The Sporting Class: What You Can’t Control, with David Samson

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Pablo Torre Finds Out
Episode: The Sporting Class: What You Can’t Control, with David Samson
Date: October 3, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Guest: David Samson (former Miami Marlins President, co-host of Nothing Personal)

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Episode Overview

This emotionally raw episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out explores themes of control, helplessness, and the unpredictability of life through an intimate conversation between Pablo Torre and David Samson. The driving force of the discussion is Samson’s recent and ongoing crisis: his daughter's sudden, critical illness. The episode balances David’s personal vulnerabilities with his trademark candor about sports, power, and his own flaws, weaving in stories about the executive world of Major League Baseball and philosophical musings about meaning, control, and consequence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. David Samson's Current Life Crisis

• [05:08] David reveals he’s taken a two-week hiatus from his podcast, Nothing Personal, due to his daughter's sudden critical illness. He describes the shock, the uncontrollable nature of the situation, and the impact on his life and work.
  • Quote: “All I can do is take care of her and my other children and my family. The nightmare is that there’s nothing you can do. There’s no escape.” ([05:08], David Samson)
• He’s candid about his ongoing struggle—feeling trapped, unable to find meaning—and openly admits he was not emotionally ready to talk about it until now.

2. The Illusion and Loss of Control

• [07:17] – [08:33] The central theme is David’s lifelong desire for control—both in trivial daily matters and in high-stakes decision-making—and the crushing irony that he now has no control over his most important problem.
  • Quote: “The irony. I don't have control over anything. Nothing. I can't control when the doctors call... I can't control one thing.” ([07:34], David Samson)
• David contrasts mundane frustrations (“the piece of tape on the side of the table”) with the existential powerlessness he now feels.
• He describes coping mechanisms, such as obsessively biking to the hospital, as attempts to regain a sense of agency.

3. Navigating the American Healthcare System

• [17:30] – [19:49] David rails against the inefficiencies, jargon, and alienation of dealing with the healthcare and insurance matrix, despite his relative privilege and connections.
  • Quote: “I have so many advantages...which is another source of, of guilt that is, that weighs on me like a 2,000 pound weight...but it doesn't even matter.” ([19:06], David Samson)
• He shares how even leveraging high-status relationships (former MLB owners, executives) isn’t enough to change the course of a truly personal crisis.

4. David’s Philosophies and Personal Relationships

• [11:43], [14:15] David reflects on how he’s always coped with adversity and stress by “fast-forwarding” in his mind—calculating, strategizing, and staying many steps ahead.
  • Quote: “There’s always been a strategy I’ve been able to go through my mind faster. All of a sudden, every pathway led to just another nightmare.” ([11:43], David Samson)
• Confronted by his current situation, he finds those skills profoundly inadequate and describes an almost existential stalling in the face of tragedy.
• Pablo observes how David’s usual comfort zone (strategic, efficient problem-solving) is incompatible with living through something as consuming and unsolvable as a child’s illness.

5. Baseball Power Games and Executive Rivalries

• [21:30] – [32:52] In a lighter but revealing segment, David recounts stories about MLB owners and executives—Jerry Reinsdorf, Derek Jeter, George Steinbrenner, and others—highlighting his own reputation for ruthless truth-telling and politicking.
  • Recounts a tense Hall of Fame encounter with Derek Jeter, who resents Samson for his public comments.
  • Shares the play-by-play of Rob Manfred’s election as commissioner in 2014, including covert vote-counting and subterfuge against Reinsdorf.
    • Quote: “I have here a picture...me counting votes. The first vote was Rob 20, Tom Werner 10... And then the final one is seventh ballot. Rob wins 23 to 7.” ([28:58], David Samson)
  • Describes the “love-hate listen” dynamic of sports execs tuning in to his show.

6. Parenthood, Regret, and Meaning

• [41:34] – [44:01] David sifts through feelings of guilt, helplessness, and the urge to “trade places” with his daughter. He ponders whether tragedy is shaping him into a cliché (“Am I the guy who on my deathbed is going to say, I shouldn't have worked so much?”) and how he cannot stand being out of control—wanting to be with his daughter in the hospital and away at the same time.
  • Quote: “I've always been someone who's so happy and comfortable where I am. Always. And now...I'm always doing what I want to be doing...That has been my principle. [But] on September 12th, it's another.” ([42:44], David Samson)
• The conversation with Pablo is marked by open expressions of love and vulnerability, with both men directly acknowledging their bond and the difference between public persona and private pain.

