The Journalist vs. The Interviewer, with Adam Friedland

Summary

Pablo Torre Finds Out – Episode Summary: "The Journalist vs. The Interviewer, with Adam Friedland"

Release Date: August 15, 2025

In this engaging episode of "Pablo Torre Finds Out", host Pablo Torre sits down with his friend and fellow podcaster, Adam Friedland, to explore the nuanced differences between journalism and interviewing. The conversation delves deep into Adam's journey from co-hosting the comedy podcast "Cometown" to developing his own interview-centric show, examining interview techniques, the evolving landscape of media, and the portrayal of sports icons in modern journalism.

---

Transition from "Cometown" to a Talk Show

Adam Friedland recounts the evolution of his podcasting career, transitioning from co-hosting the comedic "Cometown" to creating a more interview-focused show. This shift was influenced by Nick Mullin, who encouraged Adam to transform from the "least popular guy in Cometown" into a "public intellectual, Dick Cavett-esque talk show host."

Adam Friedland [03:29]: "We changed the show... What if we made the least popular guy in Cometown into a public intellectual, Dick Cavett-esque talk show host?"

Pablo appreciates Adam’s dedication to this transformation, highlighting the sincerity and effort he observes in Adam’s current endeavors.

Pablo Torre [12:07]: "The show that you do now that I visited, it's... it's something that I love."

---

Defining Journalism vs. Interviewing

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around what constitutes journalism compared to interviewing. Pablo emphasizes that journalism serves the "public interest" and prioritizes accuracy and integrity, rooted in adamant fact-checking and ethical standards inherited from traditional newsroom hierarchies.

Pablo Torre [22:30]: "Journalism to you, how would you define it?... There are journalistic ethics, right?"

Adam reflects on his approach to interviewing, inspired by figures like Joe Rogan, but distinguishes his method from traditional journalism. He focuses on creating a relaxed environment to elicit genuine responses, often employing self-deprecation to disarm guests.

Adam Friedland [24:20]: "I can just self-deprecate... I'm just like... I'm not, but I can't attitude."

Pablo underscores the importance of serving the public interest as the core of journalism, contrasting it with Adam's more personality-driven interviewing style.

Pablo Torre [30:04]: "Journalism has a defined answer... the public interest. That's the real distinction."

---

Interview Techniques and Styles

Adam discusses his interview methodology, which avoids the adversarial stance of traditional high school debates. Instead, he seeks to create "conflict, verbal, rhetorical tension" organically, fostering a conversational atmosphere where guests feel comfortable sharing openly.

Adam Friedland [32:18]: "You did not try to high school debate him... without doing it in the way that a high school debater would."

Pablo commends Adam for his ability to ask compelling questions without imposing authority, allowing for more authentic and insightful interactions.

Pablo Torre [25:44]: "I feel like asking really good questions, which I think you do."

---

The Evolving Landscape of Media and Sports Fandom

The conversation shifts to the impact of social media on journalism and sports fandom. Both hosts lament the shift from team-based to individual-centric fandom, noting that young audiences today are more inclined to follow individual players rather than entire teams.

Adam Friedland [35:25]: "Kids today are player fans... like LeBron can go to... like a Benson Boone concert... LeBron would have gotten killed."

They discuss how this individual focus affects the portrayal of sports figures, making their personal lives and vulnerabilities more accessible and subject to public scrutiny.

Pablo Torre [36:10]: "That's how kids are apparently demographically trending."

---

Portrayal of Sports Icons in Media

Pablo and Adam delve into the complex narratives surrounding legendary sports figures like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, and Tiger Woods. They explore how media representations have humanized these icons, revealing their personal struggles and triumphs beyond the athletic arena.

Adam Friedland [43:55]: "Michael's like, they're going to give you everything and they're going to take it away."

Pablo highlights a poignant moment from a documentary directed by his friend, where Kobe Bryant shares a heartfelt conversation with Michael Jackson, emphasizing the emotional depth of sports journalism.

Pablo Torre [44:53]: "Michael shows him the smooth... explains the inspiration for Smooth Criminal."

---

Attempt to Define Journalism with Tony Kornheiser

In a humorous and meta twist, Adam attempts to contact Tony Kornheiser to get his take on defining journalism. While the call connects with Tony's voicemail, Adam and Pablo reflect on the challenges of seeking authoritative definitions in a media landscape dominated by personality-driven content.

Adam Friedland [54:18]: "I'm with Pablo right now, and I just wanted to say, what is... What is journalism?"

Though the call does not result in a direct interaction, it serves as a narrative device to underscore their exploration of journalism's essence.

---

Insights and Conclusions

The episode concludes with reflections on the distinct paths of journalism and interviewing. Pablo reiterates the importance of serving the public interest and maintaining ethical standards, while Adam emphasizes the value of authenticity and connection in interviews. Together, they acknowledge the evolving nature of media consumption and the need for adaptability in both fields.

Pablo Torre [30:35]: "Fundamentally, if you like... stupid to get smart."

Adam Friedland [33:24]: "More people are, like, Rogan's probably getting 10 times more people than Anderson Cooper every day."

---

Notable Quotes

• Pablo Torre [22:30]: "Journalism to you, how would you define it?... There are journalistic ethics, right?"

• Adam Friedland [24:20]: "I can just self-deprecate... I'm just like... I'm not, but I can't attitude."

• Adam Friedland [35:25]: "Kids today are player fans... like LeBron can go to... like a Benson Boone concert... LeBron would have gotten killed."

• Pablo Torre [30:35]: "Fundamentally, if you like... stupid to get smart."

---

Conclusion

This episode of "Pablo Torre Finds Out" offers a thoughtful examination of the roles of journalism and interviewing in today's media-saturated environment. Through candid dialogue and personal anecdotes, Pablo and Adam provide listeners with insights into effective interviewing techniques, the portrayal of sports legends, and the shifting dynamics of public interest and media consumption.

Whether you're a podcast enthusiast, budding journalist, or sports fan, this episode presents valuable perspectives on navigating and understanding the intricate world of media and interviews.

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Follow Pablo Torre on YouTube, Instagram, X, and subscribe to his newsletter for more insightful episodes.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're going to find out what this sound is. Let's say our value premise on three 1, 2, 3 is justice.

[Adam Friedland]

Just kidding.

[Pablo Torre]

Right after this ad.

[Unknown]

Look, every football game is a grind. And if you're like Dan and the crew, you know there's no such thing as one size fits all. Your sleep should be just as custom as coach's game plan. That's where sleep number comes in. You get to call your own plays. Softer, firmer, cooler, warmer. Your side, your comfort. Change it whenever you want. No more feeling stuck like a busted play. And for all the late night fights over the thermostat, climate series cools up 20 times faster than the competition. True temp bedding kicks heat and humidity to the sidelines so you can actually stay chill all night long. Bottom line, Sleep number is like having a sleep coach in your corner adjusting to you all night. Because your best game starts with the right rest. Why choose a sleep number? Smart bed so you can sleep just the way that you like. The only bed that lets you make each side firmer or softer whenever you like. Your sleep number setting. Sleep number's biggest sale of the year is here. All beds on sale up to 50% off. The limited edition smart bed limited time exclusively at a sleep number store near you. Sleep number official sleep and wellness partner of the NFL. See store or sleepnumber.com for details.

