host.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I got no beef with him. We don't need to go into. I don't.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Yeah. I don't want people to be like, he won't let it go because I did let it go.

[A]

I know. I would like to force it into your life again. No, because it amuses me.

[B]

It's okay. We don't need to.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Don't want to become the guy who keeps bringing it up.

[A]

I know, I know. But would you mind if we brought former North Carolina receiver Taylor Vipulous back onto a speedboat again and just cut to you over and over again. Okay, so just real quick here, because we have lots of actual special stuff that I've been meaning to discuss all year with Ronnie Chang, our special guest today, the actor, standup comic, daily show correspondent, et cetera, et cetera. And I have been truly Waiting to do this for months now. But the thing that I do need to just get past first is Ronny Chang's first and only interview on the Dan LeBatard show, which was disastrous. And from earlier in 2024, before the super bowl, when a bewildered Ronnie was zoomed in to Dan's show, which kept trying to hijack the Taylor Swift YouTube algorithm, I am told, by cutting away from Ronnie to producer and former North Carolina receiver Taylor Vipulous, who was livestreaming his Swift football takes while on an actual speedboat.

[B]

Hold on a second.

[C]

Hold on a second, Ronnie. So we're bringing in our speedboat here. We're going very fast again. Do you have a sports question of any kind, Ronnie, that you would ask our speedboat correspondent that you would want him to give you an answer to as fast as possible?

[B]

No. Okay.

[C]

I put you in a bad spot.

[A]

A.

[B]

You apologized in advance.

[C]

I keep doing that. And now Taylor is going slow again.

[B]

This is. I feel like it's. I feel like I'm doing the interview with the. With the countdown on it. Okay. Because I'm looking at the guy on the boat, so I'm wondering how long I have to answer. Yeah.

[A]

I would not say that Taylor's Swift takes were a rousing success, but I am pretty sure that all of this was ultimately Taylor Stan Lert's idea.

[B]

Ronnie. I also apologize on the back end, though. I mean, well, we're gonna have you.

[C]

On again and do it right and do it better without someone on a speedboat. Okay? So if you would be. If you would do us the courtesy of doing it again because I botched the first six minutes of this.

[B]

Maybe not sure.

[C]

Maybe doesn't sound promising. It doesn't sound. I don't blame you if you don't.

[A]

Don't.

[C]

But. But thank you for this.

[B]

He called me to apologize the day after, and I asked him, how did you get my number? And it was you. You gave him my number. And he apologized for taking my number. He actually did.

[A]

The funny thing about dad is that he is. He. He loves leitard. Loves nothing more than a comedian, really.

[B]

It could have fooled me, but. But here's the. Here's the real sad part. Was I. When it comes in. In the list of requests for me, I say no to all this crap.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I said yes to him because I was actually a fan of his.

[A]

I know.

[B]

That's what. It's kind of sad. Damn. You know, we've done this thing, but.

[A]

And now you've said it in the Past tense.

[B]

Oh, fans. Oh, yeah, yeah. Let's just say he's not my algorithm, but, you know, he did call me, apologize. But, like, it. It feels a little bit, like, hollow because it's like. Well, you left the clip on, so it's like. What are you really sorry.

[A]

Listen, what I. What I want to keep prodding at, though, is the. Is the genuine.

[B]

Is this a big thing in the.

[A]

Sports journalism subculture at a company that Dan owns and operates that I work for? It's very much an inter. Office.

[B]

Oh, you work at the same company?

[A]

I should. I should say that.

[B]

Oh, I didn't know.

[A]

I should have probably disclosed that legally.

[B]

What, Meadowlock?

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

Oh, so he works for Meadowlock, Dan.

[A]

Yeah, he founded it.

[B]

Oh, he founded this thing. Well, why the am I here then?

[A]

I was going to say you probably should. You probably should have.

[B]

Yeah. You should have opened with that. I thought this was like, your own thing. No, I didn't know that. That's why you're so interested. I see. Yeah, I know. I didn't know that it was the same company, but that goes to the show. That's how little, like, I hold grudges about this. You know what I mean? I don't.

[A]

Truly. Truly what I was going to.

[B]

Hey, Dan, can we get a new chair? I know this is. This is. Dan paid for this. Get this on. Get this on camera. This is the level. This is where we're at. ESPN to this.

[A]

This is. This is peak sports podcasting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know if you noticed this, but we're in a boom time for sports podcasting.

[B]

ESPN to this. We came and get chairs that don't wobble. That's how far we've come. That's how far we've come, everybody.

[A]

I genuinely did love you going on Rich Eisen's show, though.

[B]

Thanks for having me on. It's nice to be on a sports show with a host who actually wants guests on the show versus some other sports podcast shows I've been on. So great. Oh, yeah, Rich was great. Rich was the best. Respectful. He was trying to get in depth.

[A]

Meanwhile, you and me, we have had off the record dinners in which we criticize NBA players that were afraid to say in public.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

Well, I think the first time we had dinner.

[B]

Yes, we had.

[A]

This is probably over how long ago?

[B]

Like, this was years ago.

[A]

This was a time. And this is how I sort of carbon date our. Our friendship and also, like, the arc of our demographic. It's at a Time when we were still talking mostly about Jeremy Lin.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Hey, I'm going to go see him in Taiwan.

