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- [00:01]
Pablo Torre
Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're going to find out what this sound is.
- [00:09]
Paola Ramos
Help Jersey, who was a great trainer for us, guide him wherever he is.
- [00:18]
Pablo Torre
Right after this ad. You're listening to DraftKings Network. Hey, Lonzo Ball, it's your agent. What's up? I've got a commercial opportunity for you from Buzzball's ready to go. Cocktails.
- [00:37]
Paola Ramos
Nice. My last name is Ball. The product is a cocktail in a ball. I get it.
- [00:41]
Pablo Torre
That's what I thought too. But no, they want you for your hands. They think your big hands will show off the size of their new blue biggies.
- [00:47]
Paola Ramos
Ball. Big blue balls. Really?
- [00:51]
Pablo Torre
Get blue balls this season with Buzz Balls, please. You're responsible.
- [00:56]
Paola Ramos
Buzz Balls.
- [00:56]
Pablo Torre
Available in spirit, wine and malt, 15% alcohol. By Volvo and BU LLC, Carrollton, Texas. Your fandom for Real Madrid is.
- [01:09]
Paola Ramos
It's real in the sense that I. I grew up in. In Madrid in the 90s when it sort of exploding. I played basketball. Like, basketball was my thing. But there was no way to not love Real Madrid as a kid during those years. No, you had like. Everyone sort of like, was pulled into the game.
- [01:26]
Pablo Torre
They incentivized young kids growing up around Spain to be a front runner.
- [01:30]
Paola Ramos
You felt it in the streets. You felt it everywhere. It was, it.
- [01:32]
Pablo Torre
It was amazing watching this team, this club, excuse me, come to power for people who don't know anything about Real Madrid, don't give a. About soccer. What was that like?
- [01:43]
Paola Ramos
That was like, to me, like 1998, I believe is. It's. Is when it happens. I think I'm like 10 years old. It's one of the first times that my mom lets me stay up super late. And we're all watching the Real Madrid team parading through the streets of Madrid, ending up in this huge fountain called Cueles. They take off their shirts and they're just like, drinking champagne. There's this, like, turning point in who Real Madrid is.
- [02:16]
Pablo Torre
Yes. They become globally popular. They are globally a brand that lots of people know and care deeply about. Who didn't grow up in Madrid like you. When it comes to your favorite player, though, the soccer player that you were most entranced by on this team, who would that be?
- [02:36]
Paola Ramos
Oh, I remember Iger Garcilas. And I'll tell you, even I'm as gay as you can get. But Iker Garcillas, everyone loved Iger Casillas, even my. My old little young gay self.
- [02:47]
Pablo Torre
I am as straight as it gets. And I also love.
- [02:50]
Paola Ramos
So we're going to love each other.
- [02:51]
Pablo Torre
Iker Casillas. When I play on FIFA, I'm like, this goalie is the one I want. But he couldn't get it beyond the.
- [03:01]
Paola Ramos
Trailing leg of the Spanish captain.
- [03:04]
Pablo Torre
Very handsome.
- [03:05]
Paola Ramos
Yeah. I believed it too. He is.
- [03:10]
Pablo Torre
When I thought about, who do I need to help us understand and report this story? I was turning to you before I knew that you had any affiliation with Real Madrid as a concept, and now it feels almost inevitable that I would have had you work on something for weeks. And thank you so much for being here and for doing that, by the way, because it's one of the biggest stories going on, certainly in America, but also Latin America and also the world. You can make it as grandiose as you want, but it begins with something that's quite specific and quite small.
- [03:45]
Paola Ramos
Technically, we're literally talking about a tattoo. This is a story about the tattoo from hell. We're talking about 2018, the small town of Venezuela, and this tattoo is inked by this guy called Victor. And during that time, one of his best friends, Jerci Reyes Barrios, walks in and he asks for a tattoo of the Real Madrid. The favorite soccer team of Jerci Barrios jersey is someone that ends up becoming a goalie and ends up becoming a professional soccer player in Venezuela. But his very favorite soccer player is also Iger Casillas from Real Madrid. I mean, that was his dream and his idol growing up. He has a bunch of other tattoos. He has musical notes, a map of Venezuela, a goalkeeper, a hand with the pinky and the index fingers going up.
- [04:43]
Pablo Torre
I'm imagining, like, the rock and roll thing, right? A pinky and index finger up like that.
- [04:46]
Paola Ramos
Exactly. That's exactly that. And he also has tattoos of his two daughters. That's who Jersey is.
- [05:01]
Pablo Torre
And so he walks in, and he wants a new one. And his specific desire for this new tattoo is gonna be what it's all.
- [05:10]
Paola Ramos
Based on his love for Real Madrid. And he asked for something very simple, and that is a ball with a crown sitting on top. If you zoom into this tattoo, it's the ball, a crown on top, a rosary.