[Pablo Torre]

Support for this podcast and the following message comes from America's Navy. The Navy offers new graduates, hands on training and experience in careers like computer science, aviation and medicine. Plus education and sign on bonuses. Parents help your grads start their career [e-mail].

[Adam Friedland]

How'S your summer been? Good?

[Pablo Torre]

It's good. It's good, man.

[Adam Friedland]

You've been working the whole time? Yeah, yeah, I just finally took a.

[Pablo Torre]

Break, I was gonna say. But you're.

[Adam Friedland]

You're.

[Pablo Torre]

You're in the midst of like prepping your Frost Nixon.

[Adam Friedland]

Well, I had Frost yesterday. Oh, I had the millennial congressman Frost. You know him? Maxwell Frost.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, that's. That's a real thing.

[Adam Friedland]

That boy a freak. He elected 25 the first year you can get elected.

[Pablo Torre]

I just googled him. I recognize this person.

[Adam Friedland]

He's the first young bull that like. Because they. The Democratic party like shanks any other child like young, you know, like Zoron.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Adam Friedland]

They don't want any new talent. They just want like, you know, so he.

[Pablo Torre]

He made Smeagol and whatever he made, he's their precious.

[Adam Friedland]

And I think that he's the one that snuck. They got through. He's like progressive. Oh, are we, Are we on the show?

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

We're going.

[Pablo Torre]

Is that okay?

[Adam Friedland]

I didn't know. Do you. You did the sneak attack on me. Yeah, I did. Dude. I have. I have studio envy right now.

[Pablo Torre]

You. Hold on.

[Adam Friedland]

You came to me first and I'm like, voila, Pablo.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, it's a full on theater. You have a. You have a mid century showroom of theater.

[Adam Friedland]

This is the most gorgeous. You have 27 people behind the camera.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right. I feel like a multiracial rainbow coalition that we've assembled here to surround you.

[Adam Friedland]

Is it. Every single race is represented. The United Nations.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. DNA test would indicate.

[Adam Friedland]

You have the flags everywhere. We have a.

[Pablo Torre]

We have a rice cooker with a soccer ball in it.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, nice. Can we restart?

[Pablo Torre]

Mostly what I do.

[Adam Friedland]

Can we restart? So welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. My guest today, Pablo Torre, Adam Freeland here. We're like, We're. We're quite good friends. We're coming out of the closet as friends today.

[Pablo Torre]

You. You did something when I left your studio.

[Adam Friedland]

No, I've been holding it in the whole time.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't know if you even caught this. Cause I did. And I was like, is it embarrassing? Are you embarrassing?

[Adam Friedland]

No, no, no.

[Pablo Torre]

You just said. You said on the way out. I was in there. You were premiering the Sarah Jessica Parker episode, which was.

[Adam Friedland]

Okay, so you're like, as I said, the president of girls. So. Or like, you're like, you know, you're the number one. You're the reluctant leader. Yes. Father of the country. So I just want to ask you, as your majesty, your highness, Mom. What the answer is to some questions I have about girls. Okay. Okay. So when they say, take these fries away from me, are you supposed to physically do it or do they like, do they say they taste good? Oh, I don't know what to do. Yeah, fabulous.

[Pablo Torre]

Really? The peak. It's a hard thing to summit.

[Adam Friedland]

The peak is not nice.

[Pablo Torre]

Well.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, my God. Your peak. Well, your peak was the Frostnix over in la. Oh, sure. With the King of Boston.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right. Fair.

[Adam Friedland]

Okay, let's start again. Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out.

[Pablo Torre]

You told me on the way out, you're like, love you.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, I say I love you a lot.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. And I said, I.

[Adam Friedland]

It's. It's embarrassing. Oh, you have issues with that?

[Pablo Torre]

No, I just didn't know if this was. I was calibrating. Like, is that. Am I one of many People who he tells that to or did I just.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, I'm a hoe. Yeah. No, no, no.

[Pablo Torre]

What's your body count on the. I love you.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, my God. I'm Chamberlain. Yeah. Neville Chamberlain. Not Will. Ha ha ha. No, it slips out. Yeah, it slips out.

[Pablo Torre]

Genuinely, I.

[Adam Friedland]

It's only to guys.

[Pablo Torre]

Felt great.

[Adam Friedland]

It's only to guys.

[Pablo Torre]

Great.

[Adam Friedland]

I can't say. You can't say. It's like a platonic female friend, but not anymore. Not anymore. Not in this. Not in this culture. Yeah, that's right. Thanks for having me, dude.

[Pablo Torre]

Dude. It's funny that you have been.

[Adam Friedland]

Can we call a Coronizer?

[Pablo Torre]

I will call Tony Kornheiser at the very end of the episode.

[Adam Friedland]

No way.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. And we'll see what happens. We'll just see what happens.

[Adam Friedland]

Will he pick up?

[Pablo Torre]

We'll find out. We will authentically find out.

[Adam Friedland]

I'm not gonna be able to stop thinking about it until the end of the episode.

[Pablo Torre]

Foreign is upon us. Saturday, college kickoffs. Sundays, of course, it's the pros. Surfside iced teas and lemonades plus vodka. They got you covered. And it is not a seltzer. How dare you suggest that? It's Surfside. It's 100 calories, 2 grams of sugar, no bubbles. So just ask for surfside. Wherever you stock up for tailgates or watch parties or post game hangs, you gotta be 21 plus, obviously. But please, please drink responsibly.

[Unknown]

Look, every football game is a grind. And if you're like Dan and the crew, you know there's no such thing as one size fits all. Your sleep should be just as custom as coach's game plan. That's where sleep number comes in. You get to call your own plays. Softer, firmer, cooler, warmer. Your side, your comfort. Change it whenever you want. No more feeling stuck like a busted play. And for all the late night fights over the thermostat, climate series cools up 20 times faster than the competition. True temp bedding kicks heat and humidity to the sidelines so you can actually stay chill all night long. Bottom line, sleep number is like having a sleep coach in your corner adjusting to you all night. Because your best game starts with the right rest. Why choose a sleep number? Smart bed so you can sleep just the way that you like. The only bed that lets you make each side firmer or softer whenever you like your sleep number. Setting sleep number's biggest sale of the year is here. All beds on sale up to 50% off. The limited edition smart bed, limited time exclusively At a sleep number store near you. Sleep number official sleep and wellness partner of the NFL. See store or sleepnumber.com for details.

[Pablo Torre]

Are you feeling more fulfilled now that.

[Adam Friedland]

You'Re back to work? No, I need a vacation. See the movie that critics are saying is an awesome. Look at that crowd pleasing, fist pumping all out brawl of a film. You're right about that. They're coming after our family. Go fix this. Oh, my. Nobody 2. Rated R. Only in theaters now.

[Pablo Torre]

I want to convey to people that you are many people. Yeah, many people will be excited that. That you're here. Others, I think should be introduced to you maybe.

[Adam Friedland]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

I.

[Adam Friedland]

Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

I want to establish that you know various headlines that may have appeared in GQ and otherwise.

[Adam Friedland]

Not true.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, there are photo spreads that indicate all of it.

[Adam Friedland]

Very embarrassing photos.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, you're. What was the headline? I want to get it right.

[Adam Friedland]

Is he the millennial Adolf Hitler?

[Pablo Torre]

I believe it was Adolf Hitler. Adam Friedland could be the millennial Jon Stewart, period.

[Adam Friedland]

Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

But does he want that question mark?

