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- [00:01]
A
Okay, so hello, it is me, Pablo, entering, invading even your ears. Because I have done something I have not done before, which is take the advice of someone who once told me that if people wish to support you financially, if they wish to support your journalism, your very strange future of journalism, meaning your newsroom, your ambitions, your desire to investigate things people don't want you to investigate, you should let them. And so I am on Substack, my newsletter@www.pablo.show. we'll put a link in the show notes of this episode. I have turned on paid subscriptions, and if you didn't know, I have a substack, guess what? It's free. And that's still there for you. And it's worth it. But the paid subscribers who support this show and us will get legitimately cool personalized benefits to come. We will make it worth your while. We are figuring out here at PTFO our post draftkings future and, you know, more good news on that front. I hope to come. But in the meantime, Pablo show is where you sign up. Click the link in the show notes. Help support us, please. Thank you, thank you, thank you on that front. And this. This episode today is a handpicked episode from deep inside the PTFO vault that we sincerely hope you enjoy. Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is.
- [01:32]
B
Oscar Schmidt. It's Rex Chapman. First you.
- [01:39]
A
Right after this ad.
- [01:47]
C
Cool. Here we go. This is take one.
- [01:52]
A
Cool. We're good. Rolling. Before we get started, I just want to say, Oscar, you have one of the greatest laughs I've ever heard.
- [01:58]
C
Oh, yeah, People always say this.
- [02:02]
A
You do. You really do. So I want to confess something. In the spirit of goodwill and friendship, because you've invited me into your home, I'm sitting with you on your couch, and I want to confess that I didn't really know your story until this past week when I started reporting the story. And I decided that I need to sit on this man's couch and talk to him in person. Cause I think it's really important for people to understand your story. So sorry and thank you for having me. I want people to know you're a legend.
- [02:40]
C
Yeah.
- [02:40]
A
Because you have these amazing. Some of the best nicknames.
- [02:43]
C
Yes.
- [02:44]
A
So in Italy, your nickname was what?
- [02:46]
C
It's Holy Hand.
- [02:48]
A
The Holy Hand.
- [02:49]
C
Holy Hand is a.
- [02:50]
A
Awesome. Excuse me. An amazing. An amazing nickname. Yeah. Yeah. Don't want to commit heresy while talking about the Holy Hand, but explain the Holy Hand as a nickname.
- [03:03]
C
That's something.
- [03:05]
A
Which hand is it? Which hand is it?
- [03:06]
C
Right.
- [03:07]
A
Yeah.
- [03:07]
C
I don't use anything here. Here I have a full of things.
- [03:10]
A
Yeah, you happen to have your giant hall of Fame ring. That's a hall of fame on your middle finger. On your left, the unholy hand.
- [03:16]
C
Hold it. This is tough.
- [03:18]
A
Yeah, this is. Holding Oscar Schmidt's hall of Fame ring is a bucket list thing for me now that I've learned exactly why you are deserving of this title. All right, so the reason I have traveled here, the reason I have come to Oscar Schmidt's vacation home in Orlando, is because I wanted to find out the parts of his story that cannot be googled. Because, yes, you can look up Oscar, and you can see that he scored the most points in Olympic history. He scored 29 a game for the Brazilian national team. He dropped a record 55 on Spain in 1988. And you can also see that Oscar Schmidt, now 66 years old, has also scored more points than. Than any basketball player ever. And he played across Brazil, across Italy, across Spain. He has the world basketball points record which has stood from the day he retired back in 2003. It is the one scoring record that LeBron James has not yet broken. But when I showed up at Oscar's house in Orlando, what he told me immediately was that Americans don't really even do this. They don't show up. They don't ask him to tell his side of his own story. And what I realized was that as a journalist who fell in love with the game, with basketball, because of the 92 Dream Team with Michael and Magic and Larry and Team USA, even Christian Lader. I was on that exact same track to be like everybody else. I watched you get inducted to the Basketball hall of Fame, of course, and the man who walks you down the.
- [05:03]
C
Aisle was Larry Bird.
- [05:05]
A
Was Larry Bird.
- [05:06]
C
My idol?
- [05:08]
A
Welcoming Oscar to the hall of Fame is Larry Bird.
- [05:12]
C
Ladies and gentlemen, Oscar Schmidt. It's too easy to have Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant as an idol. The guy flies around and do whatever he wants. It's too easy. My guy doesn't run, doesn't jump and play the best of everybody else. He's here. Larry Birdwell was my idol my whole life.
- [05:50]
A
Well, it seems like he also respects.
- [05:52]
C
You, of course, because I play almost like him. My coach in Italy said to me one time, you should be Larry Bird.
- [06:03]
A
Just be Larry Bird is some good coaches. Be Larry Bird is some good coaching advice. I was watching clips of Kobe Bryant.
- [06:10]
C
Yeah.
