The Last Bromance: How Wrestling Corrupted the NBA Finals

Podcast: Pablo Torre Finds Out
Host: Pablo Torre (Le Batard & Friends)
Guests: Neil Punsalon (comedy writer, wrestling aficionado), Diamond Dallas Page, Eric Bischoff, Bill Winnington, Bob Costas
Date: June 6, 2025

Episode Overview

Pablo Torre and guest Neil Punsalon take listeners on an investigative, tongue-in-cheek journey into how professional wrestling not only influenced but may have fundamentally “corrupted” the 1998 NBA Finals (Bulls vs. Jazz). They argue that Dennis Rodman and Karl Malone were “working” wrestling angles in-game, promoting an upcoming WCW pay-per-view, blurring the line between legitimate sports and sports entertainment. Through colorful storytelling and evidence (“exhibits”), the show questions the integrity of that famed Finals and, by extension, sports culture at large.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting up the Case: Everything is Pro Wrestling

• Intro (00:17 - 05:42):
  Neil Punsalon frames his argument: "By the end of this, the NBA is going to put a hit on me."
  Pablo emphasizes the metaphor: "The unifying theory of modern American life now is that everything is pro wrestling. The presidency is wrestling." (05:42)
• Crossover Culture:
  Pablo and Neil cite celebrity events, beefs, and presidential actions as examples of pro wrestling style kayfabe crossing into other walks of public life (06:00).

2. History of Pro Wrestling’s Rise & Rivalries

• Wrestling Goes National (08:38 - 14:32):
  Neil gives context about wrestling’s regional roots, Vince McMahon’s consolidation (WWF), and how Ted Turner (media mogul) countered with WCW.
  Eric Bischoff introduces innovations such as live TV, driving the Monday Night Wars. Hulk Hogan’s pivotal “heel turn” and the rise of the nWo (New World Order) are highlighted as game-changers for sports entertainment.

3. Rodman & Malone’s Wrestling Ties

• The Wrestling Recruitment of NBA Stars (15:01 - 20:57):
  Rodman’s celebrity, eccentricity, and wrestling interests, culminating in his nWo involvement, are discussed. Karl Malone’s childhood passion for wrestling—“He dreamed of becoming a professional wrestler”—emerges via a Diamond Dallas Page anecdote.
  Both men had crossed paths as NBA rookies sharing a room, underscoring their real-life rapport.

4. The Master Plan: Bash at the Beach and the NBA Finals

• The Setup (21:27 - 25:10):
  After DDP and Malone’s friendly meetings, the wrestling world sees an opportunity: leverage their NBA fame for a blockbuster crossover.
  Eric Bischoff: "If I could tap into the sports media...I couldn't buy $2 million worth of press and get nearly what I got." (25:10)
• Infiltrating the Finals (26:05 - 29:00):
  The core of Neil’s conspiracy: Rodman and Malone, two willing wrestling fans, orchestrated on-court incidents during the NBA Finals explicitly to promote their upcoming match at “Bash at the Beach.”

5. The Evidence: Breaking Down the 1998 Finals

• From Game 1 to Game 6 (29:28 - 41:29):
  Neil walks Pablo (and listeners) through select moments—off-ball entanglements, trips, scuffles, and Malone’s diamond-cutter gesture—arguing these were deliberate pro wrestling promos (“exhibits A–F”).
  Pablo’s reaction: "Game recognized game, Neil…I did not know you'd have A, B, C, D, E, F. Escalating to a level of proof…” (40:48)
• Expert Witnesses:
  • Bill Winnington (Chicago Bulls, 37:12–39:29) is brought in for perspective. He concedes it's "free advertising" for wrestling, admitting “they’re both smart businessmen.”
  • Bob Costas (legendary NBC broadcaster): “There was no real animosity because they patted each other on the butt. You could tell it was all fake.” (47:06)