[Adam Friedland]

That's as far as I read, actually. I read the first sentence or the first. The beginning of the article I read. And then I was like. I got scared and nauseous. I watched my girlfriend read it. I was like. I was like, is it a hit? Where's the hit? She's like, no hits so far. And then it's long, right?

[Pablo Torre]

It's very. It's exhaustive and it's. It's very. It is rightfully complimentary.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, okay.

[Pablo Torre]

I would say that.

[Adam Friedland]

Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

Your lip is quivering. In the. In the. In the photo spread with, again, just. Just a real crackling, masculine, emotional openness.

[Adam Friedland]

I saw those. They made me take the picture on the floor. Like the sexy one. I was like, can you not use it? And they use it as the main one. I stopped the floor part. I was like, I'm not. Can we not do this? And then they used it. The main one.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. They're like, can get that elbow crook at 45 degrees.

[Adam Friedland]

I got basically every comedian's group chat. Just. I instantly knew. I was like, everyone's killing me right now. People text me and they were like, this is terrible. You look. I hate this.

[Pablo Torre]

I had a photo taken in the studio right over there in front of that vortex for New York magazine. And they had me do a pose at the very end. And it was like, can you just like, hold your come on your chin in your hand? And I was like, they're not going to use this.

[Adam Friedland]

And they Use it.

[Pablo Torre]

And then I look like, you know, Professor Sexy.

[Adam Friedland]

One of the sexiest.

[Pablo Torre]

Filipino Dr. Evil.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. Pinoy evil.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. You are genuinely beyond being host of Cometown, which is a show that I can't even begin to explain here.

[Adam Friedland]

It was like a comedy podcast.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Naked stuff.

[Pablo Torre]

Super, super influential. And this is very sincere. A super influential, wildly successful, generationally identifying, unscripted, improvisational podcast with you and two friends.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. It was like. We just acted like children for an hour. Yeah. It was a comedy podcast that we did for a while and I'd never. We didn't listen. I never listened to it at the time. And on YouTube, they're like fan generated clip comps. And I've listened to it since and I was like, it was so fun. We thought it was terrible at the time. We're like, that sucked. But yeah, it was so funny, I guess. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Turns out.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Turns out they were. The fan. The fan clip accounts were onto something, I think. Well, fan cams. The Adam fan cams were onto something.

[Adam Friedland]

We had a no media policy that Nick instituted. Quite. Quite intelligent.

[Pablo Torre]

I didn't appreciate this.

[Adam Friedland]

And well, also the name prohibited us from like, I think we were like said like a podcast whose name we can't write in. In this fine publication. And. And we. I. I guess that's how the show grew. Right. So. Because, like, because of the fans are making these like, accomplish. We had no idea at the time. It was cool.

[Pablo Torre]

It's the best thing to ask for.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Is organic.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. Yeah. A street team, if you will. Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

A volunteer army.

[Adam Friedland]

Yes. A volunteer army of. Of ugly men. Yes. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Your proud boys were just.

[Adam Friedland]

Come on, dude. No, it was hot six pack guys.

[Pablo Torre]

It was sexy also, like, like our staff. A multiracial coalition of very proud boys.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

But I say all that to say that the show that you do now that I visited, it's. It's not that. And it is something that I love.

[Adam Friedland]

Thanks, bro.

[Pablo Torre]

And part of what I love about it genuinely is the sincerity of effort that I witnessed. That is quite real.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. You.

[Pablo Torre]

You're putting work into this and it's not. Let me sit down to see what happens. It's like, no, you're. You're prepping and you're struct. You're producing.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. It was like. I think it was the first time I tried in my life. 35. I decided to try. Well, it was the first time I tried since the lsat.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, God.

[Adam Friedland]

You told me you were going to tell me. What is it?

[Pablo Torre]

That's Right.

[Adam Friedland]

What was yours?

[Pablo Torre]

This is an exclusive. I've never said this.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. What was it a lot.

[Pablo Torre]

The first time I got the else.

[Adam Friedland]

You went to heart, I mean.

[Pablo Torre]

No. Well, so I took it. So the. The legend.

[Adam Friedland]

I took three.

[Pablo Torre]

You took three? Yeah, I took two.

[Adam Friedland]

Three. But the second time I thought I. My. My second cousin is a psychiatrist. So I. I told my parents I needed Vyvanse, which is like the most intense ADD medication. And I was like, it's gonna make. And. And. And it turns out I'd Being on drugs that my score was not enhanced.

[Pablo Torre]

So.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. Okay. What? 1, 2, 3, 16 1. Oh, wow.

[Pablo Torre]

161.

[Adam Friedland]

That's what Ivy League. No, no, the first time.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

161.

[Pablo Torre]

161.

[Adam Friedland]

Okay. And the final time was that.

[Pablo Torre]

Wait, did you say your score the second time?

[Adam Friedland]

No, the second time is a wash.

[Pablo Torre]

What does that mean?

[Adam Friedland]

The. The. Because I was on drugs.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, okay. So I was risk. You asked that season.

[Adam Friedland]

Yes. Okay. I was on pe. I thought it was peds, but it was. You're getting nervous again. I'm getting the same nervous.

[Pablo Torre]

I know this is real.

[Adam Friedland]

I got the dinosaur game my third time. It. My ass. I would have been the president of the United States if it wasn't for the dinosaur game. No one knows what we're talking about.

[Pablo Torre]

If you don't know. So I recently learned that on the lsat, the most. The thing that I consider. We both consider clearly the most fearsome section is logic games.

[Adam Friedland]

I was. No. Once you figure out the system, you know, they took them off for these snowflakes.

[Pablo Torre]

That's what I was about to say. The snowflakes are gone now.

[Adam Friedland]

I can't believe it.

[Pablo Torre]

That's. I mean, it's just.

[Adam Friedland]

We should go to law school.

[Pablo Torre]

We should retro. Should quit retroactively. We should get our stats adjusted.

[Adam Friedland]

We should leave our.

[Pablo Torre]

Our women and start a personal injury.

[Adam Friedland]

Law firm says of plastic surgery. Start over in a new town. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Pose for photos at very particular angles.

[Adam Friedland]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And put them on billboards.

[Adam Friedland]

I think we just wrote a movie.

[Pablo Torre]

I got a 161 the first time.

[Adam Friedland]

Okay, same.

[Pablo Torre]

And then really literally same. Oh my God. Okay, this is getting. This is very relatable.

[Adam Friedland]

So you know what? You. You beat me or you didn't beat me last time?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I got a 71 the second time.

[Adam Friedland]

Whatever, dude.

[Pablo Torre]

So.

[Adam Friedland]

So you think you're better than me?

[Pablo Torre]

I didn't need that to know.

[Adam Friedland]

Did you apply? Did you apply?

[Pablo Torre]

No, no, no, no, no. I never Did.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, I did. I deferred twice to do. And I told my parents I wanted to explore my standup comedy. Oh, man, it was really embarrassing. I came out of the closet as a clown to my parents and my. My father said he was going to sue me. And I said, that's not how the courts work. He's like, you promised us you'd be a lawyer. And yeah. So then. And then I told my parents, this is what God does send me on. It's. Oh, God, it's nauseating to remember that. I think I was too lazy to do law school. So I started doing stand up comedy.

[Pablo Torre]

It's.

[Adam Friedland]

What a stupid idea. What a. What a millennial. Like, what to tell my parents I want to be a. I'm not even good at standup comedy.

[Pablo Torre]

I told my parents I wanted to be a sports writer.

