The G.O.A.T. You've Never Known (PTFO Vault)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The G.O.A.T. You've Never Known (PTFO Vault)"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The G.O.A.T. You've Never Known (PTFO Vault)
• Host: Pablo Torre, Le Batard & Friends
• Release Date: August 7, 2025
• Description: In this deep-dive "talkumentary" episode from the PTFO vault, Pablo Torre sits down with legendary basketball player Oscar Schmidt to explore his unparalleled career, his pivotal decision to forego the NBA, and his profound impact on international basketball.

---

1. Introduction to Oscar Schmidt's Legacy

Pablo Torre opens the conversation by expressing his admiration for Oscar Schmidt, highlighting Schmidt's status as the all-time leading scorer in basketball history with an astonishing 49,737 points (45:55). Torre emphasizes that Schmidt's decision to remain outside the NBA has made him one of the most underappreciated yet influential figures in the sport.

Pablo Torre (08:53): "What is your record? How many total points?"

Oscar Schmidt: "49,737."

2. The Great Missed Opportunity: Choosing National Pride Over the NBA

A central theme of the episode is Oscar Schmidt's deliberate choice to prioritize playing for the Brazilian national team over pursuing an NBA career. Despite being drafted by the New Jersey Nets in the 6th round as the 131st overall pick in the 1984 NBA Draft, Schmidt declined the offer.

Oscar Schmidt (43:30): "I never played in the NBA because I didn't want to play in NBA because New Jersey Nets drafted me at 6th round choice 131. That's why I never play in the NBA because I got offended with that."

Schmidt reveals that his national pride and commitment to representing Brazil were paramount, even at the expense of potentially breaking NBA records and gaining global fame within the league.

3. The Pivotal 1987 Pan American Games: Defying Expectations

One of the most dramatic moments discussed is the 1987 Pan American Games where Brazil faced the dominant Team USA. Entering the game with a 26-point deficit, Schmidt led an unprecedented comeback, culminating in a 120-115 victory for Brazil. This game not only showcased Schmidt's extraordinary skill—he scored 46 points and 35 in the second half alone (28:31)—but also marked a turning point in international basketball.

Oscar Schmidt (30:32): "That Brazil prove that basketball is universal, not just in America. That's the proof that we made in that game."

This victory was instrumental in challenging the NBA's restrictive stance on international players, ultimately influencing FIBA's decision to lift the ban on NBA players participating in international competitions.

4. Catalyzing the Formation of the Dream Team

Schmidt's success with the Brazilian national team directly pressured the NBA and FIBA to reconsider their policies. The legendary 1992 Dream Team, featuring icons like Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, and Magic Johnson, was formed following these changes. Interestingly, Schmidt acknowledges his indirect role in the Dream Team's creation.

Oscar Schmidt (35:14): "We talk about when we reunite the national team. We talk about the Dream Team."

Pablo Torre (35:52): "The only reason you were able to play in the Pan Am Games in 1987 was because you didn't go to the Nets and you didn't go to the NBA 40 years ago."

Schmidt reflects on how his choices set off a domino effect, leading to the globalization of basketball and opening the doors for countless international players in the NBA.

5. Oscar Schmidt's Vision for Modern NBA Players

Discussing the evolution of basketball, Schmidt draws parallels between his playing style and that of today's NBA stars. He praises players like Nikola Jokić and Stephen Curry, noting that Schmidt's emphasis on shooting and scoring from beyond the arc was ahead of its time.

Oscar Schmidt (41:29): "I look for Luka Doncic, I look for Jokic. I look for all the foreign players. Much more than American players. Because they are better than American players. They are much better."

Schmidt asserts that his own career, characterized by 45% three-point shooting and attempting 8.5 threes per game, would have seamlessly integrated into the modern NBA's pace and style.

6. Reflections on Records and Legacy

As LeBron James approaches Schmidt's all-time scoring record, the conversation naturally shifts to comparisons between the two legends. Schmidt remains unfazed by the prospect of his record being broken.

Oscar Schmidt (46:41): "Records are made to be broken. So broke as fast as he wants."

However, Schmidt underscores the uniqueness of his journey and the exceptional circumstances that allowed him to amass his record without the NBA framework.

7. Life Beyond the Court: Oscar's Current Pursuits

The episode delves into Schmidt's life post-retirement, highlighting his continued passion for basketball and cultural integration into American society. Schmidt shares anecdotes about his experiences in America, including his enjoyment of Disney and his humorous take on American sports culture.

Oscar Schmidt (50:32): "I love Disney. And the best thing, you go to Epcot center, sit on a bench and watch the people growing there going, the best sneakers that I see in the world."

Despite his age, Schmidt maintains an active presence in the basketball community, occasionally participating in celebrity events, although he humbly downplays his current athletic capabilities.

8. Closing Thoughts: A Legacy That Transcends the NBA

In concluding the interview, both Torre and Schmidt reflect on the broader implications of Schmidt's career choices. Schmidt emphasizes the universality of basketball and his pride in having paved the way for future international stars.

Oscar Schmidt (51:08): "Greatest joy was beat the Americans at the Pan Am games. That opened the doors for the pros playing every time."

