The Goalie Who Went to Hell and Back

Summary

Pablo Torre Finds Out – "The Goalie Who Went to Hell and Back" (Dec 9, 2025)

Overview

In this gripping episode, Pablo Torre follows the harrowing journey of Herse Reyes—a Venezuelan professional soccer goalkeeper and youth coach who fled political turmoil, only to be disappeared by U.S. authorities and imprisoned in a notorious Salvadoran detention center. With correspondent Paola Ramos, the episode unpacks layers of geopolitics, Trump-era immigration policies, sports fandom, human rights abuse, and ultimately, resilience.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Disappearance and the "Goalie's Prayer"

• Opening Context (02:38–04:11)

  • Pablo recalls a previous episode that ended with uncertainty over Reyes' fate, contextualized by prayers from his youth soccer team in Matiques, Venezuela.
  • The team, boys under 12 at Peranero Football Club, prayed for their missing coach:

    “Guide him wherever he is. Help free him, liberate him, so he’s free.” (03:51, Paola Ramos)

• Why Did Reyes Leave? (05:10–05:30)

  • Venezuela’s ongoing turmoil: violence, dictatorship under Nicolas Maduro, and human rights abuses. Over 8 million have fled since 2015.

• The U.S. "Dream"—and Detention (06:21–07:41)

  • Reyes escapes Venezuela, legally seeks asylum at the U.S. border, and is detained—then shuffled from California to Texas, before suddenly vanishing.
  • Family members, including his young daughters and sister, are left in the dark:

    “His sister… says: ‘I love you.’ He says: ‘I love you too. I don't have much time to talk.’” (07:07–07:22, Pablo Torre & Paola Ramos)

Entering "Hell"—El Salvador’s Mega Prison

• From ICE to El Salvador’s Sekot Prison (07:41–08:12)

  • Reyes ends up in a maximum-security prison known as No Sekot Sicote, infamous for brutal conditions, called “El Infierno”—Hell.

    “No one knows what happens inside that place. It’s a place where they typically place criminals.” (08:12, Paola Ramos)

• Conditions and International Condemnation

  • Reports from Human Rights Watch and U.S. State Department mark life in Sekot as "life-threatening”—torture, violence, deaths (08:21–08:37).

How Did This Happen? Tattoos, Mistaken "Gang" Affiliation, and Political Calculus

• The Real Madrid Tattoo (14:38–17:28)

  • U.S. Homeland Security flagged Reyes' soccer tattoo and others as “gang indicators.”

    “He has tattoos that are consistent with those indicating TDA [Tren de Aragua] gang membership.” (15:08, Pablo Torre) “He’s showing the crown. He’s talking about the soccer ball… his favorite team is Real Madrid.” (16:09–16:27, Paola Ramos)

  • Reyes was interrogated:

    “‘This does not represent any gang in his country.’ But then the inspector says… ‘For us here in America, you are a gang member. You are a danger to society.’” (17:28–17:51, Paola Ramos)

• Shipped off under the Cover of Bureaucracy (18:11–19:28)

  • Reyes is suddenly placed on a plane, surrounded by ICE, DEA, and FBI. He's told he’s being deported to Venezuela, but is instead sent to El Salvador.
  • On arrival, Salvadoran guards greet them with:

    “‘Welcome to El Salvador, you son of a…’ [Explicit].” (20:48, Paola Ramos)

Life (and Survival) Inside Hell

• Recognition Amidst the Prison Parade (21:19–22:13)

  • Reyes’ family spots him in official government footage—by identifying his distinct "goalie's thumb" and a Michael Jordan tattoo on another detainee.

    “A goalie’s thumb is a particular digit… that is what makes them realize… their loved one is in Sekot.” (22:09–22:13, Paola Ramos)

• Physical and Psychological Abuse (23:05–24:35)

  • Reyes recounts being beaten, witnessing violence, hearing screams, and enduring solitary confinement—physical and psychological torture:

    “‘Is this what you lived? Is this torture?’ ‘Yes.’” (24:17–24:26, Paola Ramos)

  • Detainees could only shower at 4:30 AM or risk further abuse (24:52–25:07). Solitary confinement (“La Isla”) remains shrouded in mystery.

• How Reyes Coped (26:45–27:20)

  • Clung to visions of soccer and his daughters as motivation:

    “He had this dream of a soccer field… playing, with his daughters…” (27:00–27:20, Paola Ramos)

• The Power of Hope & The World Watching (28:02–28:55)

  • News leaks of outside advocacy, particularly work by his sister, lifted morale:

    “Someone tells him the world is watching…That gave him the hope he needed to, to hold on.” (28:18–28:55, Paola Ramos)

The Prisoner Swap & Release

• The Night Before Release (34:14–35:20)

  • Unprecedented: Detainees are allowed to shower at 2:00 AM, receive toiletries—signaling something significant is happening.

• Pledge on the Bus to Freedom (35:50–36:26)

  • The men resolve they’d rather die than return to Sekot as they’re bussed to the airport:

    “They all make a pledge…they would rather lose their lives than going back to this terrorist prison.” (35:50–36:26, Paola Ramos)

• Reunion and “Hero’s Welcome” in Matiques (37:25–38:12)

  • Reyes returns home to joyous crowds, his soccer students, and community pride:

    “This is like a Taylor Swift level…number of phones with their flashlights…He’s immediately welcomed back a hero.” (37:32–37:49, Pablo Torre & Paola Ramos)

Broader Impact & Unresolved Justice

• Lawsuits and International Claims (41:36–42:25)

  • The League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC) is filing claims for unlawful detention under the Federal Tort Claims Act.
  • The case may go before the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights.

• Broken American Dream and Troubling Warnings (42:42–44:37)

  • Reyes’ warning to others: Don’t seek the American dream; even tells soccer fans to avoid the U.S. during the upcoming World Cup for fear of racial profiling.

