The Journalist vs. The Interviewer, with Adam Friedland

Summary

Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: The Journalist vs. The Interviewer, with Adam Friedland

Date: August 15, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Guest: Adam Friedland

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Overview

This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out features a sprawling, personal, and frequently hilarious conversation between Pablo and comedian-podcaster Adam Friedland. The central theme revolves around the blurry boundaries between journalism and interviewing, the ethics and craft of both disciplines, and the ways sports, fandom, and celebrity intersect with those roles. It’s equal parts mutual admiration, earnest exploration, and rambling sports therapy session, peppered with behind-the-scenes stories, personal confessions, and the signature irreverence both guys bring to their shows.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter & Friendship Reveal

• Studio Vibes & Jokes (01:21–02:22):
  The episode launches with mutual teasing about studio quality and on-air sneak attacks; Adam expresses “studio envy” and jokes about Pablo’s diverse production room.
  • “It’s a full on theater. You have a mid century showroom... 27 people behind the camera.” — Adam (01:35)
• Coming Out as Friends:
  Pablo and Adam playfully “come out” as real-life friends, discussing how their dynamic differs on and off air.

2. The Podcasting Pivot: From Comedian to Interviewer

• Cometown Retrospective (07:22–09:16):
  Adam reflects on the infamous, influential Cometown podcast—its cult following, “no media policy,” and how fan-generated clips fueled its spread.
  • “We just acted like children for an hour. We thought it was terrible at the time... but it was so funny, I guess.” — Adam (07:46)
• The New Show’s Sincerity & Effort:
  Pablo admires Adam’s shift toward earnest, structured interviews on his current show, noting, “You’re prepping and structuring, you’re producing.” (09:16)
  • Adam says, “It was the first time I tried in my life. 35. I decided to try. Well, first time I tried since the LSAT.” (09:34)

3. Law School, Parenting, Life Paths (09:43–13:38)

• LSAT Scores & Family Pressure:
  Both discuss their near-miss legal careers, comparing LSAT disaster stories and how parents reacted to not following “safe” paths.
  • “I came out of the closet as a clown to my parents, and my father said he was going to sue me.” — Adam (12:10)
• Shift to Comedy & Writing:
  Adam jokes about becoming a standup out of “laziness” and Pablo recalls becoming a sports journalist as only slightly more practical.

4. Defining The Role: Journalist vs Interviewer (18:42–22:45)

• What Is a Journalist?
  Adam admits, “I don’t know. What is it?... There’s no 700-page text that tells you whether you’re clinically a journalist.” (19:15)
  Pablo notes that the “foremost principle... is you have to try and be as accurate as possible” (20:10), but insists the definition is messy and shifting.
• Research and Ethics:
  Adam shares his reliance on a journalist friend for prepping research packets and learning on the job: “I Googled it. When I first started doing interviews, I went on Wikipedia for journalism because I didn’t know how to do interviews.” (20:26)

5. Styles & Strategies: Rogan, Self-Deprecation, & Comedy Tactics (21:19–24:36)

• On Joe Rogan’s Interviewing Style:
  Adam dissects Rogan’s “active listening,” exuberance, and tendency to make guests feel they're “crushing,” but distinguishes that from traditional journalism.
• Disarming Guests:
  Adam reflects that his own “schmuck” persona helps guests relax: “I can just self deprecate. I could be like, listen, you’re sitting next to a guy who pooped his pants on a podcast once.” (23:23)
  • “People don’t like know-it-alls... I’d rather... make them relaxed. Then... I can kind of talk to them in a more natural way.” (24:04)
  • “I don’t think people are used to talking to someone as unremarkable and mediocre as me.” — Adam (24:36)

6. Journalism as Public Service & Fandom Disclosure (26:18–32:19)

• Serving “The Public Interest”:
  Pablo draws a hard line: “Journalism has a defined answer... the public interest. That’s who I’m trying to serve. That’s the real distinction to me.” (26:34)
• Sports Journalism & Fandom:
  Both discuss modern sportswriting, especially Bill Simmons’ confessional style and the merits of “disclosing” your rooting interests.
  • “Identifying your fandom and not pretending like you’re this omniscient voice from nowhere.” — Pablo (30:11)
  • “I’m out of the closet as a Laker fan... people just be aware of that.” — Adam (31:20)

7. Celebrity, Parasitic Fame, & The New Media Landscape (32:29–36:44)

• Player-Driven Fandom:
  They examine how young fans follow players, not teams—mirroring how audiences now follow creators, not institutions.
  • “That’s exactly what’s happening in media... young people consume an individual’s stuff.” — Pablo (32:29)
• Social Media and Humanizing Athletes:
  Adam recounts how social media blurred the lines between athletes and fans, leading to overexposure and rapid, often undeserved, backlash.

8. Landmark Sports Stories & Emotional Resonance (33:12–49:04)

• Michael Jordan & Kobe Bryant:
  They revisit The Last Dance as a journalism case study, marvel at MJ’s rare vulnerability at Kobe’s memorial, and discuss the emotional weight for LeBron.
  • “We never saw Michael be... tender ever.” — Adam, tearing up (37:17–39:44)
• Kobe's Mentorship from Michael Jackson:
  Adam retells a detailed story about Kobe and Michael Jackson, including the lesson of persecution and perseverance (“Jonathan Livingston Seagull”).
  • “He said... we are that bird. And when everyone hates you, you cannot stop being great.” — Adam (42:36)
• Tiger Woods:
  The pair wax nostalgic about Tiger’s rise, fall, and cathartic Masters comeback.
  • “I miss. I missed you. That’s part of the same, I guess. I love ball. I just love sports.” — Adam (49:04)
• The Power of Narrative in Sports:
  They bond over iconic moments: KD’s “You the real MVP,” Kobe’s 60-point finale, and how those stories give meaning to fandom.