Torre summarizes the profound impact of Schmidt's decisions, recognizing him as the catalyst for the NBA's embrace of global talent and the sport's worldwide expansion.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Oscar Schmidt on Playing for Brazil Over the NBA:

  "I never played in the NBA because I didn't want to play in NBA because New Jersey Nets drafted me at 6th round choice 131. That's why I never play in the NBA because I got offended with that." (43:30)

• On the 1987 Pan American Games Victory:

  "That Brazil prove that basketball is universal, not just in America. That's the proof that we made in that game." (30:32)

• Regarding His Influence on the Dream Team:

  "The only reason you were able to play in the Pan Am Games in 1987 was because you didn't go to the Nets and you didn't go to the NBA 40 years ago." (35:52)

• On Modern NBA Players and His Playing Style:

  "I look for Luka Doncic, I look for Jokic. I look for all the foreign players. Much more than American players. Because they are better than American players. They are much better." (41:29)

• On Records Being Broken:

  "Records are made to be broken. So broke as fast as he wants." (46:41)

---

Conclusion:

In "The G.O.A.T. You've Never Known (PTFO Vault)," Pablo Torre masterfully uncovers the storied career of Oscar Schmidt, shedding light on a basketball legend whose choices significantly shaped the sport's global landscape. Through candid conversations and heartfelt reflections, the episode honors Schmidt's legacy as not only a phenomenal scorer but also as a pivotal figure who championed the universality of basketball, influencing generations of players worldwide.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, so hello, it is me, Pablo, entering, invading even your ears. Because I have done something I have not done before, which is take the advice of someone who once told me that if people wish to support you financially, if they wish to support your journalism, your very strange future of journalism, meaning your newsroom, your ambitions, your desire to investigate things people don't want you to investigate, you should let them. And so I am on Substack, my [e-mail]. we'll put a link in the show notes of this episode. I have turned on paid subscriptions, and if you didn't know I have a substack, guess what? It's free. And that's still there for you. And it's worth it. But the paid subscribers who support this show and us will get legitimately cool personalized benefits. We will make it worth your while. We are figuring out here at PTFO our post draftkings future and, you know, more good news on that front. I hope to come. But in the meantime, Pablo show is where you sign up. Click the link in the show notes. Help support us, please. Thank you, thank you, thank you on that front. And this, this episode today is a handpicked episode from deep inside the PTFO vault that we sincerely hope you enjoy. Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Oscar Schmidt. It's Rex Chapman.

[Pablo Torre]

First you right after this ad.

[Oscar Schmidt]

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[Rex Chapman]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[Oscar Schmidt]

Speeding Kevin speeds. Cool. Here we go. This is take one.

[Pablo Torre]

Cool. We're Good. Rolling. Before we get started, I just want to say, Oscar, you have one of the greatest laughs I've ever heard.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Oh, yeah. People always say this.

[Pablo Torre]

You do. You really do. So I want to confess something in the spirit of goodwill and friendship, because you've invited me into your home.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm sitting with you on your couch, and I want to confess that I didn't really know your story until this past week when I started reporting the story. And I decided that I need to sit on this man's couch and talk to him in person, because I think it's really important.

[Oscar Schmidt]

That's.

[Pablo Torre]

People. To understand your story. So sorry, and thank you for having me. I want people to know your legend.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Because you have these amazing. Some of the best nicknames.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

So in Italy, your nickname was what?

[Oscar Schmidt]

It's Holy Hand.

[Pablo Torre]

The Holy Hand. Holy Hand is a awesome. Excuse me. An amazing. An amazing nickname.

[Oscar Schmidt]

We're going to cut this, right?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, we're going to cut this. Don't want to commit heresy while talking about the Holy Hand, but explain the Holy Hand as a nickname.

[Oscar Schmidt]

That's something.

[Pablo Torre]

Which hand is it? Which hand is it?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Right.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Oscar Schmidt]

I don't use anything here. Here I have a full of things.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. You happen to have your giant hall of Fame ring. That's a Hall of Fame on your middle finger. On your left hand, the unholy hand.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Hold it. This is tough.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, this is. Holding Oscar Schmidt's hall of Fame ring is. Is a bucket list thing for me now that I've learned exactly why you are deserving of this. Of this title. All right, so the reason I have traveled here, the reason I have come to Oscar Schmidt's vacation home in Orlando, is because I wanted to find out the parts of his story that cannot be Googled. Because, yes, you can look up Oscar, and you can see that he scored the most points in Olympic history. He scored 29 a game for the Brazilian national team. He dropped a record 55 on Spain in 1988. And you can also see that Oscar Schmidt, now 66 years old, has also scored more points than any basketball player ever. And he played across Brazil, across Italy, across Spain. He has the world basketball points record which has stood from the day he retired back in 2003. It is the one scoring record that LeBron James has not yet broken. But when I showed up at Oscar's house in Orlando, what he told me immediately was that Americans don't really even do this. They don't show up. They don't ask him to tell his side of his own story. And what I realized was that as a journalist who fell in love with the game, with basketball, because of the 92 Dream Team with Michael and Magic and Larry and Team USA, even Christian Lader, I was on that exact same track to be like everybody else. I watched you get inducted to the Basketball hall of Fame, of course. And the man who walks you down.

[Oscar Schmidt]

The aisle was Larry Bird.

[Pablo Torre]

Was Larry Bird.

[Oscar Schmidt]

My idol.

[Pablo Torre]

Welcoming Oscar to the hall of Fame is Larry Bird.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Ladies and gentlemen, Oscar Schmidt. It's too easy to have Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant as an idol. The guy flies around and do whatever he wants. It's too easy. My guy doesn't run, doesn't jump and play the best of everybody else. He's here. Larry Bird was my idol my whole life.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, it seems like he also respects.

[Oscar Schmidt]

You, of course, because I play almost like him. My coach in Italy said to me one time, you should be Larry Bird.