[Adam Friedland]

That's a real job.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't think it's that much more real than clown.

[Adam Friedland]

I'm so jealous of that job. No, because there's actually. You get. You get paid by a company.

[Pablo Torre]

That's true.

[Adam Friedland]

I was getting drink tickets for 10 years. Yeah. And working as a paralegal. My real passion. Anyway, to go back to what we were saying initially, which was. Yeah, we. We kind of. We changed the show. And Nick. It was Nick Mullin's credit to him. Like this how everything happened. Like, it would start as a joke because I was the least popular. I was the schmuck of Cometown. And we're like, what if we made the least popular guy in ctown into like a public intellectual, Dick Cavett esque talk show host? And then it kind of became a real thing. I kind of started to enjoy doing interviews. And now we're three years in and. Yeah, now the show's.

[Pablo Torre]

You know, and now you're, like, really good friends with Chris Cuomo.

[Adam Friedland]

I think Joe's got it. Really? Yeah. He's sick.

[Unknown]

Are you going to vote for Joe Biden? I think when you say he's sick, you mean that he's dying.

[Adam Friedland]

No, I think he's awesome. Oh, he's got a. He has a Corvette and stuff. I don't know. We'll see. Yeah, I think. I think. I don't know.

[Pablo Torre]

I love the dynamic, genuinely.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, I did a show on News Nation.

[Pablo Torre]

You have been so.

[Adam Friedland]

I was on a panel with Andrew Yang, and I could just. I don't think me and Andrew Yang liked each other.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't. I did not get the sense that you guys were vibing he.

[Adam Friedland]

Well, Cuz he was. They were telling me what anti. That the campus protests are killing. That they're killing people at Columbia or something. It was insane.

[Unknown]

This isn't just about anti Semitism. It is about the growth of fundamentalism in America. When you have kids who are openly pro Hamas, it's not just anti Semitism. And you guys are gonna have to vote and donate in a different way and not forget who was for you and who wasn't in this moment.

[Adam Friedland]

You gotta stop with the kids as the Jew on the panel. Andrew, you're Jewish or. No, no, I'm Jewa Jason. I'll say this right now. I'm Jewa Jason. We're acting as if kids are protesting at a college and it's the first time ever. No, I mean we gave $25 billion to a war and kids are protesting it. It's not pro Hamas. It's the most horrible thing in the world. No, it's not. They're.

[Pablo Torre]

And there is an anti.

[Adam Friedland]

And it was violent on some of these. Oh, okay, listen, guys. People are being attacked and killed. I mean this has gotten very, very. And it's hateful.

[Unknown]

There's nothing wrong with being against what's happening in Gaza. But I'm just telling you, I've never seen Americans support terrorists.

[Adam Friedland]

I don't think that 18 year old like kids are the problem right now.

[Pablo Torre]

Guys. I got a 169 on the LSI. I got a 169 yang. Colombia.

[Adam Friedland]

Okay, I got a 169 yang. How much money does that get me every year? No. So we started this talk show and now I do interviews and it's been really fun. And tomorrow's a big one. We're not gonna say what it is.

[Pablo Torre]

I was gonna say, well, this is. That's the Nixon part of the, of the Frost. Nixon, you know, he's my favorite.

[Adam Friedland]

He's my favorite president. In terms of the writing, the writing on Nixon is the best. The writing about the screenwriting of that character is. He's, he's an incredible guy. Do you know about. He's a guy that just lost his whole life. And everyone's like, ugh, you're Richard Nixon. He beat Kennedy. And then the America was like, we'd rather have a papist. We'd rather let a papist with a criminal like steal an election than Richard Nixon. Yeah, he was like, he looked ugly at that debate.

[Pablo Torre]

You think JFK benefited from pretty privilege?

[Adam Friedland]

No, I think he benefited from dead people in Illinois voting for him. Probably. What? Okay. But here's the best. One of the best Nixons I'll give you right now.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay.

[Adam Friedland]

When he. He liked Pat, who became his wife, and he. He was like, do you want to go out with me? And she was like, no, like you. You're Richard Nixon. And he was like, well, can I chaperone you on dates with other guys? And he did it for 18 months.

[Pablo Torre]

Richard Nixon.

[Adam Friedland]

That's great writing.

[Pablo Torre]

Cucked himself. Well, no, he got to win her heart.

[Adam Friedland]

He broke her. I mean, she broke. She. Yeah, she eventually was like, I'll be with Richard Nixon, I guess. But, yeah, he was. He's.

[Pablo Torre]

I think I visited. I did. I was at a wedding in. In California, and it was within driving distance of the Presidential.

[Adam Friedland]

Did you go?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, we love Nixon.

[Pablo Torre]

I got a shirt of him shaking Elvis's hand. That one.

[Adam Friedland]

That one. Elvis was on. Fat Elvis. Yeah, the anti drug thing. Right.

[Pablo Torre]

I believe that's. That must be why Elvis was there.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. And he was on a ton of, like, speed at the time and fat somehow.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he has the. I mean, he has.

[Adam Friedland]

Which is such a funny idea is that, like, the kids are gonna like Elvis to tell them not to do drugs. So, like, this is that.

[Pablo Torre]

This is exactly why he was there. So King of Rock and Roll visited the White House in 1970 with one goal. This is the subhead of an article to have Nixon grant him a federal narc badge. Which is. That's the. That's the movie.

[Adam Friedland]

That's a Shaquille o' Neal move.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, like how Shaq was deputized by Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

[Adam Friedland]

Where's Arpaio? At the. Oh, he's dead. I think he died. Sheriff Joe Mariposa. We're just hanging out right now, Googling. This is how we talk to each other. We change the subject every two sentences.

[Pablo Torre]

Sheriff Joe Arpaio is 93 years old and thriving.

[Adam Friedland]

Good for him. You guys are going to enjoy. Pablo and I changing the subject 17 times, saying, you remember this guy? Do you remember Mookie Blaylock? Do you remember?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

John Olerud. Well, this. This will cut down.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. We're definitely gonna exhaustively trim this.

[Adam Friedland]

So what's up? How you doing? Can we call Korenheiser?

[Pablo Torre]

Do you consider yourself a journalist now?

[Adam Friedland]

I don't know. What is it? You know, the. You. You didn't go to J school?

[Pablo Torre]

No.

[Adam Friedland]

What are, like, the rules of it?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, that's part of the problem.

[Adam Friedland]

Have I broken any of the rules?

[Pablo Torre]

I don't know. Yeah, but I think part of the issue is that there is no good answer that's widely known to that question. Like, what. What does it take? There are. Certainly the Columbia Journalism School has a philosophy on it. Various other August institutions have journalism programs.

[Adam Friedland]

There's no, like, DSM of like, the rules.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. There's no, like, there is 700 page text that tells you whether you're clinically a journalist.

[Adam Friedland]

So. So no one. I mean, but there are journalistic ethics, right?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, yes.

[Adam Friedland]

Right. Yeah. I mean, you've worked for news organizations like.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

ESPN before, Sports Illustrators, where I started. That's like a real publication. Right. And they. Who taught you the rules then? Who's your.

[Pablo Torre]

That's the funny thing is that, like. So my first job, the job that I chose instead of going to apply to law school was as a fact checker. And that was not like a seminar. It was just like a thing you started doing. Like, you're truly the lowest rung of a newsroom ladder.