7. Consequences, Law, and the Philosophy of Blame

• [49:31] – [52:32] David discusses his consequentialist worldview—both in sports and in law. He introduces the “eggshell skull” legal doctrine, emphasizing how outcomes matter more than intentions.
  • Quote: “If I tap you on the head and it crushes your head...I'm still liable for that...you find your victims as they are.” ([50:15], David Samson)
• He applies this thinking to his fatherhood, blaming himself for outcomes out of his control, and expresses the desire to take on his daughter’s suffering if possible.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• David’s view on control: “I've never entered a fight that I know I can't win. And that's that.” ([08:16], David Samson)
• On the cosmic joke of powerlessness: “I sort of imagine God, whatever entity that is, laughing at me because this is the hell that I would have someone choose for me.” ([12:53], David Samson)
• Pablo on friendship: “I genuinely love talking to you and I love hearing about what's in your head. And this has been a chapter of your life in which I think you lost confidence in that and that I would feel that way.” ([37:17], Pablo Torre)
• On parental love: “It's nothing. Can you imagine the failures I've had as a dad? This is the monster of all failures.” ([49:08], David Samson)
• Pablo’s reassurance: “I don't know if there's a better draft pick than David Sampson. And I'm not just saying that. I mean, you're going to try everything, every path. And you're right, it's not going to be because you didn't try.” ([52:35], Pablo Torre)
• Classic David Samson quip (with Jerry Reinsdorf): “Happy birthday. Sending best wishes and hoping all is well. ‘Have you no shame?’” ([25:41], David Samson reading a text)

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Structural Highlights & Timestamps

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------|------------| | David’s deli anecdote and life updates | Sables bagel story; setting the stage | 01:57–04:01| | Announcement of daughter’s illness | Candid revelation of life changes, hiatus | 05:08–07:17| | The loss of control | Existential frustration, coping mechanisms | 07:17–10:08| | American healthcare journey & privilege | Frustrations and guilt; inability to leverage connections | 17:30–19:49| | MLB power stories: Jeter, Reinsdorf, etc.| Owner politics, MLB commissioner vote, “no shame” moment | 21:30–32:52| | Giancarlo Stanton & comfort through sport| Baseball as connection during crisis, fleeting joy in pain | 37:54–40:55| | Consequentialism, blame, parenthood | Legal philosophy, “eggshell skull,” internal guilt | 49:31–52:32| | Conclusion & emotional close | Vulnerability, acceptance, enduring hope | 52:32–53:45|

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Tone & Language

The episode is marked by deep candor—David’s blend of neurotic humor and existential dread meshes with Pablo’s emotional intelligence and patient inquiry. Banter about sports, executives, and birthdays offset the heavy subject matter with levity, but the prevailing tone is one of unsparing honesty and vulnerability.

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Final Takeaways

The Sporting Class: What You Can’t Control exposes the limits of power, planning, and experience when confronted with personal tragedy. For listeners, it’s a rare, intimate look at a public figure facing helplessness—and at how even the most practiced strategists become students again when life veers into the unknown.

Essential quote:
“I can't control the result of it. And...it's so unsettling that I just have a permanent stomachache. Anyway. I don't know what we were talking about.”
– David Samson ([52:32])

Expression of enduring hope:
“It doesn't mean I'm going to stop...I'm gonna keep going. And I can't stop.”
– David Samson ([43:29])

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For anyone navigating uncertainty, loss, or just the unanswerable, this episode threads together the absurdity of circumstance, the compulsion to control, and the reality that sometimes love is simply showing up and trying—again and again—despite knowing you can’t steer the outcome.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[David Sampson]

Happy birthday. Sending best wishes and hoping all is well. Have you no shame?

[Pablo Torre]

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[David Sampson]

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[David Sampson]

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[David Sampson]

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[David Sampson]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[David Sampson]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[David Sampson]

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[Pablo Torre]

So you have. I want to be very clear with our audience what's happening here today. You're gonna be out of here in, in an hour, almost literally. You got, you got, you got places to be. It is not lost on me that you made time to do this. And I have really missed you.

