The Hall-of-Famer (and "One Shining Moment") That Fans Deserve

Summary

Podcast Summary: Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: "The Hall-of-Famer (and 'One Shining Moment') That Fans Deserve"

Release Date: April 4, 2024
Host: Pablo Torre (with Le Batard & Friends)
Key Guests/Co-hosts: Charlotte Wilder, Ryan Cortez, ESPN’s Mike Breen, Jackie MacMullan, Mark Spears, Jay Bilas, David Aldridge, Red Panda (Rong Niu), David Fleming

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Overview

This episode of "Pablo Torre Finds Out" kicks off with a listener question about why halftime performers—like dancers, mascots, and legend Red Panda—are not represented in the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. The show evolves into a campaign for Red Panda's Hall of Fame induction, a surprising history lesson about performance enhancing drugs in baseball, an origin story for the “One Shining Moment” tradition, and some classic Le Batard Show silliness and camaraderie.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Should Halftime Performers Be in the Basketball Hall of Fame? (00:43–08:00)

• A listener asks why halftime performers and mascots aren't recognized in the Hall.
• Charlotte Wilder was dispatched to investigate and spoke with Matt Zeysing, lead historian at the Hall.
  • "A performer like Red Panda would be eligible for the Hall under the Contributor category." (07:37, Charlotte quoting Zeysing)
• The hosts debate the cultural impact of acts like the Miami Heat’s “Golden Oldies” as well as more physically demanding performances.

2. Making the Case for Red Panda (05:36–15:52)

• Red Panda’s act described: Rong Niu balances herself on a 7-foot unicycle, in heels, and flips bowls onto her head.
• Pablo and crew strategize a Hall of Fame campaign for Red Panda, enlisting media support.
  • "It's the gold standard. It is the obvious case for the first halftime performer to be in the Hall of Fame." (06:25, Pablo)
• Process revealed:
  • Nominations are open to all; nominees go through a “screening committee,” then an “honors committee” (24 members, including executives and media).
  • Needs 75% of the vote for induction.
• Red Panda herself joins via phone, shocked and humbled at the support:
  • "Never thought about being in the Hall of Fame... I will be grateful, I will be speechless even." (15:21, Red Panda)
  • She describes fans' enthusiasm: "I can feel this positive energy... it’s amazing how supportive they are." (16:26, Red Panda)
• The team commits to launching a petition and campaign.

3. The Red Panda Hall of Fame Endorsement Montage (12:03–14:21)

• Media luminaries like Mike Breen, Jackie MacMullan, Jay Bilas, David Aldridge, Mark Spears deliver heartfelt endorsements:
  • "There’s only one person who can go into any basketball arena in the world and get a standing ovation every time, and that’s Red Panda." (12:32, Jay Bilas)
• Red Panda, clearly touched, gives her blessing: "I'm humbly proof. I am so stupid, I'm speechless." (15:00, Red Panda)

4. Petition & Tactics (18:03–21:00)

• Records recreated—hosts balance bowls on their heads, emulate Red Panda; Pablo and Charlotte discuss ramping up outreach, leveraging media, and encouraging public support.
• Direct call to action: "I want signatures. I want… everything we can get." (19:02, Pablo)

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5. Voicemails & Oddities: Spit in Sports (21:14–30:17)

• Mike from NY asks: why can pro athletes spit so well?
• David Fleming ("Phlegm") traces the centrality of spit:
  • Scientific role: aids digestion, speech, homeostasis, social signaling.
  • Evolutionary theory: marking territory—rejected since female athletes don’t spit as often.
  • Psychological theory: self-soothing, oral fixation, especially in high-failure sports like baseball.
    • "Players are self-soothing; there's an infantile need to calm themselves in a sport where there's so much failure." (25:25, Dr. John Hayes, Penn State)
  • Social theory: it’s learned & imitated, much like pilots emulating Chuck Yeager's radio drawl.
• Fun moment: Fleming acts out putting in chewing tobacco and spitting, to the team's raucous disgust. (29:43)

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6. Early Performance Enhancing Drug Use in Baseball (30:37–40:27)

• Dennis from Queens asks: When did PEDs start in baseball?
• Fleming uncovers a wild history:
  • Athletes tried “elixirs of life,” including raw animal testicles and a concoction with “water, blood, semen, and the juices from pigs, dogs, monkeys.”
  • Babe Ruth and others believed such consumption improved performance.
  • Pud Galvin, 19th-century ace, was likely the first juicer—used “Brown-Séquard Elixir,” a testosterone-rich mix.
    • “He turned to the elixir of life to rejuvenate his career…[which] contained the juice from the testicles of guinea pigs, dogs, and monkeys.” (33:39, Fleming)
  • Pud's family maintains it was only a one-time thing and not comparable to modern steroids.

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7. March Madness Tradition: “One Shining Moment” Song (41:09–49:10)

• Kwesi from Brooklyn calls the song “corny,” wonders why it’s never changed.
• Charlotte confesses she doesn't even know what it sounds like!
• Pablo traces the classic’s origins to songwriter David Barrett:
  • Barrett was inspired in 1986 after failing to impress a “Helen of Troy”-like waitress at a bar while talking about Larry Bird—immediately wrote the lyrics on a napkin and had the song finished within a day. (42:25–45:12)
  • “The face that launched a thousand montages… I did not know the origin story is a horny dude at a bar.” (45:37, Charlotte)
• Attempts at updates/remixes discussed; tradition has prevailed because CBS resisted change.
  • “No one was trying to kill it. CBS really wanted to maintain it.” (46:22, Pablo)
• As a capstone, Pablo debuts a “remix” of One Shining Moment with permission from Barrett and DJ Steve Porter—a blending of classic and “banger.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On halftime performance:
  “I really believe these types of performers are crucial to the game.” (02:33, Charlotte)

