← Pablo Torre Finds Out
Pablo Torre Finds Out
The Big Gay Myth of Masculinity in Sports, with Mississippi's Own Jay Jurden
00:47:32
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- [00:01]
Pablo Torre
Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. Presented by Ebay Live, I am Pablo Torre, and today you're gonna find out what this sound is.
- [00:08]
Jay Jardin
Ole Miss versus Miami. Someone was like, who do you think's gonna win? I was like, the coke dealers. That's who's gonna win. I don't know. Bolivians and Colombians right after this ad.
- [00:20]
Hayden
Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan. Fellas, I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [00:28]
Stephen
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball, but you can call me the Smash.
- [00:32]
Hayden
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [00:40]
Stephen
That's right.
- [00:41]
Pablo Torre
Hey.
- [00:41]
Stephen
Hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
- [00:45]
Hayden
And along the way we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [00:53]
Stephen
Newsflash, I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy Fanfellas wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:02]
Pablo Torre
So before we jump into today's episode, a quick shout out to our sponsor, eBay Live. EBay Live is where real time excitement meets rare, exclusive, hard to find cards, collectible sneakers, watches, and so much more. You can bid in live auctions, catch exclusive drops, buy directly from trusted sellers while it is all happening live. And it feels fun and interactive like a show, not just shopping with great hosts, creators and streamers. So download the Ebay app and tap the Ebay Live button to tune in today. This episode of Pablo Torre Finds out is brought to you by Bill, the intelligent finance platform that helps businesses and accounting firms scale with proven results. If you run a business or manage finances for your clients, you know how much goes into payments both into and out of your account. It can be stressful and tough to keep track of every little thing, but luckily, Bill is changing that. With AI powered automation, Bill removes the busy work from your accounts payable workflow they handle. Capturing invoices, routing approvals, and syncing with your accounting software so that your team can focus on growth instead of paperwork. And with over 90 of the top 100 US accounting firms trusting Bill to simplify and secure bill pay processes, you know you're getting the best. So stop the guesswork and start scaling with the proven choice. Go with the company that has securely processed over a trillion dollars in real transact, simplifying financial operations for nearly half a million customers. And if you are ready to talk with an expert, visit bill.comproven and get a 250 gift card as a thank you. That's bill.comproven. I feel like you do a bit of the math that I do sometimes, which is how much do I sports it up right now?
- [02:50]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [02:51]
Pablo Torre
And you, your dial on that goes so much higher than I think people are ready for.
- [02:57]
Jay Jardin
Pablo it can go from full on like you know, Hell's Kitchen gay, which is close to zero, all the way to like if I go to Oxford for a game, if I go to Tuscaloosa for a game, I'm turning it all the way up to sec.
- [03:07]
Pablo Torre
Full SEC is a dangerous. I don't think New York City in general is prepared for full sec.
- [03:12]
Jay Jardin
I think that if people understood how much energy, time, money and cultural identity was rooted in in these 18 year old black kids across the southeast, they'd be like, oh, it's the 1840s again. These, I mean these young, strong black men in the south are propping up economies. I mean you've done, you've done the research. You know, a lot of these SEC football coaches are the highest paid public officials in their state. The SEC football is so important that Tommy Tuberville is a senator and he wasn't a great coach. He wasn't a great coach.
- [03:51]
Pablo Torre
He's being asked questions about Iran right now because kind of went 500.
- [03:55]
Jay Jardin
Exactly. Tommy Tuberville is being asked about Iran and he goes, iran. Well, we do a play action pass and they'll respect the run. Like that's what's happening right now. That's the world we live in. And I think when people are kind of surprised by it because like I, I was born and raised in Mississippi. I spent the majority of my life in Mississippi and Alabama and then I moved New York in 2015. So I know how to like really sort of swing it in a very sort of, I think American way. That's some of the most American ever.
- [04:23]
Pablo Torre
You just sort of like rolled your eyes and sort of like, you know, shook your head a bit when you said something that is so sincere. And I feel that all the time, which is that sports is my passport to everything else.
- [04:34]
Jay Jardin
Oh my God. Whenever people kind of dismiss sports, I go, you are dismissing one of the cultural prisms that people filter everything through everything. The only way you can reach a certain demographic of young men is you have to filter it through sports. The reason Shangelis is the most popular standup comedian right now is because he's a boy from Philly who loves Notre Dame and who loves the Birds. He loves the Eagles. Like, that's. There's a world where people go, why do these people fall in love with these men? And you go, oh, it's because there's these cultural signifiers that let them know you're part of this in group. And we're gonna have conversation and we're gonna have jokes that only we can get. And it amasses this following. There's a reason why people love Stavros. They go, oh, I love him so much because he's so funny. But also, he reminds me of every one of my friends from. From Baltimore who love the Ravens. Like, there's this connection that I think sometimes people dismiss, even queer people. But then queer people realize that we just do it for divas. Like, I love sports. I love sports. And the reason I'm a Yankees fan is because the Yankees are great. But also. Cause Mariah Carey. Mariah Carey dated Derek Jeter. We don't get the album Butterfly without Derek Jeter. And that, to me, is why he's one of the most important baseball players of all time, because he broke Mariah Carey's heart. And we got my all. We got the roof. We got baby doll. We got breakdown.
- [06:01]
Pablo Torre
I don't. I grew up a Yankee fan. I grew up a Derek Jeter fan against all now sophisticated sort of sports, like, nuanced sort of perspective that I aspire to have. I grew up like such a normie. Yeah, he's winning. He's the winner. He's. He's the captain. He's my captain.
- [06:17]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, he's the captain. My captain. There's a. There's this beautiful also synergy between Mariah Carey and Derek Jeter because he represented kind of Manhattan and the Bronx, and then she represented Long Island. So to me, they were like this perfect New York couple, represented everything.
- [06:31]
Pablo Torre
A relationship that was itself a bridge and a ton.