- [05:27]
Pablo Torre
But the Real Madrid part, I guess, to do the little bit of Spanish translation, I could do real means royal.
- [05:34]
Paola Ramos
That's right.
- [05:34]
Pablo Torre
And in this specific case, Real Madrid, more than any other club, has claims to being the royal franchise of Spain. This is sort of its own heritage, is that it does have a crown as certainly the most distinguishing part of its own logo.
- [05:50]
Paola Ramos
When Jersey walks into that tattoo parlor, he's specifically thinking about this team. And that's what the tattoo artist will tell you. That when he walks in and he gets this inked in his skin, it is all to sort of romanticize.
- [06:06]
Pablo Torre
He might have been thinking at this moment about Iker Casillas.
- [06:10]
Paola Ramos
That's right. As a goalie himself, literally, he's probably thinking about that. But you know what he was not thinking about in that moment? That is the fact that this tattoo would years later turn him into this alleged criminal gang member and that that tattoo would essentially make him disappear.
- [06:45]
Pablo Torre
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- [08:12]
Kaley Cuoco
For anyone just joining us, we're following breaking developments in the case of Kilmar.
- [08:16]
Paola Ramos
Abrego Garcia, a Maryland resident who officials admit was expelled by mistake.
- [08:22]
Pablo Torre
And then they looked, and on his knuckles, he had MS.13. There's a dispute. Wait a minute, wait a minute. He had MS.13 on his knuckles.
- [08:30]
Paola Ramos
Tattoos.
- [08:31]
Pablo Torre
He had some tattoos that are interpreted that way, but let's move on. Hundreds of illegal criminal gang members from Venezuela getting dropped off at a mega prison in El Salvador. They get free haircuts That's a good thing. President Trump deported them under the Alien Enemies Act. The Alien enemies Act of 1798 signed into law by President John Adams, allows non citizens to be deported without due process during times of war.
- [08:54]
Paola Ramos
Are you planning to do more deportations? I can tell you this.
- [08:57]
Pablo Torre
These were bad people.
- [08:59]
Paola Ramos
That was a bad group of, as I say, hombres.
- [09:03]
Pablo Torre
All of which is alarming, to say the least. To the point that even Republican loyalists to Trump, like Senator John Kennedy, for instance, the other day on Meet the Press, have called the ordeal, quote, a screw up.
- [09:17]
Paola Ramos
A screw up.
- [09:18]
Pablo Torre
Mr. Garcia was not supposed to be sent to El Salvador. He was sent to El Salvador. Now, the case of Mr. Garcia and the men sent to El Salvador with him is held up in the courts right now, including the Supreme Court, as we wait to see, I suppose, if the rule of law under the Trump administration is gonna hold. But meanwhile, we have been promised something. We have been promised that this is not a pattern. I don't see any pattern here. I mean, you know, someday pigs may fly, but I doubt it. But there is a pattern emerging. And you may have heard about this part, too, these other horrifying ordeals for these alleged gang members.
- [10:03]
Paola Ramos
Among hundreds of alleged gang members deported this past week to El Salvador was a Venezuelan migrant with a job and.
- [10:11]
Pablo Torre
No criminal record, a gay makeup artist.
- [10:13]
Kaley Cuoco
With no criminal record in this country.
- [10:14]
Pablo Torre
Or in his home country, Venezuela.
- [10:16]
Paola Ramos
At least 44 of the individuals who appear on the list obtained by CBS News do not appear to have criminal records in the US Or Venezuela.
- [10:26]
Pablo Torre
And in fact, this administration this week has decided to display the faces of these alleged terrorists on the lawn of the White House itself, just in time, as it happens, for Saquon Barkley and the rest of the Philadelphia Eagles to visit and celebrate their big super bowl win. All of which helps explain why the person sitting in our studio today is the Emmy winning journalist Paula Ramos. Paula, most recently the author of a book called the Rise of the Latino Far Right and what It Means for America. And Paula is here with me because she has been reporting on immigration for a decade now. And in fact, she just returned this week from the jungles of the Darien gap between Latin America and South America. And she has also reported for Vice on the exact intersection of where our story is gonna take us today. Tattoos, abductions, and now sports. This is a sports story in which we have a disappearing soccer player, a mystery around this tattoo from hell, as you called it. And so I want to further push the sports part of it. I Just want a scouting report on who hearsey is, where he came from, him, the person.