• Hall of Fame process revelation:
  “Red Panda would be eligible for the Hall of Fame under the contributor category.” (07:37, Charlotte quoting Zeysing)

• Red Panda's humility:
  “Never even thought about being in the Hall of Fame…but I will be grateful." (15:21, Red Panda)

• Red Panda campaign spirit:
  “We’re the campaign staff you have not asked for, but we’re now going to be working on your behalf to get you into the Hall of Fame.” (14:41, Pablo)

• Baseball spit wisdom:
  “Spit is one of the most important liquids of the human experience…and it’s a key to sports.” (22:24, David Fleming)

• Performance enhancement history (on Pud Galvin):
  “He was injecting [an elixir] made of water, blood, semen, and juices from pigs, dogs, and monkeys.” (36:34, Fleming)

• One Shining Moment origin:
  “I jotted on a napkin…wrote the lyrics while waiting for a friend, then went home and wrote the music in half an hour.” (42:32–45:12, David Barrett)

• March Madness tradition:
  “The face that launched a thousand montages… the origin story is a horny dude at a bar.” (45:37, Charlotte)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Listener question & Hall of Fame investigation: 00:43–08:00
• Red Panda campaign & phone call: 10:47–17:54
• Red Panda’s perspective: 15:00–17:54
• Hall of Fame endorsement montage: 12:03–14:21
• Petition, tactics & call to action: 18:03–21:00
• Spitting in sports: 21:14–30:17
• Performance-enhancing history (Pud Galvin): 30:37–40:27
• ‘One Shining Moment’ / March Madness: 41:09–49:10

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Conclusion

This episode is a mix of reporting, debate, and celebration of basketball’s overlooked contributors—halftime performers—culminating in a genuine movement for Red Panda's Hall of Fame induction. Along the way, listeners get hot takes on mascots, delight in sports lore's weirder corners, and get an exclusive remix of one of sports television’s most beloved traditions.

Call to action: Support Red Panda’s campaign using the show’s petition and hashtag, and call 51385-Pablo with sports questions for future episodes!

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're going to find out what this sound is. Red Panda deserves to be in the Basketball hall of Fame. Let's make it happen right after this ad.

[B]

You're listening to Giraffe Kings. Network.

[A]

Journalism is why we're here today. We got voicemails. We're a detective agency. We solve journalistic curiosities and. Should we just get to the first one?

[C]

Let's do it.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Oh, hi, Pablo. This is Terrell from Berkeley. I really like your show, and I do have a question. My boyfriend and I were talking last night, and we're wondering why there aren't any performers in the NBA hall of Fame. You know, like the. The dancers and the mascots. Shouldn't they be eligible? Because they're all part of the game show. Right. Okay, thank you.

[A]

So shout out to this listener.

[B]

Shout out. Terrell in Berkeley.

[A]

It's a great question. And so it's such a great question that the reason Charlotte is here is in fact because Cortez, we dispatched her to solve the mystery of why aren't there any performers, halftime performers of any kind, in the Basketball hall of Fame.

[C]

She's one of the best reporters we know. So this is an important subject, obviously, mascots and so forth, halftime performances. So we put one of our best reporters on it.

[D]

Stop it.

[B]

That is so nice.

[A]

You're also.

[B]

Unless you're trolling me.

[A]

No, because you're also just like, the type of person who I think just.

[B]

No, you're also just a clown. So we thought it would be a good fit.

[A]

You're a bit of a freak, Charlotte.

[C]

You dressed up as a hot dog once.

[B]

I mean, I didn't dress up as a hot dog. I became a hot dog as a mascot and crashed a wedding. So big difference. I talked to the lead historian at the hall of Fame, Matt Zaising. I asked him what the process was, how it would all take. And before we get into that, I do want to say that I think a performer getting into the hall of Fame might be.

[A]

Which should happen.

[B]

Yeah, should happen. Might be a little bit of an uphill battle based on the conversations I had now.

[A]

But this is where I fully am on the side of the aisle that Charlotte is on. Like, people need to respect what these people are doing. And it sounds like the Basketball hall of Fame is already like, nah.

[B]

So I. I don't know that I would say that they're that dismissive. They. They seem to. They took it seriously. And I want to make it Clear to everybody listening and to you guys and to the hall of Fame especially. This is not a bit, I'm not trying to call, you know, make a joke of the hall of Fame or the sanctity of it. I really believe that these types of performers are crucial to the game in know, you know, Heat games. The golden oldies.

[C]

Don't, don't get me started on the golden oldies. That's hall of Fame material. That's a group of people that range from like age 62 to 82. They dance their ass off at every game.

[B]

D. Yeah, I took that video. That's your, that's, yeah, that's my video. Every time I go to Heat games, I, I, I record. I didn't know which to choose to bring you guys. Cuz I have like 15 videos of the golden oldies. And when I walk by them, you know, in the concourse before they're going to perform, I'm always like, oh my God, you guys are amazing. And one of them was like, oh, thank you. Yes, we know. And I was like, good. Okay. Well, I'm, I'm glad you're aware.

[A]

That was, I should say that was pretty impressive. Just not who I consider to be like the obvious hall of Fame inductee that I have in mind. But who else is out there?

[B]

Well, so at NBA All Stars at the skills night, there were these perch pole performers.

[A]

What?

[B]

For those of you who cannot see this and are listening, there is a very large strong man in a leotard and pants, I will say, holding up a pole that is balanced on his shoulder with a little brace. And a woman has them climbed that pole and is pole dancing in a very safe for work way.

[A]

Taylor Swift is wild.

