Episode Overview

Podcast: Pablo Torre Finds Out
Episode: The Sporting Class: Cooperstown Prom Kings, WNBA Protests & What Owners Want
Date: August 1, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Guests: John Skipper, David Samson

This episode dives deep into the intersections of business, labor disputes, and sports culture, with a wide-ranging discussion centered around the Baseball Hall of Fame induction weekend, the WNBA's labor movement and protests, and a candid examination of how sports team owners think about money, value, and power. Pablo is joined by his recurring "Sporting Class" panel—John Skipper (former ESPN president, co-owner of Unrivaled) and David Samson (former MLB exec, Marlins president)—for an unfiltered talk that oscillates between insider reflections, philosophy of ownership, player activism, and the reality behind team valuations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Catching Up and Scene Setting

• The episode begins with convivial banter about the panelists’ clothing and recent whereabouts, setting a casual, irreverent tone.
• John Skipper was recently traveling, while David Samson recounts being at Cooperstown for Hall of Fame weekend, which ties into the theme of "immortality" in sports.

[04:22–10:23] Cooperstown, Hall of Fame Weekend, and Ichiro’s Speech

Highlights:

• David Samson attended Hall of Fame weekend as Ichiro Suzuki’s guest; Ichiro acknowledged Samson in his induction speech.
  • “My name was called out in a Hall of Fame acceptance speech by the greatest player maybe ever.” — David Samson (07:37)
• The group discusses the unique culture and camaraderie among Hall of Famers, the experience of introducing one’s son to legends, and what makes Cooperstown special.

Quote:
“A special weekend. I would only tell you that if you have an opportunity to go to Cooperstown and to witness the hall of Fame in Cooperstown to me, shows the history of our sport... It's just a better hall of Fame.” — David Samson (10:03)

[10:23–19:10] WNBA All-Star, Player Protests, and “Pay Us What You Owe Us”

Highlights:

• The panel unpacks the visible WNBA player protests at All-Star Weekend, especially player and fan calls for increased pay.
• John Skipper outlines basic economics: player demands to correlate revenue or social metrics with pay are “specious logic.” Salaries, he explains, can only come out of actual league revenues due to persistent losses.
  • “What matters—these are businesses, right? ...They have revenues. They can only pay the player salaries from those revenues.” — John Skipper (13:01)
• Samson critiques the “you owe us” rhetoric, noting that labor negotiations don’t retroactively fix perceived past underpayments.

Quote:
“The shirt said ‘pay us what you owe us’... When someone says you owe me money...that’s gotta be the basis of an agreement where someone’s done their side of the bargain. Because there is no way in the history of labor and management...you say ‘you owe me this, so give me this in this agreement’...that’s literally ridiculous.” — David Samson (15:41)

[19:10–24:29] Economics of WNBA Deals—Nesting Dolls and Revenue Splits

Highlights:

• Pablo pushes for a fair division: “What would be fair for the players to request as a matter of percentage of the pot?” (16:57)
• The group explains how WNBA's media deal is nested inside the NBA's, artificially inflating perceptions of WNBA rights value.
• Skipper and Samson describe owner priorities: recouping losses and using new revenues to pay down decades of debt, not just player salaries.
• Skipper notes at most, the NBA players get a 48–51% revenue split; reaching an analogous arrangement in WNBA is complex because “what exactly is the revenue?”

[24:29–30:38] Valuation vs. Profit—Do Owners Really Lose Money?

Highlights:

• Skipper challenges narratives of "poor owners," noting team valuations far outweigh small annual operating losses.
  • "I don't have any concern for the billionaires who own teams and are losing pocket change on a WNBA team..." — John Skipper (26:49)
• Samson insists that even wealthy owners care about losses and asset performance.
• The conversation becomes more philosophical—the overlap of socialism and capitalism in sports team economics, with Pablo concluding:
  • “It's always the unholy amalgamation of rank capitalism and also socialism, when convenient.” — Pablo Torre (27:38)
• The group debates whether sports should be run strictly for profit or also for prestige (“trophy value”) and team appreciation.