[David Sampson]

Thank you. I was at a. A deli, and I lost track of days. And I was asked by my daughter's mother, my ex, Cindy, to get a. A sandwich bagel. A bagel with Nova and cream cheese. And I wanted one too. So I went to Sables. And I completely didn't understand why there was a line out the door, because I had forgotten that it was yum kipper. And so I am online, I get to fourth, it's my turn, almost fourth. And a doctor calls. And that's my life now. So when the doctor calls, that's it, whatever you're doing. And it's happened during the taping. Nothing personal. That's it. You take the call. Because I'm on their time. I'm on everybody else's time but mine. So I get offline and I then do the call, get back online, get to the front, and before I can make an order, the guy looks right at me and says, do you know Pablo Torre? Oh, no. And I said, yeah. Why? I said, oh, I've Seen you on a show. I said, thank you so much. Can I get you anything? I said, yeah, I wouldn't mind a smear.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, God. You went. You went to Sables?

[David Sampson]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Was it an Asian guy who asked you that?

[David Sampson]

Yes, it was.

[Pablo Torre]

I met that guy probably two weeks before you had come through.

[David Sampson]

It was all octogenarian Jewish women getting ready for Arav Yom Kippur. Then it was me with a backpack, because that's my new thing. I have shoes that I bike with because I bike all over the city now, because I won't sit in traffic like I did today. And I don't. And that comfortable shoes. And I'm getting food and because I'm trying to have my family eat, because we're not eating, we're not sleeping. And the first thing I'm ready to order, I'm late because my daughter has certain times that I can see her in between therapies and the. The. The delay is. Do you know Pablo Tor.

[Pablo Torre]

There's. There's. There's a variety of ways that I need people to understand and appreciate all what it is that your life is now. One of them, I hope, is informed by the fact that you're the person for whom normal everyday is fascinating through the lens of how you see the world. We've done episodes with you about losing your senses of smell and taste. We've done episodes with you in which you bring us inside of baseball arbitration against your former employees. We do episodes with you with John Skipper typically sitting right here in between us. He is not here today. He was supposed to be. Then we said we should just do this, me and you. Because the thing that you always bring to the table is a level of candid strangeness that reads as foreign, even alien to so many of our mutual friends. And now in what you're dealing with in the present, which only begins to explain why you haven't been on the shows. People have expected you to be on your own show. Nothing personal.

[David Sampson]

I've been gone for two weeks as my family has been dealing with a critical situation. I have a daughter who is seriously ill, and it came out of nowhere. And I have been spending the last two weeks trying to figure out how to do the only thing that matters, which is to take care of her and my other children and my family. And I've made a promise to you all that you've been with me for all these years, that I would not in any way lie to you. I would not in any way mislead you. I would not in any way, do anything to break the trust that we've built together over all these years, where you know you're going to get it from me straight. And I wasn't ready. That's the bottom line. I wasn't ready to talk about it. I wasn't ready to think about it, other than to do what was in front of me, which was to figure out how to deal with something that is unthinkable, unimaginable, can't be happening. And you open your eyes 24 hours a day, and it happens. It's in front of you. There's nothing you can do. There's no escape from the nightmare of a life changing in the blink of an eye. My struggle is that I can't find the meaning right now. I can't. It doesn't serve as a distraction to me right now. And on September 12, when I got the call about my daughter out of nowhere. It was out of nowhere, Pablo. I mean, it was out of nowhere. This was not it. There is no way to describe what it is when the phone rings and it's someone calling you who you speak to often, but you knew that was a strange time to call. Because my brain is keeping track of where people are and what people are doing, because I thought that I would always want to be ready for whatever particular call could come at a particular time. Because I always try to plan for any possible outcome that could possibly happen.

[Pablo Torre]

You and me, eating at a restaurant. You're already. If you haven't listened to David on this show before, you should know that he's already planning the exit strategies you have as a function of your. Your foremost desire, control.

[David Sampson]

The irony. I don't have control over anything. Nothing I can't control. I can't make my daughter better. I can't put my family back together. I can't put our lives back together. I can't do anything. I can't control when the doctors call me back. I can't control when test results come. I can't control one thing, and that's why I'm biking back and forth to the hospital every day from where I live. Because. And I've got. I mean, I show up. This isn't for.

[Pablo Torre]

You've shown your feet before.

[David Sampson]

So I've cut.

[Pablo Torre]

You've shown toe.

[David Sampson]

I mean, I've got. I'm bleeding everywhere.

[Pablo Torre]

You have bandages under your. Your blue dress socks.