[Adam Friedland]

That's the. That's like the. The mail room.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, except in this case, you saw. You saw.

[Adam Friedland]

You're like spoastra. You were like, in the tape. You were doing the tape.

[Pablo Torre]

I was grinding.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, you were grinding.

[Pablo Torre]

And you worked your way up and you had to cross off every single word and article to make sure it was true. And that really did, like, convey the foremost, I think, principle of whatever journalism should be defined as, which is you have to try and be as accurate as possible. I think that's probably task number one. Yeah, but like, journalism to you, how would you define it? Actually, I don't want to just give you my takes.

[Adam Friedland]

I mean, I. When I have, like, a interview that's more substantive, I have, like, a friend of mine who is a journalist who. I mean, we do research for the interviews. And so he. He, like, works on the, like, a research packet for me and we, like, talk about. I don't know. I. I don't really. How would I define it? The newspaper? I don't know. Is that what journalism. I Googled it. When I first started doing interviews, I went on Wikipedia for journalism because I didn't know how to do interviews. And I watched a bunch of different. Like, I was like, who's good at interviews? And I watched Rogan, and what he does is like, he's like. Well, he agrees. Like, he. He's very exuberant and he, like. And easily impressionable. Maybe. I don't know. I'm trying to say it in a nice way. He's a Colleague, He's a friend. But like, he'll have like Bernie and he'll be like, I. That's right.

[Pablo Torre]

You know, Joe Rogan is a great listener. He'll say that he's a great active listener.

[Adam Friedland]

Well, when a guest is on the show, they feel like they're crushing.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Adam Friedland]

Right. So he'll have Bernie and then he'll have like, I don't know, like a Holocaust revisionist. And it'll be like, that's trippy. And then because you feel like you're crush, take it out. He's a friend, he's a good whatever. And because people feel like they're being convincing, he can get more out of them.

[Pablo Torre]

I think that part of what Rogan is there though is a really good interviewer. But I think part of the definition of journalism is that that's not exactly the same thing.

[Adam Friedland]

I don't really know what anything is anymore. It's schizophrenic world and comedians are now public intellectuals. All I know is this. I really want to be careful not to speak from a position of authority. Like I hear a lot. There are a lot of people nowadays that think that they, that aren't Wolf Blitzer, that have podcasts that will say things like, I had a Congressman Ro Khanna on. That's why I asked. I can't be like guests. I can't ask him like, what do you think about HR 270? Like I'm. I'm not a. I don't know, like I'm an idiot. I'm a, like I'm a comedian. Like, you know, I'm not as reclined. So like I'm not, but I can't attitude. But I can ask someone like, you know, like, no one likes the government. Why do you want to be in the government? Like that.

[Pablo Torre]

I feel like asking really good questions, which I think you do.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And I think you're really good, frankly, with people who like, seem to regard you as an alien of some kind especially. And. Or people that you seem to not respect a lot.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, I, I'm not.

[Pablo Torre]

I might do genres of guests from my point of view that you have.

[Adam Friedland]

Well, the. I think it, what it is is this is like so like when I watched Rogan, I was like, can I emulate that? Like that. And no, I can't really emulate that because my voice is annoying and Jewish and like. So what I do is what, like what's comes natural to me is that I can just self deprecate and I could be like, Listen, like, you're sitting next to a guy who pooped his pants on a podcast once.

[Pablo Torre]

And so, like, that is a factual.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, I'm a schmuck. Like, so, like, so America doesn't. People don't like, know it alls. Right. It's the same reason why, like, Fetterman had a, like had a stroke and like, was struggling through a debate. But Dr. Oz was such a. Was so smug that they're like, we're going to vote for the guy that, like, was having trouble talking. Right. So during the Pennsylvania Senate run.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, John Fetterman.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, John Fetterman and the guy that wears the hoodie to Congress, which is.

[Pablo Torre]

Come on, we can all agree.

[Adam Friedland]

Put on a shirt.

[Pablo Torre]

You know, like, I feel about John Fetterman the way I feel about NBA coaches, honestly, where it's like, you could dress up John.

[Adam Friedland]

But at least they're wearing like, golf, like, business, like, Friday business casual. At least they're wearing like, yeah, they're wearing exactly. So like, what I can do is, like, is if a guest disarms, if I'm like, you know, like, just, you know, like, and if I can, like, make them relaxed, then, you know, if they, if they're self aware enough to realize I don't want to come across as a know it all schmuck, I'd rather, you know, then they'll kind of drop their guard and I can like, you know, then I can kind of talk to them in a more natural way.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Adam Friedland]

And I don't think people are used to talking to someone like, as. As unremarkable and mediocre as me. So like, them trying to make sense of it, I think is kind of an advantage that I have because I'm so. I'm just like, you know, how AI is going to take all of the jobs? Like, I don't think that they could do something that's just so, like, just so nothing of a, you know, I don't think like a computer could emulate something so stupid and unremarkable. Right. I think that's my advantage in life. I think I'm always going to have a job doing this.

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[Pablo Torre]

Do you think Chris Cuomo is going to listen to this and be like, he was working me the whole time?

[Adam Friedland]

No. We got along. I thought, yeah, but that's.

[Pablo Torre]

That example, by the way, isn't it? Is like, jock nerd. That was the dynamic immediately established.

[Adam Friedland]

But I. I was done. I was dunking. I think that he was the nerd.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, but that's. That's. I think it was. The joy of it was that it got to. It got to be Chris Cuomo having to, like, reckon with the fact that you also knew what you were doing and he started to play along.

[Adam Friedland]

I know ball. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I know sports. So that's kind of. I. I think. I think when you're doing interviews, you have to kind of like. It's like when you're starting stand up, you have to, like, look at the thing. That's. When you're selling stand up, you're like, what is fun? Like, what makes my friends laugh. Right. So when I was doing interviews, I was like, what's the thing about me that's, like, makes people feel comfortable?

[Pablo Torre]

So this gets me back to, like, the definition of journalism, to me, because I think asking really good questions.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Asking them charismatically or strategically, which you've been describing, is not quite journalism, but the thing you just said about who am I doing this for? I think journalism has a defined answer.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And that answer is. And I'm gonna break out the scare quotes, the public interest. Like, that's who I'm trying to serve. That's the real distinction. To me.

[Adam Friedland]

There are, like, substantive cores of each one of them that I'm trying to get to, but I have to get to it in my way, which is, by the way.

[Pablo Torre]

And I. I am a subscriber and an imitator and somebody who tries to do the same thing. It needs to be stupid to get smart. I believe that as well. Like, fundamentally, if you like.

[Adam Friedland]

I had this, like, Internet debate guy destiny on the show.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, I know.

[Adam Friedland]

And I know I didn't know who. I didn't really know who he was before I started doing the research, but I saw that everyone who, like, was interfacing with him online. I didn't know that it was a thing that you could be famous for online, which is having an argument. Right. What feels like satisfying for you while you're doing one.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't want to step on any toes and open the most divisive issue ever for a prior guest. But I did a lot of preparation for the Finkelstein interview.

[Adam Friedland]

People said I cooked him way harder than you.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't think that ever. I don't think we ever debated anything in the past.

[Adam Friedland]

Not on your debate. I didn't watch a 17 hour debate on Lex Friedman about Israel where some goy is popping off about my. I'm so everyone. He's like a guy that can read a ton and get all the stats right and you're not going to get more stats than him. So what I realized was like, you got to come to someone like that. Everyone's trying to get more stats and more documents than him and he's going to have more than you. So you have to come to him with no documents and no stats. And that's like kind of what? Like if I'm approaching someone and saying like, you know you're wrong or like, I know and you don't know, then it's going to be adversarial.