[B]

Yes. The hair is a little too 2009. Taylor Swift.

[C]

That looks dangerous.

[B]

Look what she's about to do. Look what she's about to do. She's wrapping her legs around this.

[A]

It's a little King of diamonds in this act so far.

[B]

Just what is that? She drops all the way.

[A]

That's even more King of Diamonds.

[C]

Kod.

[B]

I don't know what that is.

[C]

You should know.

[A]

It's for the best.

[B]

Okay. And then she is on. She's holding herself up on his.

[C]

On his door.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yo, Nick Offerman, the forearm strength. When did you get this ability, the.

[B]

Core strength to plank like that on someone's head?

[A]

I want to throw dollar bill bills at that.

[C]

Pablo, calm down.

[B]

Yeah. Jesus.

[A]

I know, I'm sorry.

[B]

Whenever I go to basketball games, I'm first, First of all, I'm blown Away by the basketball players. Then you have these acts like this that are very different types of physicality but. But require balance, require in front of.

[A]

A crowd, crazy public pressure.

[C]

If they.

[A]

If you mess up your act. It's deeply humiliating for a lot of time.

[B]

For TV timeouts, for halftime, for coaches challenges like a lot of these that for replays, whatever. The players aren't floor and somebody needs to keep the energy up. It is an integral part of the game for players to keep the crowd locked in to make it feel like a big moment.

[A]

So this is where we need to talk about the. The panda in the room. I don't even know how to begin to describe for someone who has never seen the Red Panda act, what she is doing.

[B]

Here's Red Panda her, if you don't know, embarrassing. Embarrassing if you don't know her real name is wrong new. She is on a unicycle that is seven feet tall, wearing two and a half inch heels. She has five bulls balanced on her head already. I believe she is stacking.

[A]

She has four right now on like the. On her foot.

[B]

Yes, she is with one foot. She is steadying the unicycle, moving her foot back and forth to keep the balance.

[A]

And everybody is enraptured by this.

[B]

She just tossed those bowls. Each one of them flipped the perfect amount and landed on top of the other bowls on her head.

[A]

It's the gold standard. It is the obvious case for the first halftime performer to be into the hall of Fame. The question I have now that we officially understand, no one who does this job has ever made it in. And in fact, when you began to look around this, you didn't exactly get the sense that, oh, this is obviously going to happen. Yeah, how do we get this to happen? How does a process work of actual election?

[B]

The hall of Fame, something I appreciate about it, it's sort of shrouded in mystery. And I think a Hall of Fame actually should be shrouded in some mystery because there is this level of like people around a crystal ball being like.

[A]

Who'S going to get the Illuminati?

[B]

Yes. So Red Panda would be considered a contributor. The hall of Fame has categories for how you get nominated and what bucket you go into. There are players, coaches, teams, and then contributors and contributors can be executives there. There's Meadowlark Lemon, the famous Globet. Another example of a contributor, Denny Bison, who owned the Syracuse Nationals and he came up with the 24 second shot clock.

[A]

Media people actually do under the Curt Gowdy Award every year. There are a couple of people who get in as. As. Yeah. Media figures deserving of enshrinement.

[B]

This is where talking to the lead historian was very helpful, because I straight up asked him, I said, would Red Panda be eligible? Could she be in the hall of Fame? And he said, a performer like Red Panda would be eligible for the N. Smith Basketball hall of Fame under the contributor category. So it's good news.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

The doors are open.

[A]

We have a. We have a. A goal.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The.

[B]

The. The bad news is that I got the sense that there is a real emphasis on basketball on, like, the. The development of the game. How have you shaped teams? Executive. Like, really basketball.

[A]

Literal with the sport.

[B]

Yeah. The way that this works is that once someone is nominated, which requires a form, you fill out a form. Anybody can nominate someone to be in.

[C]

The hall of Fame, can nominate the minister of Heat propaganda for how he's impacted the Miami Heat parakeet, Cortez.

[A]

Yeah, sounds like it.

[B]

Honestly, like, maybe we should.

[C]

Okay, noted.

[B]

Once someone is nominated, this goes directly to that lead historian, Matt Zizing, who. Who I talk to. And he then goes about putting together a dossier. He. He researches them. He talks to people who know them. He dives into their stats, if they're a player, and then presents that to the screening committee.

[A]

And there's another committee after this committee?

[B]

There sure is, and it's called the Honors Committee. And that is the committee who votes on whether someone will be enshrined or not. And it's a very high bar. There are 24 members of this committee. They are coaches, some current, even no players, though, so former executives and media members. You need 75% of the vote.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And so look, I'm looking at this research, Charlotte, that you brought us, and there are 73 media members in the hall of Fame via the Kurt Gowdy award. There are 76 contributors. And so I. I am thinking like a political strategist, like this. These are electoral votes. We can win. We can do this.

[C]

You just gotta call Bob Bryant. That's it.

[B]

Michigan. Michigan will be ours.

[A]

I've interviewed Red Panda before. I've told her that I want to have her be a Hall of Famer, but now I want to formalize it. And what I realize is that we media types, we gas bags.

[C]

I'm a member of the media.

[A]

That's right. Unfortunately, we are uniquely qualified to make the case, because at halftime, the players go to the locker room, the coaches go to the locker room. Fans who love vaping go to the bathroom to Ooze tank. Oh, but the media.

[B]

That's what that is.

[A]

We're typically there. And so what I did was I went to my Rolodex, said we.

[C]

You haven't been to a game as a media member since I've known you, probably.

[A]

How dare you?

[C]

You sit in the front row with Sudeikis is how you would go to games.