- [06:11]
A
And Kobe Bryant was talking about how you, Oscar, were his Favorite player.
- [06:16]
C
Kobe Bryant was different. He was my guy. Let me tell you a story.
- [06:22]
B
He was Bird before I ever had a chance to see what Bird was.
- [06:27]
C
I'm gonna take you to Oscar Schmidt, too, now. Oh, he was bad. Yeah. Oscar Schmidt. Yes. Yes. What are you at? 47 in the US in the pan Am games. His dad plays in Italy, and he.
- [06:37]
A
Grew up playing in Italy.
- [06:38]
C
He grew up watching me beat his dad every year. He said to his father that he likes me. Joe said, no, no. Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan. No, no, no, no, no. You lose to Oscar every year. I will continue with Oscar.
- [07:01]
A
So. Which is all to say that you're kind of partially responsible for Kobe Bryant becoming the player that he was.
- [07:07]
C
That's incredible.
- [07:08]
A
Isn't that. I mean, with the record that is in the news right now. Right. Is that you are the leading scorer in world basketball history. You have the most total points of any human being who has ever walked the earth. And so you're ahead of, currently, LeBron James, Kareem Dul, Jabbar, Karl Malone, Michael Jordan. So what is your record? How many total points?
- [07:29]
C
49,737. And I'm very proud of that because I never play for records. I always play to win games, to win championship, to be the best.
- [07:42]
A
What would Oscar Schmidt's NBA career have been like?
- [07:45]
C
I would be top 10, sure that I'll be top 10. Me, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, and all the rest that played in the Dream team. You're.
- [07:53]
A
You're 100% positive?
- [07:55]
C
Of course.
- [07:57]
A
So I want. I want to make the case here, though, that you're not just the greatest basketball player that never played in the NBA. I want to explore the possibility that you're actually the most underappreciated basketball player. Yes. To ever live.
- [08:15]
C
And I live with that, and I live good with that.
- [08:43]
A
So the case I'm here to make today is not simply that Oscar Schmidt is really underrated at basketball, but it is funny to me when I make these calls, as I have been all month, to longtime coaches and longtime analysts like Fran Frischilla, these guys who have been professionally scouting internationally in specific, for decades, that they can't really help themselves.
- [09:09]
D
So Oscar was ahead of his time. And if Oscar had come in his prime, we would be thinking about Oscar in a way that we think of probably Luka, Dirk or Jokic, because he was truly a great player.
- [09:21]
A
His.
- [09:22]
D
His strength was scoring the ball. Great shooter, could score from anywhere on the floor, and very confident cony guy, and he would have Been a. His personality would have been a great fit for the modern NBA. And with the three point line nowadays, he really would have been a magical player to watch. You know, the Steph Currys of the world don't realize, probably didn't know until they did their homework that there were guys like this that could really shoot it just like them.
- [09:49]
A
And that is not an exaggeration, by the way. For his career, Oscar averaged almost 45% from three. It would have been second all time in the NBA if he did it in the NBA. Number one was Steve Kerr, a guy who it is worth noting attempted less than two three pointers per game. Oscar, by contrast, attempted eight and a half threes per game. Eight and a half. Which would have been second career only to Steph Curry in the league. But the biggest difference with Oscar by far is that when he was doing all of this in late 80s, nobody else was anywhere. I mean, just look it up in 87, the Dallas Mavericks led the NBA by attempting eight threes per game. As a team, Oscar shot more than that by himself.
- [10:42]
C
That was my objective shoot more than anybody.
- [10:46]
A
Did people try to convince you not to do that?
- [10:48]
C
Yes, all my coaches shoot sometimes, Oscar. Not many. But when I do 10 from 11, eight from eight. Oh, you did good.
- [11:01]
A
When you score 49,000 points, it's like, okay, of course maybe this guy was onto something. But who gave you the idea at 6 foot 9? Because it's also that you're taller than everybody.
- [11:11]
C
It's obvious. If you have a line, let's say from here to there, it's three points, why are you gonna shoot two? Arivi Dao, your coach, our coach, he gave me chocolates when I get rebound because I was more to offense. And then he must defend something. And then he gave me this present, this chocolate. And one day I went to the hospital because during the practice I was with a bag with 55 of these chocolates. And I ate it from one day to the other, all 55. So your approach start to piss Brown.
- [12:04]
A
You're saying Oscar, your approach to eating chocolates was your approach to shooting threes. Of course, as many as you can get. You wanted, you wanted to take those.
- [12:12]
C
Yes, because I didn't like a lot defense, but I knew that I must guard somebody. And that's the reason that he gave me this chocolate. Get some rebound, Oscar, come on.
- [12:30]
A
With all of this understood, I want to get to the enormous decision that ensured why I growing up and why lots of Americans in my generation and younger and older too. Why we don't know your story, which is you chose not to play in the NBA for the next three hours.