9. Full Circle: What Is Journalism?

• Landing the Plane:
  The pair decide to call legendary sportswriter Tony Kornheiser for a final word on the journalism question. Kornheiser doesn’t pick up—the moment is nonetheless charming.
  • “What is journalism? Love you.” — Adam, leaving the voicemail (51:13)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We just acted like children for an hour. Yeah. It was a comedy podcast that we did for a while and ... on YouTube they’re like fan generated clip comps. And I’ve listened to it since and I was like, it was so fun. We thought it was terrible at the time. ... but it was so funny, I guess.” — Adam, on Cometown nostalgia (07:46)
• “It was the first time I tried in my life. 35. I decided to try. Well, it was the first time I tried since the LSAT.” — Adam, on his new show (09:34)
• “I came out of the closet as a clown to my parents, and my father said he was going to sue me. And I said, that’s not how the courts work.” — Adam (12:10)
• “Journalism has a defined answer... the public interest. That’s who I’m trying to serve. That’s the real distinction to me.” — Pablo (26:34)
• “You have to try and be as accurate as possible. Yeah, I think that’s probably task number one.” — Pablo (20:19)
• “I can just self deprecate. ... America doesn’t... like know-it-alls.” — Adam (23:23, 24:04)
• “The NBA media is just all Boston... The little green hand.” — Adam (31:11)
• “Can you imagine how painful ... watching Michael, who ignores you and thinks you suck and, like, and has been torturing you, probably through the media for the last 20 years about. And somehow the GOAT debate is a thing. ... Can you imagine how terrible that would have been for LeBron?” — Adam (38:44)
• “I care about sports more than comedy... I like songs and sports.” — Adam (49:22)
• “What is journalism? Love you.” — Adam, on Kornheiser’s voicemail (51:13)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:21 – Reveal: Adam didn't realize they were recording; "coming out" as friends.
• 07:22–09:16 – Cometown’s legacy, organic fan growth, no media policy.
• 09:43–13:38 – LSAT stories, law school detours, careers in comedy/journalism.
• 18:42–22:45 – Defining journalism; formal/informal training; boundaries.
• 21:19–24:36 – Disarming interviewees; lessons from Joe Rogan’s style.
• 26:18–32:19 – Journalism vs interviewing; public service vs entertainment; fandom disclosures.
• 33:12–36:44 – Player fandom, media shifts, and LeBron’s relationship with MJ & Kobe memorial.
• 37:17–39:44 – MJ’s eulogy for Kobe: emotional stakes, generational meaning.
• 42:36–45:21 – Michael Jackson and Kobe’s “Jonathan Livingston Seagull” mentorship.
• 49:04–51:13 – Sports as emotional ballast; attempt to get Tony Kornheiser’s take.

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Tone & Language

The episode is unabashedly personal, playful, and profane at times—with intellectual depth peeking through the punchlines. The tone swings between earnest (sometimes teary) fandom, self-deprecating wit, and warm camaraderie. The hosts' irreverence is balanced by deep respect for their crafts and subjects.

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Takeaways

• The line between journalist and interviewer is messier and more porous than ever, reshaped by podcasting, social media, and fan-driven media.
• Sincerity, self-awareness, and a willingness to play the “schmuck” can be a secret weapon in interviews—especially in an age allergic to know-it-alls.
• Whether in media or fandom, authenticity and open disclosure of interests are more valuable than false impartiality.
• Sports provide a uniquely human narrative canvas—creating moments of collective catharsis, empathy, and meaning—often more moving than anything planned.
• Sometimes, the best answer to a big question (“What is journalism?”) is just to let it hang, awkward and unresolved, between friends who know how to love the game.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is. Let's say our value premise. On three. One, two, three. Justice.

[B]

Just kidding.

[A]

Right after this ad.

[B]

How's your summer been? Good.

[A]

It's good. It's good, man.

[B]

You've been working the whole time? Yeah, yeah, I just finally took a.

[A]

Break, I was gonna say, but you're. You're. You're in the midst of like prepping your Frost Nixon.

[B]

Well, I had Frost yesterday. Oh, I had the millennial congressman Frost. Do you know him? Maxwell Frost.

[A]

Oh, that's. That's a real thing.

[B]

That boy a freak. He elected 25 the first year you can get elected.

[A]

I just googled him. I recognize this person.

[B]

He's the first young bull that like. Because they. The Democratic Party like shanks any other child. Like young, you know, like Zoron.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They don't want any new talent. They just want like, you know, so he. He wants Smeagol and whatever he made.

[A]

He's their precious.

[B]

And I think that he's the one that snuck. They got through. He's like progressive. Oh, are we. Are we on the show?

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

We're going.

[A]

Is that okay?

[B]

I didn't know. Do you. You did the sneak attack on me.

[A]

Yeah, I did.

[B]

Dude, I have. I have studio envy right now.

[A]

You hold on.

[B]

You came to me first and I'm like, voila, Pablo.

[A]

Yeah, it's a full on theater. You have a. You have a mid century showroom of. This is.

[B]

This is the most gorgeous. You have 27 people behind the camera.

[A]

That's right. I feel like a multiracial rainbow coalition that we've assembled here to surround you.

[B]

Is it Every single race is represented. The United Nations.

[A]

Yeah. DNA test would indicate.

[B]

You have the flags everywhere. We have a.

[A]

We have a rice cooker with a soccer ball in it.

[B]

Oh, nice. Can we restart?

[A]

Mostly what I do.

[B]

Can we restart? So welcome to Pablo Torre finds out my guest today. Pablo Torre, Adam Freeland here. We're like. We're. We're quite good friends. We're coming out of the closet as friends today.

[A]

You. You did something when I left your studio farted.

[B]

No, I've been holding it in the whole time.

[A]

I don't know if you even caught this, because I did. And I was like, is it embarrassing? Are you embarrassing? No, no, no. You just said. You said on the way out. I was in there. You were premiering the Sarah Jessica Parker episode, which was.

[B]

Okay, so you're like As I said, the president of girls, so. Or like, you're like, you know, you're the number one. You're the reluctant leader. Yes. Father of the country. So I just want to ask you, as your majesty, your highness, Mom. What the answer is to some questions I have about girls. Okay. Okay. So when they say, take these fries away from me, are you supposed to physically do it or do they, like, do they say that it tastes good? Oh, I don't know what to do. Yeah. Fabulous.

[A]

Really? The peak. It's a hard thing to summit.

[B]

The peak is not nice.

[A]

Well.

[B]

Oh, my God. Your peak. Well, your peak was the frost. Nixon over in la.

[A]

Oh, sure.

[B]

With the king of Boston.

[A]

That's right. Fair.

[B]

Okay, let's start again. Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out.

[A]

You told me on the way out. You're like, love you.

[B]

Oh, I say I love you a lot.

[A]

Yeah. And I said I.

[B]

It's. It's embarrassing. Oh, you have issues with that?

[A]

No, I just didn't know if this was. I was kind of calibrating, like, is that. Am I one of many people who he tells that to or did I just.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm a. I'm a hoe. Yeah. No, no, no.

[A]

What's your body count on the. I love you.

[B]

Oh, my God. I'm Chamberlain. Yeah. Neville Chamberlain. Not Will. Ha ha ha. No, it slips out. Yeah, it slips out.

[A]

Genuinely, I.

[B]

It's only two guys.

[A]

Great.

[B]

It's only guys.

[A]

Great.

[B]

I can't say. You can't say. It's like a platonic female friend.

[A]

But not anymore.

[B]

Not anymore. Not in this. Not in this culture. Yeah, that's right. Thanks for having me, dude. Dude.

[A]

It's funny that you have been.

[B]

Can we call a Coronizer?

[A]

I will call Tony Kornheiser at the very end of the episode.

[B]

No way.

[A]

Yes. And we'll see what happens. We'll just see what happens.

[B]

Will he pick up?

[A]

We'll find out. We will authentically find out.

[B]

I'm not gonna be able to stop thinking about it until the end of the episode. Foreign.