[A]

You are?

[B]

I'm going to go see him play in Taiwan. Sorry, don't. Let me.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

Don't be. Derail it, please.

[A]

I was just saying, like, we met up, talked about again, your genuine love of basketball.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you know that he had been married before he announced it on Instagram?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't, but it's okay. He's a private guy.

[A]

I know, I know. But I thought that I was. I was.

[B]

I thought you were better friends of him.

[A]

I've known him since he was in college.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I also was. This is my weird relationship with him, though, is that I was always also. And this is my conflict.

[B]

You went to Harvard with him. That's right.

[A]

And I was also, like, a journalist who was, like, writing about him, and so I was always kind of mining him. He was the first American I turned into a content prostitute, where I was like, hey, man, I needed this quote. I need to follow you around.

[B]

Your career. Yeah.

[A]

Legitimately, I was a barnacle on his leg. But when I saw that he had announced years after he had gotten married, and I get why, by the way, to be clear.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

His level of celebrity and fame, especially.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Overseas China, Taiwan, all that is unthinkable. And so when I saw it, I was like, I was both happy and sad. Because he.

[B]

Happy for him.

[A]

No, no, But. But sad because he had to go through this whole layer of privacy protection. Because.

[B]

No, don't be sad because. Because the truth, I don't want to speak for him, but the truth is, I think he just doesn't think it was anyone's business. Maybe he's. He's very humble guy. He probably didn't think it was a big deal, you know, and so be it. It wasn't like he was like, oh, no, I have to hide this from the world. He. More like, I, it was. I, I. If anything, I think it was more like he doesn't care about, you know, letting the world know what's going on.

[A]

Do you remember, I don't know if you remember this story, when Hideki Matsui, again, former Yankees slugger, one of the great stars of Japanese baseball, when he announced his. His engagement in America. And he announced it at a press conference that he called, and instead of showing a photo of his. His wife, he produced a drawing he had made. Here we go.

[B]

It looks like. It looks like he's describing who mugged him. Right you know, I mean, it's like this person, if anyone's seen this person, they have my wallet.

[A]

Yes, it looks like that. Have you seen that local news segment they did in like Alabama when they saw the leprechaun?

[B]

This amateur sketch resembles what many of you say the leprechaun looks like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, she's more beautiful than a leprechaun, to be clear.

[A]

For those just listening on audio. She is beautiful. And the drawing is better rendered than I would say 99 of most baseball players would attempt to draw their own wife.

[B]

Yeah, man, if I drew my own wife, I mean, it wouldn't look anything like. It wouldn't look anything like that. Yeah, I think so. That was a privacy thing, right?

[A]

That was a privacy thing.

[B]

But then why even do that? So that's a quirky thing. You know, I mean, just be. I married someone, don't worry about it.

[A]

But this is, but this is, I think, the obligation of celebrity. That, that makes me sad, which is if you're Jeremy, like at some point you gotta say, no, you don't. You know, I wonder actually when you sort of, what's your Goldilocks level of celebrity at this point? Because that is like drawing a picture of your own wife is too famous.

[B]

Honestly, I don't think about it. And I, I do think that people like Jeremy who are very focused on a craft. I'm lucky to be focused on stand up comedy. I don't think about getting famous. I don't think about getting clips. I just want to write a funny joke. So, you know, sorry, this is a roundabout.

[A]

It's just the most Asian thing you could possibly say.

[B]

No, it's a craftsman thing. I don't know if it's Asian. I mean, I guess Jeremy and I are both Asian, but I'm sure.

[A]

But also just the dedication to like, I want to be good at this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm not here for the superficiality of it. I actually want to meritocratically earn this.

[B]

Yeah. I gotta be honest, I'm surprised when anybody recognizes me on the street. I'm shocked when someone's like, oh, I saw you on the thing. I'm like, you watch that?

[A]

You're genuinely shocked.

[B]

I'm genuinely shocked.

[A]

I've been in a Marvel movie.

[B]

Yeah. But we have small roles. Like, I genuinely am am shocked when anyone's like, I saw your standup comedy or I saw you on the Daily Show. Because a lot of times the Daily show, it feels like we're making a show for ourselves in A. In a good way. It's like we're making a school play. That's what it feels like. It feels like we're like, hey, we're just doing it for, like, in this building, this weird, you know, little, like, comedy performance piece.

[A]

How are you with people who say stuff like that? Is it a fun interaction?

[B]

Unfortunately, I'm not great at it because I think the humility makes people think I'm being arrogant.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So people will come up, be like, hey, are you the guy? I'm like, oh, no, I don't know if I'm the guy. I don't know who you're talking about. Like, I don't know who you mean.

[A]

Are you. Are you the crazy, rich Asian?

[B]

They'll be like, are you that person? And then I'll be like, I don't know if I'm that person. I don't know who you're thinking of. You know, and my wife is always like, just say you're freaking.

[A]

Stop gaslighting them.

[B]

Yeah, no, I'm not gas. They don't. They're not specific enough. And the lawyer in me is like, well, I don't want to freaking tell you. I don't want to assume that I'm the person that you're thinking of. Maybe I'm not. You know?

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So. So I. So they'll be like, are you that guy? I'm like, no, I don't know if I'm that guy. Probably not.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now I can see why your wife.