- [12:49]
E
The USA Cable Network wishes you to.
- [12:51]
A
Join us for the 1984 NBA Draft.
- [12:55]
E
We will be.
- [12:56]
A
I want to ask you about the fact that you get drafted by the nets. This is 40 years ago now, 1984, that's Michael Jordan, that's Akeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley. Those are the guys who get drafted in the top five picks, of course. And so sixth round, you get taken 131st overall. And so you're feeling. Your first reaction to being the 131st pick was what?
- [13:20]
C
Come on, man, if you want me, get me the first round. I could say to him a lot of bad words, but I keep it up and I go there.
- [13:33]
A
So you go to the Nets?
- [13:36]
C
I go to the Nets. I go to the camp of Nets.
- [13:38]
A
You go to America.
- [13:39]
C
And I ask them, who is the first choice? Oh, Jeff Turner. Jeff Turner play in Italy. And I kick his butt every year. And then I go there and said to the Coach, coach, here's one point a minute. If you give me 20 minutes, I give you 20 points. We play five games against the Hokies of the other teams. They gave me 25 minutes. I gave him 25 points. They become crazy about me.
- [14:09]
A
You played five of training camp games.
- [14:11]
C
Yes.
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A
And you just shot a.
- [14:14]
C
Where is Jeff Turner? Oh, he cannot come. He was first choice. First choice. He should be here showing us that he was the first choice. And I said no to the contract.
- [14:25]
A
Well, I want to explain how we get to that point, because there's this rule, and it's a FIBA rule, and it says NBA players specifically are not allowed to play in the Olympics. Represent their country on the national team. It was an NBA specific rule.
- [14:42]
C
If you play just one game in NBA on that time, you could not play never more with your national team.
- [14:50]
A
Right.
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C
And for me, national team was first, one second the teams. But national team, you represent a country. So for me was the best thing.
- [15:04]
A
How would you describe at the time how the NBA viewed international players?
- [15:10]
C
They don't view international.
- [15:12]
A
Did it feel like disrespect?
- [15:14]
C
Of course.
- [15:15]
A
And so for you, the decision not to sign with the Nets, which was a decision to not go to the NBA, how difficult was that decision in the end?
- [15:24]
C
Easy. They offered me the contract and I don't want it. I just want to know if I am capable. And today I know that I am capable to play in NBA.
- [15:34]
A
So you just went to training camp to prove that if you did decide to do it, you could do it.
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C
Why six rounds? Come on, man. I know how to play basketball.
- [15:42]
A
And so you go back to Italy, right? You're playing in Italy, you're scoring a million points in Italy. And the next year, in 1985, you encounter one of the guys that you would have played against in the NBA had you decided to go. And it's an exhibition game. I wanted to know about the game you played against Michael Jordan.
- [16:03]
C
Oh, yes.
- [16:04]
A
And I have a video, because I want you to just rewatch this video that I have. What happens is Michael Jordan goes up, he dunks, and the entire backboard shatters and the glass is covering your teammates.
- [16:22]
C
Two teammates.
- [16:23]
A
And where are you on the court as a student?
- [16:24]
C
I was not close to there.
- [16:26]
A
So you didn't get hit by the glass?
- [16:28]
C
I didn't get hit, but I saw the hand of Tato Lopez. I saw the tendon going back and forth.
- [16:35]
A
Oh, my God.
- [16:35]
C
And Pietro Genelari has a cut here.
- [16:38]
A
Like this on his side, on his right side.
- [16:41]
C
So he took two players of our team, right? I said to him, you are not from the earth. And he respond, you too. And this phrase that he gave it to me, I bring with me my whole life. If the best player, as you all guys say, that Michael Jordan is the best player, said that to me. Come on, right? He knew me.
- [17:12]
A
So the biggest, though, the biggest, most shattering game that you played in against future NBA stars, Now, this was two years after that game in Italy. It's 1987, it's in the United States, it's Indianapolis, Indiana, and it's the Pan Am Games. And so I want to explain for people, Oscar, the Pan Am Games were a huge deal.
- [17:34]
E
From the dawn of civilization in the Americas, the spirit of human achievement has inspired feats of monumental proportions. Like the ancient temples they built, the Incas, Aztecs and Mayas embodied strength, discipline and vision. And out of the ruins of this storied past lives a spirit that continues today in the Pan American Games.
- [17:55]
A
It's basically the continental Olympics. It's north and South America, Central America, the Caribbean. There's a parade. The whole thing is broadcast on cbs. It's enormous.
- [18:05]
E
Indianapolis, the capital of Indiana, and center stage for the 10th Pan American Games.
- [18:12]
A
And this game, the gold medal game, was held at an actual NBA arena. Of course, it was Market Square Arena. It's where the Pacers played it. Sold out.
- [18:21]
C
Yeah.
- [18:22]
A
They'd won 34 straight games. They had, Oscar.