    “Would you do it again? He said: ‘No, no, no. It is not worth it.’” (43:08, Paola Ramos) “Don’t come, don’t go to the World Cup.” (44:12, Paola Ramos)

Closure & Final Messages

• Back to Coaching—Not the Dream, But a Dream (45:02–45:57)

  • Reyes is back coaching young goalkeepers, focusing on opening a goalie academy for kids.

    “He wants to raise another generation of goalies…give those kids a new goalie school.” (45:51–45:57, Paola Ramos)

• The New Real Madrid Tattoo (47:47–48:38)

  • Despite all that happened, Reyes bears no shame for his tattoos—he plans to get a second Real Madrid tattoo in defiance and pride:

    “He has no regrets at all. In fact…he did nothing wrong…He wants another Real Madrid tattoo.” (48:24–48:53, Paola Ramos)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the prayer for Reyes:

  “Guide him wherever he is. Help free him, liberate him, so he's free.” (03:51, Paola Ramos translating the youth team’s words)

• On U.S. gang logic:

  “For us here in America, you are a gang member.” (17:38, Paola Ramos quoting a U.S. inspector)

• On coping inside Sekot:

  “He had this dream of a soccer field…with his daughters, giving hugs…that is what kept him going.” (27:00–27:20, Paola Ramos)

• On his return:

  “After being called a terrorist…to be then received as a hero…he was very emotional. It's still overwhelming for him.” (37:32–38:12, Paola Ramos)

• His message to young players:

  “Try and find whatever you were looking for in the U.S. inside your own local teams…stick to your roots.” (43:32, Paola Ramos)

• Why he refuses to reject his tattoos:

  “He did nothing wrong…he feels no shame…He wants to kind of redefine that and get more, get another [tattoo].” (48:24–48:53, Paola Ramos)

---

Important Timestamps

• 03:27 — Introduction of Reyes’ youth team and their prayer
• 06:21–07:41 — Reyes’ arrival in the U.S., subsequent disappearance
• 07:41–08:37 — Transfer to El Salvador, conditions in “Sekot”
• 14:38–17:28 — The “gang” tattoo misidentification
• 22:09–22:13 — Family recognizing Reyes by his “goalie’s thumb”
• 24:17–24:26 — Reyes directly affirms torture inside Sekot
• 27:00–27:20 — Reyes’ mental survival strategies
• 34:14–35:20 — Night before release, signals of hope
• 37:25–38:12 — The rapturous hometown reunion
• 41:36–42:25 — Announcement of legal claims
• 42:42–44:37 — Reyes’ heartbreaking warning to other would-be migrants
• 45:02–45:57 — Reyes returns to coach his youth team
• 47:47–48:38 — Defiant embrace of his Real Madrid tattoo

---

Tone & Language

The episode is empathetic, investigative, and sharp—blending poignant storytelling with biting political critique and relatable soccer banter. Pablo and Paola’s dialogue preserves the intimacy and gravity of Reyes’ ordeal while maintaining the accessibility and humor that defines Pablo Torre Finds Out.

---

Conclusion

Through immersive storytelling and galling detail, this episode exposes the collision of politics, fandom, and human rights, putting a human face on the costs of bureaucratic injustice. While Reyes did not realize his American dream, he embodies resilience—choosing pride and hope amid trauma, and inspiring a new generation on Venezuela’s soccer fields. His journey warns of the dangers of misplaced suspicion and asks listeners to reconsider what makes a hero, both on and off the pitch.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

[Paola Ramos]

Is this what you lived? Is this torture?

[Pablo Torre]

Right after this ad.

[Commercial Announcer]

This holiday, Verizon is helping you bundle up incredible gifts and savings. You'll get the latest phone with a new line on my plan and a brand new smartwatch and tablet. No trade in needed even on our lowest price plan. That's two gifts for your family and one for you. Or two for you and one for someone else. Or three gifts for you and only you. Either way, you save big on three amazing gifts at Verizon, all on the best 5G network. Visit Verizon today. Rankings based on RootMetric Truth Score Report dated one each 2025. Your results may vary. Service plan required for watch and tablet. Additional terms apply.

[Paola Ramos]

We will answer your call as soon as we can.

[Sponsor Voice]

Are you still running your business with one creaky old phone system, missing calls, losing track of messages, and scrambling to keep up with your team? It's it's time to break up with the past and say hello to Kuo. Kuo is the number one business phone system with 4.7 stars across 3,000 reviews on G2. Quo brings all your business phone calls and texts into one app for your team. No more juggling devices or being tied to a landline. Quo's built in AI logs calls, creates summaries, automates follow ups, and can even answer and route calls so you never miss an opportunity, whether you're a solo operator or leading a growing team. Huo Quo keeps you connected and helps you deliver standout customer experiences. Join over 90,000 businesses using Quo and see why it's the one business phone system for customer satisfaction. Level up your workflow with quo. Get started free plus get 20% off your first six months at quo.com business. That's quo spelled q u o.com business and if you have existing numbers with another service, Quo will port them over for free. Quo, you can no missed calls, no missed customers.

Did you see the game last night? Of course you did, because you used Instacart to do your grocery restock. Plus you got snacks for the game, all without missing a single play. And that's on multitasking. So we're not saying that Instacart is a hack for game day, but it might be the ultimate play this football season. Enjoy zero dollar delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees apply for three orders in 14 days. Excludes restaurants. Instacart we're here.

[Pablo Torre]

It is just like Hard to look at the news and be like, is this going to end well?

Can we get a happy ending? The last time you were here, we ended with a bit of a brutal takeaway in which there was no guarantee that there was going to be a happy ending. Thank you, Palo Ramos, for being back with us.

[Paola Ramos]

Always you bring me for the sad stories.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, well, this is the key part. You are not only our translator and reporter and expert on this story, having devoted so much of your life to the question of immigration and now this administration and Latin America, you're also somebody who brought to us the last time a prayer.

[Paola Ramos]

This is the youth soccer team from Matiges. Matiges is a small town in northwest Venezuela. It's right by the. The Venezuelan and Colombian border. And these are kids that are part of the. The youth soccer team, and they're under 12 years old, and they're part of this club called Peranero, Peranero Soccer Club.

