The Jordon Rules: An Exclusive PTFO Investigation

Summary

Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: "The Jordon Rules: An Exclusive PTFO Investigation"

Release Date: May 9, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Guests: Katie Nolan, Michael Cruz Kane

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Overview

This highly anticipated “talkumentary” episode dives deep into the saga of Bill Belichick and his girlfriend Jordan Hudson—exploring their unusual relationship, the rumors and controversies swirling around it, unexpected revelations about their inner circles, and the increasingly outsized role Jordan plays in the ex-Patriots coach’s media and personal life. Pablo, with Katie Nolan and Michael Cruz Kane, follows the connective threads between power, fame, generational divides, and the idiosyncrasies that define this rapidly evolving sports scandal.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Investigation Timeline and Breaking News

• Exclusive Access: Pablo reveals that the PTFO team has been gathering exclusive, embargoed information about Jordan Hudson for months, interviewing 11 direct sources.
• The "Momager" Dynamic: Katie notes Jordan’s "momager" energy—managing not just Belichick’s personal life but his nascent media career as well.

  “Yeah. Mine also says. Can I say the... 'exclusive' with two underlines. Embargoed with stuff. Stars. That's, I think, probably because I have a podcast.”
  —Katie Nolan (01:22)

• UNC Football Ban: Jordan has been officially banned from the UNC football building and field.

  “Jordan Hudson is no longer allowed in the football building. She is not allowed on the football field.”
  —Pablo Torre (04:14)

• Family Concern: Belichick’s family is “extraordinarily concerned” about the repercussions for his legacy and reputation:

  "There is deep worry for how detrimental Jordan—North Carolina. But Bill's legacy, reputation, everything he has built and worked for over decades."
  —Family source (05:28)

Timeline of the Relationship and Age Controversy

• First Meeting: Bill and Jordan met on a JetBlue flight in February 2021. Pablo meticulously pieces together the timeline, confirming Jordan was 19 (Bill, 68), and debunks misreporting about her age.

  Michael Cruz Kane: “19.” (12:47)
  Pablo: “Jordan Hudson, 19 years old. Bill Belichick was about to turn 69, I believe.” (12:50)

• Birth Year Mix-up: Internal UNC documents reveal Jordan listed her birth year as 2000, though available evidence points to 2001.

  “The reason I ask that question is... Jordan Hudson put down her birthday on this document, I am told, as April 2000.”
  —Pablo Torre (14:45)

  • The group questions whether this was a mistake or an intentional obfuscation.

Jordan’s Role in Belichick’s Media Empire

• Power Shift: Jordan was "entrusted" to run Bill's media ventures, despite lacking a relevant résumé.

  “Quote, jordan was my boss... The level of cockiness to go along with the absence of resume is stunning.”
  —Pablo Torre (06:10)

• Reality TV Aspirations and PR Missteps:
  • Jordan, per sources, is saving the “meet-cute” story for a possible reality show.

    "She is somebody who believes that an exclusive means exclusive. Like you can't talk about this anywhere else."
    —Pablo Torre (19:12)

• Embarrassing Set Moments: Anecdotes are shared about Jordan’s attempts to "hard launch" her relationship with Bill—pitching herself for commercial roles and demonstrating her inexperience with production etiquette (the “turned off camera” bikini scene).

  “She left set, came back sometime later in a yellow polka dot bikini... the crew had to figure out what the f--- do you do now.”
  —Pablo Torre (23:07)

The Vacuum in Belichick’s Inner Circle

• Circle of Yes-Men: Pablo outlines how Bill’s longtime confidants (Matt Patricia, Josh McDaniels, Mike Lombardi) didn’t challenge Jordan’s growing influence, leading to unchecked control.

  “These guys, like, are watching Jordan come in and they're like, eye rolling... but they're not telling Bill, they're not telling Coach, this is a bad idea. So she comes in and out alphas everybody.”
  —Pablo Torre (27:20)

• Work Environment: Media partners had to route all communication through Jordan, who was “on every single call, every single email.” Notorious incidents included her and Bill talking candidly on hot mics, unaware dozens were listening.

  “Bill Belichick and Jordan Hudson are mic'd up, they proceed to hear them talking about all sorts of people... They are not aware that dozens of people can hear them.”
  —Pablo Torre (29:28)

The Hudson Family: Colorful Backstory

• Mother’s Role: Lee Hudson, Jordan's mom, is profiled. She managed “Toys of Eros,” a prominent LGBTQ-friendly sex shop in Provincetown, and posted a pointed sign prohibiting MAGA supporters from buying certain items. (39:15-40:13)

  "Toys of Eros will no longer sell dildos to actual dildos wearing maga hats."
  —Sign at Toys of Eros (39:15)

• Injectable ED Drug Scandal: In 2017, the shop was implicated in illegal free demonstrations of the injectable ED drug Trimix, leading to a local health board scandal.
• Ex-Boyfriend: Jordan’s apparent ex, Joshua Zuckerman (mid-60s CEO of a geriatric facility), mounts an online defense of her character and posts melodramatic wine reviews on Vivino and “You go, girl” to Ann Coulter on Twitter. (34:41-37:34)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Jordan’s Age:

  Katie Nolan: "That's legal, right?"
  Pablo Torre: "I'm just, I'm just trying to clarify the time."
  Michael Cruz Kane: "Sure, by the law it's fine... but there are other, man has other laws then those that are writ."
  —(13:30-13:41)

• Trying to Make Sense of It All:

  Pablo Torre: “It seems like a series of cell phones and also. Cell phones.”
  Katie Nolan: “I was gonna say cell phones.”
  —(46:49-46:50)

• Reflecting on Inner Circles:

  “Every disaster you've chronicled seems extraordinarily self-inflicted.”
  —Pablo Torre (46:36)

• On Control and Power:

  “I watched her power grow inch by inch. I can take this, I can take this. I can take this. And the question then is, like, why wasn't anyone in the way? Like, how—why was the power vacuum so, so empty?”
  —Pablo Torre (25:59)

• Comic Relief & Absurdity:

  • The “dung dong” segment, discussing ancient dildos made of camel dung and penis sheaths in the Toys of Eros museum, offers both levity and striking imagery. (40:46-42:45)

  Michael Cruz Kane: “A dung dong, if you will.”
  Katie Nolan: “Dung dong.”
  —(42:40-42:43)

  • Katie’s callback:

    “28,000-year-old dildo. That's what she calls Bill.”
    —Katie Nolan (43:12)

• On Judgment and Perspective:

  “There is a part of me that looks at this and is like, look man, if I were watching it in a movie or reading it in a book and I knew that these were, like, fictional characters, I'd be like, something is up here. But they're two real people.... Maybe two people are getting what they want, and who cares?”
  —Michael Cruz Kane (45:19)