- [18:25]
C
They never lose.
- [18:26]
A
They never lost in the United States. Ever. And so what is your expectation? If you're being honest?
- [18:33]
C
Yes.
- [18:34]
A
Entering this game as you're with the.
- [18:36]
C
Brazilian, my expectation was lose by 50.
- [18:41]
A
So this team has David Robinson, Danny Manning, Rex Chapman, Purvis, Ellison, all these NBA guys, the biggest stars in college. Right. And do you think they took you seriously?
- [18:54]
C
They didn't took us serious.
- [19:00]
A
Nobody in America seemed to take them seriously. I mean, the head coach of Team usa, Denny Crum, didn't even remember the leading scorer of Brazil's name, which happened to rhyme with Bhaskar Mitt. And at the opening ceremonies, the CBS broadcast couldn't even name a single opponent, a single country they were worried about.
- [19:20]
E
In your mind, is there any team.
- [19:22]
A
That can pose a threat to the.
- [19:23]
E
U.S. well, I've only seen a couple practice, but in all reality, Vern, this is a very, very strong team. As a matter of fact, I think the contingency that we have here is as strong as the club we had that won the Pan Am gold the last time and the Olympic Games in la. It's a very strong team.
- [19:37]
A
But Oscar and Brazil made the gold medal game and immediately proved pretty much everybody right by going down by almost 30 around this point. The entire American press corps, it turns out, made a pretty memorable decision, which Mike Wilbon, who was there with the Washington Post, confessed to me.
- [19:58]
F
The writers, the sports writers covering the game for the biggest newspapers and smallest ones across the United States of America said, that's it. We've been here 23 days or whatever it is. We're packing up. And people packed up and they left press row, they left. And we went back in the back of the Market Square press room and we talked about the games, about what had happened, about track and field and boxing and basketball. And then somebody rushed into the press room and said, hey, it's down to nine.
- [20:33]
E
And this game has tightened up considerably. This is the gold medal game in men's basketball. Dick Stockton and Billy Packer. At one time, the USA had a 20 point lead, but Brazil cut it to four moments ago before Willie Anderson stretched it to six. A 134 run by Brazil has tightened this game up, led by the great Oscar Schmidt. And a physical affair at that. Billy. Well, the game has gotten.
- [20:58]
A
So I want to understand what changed in this game because you guys are down 26. And then suddenly the comeback starts.
- [21:06]
C
One day I was talking with Senna.
- [21:08]
A
Sena, the great F1 Brazilian legend, and.
- [21:13]
C
He told me, I talk to God, Oscar. I talk to God too. Talk to God is something that's almost perfect.
- [21:28]
E
Right now, what we have are one club just as completely an emotional high. Schmidt with three more and it's now a one point game. United States is going to have to.
- [21:38]
C
Go back to a lineup as something extreme. You are in a way that you see the game in slow motion, but you are not in slow motion.
- [21:48]
E
With a little more than halfway through, Schmidt gives Brazil the lead with a three pointer. He has 28 points. 17 this half. Oscar is putting on more of a show here, not only with his shooting, but the emotion. He's going to drain himself here just with his celebrations after the shots.
- [22:08]
C
It's unbelievable. And I had this sensation like almost 30 times.
- [22:16]
E
Boy, Oscar has got no conscience with his eight corner. I don't know anybody I've ever seen that loves to score more than he does.
- [22:23]
C
All the shots I did, I remember everyone.
- [22:26]
A
You had at least six in the second half. Six threes in the second half.
- [22:29]
C
A half six.
- [22:30]
A
But there are some. I was watching the video, I thought it was seven. I think it was. Maybe it was all seven in a second.
- [22:35]
E
Coming back right now, Marcel Sosa. Schmidt hits a three. That's seven. Three point shots.
- [22:41]
A
Do my accounting. But I was watching the video and you're, you're pulling up and no one's there to rebound it.
- [22:50]
C
You're being guarded, of course, because I score like that. Oh, my gosh. Is saying like this. Did you see? No rebound everything. Yeah, I saw.
- [22:59]
A
Yeah. No one was down there.
- [23:00]
C
No one there to pick up even without anybody at rebound.
- [23:07]
A
When you're in the second half of the 87 gold medal game, do you remember any particular moment, a favorite shot that you had that you took in the second half?
- [23:17]
C
There was one that I miss. Israel, get the rebound. That was his mission. And call me Oscar.
- [23:26]
A
Come on.
- [23:26]
C
Again.
- [23:27]
E
Three point attempt again by Smith. Not that time, but the rebound by Andrade. Smith again. Three pointer. Boom.
- [23:35]
C
And I score. There is this shot in the videotape.
- [23:40]
A
When you watch the video, what becomes clear is that few people in the history of basketball have ever had a more green light to shoot.
- [23:49]
C
Oh, no.