[B]

Is like, just say you're the guy. Just say you're Pablo to again. And then just say a public.

[A]

That's right. And then. And then they'll be confused again, as always. Like, so why is the Mexican guy with the Chinese face talking about sports? Why is he on this?

[B]

You've never solved that issue. No. There's 20 years in the game now. You've never solved the. Why are you a Chinese guy of a Mexican name?

[A]

Literally one of my book. So Google Chrome, I used to use it in a way that was, like, sort of more rigorous. And I used to have these bookmarks and so bookmarks toolbar. This is not something I prepared for you. Look at what's flowing. Floated over that. That's a Yahoo. Answers.

[B]

Pablo Estore. Mexican, Asian or American? It's the worst phrasing of that question. The. The Or American or America is the best punchline for that. Yeah. So why don't you answer it?

[A]

I'm Mexican, dude. I was in a pilot that you Taped.

[B]

Yes, I know. I appreciate it. Yes.

[A]

Can we talk about that pilot or.

[B]

Yeah, I think the statute of limitations has run out on that two years ago. Yeah. We should talk. We never got to talk about it. That's right.

[A]

So when I want to. So I was trying to actually start with that, because the reason that you have been genuinely frustrated as well as artificially gassed up to be frustrated by me about this whole Levitar thing is because you are a sports fan to the degree that you filmed a pilot in which the concept was. What?

[B]

I was the general manager of the Brooklyn Nets. That was the pilot. We filmed it. We actually filmed it. We didn't just write it, we filmed it. Pablo made a cameo in it as the sportscaster at the start. You know, when you have real, like.

[A]

Sportscasters, I think, ambiguous sports anchors.

[B]

Yeah. And you and Jaylen did it. For me, I was really appreciative because it was. It wasn't easy to get you guys, and it came down to the wire and. And luckily, the synergy of Disney Hulu came together and you guys jumped in. I was really appreciative.

[A]

It was really fun for me to theatrically yell about you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But. But the premise, like the log line of Ronny Cheng becomes Brooklyn Nets general manager, frankly, I was in. Based just on that sentence.

[B]

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. It was a fun idea.

[A]

But also, like, what. What. What is most sad to you about the pilot? Spoiler alert. Not being picked up.

[B]

We had a lot of great themes in it. You know, it became this kind of way of addressing bigger themes in America in a very fun way. Foreigners being asked to take over a very American institution because they determined that we were the best at it because I had won my. My character won championships in the Philippines. And so.

[A]

So I didn't know that part about.

[B]

Yeah, so the. So the owner was.

[A]

Now I'm even madder about this.

[B]

So the. The owner owned the. In the story, the owner owned the team in the Philippines and several other teams and. And the Nets. And so because I won so many times in the Philippines and the Nets weren't doing so well in the. In the pilot, he would. He brought me over. So he stuck his neck out to bring me over, even though everyone was like, this guy is not appropriate for this league because he's been. You know. So that was the. That was the pilot. Yeah.

[A]

I could have played so many different extras.

[B]

Yeah, you could have been the sideline. You could have been.

[A]

I could have been again the 40th Filipino guy in the flashback.

[B]

You could also have been the annoying podcaster who's, like, talking about the team and season two.

[A]

I would have been radicalized. I would have been selling crypto and supplements and hated you.

[B]

It'll be really funny if every season, like you start off, because we started you off as the ESPN anchor, that every season you just goes from ESPN anchor to podcaster to just like.

[A]

Like this guy just like yelling at people. I've clearly just got insane. Yeah, Yeah, I. I loved. I loved that concept.

[B]

Thank you. I loved it too. We loved it too. We put a lot of heart and money into it. And we. We had. Dennis Leary was the main antagonist.

[A]

So this is me learning this, finding out about this for the first time, like, what this would have been. I didn't know any of this.

[B]

Yeah, Dennis Leary was the main antagonist. He was great. He was my. He was my assistant gm, so I got hired over him. He got passed over.

[A]

So he would love to have seen Dennis Leary.

[B]

He was the best. He was the best. And not just on screen, but he was a great guy off screen as well. He saved the pilot a little bit because we came to him quite last minute, and he's not someone who. He's a great guy, but he's not someone to do a charity project. So he liked the script and then he came on board and he understood what we were trying to do, and it was great. He loves basketball. He was the traditional, like, ex player, became assistant gm, and I'm like this, you know, dumb young kid. And it was. Yeah, it was great.

[A]

Do you think that you would be a good front office executive?

[B]

I don't know that. You know, when I was in college, I fantasized about going into sports. You know, whether it was. That's why I admired you so much, because you were the guy who made it. I was watching you in Australia, like, oh, man, this guy's in the system. He's in the ESPN around the Horn industrial complex. Yeah, he's writing the thing. I think for me it was either going to sports journalism or maybe try to become an analyst, because I had a law degree. So I was like, hey, maybe I could become an analyst for a sports team. The way. What's that baseball movie?

[A]

Moneyball.

[B]

Moneyball, Yeah. I was even Moneyball, because at. When we were in college, analytics was just coming up.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

So it was almost like a way for geeky guys to get into sports.

[A]

Back in my day, right when this was like the beginning of the analytics boom in sports, I got credibility Because I was Asian. Seriously, I would be moderating these panels at the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference, basketball analytics, with like these GS. And they're assuming that I could like, double check their math. And I'm just like, I.