[A]

Is upon us. Saturday, College kickoffs. Sundays. Of course, it's the pros. Surfside. Iced teas and lemonades, plus vodka. They got you covered. And it is not a seltzer. How dare you suggest that? It's Surfside. It's 100 calories, 2 grams of sugar, no bubbles. So just ask for Surfside. Wherever you stock up for tailgates or watch parties.

[B]

We.

[A]

Or post game hangs. You gotta be 21 plus, obviously. But please, please drink Responsibly. I want to convey to people that you are. Many people. Many people will be excited that. That you're here. Others, I think, should be introduced to you, maybe. Yes, I. I want to establish that, you know, various headlines that may have appeared in GQ and otherwise.

[B]

Not true.

[A]

I mean, there are photo spreads that indicate all of it.

[B]

Very embarrassing photos.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, You're. What was the headline? I want to get it right.

[B]

Is he the millennial Adolf Hitler?

[A]

I believe it was Adam Friedland. Could be the millennial Jon Stewart, period.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

But does he want that question mark?

[B]

That's as far as I read, actually. I read the first sentence or the first. The beginning of the article I read. And then I was like. I. I got scared and nauseous. I watched my girlfriend read it. I was like. I was like, is it a hit? Where's the hit? She's like, no hits so far. And then it's long. Right.

[A]

It's very. It's exhaustive, and it's. It's very. It is rightfully complimentary.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

I would say that.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Your lip is quivering. In the. In the. In the photo spread with Hef again, just. Just a real crackling, masculine, emotional openness.

[B]

I saw those. They made me take the picture on the floor, like, the sexy one. I was like, can you not use it? And they use it as the main one. I stopped the floor part. I was like, I'm not. Can we not do this? And then they used it. The main one.

[A]

Yeah. They're like, can get that elbow crook at 45 degrees?

[B]

I got basically every comedian's group chat. Just. I. I instantly knew. I was like, everyone's killing me right now. People text me and they were like, this is terror. You look. I hate this.

[A]

I had a photo taken in the studio right over there in front of that vortex for New York magazine, and they had me do a pose at the very end. I was like, can you just, like, hold your. Come on your chin in your hand? And I was like, they're not going to use this.

[B]

And they use it.

[A]

And then I look like, you know, Professor Sexy, one of the sexiest Filipino Dr. Evil.

[B]

Yeah. Pinoy Evil.

[A]

Yeah. You are genuinely beyond being host of Cometown, which is a show that I can't even begin to explain here.

[B]

It was like a comedy podcast. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With naked stuff.

[A]

Super, super influential. And this is very sincere. A super influential, wildly successful, generationally identifying, unscripted, improvisational podcast with you and two friends.

[B]

Yeah. It was like. We just acted like children for an hour. Yeah. It was a comedy podcast that we did for a while and I'd never. We didn't listen. I never listened to it at the time. And on YouTube they're like fan generated clip comps. And I've listened to it since and I was like, it was so fun. We thought it was terrible at the time. We're like, that sucked. But yeah, it was so funny, I guess. Yeah.

[A]

Turns out. Yeah, turns out they were. The fan. The fan clip accounts were onto something.

[B]

I think.

[A]

Fan cams, the Adam fan cams were onto something.

[B]

We had a no media policy that Nick instituted. Quite. Quite intelligent.

[A]

I didn't appreciate this.

[B]

And well, also the name prohibited us from like, I think the. We were like said like a podcast whose name we can't write in. In this fine publication. And, and we. I, I guess that's how the show grew. Right. So. Because like, because of the fans are making these like compilations. We had no idea at the time. It was cool.

[A]

It's the best thing for.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is organic.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. A street team, if you will. Yes.

[A]

A volunteer army.

[B]

Yes. A volunteer army of. Of ugly men. Yes. Yeah.

[A]

Your proud boys were just.

[B]

Come on, dude.

[A]

Come on. You know.

[B]

No, it was hot six pack guys.

[A]

It was sexy also, like, like our staff. A multiracial coalition of very proud boys.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

But I say all that to say that the show that you do now that I visited, it's. It's not that. And it is something that I love.

[B]

Thanks, bro.

[A]

And part of what I love about it genuinely is the sincerity of effort that I witnessed. That is quite real.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You. You're putting work into this and it's not. Let me sit down to see what happens. It's like, no, you're. You're prepping and you're structuring, you're producing.

[B]

Yeah. It was like. I think it was the first time I tried in my life. 35. I decided to try. Well, it was the first time I tried since the lsat.

[A]

Oh God.

[B]

You told me you were going to tell me. What is it?

[A]

That's right.

[B]

What was yours?

[A]

This is an exclusive. I've never said this.

[B]

Yeah. What was.

[A]

I said a lot the first time I got the el.

[B]

You went to heart. I mean.

[A]

No. Well, so I took it. So the. The legend.

[B]

I took three.

[A]

You took three? Yeah, I took two.

[B]

Three. But the second time I thought I. My. My second cousin is a psychiatrist, so I, I told my parents I needed Vyvanse, which is like the most intense add Medication. And I was like, it's gonna make. And, and, and it turns out I'd Being on drugs that my score was not enhanced.

[A]

So.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. What? 1, 2, 3, 1 6.

[A]

161. Oh, wow. 161.

[B]

That's what Ivy League.

[A]

I, I.

[B]

No, no. The first time.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

161.

[A]

161.

[B]

Okay. And the final time was that.

[A]

Wait, did you say your score the second time?

[B]

No, second time is a wash. What does that mean? The. The cuz I was on drugs.

[A]

Oh, okay. So you asked that season.

[B]

Yes. Okay. I was on PE. I thought it was PEDs, but it was. You're getting nervous again. I'm getting the same nervous.

[A]

I know this is real.

[B]

I got the dinosaur game my third time. It. My ass. I would have been the president of the United States if it wasn't for the dinosaur game. No one knows what we're talking about.

[A]

If you don't know. So I recently learned that on the lsat, the most. The thing that I consider. We both consider clearly the most fearsome section is logic games.

[B]

I was. No. Once you figure out the system, you know, they took them off for these snowflakes.

[A]

That's what I was about to say.

[B]

The snowflakes are like.

[A]

They're gone now.

[B]

I can't believe it.

[A]

That's. I mean, it's just, just.

[B]

We should go to law school together.

[A]

We should retro. We should quit retroactively. We should get our stats adjusted.

[B]

We should leave our.

[A]

Our women and start a personal injury law firm.

[B]

Extensive plastic surgery. Start over in a new town.

[A]

Pose for photos at. At very particular angles.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And put them on billboards.

[B]

I think we just wrote a movie.

[A]

I got a 161 the first time.

[B]

Okay, same.

[A]

And then I really Literally same. Oh, my God. Okay, this is getting. This is very relatable.

[B]

So you know what? You beat. You beat me or you didn't beat me last time?