[A]

Like, how dare you?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

What I have is the credential of somebody who knows a lot of media people who have been elected to the hall of Fame via the Kurt Gowdy Award. And so I have a campaign montage, I have endorsements. I want to formalize this process.

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

And I think what we need to do is make sure that Red Panda herself is okay with what we've been cooking up.

[C]

Let's talk. That's a good idea, dude. Let's talk to her.

[B]

Lucky thing she'll. Do you think she'll answer if we call her?

[A]

I'm not entirely sure.

[C]

Yeah, let's try.

[A]

But I believe.

[B]

Oh, my God, guys, I'm going to flip out. This is. My heart's beating really fast.

[A]

Let me, let me, let me, let me go to the section of my phone that says Asian Immortal hall of Fame candidates, and let's give her a call. So, Rune, it's good to see you again. I told you that I was going to get you into the hall of Fame. And in an attempt on behalf of me and Charlotte and Cortez to make this a reality, we have a special video from some friends, some hall of Famer friends that we wanted to play for you, if that's okay.

[E]

Of course. I, I, I. I'm anxious to hear it.

[A]

Hi, this is Mike Breen, and I'm proud to say I'm a charter member.

[F]

Of the Red Panda fan club.

[G]

Hi, this is Jackie McMullen, retired sports journalist and ardent Red Panda fan.

[A]

I'm David Aldrich. Now, we all agree the world is.

[C]

Not a great place right now, and.

[G]

There'S very few people who bring us joy.

[C]

One person who does, no matter your.

[A]

Standing, no matter your station, no matter.

[G]

The team you root for, is Red Panda.

[A]

I'm Jay Bilis of espn, and I've spent my entire life in basketball arenas literally all over the world. And there's only one person that can go into any basketball arena in the world and is instantly recognizable and gets a standing ovation every time, and that's Red Panda. Sup, everyone? This is mark spears from ESPN's landscape.

[C]

There've been some other acts and Frisbees and people on stilts and stairs and stuff like that. Ain't nobody like Red Panda.

[F]

I've probably seen her perform close to a hundred times. And every time I'm amazed by her.

[A]

Skill, her talent and her joy.

[G]

Can I balance a ball on my head?

[H]

Probably.

[G]

But can I balance it while I'm riding on a seven foot unicycle? I mean, that's not happening. And then we could never do what happens from there, which is watching the balls go from the Red Panda's feet, one after another after another onto the top of her head while wearing two and a half inch heels.

[C]

Every time I see her, I stop and pay attention. Every time. No one else has that kind of impact.

[A]

Her dedication to her craft, the amount.

[F]

Of work she puts in so she can perform every single night in front of a packed arena is truly extraordinary.

[A]

And that is why I wholeheartedly support.

[C]

Red Panda being elected and selected for.

[A]

The Naismith Memorial Basketball hall of Fame.

[C]

If they can have me, they certainly should have her.

[I]

As far as I'm concerned, she's a Hall of Famer.

[A]

A Panda hall of Famer.

[G]

Let's see what we can do to get her into the Basketball hall of Fame.

[A]

Red Panda deserves to be in the Basketball hall of Fame. Let's make it happen.

[E]

Oh, you guys, I am so humble. Oh my God. That was wow. Oh, that was wow. Thank you. Oh my God. You guys did all those.

[A]

And so me and Charlotte and Cortez and everybody at my show, we're the campaign. We're the campaign staff that you have not asked for, but we're now going to be working on your behalf to get you into the hall of Fame. So do you approve? Do you approve this message?

[E]

I'm humbly proof.

[A]

I am so stupid. I'm speechless.

[E]

I dance. Thank you.

[B]

Rung. Have you ever thought about being in the hall of Fame? Has it ever crossed your mind that you should be in there?

[E]

Never. Never even at all. But I, I still, I will be grateful. I will be speechless even.

[A]

Do you know that there are no halftime performers in the hall of Fame? You would be the first one. If we successfully. If you get your. Your fair due and get elected. Wow.

[E]

That will be amazing to me.

[A]

Wow.

[E]

I can't imagine.

[A]

Can you explain the connection that you feel to the fans in a basketball arena? Because something that I'm worried about is that the hall of Fame committee does not appreciate the job of the halftime performer in the way that they understand and of course respect players, coaches, even media. Members, broadcasters. How would you describe the feeling, the connection you have to the people in the building, the fans of the game? When you get on your unicycle and. And do your actual.

[E]

I think people more enjoying for. How can she do that? How the balls can turn upside down and one turn, full circle, one turn, half circle, all laying in the same direction. It's amazing how supportive they are. I'm amazed. Sometime in Boston, I mean, in pretty much all arenas, they're right behind that go. And then, yeah, they. They very supportive. I can feel that. I can feel this positive energy, like when I start performing.

[C]

I just wanted to ask you. There are a lot of teams that have halftime acts. The Miami Heat have the Golden Oldies. It's a bunch of people age 60 to 80, and they dance. Personally, I'm not as impressed with them as you, and I just wanted to know if you agree that the Golden Oldies are cowards and that you're number one.

[E]

Oh, my. Oh, sweet. I appreciate that.

[C]

I'll take that as a yes. Thank you very much.

[E]

I'm not sure I will take that as yes. They're pretty fun.

[A]

Run. Thank you so much for your help. Thank you for taking time. And we're gonna get you into the hall of Fame if it's the last thing I do on earth.

[E]

Thank you. So good to see you again, really. My honor, always.

[B]

It's ouron. I'm starstruck talking to you. So thank you.

[E]

Thank you to everybody. Thank you.

[A]

I love her.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

She's the best.

[B]

She's an absolute delight.

[C]

She inspired us.

[A]

Yes. If you're not watching on YouTube or the drafting network, we have bowls on our head. Charlotte is better at this than. Than me. I have my.