[B]

So you, you wrote the Jeremy Lin and Analytics wave just because you are Asian?

[A]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[B]

What do you think is your. Your strength then, from Harvard?

[A]

I don't, I don't, I don't.

[B]

What are you good at that?

[A]

Uh huh.

[B]

Like, what do you think?

[A]

Analogies.

[B]

Okay. Analogies. I guess that's a skill. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I mean, truly, like the. What I felt my superpower was was writing. If you gave me time to write something, I could create something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I could hang with the best students at the best college was my confidence.

[B]

Yeah. So what?

[A]

Why, why don't you use podcasting instead of writing?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now, now, now you have become my mom.

[B]

But I've been saying this since I first stepped into this studio like three years ago. I've been like, why are you doing this?

[A]

Have you heard about magazines and how they're dead now?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And how people are paying former NFL players to speak into microphones.

[B]

It's not about the money.

[A]

Isn't it though?

[B]

No, but this is January. What I want to ask is there's not so much a dig at you.

[A]

But like, no, it's, by the way, a valid question and insecurity.

[B]

Both. Oh, sorry. I guess I managed to find it the. I. Because I. I met up with the Free Daco guys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it turns out one of the Free.

[A]

When did that happen?

[B]

Yeah. One of the Free Taco guys is married to a writer at a Daily Show, Sophie Zucker. So Sophie will keep telling me, like, hey, do you like Free Taco? I'm like, how did you know that?

[A]

Right. So Freedaco for. How do you explain Freedoco for people who don't.

[B]

Free Daco was like, your NBA and.

[A]

Your credibility is off the charts right now.

[B]

Guys, this is what I want to talk about. Don't get me on your stupid show to jump on a. On a speedboat with some guy who doesn't like me. You know, I mean, like, let's talk about something in depth anyway. I know you're going to clip that. Go for for it, producers. I didn't even know that this was Dan Libertad's company.

[A]

Kind of like in his basement.

[B]

Yeah. I can't even believe that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A good thing you didn't open it. I probably wouldn't have come, but the Free Darko was like, the first elevated sports writing that I saw, I think that happened in American culture that kind of merged pop culture with specifically basketball.

[A]

On the Internet with cool graphics.

[B]

So they were kind of like the precursor to Grantland in many ways. I would say a bunch of the.

[A]

Grantland people came out of that coaching tree. J. Caspian Kang, another great Asian American writer who still writes, wrote for free Dark a blog for them.

[B]

Yeah. And so they would do, they released a book, you know, with graphics. They would do these really fun analogies of like, you know, players and figures in pop culture, compare them to movies, and then they would combine it with these really cool graphics. And I never seen anything like that before.

[A]

So now you've described something that is omnipresent. Back then it felt revelatory again. It was on a. I think it was also on like blogger.com.

[B]

Yes, it was on Blogger.

[A]

It was like, yeah, one of these blog spots.

[B]

They spawn, they spawn books and, and T shirts and ultimately I guess they never transitioned into the new social media era.

[A]

And God, God bless them, they, they, they, they, they opted out at probably the right time, the wrong time, to be honest.

[B]

They opt out. Right. The wrong time.

[A]

If they had just kept wrong for the capitalism of it. Right. For the psychology of their own. Well.

[B]

Oh, why, why'd you say that?

[A]

Because I think just creating content right.

[B]

Now is a nightmare. Like look at us right now.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

This is a.

[A]

Just like praying we get aggregated by Jesus. Butt crack sports.

[B]

Oh man. That's what it's come down to now.

[A]

I mean, you're off social media.

[B]

We used to be. I'm off it. Yeah, we used to be Grantland. You know, who's that guy who wrote Breaks of the Game?

[A]

David Halberstam.

[B]

David Halberstam. And now we're trying to get aggregated on butt cracks.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, NBA Sentel. We want to get aggregated by the scammer accounts that imitate the real aggregator accounts. We are three levels beyond actual content creation. We're just eating people's regurgitated vomit.

[B]

I know. So why don't you elevate this by like making a, you know, revitalizing that, that Grantland McSweeney for spots.

[A]

Ronnie, I have to say without tooting my own horn in a not self deprecating way, please, when you're not on this show, the show is kind of doing that. We all work for tech companies.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You draw, you connect the dots back far enough and you will either soon be working for one, some conglomerate or we are competing with them, which makes media companies behave like them. And I imagine for you this is something that you also have contemplated, slash had to grapple with.

[B]

Yeah, yes, very much so. And I'm someone who, I grew up loving American institutions from afar. So for me, the NBA was an institution, the Daily show is an institution, ESPN was an institution. And so for me, I, I guess there's a certain nostalgia factor for that where I respect the institution so much. Maybe I'm romanticizing it, but.

[A]

Well, I, I, look, you're. That, that's a bit of a stump speech that I would vote for, frankly. Yeah, it does feel. I say this, I, I get asked to talk to journalism students.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

I know. No. And so what I always have to catch myself from being is like third level nihilistic about everything. Where I go immediately, they're like, they're like, no, they're like, so how do you, what should I do in the future? I'm like, well, we're all onlyfans creators now working for these soulless tech companies. And so I don't know what. And so I'm like, yeah, you want me to show some ankle? What do you want me to do?