[A]

Yeah, I got a one. Want the second time?

[B]

Whatever, dude.

[A]

So.

[B]

So you think you're better than me?

[A]

I didn't need that to know.

[B]

Did you apply? Did you apply?

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. I never did.

[B]

Oh, I did. I deferred twice to do. And I told my parents I wanted to explore my standup comedy. Oh, man. It was really embarrassing. I came out of the closet as a clown to my parents, and my. My father said he was going to sue me. And I said, that's not how the courts work. He's like, you promised us you'd be a Lawyer. And yeah, so then. And then I told my parents, this is what God has sent me on. It's. Oh, God, it's nauseating to remember that. I think I was too lazy to do law school. So I started doing stand up comedy.

[A]

It's.

[B]

What a stupid idea. What is what a millennial. Like, tell my parents I want to be a. I'm not even good at stand up comedy.

[A]

I told my parents I wanted to be a sports writer.

[B]

That's a real job.

[A]

I don't think it's that much more real than clown.

[B]

I'm so jealous of that job. No, because there's actually. You get. You get paid by a company.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

I was getting drink tickets for 10 years. Yeah. And working as a paralegal. My real passion. Anyway, to go back to what we were saying initially, which was. Yeah, we. We kind of. We changed the show. And Nick. It was Nick Mullins, credit to him like this how everything happened. Like it would start as a joke because I was the least popular. I was the schmuck of Cometown. And we're like, what if we made the least popular guy in Cumtown into like a public intellectual, Dick Cavett esque talk show host? And then it kind of became a real thing. I kind of started to enjoy doing interviews. And now we're three years in and. Yeah, now the show's. You know.

[A]

And now you're like really good friends with Chris Cuomo.

[B]

I think Joe's got it. Really? Yeah. Are you going to vote for Joe Biden? I think when you say he's sick, you mean that he's dying. No, I think he's awesome. Oh, he's got a. He has a Corvette and stuff. I don't know. We'll see. Yeah, I think. I think. I don't know.

[A]

I love the dynamic genuinely.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I mean. Yeah. I did a show on News Nation.

[A]

You have been.

[B]

So I was on a panel with Andrew Yang and I could just tell that. I don't think me and Andrew Yang liked each other.

[A]

I don't. I did not get the sense that you guys were vibing he.

[B]

Well. Cause he was. They were telling me what anti. That the campus protests are killing. That they're killing people at Columbia or something. It was insane. This isn't just about antisemitism. It is about the growth of fundamentalism in America. When you have kids who are openly pro Hamas, it's not just anti Semitism. And you guys are gonna have to vote and donate in a different way and not forget who was for you and who wasn't in this moment? You gotta stop with the kids. As the Jew on the panel. Andrew, you're Jewish or. No, no, I'm Jewa Jason. I'll say this right now. I'm Jewa Jason. We're acting as if kids are protesting at a college and it's the first time ever. No, I mean, we gave $25 billion to a war and kids are protesting it. It's not pro Hamas. It's the most horrible thing in the world. Some of them are very violent. No, it's not. They're kids.

[A]

And there is anti.

[B]

And it was violent on some of these. Oh, okay, listen, guys. People are being attacked and killed. I mean, this has gotten very, very. And it's hateful. There's nothing wrong with being against what's happening in Gaza, but I'm just telling you, I've never seen Americans support terrorism. I don't think that 18 year old, like kids are the problem right now.

[A]

Guys. I got a 169 on the LSI.

[B]

I got a 69 Yang.

[A]

Columbia.

[B]

Okay, I got a 169 Yang. How much money does that get me every year? No. So we started this talk show and now I do interviews and it's been really fun and tomorrow's a big one. We're not gonna say what it is.

[A]

I was gonna say, well, this is, that's the Nixon part of the, of the Frost Nixon.

[B]

You know, he's my favorite, he's my favorite president. In terms of the writing, the writing on Nixon is the best. The writing about the screenwriting of that character is. He's, he's incredible guy. Do you know about. He's a guy that just lost his whole life. And everyone's like, ugh, you're Richard Nixon. He beat Kennedy. And then the America was like, we'd rather have a papist. We'd rather let a papist with a criminal like steal an election than Richard Nixon. Yeah, he was like, he looked ugly at that debate.

[A]

You think JFK benefited from pretty privilege?

[B]

No, I think he benefited from dead people in Illinois voting for him. Probably. What? Okay, but here's the best. One of the best Nixons I'll give you right now.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

When he, he liked Pat, his, who became his wife, and he, he was like, oh, do you want to go out with me? And she was like, no, like you, you're Richard Nixon. And he was like, well, can I chaperone you on dates with other guys? And he did it for 18 months.

[A]

Richard Nixon.

[B]

That's great writing.

[A]

Cucked himself. Well, no, he got to win her heart.

[B]

He broke her. I mean, she broke. She. Yeah, she eventually was like, I'll be with Richard Nixon, I guess. But yeah, he was. He's.

[A]

I think I visited. I did. I was at a wedding in. In California and it was within driving distance of the Presidential.

[B]

Did you go?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah, we love Nixon.

[A]

I got it. I got a shirt of him shaking Elvis's hand. That one.

[B]

That one Elvis was on. Fat Elvis. Yeah, the anti drug thing. Right.

[A]

I believe that's. That must be why Elvis was there.

[B]

Yeah. And he was on a ton of like, speed at the time and fat somehow.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. I mean, he has.

[B]

Which is such a funny idea is that like the kids are going to like Elvis to tell them not to do drugs. So, like, this is that.

[A]

This is exactly why he was there. So King of Rock and Roll visited the White House in 1970 with one goal. This is a subhead of an article to have Nixon grant him a federal narc badge. Which is. That's the. That's the movie.

[B]

That's a Shaquille o' Neal move to be. Yeah.

[A]

Like how Shaq was deputized by Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

[B]

Where's Arpaio? At the. Oh, he's dead. I think he died. Sheriff Joe Maripos. We're just hanging out right now, Googling. This is how we talk to each other. We change the subject every two sentences.

[A]

Sheriff Joe Arpaio is 93 years old and thriving.

[B]

Good for him. You guys are going to enjoy Pablo and I changing the subject 17 times, saying, you remember this guy? Do you remember Mookie Blaylock? Do you remember?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

John Olarud. Well, this will. This will cut down.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. We're definitely going to exhaustively trim this.

[B]

So what's up? How you doing? Can we call Cornheiser?

[A]

Do you consider yourself a journalist now?

[B]

I don't know. What is it? You know the. You. You didn't go to J school?

[A]

No.

[B]

What are like the rules of it?

[A]

Well, that's part of the problem.

[B]

Have I broken any of the rules?

[A]

I don't know. Yeah. But I think part of the issue is that there is no good answer that's widely known to that question. Like what. What does it take? There are certainly the Columbia Journalism School has a philosophy on it. Various other august institutions have journalism programs.