[David Sampson]

I can't deal with the fact that I can't control the outcome. I've never entered a fight that I know I so that's that. So biking in New York is a problem because people are idiots.

[Pablo Torre]

You're somebody for whom, again, the piece of tape on the side of the table, whether the water bottle has a label on it, whether this thing got breathed on by somebody else. You're someone for whom the small things have always been comically frustrating. Easy.

[David Sampson]

No, but they're easy. Look, there's a yellow sticker here that says control. Has that always been here? I have a yellow button.

[Pablo Torre]

I didn't. I didn't.

[David Sampson]

That's something.

[Pablo Torre]

I never noticed that. But you are tracing it back and forth with your finger. You called me on September 12, and it was one of the scarier calls that I've received from someone that I care about, because I was almost immediately informed, not with words, but with tone of voice, that something really scary had just happened to you. And look, man, I. In the attempt to, of course, respect and abide by the boundaries that are protecting your family and your daughter, I don't want to say more than, of course you want me to say. So I want to focus in, frankly, on just you as a person that I think we as a show, certainly our audience, but we as friends of yours, have just really been worried about and thinking about. I just wonder if. If there is any degree of zooming out or is it all very zoomed in?

[David Sampson]

Right now I'm trying to gain back some sort of control over something. So I find myself doing thing. I mean, I've. I've just. My life has changed in a way. I don't know how it'll change back. And it manifests itself in ways I can't. I haven't watched a movie. I haven't watched a movie since September 12, and I watched a movie every day for decades before that. And I can't. It, I, I. It's not a time issue because there's 24 hours in a day because I can't sleep, because waking up brings you back into the nightmare in which I find myself. So I'm not sleeping. I thought maybe doing the show would be a distraction. So I started doing that on September.

[Pablo Torre]

29Th after taking again two weeks off.

[David Sampson]

Two, which I. Jesus, the scary.

[Pablo Torre]

The part of what was scary is that. So I remember talking to Coco, calls me and he's like, hey, here's what I think my approach is going to be with David because our assumption would be he's going to want to work day one, because that's just his constitution. That's what he will want to do. And it's it'll be our job to push back. And when word came that, in fact you could not, would not, did not want to do the thing that has always been your comfort zone, the thing that you do for fun, that provided you, by the way, in the decision to become a media person, some establishment of control over your life. I'm going to do this. That makes me happy now. I'm going to find out what that is. When you didn't want to do that, it became very unsettling. Were you surprised about that? How you personally responded?

[David Sampson]

When I got the phone call, my. The. The first thing I thought of was that I tried to fast forward to everything I tried to do what I do in my brain, which is to go through every pathway. Where does that end? Where does that end? What do I do now? How does this work now? What calls do I need to make? What do I need to do? And every single pathway led to just another nightmare, led to another maze where I didn't know how to get out of that state I was in after that phone call came. And I've never had that before because there's always been an exit. There's always been a strategy that I've been able to go through my mind faster. And it's the reason why I have trouble with relationships, because I go through all of it way faster. And all of a sudden Levitar will say, slow down, David. I'm not there yet.

[Pablo Torre]

That you see how the story is going to go.

[David Sampson]

I have it.

[Pablo Torre]

And you've. And you've sped there. Because time is also something that you are measuring. The ultimate irony, dude.

[David Sampson]

The ultimate irony of my measuring of time and understanding. The time runs out. And then thinking about that now, I just. I've thought a little bit about God because I struggle with that. I always have. But now I'm struggling way more. I sort of imagine God, whatever entity that is laughing at me because this is the hell that I would have someone choose for me. And I've never had it. I've gotten away with everything my whole life because I've been able to talk my way out of it. I've been able to maneuver my way out of it, and I have no play. It is checkmate. And the humor in that that I want to see. And I thought if I got back on camera that I'd be able to pull back and enjoy the irony of. Of the fact that everything that I have been able to do, I don't know how to do anymore. I don't have it yet. I don't have it yet. And so my thought was I'd start doing the show immediately. I said to Coca, it was Friday night. I'll be back Monday. And then it just became obvious that I didn't have the pathways projected right. I had them all wrong. And I'm still getting them wrong.

[Pablo Torre]

The desire to even see the humor in a cruel and cosmic joke that you, by the way, I want to make this clear too. The story of you, as I have best understood it, is not of a man who's never experienced tragedy. It's of a man who has always found ways to shed the inefficient waste of time that attends the rituals of human emotion. It's how you don't feel it. It's just that you're, like, recognizing when it's a waste when it's not.