- [11:44]
Paola Ramos
So everyone you talk to when they mention the name Jersey is that he was sweet. He's this very sweet, kind young boy. He grows up in northern Venezuela in a town called Machiques, Literally known for, like, for cows. None of them. It's rural. Everyone says that he loved to draw. He likes to dance salsa. I talked to his sister, Jorge Eliz Reye, who's still living in that town, by the way. Even talking to her was a little bit hard just because of the Internet connection, and the power was out a lot of times. Okay. But she still really, really wanted to talk about her brother. When she talks about her brother, she remembers him loving baseball as a very young kid. But the interesting thing is that Jersey's dad is a portero. He's a goalie. So Jerci kind of grows up watching his dad playing soccer, and then he starts to sort of love the game and love the sport. Jersey's father starts training his son Slowly. Jersey kind of forgets about baseball. He's completely focused on soccer. This love for Real Madrid starts. This obsession with the game starts. One of the things that his sister told me repeatedly was para todre. Football, football, football, football. I mean, literally, when his sister talks about Jersi, it's just football. That's literally all that she talks about, because that's the image that comes to her mind. The thing about Jersey, and that's what his sister describes, is that he kept going. Like, he kept fighting for this dream. He starts training with one of his dad's former teammates. It's this coach named Dog. This coach is still in the very same town where Jerze grew up.
- [14:12]
Pablo Torre
So describe what we're seeing here. This. This place that he grew up.
- [14:16]
Paola Ramos
What was, I think, beautiful about this conversation that I had with the coach is that he was just, like, kind of. He couldn't. He couldn't wait to. To. To get out of that room and show me the field where he watched Dirsi grow up. So there's this moment where he literally, like, takes me out. He's like, come with me. And he. He walks down the street and he starts. You know, he flips his camera the other way, and he literally shows me in this very humble field in the middle of nowhere. And you can see there's literally, like, not much around there. But this. This gives them so much pride. This gives them so much dignity. And this is the field where this coach watches Jersey grow up.
- [15:12]
Pablo Torre
So when he's climbing the ladder. What does his ascent look like through soccer to the pros?
- [15:18]
Paola Ramos
He joins these, like, travel teams. So he gets to to travel across Venezuela and different regions, different cities. He then becomes a starting keeper on a champion under 60 national team. He actually made it to to a tournament in Barcelona. So I'm just like picturing this dream exactly like this kid that, like, is obsessed with Real Madrid and he eventually makes it pro know in the Venezuelan pro football league.
- [15:46]
Pablo Torre
I'm imagining a goalkeeper. The pressure that you have to not this up.
- [15:53]
Paola Ramos
That's what the. The coach kept talking about. El Ultimo Torneo. This like, specific moment in this specific era where Jerzid leads his team to the final of the third division.
- [16:12]
Pablo Torre
The third division is a division you want to escape if you have bigger dreams for yourself. And on the line in this game that you guys were talking about is promotion to the second division, which is a huge deal.
- [16:28]
Paola Ramos
From what he describes. It comes down to penalty kicks. All this tension building up. Whether they make it or not depends on these penalty kicks. Then what the coach says is that Jersey's team scores. So all eyes are on him, right? Everyone.
- [16:45]
Pablo Torre
The lonely thing.
- [16:46]
Paola Ramos
Yeah. Will he stop the next goal or not? He just needs to do this one save. Crowd goes wild. That he becomes a hero. He becomes this idol. And that, I think, is one of the reasons why to this day he's so beloved and remembered. Right? Because he proves he can take this, you know, small, humble team to the next level. And that's exactly what he does.
- [17:25]
Pablo Torre
And when I look at the record that Jose assembled as this goalkeeper, it doesn't stop in the second division. He makes it to the first division. And at this point, what happens to him?
- [17:37]
Paola Ramos
Life gets in the middle. No, I mean, I think the reality of Venezuela in that time is that many people, like, have to leave. So Jose is a soccer player, but he also suddenly becomes an immigrant when he goes to Colombia to find better economic opportunities, to support his two daughters, to support his father, who needed a very expensive treatment for a glaucoma that he had to deal with. So in 2016, Jercy's 26 years old. He goes to Bogota, to Colombia. He finds money, and he keeps playing in Colombia because that love for soccer is always there. He kind of keeps in touch with this soccer club that sees him growing up, returns to that beautiful feel that the coach shows me on his phone. And so not only does does Jersey come back, but he starts coaching some of the very same kids that grew up in the same town that Jersey does. The coach is saying that every time Jerci would come back from Colombia, he would visit this soccer club and he would train the kids and he would train some of the goalies. He would train the. The youth league. He had no ego. No. He sort of never forgot where he came from.
- [18:55]
Pablo Torre
When you referenced that he is from a complicated Venezuela, explain what that means in terms of the decision that is made to go and help his family by leaving. How uncommon is a decision like that in the context we're describing?
- [19:12]
Paola Ramos
I'll put it this way. The coach at one point tells me that when he looks at his team, he sees, in his words, that means that at one point he sees that most of his soccer players are gone. That he doesn't have enough soccer players to literally play games. And the reason why is because many of them have had to flee Venezuela, not to leave Venezuela. And the same reasons why did to get better opportunities and to find things elsewhere that they just couldn't find in Venezuela, to immigrate, to get out of the country.