• Sign-off Wisdom:

  “You go, girl.”
  —Joshua Zuckerman's infamous tweet, reprised as the episode’s tongue-in-cheek outro (48:57)

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Important Timestamps

• Intro & Setup – [00:44-02:28]: Pablo introduces embargoed info and sets the stage.
• UNC Ban & Family Concerns – [04:14-05:28]: Jordan banned from football building; concerns from Belichick’s inner circle.
• Relationship Timeline and Age Reveal – [07:12-14:09]: Piecing together their initial meeting and Jordan’s age.
• Internal Politics & Power Shift – [19:12-21:56]: Jordan’s increasing control, reality TV aspirations, sabotage of the Hard Knocks deal.
• Commercial Shoot Incident – [22:14-25:00]: The bikini "hard launch" debacle.
• Inner Circle Inaction – [27:19-29:25]: The "yes men" dynamic and lack of intervention.
• Hot Mic Mishap – [29:25-30:33]: Unintentional airing of candid comments on set.
• Mom’s Provocative Store, Community Ties, and ED Scandal – [38:23-44:22]: The Toys of Eros overview, the local scandal, and family politics.
• Reflection and Closing Thoughts – [44:53-48:57]: The panel unpacks lessons learned, implications for Belichick, and final commentary.

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Conclusion

This episode is a minutely-reported, often absurd, sometimes poignant snapshot of what happens when a football legend cedes personal and professional boundaries to someone with ambition but little experience, surrounded by a vacuum of honest feedback. Pablo and his panel grapple with issues of agency, power, generational difference, scandal, and the blurring of personal and public narratives—delivered with deadpan wit, skepticism, and a sense that, as with the “Jordon Rules,” the story may only be getting started.

Transcript

[Warren Goldfarb]

Palo.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm Pablo Torre, and this episode of Pablo Torre Finds out is brought to you by Remy Martin. 1738 Accord Royale. Exceptionally smooth cognac for all your game day festivities. Please drink responsibly because today we're going to find out what this sound is.

[Katie Nolan]

28,000-Year-Old dildo. That's what she calls Bill.

[Pablo Torre]

Right after this ad.

[DraftKings Announcer]

You're listening to DraftKings.

[Pablo Torre]

We gotta. We gotta get going here.

[Katie Nolan]

So real. Let me take these sunglasses off so I don't seem flippant about the subject matter. Your hair's voluminous today.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Okay, thank you for noticing. Well, I took a shower yesterday.

[Katie Nolan]

Shout out. Second day is the best day.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Shout out to showers.

[Pablo Torre]

We don't have time for this.

[Katie Nolan]

Start us cleanly.

[Pablo Torre]

Are we starting cleanly? Are we rolling? Pointing to the thing. We have been rolling. Very good.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Action.

[Pablo Torre]

We don't have time to banter.

[Katie Nolan]

Sorry. Why'd you invite me?

[Pablo Torre]

I made a terrible mistake, I now realize, by inviting you two specifically. But in front of you are papers with. With words on them that are warnings.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Words that are warnings.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Yours has more warnings than mine.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. Mine also says. Can I say the.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Because you can't be embargoed. Because you can't be trusted.

[Katie Nolan]

Exclusive with two underlines. Embargoed with stuff. Stars. That's. I think, probably because I have a podcast.

[Pablo Torre]

We have a timeline of exclusive information that is new breaking. No one else has broken it yet. I've been sitting on it for a long time.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. You guys were here the last time when we broke this story that in fact, Jordan Hudson, Bill Belichick's girlfriend, age 24, had insinuated herself into a Super bowl commercial with Ben Affleck and Matt Damon. This was a very conspicuous thing to us. And now maybe to everybody who is.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Watching this again, Matt Damon and Tom Brady don't have the height of a champion. We got a new squad. Dun King sequel. Afflecks and Belichick. Dun Kings. A little more spirit on the, you know, on the charge next time.

[Pablo Torre]

So Jordan right there, right next to Bill, next to Coach Belichick. To recap, she was the one who represented herself as Bill Belichick's agent. Katie Nolan, I believe, branded her accurately on the last episode as a momager. Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Prescient.

[Pablo Torre]

I have been thinking about that. Haunted by that. Because in the months since then, I've also been making more calls. And so when this stuff happened recently, I was at the bottom of the rabbit hole already. And everything I have found out from personally talking to 11 sources who have directly dealt with her.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Firsthand. I am here to say a couple of things to you guys. Number one is that I need to change the foremost policy of talking about Jordan Hudson, which is I'm going to start calling her Jordan.

[Katie Nolan]

Which is funny because I've noticed people online have started calling her Jordan. And I said Pablo led the charge. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

It's just now a real story.

[Katie Nolan]

Yes. Fairly fair. Agree with.

[Pablo Torre]

And when you talk to 11 people, I do want to demonstrate some, some open mindedness to the.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

That's as many. That's as many herbs and spices as there are, if I'm not mistaken.

[Katie Nolan]

Right. And that's. So that's the herbs and spice line. Once you hit that, you've hit the KFC threshold. That's right.

[Pablo Torre]

And so too, there are questions about how original is this recipe?

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Wow. Beautifully done.

[Katie Nolan]

It's like you guys have worked on that and I'm here to say they hadn't.

[Pablo Torre]

We absolutely haven't. But the recipe for this story is. There is some succession. There is some Dawson's Creek. There is certainly some Lifetime movie. The story of arguably the greatest coach in the history of not just football, but everything. And a couple of breaking news updates since what has happened publicly since we last gathered. Number one. Okay. Two sources at the University of North Carolina tell me that there has been a decision. It was made last week by the higher ups inside the athletic department that had hired Bill Belichick to be the highest paid public employee, not just coach, in the state of North Carolina at $10 million a year. And that decision was that Jordan Hudson is no longer allowed in the football building.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

She is not allowed on the football field. Quote. Don't think you'll be hearing much from Jordan moving forward.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Dang. Not in the building.

[Katie Nolan]

There's a little flippant. I, I'm, I feel like that is what is done with a distraction. And a team is within its rights to do that when it comes to external distractions.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Now, do we think maybe we know. I don't know if we know. Do we think this is like the athletic director at UNC being like, this is a problem, or do you think it's Bill going to the athletic director and being like, I would really love it if you said this was a problem.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh. Of like, oh, they said you can't come.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Yeah, I want.

[Katie Nolan]

I would love to have you there.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Oh, my God.

[Katie Nolan]

You're my cheerleader.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Who's got tarrier heels than you.

[Katie Nolan]

You're My cheerleader.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

You got to be there, baby. But for.