- [06:33]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, you're very good. Very good. So I grew up really liking. I grew up really liking sports. My first formative sports memories were more sports entertainment memories. And this is in my new hour. I talk about how, like, important professional wrestling was for me starting around 1999. But then I go to middle school, I want to play basketball. I go to basketball tryouts. I don't make it, but I just kind of really want to, like, kind of get engrossed with sports. And it's around the same time that all of my homeboys Eric and Evan and Benji, they're all watching SportsCenter every morning before school. So then I have to start watching Sports center so we can talk about the top 10 when I go to school. So now kind of coupled with, like, my burgeoning idea of queerness. I don't know that I'm queer. I know I'm different. I don't. I don't have the words. I don't necessarily know how to articulate that I'm bisexual, but I do know something's going on. But I know I can at least continue to have these male friends and these male relationships if I know how to talk sports with these guys. So I end up really kind of falling in love with the NBA and the NFL. There was a moment, a couple. You remember a couple months ago, when someone asked Jalen Brunson if he knew the starting five for the 99 Knicks, and he didn't know. Oh, God, he didn't know. And my gay ass knew. I was like, Charlie Ward, Kurt Thomas Sprewell, Larry Johnson. Patrick Newman was injured, so it was Marcus Camby, Ali Houston. I think Chris. I think Chris Dudley was coming off the bench. That's when he.
- [08:06]
Pablo Torre
Childs was punching Kobe Bryant in the neck.
- [08:09]
Jay Jardin
Kobe Bryant. I think Shaq dunked on Chris Dudley and air humped him.
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Pablo Torre
And Chris Dudley threw the ball at him.
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Jay Jardin
Yeah.
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Pablo Torre
Chris Dudley later ran for Senate.
- [08:16]
Jay Jardin
Yes. Van Gundy. I mean, that was the. The. That was the NBA that, like, I was introduced to.
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Pablo Torre
And so, man, I was radicalized at the same time.
- [08:25]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [08:26]
Pablo Torre
Yeah.
- [08:26]
Jay Jardin
So. So it's like, I've always, like, tried to talk about sports. I have sports jokes on my. In my special, I went to Ole Miss. So one of my favorite jokes is I have a joke where I say I went to Ole Miss. And people go, yeah. And I go, you know about Ole Miss because of what movie they say? The Blind side. They go, if you don't know, the Blind side is this documentary about this rich family from Memphis who kidnapped this large African American man in the hopes that Sandra Bullock could get an Oscar. And. And to me, that's like a very. That's. That's a fun gay joke. That's a fun race joke. That's the history of Mississippi joke. But at its core, it's a joke about the Blindside, which is based on the book the Meat Market, which was about the SEC football economy. So it's such a. To me, sports sometimes is this really cool entry point into culture and race and sexuality and masculinity that I think sometimes people just kind of askew because they think it's for dumb meatheads. And it is, but it's also for everyone else.
- [09:21]
Pablo Torre
How much did you enjoy going to Ole Miss?
- [09:22]
Jay Jardin
I really enjoyed going to University of Mississippi because it is where I met my husband. But I also enjoyed it because it really gave me an opportunity to be both, like, traditionally Southern and this, like, very aberrant form of like, you know, progressive Southerner. So I was at this huge football SEC school, but I also was in the theater department and hanging out with like, the English majors and doing this silly ass theater, but also still making. I mean, still making sure. We went to the Grove on Saturday. We would go to the Grove, so
- [09:55]
Pablo Torre
the Grove people don't know. Please explain the Grove visually and just like the sights and stuff.
- [10:01]
Jay Jardin
So it is tailgating, but not tailgating the way that a lot of non Southerners think about it. So you dress up. And part of this, it's always either tied back to the Civil War or slavery. So you dress up. And the reason why a lot of the students dress up is because at one point they were sending some of their boys off to literal war. So now people will, like, dress up for the football game because the football players are going to war. Whenever people come from outside the south, they go to like an Ole Miss or an Alabama game and they go, why is everyone dressed up? Because in every other place, you wear like a hoodie with the, with the. With the mascot on it. You wear the colors.
- [10:42]
Pablo Torre
You're not trying that hard.
- [10:43]
Jay Jardin
If you wear jeans to the Grove, oh, my God. People are gonna say, this boy ain't got no home training. This boy wasn't raised right. You can't wear jeans. That people. I mean, because there's a certain. There's a crazy amount of money also, like, involved.
- [10:58]
Pablo Torre
That's the key part, I think, is that there is, I mean, almost ancient American wealth in the way that I
- [11:05]
Jay Jardin
only saw in movies. Yeah. Yeah.
- [11:07]
Pablo Torre
I'm like, oh, is that a parasol? Yeah.
- [11:10]
Jay Jardin
You'll be wearing a cotton shirt and you'll be like, oh, yep, ironic. They're these huge sorority houses. These, like, huge but disgusting on the inside frat houses. And they all have tents in this kind of, like, area of grass right in front of the student union. And everyone tailgates before the game. And Ole Miss has always been a party school. I mean, it was Ole Miss versus Miami. Someone was like, who do you think's gonna win? I was like, the coke dealers. That's who's gonna win. I don't know, Bolivians and Colombians. So it's always been like this very flashy, hoity toity southern. I mean, think like full on Blanche Devereaux golden girls level. Turn it up. Like they go. Pablo Torre, I'm so happy to be here. I thank you so much for having me on your podcast. I can't believe that we get to discuss some. The beauty of SEC football. You know, it's the kind of person who says, well, you know your great, great granddaddy, the Colonel. That kind of person is attending this game. And they go for the longest time, they watch Ole Miss loose. They watch Ole Miss loose.
- [12:22]
Pablo Torre
Wait, so you're, when you were there, how was, how was the football team?
- [12:26]
Jay Jardin
Okay, so I was there. I was there for Ogeron. Oh yeah. So my first year was Patrick Willis's last year, Pete Willie. I got to see Pete Willie play. Seeing the linebacker that good, that fast, that strong in person. When you're an 18 year old fresh, you go, we're two different species. That's a man, I'm a child, I am. But a boy. That is a man. So getting. So we had like Ogeron and then, you know, we had, I want to say was that Houston nut Hugh Freeze. I was there through all of that.
- [12:53]
Pablo Torre
Just some, by the way, incredible names and incredible faces that you just rattled off that just surge into my brain.
- [13:00]
Jay Jardin
I saw Hugh freeze other week. It was at a strip club, but I saw Hugh Freeze.
- [13:04]
Pablo Torre
You saw Hugh freeze?
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Jay Jardin
Nah, I'm joking.
- [13:05]
Pablo Torre
No, I was going to say if you saw Hugh freeze in the wild. By the way, people are spotting at Orgeron in the wild, or at least they're posting videos of him like jogging shirtless and like very angularly.
- [13:16]
Jay Jardin
Like, he's, he's like a,
- [13:24]
Pablo Torre
He's, he's just an Adam Sandler.