- [19:47]
Pablo Torre
And we're very much involved with the Venezuela crisis. It's a horrible thing, a horrible situation.
- [19:52]
Paola Ramos
It's been brewing for many years. A country that for many years at this point has been in the midst of a political and economic crisis. Breaking news out of Venezuela, where the political and humanitarian crisis has reached a boiling point.
- [20:05]
Pablo Torre
Point. So this football crisis in the context of the larger crisis then of Venezuela. For people who are not familiar with the character of Maduro, how would you introduce him?
- [20:33]
Paola Ramos
Nicolas Maduro is someone that many people in Venezuela and around the world would call a dictator.
- [20:41]
Pablo Torre
President of Venezuela, Maduro, the now dictator.
- [20:44]
Paola Ramos
Dictator Maduro.
- [20:46]
Pablo Torre
Nicolas Maduro is a dictator with no.
- [20:48]
Paola Ramos
Legitimate claim to power because he's someone that continues the legacy of Hugo Chavez. Chavez has raised Nicolas Maduro to the seat of power since Chavez, but he's particularly known for his political repression. The idea of having civil liberties and rights and freedom of press does not exist in Venezuela. On top of that. And I think this is when it becomes very real for people like Jerci and these soccer players.
- [21:21]
Pablo Torre
You may remember that Venezuela is a country in chaos right now. The economy has crashed. People can't afford food and medicine. Telling Venezuelans that humanitarian aid is part of a conspiracy to overthrow his government, all of which has left Venezuelans feeling so hopeless.
- [21:36]
Paola Ramos
For the last seven plus years, there's been over 7 million people that have left Venezuela that have migrated. And so I'll put it this way. Many of the images that you may remember from those thousands of asylum seekers.
- [21:49]
Pablo Torre
Thousands of asylum seekers are still, still there, waiting and hoping in makeshift camps and shelters.
- [21:55]
Paola Ramos
Many of them were Venezuelans escaping the Nicolas Maduro regime.
- [22:01]
Pablo Torre
We're talking about a guy in Maduro who by the way, isn't a friend of Donald Trump.
- [22:07]
Paola Ramos
Trump casts himself as an anti Maduro, anti socialist, anti communist American president. And so Nicolas Maduro is one of Donald Trump's biggest enemies. This is where Jersey's fleeing from? No, he's fleeing from Maduro.
- [22:23]
Pablo Torre
And so to fit herse into this political matrix in which there's Trump and Maduro on opposite sides, where does he fit when it comes to how explicit his beliefs are about what's happening?
- [22:38]
Paola Ramos
So Dirsi did something that thousands of Venezuelans did. Dirci decides to take the streets. And it was really brave knowing that is that in February 2024 and in March 2024, he decides to protest against the Nicolas Maduro regime. And I say that's very brave because we're talking about a regime known for having political prisoners. So in the second demonstration that JC participates in, things get really dark. From what we've been told, after one of these protests, he's taken to this clandestine building.
- [23:20]
Pablo Torre
And what does it look like behind the scenes when that happens?
- [23:25]
Paola Ramos
Allegedly his treatment involved electric shocks and suffocation. So we've been told that Diersey was threatened by the Nicolas Maduro regime and that if he were ever to march again that he would be, quote, disappeared and that he would spend the rest of his life in prison. And I've been told that Jersey was really worried that this could actually happen because it has been happening.
- [23:50]
Pablo Torre
And so just to state as clearly as we can as well, what is dare say his criminal record? None.
- [23:58]
Paola Ramos
None whatsoever. He has no criminal records in Venezuela.
- [24:02]
Pablo Torre
So if he also has a clean sheet when it comes to his legal standing, I'm trying to imagine what the case would be against him. How does he live his life? How, how out here is he when it comes to being reckless, even in a non criminal way?
- [24:16]
Paola Ramos
I mean, the first thing that his family would say and that his sister says is that he's a good guy. Right? This is, we're talking about someone that doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke. He literally has a record of having countless jobs on the field, playing soccer and his life was and is football. No, but like I said, there is no criminal record of Jersey in Venezuela. The only crime that he committed in the eyes of the government was protesting.
- [24:48]
Pablo Torre
And so now I'm Returning to that image of people trying to get the out. And I'm imagining the decision that Jersey is facing, given that the man in power and his administration are seemingly allegedly not just electrocuting him, suffocating him, but now threatening him to never do anything like this again. And so what is the choice he has in front of him?
- [25:12]
Paola Ramos
Yeah, so a little bit after March 2024, he kind of is faced with a decision that many migrants are faced with. Do you leave or do you stay? In his case, he's facing, of course, sort of this political repression in Venezuela. He's facing the reality of his parents, his dad that needs this glaucoma treatment. And he comes to the conclusion that he has to leave Venezuela and head towards the United States. Darcy goes through the Darien jungle. Now, remember, the Darien jungle is over 10 miles of one of the most dangerous places that I've been to in my life. He makes his way towards Mexico. Mexico also, from what I've been told by his sister, becomes a very, very dangerous place for Gersin. There's thousands of asylum seekers like him that have to live in limbo. He then goes through the legal system to apply for asylum and to enter the United States. What does he do? He opens his CBP1 application, download the CBP1 app from the App Store or Google Play. The app is free.
