The Briefcase, Ballmer's Social Network and Aspiration's House of Cards: Kawhi-Gate Part VII

Summary

Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: "The Briefcase, Ballmer's Social Network and Aspiration's House of Cards: Kawhi-Gate Part VII"

Date: January 9, 2026

Guests: Amin (NBA Front Office Executive), David Sampson (Former Marlins President)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives even deeper into what’s now widely referred to as "Kawhi-Gate": the alleged $48 million no-show endorsement scheme connecting Los Angeles Clippers owner Steve Ballmer, the climate change startup Aspiration, and superstar Kawhi Leonard. Pablo Torre, alongside David Sampson and NBA executive Amin, presents newly unearthed documents, emails, and correspondences that further detail the murky relationship and raise fresh questions about what the Clippers, and Ballmer himself, knew — and when.

The episode skillfully unpacks the evidence, tracks the interconnected social and financial networks at play, and scrutinizes the ongoing NBA investigation. Pablo leverages his trademark investigative tone, combining sharp reporting with humorous asides and candid table reads with his guests, to bring listeners up to speed on one of the most complicated recent scandals in pro sports.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Aspiration Scandal’s Current State

• Recap: Since the last episode, the scandal appeared dormant publicly, but much has continued behind the scenes, especially in New York where the NBA's hired law firm, Wachtel Lipton, is running an internal investigation.
• Pablo reaffirms the seriousness, citing nine sources inside Aspiration who allege Steve Ballmer funneled $48 million to Kawhi via a secret contract, circumventing NBA salary rules. (03:32)

2. Inside the NBA’s Internal Investigation

• Wachtel Lipton, the NBA’s law firm, demanded confidentiality regarding the meeting with Pablo and David Sampson.
• Pablo brought selected documents as evidence, but is careful not to disclose anything that happened inside the meeting due to legal restrictions. (09:05)
  • Notable quote:
    “Everything that happened inside the headquarters walked out. Lipton. They cannot be described in public.” — Pablo Torre [09:20]

3. The Document Drop: New Evidence Revealed

A. Endorsement Contract Details

• KL2 Aspire LLC (Kawhi’s entity) and Aspiration’s agreement stipulated deliverables like autographed items.
  • Quote:
    “If requested to do so by company, KL2 shall cause Leonard to be available to sign 50 autographed items.” — David Sampson [11:44]
• Amin notes these kinds of deliverables suggest a real relationship, not merely a paper agreement.
• When pressed, Clippers PR refused interviews due to the ongoing investigation. [12:16]

B. Email Trail—Clippers' Awareness

• August 2022 Aspiration internal email shows clear intent to involve the Clippers in Kawhi’s Aspiration-related obligations.

  • Quote:
    “Since we haven’t publicly announced this endorsement deal...is it okay to talk about this quiet partnership with the Clippers partnership team?” — Amin (as Aspiration's DBM) [19:18]
  • Chief Legal Officer responds: “I believe the Clippers are well aware.” — David Sampson (as Mike Shukaro, Aspiration CLO) [19:53]

• The merchandise requests and the marketing coordination go through a Clippers marketing director, directly contradicting public Clipper denials of awareness.

C. Financial Ties: The Wong Wire

• Clippers co-owner Dennis Wong signed a $1.99m investment into Aspiration when Kawhi’s quarterly $1.75m payment was overdue.
  • This contribution came after numerous red flags: company default, auditor resignations, ongoing FINRA and SEC investigations. [24:05]
  • Raises question: was Clipper money used to pay Kawhi?

D. Text Evidence—Salary Cap Circumvention

• Texts between Aspiration execs reveal concern about salary cap circumvention:
  • Quote:
    “Ballmer has to be in on the take. I am so suspicious of him. Especially with the salary cap and Kawhi and just all the shady dealings.” — David Sampson (Blue Bubble) [27:04]

4. The Social Web: Ballmer, Sandberg, and Friends

• Public statements from Ballmer and his group distance him from Aspiration founder Joe Sandberg, but evidence of deep prior ties surfaces:
  • Donations from Ballmer Group to Sandberg’s charity began as early as 2018 ($1.875m donation in 2024), well before any alleged sponsorship approach.
  • Photo evidence and documents show Doc Rivers (then Clippers coach/president) and family trusts invested in Aspiration in 2018–19, predating Kawhi’s free agency.
    • Quote:
      “They have a relationship with The Clippers in 2018.” — Amin [43:29]
  • Internal Clipper-Aspiration contact and mutual investments extend back years — contradicting the "hardly knew each other" defense from Ballmer’s camp. [45:34]

5. The Penthouse Paper Trail

• Pablo traces the acquisition of a luxury penthouse by a Kawhi/Uncle Dennis–controlled LLC (Lavish Mountain) the day after its creation, purchased from Larry W. Keel, co-founder of major Aspiration investor Oaktree Capital. [50:43–53:12]
  • Significance: Demonstrates how the social/financial network facilitated player benefits, directly linking Clippers financiers, Aspiration, and Kawhi’s camp.

6. The Bobblehead Smoking Gun

• March 2023: The Clippers produce a Kawhi Leonard bobblehead sponsored by Aspiration (logo visible on the physical item), but their social media post digitally removes the logo, in contrast to past and future bobblehead promotions.
  • Quote:
    “The month before Kawhi’s aspiration bobblehead… Nicholas Batum’s bobblehead was sponsored by Cedar Sinai… Aspiration logo is missing [from social media].” — Pablo Torre [60:09–60:41]
  • Amin and David deduce the logo was photoshopped out to avoid public controversy amid Aspiration’s insolvency and mounting press scrutiny. [62:13]
• Conclusion: These secretive edits and irregularities provide strong circumstantial evidence that the team knew about — and endeavored to obscure — the tie between their superstar, their owner, and Aspiration.

7. Sophisticated, Not Sloppy

• Amin rebuts critics (like Mark Cuban) who call the scandal "sloppy":
  • Quote:
    “Look how much work and how much digging… you, Pablo, and your wonderful team had to do for us to uncover any of it. This wasn’t sloppy. This was sophisticated.” — Amin [66:17]

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Notable Quotes & Interactions

• “In our contract, Kawhi will sign 50 items… I believe Joe Sandberg will want some of the signed swag.” — David Sampson (as Aspiration CLO Mike Shukaro) [18:15]
• “The only things worth signing are NBA official game jerseys and NBA official game basketballs. I am certain Joe Sandberg will want some of the signed swag.” — David Sampson [18:15]
• "There has to be a level of knowledge, right? You don't operate independently." — Amin [21:21]
• "This social network was not only geographically tight, they were investing years before all of this." — Pablo Torre [45:17]
• "It's not everyone wants it to be like, aha, we got it. That's the house that he asked for. No, it's just demonstrating yet again, there's no way these people don't know each other." — Amin [54:03]
• "Did Steve Ballmer's Clippers know that the KL2Aspire deal existed? Were they in fact well aware and behaving so shadily because of that? ...I do think that he is nodding yes." — Pablo Torre, referencing the Kawhi bobblehead [67:10]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:30 — Pablo summarizes new sources and the gravity of the investigation
• 09:05–10:26 — Discussion on legal confidentiality and what can/can’t be shared
• 11:09–13:32 — Table reads of contracts and details of the sponsorship
• 18:15–20:20 — Email chain: "The Clippers are well aware."
• 23:22–24:34 — Stock purchase agreement; Dennis Wong's $1.99m investment
• 27:04 — Text messages about "salary cap and Kawhi and just all the shady dealings"
• 36:04–38:47 — Timeline manipulations and Ballmer's public statements
• 42:28–43:41 — Doc Rivers’ involvement and investment connections
• 50:43–54:16 — The penthouse purchase: tracing Lavish Mountain LLC
• 58:44–60:41 — The aspiration bobblehead: missing logo and Twitter evidence
• 66:17 — Amin debunks “sloppiness” critique, arguing for sophistication of the coverup
• 67:10–end — Pablo summarizes and asks "Did the Clippers know?"

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Podcast Tone & Style

• Balanced Journalism: Deep reporting combined with moments of levity and transparency about what can be shared.
• Dry Humor & Banter: Frequent jokes about legal protocol, “pupil dilation” reading lawyer-subjects, and the aesthetics of bobbleheads.
• Transparent Attribution: Table reads, document walkthroughs, and real-time reactions preserve the feeling of real investigation.