[Katie Nolan]

But they.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Donnie's on my back.

[Pablo Torre]

Bubba Cunningham.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Is that his name? Bubba Cunningham?

[Katie Nolan]

Bubba's Bubba.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

You know how Bubba can be.

[Katie Nolan]

Listen, Bubbas, it's. He's tough.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

I think Bubba's jealous. I wouldn't say it to him, but I think Bubba's jealous.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

That's my Bill Belichick impression.

[Katie Nolan]

That's really good.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

That's ours.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. The most animated he's ever been.

[Pablo Torre]

So the theory of why any of this happening is a relevant conversation that I'm gonna. I'm gonna ask you to put a pin in that.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

Because the second update is that Bill Belichick's family.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Oh.

[Pablo Torre]

Is extraordinarily concerned about what has transpired. One Belichick family source told me, quote, there is deep worry for how detrimental Jordan, North Carolina. But Bill's legacy, reputation, everything he has built and worked for over decades. End quote. In fact, the family has been digging into Jordan Hudson as well in a parallel way.

[Katie Nolan]

So they are. They are conducting research.

[Pablo Torre]

They are asking questions in a rabbit hole.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

They're shocking to 11 herbs and spices.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, might be understating the spiciness, honestly, at this point in terms of how this has gone behind the scenes, because number three.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, boy.

[Pablo Torre]

What I've been told is that Bill Belichick entrusted Jordan Hudson with the power to run his new media empire. Quote, jordan was my boss. To quote another. The level of cockiness to go along with the absence of resume is stunning. And the idea that Bill Belichick may not realize exactly the damage he's done to himself and certainly his legacy and also to his reputation as a coach. And so, yes, this will be a story about leadership and genius and privacy and discipline, and also, crucially, the illegal sale of injectable erectile dysfunction drugs.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Sorry, Wait, what did you say?

[Katie Nolan]

Sorry, What?

[Pablo Torre]

After the break.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Oh, my God.

[Katie Nolan]

Monetization is killing everything.

[Pablo Torre]

So how the did we get here, guys?

[Michael Cruz Kane]

How did we.

[Katie Nolan]

Pablo?

[Pablo Torre]

We started this off joking about Jordan. And late last month, Bill Belichick put on a tattered Navy sweatshirt and showed up to what I'm told is his old high school in Annapolis, Maryland, alongside his girlfriend, Jordan Hudson, who was, not coincidentally, wearing her own Navy sweatshirt.

[Katie Nolan]

No holes.

[Pablo Torre]

She also has been telling people that she picks out all of Bill's clothes for him.

[Katie Nolan]

Odd choice, then.

[Pablo Torre]

But the goal, as they show up together wearing Navy sweatshirts, is to promote Bill's new book titled the Art of Lessons from a Life in Football. And are you familiar With CBS Sunday Morning.

[Katie Nolan]

Mm.

[DraftKings Announcer]

Coach, thank you for doing this. You're probably thinking the same thing I was when I sat down with Bill Belichick. What's going on with this sweatshirt?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, you can see I've worn this.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

One for a while.

[DraftKings Announcer]

Do you remember how you got the cut here?

[Pablo Torre]

No.

[DraftKings Announcer]

Tattered and yes, often sleeveless. Belichick's signature look is part of his singular focus.

[Pablo Torre]

To be clear, CBS Sunday Morning, I am told, was trying to tell an extraordinarily positive story about how this coach's decision making could be a model actually for non football people too.

[Katie Nolan]

The clip that kind of went out and got the most attention was a clip of Jordan interrupting and seemingly inserting herself into the interview.

[DraftKings Announcer]

Jordan was a constant presence during our interview. You have Jordan right over there.

[Katie Nolan]

And the question she took the most issue with from that clip was they asked him.

[DraftKings Announcer]

Everybody in the world seems to be following this relationship. They've got an opinion about your private life. It's got nothing to do with them, but they're invested in it. How do you deal with that?

[Pablo Torre]

Never been too worried about what everybody else thinks. Just try to do what I feel like is best for me and what's right.

[Katie Nolan]

It was very softball like you are in a new relationship. We're seeing a different side of you. How did the two of you meet? Not talking about this, we're not talking about that.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

In addition to inserting herself, there also is an element of asserting herself. It feels like, it feels like it's not just like I'm in here to protect. It's also like the big dog is barking over here, just, just so you know, and the big dog's got her eyes on you. That's how it felt.

[Pablo Torre]

If you're a savvy PR person, a guard dog, even, like you're not trying to be on tape. And what I am told is that, yeah, the reports are true, that there is like a half hour more of Jordan Hudson giving hand signals to him during the interview. Kind of like a spy gate thing.

[Katie Nolan]

Honestly, a good PR person is not going, excuse me, hello, it's me. And inserting themselves. They're trying their best to smooth from afar. And they had an answer for that question.

[Pablo Torre]

But instead what is happening is that there are lots of theories all over the Internet that in fact Jordan Hudson is an only fans model, a call girl, some, something along those lines. Because why else would you not want to reveal the truth? What I can tell you is that from all of the people I've talked to, they Just think that Jordan Hudson, like her cover up, was worse than the non crime that happened. And in fact, to verify all of this, what I can tell you is that, yeah, that flight Boston to Palm Beach, 2021, a JetBlue flight. Belichick does fly commercial. He goes to hang out at the Golf Club of Jupiter. That's why he go to Palm Beach. At the time he was still with Linda Holiday, who was his 15 year girlfriend thereabouts, who was in her late 50s at the time. And Jordan was a philosophy major at Bridgewater State who was dating a much older man, whom we will meet later. But the date in question, the date in question was February 11, 2021. And we know this of course, because.

[Katie Nolan]

Bill Belichick signed what, the inside of her philosophy textbook or a psychology textbook, which one was it?

[Pablo Torre]

It was Deductive Logic by Harvard professor Warren Goldfarb. And there is the inscription February 2021. I will just call to your attention, of course, the Jordan. And if you just punch in even more on that second O, you might notice that it doesn't encounter number one. Bill Belichick knew that Jordan is spelled with two o's because why would you does the extra circle around what felt like clearly an A? And I believe that February 11, 2021 is also incredibly important here because in the attempt to like match all the timelines, because there's been lots of erroneous reporting, lots of seemingly very confusing timelines. February 11, 2021 is very important because of this other video that we found.

[Katie Nolan]

Jordan Hudson, 22, Hancock. Beautiful, if I may. Beautiful.

[Pablo Torre]

That was the first runner up of the Miss Main pageant last year. That was 2024.

[Katie Nolan]

First runner up is second place. Yes. That is just confirming from my brain.