[Pablo Torre]

Just be Larry Bird is some good coaching. Be Larry Bird is some good coaching advice. I was watching clips of Kobe Bryant.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And Kobe Bryant was talking about how you, Oscar, were his favorite player.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Kobe Bryant was different. He was my guy. Let me tell you a story. He was Bird before I ever had a chance to see what Bird was. I'll take you to Oscar Schmidt, too, now. Oh, he was bad.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Oscar Schmidt. Yes. Yes. We had 47 in the US in the pan Am games. His dad plays in Italy, and he.

[Pablo Torre]

Grew up playing in Italy.

[Oscar Schmidt]

He grew up watching me beat his dad every year. He said to his father that he likes me. Joe said, no, no. Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan. No, no, no, no, no, no. You lose to Oscar every year. I will continue.

[Pablo Torre]

Which is all to say that you're kind of partially responsible for Kobe Bryant becoming the player that he was.

[Oscar Schmidt]

That's incredible.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, but the record that is in the news right now, right, is that you are the leading scorer in world basketball history of the most total points of any human being who has ever walked the earth. And so you're ahead of currently, LeBron James, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Karl Malone, Michael Jordan. So what is your record? How many total points?

[Oscar Schmidt]

49,737. And I'm very proud of that because I never played for records. I always play to win games, to win championship, to be the best.

[Pablo Torre]

What would Oscar Schmidt's NBA career like?

[Oscar Schmidt]

I would be top 10, sure that I'll be top 10. Me, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and all the rest that played in the dream team.

[Pablo Torre]

You're 100% positive, of course. So I want to make the case here, though, that you're not just the greatest basketball player that never played in the NBA. I want to explore the possibility that you're actually the most underappreciated basketball player to ever live.

[Oscar Schmidt]

And I live with that. And I live good with that.

[Unknown]

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[Oscar Schmidt]

More fulfilled now that you're back to work on August 15th?

[Pablo Torre]

No. I need a vacation.

[Unknown]

See the movie that critics are saying is an awesome day.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Look at that crowd pleasing, fist pumping all out brawl of a film. You're right about that. They're coming after our family. Go fix this.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh my.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Nobody 2, rated R. Holding in theaters August 15th.

[Pablo Torre]

So the case I'm here to make today is not simply that Oscar Schmidt is really underrated at basketball. But it is funny to me when I make these calls, as I have been all month, to longtime coaches and longtime analysts like Fran Frischilla, these guys who have been professionally scouting internationally in specific for decades, that they can't really help themselves. So Oscar was ahead of his time. And if Oscar had come in his prime. We would be thinking about Oscar in a way that we think of probably Luka, Dirk or Jokic, because he was truly a great player.

[Unknown]

His, his strength was scoring the ball.

[Pablo Torre]

Great, great shooter, could score from anywhere on the floor and very confident, cocky guy. And he would have been, his personality would have been a great fit for the modern NBA.

[Unknown]

And with the three point line nowadays.

[Pablo Torre]

He really would have been a magical player to watch. You know, the Steph Curry's of the world don't realize, probably didn't know until they did their homework that there were guys like this that could really shoot it just like them. And that is not an exaggeration, by the way. For his career, Oscar averaged almost 45% from three. It would have been second all time in the NBA if he did it in the NBA. Number one was Steve Kerr, a guy who it is worth noting, attempted less than two three pointers per game. Oscar by contrast, attempted eight and a half threes per game. Eight and a half. Which would have been second career only to Steph Curry in the league. But the biggest difference with Oscar by far is that when he was doing all of this in the late 80s, nobody else was anywhere. I mean, just look it up. In 87, the Dallas Mavericks led the NBA by attempting eight threes per game. As a team, Oscar shot more than that by himself.

[Oscar Schmidt]

That was my objective. Shoot more than anybody.

[Pablo Torre]

Did people try to convince you not to do that?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes, all my coaches shoot sometimes, Oscar. Not many, but when I do 10 from 11, 8 from 8. Oh, you did good, eh?

[Pablo Torre]

When you score 49,000 points, it's like, okay, maybe this guy was onto something. But who gave you the idea at 6 foot 9? Because it's also that you're taller than everybody.

[Oscar Schmidt]

It's obvious. If you have a line, let's say from here to there, it's three points. Why are you gonna shoot two? Arivi Dao, your coach, our coach, he gave me chocolates when I get rebound because I was more to offense. And then he must defend something. And then he gave me this present, this chocolate. And one day I went to the hospital because during the practice I was with a bag with 55 of these chocolates. And I ate it from one day to the other, all 55.

[Pablo Torre]

So your approach.

[Oscar Schmidt]

I'll start to piss Brown.

[Pablo Torre]

You're saying Oscar, your approach to eating chocolates was your approach to shooting threes? Of course, as many as you can get. You wanted to take those?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes, because I didn't like a lot Difference. But I knew that I must guard somebody. And that's the reason that he gave me this chocolate. Get some rebound, Oscar. Come on.

[Pablo Torre]

With all of this understood, I want to get to the enormous decision that ensured why I growing up and why lots of Americans in my generation and younger and older too, were why we don't know your story, which is you chose not to play in the NBA.

[Unknown]

For the next three hours, the USA.

[Pablo Torre]

Cable Network wishes you to join us for the 1984 NBA Draft. We will be taking. I want to ask you about the fact that you get drafted. Yes, by the nets. This is 40 Years Ago Now, 1984. That's Michael Jordan, that's Akeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley. Those are the guys who get drafted in the top five picks, of course. And so sixth round, you get taken 131st overall. And so you're feeling. Your first reaction to being the 131st pick was what?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Come on, man, if you want me, get me the first round. I could say to him a lot of bad words, but I keep it up and I go there.

[Pablo Torre]

So you go to the Nets.