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Takeaway

This episode marshals damning circumstantial evidence challenging the Clippers’ and Ballmer’s denials of knowledge regarding the Aspiration–Kawhi deals. Carefully mapped connections — financial records, contracts, emails, digital forensics on social media — imply a sophisticated, deliberate system for channeling unsigned benefits to star players and keeping the NBA and the public in the dark. While outright intent or cap circumvention is still not written outright in any key documents, the episode makes a strong case that the Clippers’ inner circle was, at the very least, "well aware" — and actively hid their tracks.

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For Further Exploration

• YouTube: Pablo Torre Finds Out
• Instagram
• Newsletter
• [Podcast’s Previous Episodes: All parts of the Kawhi-Gate investigation]

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre and today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[David Sampson]

I believe the Clippers are well aware.

[Pablo Torre]

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[David Sampson]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[David Sampson]

Hey, it's Raj and Noah.

[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

And we're back with a new season of Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[David Sampson]

Because we're still doing a lot of stuff wrong.

[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

But who is it? That's why each week we're talking about the topics that we could all use a little helping hit with. Whether it's making new friends as an adult, managing our emotions, or even dreaming.

[David Sampson]

We'Ll be talking to experts in their fields who are definitely doing things right, so the rest of us can be a bit wiser and a lot better equipped to handle whatever life throws at us.

[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

Subscribe now and listen to new episodes of Am I Doing It Wrong? Dropping every Thursday starting January 1st, wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Sampson]

And for the first time ever, we're gonna have full video episodes on YouTube. Because as long as there are things to get wrong, we're gonna be right here. You too, I'm better.

[Pablo Torre]

Love y'.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

All.

[Pablo Torre]

This episode is sponsored by Royal Kingdom, an amazing mobile game that is super fun and free to play and also has no annoying ads if you're like me. This time of year is slightly hectic. There's lots of travel, there are all these awkward moments of downtime, and that is where Royal Kingdom comes in as the perfect escape. No matter where you are, the game is just a tap away as it does not require WiFi and is also free to play, so. So you never need to struggle with connecting to the Internet on the plane or train or car you're on. And Royal Kingdom, in case you were wondering, is a Match three puzzle game developed by the creators of Royal Match. Listeners to our show know how much Dan LeBatard has played this game, and with tons of events and thousands of levels, it has got something for everybody. Whether you're looking for something to help you relax or whether you're, you know, Dan and you want a new challenge. The levels are also the perfect length, making it possible to get a few in during those football commercial breaks. And in case you were wondering, yes, it does feature a feud between King Richard and the Dark King that is almost as intense as the Cowboys Eagles rivalry, but with significantly better graphics. So what are you waiting for? Join the fun and download Royal Kingdom on the App Store or Google Play today. We published our last episode about the Los Angeles Clippers and Aspiration about three months ago, and since then, the scandal has seemed quiet. There's been no public update from NBA commissioner Adam Silver or Clippers owner Steve Ballmer. Even Mark Cuban stopped tweeting about it. But behind the scenes, a lot has been happening, especially here in New York City.

[David Sampson]

Can't believe you got me out of the house for this.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't take your time for granted. We now have nine sources from inside Aspiration who allege that Ballmer hit a $48 million scheme to pay his superstar Kawhi Leonard through a no show contract. And that aspiration, which was also an enormous Clippers sponsor, never even announced this endorsement deal for a simple reason. The richest owner in all of sports, who had personally invested $50 million at first into this tree planting company, was circumventing the salary cap, breaking a cardinal NBA rule that tries to limit what billionaire owners can pay to win.

[David Sampson]

This is not a small investigation that started on September 3rd with us and you.

[Pablo Torre]

Team. Ballmer, however, has been telling their own version of the story. A version where Ballmer himself is the most reliable narrator of this fraud laden timeline and his secretive social network.

[David Sampson]

Just remember what we're doing here. This is their investigation, not you. Do you plan on. Do you have stuff you need to find out from them?

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, I just have this briefcase. I just need them to also have what's in here, which you have, as my attorney, been carefully advising me about.

[David Sampson]

It's their investigation.

[Pablo Torre]

Right?

[David Sampson]

And they're being paid a pretty penny to investigate.

[Pablo Torre]

Because the NBA hired a law firm, Wachtel Lipton, to do their own investigation. And so yes, that is the voice of my on air council, former Marlins president David Sampson on this Manhattan sidewalk.

[David Sampson]

In November, walking with purpose as we make them wait at 2,100 bucks an hour charging it.

[Pablo Torre]

Feel like they might not be mad after I accepted an invitation for a private meeting with the lawyers hired by the NBA commissioner to probe one of his 30 bosses who happens to be one of the Dozen wealthiest people.

[David Sampson]

In the world.

[Pablo Torre]

And just for the record, you're okay accepting like halal card as your hourly.

[David Sampson]

I want a steak dinner.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay. Well, can build that Le Guitard.

[David Sampson]

He pays for everything else.

[Pablo Torre]

Amin hasn't seen that video. Didn't know what we did.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

I remember talking about doing this. I didn't think you guys actually did it.

[David Sampson]

Oh, we did it.

[Pablo Torre]

I normally would be very verbally effusive about like, thank you both for being here. You know, has and David Sampson. We haven't done this in months.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

The three of us in studio for part seven of this series. But there's a briefcase on the table.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

There is.

[Pablo Torre]

Do not touch the briefcase. Amin, please describe though the briefcase for the audience.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

It is more of a leather satchel than an actual briefcase. When I hear briefcase, I think about the hard top, the, you know, with the locks. With the locks and the combo locks. That's what I think about. Very 1980s business guy chic. This is more the guy that works in for newspaper like that. Maybe the editor in chief. He's got a satchel like that.

[David Sampson]

Fake vintage, ink stained.

[Pablo Torre]

Hey, that's game worn. What do you mean fake? Vintage. Also, for those not watching, you should know that there are folders in front of both Amin and David. And David. Don't, don't, Please don't. For real. There is stuff in there that you have not seen either.

[David Sampson]

People love that you do this. And I've been approached about this that they love the fact that we come in here, Amin, and he surprises us. And the number one question I'm asked, do you really not know what's in the folder?

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

We're not that good at acting. Oh, my gosh.

[Pablo Torre]

For those who have not watched any of the previous many, many parts of this investigation, this is an episode that's born of what the NBA and Adam Silver, the commissioner, chose to do. Two days after we released part one, they hired their preferred law firm for its internal investigations. A law firm by the name of Wachtel, Lipton.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

And then the other two gentlemen whose.

[Pablo Torre]

Names were bastards, Rosen and Katz always get left off the marquee.

[David Sampson]

Proscour, Rose used to be Proscar, Rose, Getz and Mendelsohn. And then people were just like, forget.

[Pablo Torre]

Getzen and thank God you are here to remember them, David. That is why you as my attorney are here today to provide that level of intimate knowledge of New York corporate white shoe law. And what that video indicates, what I can now report for the first time, is that Wachtel wanted to know if I would be willing to share any of my sources, including the multiple federal witnesses you've heard throughout this series, and. Andor any of the thousands of pages of documents I've obtained from inside of that climate change startup named Aspiration, whose co founder, Joe Sandberg, pleaded guilty to wire fraud last year. But there was one big rule, a cardinal rule, David, governing my visit to Wachtel's office. Our visit to Wachtel's office in November, and as my attorney, who I requested to bring to this meeting, you can now explain what the rule was.

[David Sampson]

It was all confidential, really.

[Pablo Torre]

Not the record.

[David Sampson]

They asked whether or not we'd be doing shows, and Pavo may have said maybe. And you know what I did? I just stayed quiet because I knew this guy. I didn't know what we were doing today, but I knew he was going to do something.

[Pablo Torre]

Everything that happened inside the headquarters walked out. Lipton. They cannot be described in public.

[David Sampson]

They don't even want to describe the room, really. Like they were dead serious. Like they were. They led with this.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

You guys walk in, you sit down.

[Pablo Torre]

And they can't even say that we sat down.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

The game rules started before you sat down.

[David Sampson]

Yes, it was early.