- [13:25]
Jay Jardin
That's my, that is my Ed Oz.
- [13:28]
Pablo Torre
But by the way, that is a dead on Ed Orger. Yeah.
- [13:30]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [13:31]
Pablo Torre
Give credit to Alabama, man. They came back, they're a championship football team.
- [13:34]
Jay Jardin
But we knew we was going to win that game. There are going to be fans of mine who go, who is this version of Jay that I'm seeing? And they're going to be, this is
- [13:41]
Pablo Torre
why I wanted you here.
- [13:42]
Jay Jardin
They're going to be fans of yours who go, I have to look up this comic and then go watch my subject and be like a lot of D jokes. I thought we were coming here for sports.
- [13:50]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, A lot of, a lot of nut. Houston nut of a difference.
- [13:53]
Jay Jardin
A lot of Houston busting nut jokes.
- [14:12]
Pablo Torre
Wait, this is before Eli.
- [14:13]
Jay Jardin
This is after Eli.
- [14:14]
Pablo Torre
Oh, this is.
- [14:15]
Jay Jardin
Wait, yeah, this is after Eli.
- [14:16]
Pablo Torre
Eli was there in 03.
- [14:17]
Jay Jardin
Eli was there 03. Eli is also part of the reason why like I could ever even root for the Giants. I remember one of the biggest things ever was in Oxford. They had like a couple of big screen showings of that, that very important NFC divisional or championship game. It was packers versus Giants. Cause it was like it was the Mississippi Bowl. Cause it was Favre versus Eli Manning. And that was before Brett Favre showed his D and stole all that money.
- [14:44]
Pablo Torre
But this was 2008.
- [14:47]
Jay Jardin
So I remember that being a huge deal. Because Mississippi is. It's so upon that whenever there's any sort of like semi national spotlight on the state, people really do take pride. The reason people say, oh, Oprah's not from Chicago, she's from Mississippi is because we don't, we don't get anything. We really don't get it. The reason why I love sinners so much is because that's Mississippi. It's a sad part of Mississippi. It's a kind of really interesting portion of Mississippi history. It's basically the 30s when everyone was sharecroppers. That's when my grandmother was born. So Mississippi, specifically black people's interaction with Mississippi is this very fraught but just so culturally rich history. And so that's another reason why some people will be like, oh, Jay, why do you talk about University of Mississippi? Why do you say Ole Miss? Why do you. Because some people don't like it when you say Ole Miss. Now, I mean the name.
- [15:39]
Pablo Torre
Could you explain the name Ole Miss?
- [15:40]
Jay Jardin
Because I think for Bomani has talked about this. So Ole Miss is kind of connected to slavery and plantation jargon. Because on the plantation there would be old massa, the person who owned the house, and his wife or the slave master's wife would be Ole Miss. But then people kind of said, oh, University of Mississippi has a lot to say. We're gonna call it Ole Miss, kind of as this like warm southern thing. But it's related to slavery as. But I mean, like sometimes, whenever, I don't know, I'll get a comment. Cause I have like a couple of clips about Ole Miss. People like, Ole Miss is racist. I'll be like, well, I mean, the LSU Tigers were a battalion in the Confederate Army. So not to be glib, but we're all racist, baby.
- [16:25]
Pablo Torre
Well, but it also reminds me, like, if you really, if you really thought that people talked about race too much, you have no idea what people could be talking about all of the time.
- [16:35]
Jay Jardin
Oh, my God. You have no idea how hard it is to be a black SEC football coach, if you think that's what I'm saying. I mean, James Franklin, I look at the world that I sort of, like, wink and nod at, and I understand that there are these horrors and these atrocities that I'm trying to be both, like, cheeky about. But if someone wanted to have a real conversation about me, I'd be like, oh, it's terrible. It's scary.
- [16:59]
Pablo Torre
And.
- [16:59]
Jay Jardin
And I hate the fact that we can finally, you know, we can finally have these conversations and people are still scared to. But once again, sports is an entry point for that kind of stuff.
- [17:08]
Pablo Torre
The statistic that made me think of you in ways that I'm not necessarily proud of, because I was like, how many people can I talk about this statistic with? And I was like, oh, Jay Jardin could talk about this.
- [17:18]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [17:19]
Pablo Torre
Just the fact that there are zero out NBA, mlb, NHL, NFL players.
- [17:26]
Jay Jardin
Yeah. Well, they always come out after they retire. They always come out after they retire. Or. I mean, we had the Michael Sam situation. Michael Sam. Interesting. I mean, I had a joke whenever that was first going on where I was like, oh, I mean, it's really tough. It was tough for him to, like, find his way in the league because for his position, he was undersized and he had trouble penetrating and he wasn't that good of a football player. That. That to me is kind of like the sweet spot of where I like my jokes to go. If I'm, like, hanging with the boys, if I'm like, if I'm trying to get on barstool. But, like, it is. I'm kidding. But there isn't. Me and Dave Portnoy do not get along.
- [18:02]
Pablo Torre
I am shocked.
- [18:03]
Jay Jardin
Oh, yeah?
- [18:03]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, I'm shocked.
- [18:04]
Jay Jardin
I challenged him to a foot race the other day. No, but there is, like, there's this, like, idea that there are no gay people in sports.
- [18:12]
Pablo Torre
Well, that's. By the way, that's what that statistic is declaring.
- [18:16]
Jay Jardin
But then flip it. Because any women's sports league has anywhere from 20 to 40% of people who are out and then another percentage of people who go, I'd rather not say so. So something is amiss. And maybe it's how people self identify. Maybe people go, oh, I do gay, but I'm not gay. Maybe they're just waiting for Dwight Howard to come back into the league. I don't know. I don't know. I'm Not. I'm sorry, Dwight. I know you talk, but it is. I've been to Atlanta. It is. It is such a weird lie. It's such a weird lie, and I think it makes a lot of queer people. Gay people, queer men specifically, never come out or just not get into sports. And like, the gay boys who do know sports, they go, oh, you're an anomaly. Oh, this is so crazy. But I go, if it's all these men and they've been around nothing but other men since now, like, since they were, like, six. If you start with, like, all. Like, all of the feeder leagues and AAU stuff, there have to be people who have experimented and. Or found love in these spaces. It's the reason why he did. Rivalry is so crazy. Oh, my God. This is ins. What? What? Oh, my. All these hot men sometimes off together. Can you believe it? Pablo? I've been thinking about it. I did some research in the car on the way here.
