Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: The Congressman Who Unlocked the Epstein Files

Air Date: January 8, 2026
Host: Pablo Torre (A)
Guest: Rep. Ro Khanna (B) – U.S. Congressman from Silicon Valley

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the confluence of political opacity, elite impunity, and public mistrust—centered on Congressman Ro Khanna's pivotal role in the passage and aftermath of the Epstein Files Transparency Act. Torre and Khanna explore the difficulties of holding the American elite accountable, the psychological transformation of Silicon Valley, and the challenges of restoring faith in American democracy, particularly amidst breaking wartime news and the distractions of new technology. The conversation is fast-paced, candid, and laced with personal anecdotes and moments of sharp self-awareness.

Key Topics & Timestamps

1. The Venezuela Invasion: Congressional Powerlessness

[03:08–07:46]

• Ro Khanna recounts finding out about the U.S. invasion of Venezuela via Twitter/X, not through official channels, despite being a senior member of the Armed Services Committee.
  • "I got the news like any of my colleagues are being honest on Twitter." [04:50]
  • Details classified military buildup; criticizes lack of Congressional consultation.
• Khanna describes Congress as "impotent," especially regarding war powers:
  • "Congress has been absent when it comes to matters of war and peace. And Donald Trump is showing our weakness as Article 1 of the Constitution." [09:22]

2. The Epstein Files Transparency Act: Genesis & Impact

[09:33–20:31]

• Khanna co-sponsored the bipartisan Epstein Files Transparency Act with Thomas Massie—forcing the release of troves of Epstein-related documents, including logs implicating powerful political figures.
• Torre introduces the law's origins and awkward connections—such as ex-congressman Tom McMillan and Ghislaine Maxwell's DOJ interview—showing bipartisan elite entanglement.
• Khanna: “That’s why I say this is one of the greatest scandals in American history. It’s because the moral reckoning that we’re gonna face that we allowed our elite to do this.” [20:16]
• Survivors’ testimony galvanized public and Congressional action.

3. Realignment and Distrust: The New Shape of American Politics

[13:46–18:36], [17:42–19:38]

• Bipartisan cooperation on transparency (Khanna/Democrat & Massie/Republican).
• The erosion of public trust, the rise of prediction markets (Kalshi) profiting from war, and the gamification of life:
  • "We can't gamify every aspect of life...and of course in cases of inside information, that should be illegal." [14:28]
• The “Epstein class” and elite impunity as endemic to both political parties.

4. Elite vs. Public: Defining 'Elite' and Why It Matters

[18:36–19:38]

• Khanna distinguishes between ambitious, educated aspiration and the unfair advantage/cronyism of the elite:
  • "What elite to me means is not aspiration...What elite means is you don't get to play by a different set of rules." [19:27]

5. Transparency, Accountability, and the Roadblocks

[20:31–26:09]

• The difficulty and risk in pursuing transparency—personally and politically:
  • Pushback from within Khanna’s own party, accusations of being “too online,” and conspiracy theorist labels.

6. Silicon Valley, Populism & the Tech Oligarchy

[29:24–36:47]

• Khanna’s unique position as Silicon Valley’s representative; criticism from local billionaires about suggestions for higher taxation.
• Discusses the psychological transformation of tech leaders—libertarian, “aristocracy of talent,” and self-styled ‘great men.’
  • "They think that they're better allocators of capital...that they are carrying America on their shoulders." [43:41]
• Warns about a potential populist backlash if tech prosperity isn't broadly shared.

7. Artificial Intelligence, Labor, & the Future of Work

[38:28–42:56]

• The looming threat of AI and automation, especially to blue-collar jobs (truck drivers).
• Pushes for technology that augments, not replaces, human labor.
  • "AI needs to work for us, not just for them." [39:05]
• Calls for a “tech social contract” and reforms in IP law, data centers, and community investment.

8. Campaign Finance, Populism, and American Sports as a Model

[48:52–54:21]

• Khanna’s refusal to take PAC or lobbyist money; the broader problem of political capture by the “capital class.”
  • "Courage is the modern charisma. Do you have the guts to stand up to a capital class that will come after you?" [49:48]
• Torre draws parallels to sports as a realm where fair rules are enforced—contrasting this with public skepticism toward American governance.
  • "The premise of competition...is a rule book that forces fair play and that proves meritocracy is defended...by rule of law." [51:06]
• Khanna links sports’ popularity to a belief in fairness and transparency—qualities government lacks.

9. Restoring Trust and the Unlikely Power of the Epstein Files

[54:21–55:04]

• Khanna admits surprise at the impact of the Epstein Files:
  • "I did not. I thought this was kind of a side project ... I didn't think it would end up because of the survivors, because of the outcry, actually breaking through..." [54:34]

10. Online Engagement versus Disengagement

[55:04–58:18]

• Discusses Vivek Ramaswamy quitting “X”/Twitter, contrasting Khanna’s relentless, direct engagement.
  • "When you're in politics, I think you've got to have a sense that you'll go anywhere and talk to anyone to make your case..." [56:04–57:10]

11. Memorable Endnote: Congress by Smartphone

[58:18–59:11]

• Torre jokes that the most emblematic image is Khanna learning about an act of war through his phone.
  • "The visual of you learning that we just invaded Venezuela… on your phone, I mean, that's probably the tagline of this interview." [58:23]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Congressional impotence and war powers:
  "People have this hyped up sense of what it means to be a member of Congress and a senior member of Congress on the Armed Services Committee...No, I got the news like any of my colleagues are being honest on Twitter." – Ro Khanna [04:50]

• On elite accountability:
  "What elite to me means is not aspiration...What elite means is you don't get to play by a different set of rules." – Ro Khanna [19:27]

• On the Epstein scandal:
  "That's why I say this is one of the greatest scandals in American history. It's because the moral reckoning..." – Ro Khanna [20:16]

• On AI and the future of work:
  "AI needs to work for us, not just for them...You can't just go in and say in a year, two years, three years, we're going to eliminate all truck driving jobs." – Ro Khanna [39:05]

• On civic despair:
  "The greatest threat to our country, in my view, is not even the current president. It's despair and cynicism. It's the sense that people just give up." – Ro Khanna [53:00]

• Sports as the last trusted American institution:
  "People believe that sports work. They trust it. And they don't believe that the current political and economic system work. They feel that it's rigged against them." – Ro Khanna [52:02]

• On political courage:
  "Courage is the modern charisma. Do you have the guts to stand up to a capital class that will come after you...?" – Ro Khanna [49:48]

Episode Structure & Flow

1. Start: News of the Venezuela invasion and Congress’s role, or lack thereof.
2. Middle: Epstein Files—how and why the bill passed, reactions, the bipartisan push, and the symbolism of elite accountability.
3. Broader Reflections: Public trust, elite impunity, the risk of cynicism, and political realignment post-Trump.
4. Issues of the Future: Silicon Valley psychology, AI, labor, and economics.
5. Politics & Populism: What real versus rhetorical populism could mean; the influence of campaign money; sports as metaphor and inspiration.
6. End: Trust restoration, the power and pain of online engagement, and an uncertain but hopeful note for democratic possibility.

Conclusion

This episode offers a riveting, sobering examination of American power, technology, and justice—from the grim revelations of the Epstein case to the challenges of Silicon Valley and the meaning of democracy itself. Torre’s probing questions and Khanna’s candid, often impassioned responses make this essential listening for anyone interested in the intersection of politics, technology, and societal trust.

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