[Pablo Torre]

When that video ends, we walk into the building. Silence. Can't say what happened. That's the rule.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

You just told me you didn't sit down.

[Pablo Torre]

I said that I can't say if I sat down.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Okay.

[David Sampson]

Are you actually going to discuss the meeting?

[Pablo Torre]

No. What we are going to do, though, is what I made peace with and why you're here today, which is that I realized that what I can do, especially for a means sake, is show you and the audience the pieces of evidence I ultimately and very carefully did decide to bring with me to the meeting.

[David Sampson]

Wow.

[Pablo Torre]

What I brought, I can describe what happened inside the meeting. I cannot. And so there is some actual new documentation that you and our audience will be seeing for the very first time today that Wachtel already has. David is laughing.

[David Sampson]

I'm laughing because that's why his folder's thicker, because I've seen it.

[Pablo Torre]

Well.

[David Sampson]

And I was. It was something I don't want to get away.

[Pablo Torre]

You haven't seen everything, though, David. And that's the key part of his episode.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

That's why you have a folder.

[Pablo Torre]

And I want to stress that the foremost priority that I had as a journalist, of course, was to do right by my sources. And this also meant ensuring that the League's internal probe, which is ongoing, clearly could not simply dismiss or claim ignorance of the growing mountain of evidence we have collected in this series, which is why I decided to do this. And yes, my reporting into this house of cards, this penthouse of cards even it continues. And some of the stuff I mean, that we brought, like the first document in the folder before you will be familiar.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Okay, this is the endorsement agreement between aspiration and KL2 Aspire LLC. It says it's effective as of April 1, 2022. And also KL2 desires to allow company to use athlete endorsement as defined below and perform certain services for company in each case subject to the terms and conditions contained herein.

[Pablo Torre]

And David, you'll remember, according to your copy of this contract, you may open your folder now as well, that there were in fact those certain services, a few deliverables that Aspiration bought.

[David Sampson]

The right to request it's under H autographs. If requested to do so by company, KL2 shall cause Leonard to be available to sign 50 autographed items.

[Pablo Torre]

Kawhi Leonard, by the way, is playing great right now.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Oh, my God.

[David Sampson]

Too little, too late.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, he's averaging almost 40 a game over the last couple weeks. Now.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

I don't think it's too little too late because all you got to do is get to that playing. And they're only a couple games back.

[Pablo Torre]

And they're in New York City this week.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Oh, wow.

[David Sampson]

Are you gonna go?

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Will they stop by?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, in fact, we did, for the record, ask the Clippers if Kawhi Leonard, Steve Ballmer, president of basketball operations Lawrence Frank, were available for interviews even in studio about Aspiration during the road trip here playing the Knicks and the Nets. They declined our request, citing the ongoing investigation that is at the core of this episode.

[David Sampson]

The chances of Kawhi Leonard walking in this room are 0.0. Blutarski's GPA.

[Pablo Torre]

But what I have been told independently is that Wachtel has in fact been methodically making its way towards the Clippers C suite as we speak over the last four months. I mean, they've interviewed a number of Aspiration employees. They still trying to interview more and they're trying to get to the origin story, as they see it, of the Clippers and Aspiration relationship. And so from there, they will then turn to Ballmer and Kawhi and Lawrence Frank and other Clippers officials in a denouement that is unfolding truly in the new year and this order of operations. Amin may be personally familiar to you on some level because you happen to work in the front office of a team that was investigated by Wachtel. You Worked for the Phoenix Suns under. And I. This is a great phrase, under now disgraced former owner Robert Sarver. And there was a league investigation there that was also triggered by a media report.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Yeah, I believe Baxter Holmes was the reporter who had the story that broke November of 2021. And they reached out to me in February of 2022 asking if we could sit down and, and have chat amid.

[Pablo Torre]

These allegations reported by espn. Allegations of racism, misogyny, all that stuff. What was your response to Walktel?

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

None.

[David Sampson]

You didn't sit down with them?

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Didn't sit down with them.

[David Sampson]

Were you nervous about your career?

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Not about my career. I didn't do anything wrong, but I just, I. I did not want to speak to lawyers.

[David Sampson]

Were you told not to speak?

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

No, no.

[Pablo Torre]

Do you realize you're speaking to a lawyer right now?

[David Sampson]

Well, yeah, well, I'm not a league lawyer, but that's noted in that I'm sort of clocking that.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Yeah, I, it was one of those things where I was following the story very closely and, and it was easier for me to read what the report was and to be like, that's not exactly how that happened. Rather than actually tell them and correct them.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, this is the wrong episode for you to be a part.

[David Sampson]

Terribly. Hopefully the wrong country to live in for that to be the view, too.

[Pablo Torre]

But you don't respond. And do they follow up?

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Nope.

[Pablo Torre]

Very good.

[David Sampson]

Watel. In my opinion, Pablo, they were not going to take no for an answer from you.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, and I want to say, like, the reason I met with them too, is because they expressed a seriousness about wanting to talk to me. And to the bottom of this story.

[David Sampson]

There'S been a lot of balloons floated already, which is what leagues do when they're doing these investigations. And I've seen a lot, including recently where it was, hey, it may be a couple draft picks, nothing too crazy. I do not believe they're going to make Steve Ballmer sell because they need to have a gulf between what Sarver.

[Pablo Torre]

Did, what Sterling did, as in Donald Sterling, noted racist and now fellow disgraced former owner of the Los Angeles Clippers preceding Steve Ballmer.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

So there's a lot, a lot to unpack. Number one, Sarver was not forced to sell. He was suspended. He was fined. And then what ended up happening was partners, these corporate partners, pressured the Suns, like, hey, we don't want to do business. We don't want, we can't be affiliated with this thing.

[David Sampson]

That's what happened with Dan Snyder and the Redskins.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Right.

[David Sampson]

It was not actually Roger, goodell forcing Snyder to sell it was all of his partners.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

It was the corporate partner.

[David Sampson]

There was like a mutiny on the bounty. And so to me, what you're doing is Watel is taking this as seriously as they took the Phoenix Suns. And I can tell you that from the meeting, this was not just a hey, let's check the box and sit with Pablo.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

This is what I'll say though, to that point, to that end, which is even if Wachtel finds Steve Ballmer's guilty, there is not a single corporate partner of the Clippers that say, well, I can't be affiliated with this man anymore. And the second part is there is a massive downside to getting out of business with Steve Ballmer.

[Pablo Torre]

One basic question at the radioactive core of this entire saga, which team Ballmer has somehow avoided answering for more than four months now, and this is the question I want to help answer today, is pretty simple. The question is, did the Clippers know that Aspirations secret no show deal with Kawhi Leonard even existed? Because in a September 2025 statement, the Clippers had stressed how the marketing deal was quote, independent from Steve Ballmer and his franchise.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

This is a the Clipper statement courtesy of Shams Charanio. He tweeted this out. Neither Steve nor the Clippers organization had any oversight of Kwai's independent endorsement agreement with aspiration. To say otherwise is flat out wrong.

[Pablo Torre]

And Team Bomber, their most public defender, Mark Cuban in this studio in fact previously stressed that he personally couldn't possibly say if the team was aware of the contract either. Do you think the Clippers knew that Kawhi had this deal with aspiration?

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

I don't know. I don't. I don't know.

[Pablo Torre]

Would you have known if you were the owner of a team and your most important player signed a deal with.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Not necessarily, but probably.

[Pablo Torre]

Probably, yeah, possibly.

[David Sampson]

As president of the team I would know every single one of them.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, in your folders is one new thing that I shared with the NBA's internal investigators at Wachtel Lipton. In November I'm going to ask you guys to table Read this because it is an email chain from inside of Aspiration. It starts on August 29, 2022. This is five months after Kawhi's endorsement contract had already gone into effect. David, please play the role of Mike Shukaro. This is Aspirations Chief Legal Officer who is writing to Aspirations Senior Director of Brand Marketing and their Chief Business Development Officer.

[David Sampson]

In our contract, Kawhi will sign 50 items Open Parents that we have to purchase per year for him to sign close friends. We should get that done before year one gets deep and we are into the NBA season. In my view, the only things worth signing are NBA official game jerseys and NBA official game basketballs. I am certain Joe Sandberg will want some of the signed swag. The rest should be user he meant used by biz dev as gifts and or marketing as promotions. Here's the ball link. The 20222023 shirts are not out yet.