[C]

You're cheating big time.

[B]

Pablo has the bowl upside down with the headphones over it, securing it to his head. I, on the other hand. And not a cow. And God damn it, not a coward.

[C]

Is what you tried.

[B]

And not a coward.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

Cortez has fell. I still have three bowls balanced on my head.

[A]

It's really. It's legitimately impressive.

[B]

I'm also cheating, though, because I think the curvature of the headphone fits very nicely into the curvature of the bottom of the bowl.

[C]

You say that, but mine has fallen a number of times, so I'm not sure what the cheat code is. You just seem to be better at.

[B]

This than Pablo and I. I have poise.

[A]

How can we be better at getting her elected to the hall of Fame? Charlotte, like, what's the process from here on out? Because I want to get a petition going. I. We're gonna put a link up here to get signatures. I want this to be more than just the media hall of famers that we got.

[C]

I want a link petition. Nobody saw that. Unless you're watching on the DraftKings network, in which case you did see that.

[B]

The bull.

[A]

I. I want everything we can get. I want signatures. I want. I want. I guess it's illegal to solicit. To solicit donations, but I want signatures.

[B]

Well, look, I think that there are media members on the. The honors committee, so I think we start there, which we've already done. I think then we've got to infiltrate the. The coaches, the executives. I think we've got to start making some serious inroads. Wow, Cortez, you are very bad at this.

[F]

Don't even.

[A]

Increasingly spastic.

[B]

I'm still now balancing them. If you've noticed though, my tone of voice has gotten much more even than it was. Don't get the beginning of this episode. I can't gesture very emphatically.

[A]

The nomination process. Right? So we're gonna get our petition, we're gonna get our art. We have our campaign artwork. Oh, bowls. Eat it, shepherd fairy.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Thank you for inspiring us. Slgo to hell. We. We have a movement underfoot.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so how do we get this nomination to the right people at the hall of Fame?

[B]

We sent it to. To my guy, the lead historian.

[C]

My guy.

[B]

I got you. If you get the form, if we get this process going, I can get this to the hall of Fame. That is my promise to you. Jesus, Cortez.

[A]

I think Ryan Cortez is having a stroke, bro.

[C]

I thought that's part of the bit. Is the ASMR been falling?

[B]

Oh, they fell.

[A]

Red Panda 2024 bulls. Bull Ds, bowls. We should be spamming this number, Cortez.

[C]

Everyone needs to be calling this goddamn number.

[A]

51385 Pablo. Red Panda petition on our social feed. All that stuff. But 51385 Pablo, leave us questions. Voicemails.

[C]

Like this one.

[A]

Like this one.

[D]

Hey, Pablo, it's Mike from New York. Happy start of baseball season. Look, I've got a question that's been gnawing at me for some time here, and it's. Why can professional athletes fit so well for me? I can barely hawk a loogie. Can you help me out? Oh, yeah.

[A]

Oh, dear God.

[C]

That was disgusting.

[A]

That was gross, Mike. Thank you for the call. Nonetheless, to answer this question, because of course, yes, spitting is synonymous with baseball. And with sports at large, arguably we got Charlotte out of here. And welcome in. The only person I can think of.

[C]

Only one person for this, truly the.

[A]

Man who was born to do this. Flem David Fleming. Hello.

[G]

Finally my name pays off. Finally.

[A]

Yes, Great name, dude. We turn to you on matters of the human spirit, of human physiology, of culture, and also, of course, of phlegm. And so what did you do with this assignment that we gave you? Thanks to Mike.

[G]

Well, first of all, can we. I want to give a shout out to spit.

[A]

Right.

[G]

Spit needs a glow up because what you guys sent me around the world to investigate this topic and what I found out was, oh my God, spit is like one of the most important liquids of the human experience. And it definitely is a key to, to sports. I mean, think about this. It's, it is, it's. It aids in speech, it aids in digestion, it's a part of homeostasis. It is how we seal a handshake with a spit. It's how we insult somebody by spitting in their face. One time, in fact, because my name is Phlegm, I counted the times that Drew Brees licked his fingers before each pass. And it was something like between 9 and 13. So sports cannot exist without spit. And especially baseball.

[A]

Flynn, why? What? This fixation that we have, this oral fixation we have with spit that is most apparent in baseball, of all the sports, why, why is it that way? Having now reported this story.

[G]

Yeah, so we reached out to a sociologist in England. I reached out to an anthropologist in San Francisco who used to play minor league baseball for the Detroit Tigers. And then we talked to a. It was like a food and sensory expert at Penn State. And we ended up with like three major possible reasons why there's so much spitting. The first one that's interesting is there could be an evolutionary component because spit contains proteins that contain our DNA. And so the idea is if you're spitting and spitting toward opponents or spitting on someone else's home turf, you're marking your territory. It's a way to mark your territory. It's a way to, to say, I own this. But one of the anthropologists we spoke to said if that were the case, then female baseball players and softball players, they would spit just as much as the male players, they would mark their territory just as much. And that's not really the case. So that theory kind of falls to the wayside.

[A]

Okay, so if it's not isolatable to just a, a marking of ourselves upon our territory, then what, what's theory Number.

[G]

Two, players are self soothing. There is a sort of like infantile need, oral fixation, to sort of calm themselves in the pressure of a sport where there's so much failure. And the one that we talked to the most was Dr. John Hayes, who is a professor at Penn State and an expert in food and sensory science.