Number one. They're saying, guide him wherever he is. Help free him, liberate him. So he's free.

[Pablo Torre]

And the him in question is their coach, who's also himself a soccer player, which is why I believe you call this, very appropriately, the goalie's prayer.

[Paola Ramos]

This goalie that they're talking about is a pretty famous soccer player from Venezuela. He's from Primera Division, the first division in a pretty notorious juadar de football in Venezuela.

[Pablo Torre]

And when you say liberate him, I mean, this brings us to the title of the last episode, the Goalie who Disappeared.

[Paola Ramos]

This goalie left Venezuela a couple of years ago to leave the Nicolas Maduro regime in Venezuela. The show of force and soaring tensions have Venezuela on edge. Its government have been holding military drills as President Nicolas Maduro issued this message in English.

Not war, not war, not war. Just peace. Just peace. Just peace forever. Forever. Forever. Nicolas Maduro is seen as a dictator.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The UN Human Rights Council accused Venezuela of crimes against humanity, including torturing dissidents, sexual violence and arbitrary killings.

[Pablo Torre]

Mr. Maduro did not mention this in his speech.

[Paola Ramos]

Venezuela is a place that has been full of political turmoil. Very violent place. Over 8 million people have left the country since 2015. And this goalie is part of that trend.

And so this goalie did what many of them did, which was look at the American dream, and he went north. He went north believing that he had a chance at entering this country and at chasing that dream.

[Pablo Torre]

If you were to just look at this geopolitically from the big picture sense, that did sort of add up, like Donald Trump's nemesis. Actually, his latest nemesis in this current news cycle, the one not named Jeffrey Epstein is Nicholas Maduro.

[Paola Ramos]

That's exactly right.

[Pablo Torre]

Maduro offered everything in its in his country, all the natural resources. He even recorded a message to you in English recently offering mediation. He's offered everything.

[Paola Ramos]

You're right. He, you know why? Because he doesn't want to around with the United States. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Thank you, everybody.

[Pablo Torre]

And so the goalie in question, the coach in question who winds up disappearing, where did he get to in terms of the United States itself?

[Paola Ramos]

He makes it to the southern border, he actually crosses legally. Right. He goes through the whole process and like many of them do, through this legal process, he ends up at an ice detention center in California. So and then he ends up going through a process that has become very familiar under the Trump administration, which is they are sent to different detention centers across the country. From California, he goes to Texas. And then suddenly, March 16, 2025, no one knows where this soccer player is. He is disappeared.

Family doesn't know where he is in Venezuela. His own lawyer doesn't know where he is. He himself doesn't know where he's going.

[Pablo Torre]

His sister, just like her, the we have from her in the last episode.

[Paola Ramos]

We did, she's amazing.

[Pablo Torre]

It is heartbreaking.

[Paola Ramos]

I love you. Ji says back to his daughter, I love you too. And then he says, I don't have much time to talk.

[Pablo Torre]

Just so people understand, this is a guy with two daughters, with family members that he had to leave behind. No criminal record. In case anyone was wondering. This is a character that from a sports angle and from just a human rights angle is somebody that we wanted to really invest our time into understanding.

[Paola Ramos]

He is one of those Venezuelans that ends up in this terrorist prison center, this notorious maximum security prison in El Salvador, which I think now millions of people know this name. No Sekot Sicote was built in 2023. It's got metal bunks, no sheets, no pillows, mattresses. It's got open toilets. This goalie, this soccer player ends up there in this place that has a nickname.

[Pablo Torre]

Actually, the nickname is just to spell it out.

[Paola Ramos]

It's hell El Infierno. No one knows what happens inside that place. It's a place where they typically place criminals.

[Commercial Announcer]

They're cut out off from the outside world.

[Paola Ramos]

There are reports of just dismal, horrific conditions, torture and death.

[Commercial Announcer]

Our own U.S. state Department described these conditions as life threatening.

[Pablo Torre]

So our goalie disappears, only to wind up in hell.

[Paola Ramos]

And his name, his name is Reyes we started off with bad news, but there is good news. After all, Pablo Herze went to hell. He went to El Infierno, but he's back and we actually found him.

[Pablo Torre]

So I just need to clarify that we have been working on this episode basically since May, ever since we published that initial investigation into what really happened to a professional soccer goalie and youth soccer coach named Herse Reyes, and how Herse's Real Madrid tattoo, which we'll explain in a minute here, got him disappeared by the US Government.

But just to be extraordinarily clear, Hearsey is a completely innocent man who had been imprisoned in his home country of Venezuela for protesting their autocratic President Nicolas Maduro. And then Hearsey got imprisoned in a Salvadoran prison camp by us, the United States, you know, the country where Hearse was legally seeking asylum. But you should also know that when we started reporting this story, we had zero idea that President Trump would also be threatening war against Venezuela this month and that a bipartisan group of lawmakers would be simultaneously questioning his defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, about whether the second strike of an alleged drug boat off the coast of Venezuela this fall constituted a war crime.

But what I did presume was that FIFA, soccer's global governing body, would award its first ever quote, unquote, Peace Prize to Donald Trump last week in Washington, D.C. with various Real Madrid stars watching at the 2026 World cup draw, please welcome the very first winner of the FIFA Peace Prize, the 45th and 47th President of the United States of America, Mr. Donald J. Trump. All of which is to say that as we now assess this layer cake of sports and human rights abuses and outright political corruption, it does seem clear that Jersey Reyes is absolutely the story that we needed to finish reporting for you you this week.

And the reason we can establish that is because in July, you, Paola, and we here at Pabla Torre finds out, actually we helped break the news of a prisoner swap in our world lead. Good news. The Trump administration has successfully completed a large scale prisoner swap with Venezuela, securing the release of 10Americans that the Trump administration says were being wrongfully detained in Venezuela. This involves hundreds of prisoners, including Venezuelans deported from the US who were being held in El Salvador. How did you find out that Herse was actually part of Donald Trump's big deal, this big trade that he made such that Argoli would be among the more than 250 Venezuelan migrants freed by El Salvador?