[Pablo Torre]

I did high school debate. Destiny is a familiar character.

[Adam Friedland]

Lincoln Douglas. Yeah, we're the bro. We're like the same guy. We're the same guy.

[Pablo Torre]

Let's say our value premise on three. 1, 2, 3, 3. Justice.

[Adam Friedland]

Just kidding.

[Pablo Torre]

But the thing about Destiny, which I enjoyed in your interview of him, was that you did not try to high school debate him. And I think part of what you do really well, which I admire, is that you find conflict, verbal, rhetorical tension while not doing it in the way that a high school debater would. You check facts insofar as I can tell, but that's important.

[Adam Friedland]

I don't want to be a journalist. I just think that people just don't care anymore. People just aren't reading it. They're probably on Twitter looking at people getting killed and like, well, you could. Twitter is Sodom and Gomorrah these days. It's so scary. I can't look at it.

[Pablo Torre]

Did you see that? Like that, that stat that like a super majority of accounts on Twitter are what, Just bots at this point.

[Adam Friedland]

Really? Yeah, really. So everyone likes Jewish people still? Because I got. I was getting nervous there for a second.

[Pablo Torre]

But I think your point is a fair one also that like the, the reality of how we get news and.

[Adam Friedland]

Probably more people are like, you know, Rogan's probably getting 10 times more people than Anderson Cooper every day.

[Pablo Torre]

But as a sports fan, to bring it back to the guy, that was the peak of my career. I also think that like modern journalism, like what Bill Simmons did in sports is a really good way forward. Actually, we should disclose sports is doing good.

[Adam Friedland]

You're saying.

[Pablo Torre]

I think that identifying your fandom and not pretending like you're this omniscient voice from nowhere.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, being a objective. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Like, just disclose it.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

It's okay.

[Adam Friedland]

I respect that about him as a Laker fan, even.

[Pablo Torre]

And that's by the way. So our friendship really did escalate. When I'm like, all right, Adam loves to phone call people.

[Adam Friedland]

I. It's. People get really annoyed by it. But yeah, I'm a phone call guy, which I.

[Pablo Torre]

So is Tony Kser, by the way. Like, just refuses to have the deposition records, the discovery. Refuses that. But the point being that, like.

[Adam Friedland]

You.

[Pablo Torre]

As unapologetic Laker fan calling me and talking for an hour about your fandom. I'm like, you still can be somebody who writes or covers sports as a fan. You just got to disclose that part.

[Adam Friedland]

Sure.

[Pablo Torre]

And that's okay.

[Adam Friedland]

But the NBA media is just all Boston. Yeah, right.

[Pablo Torre]

The Boston. You know, the green. Our friends and Andrew Quo at cookies.

[Adam Friedland]

Those people.

[Pablo Torre]

Those people. The. The Boston media muffin. The little green hand.

[Adam Friedland]

Yes. I'm out of the closet as a Laker fan, and people just be aware of that. But, you know, it doesn't.

[Pablo Torre]

You're unhinged.

[Adam Friedland]

I need him. I need him. Who doesn't feel the same with him as it felt with my.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

When the Lakers won in the bubble. I, like, thought. Thirty seconds later, I'm like, it's different. Oh, he's never going to be our. He's never going to be my guy. Him. I don't know. I'm a Kobe fan. And you know what kids do nowadays? They're player fans.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh. This is the biggest problem for the NBA as a. As a business, really. Yeah. Is that kids don't watch games. They follow players.

[Adam Friedland]

Does it make more sense, though? I think it's kind of. That makes more sense. Right.

[Pablo Torre]

It's a. By the way, that's exactly what's happening in media.

[Adam Friedland]

It's like, I'm not like a genie bus fan. Right. I'm not like a. Or like an outfit now.

[Pablo Torre]

A Mark Walter, your new owner.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. We're going to do great things.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

We're going to do some huge things.

[Pablo Torre]

Also a friend, but. But truly, like, that whole thing, though, of like, young people would rather consume an individual's stuff. Joe Rogan, instead of fill in the blank institution.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

So too, is it in sports fandom where I'm not paying attention so much to the team. I'm paying attention to my favorite guy, whoever my favorite individual creator is.

[Adam Friedland]

That's sweet. Yeah, that's real.

[Pablo Torre]

That's how. That's how kids are apparently demographically trending.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, it. What's interesting is that I think that we didn't know who guys were, like, prior to, like, social media and stuff, Right? Like, we did. We thought, like, MJ hung out with Bugs Bunny every day. We thought, like, we didn't know that he was, like, sociopath. He had hate in his gut. You know, we just thought he was, like, just a. Like, a nice guy because he was so insulated by Nike and by the NBA. By the way, David Stern, the Last.

[Pablo Torre]

Dance is another good case study in, like, is this journalism? So my friend Jason Hare directed it. He does not identify as a journalist, but what he got Michael Jordan to say, in which he's crying, articulating his code of honor.

[Adam Friedland]

I don't have to do this.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm only doing it because it is who I am.

[Adam Friedland]

That's how I played the game.

[Pablo Torre]

That was my mentality.

[Adam Friedland]

If you don't want to play that way, don't play that way. Break.

[Pablo Torre]

That's also, like, supreme. Perfect interviewing to get that part.

[Adam Friedland]

Not the goat, not your goat, not my goat.

[Pablo Torre]

But you're.

[Adam Friedland]

You're.

[Pablo Torre]

You're. You're.

[Adam Friedland]

What I'm saying. What I'm saying is, like, I feel really bad. Well, like, the distance between. It's. I hate this word, like, but the creator. And then the consumer is blurred.

[Pablo Torre]

Like the music production.

[Adam Friedland]

And there's a really good, like, interview. David Bowie, like, in the 1990s, where he, like, predicts the Internet, right. Where he's like, the distance between the Beatles and Elvis and then the fans was just light years. Right. And what the computer is going to do is it's going to blur it. I think we're actually on the cusp of something exhilarating and terrifying. It's just a tool, though, isn't it? No, it's not. No. Now it's an alien life form. What do you think? I mean, when you think then about, is there life on Mars? Yes, it's just landed here. But that's. It's simply a different delivery system there. You're arguing about something more profound. Oh, yeah. I'm talking about that the actual context and the state of content is going to be so different to anything that we can really envisage at the moment where the interplay between the user and the provider will be so in sympatico. It's going to. It's going to crush our ideas of what mediums are all about. So now everyone gets mad at LeBron for. For every single day for, like, trying to do something and then stepping like Sideshow Bob stepping on a rake. But I feel like now you have.

[Pablo Torre]

Empathy for that part of his life. I mean, like, when he liked perfect booties on Instagram and it got caught and Screenshot.

[Adam Friedland]

I have empathy for the fact that, like, he's kind of the beta tester of this. He's different, dude.

[Pablo Torre]

He's our generation. LeBron is the first millennial, Jon Stewart, Michael Jordan generation.