- [26:22]
Pablo Torre
Right. So he's downloaded the official app. This is how it worked. And this was under the Biden administration, by the way. This is just last year, the spring of last year.
- [26:31]
Paola Ramos
It takes him approximately five months from when he leaves Venezuela until he enters the United states through the CBP1 application.
- [26:40]
Pablo Torre
And so he gets not asylum, but an appointment to make his case that he is deserving of the refuge at the United States is offering.
- [26:50]
Paola Ramos
Exactly. So here comes September 1, 2024. Dercy presents himself at the border, and he's permitted to enter legally immediately. But then he's placed inside an ICE detention center in San Diego.
- [27:03]
Pablo Torre
The waiting room is an ICE detention facility in San Diego.
- [27:06]
Paola Ramos
That's right. Dirsey at this point, is waiting in limbo for months. He's waiting for his scheduled immigration hearing. And he's there for so long that by January 16, 2025, he actually spends his birthday inside this detention center. He turns 36 old inside.
- [27:22]
Pablo Torre
And that is a useful date for us because now tracking quite neatly alongside January of this year is the changeover in power from Joe Biden to Donald Trump. I will declare a national emergency at our southern border.
- [27:38]
Paola Ramos
And so, as sort of Trump is Rising. Jersey's inside this detention center waiting for this alleged immigration hearing to take place. Fast forward to March 14, 2025. Jersey's sister told us that she got a call from her brother to wish her a happy birthday. Well, the first thing she talks about is that she notices something different in Jersey's voice. That she notices that he's shaky and nervous and that he's not being himself. And then Jersey asked about one of his daughters, right?
- [28:18]
Pablo Torre
His two kids.
- [28:20]
Paola Ramos
He's able to talk to one of them. He says, what are you eating? And the daughter responds, I'm eating cheese, Daddy. I love you. Jersey says back to his daughter, I love you, too. And then he says, I don't have much time to talk. And that's the very last time that Jersey is able to talk to his family.
- [28:58]
Pablo Torre
Hey there, travelers.
- [28:58]
Paola Ramos
Kaley Cuoco here. Sorry to interrupt your music great artist, BT Dubs, but wouldn't you rather be there to hear it live? With Priceline, you can get out of your dreams and into your dream concert.
- [29:08]
Pablo Torre
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- [29:12]
Paola Ramos
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- [29:32]
Pablo Torre
So, Paola, this is a story I just need to remind everybody that started and is conceivably about gangs. And we now know that Jerusalem has lost contact with his family. They haven't spoken to him. We are closer now to the present tense. And I just want to know where the are the gangs in this story that you've reported for us, because they have been noticeably absent so far for a reason.
- [30:00]
Paola Ramos
Right? So the gangs are part of this story in a. In a very important way. Now, the reason why D disappears is because the Trump administration claims that that Real Madrid tattoo that you and I talked about at the beginning, that tattoo is what allegedly makes him a part of El Trend Aragua.
- [30:23]
Pablo Torre
This morning, we're learning new details about the Venezuelan gang Trend is arguably the most ruthless, violent, menacing gang now designated as terrorists. So these are now terrorists. This accusation that he's a member of this gang, according to a declaration that I'm going to quote from here, is based on two things. First, he has a tattoo on his arm of a crown sitting atop a soccer ball with a rosary and the word Dios, which we began the show with. And the Department of Homeland Security alleges that this is proof of gang membership. This tattoo from hell.
- [30:58]
Paola Ramos
Literally. This young man that has no criminal records in either Venezuela or the United States, that has never even set foot outside a detention center. Yes, in the United States. This man is now being accused of being part of because of this Real Madrid tattoo.
- [31:18]
Pablo Torre
He's not the only person in the world of professional soccer who has this tattoo or something quite like it. No less than Neymar himself has a tattoo on his back, right calf. The third most popular athlete in the world, probably behind Ronaldo and Messi. You know, depending on how you put Lebron in there. I put Neymar on the medal stand. He has this Paola, look, there it is, right? Soccer ball with crown on top. Paolo Dybala, an Argentinian football superstar. Same tattoo. Here's a photo of that same place. Crown on top of ball. And we were trying on our staff Paola to figure out, like, what is the appropriate reference point. And I think we settled on this is kind of like getting a flaming basketball. It's just a thing you get because you're hot.
- [32:07]
Paola Ramos
Yeah. Again, like, why do people get tattoos? Because they have passions.