[Paola Ramos]

We had heard rumors that there was going to be this prisoner swamp that people were sort of in the midst of flying towards Venezuela through that, Gerse's own lawyer confirmed that he was part of that. Jose's own sister, Yorgelis, had also heard rumors from the ground. But again, none of this was confirmed. And I think because everything was such a nightmare, because those three months have been completely marked by uncertainty.

His sister believed that he was part of that plane. But like she told me, she could not believe it until she saw her brother and in real flesh, standing in front of her.

[Pablo Torre]

And so this brings us to just last month when you had just gotten back from the southern border of the United States on a reporting trip, and you get on Zoom for us.

And there you are, finally seeing the face of this guy we've been talking about and reporting on.

[Paola Ramos]

We've been talking about this goalie, this soccer player, for months at this point. And Jose is back in Matigas, where he's from. He was in his home. He feels good, but you can tell that this is someone that has gone through a lot of trauma.

He told me himself that he has had to see a psychologist, that it has been difficult almost that people have. Have stopped asking him about how he's doing. But what was interesting is that he wanted to talk. It's almost like he wanted to relive this whole nightmare.

[Pablo Torre]

Right? I mean, his family.

What is their sort of approach to him? I mean, his mom, his dad, their son is back.

[Paola Ramos]

That's good and complicated at the same time. Right? It's good because they're celebrating his return.

His dad has been ill. His dad has always had a problem with his ey. With his vision. And that is one of the reasons why Herse actually leaves Venezuela months ago. Right. One of the things that drives to leave his hometown is that he wants to help his father have the medication and the money that he needs to get better. So that's what drives to leave. He obviously was never able to realize that dream. And so life is back to normal in a Venezuela that is still going through a lot of the same problems that forced him to leave in the first place.

[Pablo Torre]

And just the way that the Department of Homeland Security detained him. The reason they stated and went back and forth with us about it does involve social media and his social media, just in case people had not scrolled through it. It reminds me of like a corny dad, as a corny dad these days myself, completely.

[Paola Ramos]

I mean, if you look at his Instagram, it's literally like countless photos of him playing soccer, doing what he loves, and him being a father, like the cutest Father to two young girls.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. But what the Assistant Secretary for Homeland Security tells us is, quote, he has tattoos that are consistent with those indicating TDA gang membership.

[Paola Ramos]

As you know, TDA stands for Trin Darwa, this word that has now become Donald Trump's favorite word.

[Pablo Torre]

Trend day.

[Paola Ramos]

Aragua trend. Iraq trendy. Aragua trend.

[Pablo Torre]

Trendy. Arguing, yes, this brand that has been sold to America to justify so much of what we've been seeing, and, by the way, not seeing, just being told about. But the tattoo that the Assistant Secretary for Homeland Security was referencing, the one that got an innocent immigrant to the U.S. abducted, the one that got him sent to hell in El Salvador, he.

[Paola Ramos]

Showed it to me.

[Pablo Torre]

So he's pointing to his. His left forearm, and he's showing the illustration. The infamous illustration.

[Paola Ramos]

Exactly. He's showing the crown.

He's talking about the soccer ball. He explains once again that for him, soccer is life.

And that his favorite team is Real Madrid.

[Pablo Torre]

The dude's a sports fan. He's a fan who played professional soccer himself.

[Paola Ramos]

He is. And that's not the only tattoo that he has. He has 17 tattoos. He has other sports tattoos. He also has many tattoos about his own family. And I asked him, I said, did anyone ever interrogate you in the US and ask you, what is that tattoo?

[Pablo Torre]

Right?

[Paola Ramos]

Like, were you ever confronted? And he said, yes.

So gets to this detention center in Texas. He's there for three days, and finally, he's interrogated by this US official inspector. As he tells me, this inspector.

[Pablo Torre]

The.

[Paola Ramos]

Inspector basically tells him that one of his tattoos is related to a gang.

Awesome. Which one?

The one with the crown. This is what Elise Bector says and says.

This does not represent any gang in his country. But then the inspector says what I think has now become the familiar sentence in Trump's America.

For us here in America, you are a gang member.

And he says, you are.

And what that literally means, Pablo, is that he tells Jose that he is a danger to society.

[Pablo Torre]

I think it's just really important for us to make clear that, like, the markers of sports fandom ended up being something that stripped an innocent man of his freedom. And that should be relatable to any American. That must and should be scary on some real level. But what did Hersey then say about what actually happened next?

[Paola Ramos]

What happens after that interrogation is basically the beginning of the nightmare.

Jersey literally disappears. March 16, 2025. That day, he is placed in an airplane.

Gesir remembers that he is literally surrounded by ice, by dea, FBI. He tells me that there's sort of tear gas. Everything seems kind of violent around him. He asked officers.

Where are we going? Because again, Jose has no idea. The officers tell him, and I'm talking about the U.S. officials. They tell him that he's going to Venezuela.

Tells me that he had this instinct where he knew in that moment that actually he wasn't going to go to Venezuela. He didn't know where he was going, but he knew. He had this. This deep feeling inside him that it wasn't going to be Venezuela. Next thing he knows, he's inside this plane. The plane suddenly stops. They end up doing this layover in Honduras. The plane takes off again. Suddenly the plane lands in Salvador's international airport.

In that moment when they land, he holds onto his seatbelt, he grabs his seatbelt because he doesn't want to get off. Why Sekot? He knows that he is a naive Buquele El Salvador. He knows that Secot is not too far away from where they are, and he knows what awaits.

[Pablo Torre]

Watching the news from my vantage point, it was very clear that naive Bukele was the world's coolest dictator, as he had in his Twitter bio at one point. This guy Bukele is now Trump's closest buddy. And Bukele deliberately was like trying to go viral on the Internet. There was a series of videos, but there was just one of them that I remember because of its like action movie style soundtrack.

I mean, you're seeing again, these, these uniformed military officers, vaguely police, also soldiers, just escorting men with their heads down in chains off of these airplanes.