- [19:39]
Pablo Torre
The heated rivalry thing.
- [19:40]
Jay Jardin
I.
- [19:41]
Pablo Torre
That. This is the. This is the part of the conversation that I feel like I hopefully can bring something to, which is that if you do enough reporting around the athletes who have dared to come out of the closet and then have sometimes gone right back in.
- [19:55]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [19:56]
Pablo Torre
There was a. There's a college basketball player named Derek Gordon, and he was not. He was the first D1 men's college basketball player to be out and active.
- [20:03]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [20:03]
Pablo Torre
And I interviewed him, and this was. He went to UMass and he was out, and they transferred to Seton Hall.
- [20:08]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [20:09]
Pablo Torre
And he stopped talking about it.
- [20:11]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [20:12]
Pablo Torre
And I interviewed him in between.
- [20:14]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [20:14]
Pablo Torre
And Seton Hall Catholic School in New Jersey.
- [20:17]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [20:18]
Pablo Torre
I profiled him, and part of the premise of the profile was however. However comfortable or safe you thought it was because this guy existed. Just know that he's basically decided, I can't. I can't be out anymore.
- [20:32]
Jay Jardin
Yeah. And what a shame, right? Seton Hall Pirates. He couldn't even go after that booty. Couldn't even go after that booty publicly. That's a shame. That's a shame before God.
- [20:41]
Pablo Torre
Tri State.
- [20:42]
Jay Jardin
Tri State. Yeah. Try it. No, I imagine not being able to be gay in Jersey. That's wild. That's wild. I think that there is this, like. There's this idea. You'll be a distraction to the team. And, like, I don't. College teams hate distractions. Pro teams hate distractions. But also they hate this idea that any one of their players could jeopardize the masculinity of the team. He's not out. And I don't know if he's queer. I don't think he's queer. But we're seeing this. We saw this happen with the Sixers and now with OKC, with McCain.
- [21:17]
Pablo Torre
So Jerry McCain.
- [21:18]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, with Jerry McCain. We see people, and we see it. We saw it happen a little bit with Caleb Williams. There's this idea. Both.
- [21:24]
Pablo Torre
Both fingernail painters, both.
- [21:26]
Jay Jardin
Both African American men who paint their fingernails and who are younger who also are not necessarily locking themselves in these boxes of masculinity the way that a lot of players have had to for the past however many years. And we see this huge backlash from fans of theirs who go, oh, my God, why you gotta be gay? Why can't you just throw that football and put your hands underneath that big guy's nuts and butt? Why are you doing gay as a quarterback when you're supposed to be touching your center's ass? You do not. This gay stuff. No, I need to see you in a jock strap in the locker room afterwards. Why are you being gay, man? And that, you know, that sort of cognitive dissonance really. It really infects the league, and people get so much hate, and people get made fun of. Jerry McCain is doing an amazing job of trolling the haters and crushing it. I think SGA also has to deal with it.
- [22:24]
Pablo Torre
Well, there's. There's a queer coded.
- [22:26]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [22:27]
Pablo Torre
That the younger athletes are enjoying.
- [22:29]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, yeah.
- [22:30]
Pablo Torre
Ways that our generation. Yeah. Too, too, too afraid.
- [22:34]
Jay Jardin
You get to see Kyle Kuzma coming down the tunnel and any. Any sort of outfit that giant do. The pink sweater. I mean, I think part of it is there's a generational kind of like, unburdening for these young men because they don't. It's both. Style of play has changed a bit. The idea of what an athlete is and the idea of how tough an athlete has to be has also changed a bit. Also, these. These athletes, they want to be fashion girlies. They want brand deals, they want sponsorships, they want GQ covers.
- [23:11]
Pablo Torre
And there's also a lot of. I learned it from you, Dan.
- [23:14]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [23:14]
Pablo Torre
Like, they saw all of their. All the previous generation and you. Dude, we saw the NBA that we grew up watching. Go from, you know, the two tall tees to the dress code to then the people wearing polo and fluffy and wanting to be on gt.
- [23:30]
Jay Jardin
You got.
- [23:30]
Pablo Torre
You.
- [23:30]
Jay Jardin
You got to look at that first. You got to look at LeBron's draft outfit, to him wearing Tom. A Tom Brown shrunken suit. Those.
- [23:37]
Pablo Torre
Those shorts.
- [23:38]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [23:38]
Pablo Torre
And you see LeBron wearing the suit Patrick shorts.
- [23:41]
Jay Jardin
But even LeBron there's a recent clip getting shorts that were too short. He was like n give these to Bronnie. These a little bit too short for me. So I think as as the NBA
- [23:51]
Pablo Torre
a literal from you dad.
- [23:53]
Jay Jardin
As the NBA continues to move forward, I think the shorts will get shorter and eventually we will get, we will get some some booty shorts. And that's, that's when I'm going to be hopefully that's when I'm famous enough to play in the All Star Game. That's when I want to be in the Celebrity Ruffle Celebrity game. I can't wait.
- [24:09]
Pablo Torre
Ready for J There it is. If you think ebay is just a marketplace, you are missing a whole side of it. Ebay Live is where real time excitement meets rare, exclusive, hard to find cards, collectibles, sneakers, watches and so much more. You can bid in live auctions, catch exclusive drops and buy directly from trusted sellers. While it is all happening live and it feels like a show, not just shopping with great hosts, creators and streamers. Stream, shop and score by downloading the ebay app and tapping the Ebay Live button right under the search bar. So I just heard something that totally shocked me recently, which is that teens spend an average of 9 hours per day on screens outside of school, which basically is a full time job of just scrolling mindlessly. And there are also tons of studies that show just how bad that is for them. From feeling overwhelmed or worse about their lives to high risks of depression and anxiety. Teens and phones just do not mix. And with daughter myself I am constantly worried about when she reaches an age where we gotta have the phone talk. But here's the good news. Gab Wireless has solved the problem by doing something no one else is doing. Their approach is tech in steps. Tech in steps works by providing kids safe phones and watches with no social media and tailored to every age, offering the right device at the right time. From GPS tracking enabled watches for young kids to increased features and parent enabled apps on the phones for tweens and teens. Each device allows them to safely grow their independence. The bottom line? You don't have to give your kid a device that was made for an adult. Get them Gab which keeps them socially connected safely, which means no social media and no Internet apps. Gab just makes sense to me. So use our code to get the best deal on something that'll make parenting easier and give you peace of mind. Visit gab.compablo torre and use code Pablo Torre For a special Offer. That's gab G, A, B, B.