[Oscar Schmidt]

I go to the Nets. I go to the camp of Nets.

[Pablo Torre]

You go to America.

[Oscar Schmidt]

And I ask them, who is the first choice? Oh, Jeff Turner. Jeff Turner play in Italy. And I kick his butt every year. And then I go there and said to the Coach, coach, here's one point a minute. If you give me 20 minutes, I give you 20 points. We play five games against the hookies of the other teams. They gave me 25 minutes. I gave him 25 points. They become crazy about me.

[Pablo Torre]

You played five of training camp games.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And you just shot a.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Where is Jeff Turner? Oh, he cannot come. He was first choice. First choice. He should be here showing us that he was the first choice. And I said no to the contract.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, I want to explain how we get to that point, because there's this rule, and it's a FIBA rule, and it says NBA players specifically are not allowed to play in the Olympics. And these represent their country. On the national team, it was an NBA specific rule.

[Oscar Schmidt]

If you played just one game in NBA on that time, you could not play never more with your national team.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Oscar Schmidt]

And for me, national team was first, one second the teams. But national team, you represent a country. So for me was the best thing.

[Pablo Torre]

How would you describe at the time how the NBA viewed international players?

[Oscar Schmidt]

They don't view international.

[Pablo Torre]

Did it feel like disrespect?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Of course.

[Pablo Torre]

And so for you, the decision not to sign with the Nets, which was a decision to not go to the NBA. How difficult was that decision in the end?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Easy. They offered me the contract. I don't want it. I just want to know if I am capable. And today I know that I'm capable to play in NBA.

[Pablo Torre]

So you just went to training camp to prove that if you did decide to do it, you could do it.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Why six rounds? Come on, man. I know how to play basketball.

[Pablo Torre]

And so you go back to Italy, right? You're playing in Italy, you're scoring a million points in Italy. And the next year, 1985, you encounter one of the guys that you would have played against in the NBA had you decided to go. And it's an exhibition game. Who was it? I wanted to know about the game you played against Michael Jordan.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Oh, yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And I have a video, because I want you to just rewatch this video that I have. What happens is Michael Jordan goes up, he dunks, and the entire backboard shatters. And the glass is covering your teammates.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Two teammates.

[Pablo Torre]

And where are you on the court as a student?

[Oscar Schmidt]

I was not close to there.

[Pablo Torre]

So you didn't get hit by the glass?

[Oscar Schmidt]

I didn't get hit, but I saw the hand of Tato Lopez. I saw the tendon going back and forth.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, my God.

[Oscar Schmidt]

And Pietro Genelari has a cut here.

[Pablo Torre]

Like this on his side, on his right side.

[Oscar Schmidt]

So he took two players of our team, right? I said to him, you are not from the Earth. And he respond, you too. And this phrase that he gave it to me, I bring with me my whole life. If the best player, as you all guys say, that Michael Jordan is the best player, said that to me. Come on, right? He knew me.

[Pablo Torre]

So the biggest, though the biggest, most shattering game that you played in against future NBA stars. Now, this was two years after that game in Italy. It's 1987, it's in the United States, it's Indianapolis, Indiana. And it's the Pan Am Games. And so I want to explain for people, Oscar, the Pan Am Games were a huge deal.

[Unknown]

From the dawn of civilization in the Americas, the spirit of human achievement has inspired feats of monumental proportions. Like the ancient temples they built. The Incas, Aztecs and Mayas embodied strength, discipline and vision. And out of the ruins of this storied past lives a spirit that continues today in the Pan American Games.

[Pablo Torre]

It's basically the continental Olympics. It's north and South America, Central America, the Caribbean. There's a parade. The whole thing is broadcast on cbs. It's enormous.

[Unknown]

Indianapolis, the Capital of Indiana and center stage for the 10th Pan American Games.

[Pablo Torre]

And this game, the gold medal game, was held at an actual NBA arena. Of course, it was Market Square Arena. It's where the Pacers played it sold out.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

They had won 34 straight games. They had, Oscar.

[Oscar Schmidt]

They never lose.

[Pablo Torre]

They never lost in the United States, ever. And so what is your expectation? If you're being honest?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Entering this game as you're with the.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Brazilian, my expectation was lose by 50.

[Pablo Torre]

So this team has David Robinson, Danny Manning, Rex Chapman, Purvis, Ellison, all these NBA guys, the biggest stars in college. Right. And do you think they took you seriously?

[Oscar Schmidt]

They didn't took us serious.

[Pablo Torre]

Nobody in America seemed to take them seriously. I mean, the head coach of Team usa, Denny Crum, didn't even remember the leading scorer of Brazil's name, which happened to rhyme with Bhaskar Mitt. And at the opening ceremonies, the CBS broadcast couldn't even name a single opponent, a single country they were worried about.

[Unknown]

In your mind, is there any team that can pose a threat to the U.S. well, I've only seen a couple practice. But in all reality, Verne, this is a very, very strong team. As a matter of fact, I think the contingency that we have here is as strong as the club we had that won the Pan Am gold the last time and the Olympic Games in la. It's a very strong team.

[Pablo Torre]

But Oscar and Brazil made the gold medal game and immediately proved pretty much everybody right. That by going down by almost 30 around this point, the entire American press corps, it turns out, made a pretty memorable decision, which Mike Wilbon, who was there with the Washington Post, confessed to me, the writers, the sports writers covering.

[Oscar Schmidt]

The game for the biggest newspapers and smallest ones across the United States of America said, that's it. We've been here 23 days, or whatever it is.

[Pablo Torre]

We're packing up and people packed up.

[Oscar Schmidt]

And they left press row.