[I]

I mean, not to get all Freudian about it, but I think we really don't. Again, the other thing that's underappreciated is how many nerves there are in our mouth and our tongue and our face and that, you know, there is some self soothing that's going on there. Those oral behaviors. I mean, you talk to people that smoke and like a lot of the rituals around that are really important. A colleague of mine at Ohio State has shown that people's sense of touch on their tongue and their lips and some people is even more acute than on their fingertips. So when you're thinking about like all that touching. Yeah, it could be to get that grip on the ball.

[A]

Absolutely.

[I]

If you're going to throw that tight spiral. But it could also be just sort of the habit and the ritual.

[G]

But it's interesting when you start to piece this together. Remember in Covid where first in Korean baseball and then Major league Baseball, for health reasons, they tried to ban and cut down on spitting. The players reacted like a bunch of little babies. They were like, absolutely not. I can't, I won't stop spitting.

[A]

And yet spitting in football or soccer is not nearly as endemic.

[C]

Right. Hold on, because this is something I've been thinking about this whole time. You see my tottenham kit if you're watching on DraftKings Network. I've been watching a lot of soccer, also known as football. And when I watch football, they don't spit necessarily, but they do this thing. They blow a snot rocket out of their nose relentlessly. On every, every team they're just got snot blowing out and it's like, are they clogged in the nose that bad in soccer versus any other sport? Or this is just another, you know, symbol of being an infant and wanting to express yourself and blow snot on the field or whatever?

[A]

Or is there something phlegm, is there something cultural to the rituals that people have inherited and, and now feel like are. Are forever, are forever practices that cannot be taken from them.

[G]

The third theory, which is my favorite and I think is the most accepted and prevalent is that the, the players, without even knowing it, and just like the, the football players, they're, it's. They've been socialized Until I sort of started reporting this piece, I had no idea the power and the influence of socialization just in our everyday lives, in baseball in particular. And as Dr. Hayes pointed out in. In things that we don't even know that are going on all around us.

[I]

I have a really colorful example for that. Outside of sports, but well, within this. This view. Have you ever noticed how every commercial airline pilot has that source? Sort of like breathy? We reached 47, 000ft. Believe it or not, they're all imitating Chuck Yeager. Goes all the way back to General Yeager flying early in the 1950s. And that was the laconic drawl that he had. And so there was a whole generation of pilots that grew up imitating them. And then it became a cultural phenomenon.

[A]

The degree to which we are all mimicking a cliche is now a little. Making me a little self conscious about myself.

[C]

But it just speaks to, like, not enough creativity. Why are we just copying each other over and over? Like, be original, you know, I. I like it.

[A]

I actually like it, though. It is very reassuring. When I get on a flight and the pilot is, this is your captain speaking. We have bit of a weather.

[C]

Bit of weather, bro, get me off this flight. I don't trust you at all.

[G]

If you did get on a flight and your pilot sounded like that, you'd be like, get me off this flight. I'm gonna take a train. And I wonder if it's the same thing with baseball where you're like, oh, my God, if they all stop spitting, you would be like, well, this isn't.

[A]

You know what? You know what I would lose confidence in is a closer who took out a hanky and hawked a loogie delicately and folded it up and put it into his pocket. He's trying to blow his nose, and I was going to blow this goddamn game.

[G]

It's funny. I always thought it was like, oh, the baseball players need to spit. I think we all need it, too.

[C]

When's the last time you spit, Fleming?

[G]

Good question.

[A]

Oh, no. Are you about to pack up? Are you about to pack a lip.

[C]

For the DraftKings audience? He just pulled.

[G]

I was a wrestler in college, so this.

[A]

This, like, for the podcast audience. Phlegm is about to have some. Phlegm is reaching. Oh, my Lord.

[G]

Delicious.

[C]

Oh, no.

[A]

No, stop it. No.

[C]

You've learned nothing.

[A]

Oh, he's chewing it. He's like a. Like a. Like a goat eating a bale of hay. Except it's tobacco. It's. It's plastic bag. Tobacco. And he's now grimacing.

[G]

I feel like a baseball player.

[A]

I'm out.

[G]

No, no, I got a cup here.

[D]

Oh.

[A]

This is your pilot speaking. We need to get the out of here. Gross.

[C]

I've had enough of your pilot voice for the rest of time.

[A]

All right, what is. What is the next voicemail, please?

[D]

Hey, Pablo, this is Dennis from Flushing in Queens. Great fan of the show. I have a question about baseball history. I seem to remember the Greenies in the 1970s and 80s, and everybody remembers the steroid era of the 90s. Performance enhancement. When did that actually begin? Thanks for checking. Bye now.

[A]

I love that Dennis seems to remember Greenies in the 70s and 80s. I hear you. I hear you. D dog. The apothecary, though that phlegm is for us on today's show continues. You know, he's like an old timey medicine man. He's exploring the folkways and the customs of science through the ancient times.

[C]

Thank you for explaining it.

[A]

Yes, Phlegm, what did you find out about PEDs at the very beginning of baseball history?

[G]

Boy, you sent me down. You guys sent me down quite the rabbit hole on this one. And a lot of it is just pure nightmare fuel. But what you learn the minute you start looking into this is number one. Performance enhancing has been going on since the dawn of sports. And it goes all the way back to the first Olympics, the first Modern Olympics in 1894. And then a sub genre of that is this incredible infatuation that athletes have. Male athletes have with consuming the testicles of animals to try to improve their performance.

[A]

I mean, go on.

[C]

What kind of animals?

[G]

Oh, God.

[A]

What kind of performance?

[G]

Very good question. I mean, really, any animal with testicles has been used by an athlete for performance enhancement, enhancing. The. The athletes. In athletes.

[C]

We're talking fried or steam. Testicles raw.

[G]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so. All right, well, I mean, devil's testicles. So the.