[B]

Like, there's, I know, it's very sad. I love how you're at level three. Three level. I had to research what three level in basketball meant. Oh, sure, 2K, like level three facilitator, like Scotty Pippin is a three level. It means that you can three level score. Yeah. You can score at the basket, mid range and three point.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So you're like a three level nihilist. You can't be a nihilist.

[A]

I can, I can, I can depress a journalism student in a myriad of ways.

[B]

I love how we're talking about this because this won't make you any money right now, but I love talking about this. Here's the other factor, is that like, for me, I'm lucky with comedy. I feel like you don't worry about what people are doing, do the comedy you want to see and don't chase the algorithm or the trends. That's oftentimes when the best comedy comes out. So in your case, it's like forget what the landscape is correct. Be the change you want to see. And I just got back into reading like a year and a half ago after eight, seven years out of the game, which is, I can't believe how long I went without reading properly. Dude, reading is the perfect antidote to social media. If you feel like social media is doing you damage just reading a book or reading a news article, a long form, well written essay or article.

[A]

It.

[B]

It's the perfect antidote to it. So I think that it's actually a matter of. Of national, like imperative.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

For mental health and just, you know, for civilization that you start writing.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Yeah, it is. If you don't write, this is. If you don't do it, this is. It's just a race to the bottom of this.

[A]

Meadowlark media colon. A race to the bottom.

[B]

A race to the bottom. I can't believe the name was so innocuous. Metal lock. It makes it sound so, you know, like cheerful.

[A]

Meadowlark is a bird. This is John Skippers, by the way. John Skipper from president of espn.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

His whole thing was like the meadowlark is the bird whose song heralds the beginning of a new morning.

[B]

What a. What a. What a dressy way to hide the destruction of civilization through clip content. This is the new morning. Then someone should shoot that bird, man. Because if, if this is what it's heralding, we don't need this.

[A]

You quoted, inadvertently or not, Gandhi. When the change you want to see in the world apocryphally, at least tributed to Gandhi.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is Gandhi Asian?

[B]

Is Gandhi Asian? He's Indian. Yeah. I don't know if he's. I don't know if he's. He'll be considered classically Asian. When you see Gandhi, do you think Asian or do you think Indian?

[A]

I think. This is why I asked.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is why I ask. I'm now trying to poke holes in the coalition. I've gone from solidarity building to not trying to undermine us.

[B]

Yeah. I would argue that Gandhi himself would reject the term Asian because that's a colonial term to reference all of one continent as one people, you know, Whereas even in India, that separate people, so.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I would say you just managed to.

[A]

Make the Indian caste system woke.

[B]

I guess. I guess. Yeah. The caste system was original.

[A]

That's right. They actually understood the complexity. Yeah. The reason I am. I am attempting to segue back to something relating to our ethnicity is because interior Chinatown is something that I watched and enjoyed.

[B]

Oh, thank you. I'm very proud of that.

[A]

I chose not to read a book.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Instead, I watched this new show on Hulu.

[B]

Well, in that case, then that's good.

[A]

Absolutely. It was excellent. It was ambitious. It was complicated. It was funny. It was meaningful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And your character, I just want to point this out. Your character has some of you in it, but in other ways. I'm like, this is. This does not seem like Ronnie in real life.

[B]

Oh, thank you. I was trying to do my best to act.

[A]

Well, your character is a stoner in the show, and I don't. I don't think of you as.

[B]

As.

[A]

As a. As a. As a weed guy.

[B]

No, I'm not a wee guy. Yeah. I grew up in Singapore. We don't do weed in Singapore, so.

[A]

And I know you don't do weed because you call it doing weed.

[B]

Yeah, I don't do it. I just don't. So, yeah, I had to pretend to be a guy who does weed. I'm not saying I want someone to die. So what are you saying? Well, I'm saying if someone's already dead, I would like to be the person who'll find the body. That's weird, man. Okay, you know how in cop shows, there's usually a cold open? Cold open the first scene before the main title.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay. So for a couple of minutes, you fall in this ransom. Random character who we've never met, who's.

[A]

Not one of leads.

[B]

And part of you is thinking, why am I even watching this guy? Why are you watching this guy? You're watching because either he's about to get killed or. Oh, you've seriously never seen a cop show. How is that even possible? Video games and weed.

[A]

Okay, at one point, your character declares that Koreans are the most fun Asians.

[B]

Oh, yeah. No, I. Yeah. Do I.

[A]

That's what I wrote down. But I was stoned when I was watching it, so maybe it's, you know, not quite accurate.

[B]

Maybe that's why the writing hasn't happened. Because of the drugs.

[A]

The drugs did develop kind of concurrently with the decline.

[B]

Decline of the writing.

[A]

The writing.

[B]

Now that I think about it, I. Yeah, I probably did say that. I definitely said that in my standout special. So do you have a hierarchy of fun Asians? Yeah. Yeah, I. Yeah, watch my standout special. I described the hierarchy. Yeah, we can play this game. Yeah, I'll push. I'll push people to my. And then I'll use your.

[A]

What? I remember Filipinos were not number one. And that is criminal.

[B]

Oh, most fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, but in my standout special, they were like, second.

[A]

Not good enough.