- [26:12]
Hayden
Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [26:20]
Stephen
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball, but you can call me the Smash Daddy.
- [26:24]
Hayden
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [26:32]
Stephen
That's right.
- [26:33]
Pablo Torre
Hey.
- [26:33]
Stephen
Hey. So each week, you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
- [26:37]
Hayden
And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [26:45]
Stephen
News flash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy Fan fellows wherever you get your podcasts.
- [27:00]
Jay Jardin
I'm very happy that these young men who are younger than me, that they feel freer. I think that, like, on the court, you know, the worst thing that an opponent can call you is like a. Or a punk or a sissy and say, you're not a man. Like, that's still the. That's still the go to. That's still the go to. If not, you're a horrible player.
- [27:17]
Pablo Torre
And by the way, as much as Kayla Williams is doing some of the coolest things we've ever seen on a football field while painting his nails and crying and presenting in all of these ways of traditionally femme. Yeah, he still is. I mean, and he is. He has a. He has a. A girlfriend. And. And so good for him. But the point being, there still aren't any out athletes.
- [27:40]
Jay Jardin
No one's out.
- [27:41]
Pablo Torre
And. And the comeback that calling someone a gay slur has made in the last couple years.
- [27:48]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, it's.
- [27:49]
Pablo Torre
It's. It's.
- [27:49]
Jay Jardin
It's.
- [27:50]
Pablo Torre
I'm back in high school.
- [27:51]
Jay Jardin
Well, Pablo, I know I said sports is kind of one prism we filter everything through, but the other one for me is comedy. So sports and comedy are in this very interesting battle where they're both trying to progress but also regress. Because there's this idea of this kind of idyllic Eden, back when you used to be able to say whatever. We used to be able to be men. We used to do all this stuff. So people who wanna bring back. Who wanna bring back the r Slur, they are kind of saying, oh, while we. If we go back to saying these things, then people will be normal and their behavior will be modified because they will have the fear of being called gay, the fear of being called intellectually different. So they think it's gonna help them. And part of the reason that's happening with comedy and with sports is because the one sport that comedy seems to be obsessed with, it's not the NFL, it's not the NBA, it's not the mlb, it's not hockey, it's mma.
- [28:52]
Stephen
Yeah.
- [28:52]
Jay Jardin
And it's so funny that a lot of these white boy comedians, the two things they love the most are, like, MMA and pro wrestling. One is so real and one is so fake.
- [29:01]
Pablo Torre
It is. So for people who don't know this, like Joe Rogan, to go back to the point you made earlier, Joe Rogan started his podcast, started his whole career in. In media.
- [29:11]
Jay Jardin
Yeah. As the MMA guy, not just as an MMA guy. MMA enthusiast, MMA announcer, color commentator.
- [29:20]
Pablo Torre
Yes.
- [29:20]
Jay Jardin
He wasn't just a guy who watched mma, he analyzed mma. He was the person who made everyone start taking bjj. Like, he. He was a. He was an acolyte of the Gracie School. He was one of these people who, like, was an evangelist. He was an acolyte of MMA for the masses. And so he has also captured this huge group of young men who think that now they all have to grapple, that they all have to learn how to strike, that they all have to learn how to be MMA fighters. They go, oh, because, like, someone's out to get you. And it's so funny that that specter of someone out to get you has now infiltrated their minds. They actually think that it's. It's a very. It's a fascinating cultural case study. If it wasn't so, like, messed up.
- [30:02]
Pablo Torre
But there's also a lot of. Just like, you know me thinks the podcaster doth protest too much.
- [30:08]
Jay Jardin
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [30:09]
Pablo Torre
When you. I mean, look, in MMA and wrestling, as much as those are some of the most homophobic sports.
- [30:15]
Jay Jardin
Yes. In terms of the physics, in terms of the grappling. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [30:20]
Pablo Torre
Just like the sheer. We're going to hug each other.
- [30:22]
Jay Jardin
This is an exclusive I'm gonna give you. I'm doing my new hour currently, and one of the things I do say is that, controversially, I would hook up with Joe Rogan, not because I want to, but just to ruin his reputation. And we do a little MMA of our own. MMA stands for mouth meat ass. We do a little bjj. We do a little ground and pound, if you know what I'm talking about. Pablo, you understand? Like, that. That's in the new hour. This is a new Hour. But there is this idea.
- [30:48]
Pablo Torre
But Rear Naked Chokes is like, that's not even a.
- [30:51]
Jay Jardin
That's just the term Rear Naked Choke, baby. Were you an animal with me last week? Rear Naked choke. This horse meet disco. So I, I know that these men understand both like the power and the beauty of the male form. Yes. There's an appreciation of men, of masculine masculinity, of perfect male bodies. So it is very funny to watch as an out queer man. See these people be so homoerotic, but also so homophobic while also, and this is the funniest part to me, while also pursuing the arts. At the end of the day, if you want to be a standup comedian, you are a person doing a monologue. You are a couple of traumatic stories away from doing a one person show.
- [31:38]
Pablo Torre
Yeah. You're basically actually doing Shakespeare.
- [31:40]
Jay Jardin
You're doing Shakespeare damn near. You're soliloquizing. You're a monologuing to these people. And there is this idea that what you're doing is so different and so manly. And I think that's a crock of. It's so funny.
- [31:53]
Pablo Torre
Oh, it's exit pursued by a bear, but just in a different way.
- [31:56]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been pursued by some bears, Pablo. I, I was on a gay cruise for a week. Polar bears are not extinct. They are thriving with their Cambodian boyfriends.
- [32:06]
Pablo Torre
Oh, God. It also makes me think of, by the way, when I'm watching Tom Brady.
- [32:13]
Jay Jardin
Yeah. Oh, Tom Brady. Tom Brady.
- [32:16]
Pablo Torre
Speaking of, I'm not saying Tom Brady's in his bear phase, but there's something happening.
- [32:21]
Jay Jardin
He's not a bear because he's so hairless. Tom Brady is in his older, wealthy bachelor of a certain age phase. Where I see pictures of Tom Brady. And if I saw Tom Brady and it didn't say Tom Brady said a different name, I'd go, I saw that man on Fire island buying art. I saw him buying erotic art, which is just these beautiful kind of like silhouettes of the male form to put up in his second Fire island house. His face is so structured and gorgeous. He's constantly posting shirtless. I think I've seen his nipples more than I've seen his eyes lately. He is in this very sort of like, like sexy, older, very divorced, very single, very publicly sort of like, I don't know, attractive older man face. And these men, they love Tom Brady in a way that is just so, if, you know, for lack of a better word, and I mean this in the most objective way, gay. They are in love With Tom Brady. Tom Brady can do no wrong to these men.