[B]

There's no like DSM of like the rules.

[A]

Yeah. There's no 700 page text that tells You. Whether you're clinically a journalist.

[B]

So. So no one. I mean, but there are journalistic ethics, right?

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

Right. Yeah. I mean, you've worked for news organizations.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

ESPN before. Yeah.

[A]

Sports Illustrated is where I started.

[B]

That's like, a real publication. Right. And they. Who taught you the rules, then? Who's your.

[A]

That's your funny thing is that, like. So my first job, the job that I chose instead of going to apply to law school was as a fact checker. And that was not like a seminar. It was just, like, a thing you started doing. Like, you're truly the lowest rung of a newsroom ladder.

[B]

That's the. That's like the. The mail room.

[A]

Yes. Except in this case, you saw. You saw.

[B]

You're like spo. Strut. You were like. In the tape. You were doing the tape.

[A]

I was grinding.

[B]

Yeah, you're grinding.

[A]

You worked your way up, and you had to cross off every single word and article to make sure it was true. And that really did, like, convey the foremost, I think, principle of whatever journalism should be defined as, which is you have to try and be as accurate as possible. Yeah, I think that's probably task number one. Yeah, but like, journalism to you, how would you define it? Actually, I don't want to just give you my takes.

[B]

I mean, I. When I have, like, a interview that's more substantive, I have, like, a friend of mine who is a journalist who. I mean, we do research for the interviews. And so he. He, like, works on the. Like, a research packet for me, and we, like, talk about. I don't know. I don't really. How would I define it? The newspaper? I don't know. Is that what journalism. I Googled it. When I first started doing interviews, I went on Wikipedia for journalism because I didn't know how to do interviews. And I watched a bunch of different. Like, I was like, who's good at interviews? And I watch Rogan, and what he does is like. He's like. Well, he agrees. Like, he's very exuberant and he like. And easily impressionable. Maybe. I don't know. I'm trying to say it in a nice way. He's a colleague. He's a friend. But, like, he'll have, like, Bernie and he'll be like, that's right.

[A]

Joe Rogan is a great listener. He'll say that. He's a great, active listener.

[B]

Well, when a guest is on the show, they feel like they're crushing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right. So he'll have Bernie, and then he'll have, like, I don't know, like a Holocaust revisionist. And he'll be like, that's trippy. And then because you feel like you're crush, take it out. He's a friend, he's a good whatever. And because people feel like they're being convincing, he can get more out of them.

[A]

I think that part of what Rogan is there though is a really good interviewer. But I think part of the definition of journalism is that that's not exactly the same thing.

[B]

I don't really know what anything is anymore. It's a sk. Schizophrenic world and comedians are now public intellectuals. All I know is this. I really want to be careful not to speak from a position of authority. Like, I hear a lot. There are a lot of people nowadays that think that they. That aren't Wolf Blitzer, that have podcasts that will say things like, I had a Congressman Ro Khanna on. That's why I asked. I can't be like guests. I can't ask him, like, what do you think about HR2 70? Like I'm not a. I don't know, like I'm an idiot. I'm a, like I'm a comedian. Like, you know, I'm not as reclined. So like I'm not. But I can, but I can ask someone like, you know, like no one likes the government. Why do you want to be in the government? Like that I feel like asking really.

[A]

Good questions, which I think you do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think you're really good frankly with people who like seem to regard you as an alien of some kind especially. And. Or people that you seem to not respect a lot.

[B]

Oh, I, I'm not, I'm trying to.

[A]

Genres of guests from my point of view that you have.

[B]

Well, the. I think it, what it is is this is like so like when I watch Rogan, I was like, can I emulate that? Like that. And no, I can't really emulate that because my voice is annoying and Jewish and like, so what I do is what, like what's comes natural to me is that I can just self deprecate. I could be like, listen, like you're sitting next to a guy who pooped his pants on a podcast once.

[A]

And so like that is a factual.

[B]

Yeah, I'm a schmuck. Like so like so America doesn't. People don't like know it alls. Right. It's the same reason why like Fetterman had a, like had a stroke and like was struggling through a debate. But Dr. Oz was such A was so smug that they're like, we're going to vote for the guy that, like, was having trouble talking. Right. So during the Pennsylvania Senate run.

[A]

Yeah, John Fetterman.

[B]

Yeah, John Fetterman and the guy that wears the hoodie to Congress, which is.

[A]

Come on, we can all agree.

[B]

Put on a shirt.

[A]

You know, like, I feel about John Fetterman the way I feel about NBA coaches, honestly, where it's like, you could dress up John.

[B]

But at least they're wearing, like, golf. Like, business. Like, Friday business casual. At least they're wearing, like. Yeah, they're wearing exactly. So, like, what I can do is, like, is if a guest disarms, if I'm like, you know, like, just, you know, like. And if I can, like, make them relaxed, then, you know, if they. If they're self aware enough to realize I don't want to come across as a know it all schmuck, I'd rather, you know, then they'll kind of drop their guard and I can, like, you know, then I can kind of talk to them in a more natural way.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I don't think people are used to talking to someone like, as. As unremarkable and mediocre as me. So, like, them trying to make sense of it, I think is kind of an advantage that I have because I'm so. I'm just like, you know how AI is going to take all of the jobs? Like, I don't think that they can do something that's just so, like, just so nothing of a. You know, I don't think, like a computer could emulate something so stupid and unremarkable. Right. I think that's my advantage in life. I think I'm always going to have a job doing this.

[A]

Do you think Chris Cuomo is going to listen to this and be like, he was working me the whole time?

[B]

No. We got along. I thought.

[A]

Yeah, but that's. That example, by the way, is an. It is like, jock nerd. That was the dynamic immediately established.

[B]

But I. I was done. I was dunking. I think that he was the nerd.

[A]

Well, but that's. That's. I think the joy of it was that it got to. It got to be Chris Cuomo gra. Having to, like, reckon with the fact that you also knew what you were doing. And he started to play along.

[B]

I know ball. Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I know sports, so that's kind of. I think. I think when you're doing interviews, you have to kind of like, it's like, when you're starting stand up, you have to, like, look at the thing. That's when you're selling stand up, you're like, what is fun? Like, what makes my friends laugh. Right. So when I was doing interviews, I was like, what's the thing about me that's like, makes people feel comfortable?

[A]

So this gets me back to, like, the definition of journalism to me, because I think asking really good questions.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Asking them charismatically or strategically, which you've been describing, is not quite journalism. But the thing you just said about who am I doing this for? I think journalism has a defined answer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that answer is, and I'm gonna break out the scare quotes, the public interest. Like, that's who I'm trying to serve. That's the real distinction to me.

[B]

There are like substantive cores of each one of them that I'm trying to get to, but I have to get to it in my way, which is, by the way.

[A]

And I. I am a subscriber and an imitator and somebody who tries to do the same thing. It needs to be stupid to get smart. I believe that as well. Like, fundamentally, if you like.