[B]

That's not good enough.

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, well, all right.

[A]

Well, we sing, we dance. I mean, put on masks and become Jabberwockies.

[B]

Filipinos are, like, up there with the most fun. So the only reason I didn't give them the most fun right now is because I. I was arguing my Argument in my special was that Koreans right now are dominating. They are western media with, you know, music, movies and games, TV shows. Parasite. Bts. So. So that's the only reason why. But I think Filipinos were a close second in my.

[A]

I. I ran into somebody that, you know.

[B]

Daniel.

[A]

Dick. Him. I saw Yellowface on Broadway.

[B]

Yeah, me too.

[A]

Excellent.

[B]

I'm also cultured.

[A]

Yes, that's right. We love theater and books and reading.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And Daniel De Cam. Noted Korean dude is 56.

[B]

Yeah. Ageless.

[A]

I. I'm like. I am used to the trope of Asian people looking young. I have been carded at a bar in the last two years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's ridiculous.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, we will put. We will show a photo of Daniel did. Kim. And like, he should be studied.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

By science.

[B]

Yes. Him. Him and Tom Brady.

[A]

Well, Tom Brady, I mean your favorite. Your. Your demigod.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That guy had just intense plastic surgery though. You know that?

[B]

Oh, Tom Brady and plastic surgery. I didn't know.

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

I. No, I don't know.

[A]

Oh. Oh, Ronnie.

[B]

Well, now we gotta go down this ruining. Wait, let's not take away from the other day. Kim first. Yeah, yeah, down to Kim. Yes. Super fit, looks young, has two like 20 year old kids.

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

Like, also.

[A]

Also a big football fan.

[B]

Oh, yes. He used to play quarterback.

[A]

What?

[B]

You should get him in to talk about football.

[A]

I didn't know he played quarterback.

[B]

Yeah, he ran a lot of wishbone.

[A]

I got. Okay. All right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Thank you for feeding my content.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

My content. Furnace just shoveling all the time.

[B]

Yeah. He used to be a quarterback at his high school in Philadelphia.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

It's crazy. Asian quarterback.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it.

[A]

But Tom Brady, definitely. I mean, he had plastic surgery.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I mean, allegedly, I guess I should say legally speaking. But I. I'm just gonna Google Tom Brady face transformation.

[B]

Yeah, but that's just because he stopped eating sugar.

[A]

You attribute that to the TB12 diet.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You think. You think this is. This is the TB12 diet? Yeah, look at. Look. I mean, his. His jawline is. Is carved out of marble on the right and on the left. I'm just saying. Look, none of us should be so confident. No, but old Tom Brady. But come on.

[B]

No, but that's a kid coming out of college versus grown man.

[A]

That's a baby fat.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

He just.

[B]

He. The TV 12 diet, you know, and then what do you. What they call it? Pliability.

[A]

Pliability, no nightshades, all that stuff. This does provide me with a convenient segue, though, because Tom Brady, the trauma visited upon him recently. Of course, I'm not making light of this. I just want to point out that his ex wife fell in love with her Jiu Jitsu instructor.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And behind you, you walk in and I'm like, ronnie, what is. What are you bringing in here?

[B]

I gotta go.

[A]

What do you have. What do you have in that bag?

[B]

I'm going straight to Jiu Jitsu.

[A]

Can you show. Can you show us the bag?

[B]

Oh, okay. You all. Actually, I. I picked up this ghee at random, but you'll love this one.

[A]

This is again, as always with Ronnie, like, I have no idea what this is. It's unplanned.

[B]

Look at that.

[A]

That is.

[B]

It's that neon.

[A]

Nick's gay Roddy Chang whipping out a jujitsu gi festooned with Nick's logos.

[B]

Yeah. I have this albino and I should shout out albino and prito.

[A]

Was this custom made for you?

[B]

No, no, they sold this out. Partnership. They did a collab with. With the. The NBA. So there's a few. You see, there's official logo. Okay. This is all legit.

[A]

It's ridiculous.

[B]

I didn't even realize that when I pulled it out. I just pulled it out.

[A]

I love that. The last thing you might see or the last thing your opponent might see as they lose consciousness is. Is. Is. Is a logo that reminds them of like, Carl Anthony Towns.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And. And to be honest, is on as big as on the back.

[A]

So it's enormous on the back.

[B]

If they see this, if that. If my opponent is looking at this, that means I'm going out. This is the last thing they see before they choke me up. I do want to talk about this insurance Chinatown thing real quick because I feel like I haven't done a great job of.

[A]

Of selling it to explaining what it is.

[B]

It's kind of hard to explain, but just imagine it's guys is too. Too. Well, it's a bunch of people who are in a TV show and they're unaware that they're on a TV show.

[A]

Right. Like Law and Order.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is like the analog for what the show is.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Police procedural.

[B]

Police procedural. Law and Order and world background characters in it. But we don't know what in a TV show.

[A]

Right. You're the guys working at the Chinese restaurant in the police procedural.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Who it turns out, have a vast universe that they are inhabiting themselves.

[B]

Yes. But they're constantly in the background.

[A]

And what's hard to explain though is the shift in perspectives. Yes. In like the. Wait a minute. So is this real? Who's aware of this?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Are the characters, are the cops aware of what they're thinking? In that way it becomes both gripping and also hard to summarize.