[Pablo Torre]

Second place.

[Katie Nolan]

Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

That is correct. Hancock, Maine is her Hometown. That's population 2,466. But the detail I want to call your attention to just for the timeline here. Right. Is how old she says she is. So this pageant, I can tell you, was March 2024. Okay, so deductive logic time. She is 22 in March 2024. So in February 2021, when they met on that flight, using the powers of deductive logic, Jordan Hudson would then need to be how old? Michael Cruz Kane, who used to teach math.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

19.

[Pablo Torre]

Jordan Hudson, 19 years old. Bill Belichick was about to turn 69, I believe.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Nice. Sorry.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, I'm sorry.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

I'm sorry about that.

[Katie Nolan]

With the embargo.

[Pablo Torre]

You're the one who talked.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

I'm sorry, I didn't want to do it something that I did. I came from the center of the earth. I was a vessel for that. I, I, I. Can we take it out?

[Pablo Torre]

No, we're gonna le. But Jordan Hudson's age frequently has been miscalculated. Misreported. The LA Times last week had her at 21 years old at the time of their meeting. And one reason by the way and again, 19.

[Katie Nolan]

That's legal, right?

[Pablo Torre]

I'm just, I'm just trying to clarify the time.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Sure, by the law it's fine.

[Pablo Torre]

By the law it's fine to.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

But there are other man has other laws then those that are writ.

[Pablo Torre]

That I believe is also a philosophy textbook somewhere.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Yeah, absolutely. Signed by Bill Cower.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right. The, the reason I have been wondering though like why does this keep happening? Why does no one know? Does connect to another question I've been pondering that I want to ask you guys. Have you ever mistyped your own birth year?

[Katie Nolan]

Well, certain, I'm, I'm not that I remember specifically, but certainly I've mistyped everything.

[Pablo Torre]

The reason I ask that question is because this is a question that has been asked around the North Carolina football program and it has been asked because I've learned of an internal document that has been circulating around said program. And you may be familiar, like sometimes whether it's a school directory or let's say the wives and girlfriends of football coaches working at University of North Carolina. You fill out a directory, there's your address, there's an email, phone number, number of kids, their names and your birthday so that people can say happy birthday when it's time for your birthday. And Jordan Hudson put down her birthday on this document, I am told as April 2000.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

April 2000. So now we're, now we're getting a.

[Pablo Torre]

Little older or she did not put her accurate birthday.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay, so now we're back where we started. We don't really know.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, we know based on a preponderance of evidence that her actual birthday is April 2001.

[Katie Nolan]

So it seems like the reason she's so sensitive about the book thing is because they didn't think through the fact that he was clearly Talking to a 19 year old and now they're trying to cover that up.

[Pablo Torre]

That is a lot closer to what might be the Occam's razor of why there's another thing about it.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Wait, can I say the same thing? I was going to say it because I'm going to forget it. Yeah, I'm trying to picture either you're typing it or you're writing it. Right. If you're writing it, there's no way you write 00 instead of 0. 1.

[Pablo Torre]

Typed.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

So if you're typing it.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. It's just the same.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

But on your phone, the zero is not where the one is. It's not close to the one.

[Pablo Torre]

That is literally the argument that one of the sources that I spoke to at UNC pointed out. How the. Could you mistake a zero for a one?

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. You'd have to go out of your way on a crazy little detail on a keyboard. Yeah. And it's like you'd hit the same thing or hit the. Yeah. Oh, my goodness gracious.

[Pablo Torre]

So this specific mistake, quote, unquote, feels instructive.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

But wait, you could put zero. Maybe you could put zero twice.

[Pablo Torre]

You could put double zero.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Generously. Maybe you could. Maybe you double tapped it.

[Pablo Torre]

Anyway, this is just pointing out the presentation, the theater of what it is to allegedly be the first lady of UNC football. It's a real puzzle. Admittedly, it's a puzzle including for someone I would. I'd have to imagine like Harvard Professor Warren Goldfarb.

[Warren Goldfarb]

Warren G. I'm the Walter Beverly Piercek professor of Modern Mathematics and Mathematical Logic. And now you should add emeritus, because I've retired. Despite the title, I'm actually in the philosophy department, not the mathematics department.

[Pablo Torre]

Warren G. Did tell us that he is not familiar with deductive logic. His book Raising libidos in this way. But he did tell us.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Is this one of our 11?

[Katie Nolan]

Really asked him not.

[Pablo Torre]

He's not one of the 11, for the record.

[Katie Nolan]

Hey, sir, does your book tend to make people horny?

[Warren Goldfarb]

Now, of course, I don't know the details of exactly what happened, but presumably Bill Belichick had a seat on an airplane next to Jordan Hudson and she was reading the logic book. She was taking the class that my friend teaches at Bridgewater State.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Oh, I see.

[Katie Nolan]

Using your friend's book in your class.

[Pablo Torre]

He said, philosophers mount up.

[Katie Nolan]

Of course. Yes.

[Warren Goldfarb]

Doing strategy in football is just replete with all kinds of truth function, logic. If this happens, then we should do that. If that happens, we should do this. If this happens, but that doesn't happen, then we do this. That's all truth, functional logic. So either Belichick was interested to see that what he did more on intuition, and he was obviously very good at it. Right. What he did in the intuition was actually could be formalized, or it was just all old hat to him and he was just making conversation because she was a very beautiful young woman. Logic is too often derided as a dry subject, and I'm glad to see its romantic potential has finally been recognized.

[Pablo Torre]

The illogic of this whole thing, though, right? Why is she so protective of this question? Why is she doing this? There is, I think, in our reporting, as Katie deduced, the whole, like, let's not draw attention to the fact that I was 19, he was almost 69. Legal though it may be, legal though it may be. But there's another theory, according to people who have dealt with her directly on matters of business, which is that she seems to be of a belief as she carves up Bill Belichick's brand, his life, into different buckets of monetization. And by the way, she is the person who inspired in a real way, the book that is at the heart of that CBS non promo she had read, I'm told Ray Dalio's book Principles like as an idea mill, as she's crediting the acknowledgments, she does come up with ideas like that book. But what the source has, has deduced is that she may be saving exclusively any and all talk about their origin story, their relationship for a potential reality show.

[Katie Nolan]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, no. So you're saying that she. That she's protecting that information because it's in fact embargoed.

[Pablo Torre]

She is somebody who believes that an exclusive means exclusive. Like you can't talk about this anywhere else. This story is for a future theoretical project. That is the theory from people who have had to deal with her and the dealing with her. Right. When did this happen? When did she get control over Bill Belichick's new media empire? So you may recall the time that Bill Belichick got defenestrated from Katie Nolan's New England Patriots.