- [32:14]
Pablo Torre
And so at this point, I just need to jump in to emphasize something broader about not simply this particular sports themed tattoo, but also tattoos in general, as this marker, according to the federal government for membership in trend, which is that this entire concept is bull. A leading criminology professor at the Central University of Venezuela recently told the New Yorker that this administration's tattoo strategy is, quote, the first time I've ever encountered any reference to the significance of tattoos as it regards Trender Agua, which is a gang, by the way, that this professor has spent his career studying. He then called the whole thing, quote, absurd and naive. Meanwhile, the author of the definitive book on Trender Agua happens to be a journalist named Rona Rizquez, and she spent her career investigating criminal groups across Venezuela. What you should know, according to her is, quote, venezuelan gangs are not identified by tattoos. And yet this is Precisely, precisely how ICE, U.S. customs and Immigration Enforcement has been actively justifying the disappearance of people without criminal records. Again, like Jersey Reyes Barrios. And in fact, on the Texas state government's website, to also broaden the scope out here, we found a literal PowerPoint presentation with a slide entitled Trend Dash Tattoos and other Identifiers, end quote. And right there in the top right corner, which you can see right now on YouTube, is the Jumpman logo. Yes, the Jumpman logo for, you know, Air Jordan with the number 23 beneath it, which, as I trust you can now understand, feels both irresponsible and actually insane.
- [34:15]
Paola Ramos
If these soccer players and basketball players and sort of famous celebrities were not in the public eye, and if they were just like random black and brown men walking down the streets, potentially, from what we know of the legacy of ICE and previous presidential administrations, they would be racially profiled because of their tattoos.
- [34:35]
Pablo Torre
Yes.
- [34:36]
Paola Ramos
And very likely could end up like Jersey. And I've seen this, I've reported on this in the past. No racially profiling people because of these mundane tattoos with no evidence whatsoever to showcase that they are actually dangerous criminals.
- [34:50]
Pablo Torre
That part that all it takes is one tattoo that is cross checked against some PowerPoint somewhere in which also on the list are roses, guns, God forbid, by the way, you're a train enthusiast. We got a locomotive smack dab in the middle here. It just makes me think of the strategic incompetence. If you are using this as sufficient evidence for declaring that someone like our goalie in this story is actually part of a terrorist organization.
- [35:28]
Paola Ramos
It's lazy, it's cruel, it's racist.
- [35:32]
Pablo Torre
Just this quote, right? Like to go back to this legal document quote, DHS reviewed JRSA's social media posts and found a photo of Mr. Reyes Barrios making a hand gesture that they allege is proof of gang membership. And for those who are not watching on YouTube and are missing the visuals on this, can you describe the gesture he's making?
- [35:51]
Paola Ramos
It's literally a rock and roll sign. A sign that has often been used in sign language to say I love you.
- [35:59]
Pablo Torre
And on Instagram, by the way, this guy's making all sorts. It's like peace signs, thumbs up, rock and roll gestures, all this stuff. You see all the kids on his youth soccer team there.
- [36:07]
Paola Ramos
He's goofy guy. So I talked to his lawyer, actually to Indi's lawyer, who spent a lot of time sort of dissecting this tattoo image and dissecting this hand gesture.
- [36:18]
Kaley Cuoco
The hand gesture. The hand gesture.
- [36:19]
Paola Ramos
Is this one of her responses to the government was literally just like, check your emojis right? On your phone.
- [36:25]
Kaley Cuoco
Emojis on your phone. But it didn't matter to dhs.
- [36:30]
Pablo Torre
I have been wondering who is the person who is actually fighting for him against the US Government?
- [36:36]
Kaley Cuoco
I'm Lynette Tobin, an immigration attorney and solo practitioner in San Diego.
- [36:42]
Paola Ramos
She's not just protecting Jersey at this point, but she's literally taking on the government.
- [36:46]
Kaley Cuoco
I am one individual basically fighting against the government.
- [36:52]
Paola Ramos
This is what she told me about the Very last time she talked to.
- [36:55]
Kaley Cuoco
Jersey, I got a call and learned from him that he was being transferred. He wasn't sure where. He just said he was being transferred. And then the next day he called me and he was in Texas this time instead of San Diego. Couldn't tell me what prison he was at. He didn't know. Simply Texas. His family was getting increasingly anxious. They had heard about these Venezuelans being sent to El Salvador. Of course, they didn't know for sure that he was there, but they knew he had tattoos and they knew he was Venezuelan. And they're used to hearing from him, if not daily, almost daily. And asked me to please find out if he was still in the US And I communicate with him through an app. And I checked that app and it showed that he was still at the prison. So I told them, no, he's still here. He's. He's okay. But he wasn't. They simply never. DHS never removed him from the app. He's. He's still on my app. As someone who is present in the US at this prison in Texas tonight.