[B]

I had this, like, Internet debate guy destiny on the show.

[A]

Oh, I know.

[B]

And I know I didn't know who. I didn't really know who he was before I started doing the research, but I saw that everyone who, like, was interfacing with him online. I didn't know that it was a thing that you could be famous for online, which is having an argument. Right. What feels like satisfying for you while you're doing one.

[A]

I don't want to step on any toes and open the most divisive issue ever for a prior guest, but I did a lot of preparation for the Finkelstein interview.

[B]

People said I cooked him way harder than you.

[A]

I don't think that ever. I don't think we ever debated anything.

[B]

Aside since not on your debate. I didn't watch a 17 hour debate on Lex Friedman about Israel where some goy is popping off about my. I'm so everyone. He's like a guy that can read a ton and get all the stats right, and you're not going to get more stats than him. So what I realized was, like, you got to come to someone like that. Everyone's trying to get more stats and more documents than him, and he's going to have more than you. So you have to come to him with no documents and no stats. And that's like kind of what? Like, if I'm approaching someone and saying, like, you know you're wrong, or like, I know and you don't know, then it's going to be adversarial.

[A]

I did high school debate. Destiny is a familiar character.

[B]

Lincoln Douglas. Yeah, we're the bro. We're like the same guy. We're the same guy.

[A]

Let's say our value premise. On three. One, two, three. Justice.

[B]

Just kidding.

[A]

But the thing about Destiny, which I enjoyed in your interview of him, was that you did not try to high school debate him. And I think part of what you do really well, which I admire, is that you find conflict, verbal rhetorical tension while not doing it in the way that a high school debater would. You check facts, insofar as I can tell, but that's important.

[B]

I don't want to be a journalist. I just think that people just don't care anymore. People just aren't reading it. They're probably on Twitter looking at people getting killed and like, well, you could. Twitter is Sodom and Gomorrah these days. It's so scary. I can't look at it anymore.

[A]

Did you see that? Like, that. That stat that, like, a super majority of accounts on Twitter are what? Just bots at this point.

[B]

Really? Yeah, really. So everyone likes Jewish people still? Because I was getting nervous there for a second.

[A]

But I think your point is a fair one also, that, like, the. The reality of how we get news and probably more people are like, you.

[B]

Know, Rogan's probably getting 10 times more people than Anderson Cooper every day.

[A]

But as a sports fan, to bring it back to the guy, that was the peak of my career. I also think that, like, modern journalism, like, what Bill Simmons did in sports is a really good way forward.

[B]

Actually, we should disclose sports is doing good, you're saying.

[A]

I think that identifying your fandom and not pretending like you're this omniscient voice from nowhere.

[B]

Oh, being a objective. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, just disclose it. Yeah, it's okay.

[B]

I respect that about him as a Laker fan, even.

[A]

And that's by the way. So our friendship really did escalate. When I'm like, all right, Adam loves to phone call people.

[B]

I. It's. People get really annoyed by it. But yeah, I'm a phone call guy, which I.

[A]

So is Tony Kornizer, by the way. Like, just refuses to have the deposition records, the discovery. Refuses that. But the point being that, like.

[B]

You.

[A]

As unapologetic Laker fan, calling me and talking for an hour about your fandom, I'm like, you still can be somebody who writes or covers Sports. As a fan, you just got to disclose that part.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And that's okay.

[B]

But the NBA media is just all Boston. Yeah, right.

[A]

The Boston. You know, the Greenhead, our friends and Andrew Quell at cookies.

[B]

Those people.

[A]

Those people. The. The Boston media. Muffin. The little green hand.

[B]

Yes. I'm out of the closet as a Laker fan, and people just be aware of that. But, you know, it doesn't feel.

[A]

You're unhinged.

[B]

I need him. I need him. Who is. It doesn't feel the same with him as it felt with my.

[A]

Yeah. Capital.

[B]

When the Lakers won in the bubble. I, like, thought. Thirty seconds later, I'm like, it's different. Oh, he's never going to be our. He's never going to be my guy. Him. I don't know. I'm a Kobe fan. And you know what kids do nowadays? They're player fans.

[A]

Oh. This is the biggest problem for the NBA as a.

[B]

As a business, really.

[A]

Yeah. Is that kids don't watch games. They follow players.

[B]

Does it make more sense, though? I think it's kind of. That makes more sense. Right?

[A]

It's a. By the way, that's exactly what's happening in media.

[B]

It's like, I'm not like a Genie bus fan. Right. I'm not like a. Or like an outfit now a Mark.

[A]

Walter, your new owner.

[B]

Yeah. We're going to do great things. Yeah. We're going to do some huge things.

[A]

Also a friend, but. But truly, like, that whole thing, though, of, like, young people would rather consume an individual's stuff. Joe Rogan, instead of fill in the blank institution.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, too, is it in sports fandom where I'm not paying attention so much to the team, I'm paying attention to my favorite guy, whoever my favorite individual creator is.

[B]

That's sweet. Yeah.

[A]

That's real. That's how. That's how kids are apparently demographically trending.

[B]

Yeah. It. What's interesting is that I think that we didn't know who guys were, like, prior to, like, social media and stuff. Right. Like, we did. We thought, like, MJ hung out with Bugs Bunny every day. We thought, like, we didn't know that he was, like, sociopath. He had hate in his gut. You know, we just thought he was, like, just a car, like a nice guy because he was so insulated by Nike and by the NBA. By the way, David Stern, the Last.

[A]

Dance is another good case study. And, like, is this journalism? So my friend Jason Hare directed it. He does not identify as a journalist, but what he got Michael Jordan to say in which he's crying, articulating his code of honor.

[B]

I don't have to do this.

[A]

I'm only doing it because it is who I am.

[B]

That's how I played the game.

[A]

That was my mentality.

[B]

If you don't want to play that way, don't play that way. Break.

[A]

That's also, like, supreme. Perfect. Interviewing to get that part.

[B]

Not the goat, not your goat, not my goat.

[A]

But you're, you're, you're, you're.

[B]

What I'm saying. What I'm saying is, like, I feel really bad. Well, like, the distance between. It's. I hate this word. Like, but the creator and then the consumer is blurred.

[A]

Like the, the music production and there's a worker.

[B]

There's a really good, like, interview. David Bowie, like, in the 1990s, where he, like, predicts the Internet, right? Where he's like, the distance between the Beatles and Elvis and then the fans was just light years. Right. And what the computer is going to do is it's going to blur it. I think we're actually on the cusp of something exhilarating and terrifying. It's just a tool, though, isn't it? No, it's not.

[A]

No.

[B]

Now it's an alien life form. What do you think? I mean, when you think then about, is there life on Mars? Yes, it's just landed here. But that's. It's simply a different delivery system there. You're arguing about something more profound. Oh, yeah. I'm talking about the. The actual context and the state of content is going to be so different to anything that we can really envisage at the moment where the interplay between the user and the provider will be so in sympatico. It's going to. It's going to crush our ideas of what mediums are all about. So now everyone gets mad at LeBron for. For every single day for, like, trying to do something and then stepping like Sideshow Bob stepping on a rake. But I feel like now you have.