[Katie Nolan]

That's thrown out the window.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Do you think? I need you to tell me what.

[Katie Nolan]

Defenestrated is doing it for them.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

But finesse, Latin window, feminine noun. Let's go.

[Pablo Torre]

That window of time that Belichick had.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

A finestra of time, if you will.

[Pablo Torre]

Finestra of time that he didn't have football to fill. He had. I'm going to count them down. A podcast for Underdog Fantasy called Coach. He had Inside the NFL for the cw. He had appearances with Peyton Manning and various kinds. He had appearances on the Pat McAfee Show. And all this was kind of conspicuous given that, again, no one hated media more than that guy. And also, as he told multiple people, he never listened to a podcast before for.

[Katie Nolan]

But who among us not, not surprising us, makes him. Doesn't listen to him, you know, so.

[Pablo Torre]

He shows up at NFL Film Studios in Mount Laurel, New Jersey. All of these things I've mentioned are filmed there at the one place that he trusts as a media entity. It's the company that he grew up adoring and trusting. NFL Films. Right. Like, his dad was a coach. He is a football nerd. He has friends who've worked there for a very long time. The Hard Knocks thing, which is, for those not familiar, the reality show where you get cameras all over a football building. Typically, an NFL team was going to be, for the first time, a college team. It was going to be Chapel Hill, North Carolina. It was going to be this program, and it was going to be produced by NFL Films. So this is again, the organization where all of these shows had been taped. This was Belichick's sort of like, comfort zone. And so when you get the news that Jordan Hudson, and this is something that I've confirmed myself, was instrumental in that deal blowing up because she was trying to assert control over the negotiations, this is now how we arrive at a point at which Bill Belichick's insulation from these media things has absolutely just become a thing he has to deal with.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

And I think if the other thing about it is, if UNC struggles, this is gonna. This is only gonna get way, way, way, way worse.

[Pablo Torre]

And at the beginning of this, as of the summer of 2024, Jordan Hudson was not in charge of everything. But there was one famous story that was witnessed by, I am told, dozens of people, including freelance contractors, who were hired to work on the set for a seven figure scripted commercial. And yes, we're talking about another expensive commercial shoot here. This is Belichick. Just talk to me, Double B. Tyrese, what's good with these whiteouts? He's going to get in the end zone.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

No doubt about that. My man William. Answer the phone, Billy B.

[Pablo Torre]

My man.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Cam, how's QB1 looking?

[Pablo Torre]

It's looking more like QB3.

[Katie Nolan]

My body rejects that.

[Pablo Torre]

What I am told by multiple people among the dozens who witnessed the shooting of this is that what happened that day on set was, quote, highly unusual. Jordan Hudson, who was at the time, like a person they kind of heard about, but again, this is last summer. Yeah, not, not, not quite. The entity that we know now, nothing close, had arrived on set and started immediately pitching herself for a role that had not been discussed in this scripted seven figure commercial shoot that would also serve as, quote, the hard launch of their relationship. And she told everybody to hold on, actually, as this idea developed in her head. Because what she did was she left set, came back sometime later, and she was wearing a yellow polka dot bikini.

[Katie Nolan]

Shut up.

[Pablo Torre]

And a sun hat.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

She would just be by the pool with him. That was the idea.

[Pablo Torre]

All right. Were you.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

I pitched this to her. She left in the room. She called me. She was like, what do you think would be a good. And I was like, get that. Get that. Keenie on, girl said, hey, you were.

[Katie Nolan]

In severance for 30 seconds. I was just wondering.

[Pablo Torre]

Whoa, whoa.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

40 seconds.

[Pablo Torre]

Think about. Think about the scene, though, right? So she shows up, she's wearing a bikini. She's walking around. Bill Belichick, if you're wondering, betrays no emotional change as this is happening.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Sure.

[Pablo Torre]

And everybody around is like. Again, this is like as she called him on set multiple times. This is a star. She kept on calling him a star.

[Katie Nolan]

That's why you're paying him a lot of money. We're even pretending to listen to you because of the star. How much? He's a star in our eyes.

[Pablo Torre]

So that part, right. The. How do they manage this question. Because she's insisting the hard launch be good for the commercial. And Belichick was going along with it. He's like, of course. I. Yeah, this. This seems totally normal, like a thing you would do. And the crew had to figure out what the. Do you do now.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Oh, no.

[Pablo Torre]

So the premise of the ad, according to my sources, was Jordan Hudson by the pool, sunning herself in a lounge chair, trying to get Bill's attention. That kind of a thing.

[Katie Nolan]

She added, like, script idea. It wasn't just. She'd be in the background of the shot. We saw.

[Pablo Torre]

She. Motivation.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

Taping for the actual commercial was done by then. And so what they did was they filmed something.

[Katie Nolan]

No.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Oh, my God.

[Pablo Torre]

That one source told me, oh, this is embarrassing. May have involved a camera that may not have even been on.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, my God, this is so embarrassing. They. It's like when you give a kid a. A controller for a video game and you play it and you go, you're doing great. Oh, my God.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

You're driving the car.

[Katie Nolan]

Look at you go.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Oh, my God. Zero intention of using it.

[Katie Nolan]

I got goosebumps. That is my. That's a real nightmare.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

It hurts me.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm embarrassed.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

I feel. It makes me feel for her.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. Unfortunately. I know.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

I think the villain up to this point in this particular story, I am like, oh, gosh.

[Katie Nolan]

I. I hope that footage is destroyed. I hope that if there was any. I Hope there isn't any. And if it is, I hope it was destroyed. I. That's.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Please don't have that footage right now.

[Katie Nolan]

Please, Pablo.

[Pablo Torre]

And no, I don't have that.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, thank God. I was. I believed him.

[Pablo Torre]

I. I looked. Oh, God, of course you did.

[Katie Nolan]

I wouldn't. I wouldn't be able to look. It'd be like the salt. Salt bath, whatever that scene was, that.

[Pablo Torre]

You guys don't have to. Oh, my God. How do you have.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

How did you do?

[Pablo Torre]

So not understanding how sets work, how cameras work, how microphones work, that's a through line so far from CBS to this. And what happens, though, as everybody on set is watching this and the people who work on these shows are watching this in this one central location where the mountain has come to Muhammad and everybody goes and, like, film stuff with Bill Belichick, the newly crowned media king of football who cannot get a job in the NFL. One source told me this, quote, I watched her power grow inch by inch. I can take this, I can take this. I can take this. And the question then is, like, why wasn't anyone in the way? Like, how. Why was the power vacuum so, so empty? And the inner circle of Bill Belichick is a fascinating thing. So it used to be managed. His PR used to be managed by this guy, Berge Najarian. He was hand. All of his personal pr. He was the guy who, as Bill Belichick, was very hard to deal with. He was very easy to work with, but ultimately they said nothing. And that was. That was a good relationship. That was a safe relationship. He's now, however, the chief of staff at Boston College, leaving behind a group with whom Bill Belichick still has a standing pre dawn phone call every single day. You got Matt Patricia, the former defensive coordinator of the Patriots and also briefly, the offensive coordinator. That did not go any better.