[Pablo Torre]

They left. And we went back in the back.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Of the Market Square press room and we talked about the games, about what had happened, about track and field and boxing and basketball. And then somebody rushed into the press.

[Pablo Torre]

Room and said, hey, it's down to nine.

[Unknown]

And this game has tightened up considerably. This is the golden medal game in men's basketball. Dick Stockton and Billy Packer. At one time, the USA had a 20 point lead, but Brazil cut it to four moments ago before Willie Anderson stretched it to six. A 134 run by Brazil has tightened this game up. Led by the great Oscar Schmidt. And a physical affair at that. Billy. Well, the Game has gotten.

[Pablo Torre]

So I want to understand what changed in this game because you guys are down 26. And then suddenly the comeback starts.

[Oscar Schmidt]

One day I was talking with Senna.

[Pablo Torre]

Senna, the great F1, F1 Brazilian legend.

[Oscar Schmidt]

And he told me, I talk to God, Oscar. I talk to God, too. Talk to God is something that almost perfect.

[Unknown]

Right now what we have are one club just as completely an emotional high. Schmidt with three more, Billy, and it's now a one point game. United States is going to have to.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Go back to a lineup something extreme. You are, in a way that you see the game in slow motion, but you are not in slow motion.

[Unknown]

With a little more than halfway through, Schmidt gives Brazil the lead with a three pointer. He has 28 points. 17 this half. Oscar is putting on more of a show here. Not only with his shooting, but the emotion. He's gonna drain himself here just with his celebrations after the shots.

[Oscar Schmidt]

It's unbelievable. And I had this sensation like almost 30 times.

[Unknown]

Boy, Oscar has got no conscience for this big Warner. But anybody I've ever seen that loves to score more than he does.

[Oscar Schmidt]

All the shots I did, I remember everyone.

[Pablo Torre]

You, you, you had at least six in the second half. Six threes in the second half.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Six.

[Pablo Torre]

But there are some. I was watching the video.

[Oscar Schmidt]

I thought it was seven.

[Pablo Torre]

I think it was. Maybe it was all seven in the second half.

[Unknown]

He's coming back right now. Marcel Sosa. Schmidt hits a three. That's seven three point shots.

[Pablo Torre]

Do my accounting. But I was watching the video and you're, you're pulling up and no one's there to rebound it.

[Oscar Schmidt]

You're being guarded, of course, because I score like that. All my coaches say like this. Did you see no rebound?

[Pablo Torre]

I'm saying, yeah, I saw no one was down there. No one there to pick up the rebound.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Even without anybody at rebound.

[Pablo Torre]

When you're in the second half of the 87 gold medal game, do you remember any particular moment, a favorite shot that you had that you took in the second half?

[Oscar Schmidt]

There was one that I miss. Israel get the rebound. That was his mission. And call me Oscar. Come on. Again.

[Unknown]

Three point attempt again by Smith. Not that time. But the rebound by Andrade. Smith again. Three pointer. Boom.

[Oscar Schmidt]

And I score. There is this shot in the videotape.

[Pablo Torre]

When you watch the video, what becomes clear is that few people in the history of basketball have ever had a more green light to shoot.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Oh, no.

[Pablo Torre]

Do you remember one of the things you said after or before making a shot?

[Oscar Schmidt]

No, I. I just screamed with the.

[Unknown]

United States Oscar with two more. And now it's getting real serious for the United States, Billy, and their efforts to retain the gold medal. These players have to be more shocked than we are.

[Pablo Torre]

When you watch the tape, it is remarkable. You hit a shot and you scream.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Running the other way, of course, they.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Must know who is who. Who they are playing against, huh? I was that guy that. No, don't come to. To New Jersey. That's because of national team. And I was playing with my national team.

[Pablo Torre]

Wilbon also told me that you guys were. You were, like, slapping yourself in the face.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes. Oscar Schmidt keeps hitting shots.

[Pablo Torre]

He's hitting shots and he's slapping his own face on the way back down the court.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Backpedaling. I'm wake. I'm weak. Come on, give him the ball.

[Pablo Torre]

You're like, all right, I need it. I'm Oscar Schmidt. You're reminding yourself. He said he had never seen that.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Before in his life. No body. Ask me that. Nobody, even in Brazil, that people that saw the game. Everybody saw that game.

[Pablo Torre]

You're telling me it took you again, 1987, 2024. Took you almost 40 years for someone to ask you, why were you slapping yourself in the face during the most pivotal game perhaps international basketball history?

[Oscar Schmidt]

I thought I was sleepy. Come on, man. Oh, I'm away.

[Unknown]

Brazil wins the goal. Shocking game.

[Pablo Torre]

The scene of when the buzzer sounds and the final score again. You finished with 46 points. You scored 35 in the second half. It's one of the greatest comebacks. The most shocking things that's happened in international basketball history. Brazil beats Team USA 120 to 115. And I want to just play that final scene from the game for you, because I want you to tell me what you were feeling.

[Oscar Schmidt]

So, Marcel, I dry in the floor crying because for me, was not possible. What happened here, right?

[Pablo Torre]

You fall on the floor, you're crying, crying.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Because when you win something that you're not supposed to win, most of the times you cry. If you are emotional. I was very emotional. And all our players are crying.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, you guys are all falling to the floor. You're on your back, you're yelling. What are you yelling? You're saying something.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yelling, we won. We won the game in Portuguese, which is what. Which was.

[Pablo Torre]

So what did you prove?

[Oscar Schmidt]

And then.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Oscar Schmidt]

And they knocked the door of our locker room and said to us, we don't have our. Your anthem after the game.