[Pablo Torre]

And there's a hyperlink to wilson.com and a basketball that you can purchase and the Senior Director of Brand Marketing and Chief Business Development Officer then proceed to loop in aspirations Director of Brand Marketing we're going to call this person the DBM and the DBM Amin replies hi.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Mike, since we haven't publicly announced this endorsement deal, I wanted to double check if it's okay to talk about this quiet partnership with the Clippers partnership team. I ask because I know that they could likely provide us with a bunch of free or discounted basketballs and Kwai Merch as well as facilitate signing. Coincidentally, the Clippers are planning a few bobblehead nights this season and one of them will feature Kawhi. I want our logo to be on it. Let me know if I can start these discussions with the Clippers.

[Pablo Torre]

Thanks to which the Chief Legal Officer of Aspiration replies that very same night.

[David Sampson]

In writing I believe the Clippers are well aware.

[Pablo Torre]

So in response to the Chief Legal Officer saying that the Clippers are well aware, the DBM Director of Brand Marketing.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Then replies, perfect, thanks for confirming. I'll ask name redacted about Merch for Kwai to sign and report back.

[Pablo Torre]

I should disclose here that I was in touch with the DBM Aspirations Director of Brand Marketing who left the company last year in an attempt to include their perspective and the DBM unfortunately ghosted me as in like stopped replying altogether once I sent over excerpts from the very emails that we have just read at this table, which did feel a little strange, but multiple sources have confirmed to me the identity of this merge connect the redacted name that the DBM referenced when they wrote quote I'll ask blank about merch for Kawhi to sign a report back end quote Was the Director of Partnership Marketing at the Los Angeles Clippers.

[David Sampson]

That's who would be intimately involved in any situation with Aspiration as a sponsor and would understand what the deliverables are and that's who you would have it wouldn't be Steve Ballmer talking to them at that level about something like autographed items or even about bobbleheads at that moment. So that, that, to me, that tracks how a team is run.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

There has to be a level of knowledge, right? You don't operate independently. Even if the, the Clippers say that they had no knowledge, that doesn't matter because in order to do this, even if we're above board, you still have that connection and that, that communication.

[David Sampson]

Because remember, if they would ask, if Aspiration would have asked, hey, listen, we, we'd like some Kawhi stuff. And what you'd say is, well, you're a sponsor, you can have. Because we would allocate signed stuff per sponsor, per level. And if off, the question would come like, no, why do you need. You're not getting that. And then the response would be, wait a minute, we have an agreement that we get that.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

I think that's a real important thing to keep in mind. This is an aspiration. You know, a company that's in business with Kawhi reaching out to Clippers out of the blue, this is aspiration. A company has a business relationship with the Clippers itself. So these kind of communications are, are part of it.

[Pablo Torre]

The thing that strikes me about these emails, right, it's like, let's get the merch, let's get the signed jerseys, let's get this bobblehead thing. There's like a checklist of like, stuff we can get in the framework of our very deeply commingled endorsement deal with Kawhi that is also existing alongside our sponsorship deal in which we pay the Clippers. And so you can see that on the Clippers side, right? In totality, what we're seeing is the Clippers are saying, we had no oversight, no understanding, Team Ballmer Mark Cuban. They're saying, we have no idea if the Clippers even knew about this crazy deal at all. And meanwhile, on the aspiration side, we have these emails where they're just like, yeah, let's reach out to the Clippers. We all are talking about it. This is a deal they're trying to activate. And they resolve to go and reach out to their counterparts at the Los Angeles Clippers exactly as you would do, as if this deal was meant to be done. And then there's the matter of what happened a couple months after that August 2022 email chain, which is the 261 page document sitting in a means folder.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

It is the Aspiration Partners Inc. Series CEFI Preferred Stock Purchase Agreement dated as of December 9, 2022.

[Pablo Torre]

This is in fact the $1.99 million deal which you will recall signed by the Clippers only co owner Dennis Wong, one of Steve Ballmer's oldest and best friends dating back to their days at Harvard. This was signed yes, December 2022. An aspiration was two and a half months late in paying Kawhi Leonard his quarterly check of $1.75 million. But Wong, who had not invested in Aspiration before, wired in his $1.99 million and nine days later, Kawhi gets paid. Although the written disclosure is flagged in Wong's agreement in front of you, David, they say what?

[David Sampson]

The company is in default. KPMG resigned as the company's independent auditor. These are bad. I can answer that. FINRA is conducting five inquiries. But wait, there's more. The SEC is currently conducting a review of the ESG representations made by the company.

[Pablo Torre]

In other words, Aspiration could not pay its bills at this point. The company actually fired 20% of its staff on the same day, December 15, 2022, that they secretly chose to pay Kawhi his $1.75 million to do nothing. That is where the clippers co owners $1.99 million went. But as for what was not written into that agreement, we just read because you know, the whole point of this scheme was to not get caught. I also need to acknowledge another big concern expressed by Mark Cuban and Team Ballmer and all of their carefully framed denials which is that for all these documents nobody actually mentions the phrase cap circumvention in writing. Right? And I've heard this. It seems a little convenient to have non sports employees at this weird tree planting company in retrospect, years after the fact, identify a very explosive NBA salary cap scandal, a scheme perpetrated by the Clippers. And so the next document in your folders is a text exchange that I also shared with the NBA's lawyers at Wal in the interest of transparency that I would now like you guys to Table read to this is February 2023, right around this point in the timeline. According to court documents, Joe Sandberg has asked at least 19 outside investment firms to put money into aspiration, which is in default as said. But his company is still making it a priority to pay Kawhi Leonard. And so these are two high level aspiration employees with direct knowledge of the company's C suite talking about what kind of bankruptcy aspiration is going to file for chapter seven. And in chapter seven the company has to completely liquidate. In chapter 11, the less extreme version you can restructure, try to repay your Creditors. Amin. Please be Gray Bubble. Okay, David. Please be Blue Bubble.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

I'm so curious how they decide between seven and 11.

[David Sampson]

The courts will. We can file for chapter 11, which we likely will, and then a bankruptcy court will come in and either verify that's the appropriate action, and we continue unwinding the business while they move through it with creditors, or the courts see the books and they say, yeah, no, cease business. This is Chapter seven. You can't be trusted to keep doing business right now.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Oh, interesting. I see. So maybe there is a grand plan.

[David Sampson]

Unlikely.

[Pablo Torre]

And to Blue Bubble's credit, by the way, that is basically what happened. So aspiration filed for Chapter 11, then pivoted to Chapter 7 last July, and then the conversation proceeds.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Imagine when Ballmer finds out.

[David Sampson]

Ballmer has to be in on the take. I am so suspicious of him.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

I mean, I think they meant to say. I mean, he's c close with js.

[David Sampson]

Especially with the salary cap and Kawhi and just all the shady dealings.

[Pablo Torre]

So the salary cap and Kawhi and all the shady dealings and mentioning Ballmer being in on the take and being suspicious of him. Here's some writing.

[David Sampson]

I. I want to go back a little bit to Wachtel. I mean, just to paint a little picture with Pablo. Not wanting me to, but I don't care. So you have to understand that Pablo is handing stuff, right? And Watel is investigating, and they're taking it. And I was doing some eye reading because I want to see. That's what negotiations are. You're looking always at your adversary. You're looking for any tells, cues, looking for anything. And I was looking for, have they seen this before? Is there any element of surprise? Or are they just like, yeah, whatever, man. I've got. I. I got five copies of this. Like, this is no big deal. And there were in the course of this several times where I saw some pupil dilation. And because I'm just. I was looking for that, I don't.

[Pablo Torre]

Think the pupils are on the record.

[David Sampson]

David. I disagree. I am comfortable telling you that I saw pupil dilation. These bubbles are meaningful, at least to me.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, look, speaking to the analysis in the bubbles, right, there was no shock or comment or reaction or question at all from Gray Bubble about, quote, the salary cap. And Kawhi, once Blue Bubble brought it up, which does conform with what I've reported previously, which is that capture convention, the whole reason Kawhi's endorsement deal allegedly existed in the first place was pretty matter of factly discussed in direct reference to Steve Ballmer. By multiple other high level Aspiration employees, several of whom again have become federal witnesses in the DOJ and SEC investigations into Joe Sandberg and Aspiration. But here, Amin is how Gray Bubble continues their thought about Ballmer being close.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

To js he's apparently a mentor to him.