[Paola Ramos]

What happens to Chris after they land is literally a version of that video. The moment he lands, literally, the guards tell him.

Which literally means, welcome to El Salvador, you son of a Harris family.

[Pablo Torre]

I want to always like swing the camera back to them because they didn't know where he was at all. They also saw this footage on the news, the same footage released by Bukele and the Salvadoran government. What you're getting is this footage of these guys being shaved. They're on their hands and knees. They're all now dressed identically, these white T shirts. Their hands are behind their head. And herse's family is just pouring over this footage.

[Paola Ramos]

One of the ways in which his family is able to confirm that he was in fact part of that group of Venezuelans that were abducted and disappeared and now taken to Segod is because they zoom into some of those images that naive Bukele is releasing. They first kind of see this guy that has a Michael Jordan tattoo.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, the jumpman Logo, the Air Jordan logo that is all over, you know, all the sneakers you see in the NBA, but also one PowerPoint slide released by the Texas Governor's office, which identifies, yes, the Air Jordan logo itself as yet another marker of gang affiliation.

[Paola Ramos]

But then they look behind him and they see that there's this guy that also has his head shaved, but they see that the thumb looks like thumb. Right. And his sister and his mom know that, I guess, like is.

[Pablo Torre]

Is a certain way, a goalie's thumb is a particular digit.

[Paola Ramos]

And that is what makes them realize that their son, their brother, their loved one is in fact, inside a Sekkot.

[Pablo Torre]

Which ends up being something, by the way, that her say to us in this interview, you did establishes. Yes, that that is, in fact, definitely me.

[Paola Ramos]

And when I asked him to confirm that, he even got a little bit emotional. I think, again, going. Going back to that time and. And seeing the way that he was treated, kneeling down in that way, you could tell that it was hard for him to relive that moment.

[Pablo Torre]

What happens after that specific moment.

[Paola Ramos]

So they get there, they shave their heads, and everyone is sort of sent to their cells. But what I think Gerse is always reminding me is that the guards around him kept telling him.

Which literally means welcome to hell on Earth. And so I think there was always this understanding that they were never going to leave that place. Right. That they were to be treated like terrorists that were going to die.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Once you remember that so many of these guys are not criminals at all. They're like soccer coaches and hairdressers and. And normal people, people that we should relate to as innocent civilians, some of whom, by the way, their crime allegedly was protest, protesting against an authoritarian government, the Maduro regime in Venezuela. It just makes me wonder, like, what does that actually sound like? What does that scene as they're being told actually you're going to be treated like you're a terrorist.

[Paola Ramos]

Now, what he told me is that he remembers the sound of people yelling around him.

Screaming, even some people fainting. I think it was very evident as he was speaking that he saw a lot of things, Right. A lot of dark things, people being beat up. He said that at least once or twice a week, and there was a lot of violence. He, too, was hit by several officials and several of the guards inside there. And I asked him, I'm point blank.

Is this what you lived? Is this torture?

And he said, yes.

That it was this physical, physical violence, but it was also psychological violence.

[Pablo Torre]

And this is something that is backed up by Reporting from Human Rights Watch, which points out that these men from Venezuela, quote, were subjected to constant beatings.

[Paola Ramos]

I think beyond that. Right. I think they tried to make their lives as difficult as possible in kind of the weirdest ways.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Paola Ramos]

So one of the things that he kept talking about was that they wouldn't let them shower until 4:30 in the morning.

They could only take showers at 4:30 in the morning. If it was anytime before that, the guards would beat them.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. I mean, this is seemingly designed to emotionally and physically, psychologically just destroy an innocent person.

[Paola Ramos]

Jose even ended up in what was known as La Isla, the island, which was the solitary confinement. And so he even had an experience inside that place himself. He was stuck for about six hours. Obviously he didn't talk to anyone. It was small. And there are reports of other detainees that ended up in similar situations. And reports have even said that some people were sexually assaulted. I asked her say if he knew anything about them.

He said no. But he did tell me though, and I thought this was interesting that no one knew, no one knows what happened inside that Islam. No, that, that solitary confinement I'm imagining.

[Pablo Torre]

Just like having kids. He has, he has daughters. Again, he has people that are so worried. And based on what he is describing, which again is validated separately with the experiences of others by Human Rights Watch, those loved ones were right to be deeply disturbed and horrified and, and, and constantly checking in, like, how can we get him out? And meanwhile hearse in his head, where does he turn to as all of that is happening?

[Paola Ramos]

He thinks about his daughters, but then he also thinks about soccer. And he told me that he had this dream.

He had this dream of a soccer field and where he saw himself and he once again re envisioned himself playing. Again, he thinks about this soccer field, knowing he has these visions of himself in the soccer field, but also with his daughters, giving hugs to his daughters.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. And the thing that I'm imagining, as I hear Harris say that, is I'm imagining those kids in that video that we started with. The kids who were praying.

While they are sending that image out into the universe, their coach is kind of doing the same thing.

[Paola Ramos]

But then there's one thing that, that really, really I think gets him going, and that is that at some point along the journey inside of that, that hell, someone tells Khirsi that the world is watching.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Paola Ramos]

And someone tells him that there was someone that looked like his sister Yis that kept advocating for from the outside.

So even when he explains it, you can tell how excited he was when so Many of the detainees that were locked up that had absolutely no contact with the outside world suddenly understand that the entire world world is talking about these Venezuelans detainees inside Naibuot. And then it's very evident. Jes says that that gave him enough energy to understand that one day he could leave that prison. That was the hope he needed to, to hold on to something.