- [33:28]
Pablo Torre
And this is why, like, why is the. Why is the f. Slur making a comeback? It's because in many other ways, guys have been never more open about what they think is beautiful when it comes to, certainly, athletes.
- [33:43]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, athletes. I mean, it's. You see, with the younger generation, with the clavicular of it all, but there's always been this appreciation and this kind of, like, judgment of the male form. Perfect, perfect segue. It's happening right now. It happened less than a couple days ago. One of the most watched events of the entire sports year is, oh, let's get all these sexy 22 year olds together and put them in some underwear and make them run and jump for us. And let's measure them.
- [34:13]
Pablo Torre
No, we should put them in baggy shorts, though.
- [34:15]
Jay Jardin
No, no. Pablo, what's wrong with you? I want to see that butt. I got to see that bubble butt move. I got to see the intangibles. I got to see these young men working sweat for a living. Like the combine, the actual auction that he was. Well, the funniest thing about the combine is there's this part of me that my friend Henrik Blix, he was a writer with me at the Problem with Jon Stewart. Shout out Henrik Blix. He was like, there's this part of you, once you get into your 30s, where you go, I kind of want to do a combine. I kind of. I want to see. And you always see the clip where some sportscasters, some, you know, sports media person, some sports writer, some person who's covering a specific beat in the city, they have their combine. It goes terrible for him. It goes terrible for him. You're like, I was in the gym the other day. I was like, let me make sure I can, like, get up 185. Just. Just because I don't want to be Kevin Durant, let me make sure I can, like, do some of this. Do some of the stuff that I'm, like, judging people for. But, yeah, the combine is another celebration of how strong and fast and sexy and talented men are.
- [35:19]
Pablo Torre
I did a story on this when I was at espn. There is. This is not an exaggeration. There are many, many professional scouts whose job is to assess these young men's butts.
- [35:31]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, yeah.
- [35:32]
Pablo Torre
Because the butt, as you know, Jay, that.
- [35:34]
Jay Jardin
That's what I'm doing after I retire.
- [35:37]
Pablo Torre
It's a power center.
- [35:38]
Jay Jardin
It's a power.
- [35:39]
Pablo Torre
It is where you derive so much of your athletic greatness.
- [35:43]
Jay Jardin
Oh, my goodness. Leverage, power, control, speed. I mean, do you remember DK Metcalf Combine?
- [35:52]
Pablo Torre
Of course.
- [35:52]
Jay Jardin
And people lost it because Ole Miss once again. But people went, who is this? They said, oh, my God, who is this? Who is this? This. This being this Adonis. I've never. Cause the. The really interesting thing about sports is that you have to cover it in a non gay way, but the conversations you're having are very homoerotic.
- [36:21]
Pablo Torre
Well, that's what this is. What I mean, I think that it's happening so homoerotically.
- [36:26]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [36:26]
Pablo Torre
In terms of what's happening in the actual action.
- [36:29]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [36:29]
Pablo Torre
That you're watching on camera with other men are surrounding it, of course. As well as the actual analysis.
- [36:34]
Jay Jardin
Yes.
- [36:35]
Pablo Torre
People are just like, we gotta throw in some slurs. Yeah.
- [36:38]
Jay Jardin
Oh.
- [36:38]
Pablo Torre
To balance somewhere.
- [36:40]
Jay Jardin
We gotta throw in a pause. I mean, some of my favorite compilations are whenever Charles Barkley says Shaq, them young boys, they coming. Them young boys. Them young boys coming. Oh, my God.
- [36:58]
Pablo Torre
Because sec, by the way, some more SEC everywhere.
- [37:01]
Jay Jardin
Lsu, Auburn. But it's like such a funny. It's why I want to do college game day. I mean, I hope I have this sort of career where I eventually do get to do something fun and silly like that, because I do want to throw Nick Saban and Kirk Herb street off. So I'm like, whoa, Jason. I'm like, yeah, let's. Let's be a little silly. Let's have a little fun. Because people were surprised that to kind of reclaim your heterosexuality, you do have to go on something like that. There were people who were like, oh, now I respect Timothy Chalamet because he had a great college game day.
- [37:31]
Pablo Torre
What did you. Okay. What was your scouting report of Timothy Chalamet's performance?
- [37:34]
Jay Jardin
I'm going Jackson State, eight wins in a row, 11 all conference players. It should be a comfortable, easy win for them. People don't understand that he is a New York theater kid, but he's more specifically a New York straight theater kid. So he loves the Knicks. I truly believe that. And I think he also loves watching football because he gets to have all of his kind of like, you know, artistic endeavors fully expressed. So he gets to do all of the theater kid stuff and then go be one of the dudes. He gets to do both and he gets to have this beautiful balance. So I love that for him, to me, that's the perfect sort of actor. That's what I want to see from more men. I want to see more men who feel free enough to be fashion girlies and sports girlies. And like, address all this stuff and, you know, have other interests. Like, I, if, if people ask, oh, what's Jay's top three interests? They probably go like, oh, Jay loves comedy. Jay loves X Men. And then Jay. Yeah, and then Jay. Also, they'll put sports somewhere in the top five. But like, that's like, I think a well rounded.
- [38:48]
Pablo Torre
You have a pretty similar top three in some order, honestly.
- [38:51]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [38:52]
Pablo Torre
I. I mean, one more thing on the Shalom was just it. It did feel like a guy who knew he needed to turn the dial all the way. Right?
- [39:01]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, yeah.
- [39:02]
Pablo Torre
So to speak.
- [39:03]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [39:04]
Pablo Torre
And he was like, yeah, you're not gonna. I'm not gonna sit at this table and have Nick Saban think of me as the call me by your name kid.
- [39:09]
Jay Jardin
Exactly. And I think that his ability, the kind of code switch, really, that's.
- [39:16]
Pablo Torre
That's what we're talking about.
- [39:16]
Jay Jardin
And him to be able to exist in both those spaces really made people go, oh, okay, I like this guy. Oh, I really respect this guy. And it's why he's a star, because a lot of boys can map their personality onto him.