[Katie Nolan]

It's not.

[Pablo Torre]

We can also mention that Josh McDaniels is also in this group. Also Mike Lombardi, longtime friend of Bill Belichick, former Patriots assistant, now GM at unc. And these are yes men. So I just want you to imagine being Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick is somebody who has been for decades incredibly insulated from having to live anything resembling a normal life. He has been a coach, he has been in charge. And Matt Patricia, as was described to me, like, this is, quote, a doormat. That's mean as well. And I kind of feel bad about that. But these guys, like, are watching Jordan come in and they're like, eye rolling. They're kind of like nudging each other is the description. But they're not telling Bill, they're not telling Coach, this is a bad idea. So she comes in and out, alphas, everybody. And that's how, in a very short amount of time, in a period of months, they watch her take power. And so simultaneous to this, Bill Belichick, to the people he's doing these media projects with, is repeatedly calling Jordan brilliant. He is telling them, you need to hire Jordan. He told one of these media companies, I am told, that they should hire her for a six figure salary as part of their deal with him to make the show in question. But you can imagine what that work environment was like where she was on every single call, every single email. They had to go through her. She ran his life. Media partners had to go to her to get to him. They commuted together all the time from Boston to New Jersey. She was calling people into meetings and connecting back to the CBS interview. She again, didn't seem clear on how cameras and hot mics worked. And I say that because in another infamous story that circulated among dozens of people on set at the NFL film studio, Bill Belichick, Katie Nolan, you can imagine this, right? He's wearing a mic. She is whispering to him.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, no.

[Pablo Torre]

Off camera somewhere.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Oh, God.

[Pablo Torre]

The problem is that there are these things in television called control rooms. And at NFL Films headquarters, as Bill Belichick and Jordan Hudson are mic'd up, they proceed to hear them talking about all sorts of people. They are talking about graphics. They're talking so much about the graphics people. They are not aware that dozens of people can hear them talk.

[Katie Nolan]

How, Jordan, how are you not aware? You need just a bit. Everybody knows this trick. How are you not aware?

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Let me, let me also. Okay, here's what I'm gonna say. I think this is a principle of my life. Talking behind people's back is totally fine. It's. I, I encourage it.

[Katie Nolan]

I actually believe there's studies that have shown it's like, important for human society.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Okay, so now there's, now there's, now there's that. So I think that's total. I think that's. I think you should talk about every attack, all the people, but everything goes out the window. If they hear you. If they hear you, it's all different. It's a whole different ball game.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, they heard them.

[Katie Nolan]

That's pretty tough. That's really tough. And that, and you're saying that's on and that didn't get out.

[Pablo Torre]

Even though they're not gotten out yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

Are we ever gonna go back to the part where nobody around Bill spoke up? Because I do feel that's a neglected part of this story in that we do seem to love, especially as an online public. We love a woman to put everything on. And I'm not in any way saying that Jordan is innocent or anything in all of this. It does seem like a number of people were in a position that could have gone, hey, this isn't cool. But they were so much more interested in their access to this power that they let it get really bad and are now, like, crazy. Right. She's nuts. And you're like, yeah, you could have said something a long time ago and helped your supposed friend by telling him the truth of what was going on here, and now you're leaving it to us.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

But I would say that is. It's tricky because even, like, have you ever had a friend who had a significant other that you were like, oh, boy. Yes, this person is trash.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

I would say, in my opinion, I'm like, I'm just gonna wait till they break up, and that's. That's what I'm gonna say.

[Katie Nolan]

And I'm. And I will say, self awareness. I am on the other end of the spectrum. That's good. I have made people very mad at me.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Maybe it's not good by.

[Katie Nolan]

Yes, by the other end of the spectrum.

[Pablo Torre]

They're here today.

[Katie Nolan]

Bring them out. No, it's. I have a tendency to be a little honest in ways I don't notice, are uncouth until they're. They've been said.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

It happens.

[Katie Nolan]

I think it's a. Is to say. I. I don't know how to tell you this, and I might not tell it to you right. But I don't think what's going on here is on the up and up. I would say at least that I.

[Pablo Torre]

I will safely say that Bill Belichick's inner circle could have used the Katie Nolan.

[Katie Nolan]

Well, and I've been saying that for years.

[Pablo Torre]

It's true. The parallel here that I imagine is, like, in succession, you know, the council of just, like, people who are just, like, sucking up to Logan Roy, who are there because they're looking for, like, the scraps of power that fall off of his plate. That is a lot of what I've. What I've had described to me. And I am trying always to, like, balance how I don't have Jordan Hudson's perspective because she wouldn't talk to us, but the quotes that you hear from the people who work with her and again, I think, look, I, I, I, I, I just, I, I don't know how to diplomatically convey the following quote from one of the people who work on these shows, quote, unquote. She is the worst person I've ever met on earth, and I've worked with multiple sociopaths.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, boy. Am I allowed to know the gender? I can't, of course, know the gender of who said that, but it does inform.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

But I do, I do wonder if there are any of the gender of the people of our 11 spices, if any of those spices is a, is a woman.

[Pablo Torre]

Spice Girl, Ginger. I can tell you that in unquantifiable number among the 11 are in fact.

[Katie Nolan]

Ginger or cinnamon or, or even baby.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Baby. Even baby. Can you read that quote one more time? I started laughing at the word worst. Yeah, didn't hear the rest of it.

[Pablo Torre]

She is the worst person I've ever met and I've worked with multiple sociopaths.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

I mean, that's pretty, that's pretty bad.

[Pablo Torre]

They still fear her today. Oh, my gosh. This is a lot of. There's so much fear in this story.

[Katie Nolan]

What is, what are you so afraid of?

[Pablo Torre]

I suppose a question if you are in the family of one Bill Belichick or somebody who was invested in what's going on here would be okay. Who else has Jordan Hudson sort of been with recently? What's her type? What's her deal romantically? And look, I, I don't, I don't know all the answers to that. I just know that there is this guy, Joshua Zuckerman, dudes in his mid-60s. According to his LinkedIn, he is the CEO of, wait for it. A geriatrics facility in Cape Cod.

[Katie Nolan]

Huh.