[Pablo Torre]

If you could stop somebody from breaking in before they got inside, why wouldn't you? Most old school systems go off after someone's already in your place and that is obviously too late. Simplisafe though, is different. It's proactive with a double layer of defense that stops crime before it starts. First, AI powered cameras spot potential threats outside and then live agents step in talking to the person through the camera, letting them know they're on video and that police will be dispatched if they don't leave. They can even trigger a loud siren or spotlight. That is how you stop a crime before it starts. And personally, I trust Simplisafe to protect what matters at my home. From my daughter to my wife to, you know, 3,000 or so pages of documents that I gotta keep safe. Simplisafe's double layer of protection allows me to fall asleep with no worries. Plus there are no contracts. And Simplisafe was just named the best home security of 2025 by U.S. news & World Report. So you know you're getting great protection with no commitment. It is also the best time to buy because Simplisafe's last chance Black Friday sale, 50% off any new system is at simplisafe.com Pablo that's simplisafe.com Pablo there's no safe like.

[Commercial Announcer]

Simplisafe.

This holiday, Verizon is helping you bundle up incredible gifts and savings. You'll get the latest phone with a new line on my plan and a brand new smartwatch and tablet. No trade in needed even on our lowest price plan. That's two gifts for your family and one for you or two for you and one for someone else or three gifts for you and only you. Either way, you save big on three amazing gifts at Verizon, all on the best 5G network. Visit Verizon today. Rankings based on root metric truth score report dated 1 each 2025. Your results may vary. Service plan required for watch and tablet. Additional terms.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Apply. You shouldn't have to rearrange your life to deal with hair loss. HIMS makes expert care accessible on your schedule so you can focus on feeling like yourself again. HIMS offers convenient access to a range of prescription hair loss treatments with ingredients that work, including chews, oral medications, serums and sprays. Dr. Trusted ingredients like finasteride and minoxidil can stop further hair loss and regrow hair in as little as three to six months. You shouldn't have to go out of your way to feel like yourself. Hims brings expert care straight to you with 100% online access to personal personalized treatment plans that put your goals first. No hidden fees, no surprise costs, just real personalized care on your schedule. Think of HIMS as your digital front door that gets you back to being your old self with simple 100% online access to trusted treatments for real health concerns all in one place. For simple online access to personalized and affordable care for hair loss, ED, weight loss and more, visit HIMSS.com Athletic24 that's HIMSS.com Athletic24 for your free online visit HIMSS.com Athletic24 Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. Featured products include compounded drug products which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions and important safety.

[Pablo Torre]

Information.

I always want to be mindful of when I am over dramatizing something, but I read these reports by Human Rights Watch PA and I'll just quote it in early April, the Venezuelans carried out a protest after guards beat up a fellow inmate and sprayed pepper spray in his mouth. The detainee fainted, but some detainees thought that the detainee, who they said had asthma, was dead. Which is to say that, okay, like they're.

[Paola Ramos]

Trying. There's.

[Pablo Torre]

Resistance. There's.

[Paola Ramos]

Resistance. Exactly. And I think that's that was amazing to to hear that directly from Herze, right? That even in the midst of these horrendous conditions where literally your life is at risk, like people resisted. And so Hirze talks about this hunger strike, but then he also talks about this day in which some of the detainees tried to escape. He wasn't one of them. I think he was too scared.

He remembers that day particularly because of the way that the guards reacted. Right. There was so much violence. He remembers that.

Apparently the guards started shooting at everyone with their shotguns.

And Dersy says that they shot at him as well.

But that it was a horrible day and he, he didn't know how it was going to end.

[Pablo Torre]

Up. That's in April. Protests continue into early May. And now we're in July. This is when we get word of the aforementioned Prisoner swap. But hearsay. How does hearse find out? How is he now realizing, oh, my God, I'm actually getting out of hell after four months of.

[Paola Ramos]

It. So remember when I told you that typically the guys showered at 4:30am Right? Not before, not after, but exactly at 4:30am, but there's this one night where at 2am the guards yell and they tell all the detainees, they say.

Which literally means, attention, attention, people. You guys have 20 minutes to bathe. Remembers that vividly because he knew that that had to mean something, that something was going on enough for them to be allowed to shower at 2am not only that, they get shampoo, that they get shaving cream, they get toothpaste. So again, like, has a feeling that maybe they'll get out.

[Pablo Torre]

Right? The signal is suddenly they care about how they actually might present to the outside.

[Paola Ramos]

World. Exactly. And he told me.

That'S what they kept telling themselves, which literally means, like, something is up, something's weird, something's going.

[Pablo Torre]

On. What were horrifying, haunting screams when they enter this place? There must be a different emotional sort of tenor as all of this is happening out in, you know, among the general population of this. Of this.

[Paola Ramos]

Prison. He says that that was the best shower of his life.

His 2:00am shampoo shower. Like, that was it. And when he talks about it, he gets. He gets goosebumps to this.

[Pablo Torre]

Day. And when do they officially get told that they're about to be.

[Paola Ramos]

Free? So they're not necessarily told that they'll be free, but they're placed in this bus, which means that they're leaving Sickot finally. So they put a bunch of detainees in this bus. And what Gerse tells me is that in the moment when they are finally out of this terrorist prison cell, when they're sitting down in this bus, he looks around his.

And they all make a pledge. And they tell themselves, they promise themselves that no matter what, no matter what happens, no matter where they go, no matter what the guards do, that they will not go back inside. Sekot. No. And that is. That is what they say, that they would rather lose their lives than going back to this terrorist prison cell. They're waiting on this bus. They go into El Salvador's international airport. They're waiting around. And then finally, this guard walks up to the detainees and says the words that to this day, Jersey remembers vividly.

We're going back to Venezuela. You're going.

[Pablo Torre]

Home. And so this is where the two timelines, the inside world of C. COD and the outside world that we've Been talking about that have been like sort of trying to interact with each other through these walls. They, they actually finally get to connect and they intersect because the plane lands, Harris gets on this bus and the bus finally makes its way back to his hometown, this small town in Venezuela, Mariques, where he is not this terrorist. And this anonymous guy with his head shaved behind, the dude with the Air Jordan tattoo on his neck with his own terrorist marker allegedly on his forearm. He's back to where he gets to be his actual self. This soccer coach, this soccer player. And the video that gets posted on Twitter and is where my mind kind of started melting because he was home.

I mean, this is like, you know, this is Diego.