[David Sampson]

Oh, perfect. Haha.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Learned that from ac.

[Pablo Torre]

And ac, by the way, according to multiple Aspiration sources, is not Al Cowlings, unfortunately, you know, sidekick in the Ford Broncos.

[David Sampson]

Yeah, I was thinking my first thought was AC Green. That popped into my head immediately.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Alex Caruso.

[Pablo Torre]

So many different jokes that I can make here. But this is in fact a different confidant to a man in Los Angeles who will get in trouble with the law. This AC you can find in SEC filings and also in this nasdaq.com press release about the food delivery company Blue Apron.

[David Sampson]

Upon closing, Alex Chalunko, Mr. Sandberg's chief investment officer, will join the Blue Apron board.

[Pablo Torre]

The thing about Alex Chaluncle is that he was close enough to Sandberg such that Sandberg said, you will be on the board of this company that I'm going to be an early investor in. And Alex Chalunkel, I should say, did not respond to our request for comment.

[David Sampson]

Well, I don't have this information, except I would say that what a chief investment officer would have input and knowledge of is everything, right? One of the things that I liked is cash management, where you are taking an endowment or you're taking extra cash you have and you are figuring out how you're going to invest it because that's part of how you fund operations, is making money with your money. The second thing a chief investment officer does is they are in charge of the capital structure of the company, working in conjunction with the cfo, always with the president and CEO as they figure out what's called the cap table. The cap table is the list of people who own what and at what number they're at in terms of percentage ownership and what their base is.

[Pablo Torre]

And Steve Ballmer did not furiously sever ties with Aspiration upon learning that the company was insolvent. It's worth recalling what happened the month after these texts. Right, so now we're in March 2023. Like his old buddy and co owner of the Clippers, Dennis Wong, Ballmer decided to invest millions of dollars, another $10 million in 2023, to go along with his initial 50 million from 2021. And even more bizarrely, David, he invested at the same multi billion dollar valuation that aspiration had in 2021. As if nothing was going wrong with the company. And so what all of this indicates is simply this. The Clippers, the relationship between Steve Ballmer and Joe Sandberg and these two companies, their respective companies. You know, again, this is the context. They're both Harvard graduates. They're huge Democratic donors. They are people who are in business together in both directions. It might not be how it's been publicly portrayed.

[David Sampson]

No. And I can't wait for from the Wachtel standpoint, because if Steve Ballmer goes in and says that he had no idea of anything and Waktel chooses whatever they choose, whether it will take it into account. Whether Adam Silver does that to me has always been the one that struck me about your reporting is I know what our owner was aware of and what he wasn't. And I know what I was aware of as a team president and what I wasn't. Would I know of a small $10,000 local deal with a car dealership that one of our players had? No, I would not. Would I know about a $30 million deal? 9 million a year, 7 million a year? Would I know what our player is doing? I would. And if I do, that means our owner does.

[Pablo Torre]

And so there's a follow up question then, given the framework of how you do business, which is when did the Clippers even discover Aspiration as an entity? Because it might not be as late in this very long con as Team Ballmer would have you believe.

[David Sampson]

Are you saying that they were aware of Aspiration prior to Aspiration becoming a sponsor of Intuit Dome?

[Pablo Torre]

I am saying that we're going to discuss this after the break.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Oh, that's a tease, folks.

[Pablo Torre]

Foreign.

[David Sampson]

Hey, it's Raj and Noah.

[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

And we're back with a new season of Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[David Sampson]

Because we're still doing a lot of stuff wrong.

[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

But who isn't? That's why each week we're talking about the topics that we could all use a little helping hit with, Whether it's making new friends as an adult, managing our emotions, or even dreaming.

[David Sampson]

We'll be talking to experts in their fields who are definitely doing things right, so the rest of us can be a bit wiser and a lot better equipped to handle whatever life throws at us.

[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

Subscribe now and listen to new episodes of Am I Doing It Wrong? Dropping every Thursday starting January 1st, wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Sampson]

And for the first time ever, we're going to have full video episodes on YouTube. Because as long as there are things to get wrong, we're going to be right here to help you do them better.

[Pablo Torre]

Love y'. All.

[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

Wherever life takes you next, and whoever you're looking to be, there's a car for that on cars.com with up to 50,000 new vehicles added every day, the possibilities keep growing. Explore over 2 million cars, giving you 2 million ways to find what fits your lifestyle, your goals, and your next move. Whether you're browsing, comparing, or ready to take the next step, Cars.com makes it easy to see what's out there. Find your next part possibility on cars.com where to next?

[David Sampson]

Recently we asked some people about sharing their New York Times accounts.

[Pablo Torre]

My name is Kayla.

[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

My husband and I use his email.

[Pablo Torre]

Address to access the New York Times.

[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

Each day we compete for who gets to do connections. Sometimes I log into the app and I discover that he's already finished connections that day.

[Pablo Torre]

And I'm like, Jonah, it was my day.

[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

And he's like, I know, I just couldn't resist. You would do us a huge favor.

[Pablo Torre]

If we got to log in as.

[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

A family with separate emails. I really think our well being as.

[Pablo Torre]

A couple depends on it.

[David Sampson]

Thanks for looking into this, Kayla. We heard you introducing the New York Times Family subscription. One subscription, up to four separate logins for anyone in your life. Find out [e-mail] family.

[Pablo Torre]

So I do need to remind everybody, you two guys included, in fairness to the Clippers, that Steve Ballmer and Dennis Wong were not the only investors of note in Aspiration. In fact, on Aspiration's Twitter account, which has since rebranded itself after filing for bankruptcy as. Yep. And then seven, they rebranded themselves as GreenFi Banking. Okay, and I found this post from when it was still Aspiration from back in December of 2021. And this is a key year, 2021 in Steve Ballmer's version of this timeline. I mean, and so it's a tweet that I would ask you here to describe for us.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

All right, this is at greenfibanking, we're honored to be joined in our mission of providing sustainability services to people and business by marquee investors Oak Tree Capital Management LP and Steve Ballmer. Hashtag spend sustainably.

[Pablo Torre]

And it links to this Bloomberg.com article with a splashy headline covered by Steve Ballmer's giant face, Oak tree.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Ballmer bet $315 million on Aspiration before SPAC deal.

[Pablo Torre]

We first mentioned Oaktree Capital Management, which is a very blue chip investment firm, in part one of the series. We'll come back to them, by the way, in a minute. But just remember what Steve Ballmer told ESPN the day after he dropped part one, right? Which is that he didn't even know about Aspiration until the company. Aspiration approached the Clippers in the year 2021. This is a company that I got to know, frankly, through them approaching us about a sponsorship deal. My family and I were super keen to do work to stem climate change. We think that's an important thing. I was in the process of even changing the design of Intuit Dome so that we could be carbon neutral. And then we meet this company that focuses in on an aspect of carbon neutrality. To me, it seemed like a match.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Kind of made in heaven, if you will.

[Pablo Torre]

And then they offered us the month after that ESPN interview. I mean, the Wall Street Journal on the front page, took it a step further. This was last October. This was after our reporting, the Journal cited a team Ballmer source who actually increased the distance between Ballmer and Sandberg even more. And, David, if you could read that quote in front of you from the Journal.

[David Sampson]

A person close to the Ballmer Group, his investment company, said that two hardly knew each other. He said that Ballmer and Sandberg had their first significant interaction at the press conference announcing the partnership between the Clippers and Aspiration. I wonder, is significant mean they're next to each other? Is it dinner? How many dinners do you have to have to have significant interaction? One. Can't be one.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Yeah. Three significant. It's not about volume, it's about intensity.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

So if I could have dozens of interactions with you. But all my interactions are, hey, David. All right, Bye, David. Hey, Happy New Year, David.

[David Sampson]

So we've had volume, but remember what.

[Pablo Torre]

Ballmer told espn, right, in the first interview? This is a company that I got to know, frankly, through them approaching us about a sponsorship deal.