[Pablo Torre]

Is relevant because Joshua L. Zuckerman told TMZ the following quote, she is wise beyond her years, much more than any 20 something I've ever met in my life. The narrative about her character is not fair to her. End quote. And then also separately, I wish these Internet trolls and paparazzi would leave her alone and everyone else alone and let them live their lives, end quote. On Twitter, he under the name Joshua Zuckerman. Not a ton of tweets, but one of them is a reply to Ann Coulter and It is from November 7, 2017, and is simply, you go, girl.

[Katie Nolan]

I was just gonna say you go girl as a joke. That's what it says.

[Pablo Torre]

It is literally that I almost jumped.

[Katie Nolan]

In and went, go girl. That's crazy. That's very funny. I'm so sorry.

[Pablo Torre]

The place where he is very active, though, is vivino.com.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

What is that?

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, no.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm so glad you asked.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, no.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Is it like.

[Katie Nolan]

Is it for old souls?

[Pablo Torre]

Million users, Vivino?

[Michael Cruz Kane]

65 million.

[Pablo Torre]

65 million.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

My gosh.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm now only appreciating the claim that you're spotlighting.

[Katie Nolan]

That's a lot of people.

[Pablo Torre]

But it is the world's largest wine app and marketplace, empowering people everywhere to enjoy wine to the fullest.

[Katie Nolan]

Not what I thought it was.

[Pablo Torre]

He has written 1208 wine reviews.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

The man likes his wine and.

[Katie Nolan]

And good for him. And he's of age plenty.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And I would like Michael to turn over his packet and help the audience understand. Pablo, what some of these reviews are this producing.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Okay, here we go. Joshua Rated this wine 5 stars. This review says, where are you, my love? Big hugs. Big, full body, fruit forward but complex, earthy flavors. Blackberries, Big expressions of mushroom, BlackBerry, black pepper. Earth. Young but showing its strength.

[Katie Nolan]

Yikes.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Okay, but wait, this actually sounds even more like talk to text, because where are you, my love? Big hugs. Almost sounds like he's talked to texting someone. And then talk to text. This.

[Pablo Torre]

This is an extraordinarily generous read. Okay, what this guy's deal is?

[Katie Nolan]

What's his deal?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, let's find out.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Keep going.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, no.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Okay, this is the terrace gouda.

[Warren Goldfarb]

Oh.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Rosal a 2020 rias baixas espana. Sorry. Absolutely delicious. Complex, Light, citrus, lemon, lemon flower, lemongrass, citrus. Oh, my God. What a beautiful, complex flavor. It's really special. Fresh and expressive. Citrus, pear, grapefruit, green apple, lemon, honey, honeydew, honeysuckle. Oh, my God, this is so lovely. Oh, my God. Some mineral tones. Lovely.

[Katie Nolan]

Is he all right? Oh, my God.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

That's. Oh, that's gonna be five stars.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, my God.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

This one here is.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, can I just point out, it felt like he was.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, my God. Drinking it while he was saying it.

[Pablo Torre]

Felt like he was that wide.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay, Pablo. Okay. I don't think he was. That's alleged.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

This one. The vintner of this, I believe, is Trump. Trump Meritage 2019.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

I'm surprised by the 4.0 ratings he himself gave it. This is a good table wine, a good value wine. Not overly complex. Blah fruit, BlackBerry, black cherry, pepper. Flavors are flat, non expressive. As I said, a good table wine. Love Trump, though. Enjoy.

[Katie Nolan]

Just in case this, no offense to my guy, I mean, why is everybody including me giving it four stars?

[Pablo Torre]

I don't think we needed to pull the big hugs. So Joshua Zuckerman her ex. One part of the political spectrum, as very clearly self professed. The other part of the political spectrum, though, is where you might find Lee Hudson.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

Lee Hudson is Jordan's mom. Lee Hudson has a job in Provincetown, Massachusetts.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

P town.

[Katie Nolan]

P town, Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

What is P town known for?

[Katie Nolan]

Gay. Very LGBTQ friendly.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Okay.

[Katie Nolan]

Very lgbtq plus friendly.

[Pablo Torre]

This is where I would like Katie Nolan to flip over her. Her packet. We sent a reporter to Provincetown, Massachusetts. Lee Hudson professionally helped run a place called Toys of Eros.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Hell yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

Lee, play safe. Exclamation point. Free condoms.

[Pablo Torre]

Our reporter tells us that Jordan's mom mostly works remotely, isn't around a lot. She has been declining to comment on any of this, but our reporter did take a tour of this store and its museum.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

And Katie Nolan, I would like you to reveal the exclusive reporting that we've handed you for this episode.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay, so what I'm looking at here is a. It says there's a sign on the entrance door. I'm looking at a photo of the entrance door, and it appears to have a sign on it. And the sign reads, quote, In June, the U. S. Supreme court declared that any business may openly discriminate against their patrons. In response, toys of Eros will no longer sell rings to humans who feel entitled to make choices for bodies other than their own. Toys of Eros will no longer sell anal plugs to people who support the burning of books. Toys of Eros will no longer sell dildos to actual dildos wearing maga hats. Please note. Drag queens, daddy bearsuckers, Bulldikes. I don't want to say that one f slurs trans folks, muff divers, non binary gender, and in general, queers of any and all sort. And their enlightened allies, both capitalized E A will always and forever be welcome at Toys of Erosion.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Hell yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

I love that.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, wait, I flipped ahead. Sorry, I'm not supposed to flip ahead.

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Toys of Heroes. That's the sign on the door.

[Katie Nolan]

That's right.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, so we walk in and what.

[Katie Nolan]

Do you see in what room? Informative plaques about penis sheaths made of gourds and worn by the tribesmen of New Guinea. The museum also contains historical artifacts such as the electric cage, which you can see here. My God.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

So just. That feels very rudimentary.

[Pablo Torre]

A couple of the visuals on this kind of feels like it's some medical tape and slinky and a can.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

And I would describe that as a borderline loose battery.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, that's just dangling and like A cage. A Slinky.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

In the. In the frame there appears to be a little more high. A higher quality version of whatever this is. Yeah, but the one that's on the disembodied person is troubling to look at.

[Katie Nolan]

This is from around 1945, just to place this in time for you.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Okay, so we're World War II era.

[Katie Nolan]

That's right.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

That's important.

[Katie Nolan]

It used electric shocks to prevent masturbation and wet dreams. I would say we weren't at a place with electricity by then. That I'd be ready to do this. You know, I'd be like, you know, Know what? We basically haven't figured it out.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Just feels like at this, at this point, you know, it's not going to work, whatever this is. Oh, this?