[Paola Ramos]

Maradona. Literally.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Just like the idol is.

[Paola Ramos]

Returned. Yeah. I mean, after being called a terrorist and a gang member and to be then received as, as a.

[Pablo Torre]

Hero. This is like a Taylor Swift level. Number of phones with like their flashlights all out. He's hugging people. It's just like he's immediately welcomed back a.

[Paola Ramos]

Hero. Yeah. And what's beautiful is that he hadn't really seen that footage and those images before. And so we watched it together and he was very emotional. He was even crying. It's still overwhelming for him to understand.

To understand what maybe he couldn't really see inside that cell. Right. Which is that people love him and that people were waiting for him. And like he says, no, he is everything that Donald Trump doesn't want him to be. He is a. He is a.

[Pablo Torre]

Hero. Yeah. It's just yet another sports story, another story of an innocent man that this administration wishes people never actually.

[Sponsor Voice]

Heard.

Starting a podcast or business can feel overwhelming. Schedules, logos, and endless decisions. But the right tool can change everything for millions. That tool is Shopify.

Shopify powers 10% of all US E. Commerce, from Mattel to new brands just launching. With templates for beautiful stores, AI tools for content, and built in marketing, Shopify helps you sell smarter. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into. With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com TheAthletic go to shopify.com TheAthLetic shopify.com.

[Paola Ramos]

TheAthLETic.

Hannah Berner are those the cozy Tommy John pajamas you're.

[Hannah Berner]

Buying? Paige desorbo? They are Tommy John and yes, I'm stocking up because they make the best holiday.

[Paola Ramos]

Gifts. So.

[Hannah Berner]

Generous. Well, I'm a generous girly, especially when it comes to me. So I'm grabbing the softest sleepwear, comfiest underwear and best fitting.

[Paola Ramos]

Loungewear. So nothing for your.

[Hannah Berner]

Bestie? Of course I'm getting my dad, Tommy.

[Paola Ramos]

John. Oh, and you of course it's giving holiday gifting made.

[Hannah Berner]

Easy. Exactly. Cozy, comfy, everyone's happy. Gift everyone on your list, including yourself with Tommy John and get 30% off site wide right [e-mail].

[Sponsor Voice]

Comfort.

Are you still running your business with one creaky old phone system, missing calls, losing track of messages and scrambling to keep up with your team, it's time to break up with the past and say hello to Kuo. Kuo is the number one business phone system with 4.7 stars across 3,000 reviews on G2. Quo brings all your business phone calls and texts into one app for your team. No more juggling devices or being tied to a landline. Quo's built in AI, logs calls, creates summaries, automates follow ups, and can even answer and route calls. So you never miss an opportunity. Whether you're a solo operator or leading a growing team, Quo keeps you connected and helps you deliver standout customer experiences. Join over 90,000 businesses using Quo and see why it's the one business phone system for customer satisfaction. Level up your workflow with quo. Get started free plus get 20% off your first six [e-mail] business. That's quo spelled q u o.com business and if you have existing numbers with another service, quo will port them over for free. Quo. No missed calls, no missed.

[Pablo Torre]

Customers.

So this has been a very human on the ground story so far, but it is worth pointing out that there is a series of actual legal claims here being made about the treatment of these innocent men at seacot. And the international condemnation we're referring to the world watching has sort of culminated with this organization called the League of United Land American Citizens. And we are told that they are filing claims for damages for unlawful detention, physical and psychological, as you were explaining before under the federal Torts Claim act on behalf of the detainees. And we're also told that this case might come before the Inter American Commission on Human Rights, which is again one hell of a place to escalate to because of a soccer tattoo, because.

[Paola Ramos]

Of someone's drive to find that American.

[Pablo Torre]

Dream. Yes, hearsay. Wanted to become an American. And the question is, does he think that was a mistake? Like how does Harris say, feel about the United States, which he was only in for so long before he got disappeared to.

[Paola Ramos]

Hell? I mean I was so curious about that question. Right? Because the, the core of all these immigration stories has always been about going north. I mean, generations of immigrants like him have always, always, always left their countries to, to seek that American dream north. And I asked him, is it worth it? Would you do it again? He said, no, no, no. He said, it is not worth it. No.

And one of the things is that a lot of people in his small town, a lot of those young soccer players that we heard a lot of the kids that are praying for every day, like it is very typical for them to also leave to do what did, which is to down and seek that dream elsewhere. And Chris's advice to those kids is to stay.

To try and find whatever you, you were looking for in the US Inside your own local teams and your local towns, and to stick to your.

[Pablo Torre]

Roots. And it is worth pointing out here that Donald Trump, simultaneously, as this story is still unfolding, is bringing the World cup to the United.

[Paola Ramos]

States. Jose always wanted to go there, by the.

[Pablo Torre]

Way. I mean, of course, of course, but, but Hearsey now has his position of being, hopefully someone that people beyond our audience will listen to, especially on immigration. And he says, what about people who might want to visit the country because they're also enormous, die hard soccer fans, sadly.

[Paola Ramos]

He. He's telling people to not come.

He sees the potential of these ice raids taking place around the World Cup. He sees the potential of people that look just like him, right? These brown people with sports tattoos that can be racially profiled and can perhaps end up disappeared. And so his advice is don't come, don't go to the World Cup. I mean, how sad is.

[Pablo Torre]

That? This is not the happy ending that I think.

We were promised when we started.

[Paola Ramos]

This. I know, but I promised you a good ending.

[Pablo Torre]

Though. So how did the rest of Harris's interview with you.

[Paola Ramos]

Go? So you know how it ended? It ended because he had to go to.

[Pablo Torre]

Practice. It ended because hers, they had a heart out. Like any good podcast guest, he's like, I got to get out. By this time, he had to.

[Paola Ramos]

Leave, but he had to leave for the best reason, which is that is back doing what he loves to do, which is playing soccer, but coaching. He's back at Perijanero Football Club coaching those kids that we, we heard at the beginning of the show, this very same kids that were praying for him, that were thinking about him when he was disappeared for all those months, and the kids never forgot.