[Pablo Torre]

The Brazilian national anthem.

[Oscar Schmidt]

We go from here to the airport. No, no, please don't do that. I'll try To. To. To have your anthem. They take, like, 40 minutes to have the anthem ready. And then we go. Was just the beginning of the anthem. And we start to sing without the anthem. That's much more emotional.

[Pablo Torre]

What do you think you proved that day? What did Brazil prove?

[Oscar Schmidt]

That Brazil prove that basketball is universal, not just in America. That's the proof that we. We made in that game.

[Pablo Torre]

This is what Mike Wilbon wrote for the Washington Post. He said this quote, the Americans sat on the bench, stunned, their faces looking like they'd seen the end of the world.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yeah, I have a picture of that. And I. I. And I'll show you this picture.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Looks like they died. And there was more.

[Pablo Torre]

10 minutes to play, Right?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

I do like how you just have this photo that you can look at here. Yeah. That looks like people have seen the end of the world, which means look at the faces.

[Oscar Schmidt]

They're gonna lose.

[Pablo Torre]

I did want to show you something. A video that I brought that you have not seen before.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Because somebody that I know is one of the guys on that team, on Team USA that you beat. And this is a message for you from Rex Chapman.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Whoa.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, you can play it just hit.

[Oscar Schmidt]

There you go. Oscar Schmidt. It's Rex Chapman. First you and I love you. It's been a long time, man. We were in command of that ball game, if you remember, at halftime, and Oscar Schmidt came out of halftime and put the Brazilian team on your back. You got so hot, you could kick them in, and there was nothing that we could do. We lose the game. I've never been in a locker room more. Disappointed, sad, crying. You did a lot of that, Oscar. I love you, buddy. Be proud. What a life. What a career. See ya. Beautiful.

[Pablo Torre]

He didn't say you at the start.

[Oscar Schmidt]

I love the you because it's what somebody say to somebody who beat you. You nice, man. Nice. Real n.

[Rex Chapman]

Your backyard barbecue has some new RSVPs. Just tap Target. With the grill raring to go, your personal shopper is tackling your same day delivery order at Target, babe.

[Pablo Torre]

So Bob and Lynn are bringing the kids after all.

[Rex Chapman]

Pro tip. You can change your same day order with a quick text to your shopper.

[Pablo Torre]

I'll have her add popsicles.

[Rex Chapman]

Ooh, and some sidewalk chalk. Your shopper texts a thumbs up. You text five exclamation points, and life is good. Text with a personal shopper and get it all delivered asap. Just tap Target.

[Pablo Torre]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up, we thought we'd bring our prices Down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing.

[Unknown]

Mint Mobile Unlimited Premium Wireless. How to get 30, 30.

[Pablo Torre]

Better get 30.

[Oscar Schmidt]

20, 20.

[Unknown]

Everybody get 15. 15, 15, 15.

[Pablo Torre]

Just 15 bucks a month.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Sold.

[Unknown]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch.

[Rex Chapman]

Upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month. Required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra. See mint mobile.com.

[Pablo Torre]

In many ways, ways that I in no way appreciated growing up as a kid in the 90s. And the most important part of Oscar's story is what happened next. Because after the US lost to Oscar and Brazil, this soccer country in America, this unprecedented humiliation on home soil, Team USA then lost to our Vita Sabotas. And the Soviet Union the next year in Korea in the 88 Olympics. And all of this led to a legislative change in 1989 that changed everything forever. Because at long last, FIBA decided to lift its ban on NBA players from international competitions. It was the same ban that had made Oscar Schmidt stay abroad in the first place. It was a rule that a panicked America now demanded. The Dream Team. The finest collection of basketball players ever assembled.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Superstars and superheroes playing together on one team for one reason and one reason only.

[Unknown]

Payback.

[Oscar Schmidt]

We talk about when we reunite the national team. We talk about the Dream Team.

[Pablo Torre]

What do you say?

[Oscar Schmidt]

It's our fault if we didn't won that game. There is no Dream Team.

[Pablo Torre]

Right?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yeah. Simple like this. And I know this. You can say whatever you want. I know this. I know that something unbelievable. The Dream Team is playing because our team, Brazilian basketball team.

[Pablo Torre]

This is the embarrassing part for me, Oscar. So I grew up. I was six years old when it was the 92 Olympics in Barcelona. And I fell in love with the NBA because of the Dream Team. What I did not realize until reporting your story is how personally responsible you were for the formation of the Dream Team. Yes, of course, because you beat Team usa, that leads to the rule being lifted, which leads to Larry Bird and to the Barcelona Olympics. I mean, it gets to the basketball that became the global game, of course. And so all around the world, because of the Dream Team, a young responsible.

[Oscar Schmidt]

For the Dream Team.

[Pablo Torre]

So a young Pau Gasol, a young Dirk Nowitzki, a young Tony Parker, a young Luka Doncic, Nikola Jokic, Joel Embiid, Giannis Antetokounmpo. You're the first domino that results in the Dream Team exporting basketball, which leads to all of the great international players who did the thing that you did not do, which is they went to the NBA. And so the guy who never set foot in the NBA became responsible for all of the international players who would. And that's a incredible thing.

[Oscar Schmidt]

They make the dune team for what?

[Pablo Torre]

To get revenge on you, on me, on Thabonis? Yes.

[Oscar Schmidt]

On all the big players that the world had.