[30:38–39:40] Leverage, Rival Leagues, and the Future of Player Power

Highlights:

• Discussion turns to the threat/motivation posed by competing leagues like Unrivaled (Skipper’s venture) and Athletes Unlimited.
• Skipper argues competition (from Unrivaled) ultimately increases visibility and market for women’s basketball, while Samson notes any real competition would threaten the WNBA’s leverage.
  • “If you're the WNBA...you don't really want Unrivaled around because it has a deleterious impact on your business and on the way your business is perceived.” — David Samson (35:17)
• Samson critiques the idea of tying player compensation to team valuations instead of revenues, as suggested by Steph Curry:
  • “How come you all have a collective bargaining agreement where your salaries are tied to revenue, not valuation?” — David Samson (38:40)

Memorable Exchange:
Skipper’s Freudian slip:
“They should have the foreskin to pay 'em. Foresight. Well, please.” (39:40)

[39:40–47:50] Team Valuations, Startup Mentality, and the Art Market Analogy

Highlights:

• The hosts discuss the speculative nature of sports franchise valuations, likening it to art or startups—worth is realized only on sale, not during year-to-year operations.
  • “You’re describing... a very precious thing... in which the full monetary upside can only be realized at a point of sale.” — Pablo Torre (45:13)
• Skipper explains that many sports team investors buy into “the vision” rather than short-term profit.
• Samson emphasizes the necessity of business fundamentals—runway, sources and uses of capital, and the need for a path to operational sustainability.

[47:50–End] Philosophy of Ownership & Candid Numbers

Highlights:

• Samson states the Marlins sold for $1.2 billion, affirming that ultimate value was determined by “supply and demand.”
• The hosts agree that much of the debate about player pay and owner losses comes down to who has the leverage to bargain, and the realities of what gets split (actual annual revenue, not pie-in-the-sky valuations).
• The final moments revisit the fact that, despite all the complexity, most owners buy teams for trophy value and eventual resale, not annual profit alone.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Hall of Fame:
  “My name was called out in a Hall of Fame acceptance speech by the greatest player maybe ever.” — David Samson (07:37)

• On WNBA Revenue Split:
  “The salary should correlate...to [attendance, following], and it has almost nothing to do with the ratings. That is the most specious logic going on.” — John Skipper (13:01)

• On Owner Incentives:
  “Nobody buys a team who can’t afford not to make money on it.” — John Skipper (42:23)

• On the Socialism/Capitalism Mix:
  “It's always the unholy amalgamation of rank capitalism and also socialism, when convenient.” — Pablo Torre (27:38)

• On Valuations vs. Revenue:
  “How come you all have a collective bargaining agreement where your salaries are tied to revenue, not valuation?” — David Samson (38:40)

• Skipper's slip:
  “They should have the foreskin to pay 'em. Foresight. Well, please.” — John Skipper (39:40)
  (Leads to much laughter and Pablo riffing on Freudian slips.)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:40–04:22: Banter, catching up, clothing discussion, Pablo’s podcast ranking
• 04:22–10:23: Cooperstown reflections, being Ichiro's guest, Hall of Fame stories
• 10:23–19:10: WNBA All-Star protest and pay debate—unpacking fan/player messaging and economic realities
• 19:10–24:29: How WNBA’s media/TV deal works; revenue vs. valuation in CBA context
• 24:29–30:38: Owners’ perspectives on losses vs. asset appreciation
• 30:38–39:40: Rival leagues' impact; player leverage; tying pay to valuations
• 39:40–47:50: Startups, team purchases, and the “art market” analogy for sports franchises
• 47:50–End: Selling the Marlins, returns to core arguments about profit, leverage, and values in sports team ownership

Tone and Style

• The conversation is spirited, witty, and often irreverent, with plenty of inside jokes, personal barbs, and playful jabs.
• Pablo keeps the discussion both structured and organic, expertly weaving between personal anecdotes, economic analysis, and big-picture questions about sports and society.

This was a quintessential "Sporting Class" episode: part sports media insider roundtable, part economics seminar, and part stand-up roast—a must-listen for anyone wanting to understand not just what happens in sports business, but why.