[Pablo Torre]

Him.

The video of their reunion when they're like, hanging off of him like a koala, you know, just like clinging to him, all of these hugs that we're seeing in that video on this soccer field that Hearse had been dreaming about while he was at seacot, it's not the dream he wanted. It's not the American dream that he was hoping for, but it is one that actually did ultimately come.

[Paola Ramos]

True. So now his big dream is to. To open his own goalie school. And that's literally what he's focused.

[Pablo Torre]

On.

[Paola Ramos]

Right. Like, that's all he wants to do to give those kids a new goalie.

[Pablo Torre]

School. Yeah. He wants to raise another generation of goalies, of hearses, and those kids, by the way, like, the future of Venezuela, this country that is once again in the news cycle, in the American context. How do they talk about this stuff? Like, do they know what.

[Paola Ramos]

Happened? So I don't think they do. Right. Like, I. I think the big picture, like, they don't really know what. What and who naive is. They don't really know what sekot is. But what they do know is that their favorite soccer player, this goalie, went through literally hell because of a tattoo. Because of a Real Madrid tattoo. And so Jose was telling me that that is kind of the number one question that the k. Like, did all of this really happen to you because of this sports.

[Pablo Torre]

Tattoo? It sounds like what Harris is also raising is another generation of frontrunners, of. Of Real Madrid.

[Paola Ramos]

Fans. Oh, yeah, that's not gone anywhere. I mean, it was. It was to the point that when is. Is finally back, you know, when he comes back to his hometown, they literally have a Real Madrid themed party for him as a. As a welcoming party. I mean, that's. That's how much they love Real Maria in this.

[Pablo Torre]

Town. Yeah. I mean, these are two, like, columns of young kids in their soccer uniforms, in their cleats holding, you know, these white balloons, wearing these blue jerseys. And Harris gets to. Yeah. Walk through and high five literally.

[Paola Ramos]

Everybody. I know. They love him. They love. I mean, look at the way that they're. They're looking at him with, like, so much.

[Pablo Torre]

Pride.

[Paola Ramos]

Yes. Like, they want to be like.

[Pablo Torre]

Him. Absolutely. Finally, the goalkeeper gets a soccer ball in between both hands, and he gets to hold that as the last image in that video. But I also understand, Paola, that this was not the last thing that Jersey wanted to.

[Paola Ramos]

Communicate. Oh, no, it gets even better. I told you, he. Believe it or not, he wants another Real Marie tattoo.

So one of the questions I had for him is, after everything you went through. Right. Like, after everything you lived, do you regret this Real Madrid tattoo? Like, Would you do it again?

Would you erase it? And he said that he has no regrets at all. In fact, the opposite, right? That he did nothing wrong. Wrong. That all of this happened to him simply because of his love, his genuine love for this soccer team.

And that that's nothing to be ashamed of.

He feels no shame. He knows that that tattoo does not make him a criminal. And so he wants to kind of redefine that and get more, get another.

[Pablo Torre]

Tattoo.

You know, the subtext of this entire conversation is who gets to look like one of the good ones, who gets to look like someone that America would welcome, who looks to look like an innocent man. And we have seen this administration and all of these allegedly cool dictators use sports to pervert sports itself. And so, yeah, hearsay at the end saying you. And in fact, I'm even more of a sports fan, a Real Madrid supporter, a pro athlete, a coach than you even thought is a form of genuine resistance that I just am so hardened to see him.

[Paola Ramos]

Embrace. Part of the story is that you have these administrations that thought that they could criminalize these sports tattoos and these athletes. And now the real story is that Dersa really proves that the survival instinct of an athlete, that resilience that he showed inside of Segot, that resilience that he showed, that he was able to envision hope. I imagine I'm not one, but I imagine that that is what an athlete does. Know that when it feels like you're about to lose or when it feels like the game is going to go the other way, somehow you understand you got to keep going. So we started with one Real Madrid tattoo that got him to hell. And now we end with the second Real Madrid tattoo that gets him.

[Pablo Torre]

Where? To.

[Paola Ramos]

Freedom. There you.

[Pablo Torre]

Go.

This has been Pablo Torre finds out a Meadowlark Media production. And I'll talk to you next.

[Commercial Announcer]

Time.

This holiday, Verizon is helping you bundle up incredible gifts and savings. You'll get the latest phone with a new line on my plan and a brand new smartwatch and tablet. Tablet. No trade in needed. Even on our lowest price plan. That's two gifts for your family and one for you. Or two for you and one for someone else. Or three gifts for you and only you. Either way, you save big on three amazing gifts at Verizon, all on the best 5G network. Visit Verizon today. Rankings based on rootmetric truth score report dated 1 2025. Your results may vary. Service plan required for watch and tablet. Additional terms.

[Paola Ramos]

Apply. This holiday season, millions of families will pack their bags, load up the car and head off for a family.

[Commercial Announcer]

Vacation. But not every trip is going to be somewhere fun. The American Red Cross responds to about 7,000 emergencies during the holiday season alone, from home fires to natural disasters, providing families a safe place to go when the unthinkable happens. But they can't do it without your.

[Paola Ramos]

Support. Please [e-mail] Hannah Berner are those the cozy Tommy John pajamas you're.

[Hannah Berner]

Buying? Paige desorbo they are Tommy John. And yes, I'm stocking up because they make the best holiday.

[Paola Ramos]

Gifts. So.

[Hannah Berner]

Generous. Well, I'm a generous girly, especially when it comes to me. So I'm grabbing the softest sleepwear, comfiest underwear and best fitting.

[Paola Ramos]

Loungewear. So nothing for your.

[Hannah Berner]

Bestie? Of course I'm getting my dad Tommy John. Oh, and.

[Paola Ramos]

You? Of course it's giving holiday gifting made.

[Hannah Berner]

Easy. Exactly. Cozy, comfy, everyone's happy Gift everyone on your list, including yourself with Tommy John and get 30% off site wide right now at tommyjohn.comfort.