- [23:50]
A
Do you remember one of the things you said after or before making a shot?
- [23:56]
C
No, I. I just screamed.
- [23:59]
E
With the United States. Oscar with two more. And now it's getting real serious for the United States, Billy. In their efforts to retain the gold medal, these players have to be more shocked than we are.
- [24:10]
A
When you watch the tape, it is remarkable. You hit a shot and you scream. Yes. Running the other way, of course.
- [24:18]
C
They must know who they are playing against, huh? I Was that guy that. No, don't come to New Jersey. That's because of national team. And I was playing with my national team.
- [24:31]
A
Wilbon also told me that you guys were. You were, like, slapping yourself in the face.
- [24:36]
C
Yes.
- [24:37]
F
Oscar Schmidt keeps hitting shots. He's hitting shots and he's slapping his own face on the way back down the court. Backpedaling.
- [24:47]
C
I'm awake. I'm weak. Come on, give him the ball.
- [24:50]
A
You're like, all right. I need. I'm Oscar Schmidt. You're reminding yourself. He said he had never seen that before in his life.
- [24:56]
C
Nobody asked me that. Nobody, even in Brazil, that people that saw the game. Everybody saw that game.
- [25:06]
A
You're telling me it took you again, 1987, 2024. Took you almost 40 years for someone to ask you, why were you slapping yourself in the face during the most pivotal game perhaps international basketball history?
- [25:20]
C
I thought I was sleepy. Come on, man. I'm awake.
- [25:26]
E
Brazil wins the goal. Shocking game.
- [25:33]
A
The scene of when the buzzer sounds and the final score again. You finished with 46 points. You scored 35 in the second half. It's one of the greatest comebacks. The most shocking things that's happened in international basketball history. Brazil beats Team USA 120 to 115. And I want to just play that final scene from the game for you because I want you to tell me what you were feeling.
- [26:02]
C
So. Marcel. I dry in the floor crying. Because for me was not possible. What happened here, right?
- [26:11]
A
You fall on the floor, you're crying.
- [26:13]
C
Crying because when you win something that you're not supposed to win, most of the times you cry if you are emotional. I was very emotional. And all our players are crying.
- [26:28]
A
Oh, you guys are all falling to the floor. You're on your back, you're yelling. What are you yelling? You're saying something.
- [26:33]
C
Yelling, we won't. We won game in Portuguese.
- [26:37]
A
Which is what.
- [26:38]
C
Which was.
- [26:45]
A
So what did you prove?
- [26:46]
C
And then. Yeah, and they knocked the door of our locker room and said to us, we don't have our. Your anthem after the game.
- [26:54]
A
The Brazilian national anthem.
- [26:56]
C
We go from here to the airport. No, no, please don't do that. I will try to. To. To have your anthem. They take like 40 minutes to have the anthem ready. And then we go. Was just the beginning of the anthem. And we start to sing without the anthem. That's much more emotional.
- [27:31]
A
What do you think you proved that day? What did Brazil prove?
- [27:34]
C
That Brazil proved that basketball is universal, not just in America. That's the proof that we made in.
- [27:42]
A
That game, this is what Mike Wilbon wrote for the Washington Post. He said this quote, the Americans sat on the bench, stunned, their faces looking like they'd seen the end of the world.
- [27:54]
C
I have a picture of that. And I said, and I'll show you this picture.
- [28:01]
A
Yeah.
- [28:02]
C
Looks like they died. And there was more. 10 minutes to play.
- [28:07]
A
Right.
- [28:08]
C
Thank you.
- [28:12]
A
I do like how you just have this photo that you can look at here. Yeah. That looks like people have seen the end of the world.
- [28:26]
C
Which means look at the faces. They're gonna lose.
- [28:31]
A
I did want to show you something. A video that I brought that you have not seen before.
- [28:35]
C
Yeah.
- [28:35]
A
Because somebody that I know is one of the guys on that team, on Team usa that you beat. And this is a message for you from Rex Chapman.
- [28:47]
C
Wow.
- [28:47]
A
Okay, you can play it. Just hit. There you go.
- [28:52]
B
Oscar Schmidt. It's Rex Chapman. First you and I love you. It's been a long time, man. We were in command of that ball game, if you remember, at halftime. And Oscar Schmidt came out of halftime and put the Brazilian team on your back. You got so hot, you could kick them in. And there was nothing that we could do. We lose the game. I've never been in a locker room more. Disappointed, sad, crying. You did a lot of that. Oscar, I love you, buddy. Be proud. What a life. What a career. See you.
- [29:35]
C
Beautiful.
- [29:36]
A
He did say you at the start.
- [29:38]
C
But I love the you because it's with somebody. Say to somebody who beat you. You nice, man. Nice. Real nice.