[Pablo Torre]

The international guys.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

How dare they come and beat the Americans at their own game. The fact that you're the reason is one of the great, just like revelations for me as a fan. Did you ever consider when they lifted the rule, when FIBA lifted the rule that said you could play in the NBA and play in the national team?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Did you ever consider going to the NBA at that point?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yeah, but I was a little old. I don't play like I did play because I was tough. I was very tough. And I played better than many players in America. So I could play in NBA for sure. Because I had this instinct, the killer instinct, that when you shoot the ball, you know, that the ball goes in. And few players have this instinct. And I had it. I used it in Italy, I used it in Spain, and I was very happy. NBA wouldn't change my game, wouldn't change my personality, nothing.

[Pablo Torre]

So.

[Oscar Schmidt]

And when I was invited, I think about come. But I did not play like I played years before.

[Pablo Torre]

So when the 92 Olympics happen and it's Barcelona and it's Magic and Michael and Larry and Charles and all those.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Guys, everyone was there.

[Pablo Torre]

They get their revenge on you. They do.

[Oscar Schmidt]

I know, but it was not the revenge because all the best basketball players in the world are playing with us. We don't have that team that could beat the Dream Team. We have a good team that could beat that college team, but not the Dream Team from NBA. Michael Jordan. Everyone was there.

[Pablo Torre]

No, I mean, this is why I fell in love with the game, was because I was watching these guys blow. I mean, look, Brazil, you guys lost this 127 to 83. You had 24 points in 30 minutes. I was growing up in the United States, son of immigrants from the Philippines who didn't really know sports.

[Oscar Schmidt]

I play in Philippines.

[Pablo Torre]

Really?

[Oscar Schmidt]

They have a good basketball.

[Pablo Torre]

We love basketball.

[Oscar Schmidt]

My God, the tournament that Philipp does are incredible.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah. The fans are everybody.

[Oscar Schmidt]

I love basketball. Philippines.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I say all of that to just say that the game got exported.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

In the process of them destroying everybody in the Olympics, including you.

[Oscar Schmidt]

We didn't think about this at the moment, but after going the days, the months, the years, we think about it.

[Pablo Torre]

And so here's the other domino in this procession. The only reason you were able to play in the Pan AM Games in 1987 was because you didn't go to the Nets and you didn't go to the NBA 40 years ago.

[Oscar Schmidt]

That's what I think at the time.

[Pablo Torre]

You saw this all coming. You said to yourself, if I, Oscar Schmidt, go to the nets as a 6th round pick, the Dream Team in 1992 will never be formed. Basketball, it will never be the same again.

[Oscar Schmidt]

I was not that profound. But when we won that game, you.

[Pablo Torre]

Said, I'm so glad that I was able to do this. We never went over there.

[Oscar Schmidt]

That was an unbelievable thing that happens in basketball.

[Pablo Torre]

Your decision in 84 to not go to the NBA is the first domino that sets into motion everything we've been talking about.

[Oscar Schmidt]

You discover everything.

[Pablo Torre]

I try to find out some stuff.

[Oscar Schmidt]

You can say. You're a good reporter.

[Pablo Torre]

Oscar Schmidt. Put that on the movie poster. Put it on the podcast poster. Pablo Torre finds out. I want to ask you about just the present tense now, because you watch basketball, you alluded to this, but when you were playing basketball again, nobody was playing like you in the NBA. And so when you watch the NBA today, in 2024, Oscar, what do you see?

[Oscar Schmidt]

I look for Luka Dontic, I look for Jokic. I look for all the foreign players. Much more than American players. Because they are better than American players. They are much better. If you look Jokic, Jogan playing, this guy's going to. Going to win the third time.

[Pablo Torre]

The best player, another guy who can't really jump, but can shoot, but can.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Shoot, can do anything he want. He's a guy that I don't know because he already did a few games that he didn't make triple double. But was the guy to make triple double on median.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, yes. Averaging a triple double.

[Oscar Schmidt]

He's unbelievable. One day I saw him, was shooting, boom, passed the ball behind him. That's not super relevant to an NBA game.

[Unknown]

But how about Jokic with an incredible.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I saw that one. I saw that play. But even. But what's crazy is that even the Americans play like you. That's the thing.

[Oscar Schmidt]

If you don't shoot from trees, you don't win anymore.

[Pablo Torre]

So I'm watching Steph Curry, I'm watching Damen Lillard. Everybody plays like Oscar Scho.

[Oscar Schmidt]

He's playing his friend Thompson.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, Clay Thompson.

[Oscar Schmidt]

How he's unbelievable. He's the guy that I admire more, really Clay.

[Pablo Torre]

You like Clay the most?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Oh, of course. He shot. It's always the same. If he shoots from two, it's the same as he shoots from three. Same shot.

[Pablo Torre]

You know what? Now that you mention it, it reminds me of watching you because the mechanics are always, always.

[Oscar Schmidt]

He's faking the guy.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Next shot will be right.

[Pablo Torre]

And even the shot being overhead.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes. That's why I like him very much.

[Pablo Torre]

Do you feel like the players in the NBA know your story?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Many knows, but many don't know. And I feel this in the air.

[Pablo Torre]

What does it feel like to you?

[Oscar Schmidt]

I feel like you don't know me. Okay, no problem. Go, go with your team. I don't get upset about this, but I. I see.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Well, I think there's a key thing which even. Even this story. Right. I'm trying to tell it to people and I think that the first impression that they have is, but this guy never played in the NBA.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Never played. I never played in the NBA because I didn't want it.

[Pablo Torre]

And so describe just that part of this story. The idea that your entire life you've had to sort of remind people that even though you never played in the NBA, you still have a story worth hearing.

[Oscar Schmidt]

I will say, what camera here?