[Adam Friedland]

And because he's the main guy, like, Steph can go to. To, like, what's that guy? That concert, Benson Boone concert. And like, if LeBron wore that hat at a Benson at a Benson Boom concert, LeBron would have gotten killed. What I'm fascinated by is like, there are all these, like, you know, you could read an infinite stream of opinions about you, right? Like, there were three newspapers MJ could read, and, you know, he'd have the journalist killed and then they, you know, whatever. But these guys, like, what. What I've come to understand is that these guys, that all of them are like, LeBron does consume the Labom accounts, even if he's not burner.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, so I. This is this.

[Adam Friedland]

So this is where that drives me insane.

[Pablo Torre]

What I should reveal to our audience is that you.

[Adam Friedland]

Don'T get me in trouble now too.

[Pablo Torre]

No, but you're the number one person who persuaded me to look into. Did LeBron go to the Kobe Bryant Memorial?

[Adam Friedland]

I told my dad that, and he's like, you just ruined the playoff run. He's like, the playoffs are about to start. He's like, why are you ruining the season?

[Pablo Torre]

You convinced this podcaster to talk to people to establish that he never showed up.

[Adam Friedland]

Okay, this is an interesting thing that.

[Pablo Torre]

I'd love to, but you were the person who are like, you should look into this. And I did, and you were correct.

[Adam Friedland]

But let's be Christian for a second, okay? The two of us are God fearing Christian men, right? We never saw Michael be nice. Like, be like tender, ever. Right? He was at his hall of Fame speech drunk, talking about Byron Russell. He's like, if he wants to come see me, it's like no one remembers Byron Russell except for free like us.

[Pablo Torre]

Ryan the first.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, the fir.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, was it by everybody?

[Adam Friedland]

Weird.

[Pablo Torre]

I know. Everybody's.

[Adam Friedland]

How do you. Is it.

[Pablo Torre]

Is this a Brian scene?

[Adam Friedland]

Okay, anyway, can you imagine is different?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. B. R Y O N for.

[Adam Friedland]

Can you imagine, like the first time we ever see mj? Like, and it was a beaut. It was one of the most beautiful moments ever where he said, there was this kid and he bothered me and he annoyed me. And he used to call me in the middle of the night and I was like, this guy. And I realized he's like a little brother. And he was in pain about Kobe at the memorial. And they. And he's like, I loved this person. And if we accept the premise that MJ won't even speak, according to your former colleague Stephen a. Smith, that MJ won't even acknowledge LeBron's existence. Can you imagine how painful he wore 23 growing up? Can you imagine watching Michael, who ignores you and thinks you suck and like, and has been torturing you probably through the media for the last 20 years about. And somehow the goat debate is a thing. When we see a guy who's 40 and 20, what was he, 24, 8 and 8 last year at 40, can you imagine how terrible that would have been for LeBron?

[Pablo Torre]

The stakes of that memorial service could not have been more emotionally profound. Yeah, like, that all is real. Like the Shakespearean whole. Like, there is everybody, like Michael Jordan is in the way that Bill Belichick has been like America's emotionally unforgiving dad.

[Adam Friedland]

But he was nice to Kobe.

[Pablo Torre]

But he then reveals, after Kobe is not around to hear it, that he had always had this tender spot for this guy who was like trying to. Michael Jordan. You're actually tearing up.

[Adam Friedland]

It makes me want to cry.

[Pablo Torre]

This is I. Again, I love the utter sincerity around your fandom.

[Adam Friedland]

You know that. Do you know the, the Michael Jackson story?

[Pablo Torre]

What is, what is?

[Adam Friedland]

You don't know the Michael Jackson story.

[Pablo Torre]

About Kobe, About Kobe?

[Adam Friedland]

So Kobe studied the greats, right?

[Pablo Torre]

It was like in his office, it was like Steve Jobs.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, God. Yeah, it was corny sometimes, the way he talk about it. But like, it'd be cool because every summer he'd come back and he'd like go to Houston for a summer and then have the dream shake. He'd like add a new weapon every summer.

[Pablo Torre]

I love, I love that.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, I love that. I love that. We love that. Bald headed Kobe slam dunk champion rookie was a babe. He was a 17, right? And on that first off season, he's like, I need to get a man's body right? So he was in Gold's Gym and he's lifting weights in Marina Del Rey, California. And he gets a call and he picks up and he goes, kobe, it's Michael. And he's like, this is a. This is a prank. And he hangs up. And he. The. The person calls back is like, kobe, it's Michael. I want you to come to Neverland. And he goes out to Santa Barbara. Tell me if I fact check.

[Pablo Torre]

No, so far, this is accurate fact check. It was a gold gym.

[Adam Friedland]

How did I get that right? Okay. He's at Planet Fitness. And anyway, he goes out to Santa Barbara, Neverland, and Michael, apparently they have this conversation. Michael's like, listen, I see you. And you're like me. And people are going to heap you with praise. People are going to give you everything and tell you, you're incredible.

[Pablo Torre]

This is a paraphrase, but the quote from the story.

[Adam Friedland]

Am I close?

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, it is. This is Kobe recalling how inside the French Normandy residence, otherwise known as Neverland, a 2,700acre cornucopia of childlike delights. According to this ESPN the magazine. Yeah, yeah, it's great. Only good things happen there. The two men share a meal of marinated chicken and organic vegetables. He told me, quote, this is what you love. This is your obsession. Brian recalls. He said, I know what it's like to be different. Embrace it.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. Michael's like, they're going to give you everything and they're going to take it away. And every. And everyone. Everyone's going to love you. And every. Then all of a sudden, everyone's going to hate you.

[Pablo Torre]

This is where.

[Adam Friedland]

This is where. And you cannot stop.

[Pablo Torre]

This is where Michael shows him the smooth. He shows him, like.

[Adam Friedland]

And he gives him a book.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he shows him footage of Kobe, had never heard of Grace Kelly, Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers before this private screening by Michael Jackson, in which he explains the inspiration for Smooth Criminal, by the way. But the book. Do you remember the book?

[Adam Friedland]

Jonathan Livingston Siegel. It's a book about a bird who wants to fly higher than any other bird.

[Pablo Torre]

A novella about an outcast bird who's unwilling to conform.

[Adam Friedland]

And he said, we are that bird. And when everyone hates you, you cannot stop being great.

[Pablo Torre]

So again, like, I'm laughing because he's a mad lib, but it's also you're.

[Adam Friedland]

And it is. It is what happened in Kobe's career where, like, he went emotionally.

[Pablo Torre]

This is exactly right.

[Adam Friedland]

He went evil Kobe after Shaq, basically, he got blamed for the breakup of that team. And it wasn't his fault. It was the. Much more the buses, right? They say that Kobe broke up that team. And then Shaq is at a Club wins. It basically rides D. Wade's coattails to a chip. And then he's at a club and he's saying, tell me how my ass tastes. It's about big, AKA Big Shaq. Now that's the difference between first and last place Kobe.

[Pablo Torre]

Tell me how my ass tastes.

[Adam Friedland]

And everyone's laughing at Kobe.

[Pablo Torre]

That's a great. That is a great clip.

[Adam Friedland]

It's not that great. Yeah. Well, let's start.

[Pablo Torre]

I loved Sheriff Shaquille o' Neal rapping.

[Adam Friedland]

That you're going to play the Detroit Pistons and then the referees are not going to call a single foul against you guys.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, God.

[Adam Friedland]

That serious? You want to hear really funny.

[Pablo Torre]

You got beaten by.

[Adam Friedland]

By.

[Pablo Torre]

By Ben Wallace by a 6 foot 2 center.

[Adam Friedland]

He played big, though.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, he was amazing.