- [30:09]
A
In many ways. Ways that I in no way appreciated growing up as a kid in the 90s. The most important part of Oscar's story is what happened next. Because after the US Lost to Oscar and Brazil, this soccer country in America, this unprecedented humiliation on home soil, Team USA then lost to our Vita Sabotis. And the Soviet Union the next year in Korea in the 88 Olympics.
- [30:33]
C
And.
- [30:33]
A
And all of this led to a legislative change in 1989 that changed everything forever. Because at long last, FIBA decided to lift its ban on NBA players from international competitions. It was the same ban that had made Oscar Schmidt stay abroad in the first place. It was a rule that a panicked America now demanded. The Dream Team. The finest collection of basketball players ever assembled. Superstars and superheroes playing together on one.
- [31:10]
B
Team for one reason and one reason only.
- [31:15]
E
Payback.
- [31:16]
C
We talk about when we reunite the national team. We talk about the Dream Team.
- [31:21]
A
What do you say?
- [31:22]
C
It's our fault if we didn't won that game. There is no Dream Team.
- [31:31]
A
Right?
- [31:32]
C
Yeah. Simple like this and I know this. You can say whatever you want. I know this. I know that something unbelievable. The Dream Team is playing because our team, Brazilian basketball team.
- [31:54]
A
This is the embarrassing part for me, Oscar. So I grew up, I was six years old when it was the 92 Olympics in Barcelona, and I fell in love with the NBA. Because of the Dream Team.
- [32:05]
C
Yes.
- [32:06]
A
What I did not realize until reporting your story is how personally responsible you were for the formation of the Dream Team. Of course, because you beat Team usa, that leads to the rule being lifted, which leads to Larry Bird, to the Barcelona Olympics. I mean, it gets to the basketball that became the global game.
- [32:31]
C
Of course.
- [32:31]
A
And so all around the world, because of the Dream Team, a young pal.
- [32:36]
C
Who is responsible for the Dream Team.
- [32:38]
A
So a young Pau Gasol, a young Dirk Nowitzki, a young Tony Parker, a young Luka Doncic, Nikola Jokic, Joel Embiid, Giannis Antetokounmpo. You're the first domino that results in the Dream Team exporting basketball, which leads to all of the great international players who did the thing that you did not do, which is they went to the NBA. And so the guy who never set foot in the NBA became responsible for all of the international players who would. And that's a incredible thing.
- [33:14]
C
They make the Dr. Team for what?
- [33:17]
A
To get revenge on you, on me.
- [33:20]
C
On Thabonis, on all the big players that the world had.
- [33:24]
A
The international guys.
- [33:25]
C
Yes.
- [33:26]
A
How dare they come and beat the Americans at their own game. The fact that you're the reason is one of the great, just like revelations for me as a fan. Did you ever consider when they lifted the rule, when FIBA lifted the rule that said you could play in the NBA and play in the national team? Did you ever consider going to the NBA at that point?
- [33:46]
C
Yeah, but I was a little old. I don't play like I did play because I was tough. I was very tough and I played better than many players in America. So I could play in NBA for sure. Because I had this instinct, the killer instinct, that when you shoot the ball, you know that the ball goes in and few players have this instinct. And I had it. I used it in Italy, I used it in Spain, and I was very happy. NBA wouldn't change my game, wouldn't change my personality, nothing.
- [34:27]
A
So.
- [34:27]
C
And I, when I was invited, I. I think about come, but I did not play like I play years before.
- [34:37]
A
So when the 92 Olympics happen and it's Barcelona.
- [34:40]
C
Yes.
- [34:41]
A
And it's Magic and Michael and Larry and Charles and all those guys, everyone Was there. They get the revenge on you. They do.
- [34:48]
C
I know, but was not the revenge because they were. All the best basketball players in the world are playing with us. We don't have that team that. That could beat the Dream Team. We have a good team that could beat that college team, but not the Dream Team from NBA. Michael Jordan. Everyone was there.
- [35:11]
A
No, it's, it's. I mean, this is why I fell in love with the game.
- [35:13]
C
Yeah.
- [35:14]
A
It was because I was watching these guys blow. I mean, look, Brazil, you guys lost this 127 to 83. You had 24 points in 30 minutes. I was growing up in the United States, son of immigrants from the Philippines who didn't really know sports.
- [35:28]
C
I play in Philippines, really have a good basketball.
- [35:31]
A
We love basketball.
- [35:32]
C
My God, the tournament that Philippines does are incredible.
- [35:37]
A
Yeah, yeah. The fans are everybody.
- [35:41]
C
I love basketball. Philippines.
- [35:43]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I say all of that to just say that the game got exported in the process of them destroying everybody in the Olympics, including you.
- [35:55]
C
We didn't think about this at the moment, but after going the days, the months, the years, we think about it.
- [36:05]
A
And so here's the other domino in this procession. The only reason you were able to play in the Pan AM Games in 1987 was because you didn't go to the Nets and you didn't go to the NBA 40 years ago.