- [38:12]
Paola Ramos
The Trump administration sharing this dramatic video from the president of El Salvador showing alleged Venezuelan gang members arriving to his country overnight marching into prison.
- [38:23]
Kaley Cuoco
Hersey's aunt sees a picture on the news of these men who are on their knees with their heads down and their heads being forcibly shaved.
- [38:34]
Paola Ramos
The administration deporting hundreds of Venezuelans from the US that they accuse of being members of Trende Aragua despite a federal judge yesterday ordering the administration to temporarily cease deportations under the Alien Enemies Act.
- [38:49]
Kaley Cuoco
They see someone who looks like Hersey, they get very worried. So finally I reach someone at ICE who confirms that he has been removed from the country. I give that news to the family and they. They sobbed. There has been a lot of crying.
- [39:21]
Pablo Torre
It's the footage that has been posted on the social media account of the President of El Salvador Bukele, who has, for those not familiar with his work, has called himself the world's coolest dictator.
- [39:33]
Paola Ramos
He loves this, right? And so I think at this point, like, these are exactly the images that he wants people to see.
- [39:39]
Pablo Torre
We're talking about a maximum security prison designed to hold and essentially banish terrorists from civilization.
- [39:49]
Kaley Cuoco
It is the most maximum security prison in El Salvador. It can hold up to 40,000 prisoners. The prisoners are held in large cells of at least 80 people. In one cell, there are no windows. They never go outside. They aren't even taken out of the cell to eat. There are two open toilets that all of these men Share. There is no privacy. They're constantly on camera and the lights are never turned off. They have nothing. They are simply in the cell 23 and a half hours a day and they do nothing. They just sit there. We do know that people at this prison are tortured. They're beaten, they aren't given medical attention. It's a very frightening circumstance.
- [40:41]
Pablo Torre
And somewhere in this photo of these people being lined up in what is a de facto concentration camp, somewhere in there is, is, is the goalie we've been talking about.
- [40:52]
Paola Ramos
Now what do you call that? Now what do you call this image? What do you call this transfer of Venezuelans from the United States to El Salvador? Do you call that deportation? Do you call that kidnapped?
- [41:04]
Kaley Cuoco
I'm not going to call it a deportation because he does not have an order of deportation. They took these people, did not tell them where they were being taken, put them on a plane forcibly and sent them to a third country. These men have no connection with El Salvador. They have disappeared them. The government has refused to say where they're being held, even though we know where they're being held. They have no contact with their attorneys, no contact with their families. They can't receive letters, they can't receive their calls. Not even the International Red Cross has been able to see these people. They have been disappeared by our government.
- [41:48]
Pablo Torre
It's the place that we saw also because Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noemi went and took a photo op trip to pose in front of some of those bars and some of those men and then posted it, of course, on social.
- [42:02]
Paola Ramos
Media here at CECOT today and visiting this facility. If you come to our country illegally, this is one of the consequences you could face. First of all, do not come to our country illegally. You will be removed and you will be prosecuted. But know that this facility is one of the tools in our toolkit that we will use, use if you commit.
- [42:20]
Pablo Torre
Crimes against the American people.
- [42:22]
Paola Ramos
She says if you come to our country illegally. Number one, Di didn't come illegally. No. She, he used a legal process. Number two, and they're making this assumption without any evidence that everyone that is standing behind her is part of ELA or Ms. 13. And so this is for sure a, a, a show of strength from the Trump administration. But the, the biggest weakness is that in doing this, they have completely dismantled any democratic norm. Any sign of due process.
- [42:50]
Pablo Torre
Yes.
- [42:51]
Paola Ramos
That makes us who we're supposed to be. No. Which is a democracy. That's gone.
- [42:54]
Pablo Torre
Right. The idea that if you suspect that this former professional soccer player, this father of two this man is in fact gang affiliated, terrorist associated, that you should go through the legal system and prove it as opposed to disappearing him. That's what the fight is right now, broadly speaking and in specific, that is the hell that this tattoo has brought.
- [43:24]
Paola Ramos
Jerusaletu who would have known that this guy that grew up loving soccer, that became a soccer player that wanted this real madri tattoo that left his country inspired by what the United States is supposed to mean, inspired by what Venezuela doesn't have, which is law and order, due process, freedoms, rights, basic liberties, protesting.
- [43:54]
Pablo Torre
The dictator that is an enemy of the man in charge of our country who sent him to El Salvador to be under the watch of another dictator.
- [44:05]
Paola Ramos
Who would have known that that person would have ended up in El Salvador. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel from time to time with services like Prime Video, Amazon Music and fast free delivery, Prime Mixity's to get more out of whatever you're into or getting into, visit Amazon.comprime to learn more.