[G]

The athletes in 1894, they chewed on raw testicles and animal hearts before the competition, thinking that that would increase their performance. Babe Ruth consumed animal testicles to try and increase his performance.

[A]

What?

[G]

And. Yes, yes. And.

[A]

And this is not a part. This is not a part of the story. When we talk about the purity of these home run records flam, there should be an asterisk shaped like a testicle.

[G]

Exactly. And that leads us to the answer to Dennis's question, which is the original juicer in Major League Baseball and a guy who also enjoyed consuming the. The. The. An elixir made up of the juice from the testicles of guinea pigs, dogs and monkeys. Huh.

[C]

Interesting.

[A]

I. I should confess that none of those words in that combination have ever been presented to me before. So who is this guy?

[G]

So you guys need to meet. His name is James Pud Galvin. Jim. Pud Galvin was, in my mind the guy who, who the. The Cy Young Award should be named after this guy. It's really an incredible story. He played for 18 years late in the 19th century, and his numbers are incredible.

[A]

Wait, wait, so you talk about this guy being the real Cy Young, Meaning the Pitcher award for best pitcher should be named after Pud Galvin. How good was he?

[C]

Yeah, what are some of these stats?

[G]

First of all, he's still fifth all time in wins by a major League baseball pitcher, which would be like a guy in a leather helmet throwing a pig bladder, like having more passing yards than. Than Tom Brady. So he's fifth all time in wins with 365. He pitched for 18 years. He pitched 6,000 innings. 645 complete games. Holy 57 shutouts. He threw the original perfect game in Major League baseball.

[A]

And his name, his nickname, what's the origin of that?

[G]

It's not pud. It's pud because even though he was like 5 foot 8, pound 160, he. His fastball would turn batter's legs into pudding. And that's how he got his. His nickname.

[A]

Wait, so, okay, batter's legs returned to pudding, but Pud was preparing his testicles from three different types of animals. How. How is he preparing them in his kitchen?

[G]

So this is. Pud is the original PED user in Major League Baseball. And it's a common kind of sad theme, right? He's. He ends up. He's been pitching for 18 years. He has. Over the last three years of his career, he had averaged something like 50 games a year. He's 32 years old. His. And he's starting to lose his stuff. And so he turns to this famous elixir. It's called the Elixir of Life. He turns to the elixir of Life to rejuvenate his career.

[D]

So.

[A]

All right, so I didn't realize there's like a Zelda dynamic to this as well. So he's looking for the elixir of life, the ocarina of time or whatever. And that contains what there is a.

[G]

Like a 72 year old world renowned physiologist, neurologist. His name was Dr. Charles Edward Brown. Sard.

[A]

That sounds like a dirty limerick.

[G]

And he creates this potion made out of water, blood, semen I never did find out whose semen was.

[C]

That was my question.

[G]

And then the juices from pigs, dogs, monkeys filtered, right? Filtered.

[A]

And then injected a Brita filter, ran that through.

[C]

That's supposed to make us feel better. It was filtered.

[G]

And he starts selling it as like the Red Bull of their time. Hood injects it to get a sort of a new lease on his career. He pitches a 90 shutout against the Boston bean eaters. And.

[A]

Baseball was whimsical. Man, the bean eaters pud. Everyone's eating testicles.

[C]

The question about who's semen it is is one I can't stop thinking about. Because if he was saying a lot of people are taking it, it got popular. It was in medical books. If a bunch of people are taking it, who's providing all that semen in each vial? Like, is it all from this original?

[A]

So this is where we should question before we continue to slander the legacy of pudding. Did he find someone who could speak on behalf of his estate, on behalf of, of, of the legacy of one of the greatest pitchers we never knew and now only know because of this whole semen testicle thing?

[G]

Well, we were able to track down his great, great, great great granddaughter in Pittsburgh, Amanda Minardi. And she was kind enough to lay out the, the, the debate and the family stance on how unfair it is to have PUD compared to modern day steroid users.

[H]

I actually talked to my aunt about that as well and she said, you know, from her understanding, it was one time that he tried that. And I think back then they were doing things back then that we considered weird. And I'm sure nowadays taking vitamins might have been something a little weird back then. So, you know, I think that it gets a negative connotation about it. It was not, from my understanding, a lifelong thing that he did. It was something he tried once. It was, you know, 1800 science. So really how much, you know, potency could have been in that? From what I understand, it had some really gross things in it. So I was always told it had something to do with monkeys, but. And I always thought it was, like I said one time, but again, that was 130 years ago. So who knows?

[C]

He's out here off monkeys.

[D]

What?

[C]

That is wild. Somebody called Peter. He's doing what to monkeys, bro?

[A]

Statute of limitations have passed since, I believe the 1800s.

[G]

No, at one point during this interview we were talking about the monkeys and I was like, once they got rid of the elixir, I was like, boy, I bet the Monkeys were happy to.

[A]

Maybe they weren't.

[C]

Maybe they enjoyed the process. Who knows?

[G]

Because Cortez, they were. They were. He was. This doctor was Brown Sicard was. He was taking the. He was castrating them and then grinding up the testicles and using that liquid in his elixir. That's what was helping. Helping put.

[C]

Wow, that got dark really quick. That's not what I was imagining. I was imagining the happy day for the monkeys. They come and go. Literally.

[A]

No.

[D]

You.

[A]

You thought that this was going to have a happy ending, as it were. 51385 Pablo, we promise not to prosecute you for things your great, great, great, great, great grandfather may have done 130.

[C]

Years ago or castrate you.

[A]

I love the NCAA tournament.

[C]

Love the women's tournament.

[A]

Women's tournament is king. The out of the men's tournament. Right? To be clear, I will not. Look at me, Louie, myself. Just know that I have witnessed it personally.