- [36:23]
C
That's what I think at the time.
- [36:25]
A
You saw this all coming. You said to yourself, if I, Oscar Schmidt, go to the nets as a 6th round pick, the Dream Team in 1992 will never be formal. Basketball will never be the same again.
- [36:37]
C
I was not that profound. But when we won that game, you.
- [36:44]
A
Said, I'm so glad that I was able to do this. We never went over there.
- [36:49]
C
That was an unbelievable thing that happens in basketball.
- [36:52]
A
Your decision in 84 to not go to the NBA is the first domino that sets into motion everything we've been talking about.
- [37:02]
C
You discover everything.
- [37:04]
A
I try to find out some stuff.
- [37:08]
C
You can say. You're a good reporter.
- [37:10]
A
Oscar Schmidt. Put that on the movie poster. Put it on the podcast poster. Pablo Torre finds out. I want to ask you about just the present tense now, because you watch basketball, you alluded to this, but when you were playing basketball again, nobody was playing like you in the NBA. And so when you watch the NBA Today in 2024, Oscar, what do you see?
- [37:30]
C
I look for Luka Dontic. I look for Jokic. I look for all the foreign players, much more than American players, because they are better than American Players, they are much better. If you look Jokic, Jogan playing, this guy's gonna, gonna win the third time.
- [37:50]
A
The best player, another guy who can't really jump, but can shoot and pass.
- [37:55]
C
But can shoot, can do anything he want. He is a guy that I don't know because he already did a few games that he didn't make triple double. But was the guy to make triple double on median?
- [38:11]
A
Yes, yes. Averaging a triple double.
- [38:14]
C
He's unbelievable. One day I saw him, was shooting, passed the ball behind him. That's not super relevant to an NBA game.
- [38:22]
E
But how about Jokic with an incredible pass?
- [38:26]
A
Yeah, I saw that one. I saw that play. But even. But what's crazy is that even the Americans play like you. That's the thing.
- [38:35]
C
If you don't shoot from trees, you don't win anymore.
- [38:37]
A
So I'm watching Steph Curry, I'm watching Damian Lillard. Everybody plays like Oscar Schmidt.
- [38:42]
C
He's playing his friend Thompson.
- [38:45]
A
Oh, Klay Thompson.
- [38:46]
C
Wow. He's unbelievable. He's the guy that I admire more.
- [38:49]
A
Really? Clay, you like clay the most?
- [38:52]
C
Oh, of course. He shot. It's always the same. If he shoots from two, it's the same as if he shoots from three. Same shot.
- [39:02]
A
You know what? Now that you mention it, it reminds me of watching you because the mechanics are always, always.
- [39:08]
C
He's faking the guy.
- [39:11]
A
Yeah. Next shot will be right and even the shot being overhead.
- [39:16]
C
Yes. That's why I like him very much.
- [39:19]
A
Do you feel like the players in the NBA know your story?
- [39:25]
C
Many knows, but many don't know. And I feel this in the air.
- [39:31]
A
What does it feel like to you?
- [39:32]
C
I feel like you don't know me. Okay, no problem. Go, go with your team. I don't get upset about this, but I. I see.
- [39:46]
A
Yeah. Well, I think there's a key thing which even, even this story, right. I'm trying to tell it to people and I think that the first impression that they have is, but this guy never played in the NBA.
- [39:57]
C
Never played. I never played in the NBA because I didn't want it.
- [40:01]
A
And so describe just that part of this story. The idea that your entire life you've had to sort of remind people that even though you never played in the NBA, you still have a story worth hearing.
- [40:15]
C
I will say, what Camera here.
- [40:19]
A
Okay, let's pick that one right in the middle.
- [40:21]
C
Okay. I never play in NBA because I didn't want to play in NBA because New Jersey Nets drafted me at 6 round choice 131. That's why I never play in the NBA. Because I get offended with that. You, you too.
- [41:02]
A
The reason you're back in the news lately though is because you have this record, the all time points record, which again is 49,000 and how many?
- [41:10]
C
730.
- [41:11]
A
737. So LeBron James is about to pass you. It's just a matter of time. Yes, he's on pace to do it. He may be doing it as we're talking right now. I don't know. Are you watching LeBron?
- [41:25]
C
I love the way he plays because he's a good basketball player. He shoots from three. Every dunk he does. Looks like you're seeing a concourse of Duncan team. So he make assist. He is a perfect player.
- [41:45]
A
Do you care about your record being broken?
- [41:47]
C
No. Because as you do in this every journalist that I talk, people ask me, do you care about LeBron James?
- [41:56]
A
No.
- [41:58]
C
Records are made to be broken. So broke as fast as he wants.
- [42:08]
A
You're different players, but you also have had similar goals, it seems like. Because not just being the all time leading scorer in the history of basketball on planet Earth, but you guys have also. I mean, you retired at what age?