- [39:28]
Pablo Torre
Yes. You know, in X Men, in wrestling, in the combine, we're talking about spandex.
- [39:34]
Jay Jardin
Oh, yeah. We're talking about lycra. We're talking about spandex. Yeah.
- [39:38]
Pablo Torre
And again, like, these are some of the straightest boy interests.
- [39:42]
Jay Jardin
Yes, yes. Well, it's because there's hero worship. There goes all the way back to Joseph Campbel. And myth, it goes even further than that. It goes all the way to, like, you know, Hercules. There's this idea that there's this part of you that can become this larger than life man who does all of the things that men do. And what's so funny about the Greek tradition is a lot of those men, while they did get married, they also had male lovers or male consort or people that they loved so much that they were heartbroken about Achilles. Achilles was so heartbroken at the death of Petroclus that he killed Hector and dragged his body around for days because he killed his lover. And then people were like, it wasn't his lover, it was his cousin. Sure, I'm from Mississippi. Same thing. Okay.
- [40:34]
Pablo Torre
But even there, I just love the idea that. No, no, you don't get it. What's more straight.
- [40:39]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, yeah.
- [40:40]
Pablo Torre
Than murdering someone and dragging their body around that? See, now you balance it out again.
- [40:44]
Jay Jardin
Yeah. Do you understand?
- [40:45]
Pablo Torre
You did some gay stuff, but then you murdered someone and paraded your masculinity?
- [40:49]
Jay Jardin
What's more straight than circling back on the ops for your boy. I gotta kill him. Spin the block.
- [41:05]
Pablo Torre
It is the biggest time of year for college basketball. It is, in fact, March, the time for busted brackets, underdogs that become legends, and game after game after game after game that feels like it'll come down to the final shot with surprises and comebacks and upsets. It is anyone's game. And regardless of who makes it to the final round, one thing is for certain. It takes the most talented people to build these incredible teams. And the same goes when you're hiring. So if you want your business to be at the top of its game, you need the best people on your team and the best place to find them them is ZipRecruiter. And now you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com PTFO it is no wonder that ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2. They have filters that show who's been recently active and smart matching technology that immediately finds qualified candidates that check all your boxes lets you zero in on the highest quality applicants without wasting your time sorting through a pile of maybes. So score the best for your team with ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com PTFO that is ZipRecruiter.com PTfo meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Where in the psychosocial map of America is RFK's jeans?
- [42:26]
Jay Jardin
Oh, my RFK jeans.
- [42:27]
Pablo Torre
J E A N S. Well, his
- [42:29]
Jay Jardin
jeans, the Kennedy jeans, they are shot. Those are terrible. The G E N E s. Those are bad. Bad. You know, that's horrible. But the jeans, he's out here.
- [42:38]
Pablo Torre
I mean, the exercise. Look, you go to the. I mean, if you're not following G on Instagram, you're missing a lot of. A lot of the media empire he's building. Yeah, but, but, but my algorithm is like Jay Jared it and then RFK.
- [42:48]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, yeah.
- [42:49]
Pablo Torre
Leg presses.
- [42:50]
Jay Jardin
Oh, yeah. RFK Jr choosing to do. I mean, we're gonna call them partial reps in jeans is. I mean, I think it's indicative of this culture. It's a man who has a legacy and who has, like, tons. He's a nepo baby telling us what we should do, all while showing us that he doesn't know how to do it. And he's doing it so poorly that he's a danger to himself and others. It is a perfect encapsulation of what's going on with the American experiment right now. That's like what I saw in that clip. The other thing about RFK Jr is this faux approach to health, health just through this, like, hyper masculine, coded sort of like facsimile of what they think healthy is. So instead of saying, hey, make sure you have enough protein and enough fiber and enough vegetables. But also you might need a little bit more protein if you're trying to work out because you're undergoing, like, muscular synthesis. So maybe you need a bit. Maybe you need a bit more protein if you're going through all this micro trauma when you work out. Instead of saying that, instead of being very specific and nuanced, he just goes, hey, flip this pyramid upside down. Eat more meat. Cook it. You don't got to cook that. Raw milk. Raw milk. Hell swim in sewage. There's this kind of glossing over of the details because once again, Pablo, details and specifics, they gay details and specifics. That's gay. I don't got time to be detail oriented. Just eat more meat. Like, it's such a. And then the thing about RFK Jr that no one really wants to kind of of talk about is that if you were to say, hey, if you're an older person, an older American, I want you to work out, specifically if you're an older woman, for bone density issues. I want to prevent osteoporosis. I want you to be healthy. I want you to be able to be mobile. I want you to be able to have, you know, a healthier life well into your 60s and 70s. No one's going to be mad at that. No one was mad at anyone telling older people they should stay physically. We're mad now because it's just a meme. It's the memeification of everything. And that's kind of what he ran on. I guess it was him doing incline press in Muscle Beach. But the jeans, I think, are this very sort of. I think there's this idea that, like, you remember when everyone was obsessed with Chuck Norris?
- [45:13]
Pablo Torre
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [45:14]
Jay Jardin
That's what it feels like.
- [45:16]
Pablo Torre
The joke generator.
- [45:17]
Jay Jardin
Yeah. You remember when everyone was obsessed with bacon? That's what the genes. That's what working out in jeans kind of feels like. It feels like it's just a meme turned to life and he saw that there was some sort of, like, humor in the meme. It's kind of when you don't know that you're being made fun of at first. And Then you keep doing the thing, and then people keep making fun of you, but you also just feel like, oh, this is some sort of attention. I got something from it, so I'm gonna keep doing it. If RFK Jr wanted to work out in regular workout clothes, fine. Cool. I would also love it if he didn't give everybody and they goddamn mama me refusals. So this body worship that these men are doing is like a lot of straight trends. It's gay, but it's just 20 years late.
- [45:56]
Pablo Torre
Well, it's also, I mean, to. To summarize this all in a very simple way. It's all dudes.
- [46:03]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, we're all dudes doing. Dude, have you seen the meme where it's like whenever a guy starts working out, he thinks it's gonna be all this attention from women being like, oh, God. But then the minute you get big enough, it's a bunch of dudes being like, hey, so like, what's your split, bro? What's your split? What's your. Hey, hey, what's your dose? What' your split? What's going on?
- [46:22]
Pablo Torre
But there's all. I mean, I. I just need to say this as. As somebody who has always marveled at his gay friend's use of Grindr.