[David Sampson]

Boy, does he regret that interview.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, what we can do here, though, is rewatch the presser from September 2021 between aspirations marquee investor and the man he picked to be a, quote, founding partner of his crown jewel, the Intuit Dome, because unfamiliarity isn't exactly the impression.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Is this the part where we look at their pupil dilation?

[Pablo Torre]

Steve Ballmer is one of the most underappreciated, unheralded philanthropists of our time. I know that because he has quietly been an ally of some of the most important social justice movements that I've been involved in, to fight poverty, to fight racial injustice, to fight economic inequality. And he always does it without taking any credit. So I'm not going to blow his cover too specifically. But I will just underscore that to be aligned with someone of those values is very special. And so the question, practically speaking, becomes evidence based. When did Steve Ballmer and Joe Sandberg actually cross paths? And so we asked the Clippers for an answer and they again declined to comment, citing the NBA's investigation. But we want to fully answer this question as best we can of when this match made in heaven actually did get started. And it turns out that you cannot start with 2021. In fact, the year you need to start with, it turns out, is 2018. You actually need to start with the first day, January 1st of 2018.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Oh boy.

[Pablo Torre]

Because on January 1st, 2018, a non profit called the Golden State Opportunity Fund first started receiving annual donations from the Ballmer Group. This is the group who sourced the journal quoted before. And this is notable because as we reported in part five of our series, the lone founder and chairman of the board lord of this charity, whose face also is plastered on the website and the marketing materials, is who?

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Jill Sandberg.

[Pablo Torre]

And look, I get that Steve Ballmer has billions upon billions upon billions of dollars. And I even understand that you can't take his quote to 60 Minutes in which Ballmer and his wife Connie said that they strategize about the Ballmer Group's donations, quote, grant by grant. Literally. You can't look back and say, well, people's economic mobility this year was a 2 and next year it's going to be a 2.6. Yeah, now we, we can't do population level measurement, but place by place, you.

[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

Know, grant by grant, we can do that.

[Pablo Torre]

You may also recall that Steve Ballmer went on to donate $1.875 million to Joe Sandberg's charity, as aforementioned, in late 2024, which was 10 months at least, after Ballmer already knew that the federal government had investigated Sandberg for conning people like Steve Ballmer. This was even after another aspiration board member had already been arrested by the FBI in connection to Sandberg's scheme.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

He's a very forgiving man. Pablo. I don't know what you're not understanding.

[Pablo Torre]

The point is that Ballmer started sending money to Sandberg at the very start of 2018. So let's just stay there for a minute and I want us to keep scrolling through aspirations old Twitter account which has since rebranded itself after filing for bankruptcy at GreenFi Banking. These are all posts from before the rebrand because you get to a post eventually that someone maybe forgot to delete. David, what is the date and timestamp of this post?

[David Sampson]

10:00Am on Aug 23, 2018.

[Pablo Torre]

Amin, could you please describe what this post says and shows?

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

It is a picture of aspiration employees, I have to assume all sitting around. It looks like they're mid applause as at the front of the room, one and only Doc Rivers, former head coach of the Clippers, with a smile on his face. Do you want me to read the copy?

[Pablo Torre]

I would love you to, actually.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

All right. Basketball emoji. What better way to get motivated in the team meeting than having our very own coach, special guest Doc Rivers, stop by to share why he's excited about aspiration and encouraged us to keep our heads in the game at LA Clippers. It's not Blake's fault.

[Pablo Torre]

The fact that there is this photo from that same year at this office, which happens to be. By the way, we did the Google Maps on this. Conveniently located less than 10 minutes away from the Clippers practice facility at the time.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Playa Vista.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. So this was a Marina Del Rey office of Aspiration. Playa Vista was where the Clippers used to practice before the whole intuit thing came to be.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Hold on, man. They have a relationship with The Clippers in 2018.

[Pablo Torre]

Doc Rivers, by the way, at the time was not merely the head coach of the Clippers in 2018.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

He's the president of basketball operations.

[Pablo Torre]

He had just been replaced by Lawrence Frank as president of basketball operations, but he was still reporting directly to Steve Ballmer.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Right.

[Pablo Torre]

And the next thing David, I'd like you to review. Here are internal documents that I obtained that mentioned two other aspiration investors that we have not discussed so explicitly yet. Can you please name those investors?

[David Sampson]

The Glen A. Rivers Revocable Trust UA September, and the Kristen Rivers Revocable Trust UA September. And I will bet you a dollar that Glenn A. Rivers is known as Doc and that Kristen is likely someone in his family.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

I mean, it is his former wife. It was wife at the time.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, as of February of 2018. So.

[David Sampson]

God, look, it's normal to do it through a trust. Oh, yeah, that part's not.

[Pablo Torre]

That's normally.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

This is episode seven, right?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

How are we still. I feel like I should. I should have called this from the beginning. From the. From episode one. As soon as we found out Aspiration Clippers money on the table. There's a lot of kind of moving parts and caps are convention. Why didn't the name Doc Rivers come out my mouth immediately?

[Pablo Torre]

So I reached out to Doc Rivers, who declined comment. But I should just observe that these investments, yeah, they came more than a year before Kawhi Leonard, by the way, would officially be a free agent in 2019. So I'm just saying that like this social network was not only geographically tight, they were investing years before all of this.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Incestuous. This is incestuous.

[David Sampson]

It doesn't go speak to that, gentlemen, in my opinion. It certainly speaks to knowledge. This is not wrong on its face to tell your friends, hey, I'm investing in this company, let's do this. But it certainly goes to knowledge.

[Pablo Torre]

The social network that we're describing would have known more than hardly knowing anything, which was the previous.

[David Sampson]

They're still going with that.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

This is, this is the part again that tests credulity.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm merely saying that these investments happened. That team building speech happened years before Steve Ballmer says he heard of the company. We're just going based on what's been documented.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

This is out there.

[Pablo Torre]

This is just people not putting together what the social network consists of. And so speaking of, by the way, I now want to take us to what Sam Amick at the Athletic reported in December of 2019. Because this was after the NBA and its attorneys opened the original investigation into alleged Clippers salary capture convention and Kawhi's unlicensed representative slash uncle, Dennis Robertson. I mean, could you read?

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Sources say the league was told that Robertson asked team officials for part ownership of the team, a private plane that would be available at all times, a house, and last but certainly not least, a guaranteed amount of off court endorsement money that they could expect if Leonard played for their team. All of those items, to be clear, would fall well outside of the confines of the league's collective bargaining agreement.

[Pablo Torre]

So what I've been doing, by the way, is going back now in our timeline from 2018 to 2019. And so I've been living in 2019 for the past several months.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

There's this thing called Covid that's coming. Prepare, buy a lot of toilet paper.

[Pablo Torre]

I just love bats. This is a period, by the way, that Steve Ballmer, I think would probably prefer that we not discuss in depth. But it brought me to a rare interview with Kawhi Leonard that actually got published two months ago. This was in November. This is the same month that David and I visited Wachtow's offices actually. And this interview is with an outlet called Flaunt Magazine.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Love that.

[Pablo Torre]

And this interview also came with a high end fashion shoot which we're showing to you guys right now.

[David Sampson]

I Can't pull that off.

[Pablo Torre]

Can you describe what you're seeing, Amin?

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

He's wearing a duster of some sort, or maybe it's a pea coat. And he's on the beach. He had a surfboard. Now he's wearing flowing linen kind of robes. Now he's wearing a Celine kind of that. A varsity jacket. Now he's lying down on a couch, and he's wearing a gray hoodie. Now he's got no shirt on at all. Yes, he's showing us that ripped physique. This is as out of his shell as I've ever seen him.

[Pablo Torre]

He kind of has, like, captive Venezuelan president vibes. He's just, like, not totally loving being out here in public, like, performing.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Right.

[Pablo Torre]

And so in this interview, by the way, to get back to just the content of it, Kawhi didn't talk about secretly getting a House in 2019 or an endorsement deal with Aspiration in 2021 or anything involving Steve Ballmer or Oaktree Capital Management. But there was one excerpt, David, from Flaunt, that I found interesting. Could you please read?

[David Sampson]

Leonard has recently opened his own production company, Lavish Mountain Productions, that focuses on animation and commercial work. He speaks of being deeply motivated by the entrepreneurial spirit of it all.

[Pablo Torre]

Lavish Mountain.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

I like that name.