[Katie Nolan]

Like it might work in that you might lose your dick and then you can't jerk it.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't know, guys. Those wires seem pretty.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

It just feels like the second you're like, you know, look, David's been masturbating so much. We need to create a device. It doesn't. There's nothing's going to stop David.

[Katie Nolan]

Right, David?

[Michael Cruz Kane]

David's donut, the Slinky.

[Katie Nolan]

Last but not least, a prehistoric 28,000 year old dildo made from camel dung we had to put in our. That's crazy.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Hang on. The fellas are using these things too.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay, thank you. You're right. Actually, that does make a lot more sense. I am so, so sorry. After saying I was an ally, how dare I?

[Pablo Torre]

How dare you disrespect one of the hundreds of phalluses made of stone, leather, bone and dung that have been found during excavations.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

A dung dong, if you will.

[Katie Nolan]

Dung dong.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Ditch dung dong.

[Katie Nolan]

Well, that's something.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

I mean, honestly.

[Katie Nolan]

And that's just sort of where it belongs anyway. So I'm kind of just putting it back.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Exactly.

[Katie Nolan]

Think about it. Honestly, this was a much needed release. I'm so glad we're not talking about the other stuff for just a second now.

[Pablo Torre]

So you mention the technological evolution of such devices. I guess it's now time for us to talk about the aforementioned injectable erectile dysfunction drugs.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, no.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Oh, really?

[Katie Nolan]

Wait, can I make a quick joke? 28,000-year-old dildo. That's what she calls Bill.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Nice. Really nice.

[Pablo Torre]

For the YouTube audience, we are high fiving that.

[Katie Nolan]

They heard it, they knew, they felt it.

[Pablo Torre]

Jordan's mom in 2017. I guess I have to describe this as a legitimate local scandal.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Well, in. In. Where, where are we? Where Are we again?

[Pablo Torre]

We're P Town. We're in P Town.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Yeah, P Town.

[Pablo Torre]

We're on Cape Cod, and we're talking about free, unlicensed demonstrations of the erectile dysfunction drug, which I am reliably informed is pronounced Trimix.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Oh, Trimix.

[Pablo Torre]

Problem with trying Trimix in this unlicensed way is that it's not exactly legal. And Jordan's mom was the business manager for the store at the time. You will not be surprised to learn at this point in our episode that to an emergency meeting of the Board of health.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And one of the board members, according to a readout of the meeting, expressing outrage that the store owner has made no attempt to address the board. It is total disregard for the Board of health. She thinks the store should be shut down.

[Katie Nolan]

You shouldn't be injecting anything in anybody without a license.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

I would think in general. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

The House position, a Pablo Tor finds out for the record, is that we are not judging. We are just presenting information, that's all.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

We are absolutely neutral reporter. We're like the Walter Cronkites of this.

[Pablo Torre]

The Walter Cronkites of injectable erectile dysfunction drugs. What did we find out, guys? As we try to figure out what all of this means, who is responsible? What do we feel for.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

I would say that I found out that Jordan Hudson is a full person with a backstory, and that, you know, it brings to mind that ancient saying, be kind for everyone is fighting a hard battle. And I don't know. I didn't know. I didn't really even think about her deal. There's another quote, another quote actually brought to mind by this, which is every marriage, every relationship is a foreign country. Diane Sawyer said that on the O Network, and it really stuck. It really stuck with me.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

And so, like, there is a part of me that looks at this and is like, look, man, if I were watching it in a movie or reading it in a book and I knew that these were, like, fictional characters, I'd be like, something is up here. But they're two real people. He's an exceptionally smart guy. Maybe not in every aspect of his life, but at least in some part of his life, he's brilliant. Maybe two people are getting what they want, and who cares? They're both getting what they want.

[Pablo Torre]

Do we believe, for instance, what Bob Kraft, the owner of the Patriots, said, as quoted in Seth Wickersham's really good book about the Patriots? He's an idiot savant. Which is to say you can be a savant. You can be a genius in football, but outside of it, we're sort of testing for the first time what that genius gets you when you are not surrounded by things that you know and have known for decades.

[Katie Nolan]

I learned and I probably already knew. So I guess I feel like I had confirmed for me just how many people are willing to turn the other way on anything and be completely emotionally dishonest with their friend if their friend is powerful and can in some way provide something for them or at least like keep them close to power.

[Pablo Torre]

My take at the end of this is mostly that every disaster you've chronicled seems extraordinarily self inflicted. It seems like a series of cell phones and also. Cell phones.

[Katie Nolan]

I was gonna say cell phones.

[Pablo Torre]

Both cell phones. Chronicling cell phones.

[Katie Nolan]

Whoa. That. Real eyes, real eyes, real lies.

[Pablo Torre]

Damn. And I say that because I think there's a lot of a very young person. And by the way, Silicon Valley is full of such people, right? Very ambitious people with no sense of unintended consequences.

[Katie Nolan]

None.

[Pablo Torre]

This is a very familiar prodigy when it comes to the study of power. The real estate she took, she grabbed. And the thing that Jordan Hudson considers one of the worst case scenarios here as a result of the CBS disaster, which again, felt entirely preventable if one were more strategic or knowledgeable about the industry. A parallel through line through so many of the anecdotes that we have reported is that she has been very concerned, to the point of explicitly telling Bill Belichick and others that this whole disaster, this whole episode at this point, honestly, is actively undermining her chances to win the Miss Main competition.

[Katie Nolan]

And if you win Miss Maine, what do you get?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, she was a runner up last year.

[Katie Nolan]

Surely a sash.

[Pablo Torre]

She is trying to win that sash this year.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, the thing starts tomorrow. And if you want to twist in the next development in this script, I just want to point out that one of the contestants she is competing against happens to be a trans woman. And I think they have more votes than Jordan Hudson.

[Katie Nolan]

I assume you're jumping ahead to the next step. Whereas if she doesn't win, this could turn into some sort of political stance.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm just saying.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, I don't have the patience for that chapter if that's where we're going. Same way I feel about Stephen A. Smith potentially running for president. I'm jumping off the roof of my building.

[Pablo Torre]

You're saying you're not get to this. You're not looking forward to future Defense Secretary Jordan Hudson?

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, God.

[Pablo Torre]

In the words of a very wise man on social media.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, boy.

[Michael Cruz Kane]

Something bad's about to happen.

[Katie Nolan]

This could be anything. This could really go anyway.

[Pablo Torre]

You go, girl.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, my God.

[Pablo Torre]

Pablo Torre Finds out is produced by Walter Abaroma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Dawig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, neely Loman, Rob McRae, Rachel Miller, Howard Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, Chris Tominiello and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RG Systems. Our sound design by NGW Post. Our theme song, as always, is by John Bravo. And we will talk to you next time.