Podcast Title: Pablo Torre Finds Out
Episode: The Fake Sports Scandal Taking Over Fox News
Release Date: May 6, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Guests: Andrew Fishel, Red Sullivan

Introduction

In the latest episode of "Pablo Torre Finds Out", host Pablo Torre delves into a controversial sports scandal that has been making waves on Fox News. The episode, titled "The Fake Sports Scandal Taking Over Fox News," examines the disqualification of fencer Stephanie Turner for refusing to compete against transgender athlete Red Sullivan. Bringing on board fencing expert and whistleblower Andrew Fishel, the discussion navigates through media bias, governmental intervention, and underlying corruption within the sport of fencing.

Background of the Incident

The episode begins with Pablo Torre revisiting an investigative journey he previously embarked on with Andrew Fishel, uncovering corruption in Olympic saber fencing involving Russian oligarchs and international scandals (01:02). This foundation sets the stage for the current discussion on fencing integrity.

The Controversial Match

A pivotal moment discussed is the incident at the Cherry Blossom Open at the University of Maryland, where Stephanie Turner was disqualified for taking a knee and refusing to fence Red Sullivan, a transgender athlete. Turner was given a black card, leading to her immediate disqualification (04:10).

Andrew Fishel provides context, explaining that this was not an Olympic qualifying event but a casual tournament, undermining the gravity often portrayed by media outlets:

“This is a deeply unserious, unimportant tournament.” (16:05)

Media and Governmental Response

Pablo critiques the disproportionate media coverage, particularly by Fox News, which elevates the incident to a national controversy despite its limited importance in the fencing community. He highlights how political figures like Ted Cruz and Linda McMahon have taken interest, with Cruz sending a four-page letter to USA Fencing's CEO alleging violations of President Trump's executive order (08:10).

Andrew Fishel expresses skepticism about the intentions behind governmental investigations:

“It would be nice if it actually appeared as if they wanted to learn something from this investigation.” (09:52)

Assessing the Claims

The conversation moves to debunking the claims surrounding Turner’s disqualification. Andrew Fishel points out that both athletes involved were D-rated fencers, indicating a basic level of skill, and underscores the lack of competitive advantage in fencing related to physical attributes:

“Fencing is one of the safest sports that there is, and everyone has something to gain in practice, regardless of who the opponent is.” (19:34)

Red Sullivan provides her perspective, detailing her long-term commitment to competing as a woman and the rigorous process she underwent to transition, including over a year of hormone therapy (27:04).

Policy and Regulations

The duo discusses USA Fencing's policies, emphasizing that athletes must undergo a minimum of one year of testosterone suppression to compete in women's events, aligning with international standards set by the USOPC and IOC. Andrew Fishel criticizes the political pressure influencing these regulations:

“They're dealing with kind of pressure from two different directions.” (32:07)

Cheating Scandal and Corruption in Fencing

Shifting focus, Andrew Fishel introduces a separate but significant issue within fencing—the cheating scandal involving Lucia Lucarini. He recounts how Lucarini allegedly used a device in her epee to manipulate scoring, leading to unfair advantages during competitions (39:44).

Pablo and Andrew examine video evidence capturing Lucarini's father seemingly tampering with her equipment (43:42). Despite investigations, the Italian federation deemed the evidence inconclusive, yet Andrew Fishel stresses the importance of awareness and integrity in the sport:

“Anyone who's considering doing something hypothetically similar in the future would think twice about it.” (47:09)

Conclusion

Pablo Torre concludes the episode by reflecting on the disproportionate attention given to the transgender athlete scandal compared to more pressing issues within sports and society. He emphasizes the need for genuine discussions on athletic integrity and criticizes the media and governmental focus on what he deems trivial controversies.

Andrew Fishel echoes this sentiment, highlighting the silliness of prioritizing such narratives over substantial problems:

“It's just very silly.” (50:12)

The episode underscores the importance of discerning media narratives and advocating for integrity within sports, urging listeners to look beyond sensational headlines to understand the true complexities of athletic competitions.

Notable Quotes

• Pablo Torre:
  “I’m not saying that there aren’t, as you put it, like actual debates around the science and the regulations and competitive inequities.” (50:22)

• Andrew Fishel:
  “They both seem very silly to me. As a high-level fencing coach, I can safely say that I have never, ever told one of my female fencers not to fence a male fencer because it was dangerous.” (19:34)

• Red Sullivan:
  “I fenced almost an entire season in the NCAA on the women's team where nothing like this has happened.” (15:08)

Key Takeaways

• Media Bias: The episode highlights how media outlets can amplify minor incidents to national controversies, overshadowing more significant issues within sports.

• Policy Scrutiny: Governmental interventions in sports policies, especially regarding transgender athletes, are discussed as being influenced more by political agendas than by the sport’s integrity.

• Integrity in Fencing: The conversation sheds light on internal corruption within fencing, emphasizing the need for vigilance and accountability to maintain fair competition.

• Trans Athlete Narratives: The episode criticizes the oversimplification and politicization of transgender athlete participation, advocating for a more nuanced understanding of the policies and their implications.

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