[Adam Friedland]

He played big. My. My dad, I think like four minutes before we were about to lose those finals, my. My dad said he stood up and he goes, we never go on family walks. And. And he's like, every. We. And he's like. And he's like, put your shoes on, everyone. And me, my sister, my mom went on a walk with my dad where he was like five feet ahead of us, like, walking as fast as he could because he was so mad. Just working out rage. And so, so. But anyway, yeah, apparently Michael was like, do not ever stop trying to, like, be with your obsession. Do not ever stop, like, trying to be as great as you could possibly be. Go 4 for 28 every single night.

[Pablo Torre]

In your last game, and then you will take 1 million field goal attempts.

[Adam Friedland]

That is the Most.

[Pablo Torre]

Score is 60.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, shut up. That is the most beautiful sports memory of my entire lifetime. I cried. I. I legitimately called my father and we were both crying because. Do you remember that last season?

[Pablo Torre]

I watched. I watched that game. That whole season was.

[Adam Friedland]

Was terrible.

[Pablo Torre]

It was a very nauseating, nauseating retirement farewell tour.

[Adam Friedland]

Well, no, it was so engineered by the league. Every stadium that was like, like, you know, everyone acted like they were Kobe fans.

[Pablo Torre]

Exactly. That's what was so annoying about. It was like. It was a record. Video tribute.

[Adam Friedland]

Every stadium did a video tribute. And we were saying goodbye to him and he was done. His legs, his knees were gone. He sucked. And like, we were seeing him. He had that double digit, like, points streak that he was scoring like six, you know, on. On 28 attempts or something. Like, it was heartbreaking. It was like, why are you doing this? It's like nauseating. And we got him back one night. We got.

[Pablo Torre]

It was.

[Adam Friedland]

It's.

[Pablo Torre]

God, theatrically, it's God, it was perfect.

[Adam Friedland]

You say you'll never join the Navy, that you never track storms brewing in the Atlantic and skydiving could never be part of your commute. You'd never climb Mount Fuji on a port visit or fly so fast you break the sound barrier. Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Start your journey at navy.com, america's Navy, forged by the sea. You say you'll never join the Navy, never climb Mount Fuji on a port visit or break the sound barrier. Joining the Navy sounds crazy, saying never actually is. Learn [e-mail] America's Navy forged by the sea.

[Pablo Torre]

No sport is, I think, narratively, theatrically more interesting on an individual level. Because, again, it's like, there's no better seat in sports, by the way, than being on the court for a basketball game. It's like being on stage during a play.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And so you see the faces, you see the tears. You hear everything like it is theater. And so the NBA has these individualized, like, virtuoso performances. And the problem is that the kids today. The kids today, like, they.

[Adam Friedland]

These goddamn three pointers.

[Pablo Torre]

But no, but they individualized that phenomenon to the exclusion of actual games relative to us, relative to our parents, certainly. And that's like the gift became the curse.

[Adam Friedland]

But the thing that we're talking about, I think the kids can understand because the beautiful moments are a 17 win team. Like winning that one game or Michael Jordan, like the. This guy that we've never seen be like this beautiful moment in this beautiful speech or KD talking to his mom. I mean, it's just like you have to.

[Pablo Torre]

The real MVP that.

[Adam Friedland]

I mean, that's one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. When you didn't eat, you made sure we ate. You went to sleep hungry. You sacrificed for us. You the real mvp. Because it's like you create narrative. And we love, like, to follow these people's careers.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, Human.

[Adam Friedland]

Human. And follow these stories. Right. And that's part of the reason why Tiger makes me so sad. Because, like. And when he won the Masters. And I cried when he won the Masters, because we're at the eight we. Did you have SI for kids, of course.

[Pablo Torre]

Like Buzz Beamer.

[Adam Friedland]

Do you know Grant Hill was big on in our era?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, Grant Hill was like. He was like the role model. He played the piano.

[Adam Friedland]

He was a nice boy. He went to Duke.

[Pablo Torre]

His dad went to Yale.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

He went to Duke.

[Adam Friedland]

Well, so Tiger was like the good boy. Right? And then we found out that he had. He got ladies or something. And then.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, the Perkins and, you know, and.

[Adam Friedland]

Then he went away.

[Pablo Torre]

Like, we felt, like, deeply broken physically.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. From thinking that he's SEAL Team 6.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, he did do all those Navy SEAL exercises. His dad did. Used to say that he believed that Tiger would be on par, if not in excess of Gandhi, when it came to his impact upon the world.

[Adam Friedland]

When we were kids, we were like, this guy's the greatest of all time, and he's also kind of a kid. Right. And he's winning tournaments by, like, 19 strokes. And we're like, this is awesome. Like, we're part of this thing right now. And then he dis. He went away. We didn't get. We didn't get to see him anymore. And then he came back and won the Masters one time, and it was like we saw our friend again one time, and it was like, I miss. I missed you. Like.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Adam Friedland]

It's. It's. That's. That's part of the same, I guess. Phenomenal. I love ball. I just love sports.

[Pablo Torre]

Very obvious to me that your genuine love of ball is, like, the thing you're most passionate about.

[Adam Friedland]

I care about sports more than comedy. I hate. I don't care. I like songs and sports.

[Pablo Torre]

Songs. Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

I like movies. Movies, songs, and sports. That's.

[Pablo Torre]

Which is why Shaquille o' Neal is criminally underrated in your personal hall of.

[Adam Friedland]

Fame as a recording artist.

[Pablo Torre]

As a actor. Recording artist, and. Yeah, ballplayer.

[Adam Friedland]

All right, so what is journalism?

[Pablo Torre]

I think we should call at the end here. Can we call Koreanizer Tony Kornizer and see if he'll tell us what it is?

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, this is. That's a good button on the episode. You're a real pro, dude.

[Pablo Torre]

You think?

[Adam Friedland]

I. That's a great button on the episode.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm trying to. I'm trying to land the plane here.

[Adam Friedland]

Land this plane. He better please pick up. This would be one of the best days of my life. I love him so much.

[Pablo Torre]

I know. It's. I mean, same. Here we go. Here we go.

[Adam Friedland]

Do you remember being home sick from school and watching the video?

[Pablo Torre]

They're about to take pti, but we can sneak in. Let's see.

[Adam Friedland]

Because is Wilbon there?

[Pablo Torre]

Will Bond's gonna be way late, so I think we have time. Here we go. Hold on.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, my God, I'm so nervous. Please. Hi, you've reached my voicemail. This is good enough message. See what happens. What do you want to say, Mr. Kornizer? Big fan. Adam Freeland. I. I just. You know, I would honestly, if you'd like to come on the Adam Freelance Show.

[Pablo Torre]

Come on.

[Adam Friedland]

Sorry. Yeah, I just. I'm with Pablo right now, and I just wanted to say, what is.

[Pablo Torre]

What is journalism? Question mark?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, but he's. It's his voicemail. He's like. Is he gonna call us back?

[Pablo Torre]

Probably.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. Just. Yeah. I was wondering what Journalism.

[Pablo Torre]

Love you.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, love you. Did we get it?

[Pablo Torre]

Pablo Torre Finds out is produced by Walter Abaroma, Maxwell Carney, Ryan Cortez, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, neely Loma, Rob McRae, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor and Chris Tuminello. RStudio Engineering by RG Systems. Sound design by NGW Post Theme Song, as always, by John Bravo. And we will talk to you next time.