- [44:52]
Pablo Torre
So I should say Paola, that we here at Palbitori finds out did get a quote from the Department of Homeland Security. They provided us with the following statement. Jerze Reyes Barrios was not only in the United States illegally, but he has tattoos that are consistent with those indicating TDA trend gang membership. His own social media indicates he is a member of the vicious TDA gang. That all said DH intelligence assessments go beyond a single tattoo and we are confident in our findings, end quote. And so naturally we had multiple detailed follow up questions about those assessments, about whether they were even talking about assessments of Jersey. In particular, we had questions about why the government is so confident about any of that, about any specifics that they might be able to offer us. And eventually Trisha McLaughlin, the Assistant Secretary at the Department of Homeland Security did get back to us in an email and she said this quote. No, I am not referring to Barrios specifically. Our intelligence goes beyond social media and tattoos, full stop. We aren't going to hand over our national security information and put law enforcement in harm's way every time a terrorist and gang member says they aren't one. That would be insane.
- [46:06]
Paola Ramos
Unfortunately, there's, there's no surprise here. No. And I think watching this country turn into the, the Venezuelan almost that that Jersey escaped is, is alarming.
- [46:20]
Pablo Torre
And so at this point it is just worth me reiterating, perhaps the defining aspect of the United States itself, which is that in a constitutional democracy like ours, people like Jersey Reyes barrios are in fact allowed to say that they are not a terrorist and not a gang member and to, in fact, prove that in a court of law, which is why currently a federal judge in Washington is threatening to hold the Trump administration in contempt for preventing so many of these men from Venezuela who got swept away by our government on those planes in the middle of the night from making their case as to why they should not be kicked out. And meanwhile, back in San Diego today, actually exactly six months after that first appointment that Jersey had, the one that got, you know, spat out by the government's free iPhone app so that he could legally and transparently make his original case to be let into this country, our country. Jerusay's lawyer is finally expecting something. She's expecting to hear from Jerusay's personal immigration judge with a decision on whether to dismiss his claim to asylum, his claim to legal status officially, or to keep Jerusay's case open so that he can continue his request when and if he returns to the United States or even some other country. But no matter the official law of the land, no matter the due process here, the Trump administration is expected to push back. They're expected to brush aside that due process and the humanity involved in favor of dictatorship. And so, yes, it is certainly worth sounding some alarm, and it is also quite appropriate to be cynical about America today. But in Venezuela, something else is happening. Back on the pitch. And so as much as this is a story that isn't otherwise being told here in America, what's it like back home where Jerusale is from?
- [48:41]
Paola Ramos
I mean, I think there's two stories. No, there's a story of pain that his family is feeling. His sister and his parents are waiting anxiously every single day to just know if their brother and their son is alive. Jersey's daughters are waiting. Jersey's partner is living in limbo right now in the u. S. Mexico border, in tapachulas and one of the most dangerous Mexican towns, Also wondering if her partner is dead or alive. But then there's the. The flip side of the story, right? Which is the essence of who this man is. And that is the impact that he had in that soccer field years ago, the impact that he had training those kids, talking to those kids about this sport that has given them dreams and opportunities outside of Venezuela. If you walk through dercy's hometown right now, you'll see a mural of him. If you Go to his soccer team, to Periganero fc, and the kids are talking about him. This kid, Alan Carvajal, he's a goalie in the youth team in the very same field again where Jersey grew up. And his message is clear, having a tattoo is not a crime. And I think the part of the story is also understanding that any one of those kids and any one of these kids that are now trying to be Jersey could end up like Jersey, where, you know, leaving this soccer team can end up taking you to a detention center mega prison in El Salvador.
- [50:25]
Pablo Torre
It just occurs to me, Paola, that this is a lot for a bunch of 10 year olds to deal with, right? The idea that your athletic idol, whether it is Iker Casillas or Jerusale Reyes Barrios would, would, would be gone somewhere. Trapped in a nightmare of the United States and the dictator of El Salvador's creation. And so what are these team meetings like? What are, what's practice like now for this team?
- [50:57]
Paola Ramos
Practice now ends with a prayer and practice ends with Jersey's name in people's minds. He's remembered. Thank you for this day and also for our families. We ask that you help us and also members of the family, help Jersey, who was a great trainer for us, guide him wherever he is, helps to free him, liberate him, so he's free wherever he is. Father, give him strength and courage and let him know that he is with us, the Venezuelans. Amen.
- [51:47]
Pablo Torre
It's hard not to think of that Paola as the goalie's prayer, right? Praying for someone now to save him.
- [51:56]
Paola Ramos
To save him. Yeah. I mean, it's. It's beautiful now that he remains alive in that field with them. Some somehow.
- [52:05]
Pablo Torre
Yeah. Paola Ramos, thank you so much for helping us tell this story.
- [52:12]
Paola Ramos
Thank you for letting me do that. It really was a true honor.
- [52:36]
Pablo Torre
This has been. Pablo Torre FINDS OUT A Metal ARC Media Production and I'll talk to you next time.