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, let's pick that one right in the middle.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Okay. I never play in NBA because I didn't want to play in NBA because New Jersey Nets drafted me at 6 round choice 131. That's why I never play in the NBA because I get offended with that.

[Pablo Torre]

You.

[Oscar Schmidt]

You too.

[Rex Chapman]

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[Pablo Torre]

The reason you're back in the news lately though is because you have this record. The all time points Record, which again is 49,000 and how many?

[Oscar Schmidt]

737.

[Pablo Torre]

737. So LeBron James is about to pass you. It's just a matter of time. Yes, he's on pace to do it. He may be doing it as we're talking right now. I don't know. Are you watching LeBron's games?

[Oscar Schmidt]

I love the way he plays because he's a good basketball player. He shoots from three. Every dunk he does looks like you're seeing a concourse of dunking team. So he make assist. He is a perfect player.

[Pablo Torre]

Do you care about your record being broken?

[Oscar Schmidt]

No. Because as you do in this every journalist that I talk, people ask me, do you care about LeBron James?

[Pablo Torre]

I'm no.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Records are made to be broken. So broke as fast as he wants.

[Pablo Torre]

You're different players, but you also have had similar goals. It seems like. Because not just being the all time leading scorer in the history of basketball on planet Earth, but you guys have also. I mean, you retired at what age?

[Oscar Schmidt]

45. I was persistent.

[Pablo Torre]

I've noticed. I've noticed this about you, Oscar, on this couch. Your persistence is a definite quality. You have?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Do you have any advice for LeBron James as he tries to be Keep.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Playing the way you were playing. You broke my record. Soon you listen, LeBron. Go like this, you'll be the first one in the world.

[Pablo Torre]

2017, you're playing the celebrity All Star Game in New Orleans. I have never seen this before until I saw it. An actual hall of Famer.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Playing next to like Ansel Elgort.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Come on.

[Pablo Torre]

Did you know any of your teammates?

[Oscar Schmidt]

I didn't know anybody, but I could play the whole game because I practiced one month every day to go to that game.

[Pablo Torre]

And so what is your review of your performance in the 2017 Celebrity All Star performance?

[Oscar Schmidt]

If I play the whole game, I will be the best of the game because I score. And the basketball game, first thing you must score. Basketball is not made for good defensers, is made it for good offensive plays.

[Pablo Torre]

And so you took two shots.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Two shots. Come on, come on. How will be the best of the game with two shots?

[Pablo Torre]

You were 2 for 2.

[Oscar Schmidt]

If I shot 10 would be 10 for 10.

[Pablo Torre]

So now you're 66.

[Oscar Schmidt]

66, is that right? Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Do you still play?

[Oscar Schmidt]

No, no. Because I get fat a little bit, so I won't do the same thing.

[Pablo Torre]

You look great, Oscar. You look great.

[Oscar Schmidt]

But I don't play like I played before.

[Pablo Torre]

You don't even shoot anymore?

[Oscar Schmidt]

No, nothing. I play Soccer. I don't know if you play. If you want to play in my team. I don't know. I must see you playing before you're scouting now. Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Here's. Okay, here's my scouting report. I don't play defense.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Don't play defense in soccer.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Okay, you're forgiven because I don't play defense, too. But if the guy crossed the ball, boom, My head is like my third leg.

[Pablo Torre]

Something that I noticed, I was looking through. You have a YouTube channel also, and I want to point this out. You spend time in America. We're here in Orlando. You spend some time here and talking to you and watching some of the videos you've been making in your free time. You seem incredibly American now.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

You sometimes are wearing NFL jerseys. You're giving, like, opinions takes about the NFL.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Well, it's an opinion. I watch NFL a lot. Wow. Wow. It was Ravens for a couple of NFL Super Bowl.

[Pablo Torre]

Do you feel like an American now?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes. Much more than most Americans. Because First Thinkers here in Orlando has Disney and a fan of Disney.

[Pablo Torre]

Something that I've realized, something I found out today, is that you love Disney.

[Oscar Schmidt]

I love Disney. And the best thing, you go to Epcot center, sit on a bench and watch the people growing there going, the best sneakers that I see in the world. People don't play, but have the best sneaker.

[Pablo Torre]

This is the most American ever, by the way. You wear an NFL jersey and you give takes into your computer camera. You go to Disney World and you sit at Epcot center and you judge all of the people wandering around. It's a small one.

[Oscar Schmidt]

I'm a good judger.

[Pablo Torre]

One last question is, what is your greatest joy from your career?

[Oscar Schmidt]

Greatest joy was beat the Americans at the Pan Am games. That opened the doors for the pros playing every time. And I was a pro and I could not play for NBA. I could not play with my national team. Come on, man.

[Pablo Torre]

If that rule did not exist, what would Oscar Schmidt's NBA career have been like?

[Oscar Schmidt]

I would be top 10, sure that I'll be top 10. Me, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and all the rest that played in the Dream Team. If that guy, Big guy. What's the name of that big guy?

[Pablo Torre]

You'll have to be a little more specific.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Oscar Akelechi Jogunu. Dream Team.

[Pablo Torre]

No, no, no, no, no. Laitner.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Leitner. If he plays in the Dream Team, I could play in the Dream Team, too. Come on. He goes there to pass the ball. Shoot something. Come on.

[Pablo Torre]

MAN on. Christian Laettner is another deeply American activity.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yes, of course.

[Pablo Torre]

Oscar Schmidt. The reason. It turns out that I fell in love with basketball.

[Oscar Schmidt]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Thank you for your time. Thank you for this couch.

[Oscar Schmidt]

The reason. Oh, my man. Thank you so much.

[Pablo Torre]

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production, and I'll talk to you next time.