[Pablo Torre]

Lavish Mountain is a conspicuous name. And it's so conspicuous that I found it in the state of Florida, it turns out, because that is where Uncle Dennis Robertson registered a company called Lavish Mountain llc. But he didn't do this recently, as Flawn magazine suggests. According to the public filing Amin, which is the next document in your folder, he registered it when?

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

November 4, 2019, which would be around when. The beginning of the first season. Kawhi Leonard plays for the Los Angeles Clippers.

[Pablo Torre]

And according to property records we obtained the very next day, November 5, 2019, Lavish Mountain LLC acquired the grant deed for a house, a luxury penthouse, actually, at a building that me and I think you know quite well. It's in downtown Los Angeles.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

It's a very high floor. It's worth about $6.725 million at the Ritz Carlton Residences. And according to these records, public records we requested from the Los Angeles treasurer and tax collector, the entity paying the property taxes on this penthouse since Lavish Mountain purchased it has been who?

[David Sampson]

David the Payer name Kawhi Leonard.

[Pablo Torre]

And as confirmed by various public real estate listings as well, this property happens to be the same penthouse, it seems, where Kawhi lived or stayed, at least until he put it up for sale in 2024. But of course, I didn't totally understand initially why this penthouse was very quietly conveyed through an LLC started by Uncle Dennis in the state of Florida. And so, David, I just like you to now look at your next document, which is the grant deed for unit 43G, the unit in question, because I'd like you to please tell me who sold it to Lavish Mountain llc.

[David Sampson]

Larry W. Keel.

[Pablo Torre]

Larry Wayne Keel.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Should I know that name?

[Pablo Torre]

I think that name is pretty unknown to, I guess, our entire audience at this point. Most people listening wouldn't recognize it, but mean. Please open the next thing in your folder and then describe what you're seeing.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

So it's two pictures side by side. The first picture taken somewhere in the 90s of five middle aged men in white shirts and ties. And then what clearly looks like a reenactment or an attempt to reenact that photo. Current day. And they're all a little heavier and a lot grayer and some hair has been lost.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, I'm not needing you to judge how they've aged.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Well, I mean, that's just how it works, how it happens. Do you want me to read the caption underneath?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, please.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

So, as I said, five gentlemen. And the caption says, from left, Oak Tree founders Larry Keel, Sheldon Stone, Richard Masson, Howard Marks and Bruce Karsh in 1995 and in 2020. So I was right, it was in the mid-90s. I just guessed it by looking at it.

[Pablo Torre]

Larry W. Keel is in fact the co founder of Oaktree Capital Management. He's the only guy sitting in a chair in these photos taken 25 years apart. He served on the board of directors through 2019 before becoming an advisory partner to Oaktree. And you may recall Oak Tree, of course, from like 10 minutes ago or whatever it's been, as the other marquee investor in Aspiration, that Aspiration tweeted about being so honored to have on board right alongside Steve Ballmer.

[David Sampson]

And he owned a place at the Ritz, guys.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, we here at pablotore finds out, just to be very diligent, asked Larry W. Keel and Oak Street Capital Management how it is that in November 2019, the same year, Kawhi Leonard's uncle Dennis notoriously demanded a house from prospective teams who wanted to sign his nephew that Larry W. Keel wound up selling Kawhi Leonard a penthouse through an LLC that his uncle created the day before. And how it is also that two years after that transaction in November 2021, Uncle Dennis created yet another LLC through which Kawhi Leonard would be paid millions of dollars in secret endorsement money from Aspiration, which happens to be the same company that the firm Larry W. Keel founded had invested in alongside Steve Ballmer. And Larry W. Keel did not respond. Maybe in fairness, all of this is an insane coincidence.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

The transaction itself can be above board. Again, the important, the pertinent information is that who sold it to whom. Right. And in that sense, that it wasn't anyone else in the world. It wasn't David Sampson that sold it. It wasn't Bud Selig. It was Larry Keel, the co founder of Oaktree, which has, again, going back to where we talk about Steve Ballmer, another thread connecting his orbit to this company.

[David Sampson]

But also, there are transactions that often happen amongst friends where they buy each other's places and you hear, hey, he bought the house of the movie star and they did a deal. Because we have players who do transactions when they're traded.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Yeah, they buy each other's house.

[David Sampson]

They buy each other's houses. So that shows to me there's a relationship. It doesn't show that that is a deal. That is nefarious.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Absolutely. But to me, that's all this is about. It's not everyone wants it to be like, aha, we got it. That's the house that he asked for. Like, no, it's just demonstrating yet again, there's no way these people don't know each other.

[David Sampson]

Which is comfortable with that, which is.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

What they keep trying to tell us. Oh, I don't know. I don't know anybody. This had nothing to do with me.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, this is, if nothing else, a social network that keeps drawing the money behind aspiration and the clippers closer together. Foreign.

[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

Wherever life takes you next and whoever you're looking to be, there's a car for that on cars.com with up to 50,000 new vehicles added every day, the possibilities keep growing. Explore over 2 million cars, giving you 2 million ways to find what fits your lifestyle, your goals, and your next move. Whether you're browsing, comparing, or ready to take the next step, Cars.com makes it easy to see what's out there. Find your Next possibility on Cars.com where to next?

[Pablo Torre]

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[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[David Sampson]

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[Pablo Torre]

So I need to acknowledge here that we have presented a lot more evidence from the aspiration side of things and the Clipper side of things. And that's despite my best efforts. But that's where our information clearly, admittedly, seems to be the strongest. And in fact, the only time I think Kawhi has ever been asked or had to answer questions about Aspiration at all was at Clippers media day before the season. And Kawhi David was not especially impressed with our reporting. Like I said, I don't do deal with the conspiracies or the clickbait analysts or journalism that's going on.

[David Sampson]

So that's. That's what it is. Well, I think the allegation was that you didn't perform any services for them. Do you do.

[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

Is that accurate or did you know?

[Pablo Torre]

It's accurate, but it's old. This is all new to you guys. The company went bankrupt a while ago, so we already knew this was going to happen.

[David Sampson]

So he called you a journalist, you know, so that's a positive.

[Pablo Torre]

That is a lot more than others have done lately. But before we abandon our microphones, okay, and in the interest of yet more sunlight in a world of many unplanted trees, we need to return to that August 2022 email chain that we started with, where aspirations Chief Legal Officer said about Kauai's $28 million endorsement deal, quote, unquote. I believe the Clippers are well aware. And the Director of brand marketing, the venerable DBM of Aspiration, replied by saying they'd asked the director of partnership marketing at the Clippers about getting Kawhi to sign some merch and, you know, have the team put the aspiration logo on a Kawhi bobblehead. And I want to acknowledge again, in the skepticism of all of this. Yeah, look, I can imagine Team Ballmer saying, like, yeah, you have aspiration side conversations, and I haven't provided proof that those conversations with the Clippers actually took place. And so, Amin, this is where I finally need to ask you to please open the briefcase that you don't think.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

I get to touch the briefcase.

[Pablo Torre]

I've been patiently waiting for your touch this whole time.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

All right.

[Pablo Torre]

It's very weathered. Yeah, a good patina.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

You're saying this is vintage and not.

[David Sampson]

No, I said it was vintage, all right?

[Pablo Torre]

It is literally vintage. It's, like, decades old.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Okay. I'm making sure that we didn't get this from anthropology or something like that.

[Pablo Torre]

March 21, 2023, was less than two weeks after Steve Ballmer quietly invested another $10 million into Aspiration. Less than two weeks before, another quarterly aspiration payment was due to Kawhi on March 31. And on that day, March 21, the Clippers gave a free gift. I mean, how did you get this?

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

I know it. It's a bobblehead. But it's not any bobblehead, folks. It's a one armed Kawhi Leonard bobblehead. He's wearing his Los Angeles Clippers number two jersey. His head is bobbling, and underneath it says Quiet Leonard. And right above Quiet Leonard, there's a little plaque that says aspiration.

[Pablo Torre]

The army fell off in transit.

[David Sampson]

Very common ebay. This is to have armless bobbleheads. I've got a whole collection.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Art imitating life.