6. On-Court “Kayfabe”: The Smoking Gun?

• Final Exhibits (41:34 - 52:05):
  The infamous “entanglement” (Game 6 scrum between Rodman and Malone) is replayed as the culmination. Bob Costas, even at the time, called for a flagrant foul, underscoring how the event felt overtly performative.
  More butt-slaps and exaggerated reactions are shown in Last Dance outtakes (46:12), reinforcing the “working” claim.
• Pablo’s Summation:
  “Now I know that there are so many more ass slaps than I had anticipated. These men are guilty.” (46:50)

7. Did it Matter? The Legacy & the Aftermath

• Impact and Result:
  Bash at the Beach ‘98 was a commercial success (52:05), though not critically celebrated as wrestling.
  Neil: “Most professional wrestling matches with non-professional wrestlers... It can’t be super great. Rodman spat on DDP… Malone is legitimately picking dudes up and slamming them… he’s a beast.”
• GOAT Debate Implications:
  Neil facetiously calls for an asterisk on Jordan’s 6th title, for “delegitimizing” the Finals (54:00).
  “If the main tenant to the idea that Michael Jordan is the greatest player ever rests on the numbers... I am going at title number six by saying that title has been delegitimized.” (54:38)
  Costas concludes: “I think that’s one of the most inane arguments I’ve ever heard.” (55:42)
  Pablo: “May God have mercy on your soul.” (55:53)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Neil Punsalon (00:56):
  “I now firmly believe by the end of this, the NBA is going to put a hit on me. I think they’re coming after me.”
• Pablo Torre (05:42):
  “The unifying theory of modern American life now is that everything is pro wrestling. The presidency is wrestling.”
• Eric Bischoff (13:10):
  “Nobody... really looked at WCW as a competitor to WWE. They were so far ahead of us. We were an afterthought. And I needed to change that perception within Madison Avenue...”
• Diamond Dallas Page (20:34):
  “[Karl Malone] did not dream of becoming a basketball player. He dreamed of becoming a professional wrestler.”
• Bob Costas (47:06):
  “There was no real animosity because they patted each other on the butt. You could tell it was all fake. But here’s the thing. Why does that low-grade fakery find a place in something that is the highest grade of legitimate sports drama?”
• Neil Punsalon (53:43):
  “Undoubtedly, without question, those two men are working a professional wrestling angle during the 1998 NBA Finals. And... it needs to be asterisked.”
• Bob Costas (55:42):
  “I think that’s one of the most inane arguments I’ve ever heard.”

Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:17–05:42: Setup; everything is pro wrestling; stakes established.
• 08:38–14:32: Wrestling’s national rise; WCW v. WWF history.
• 15:01–20:57: Rodman/Malone’s wrestling history; DDP’s stories.
• 21:27–29:00: WCW’s deal with the NBA stars; how wrestling “infiltrated” the Finals.
• 29:32–41:29: Game-by-game breakdown; exhibit-fueled “court case.”
• 37:12–39:29: Bill Winnington testimony: “free advertising.”
• 41:34–46:50: Game 6 “entanglement”; Bob Costas confirms suspicions.
• 52:05–52:28: Bash at the Beach aftermath.
• 54:00–55:42: GOAT asterisk debate.
• 55:42–55:53: Pablo’s final judgment and closing banter.

Tone & Style

This episode is playful yet relentless, mixing pop-cultural analysis, sports nerdery, and legal drama tropes (“Your Honor, I have exhibits...”). Guests and the host maintain a winking tone, but the investigation is serious in its research and argumentation, nodding to the absurd while mining real questions about sports, celebrity, and reality.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode:

• If you ever wondered just how much of sports is theater, this podcast pulls back the curtain with compelling, hilarious, and sometimes unnerving evidence.
• The episode challenges not only the validity of a famous championship but also the authenticity of sports drama, through the lens of the wrestling “kayfabe” mentality—the performance of reality.
• Whether you buy Neil’s “asterisk” conclusion or not, you’ll never see Dennis Rodman—nor the 1998 NBA Finals—the same way again.