[A]

Empathy for that part of his life. I mean, like, when he liked perfect booties on Instagram and it got caught and Screenshot.

[B]

I have empathy for the fact that, like, he's kind of the beta tester of this. He's different, dude.

[A]

He's our generation. LeBron is the first millennial, Jon Stewart, Michael Jordan generation.

[B]

And because he's the main guy, like, Steph can go to. To, like, what's that guy? That concert. Benson Boone concert. And like, if LeBron wore that hat at a Benson Boom concert, LeBron would have gotten killed. What I'm fascinated by is, like, there are all these, like, you know, you could read an infinite stream of opinions about you, right? Like, there were three newspapers MJ could read, and, you know, he'd have the journalist killed. And then they, you know, whatever. Um, but these guys, like, what. What I've come to understand is that these guys, that all of them are like, LeBron does consume the Labom accounts, even if he's not burner.

[A]

Okay, so I. This is this.

[B]

So this is where that drives me insane.

[A]

What I should reveal to our audience is that you.

[B]

Don'T get me in trouble now too.

[A]

No, but you're the number one person who persuaded me to look into. Did LeBron go to the Kobe Bryant Memorial?

[B]

I told my dad that, and he's like, you just ruined the playoff run. He's like, the playoffs are about to start. He's like, why are you ruining the season?

[A]

You convinced this podcaster to talk to people to establish that he never showed up.

[B]

Okay, this is an interesting thing that.

[A]

I'd love to, but you were the person who were like, you should look into this. And I did, and you were correct.

[B]

But let's be Christian for a second, okay? The two of us are God fearing Christian men, right? We never saw Michael be nice, like, be, like, tender ever. Right? He was at his hall of Fame speech, drunk, talking about Byron Russell. He's like, if he wants to come see me, it's like, the who. No one remembers Byron Russell except for free like us.

[A]

Ryan.

[B]

The first. Yeah, the first. Was it by everybody?

[A]

I know Everybody's.

[B]

How do you. Is it.

[A]

Is this Brian Baron scene?

[B]

Okay, anyway, can you imagine is different?

[A]

Yeah. B R Y O N for.

[B]

Can you imagine, like, the first time we ever see mj? Like, and it was a beauty. It was one of the most beautiful moments ever where he said, there was this kid and he bothered me and he annoyed me. And he used to call me in the middle of the night, and I was like, this guy. And I realized he's like a little brother. And he was in pain about Kobe at the memorial. And they. And he's like, I love this person. And if we accept the premise that MJ won't even speak, according to your former colleague Stephen a. Smith, that MJ won't even acknowledge LeBron's existence? Can you imagine how painful he wore 23 growing up? Can you imagine watching Michael, who ignores you and thinks you suck and, like, and has been torturing you, probably through the media for the last 20 years about. And somehow the goat debate is a thing. When we see a guy who's 40 and 20, what was he, 24, 8 and 8 last year at 40, can you imagine how terrible that would have been for LeBron?

[A]

The stakes of that memorial service could not have been more emotionally profound. Yeah, like that all is real. Like the Shakespearean whole. Like there is everybody. Like Michael Jordan is in the way that Bill Belichick has been like America's emotionally unforgiving dad.

[B]

But he was nice to Kobe.

[A]

But he then reveals, after Kobe is not around to hear it, that he had always had this tender spot for this guy who was like trying Michael Jordan. You're actually tearing up.

[B]

It makes me want to cry.

[A]

This is I again, I love the utter sincerity around your fandom.

[B]

You know that? Do you know the. The Michael Jackson story?

[A]

What is. What is the.

[B]

You don't know the Michael Jackson story?

[A]

Wait, about Kobe, about Kobe.

[B]

So Kobe studied the greats, right?

[A]

It was like in his office, it was like Steve Jobs.

[B]

Oh, God. Yeah, it was corny sometimes, the way he talked about it. But like, it'd be cool because every summer he'd come back and he'd like go to Houston for a summer and then have the dream shake. He'd like add a new weapon every summer.

[A]

I love. I love that.

[B]

Yeah, I love that. I love that. We love that. Bald headed Kobe slam dunk champion rookie was a babe. He was a 17, right? And on that first off season, he's like, I need to get a man's body right. So he was in Gold's gym and he's lifting weights in Marina del Rey, California. And he gets a call and he picks up and he goes, kobe, it's Mako. And he's like, this is a prank. And he hangs up. And the person calls back. He's like, kobe, it's Mako. I want you to come to Neverland. And he goes out to Santa Barbara. Tell me if I fact check.

[A]

No, so far this is accurate fact check. It was a Gold gym.

[B]

He was. How did I get that right? Okay. He was at Planet Fitness. And anyway, he goes out to Santa Barbara, Neverland and Michael, apparently they have this conversation. Michael's like, listen, I see you. And you're like me. And people are going to heap you with praise. People are going to give you everything and tell you you're incredible.

[A]

This is a paraphrase, but the quote from the story. Oh, it is. This is Kobe recalling how inside the French Normandy residence, otherwise known as Neverland a 2700 acre cornucopia of childlike delights. According to this. ESPN the Magazine. Yeah, yeah, it's great. Only good things happen there. The two men share a meal of marinated chicken and organic vegetables. He told me, quote, this is what you love. This is your obsession. Brian recalls. He said, I know what it's like to be different. Embrace it.

[B]

Yeah. Michael's like, they're gonna give you everything and they're gonna take it away. And every. And everyone. Everyone's gonna love you. And every. Then all of a sudden, everyone's gonna hate you.

[A]

This is where.

[B]

And you cannot stop.

[A]

This is where. Michael shows him the smooth. He shows him like.

[B]

And he gives him a book.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he shows him footage of Kobe. Had never heard of Grace Kelly, Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers before this private screening by Michael Jackson, in which he explains the inspiration for Smooth Criminal, by the way. But the book. Do you remember the book?

[B]

Jonathan Livingston Siegel. It's a book about a bird who wants to fly higher than any other bird.

[A]

A novella about an outcast bird who's unwilling to conform.

[B]

And he said, we are that bird. And when everyone hates you, you cannot stop being great.

[A]

So again, like, I'm laughing because he's a mad lib, but it's also you're.

[B]

And it is. It is. What happened in Kobe's career where, like, he went emotionally.

[A]

This is exactly right.

[B]

He went evil Kobe after Shaq, basically, he got blamed for the breakup of that team. And it wasn't his fault. It was the. Much more the buses, right? They say that Kobe broke up that team and then Shaq is at a club wins. It basically rides D. Wade's coattails to a chip. And then he's at a club and he's saying, tell me how my ass tastes. It's about big AKA Big Shaq. Now that's the difference between first and last play. Kobe, tell me how my ass tastes. And everyone's laughing at Kobe.