- [46:30]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, yeah.
- [46:31]
Pablo Torre
Grindr.
- [46:32]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [46:32]
Pablo Torre
Is what Straight men.
- [46:34]
Jay Jardin
Yes.
- [46:35]
Pablo Torre
If they were truly honest, Pablo would be using.
- [46:40]
Jay Jardin
Pablo. Is some straight men on there right now.
- [46:44]
Pablo Torre
But, but, but the, the. Again, what's the difference? It is honest and clearly not honest. Well, okay, fair enough, fair enough. Honest in the sense that we're all here for the geographic proximity of.
- [46:58]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [46:58]
Pablo Torre
Can we optimize?
- [47:01]
Jay Jardin
Yeah, I'm gonna. And you know what? I'm gonna help you and give you the newest version of that. Sniffy's, which is even crazier because Sniffy is just a website. I shouldn't even. Ah. I'm blowing our spot up. I'm sorry.
- [47:13]
Pablo Torre
The PTFO audience.
- [47:14]
Jay Jardin
Listen.
- [47:15]
Pablo Torre
What a treat.
- [47:16]
Jay Jardin
There's a. There's a. There's. There's a newer app that is even more direct.
- [47:20]
Pablo Torre
How can you be more direct than what I understand?
- [47:23]
Jay Jardin
Grindr is a tile with a bunch of different.
- [47:26]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, please explain if you've never seen. Yeah, UI works.
- [47:30]
Jay Jardin
So it's like the. It's like a tile, a set situation with a bunch of different profiles, and you. You can kind of see where they are in proximity to you. So it's a tile. Sniffy's kind of reverse engineered it. And so instead of seeing the profiles first, you see a map first, and you see Them all pop up on the map. So that's like. That's been a crazy innovation. That's even. That's even more sort of like how
- [48:00]
Pablo Torre
far you guys invented the Cerebro for.
- [48:04]
Jay Jardin
Yes, yes. Helmet comes down. Yeah. You see it? Everyone's there. Very. It's very Professor Triple X is what it is.
- [48:12]
Pablo Torre
It really is.
- [48:13]
Jay Jardin
Yeah.
- [48:14]
Pablo Torre
The joke is, is like, of course, if straight men could have this, yeah, they would want it. The problem is that I don't think the women would want the men to have it.
- [48:26]
Jay Jardin
The women. Women cannot. That's the key part of being their location to men, because men are prone to murder these women and kidnap them. I have this very interesting relationship with queerness and male spaces because in comedy, there weren't always a bunch of out queer men. There were out. There were more lesbian and lesbian coded comics for the longest time who could achieve varying levels of success, primarily because people at least could filter them through a male lens. They go, oh, that's a female comedian. But there are parts of her that feel a bit more masculine. And she is talking about dating women. So we can't approximate some of these things with queer men. It's an aberration from the norm. And it's sort of this, like, desecration of, like, all these things are supposed to be manly so people know how to deal with us. And so a lot of times when there's any sort of representation, straight male comics over the past 10 years, they go, oh, well, yeah, Jay, I'd be more famous too if I was gay. And to those people, what I usually say is, you'd be more famous if you were gay. When I'm saying this as business advice and career advice, suck my. No, no, no, homie, I'm g. I'm helping, cuz I want you to get special. So suck my. Real quick. I'll tell some execs you gay as. You'll get it. No. Okay, well, then I guess you can just suck my dick. Metaphorically. Like, I have a great relationship with so many of my straight comedian counterparts because they've had to grow up and because they've basically realized that on the totem pole of men, they're not at the bottom, but they're still very low. Because every comic was like, I'm a man. I'm a man. Guess what? You don't work an oral rig. You don't drive a truck. You're not a professional athlete. You're not an MMA fighter. You're still a comic. Your goal, your biggest goal is to talk for an hour like a woman while wearing makeup. That's. That's your bar. So it's. It's funny that this idea that straight men both want all the gay benefits, but none of the gay fear. Cause that's kind of a tale is
- [50:34]
Pablo Torre
all this time, the fear that all these guys apparently feel in sports, in comedy, in politics, in just whatever, is
- [50:45]
Jay Jardin
not being man enough. Not being man enough. Damn. I think there's a wonderful balance that you can achieve when you can talk with Pablo about sports and talk with Pablo about sniffies. I think there's a dance that. That more of these people can do that they would feel freer in if they allowed themselves to enjoy sports on Sunday and enjoy a play on a Saturday. I want that for them. I want that to be the case.
- [51:14]
Pablo Torre
Yeah.
- [51:15]
Jay Jardin
Caleb Williams is throwing touchdowns with painted nails.
- [51:17]
Pablo Torre
That's right. Saying sniff this, saying sniffles.
- [51:21]
Jay Jardin
I want that. And. And what's cool, what does give me hope is that men in Chicago were going and getting their nails painted in support of their quarterback. And some of those men also, they didn't just get mannies, they got petties. And someone said, he didn't tell you to get petties. And they're like, I kind of just wanted to. They go, axa Jay, I've been dying to do this. That's right.
- [51:41]
Pablo Torre
That. That I think is in America. I want to believe.
- [51:44]
Jay Jardin
Yeah. That's the future. I hope.
- [51:47]
Pablo Torre
An omega level comic. Jardin, thank you for that.
- [51:49]
Jay Jardin
Thank you.
- [51:50]
Pablo Torre
The highest and definitely the straightest compliment I could pay you.
- [51:54]
Jay Jardin
Thank you. I love that a lot of omegas are gay, but thank you, Pablo.
- [51:57]
Pablo Torre
To.
- [51:58]
Jay Jardin
Thank you so much for having me.
- [52:01]
Pablo Torre
The pleasure was all mine. This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.
- [52:24]
Jay Jardin
Foreign.
- [52:38]
Hayden
Howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan. Fellas, I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [52:45]
Stephen
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball, but you can call me the Smash Daddy.
- [52:49]
Hayden
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy episode epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [52:58]
Stephen
That's right.
- [52:59]
Pablo Torre
Hey.
- [52:59]
Stephen
Hey. So each week, you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
- [53:03]
Hayden
And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [53:10]
Stephen
News flash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday and you can find fantasy fanfellas wherever you get your podcasts.
- [53:19]
Jay Jardin
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend
- [53:27]
Nikayla Matthews Akome
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- [54:17]
Jay Jardin
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcast everywhere. Acast.
- [54:24]
Pablo Torre
Com.