[C]

We all saw your social media. We know where you were, Pablo.

[A]

I mean, it was pretty great. Well, actually, Albany, New York, we didn't.

[C]

See you on the tv. You know, we saw your photo. We didn't actually make the broadcast.

[A]

Play the voicemail.

[D]

What's up, Pablo? This is Kwesi from Brooklyn. So I've always thought that the One Shining Moment, like that whole montage was really corny and super lame. And I was wondering if you think that anyone has ever tried to replace it or if, like, we could expect a new one or they're going to refresh it or make it cooler. I hope so. I hate it. All right, thanks, man.

[A]

So do you know the story of One Shining Moment? The song that ends the whole tournament every year in a very dramatic, familiar way.

[C]

Corny way. No. Not only do I not know it, this is gonna sound crazy. I don't know if I know what One Shiny moment sounds like.

[A]

Try to sing what you think it sounds like. Okay. God damn it.

[C]

Did I get it right?

[A]

No.

[J]

The ball. This t. There you are. You're running for your life. You race Shooting star. All the years no one knows.

[A]

That is not One Shining Moment. God damn it. One Shining Moment is a song that was born apparently in 1986, before the Super Bowl. This is the hidden history.

[C]

It doesn't matter.

[A]

Cazlett, Michigan. There's a bar. There's a songwriter, his name is David Barrett, and we talked to him the.

[F]

Short version of where the the song and the title came. I. I had been playing in this little bar doing shows any arguably one of the more beautiful Waitresses in the Midwest was working there, but I'd never talked to her, as those things go. So at the end of a Wednesday night or whatever, I just sat down at the bar and had a beer with. With the bartender, and ESPN was on with Larry Bird. And then out of the blue, out of the darkness, came the. The Helen of Troy, so to speak, who sat down next to me. And I thought, now what? And so I panicked and began to explain to her the poetry of basketball, because I know. I know I used to play, and I. I love basketball. And. And what magical time it was for Larry Bird because he was better than most everybody on the court and what that felt like and so forth. So she sat there for a few minutes. I turned to look at Larry Bird again, and off she went into the darkness. After her disappearance, as I prefer to think she. I. I realized that I. I knew something. You're a songwriter. And. And I. I jotted on a napkin. Literally, I. Give me a pencil or a pen, and I wrote one. One Shining Moment about it. And it seemed to all make sense that at that point, Larry Bird was in this slow time. When you're that good, everything is. And the moment changes for some reason. That was. It came to me like a thunderbolt. So I wrote down One Shining Moment on a napkin, stuck it in my pant pocket, went home, slept on it, and then I was supposed to meet a friend for brunch. He showed up 20 minutes late. So I literally wrote the entire set of lyrics on another set of napkins, waiting for him to show up. And then after brunch, I went home and wrote the music in half an hour, and that was that.

[J]

It's all of a lie. One Shining Moment.

[A]

So I just want to just stop for a second and point out that this Helen of Troy waitress person, the face that launched a thousand montages. Yeah, that's the inspiration for One Shining Moment. I did not know that the origin.

[C]

Story is a horny dude at a bar shout out.

[A]

That's kind of David Barrett. Yes. Who did not get what he wanted, but instead gave us all something that we cannot. I mean, truly, like, we can't escape.

[C]

Well, also, no disrespect to him or anyone involved, but that's not a banger. That song is not a.

[A]

Hold on. So Luther Vandross did it, Teddy Pendergrass did it, Jennifer Hudson did it.

[C]

None.

[A]

And that was controversial. That one was kind of controversial. But Neo did it.

[C]

I remember Neo.

[A]

Yeah, it was. That was pretty good. But it turns out, if you go read the research on this. The highest level executives at Turner and CBS apparently did have a discussion that is a lot like what you're saying, which is maybe we should find a way to. To really finally change this thing because.

[C]

To put a banger on instead.

[A]

Yeah, well, maybe. Look what one executive told us, an executive familiar with the partnership, but they told us here, palpatory finds out is that, quote, no one was trying to kill it. CBS really wanted to maintain it, end quote.

[C]

But clearly CBS wanted to maintain it. The oldest network ever.

[A]

The thought has been, how do we update this? Right.

[C]

I got an idea. Rick Ross.

[A]

Okay. No, that's doing. Although I am intrigued by that. What I have instead, though, Cortez. And it turns out you may appreciate this in ways that you don't even realize yet that a remix may not be the worst idea.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

And so what I did as a gift for our audience for them to play throughout Final Four weekend, maybe instead of one shining moment when they watch it on television, is this thing that is. Yeah. Part parody, we should say that, but also part remix. We got permission, actually from David Barrett, the author that we met in that video, the Horny Man. We also got permission from our horny friends at the Dan LeBatard show, who had gotten permission from another artist that I think you'll recognize. And I would like to thank formally here, DJ Steve Porter. Shout out to DJ Steve Porter, remember his work from ESPN back in the day, and Porterhouse Media for a very special treat from us here at. Pablo Torre finds out on Final Four Weekend. This Meadowlark Media production is gonna go.

[C]

Out like this with a banger.

[J]

The ball is tipped. There you are. You're running for your life. You're a shooting star. And all the years no one knows just how hard you worked. But now we choose. In one shining moment. It's all of a sudden it's one shining bone. It's all of a line. When it's done, win or lose, you always did your best. Cause inside you lo. It's sunshine moment. It's sunshine. One shine, One shine.

[B]

One shine.

[J]

One shining moment.

[A]

Thank you to John Tesh.

[C]

Who the hell is John Tash?

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

That's the part you got to keep. One shiny moment, not so much.

[A]

This has been Pablo Torre finds Out a Meadowlark Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.