[B]

Yeah, it's hard to summarize, but I think that's what's cool about it. It's that it's weird and ambitious. Well, yes. We're not spoon feeding you like when you watch Twin Peaks, are you, like. Well.

[A]

I vividly remember the first time I saw Twin Peaks.

[B]

Oh, yeah? Yeah.

[A]

It was on vhs. I was doing a Christian service trip to Ecuador because I'm a good person.

[B]

Wait, what?

[A]

This is. This is in high school. This is in high school.

[B]

Wait, you're Christian?

[A]

You do service? I was raised Catholic. I went to a Catholic all boys high school.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And we went to. On a Christian service trip to Ecuador.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Which again, confusing because. Not Hispanic, but. But there I was and there was a TV with a bunch of old VHS tapes and one of them was Twin Peaks. And I had no idea what this was. We put it on one day and I just remember being almost scarred. Haunted, actually.

[B]

Right. Haunted.

[A]

But, but it's the. It's the highest compliment to compare anything to David lynch, is my point.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I mean, realistic. But. But, but it aspires to a surrealism.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That is. It's the whole thing about, like working for any tech company now. It's like, what is this show like?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And we are making comparisons to things that are elevated.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which is a compliment because that's not what you would do if you're just trying to maximize the simplicity of the elevator.

[B]

Yes. 1,000%. So how cool is it that we got to make this thing awesome with Asian guys? Just. And, And I mean, it's making a broader point as well. It's this idea that why are we background characters in the story all the time? You know, what does that mean? We're always on the background of culture in America. Right. So like, how do we navigate that? Is that.

[A]

Yes. What is that waiter in the background scene of this Law and Order episode thinking. Right, right. It's just. This is a very funny premise.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then you. The thing that makes it work though, to me, as, as a viewer was. But there is an actual mystery.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's unfolding. It's not merely beating the same drum of. This is a clever premise and there is a social Good to come out of this. It's like you're actually trying to figure out what is happening.

[B]

Yes. What is happening? All the characters are slowly trying to figure out what's happening. And it gets weirder and weirder.

[A]

Right. Why is Ronnie Chang, spoiler alert. Getting thrown into a vat of hot sauce?

[B]

No, that's not me. That's not me. That was someone. That's Jimmy. Hey, guys.

[A]

I'm here with my main man, Detective Willis Wu.

[B]

And when Willis wants something, something with a kick, he reaches for Chinese supplement. Whoa, Wait, wait, wait. Whoa.

[A]

What the.

[B]

How's the spice level? Spicy enough for you?

[A]

You throw Jimmy into that?

[B]

I throw that. You all look. That's okay. Yeah, that's okay. I understand. I understand. Coming from a Mexican can go tell the so.

[A]

Okay. So the Jiu Jitsu thing, though. Yeah, I. On. You're not on. You're not on Twitter or X or whatever, but on Instagram, I see. I see the proof of the body transformation, but more than that, the martial art transformation that you've been undergoing for how long now?

[B]

Oh, I've been doing martial arts since 2004. So, I mean, not Jiu Jitsu, but other martial arts. So I used to do Escrima, which is the Philippines.

[A]

Oh, my. Really?

[B]

Yeah. I've been doing it for a while. It's fun. It's not even about fighting. It's just good mental health, you know, And. And in a weird way, Jiu Jitsu. This could be an article for your Never to be Created, you know, Long form magazine.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Like, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu has been and totally embraced by America. Middle America. We.

[A]

We did. We did an episode early. Early on with Jay. Caspian K, actually.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

About why Mark Zuckerberg is so into Jiu Jitsu.

[B]

Right. I joke about that in my special as well. Please watch Netflix, December 17th.

[A]

I. I unfortunately do recommend that they do that.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

But there is a sort of cognitive logic, an intellectualism to Jiu Jitsu in terms of strategy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That I certainly never appreciated because I only know about it because. Oh, yeah, it's like MMA stuff now. Bjj. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is very popular. There seems to be. It's a thinking man's martial art, is the way that it was described to us.

[B]

Yeah, it is. I think so. I think because you can do uncooperative sparring every class. So that.

[A]

What does that mean?

[B]

It means that when you're. When you spar in Jiu Jitsu, you traditionally spa at the end of every single Class. And it's, there's, it's not like you're, you're both trying to win, so it becomes an actual competitive game.

[A]

Right. Practice feels like the real thing.

[B]

Yeah. And, and because of that you get like the strategy because you're, you're not just drilling mindlessly, you're both trying to win. So then it becomes like chess a little bit. So. And because you're not striking, so you don't get, you know, any long term brain issues.

[A]

Well, except for all the consciousness that you lose.

[B]

Well, no, but you, you should, you should be tapping out before that. So. Yeah. So in, in, in that sense, it's a real kind of gentleman's martial art. And. Yeah. But my, my broader point, we could talk about Jiu jitsu forever. But like, my broader point is that for some reason middle America.

[A]

Yeah. Why.

[B]

Loves it. I don't know. There's something about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and like that American something that they just go like that, you know, It's a real.

[A]

It has been startling to me as somebody whose dad, again, Filipino guy, did martial arts in the Philippines.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And put me into karate classes and taekwondo classes and stuff.