- [42:19]
C
45. I was persistent.
- [42:22]
A
I've noticed. I've noticed this about you, Oscar, on this couch. Your persistence is a definite quality. You have.
- [42:29]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [42:29]
A
Do you have any advice for LeBron James as he tries to be Keep.
- [42:32]
C
Playing the way you were playing. You broke my record. Soon you listen, LeBron go like this, you'll be the first one in the world.
- [42:46]
A
2017, you're playing the celebrity All Star Game in New Orleans. I have never seen this before until I saw it. An actual hall of Famer.
- [42:55]
C
Yes.
- [42:56]
A
Playing next to like Ansel Elgort.
- [42:58]
C
Come on.
- [42:59]
A
Did you know any of your teammates?
- [43:00]
C
I didn't know anybody. But I could play the whole game because I practice one month every day to go to that game.
- [43:08]
A
And so what is your review of your performance in the 2017 Celebrity All Star performance?
- [43:13]
C
If I play the whole game, I will be the best of the game because I score. And the basketball game, first thing, you must score. Basketball is not made for good defensers. It's made for good offensive plays.
- [43:29]
A
And so you took two shots.
- [43:31]
C
Two shots. Come on. How will be the best of the game with two shots?
- [43:34]
A
You were 2 for 2.
- [43:44]
C
If I shot 10 would be 10 for 10.
- [43:46]
A
So now you're 66.
- [43:49]
C
66, is that right? Yes.
- [43:51]
A
Do you still play?
- [43:52]
C
No, no, because I get fat a little bit. So I won't do the same thing.
- [44:00]
A
That I Did you look great, Oscar? You look great.
- [44:02]
C
No, but I don't play like I play before.
- [44:05]
A
You don't even shoot anymore?
- [44:06]
C
No, nothing. I play soccer. I don't know if you play. If you want to play in my team. I don't know. I might see you playing before.
- [44:15]
A
You're scouting now?
- [44:16]
C
Yes.
- [44:17]
A
Here's. Okay, here's my scouting report. I don't play defense.
- [44:20]
C
Don't play defense in soccer.
- [44:22]
A
Yeah.
- [44:22]
C
Okay, you're forgiven because I don't play defense too. But if the guy cross the ball, boom, I. My head is like my third leg.
- [44:38]
A
Something that I noticed, I was looking through. You have a YouTube channel also, and I want to point this out. You spend time in America. We're here in Orlando. You spend some time here and talking to you and watching some of the videos you've been making in your free time. You seem incredibly American now.
- [44:54]
C
Yes.
- [44:55]
A
You sometimes are wearing NFL jerseys. You're giving like, opinions takes about the NFL.
- [45:01]
C
Well, it's an opinion. I watch NFL a lot. Wow. Wow. Ravens for Campion's NFL Cabana de Gayon Super Bowl.
- [45:19]
A
Do you feel like an American now?
- [45:21]
C
Yes, Much more than most Americans. Because First Thinkers here in Orlando has Disney and a fan of Disney.
- [45:34]
A
Something that I. That I've realized, something I found out today is that you love Disney.
- [45:39]
C
I love Disney. And the best thing, you go to Epcot center, sit on a bench and watch the people growing there, growing. The best sneakers that I see in the world is people don't play, but have the best sneaker.
- [45:54]
A
This is the most American ever, by the way. You wear an NFL jersey and you give takes into your computer camera. You go to Disney World and you sit at Epcot center and you judge all of the people wandering around. It's a small.
- [46:06]
C
I'm a good judger.
- [46:10]
A
One last question is, what is your greatest joy from your career?
- [46:15]
C
Greatest joy was beat the Americans at the Pan Am games. That opened the doors for the. The pros playing every time. And I was a pro and I could not play for NBA. I could not play in my national team. Come on, man.
- [46:33]
A
If that rule did not exist, what would Oscar Schmidt's NBA career have been like?
- [46:38]
C
I would be top 10, sure that I'll be top 10. Me, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and all the rest that play in the Dream Team. If that guy, big guy. What's the name of that big guy?
- [46:50]
A
You'll have to be a little more specific.
- [46:51]
C
Oscar Akeliki Jogunu Dream Team.
- [46:54]
A
No, no, no, no, no. Laitner Leitner if he plays in the.
- [46:58]
C
Dream Team, I could play the Dream Team, too. Come on. He goes there to pass the ball. Shoot something. Come on.
- [47:04]
A
MAN ON Christian Laettner is another deeply American activity.
- [47:08]
C
Yes, of course.
- [47:12]
A
Oscar Schmidt. The reason it turns out that I fell in love with basketball.
- [47:17]
C
Yeah.
- [47:18]
A
Thank you for your time. Thank you for this couch.
- [47:20]
C
The reason. Oh, my man. Thank you so much, man.
- [47:35]
A
This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production, and I'll talk to you next time.