[David Sampson]

Truly, that's a thread.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, look. In the words of aspirations director for brand marketing from the email chain, the Clippers are planning a few bobblehead nights this season, and one of them will feature Kawhi. I want our logo to be on it. Let me know if I can start these discussions with the Clippers.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

It. You know, I've seen a million of these. This little tile on top of it is, you know. You know when you go to a house and you say, oh, that part of this house was not built with the rest of the house, this is an extension. I get the vibe that this thing was like a last second.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, it is important to note that this is the one and only Clippers bobblehead that has ever had an aspiration logo on it. And that the month before Kawhi's aspiration bobblehead, for instance, February 2023, Nicholas Batum's bobblehead was sponsored by Cedar Sinai. I can see a photo of that on the Clipper's Twitter account showing it to you on video.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

That doesn't look like Nicholas Batum at all.

[Pablo Torre]

And the year before that, by the way, the first season aspiration with a Clipper sponsor. Cedar Sinai also happens to be who sponsored Kawhi's bobblehead. This was the spring of 2022. There's a whole set you could pick up. I also need you guys to tell me if you notice anything about how the Clippers Twitter account promoted Kawhi's bobblehead. The one sitting in front of us in March 2023. In contrast to how they promoted the others, including Nicholas Batum's the month before. Oh my God.

[David Sampson]

Did they take out. They, I mean, they took off the aspiration logo. Look at that. It's blank.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Yeah, I should read it for the listening audience. Tomorrow is Tuesday. Get it the number 2 and then apostrophe S day. Be one of the first of 10,000 fans in the building and receive a Kawhi Leonard bobblehead, exclamation point. That's it. And then it's a picture, as we said, of the bobblehead. The placard that says aspiration in real life is blank. And that's it. Compare and contrast. The Batum one says Clipper Nation. We are back in action on Friday. Be one of the first of 10,000 fans in attendance and receive a @Nicholas88 Batoon Bobblehead, courtesy of Cedar Sinai. So obviously I don't think quite as a Twitter account. That's why they couldn't tag him. They just said, quiet, Leonard. But certainly you would tag the sponsor because that's the whole point of why we're having a bobblehead.

[David Sampson]

Do not do a bobblehead giveaway without a sponsor, period.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

That's who's paying for pretty much.

[Pablo Torre]

And so the question of like, why isn't there the aspiration word anywhere on this public post on the Clippers account is followed up by a question that our graphics department raised, which is why did they edit out according to an error level analysis that they performed for us here at Pablo Torre finds out so that it's just a white sign of wise feet.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

So, wow, look at this.

[David Sampson]

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, say this again. I don't understand what you're saying.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

He's saying they did an analysis of the image. It had aspiration on it and it was digitally removed. It reminds me of the Epstein files where they redacted, but they didn't know what they were doing. They were redacted. They made it very easy for you to just basically read the redacted parts.

[David Sampson]

So what you found out is that they took a picture with the aspiration logo and they photoshopped it out before tweeting it.

[Pablo Torre]

Look like we can't say definitively that this is photoshopped, but I urge you to look at what the white box looks like.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Right?

[Pablo Torre]

And how black that almost like a redaction that box is versus the other white objects on the bobblehead in the photo.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

So the name Kawhi Leonard. Right. The words Los Angeles, which are kind of behind him, the Los Angeles Clippers font on the jersey, the socks that he's wearing, the white in the sneakers, the white on the piping of the.

[Pablo Torre]

Jersey, all have digital noise.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Very noisy. Very noisy. And then you have this perfect black box where that white placard is. If it were a picture of a blank plaque, Basically, yeah. Then in real life, in real life, a white blank plaque, then we would see the same sort of noise that we see on his socks, that we see on his name, that we see on the Los Angeles, that we see on the piping of the jersey. Instead, we just see perfect black, like something that was redacted, digitally altered.

[Pablo Torre]

That's what it would seem.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

So hold on, let's go back to this timeline again. Aspiration is on the edge. Starting when? When? When are things going down? Aspiration.

[Pablo Torre]

So Ballmer puts in the $10 million when pretty much no outside investor will. In this same month, two weeks before this.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Got it.

[Pablo Torre]

And the federal government is closing in literally around this time.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

So at this moment in time, the Clippers, we are inferring that they know that aspiration is going into a bad place.

[David Sampson]

Can we assume, though mean, that Aspiration was not making its sponsorship payments? Yeah, so they wouldn't get that. So then you would take it out now. But I would. The question is, would I even give away the bobblehead with the sponsor who hadn't paid its bills? Certainly. I wouldn't promote it.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Right.

[David Sampson]

I would Photoshop it from the tweet. The question is, would I blow the whole thing off?

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Yeah. Would I still give it away?

[David Sampson]

That's. And, and now.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

But you know, David, teams announced when the bobblehead nights are at the beginning.

[David Sampson]

Of the year and people buy tickets for those games. I would give it. I would still give it, Pablo, just so you know. But I would not promote it on Twitter. I'd be so pissed off if Aspiration were not paying its bills.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

But Aspiration not paying its bills once again lets us know, hey, this company seems to be having some problems.

[Pablo Torre]

Why would you put in 10 million more dollars when you.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

You have inside knowledge, not even outside?

[Pablo Torre]

This is exactly my point.

[David Sampson]

I think there should be an investigation.

[Pablo Torre]

But listen, at the end of March 2023, Kawhi Leonard was due another quarterly payment. Simultaneous to this, Aspiration was having trouble paying its bills to the Clippers. And the Clippers, meanwhile, were doing like this. That raises all of these questions in retrospect about why and how and what did you know and when did you know it.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

This brings me Back to a point I made after we record the very first episode and hearing the reaction from people, from Mark Cuban to Clipper fans to NBA players, everyone's talking about this and the thing that they kept coming up with, I think Cuban did as well, like, oh, why would they be this sloppy? Why would they be the sloppy? And I, I cannot stress this enough. Look how much work and how much digging and how much you, Pablo and your wonderful team had to do for us to uncover any of it. This wasn't sloppy. This was sophisticated. As I'm like, oh, they were so sloppy. No, this should have been the perfect climb.

[Pablo Torre]

Look, in fairness, again, Kawhi Leonard may think that I'm a conspiracist, that we are conspiracists. And well, you know, he Kawhi Leonard also like aspirations, brand marketing director may not want to answer any more of my questions. The Clippers, for the record, when we asked why there's no mention of aspiration on their post about Kawhi's bobblehead, which has it on the physical thing, declined to comment, citing the whole league investigation. But I can tell you and David can now confirm that Wachtel Lipton also now has its own Kawhi aspiration bobblehead in its possession. And so if you're going to ask the basic question that we started this episode with, did Steve Ballmer's Clippers know that the KL2Aspire deal existed? Were they in fact well aware and behaving so shadily because of that? I just think we also need to pose that same question to Lil Kawhi Leonard, because he, like his taller self, may be silent, but I do think that he is nodding yes. And that's what we call journal. Pablo torre finds out is produced by walter averroma, maxwell carney, ryan cortez, juan galindo, patrick kim, neely loman, rob mcrae, matt sullivan, claire taylor and chris tuminello. Our studio engineering by rg systems, sound design by andrew burcic and ngw post theme song as always by john bravo and we will talk to you next time.

[Raj & Noah (Podcast Hosts)]

Wherever life takes you next and whoever you're looking to be, there's a car for that on cars.com with up to 50,000 new vehicles added every day, the possibilities keep growing. Explore over 2 million cars, giving you 2 million ways to find what fits your lifestyle, your goals, and your next move. Whether you're browsing, comparing, or ready to take the next step, Cars.com makes it easy to see what's out there. Find your next possibility on cars.com where.

[Pablo Torre]

To next hey listeners, Meet Russell.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Hey.

[Pablo Torre]

Russell just launched a fitness app, and he needed to get the word out.

[David Sampson]

To busy professionals looking to stay fit. So I turned to acast.

[Pablo Torre]

I used their Smart Recommendations feature to.

[David Sampson]

Easily find shows that talk about health and fitness.

[Pablo Torre]

Booking sponsorships through their platform was a.

[Amin (NBA Front Office Executive)]

Breeze, and just like that, my app.

[David Sampson]

Was in their ears during their morning run.

[Pablo Torre]

Sounds like a smart move, Russell. How's business looking now? Sweat is pouring, and so are the installs.

[David Sampson]

Spread the word about your business with.

[Pablo Torre]

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[David Sampson]

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