[A]

That's a great. That is a great clip.

[B]

It's not that great. Yeah. Well, let's start.

[A]

I love Sheriff Shaquille o' Neal rapping.

[B]

Okay. That you're going to play the Detroit Pistons and then the referees are not going to call a single foul against you guys.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

That serious. You want to hear really funny?

[A]

You got beaten by.

[B]

By.

[A]

By Ben Wallace by a 6 foot 2 center.

[B]

He played big, though.

[A]

I mean, he was amazing.

[B]

He played big. My. My dad, I think like four minutes before we were about to lose those Finals. My, My. My dad said he stood up and he goes, we never go on family walks. And, and he's like, every. We. And he's like. And he's like, put your shoes on, everyone. And me, my sister, my mom went on a walk with my dad where he was like five feet ahead of us, like, walking as fast as he could because he was so mad. Just working out rage. And so, so. But anyway, yeah, apparently Michael was like, do not ever stop trying to, like, be with your obsession. Do not ever stop, like, trying to be as great as you could possibly be. Go 4 for 28 every single night.

[A]

In your last game, and then you will take 1 million field goal attempts.

[B]

That is the most score 60. Oh, shut up. That is the most beautiful sports memory of my entire lifetime. I cried. I. I legitimately called my father and we were both crying because. Do you remember that last season?

[A]

I watched, I watched that game that whole season was, was terrible. It was a very nauseating, nauseating retirement farewell tour.

[B]

Well, no, it was so engineered by the league. Every stadium that was like, like, you know, everyone acted like there were Kobe fans.

[A]

Exactly. That's what was everyone so annoying about. It was like it was a record. Video tribute.

[B]

Every stadium did a video tribute. And we were saying goodbye to him and he was done. His legs, his knees were gone. He sucked. And like, we were seeing him, he had that double digit, like, points streak that he was scoring like six, you know, on. On 28 attempts or something. Like, it was heartbreaking. It was like, why are you doing this? It's like nauseating. And we got him back one night. We got it.

[A]

It was, it's. God, theatrically, it was perfect. No sport is, I think, narratively, theatrically more interesting on an individual level because again, it's like there's no better seat in sports, by the way, than being on the court for a basketball game. It's like being on stage during a play.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And so you see the faces, you see the tears. You hear everything like it is theater. And so the NBA has these individualized, like, virtuoso performances. And the problem is that the kids today, the kids today, like, they.

[B]

These goddamn three pointers.

[A]

But no, but they individualized that phenomenon to the exclusion of, of actual games relative to us, relative to our parents, certainly. And that's like the gift became the curse.

[B]

But the thing that we're talking about, I think the kids can understand because the beautiful moments are a 17 win team, like winning that one game or Michael Jordan, like the. This guy that We've never seen be, like, this beautiful moment in this beautiful speech or KD talking to his mom. I mean, it's just like, you have to.

[A]

You're the real MVP that.

[B]

I mean, that's one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. When you didn't eat, you made sure we ate. You went to sleep hungry. You sacrificed for us. You the real mvp. Because it's like, you create narrative, and we love, like, to follow these people's careers.

[A]

Human. Human.

[B]

And follow these stories. Right. And that's part of the reason why Tiger makes me so sad. Because, like. And when he won the Masters and when he went. And I cried when he won the Masters because. Because we're at the eight, we. Did you have SI for kids?

[A]

Of course. Like, Buzz Beamer.

[B]

Do you know Grant Hill was big on in our era?

[A]

Well, Grant Hill was like. He was like, the role model. He played the piano.

[B]

He was a nice boy. Yeah. He went to. Dude.

[A]

His dad went to Yale.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

He went to Duke.

[B]

Well, so Tiger was, like, the good boy. Right? And then we found out that he had. He got ladies or something. And then.

[A]

Yeah. The Perkins.

[B]

And, you know, and then he went away.

[A]

Like, we felt, like, deeply broken physically.

[B]

Yeah. From thinking that he's on Team Six.

[A]

Well, he did do all those Navy SEAL exercises. His dad did. Used to say that he believed that Tiger would be on par, if not in excess of Gandhi, when it came to his impact upon the world.

[B]

When we were kids, we were like, this guy's the greatest of all time. And he's also kind of a kid. Right. And he's winning tournaments by, like, 19 strokes. And we're like, this is awesome. Like, we're part of this thing right now. And then he dis. He went away. We didn't get. We didn't get to see him anymore. And then he came back and won the Masters one time, and it was like we saw our friend again one time, and it was like, I miss. I missed you.

[A]

Like, yes.

[B]

It's. It's. That's. That's part of the same, I guess. I love ball. I just love sports.

[A]

Very obvious to me that your genuine love of ball is, like, the thing you're most passionate about.

[B]

I care about sports more than comedy. I hate. I don't care. I like songs and sports.

[A]

Songs. Yeah.

[B]

I like movies. Movies, songs, and sports. That's what.

[A]

Which is why Shaquille o' Neal is criminally underrated in your personal hall of fame as a recording artist, as a Actor, recording artist, and, yeah, ball player.

[B]

All right, so what is journalism?

[A]

I think we should call at the end here, can we call coordinaiser Tony Cornheiser and see if he'll tell us what it is?

[B]

Oh, this is. That's a good button on the episode. You're a real pro, dude.

[A]

You think?

[B]

I. That's a great button on the episode.

[A]

I'm trying. I'm trying to land the plane here.

[B]

Land this plane. He better please pick up. This would be one of the best days of my life. I love him so much.

[A]

I know. It's. I mean, same. Here we go. Here we go.

[B]

Do you remember being home sick from school and watching.

[A]

They're about to take pti, but we can sneak in. Let's see. Because.

[B]

Is Wilbond there?

[A]

Wilbon's gonna be way late, so I think we have time. Here we go. Hold on.

[B]

Oh, my God, I'm so nervous. Please. Hi, you've reached my voicemail. This is good enough message. See what happens. What do you want to say, Mr. Kornizer? Big fan. Adam Freeland. I. I just. You know, I would honestly, if you'd like to come on the Adam freelance.

[A]

Oh, come on.

[B]

Sorry. Yeah, I just. I'm with Pablo right now and I just wanted to say what is.

[A]

What is journalism Question mark?

[B]

Yeah, but he's. It's his voicemail. He's like. Is he gonna call us back?

[A]

Probably.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Just. Yeah. I was wondering. What Journalism.

[A]

Love you.

[B]

Oh, love you. Did we get it?

[A]

Pablo Torre Finds out is produced by Walter Abaroma, Maxwell Carney, Ryan Cortez, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, neely Loman, Rob McRae, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor and Chris Tuminello. RStudio Engineering by RG Systems Sound Design by NGW Post Theme song, as always, by John Bravo and we will talk to you next time.