[B]

What did your dad do?

[A]

He did a little escrima. He did karate in the, in the Philippines. I think he was like a brown belt, which is the second your dad.

[B]

Could kick some butt.

[A]

I mean, as, as every Asian father must.

[B]

Right. Wow. Must be crazy if. Fight your dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But you never did it.

[A]

I, I tapped out at white belt every time. Wow.

[B]

As impressive as you are as a person, Harvard and espn, pioneering Asian American journalists, your dad is like some.

[A]

He's way better. LeBron James of Filipino urologists is what I always call him.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

This is making me feel both better and worse. Everything I've accomplished. But the point being that jiu jitsu clearly is just cool and sort of like. And obviously there's the MMA part of it. There's the ufc, there's the Joe Rogan. It's just hard to disentangle it from all of it.

[B]

American culture. Yeah.

[A]

It's so popular right now that it is a remarkable and unthinkable thing for again, an Asian American to be like, oh, middle America just loves this weird Asian art now.

[B]

Yeah. Jiu jitsu, I mean, and, and I think it has something for left people. Left and right. Yes, I think, I think the left. If you're on the left, then you do jiu jitsu, you kind of toughen up a little bit, you learn some self reliance and you kind of learn that no one can help you. You got to help yourself. It's one on one. And if you're on the right, you learn the opposite. You actually learn that, oh, there are people. You can't just be a. You have to look after other people in the class for you to have a good training session. Everyone needs to be okay. You know what I mean? And so you learn kind of putting other people before yourself, you know, not. Not going for the kill every single time, because that's not what creates a good atmosphere. And when. When you talk about Jiu Jitsu, it becomes above politics. You could be left or right wing, and if you talk about Jiu Jitsu, you bond over Jiu Jitsu. It's like a common.

[A]

Have you been workshopping this take?

[B]

No, no, but that's.

[A]

That's. I mean, but the idea of, like. I like the idea of, like, the Democratic Party, actually, the dnc doing Jiu Jitsu. It's the All Take Jiu Jitsu.

[B]

Yeah. Because I think it might be the answer to, you know, solving the divide in America is that we all sort.

[A]

Of culminate instead of an election in a martial arts tournament.

[B]

Yeah. No, no, not fight it out. It's just Jiu Jitsu might. The only common thread that could connect left and right, you know?

[A]

What are you like as a competitor, though, in Jiu Jitsu?

[B]

I'm bad. I'm bad at Jiu Jitsu. I tap early. I don't. My whole thing is don't get injured. Yeah.

[A]

Don't mess with the money maker.

[B]

Yeah, don't mess with the money maker. Tap early. I got no ego with tapping. Women, children, white belts. Everyone taps me out. I. I have no problem with that whatsoever. I'm just. My. My goal is mental health. Do not get injured. Do not injure anyone else. That's my main goal.

[A]

In interior Chinatown, there are fight scenes.

[B]

Ever since I was a boy, I've.

[A]

Dreamt of this moment. Practicing, waiting to step into the. I wonder, when you were doing those fight scenes, was your Jiu Jitsu training helpful or no? Were you actually throttling what you knew because you weren't a guy who was a Jiu Jitsu student?

[B]

I mean, Jiu Jitsu helped in so far as body control, but we were doing. I was like, throwing phone at someone's face. Like, you know, Jimmy was like.

[A]

Like Jimmy Oyang, who.

[B]

Yeah, Jimmy Yang's in a crescent kicking. There's no kicks in Jiu Jitsu, but it definitely helped with body control. And like knowing how to move and it, it was. And most of the fight scenes was the stunt guys making us look good. So shout out to the stunt guys. But yeah, I think it's a very cool show and very ambitious and uh, I hope people check it out and they like it. Cuz, uh, it's. It's rare to make something original IP like that. That's just ambitious.

[A]

It's based on a best selling book.

[B]

Based on best selling book. So it's free market tested.

[A]

Books.

[B]

Yeah, books.

[A]

If there's anything that we've learned on today's episode of Pablo, Tori finds out, it's that we should prioritize books.

[B]

Yeah. I seriously doubt anyone watching this clip on Instagram has read a book in the last five years. I'm happy to be proven wrong. Write in the comments, the books that you read.

[A]

Yeah. Sound off in the comments, the last book you read.

[B]

I will never see any of those comments, but it will help the video make some money.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is the point of this.

[A]

Yeah, I guess. Ronnie, thank you for a session of uncooperative sparring.

[B]

No problem. Oh, yeah, there you go.

[A]

See?

[B]

And I. Thanks. Thanks for having me on again. Always. Great to see you. I'm a huge fan. Remain a huge fan. I've been a fan of yours since college. It's so. It's surreal to actually meet and talk to you sometimes and see you face to face. And I love your writing. I hope you can get back.

[A]

Okay, that's enough though. I think. I think the point's been made.

[B]

All right. Yeah. So I'm beating a dead horseman, but yes, I love everything you do. Except for this.

[A]

Yeah, the feelings are mutual. Except I love this. Pablo Torre Finds out is produced by Walter Averoma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Dawig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, neely Loman, Rob McRae, Rachel Miller, Howard Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, Chris Tominiello and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RG Systems. Our sound design by NGW Post. Our theme song, as always, by John Bravo. We will talk to you next time.