[David Sampson]

It's always been a waste. It's always been a waste. And it's not that I feel it's still a waste. And. And I'm. And I'm stuck in that waste. And I've always been able to dismiss the waste. Maybe now I'm beginning to understand how to say it. The things I feel right now, they don't help. They don't move forward anything. They don't make her better. They don't make me better. They don't make my two other kids better. They don't make my. The Cindy better. I don't even know what I. It sounds so harsh.

[Pablo Torre]

The mother of.

[David Sampson]

The mother of the daughter makes it sound weird. The mother of my children. It's. It's. We are a team.

[Pablo Torre]

The reason I focus on you as opposed to your daughter is not merely because of the privacy and the confidence that I want to protect. Dude, it's just like. So for people who don't know, like, how close we've become. Like, part of. I was like, explaining to Liz, like, what happened and we got wrenching text.

[David Sampson]

She sent me, but we.

[Pablo Torre]

We had stayed with you and your daughter how many weeks before September 12th?

[David Sampson]

There was nothing wrong.

[Pablo Torre]

We. We saw. We. We were in the same house together watching movies. The. The. The earthquake that destabilizes everything that isn't stopping yet. The reason I turn my focus to you is because I genuinely haven't talked to you enough. And my hope is that there is something here as people who live in front of a microphone to think out loud about. And I just don't really know what's okay to poke you about.

[David Sampson]

You're never at a loss for words. You can poke all you want. I think I'm sharp enough to not allow the pokes in the place. I don't want them.

[Pablo Torre]

Please tell me, please.

[David Sampson]

But I may not be. That's the other thing. And that. What scared me about doing the show is my respect for the audience. And I've always. That's been the thing since the first time I did. Nothing personal is I just. And there was one person listening. My first show in October of 19 and Coke and I have been together ever since. I just respect people's time because I want my time to be respected. And so how can I ask for that if I won't give it? And I've always been willing to give it. And I don't want to sit in a waiting room at a doctor's office for 45 minutes. I just. I can't handle that. And there is no more on my time. It's done. Like, it's done.

[Pablo Torre]

What's done?

[David Sampson]

The ability to have someone respect my time the way that I'm willing to respect theirs. It's done. Because now I'm on somebody else's schedule all day, every day. No matter what happens, no matter what plan I have. What's unbelievable to me is that all I'm asking for is, like, communication. It's what we do for a living. We communicate. You don't have to lie to me. You don't have to mislead me. You can not like me. You cannot love me, but just tell me what's happening. And I've had to learn a new language because it's a new language. When you're in the world of doctors, they don't speak English. And then, of course, the first thing is don't Google anything. Well, hold on. I need to teach myself because otherwise I'm at a disadvantage. And I don't go into conversations at a disadvantage. I won't do it because then there's an opportunity to lose. There's an opportunity for me to get something wrong. The doctors don't sit and teach you all of this language. The health care. You know, I got a call from the insurance company. Hey, it's the complex case manager calling it Just anything you need. Yeah, there's a lot I need. All right, well, thank you for the time. Like, that was the call, so it was not. It was a check the box call. And I'm not impugning the insurance company. It is what it is.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, big picture. I just feel like you're on a journey through the American health care system. Of course, with various advantages that you are trying to leverage that are not nearly helpful enough even with those advantages.

[David Sampson]

I have so many advantages. I have so many things that other people in my position don't have, which is another source of, of guilt that is, that weighs on me like, like a 2,000 pound weight. But, but just list and it doesn't even matter.

[Pablo Torre]

That's, that's the thing is that like you have, you're somebody for whom you've collected real bonds and relationships with people who in the nightmare scenario that you're living ostensibly you would absolutely draft in the first round of just like people who might let me cash in a favor right now. And you've been doing that. And yet it's life. It's life.

[David Sampson]

And, and so you know, Jeff and Fred Wilpon, just people I competed against for almost two decades. The Mets owners tooth and nail, the former Mets owners. And we were in the NL east. And I'm talking in the owner's room on the committees on the field. You want to talk about two different ways to look at the same sport you're in. The Mets and the Marlins are opposite. There was barely anything we could agree on because they're in a different situation than we were in. But you, you live with people and you work with them. And my show is based on truth telling off the subject. Anyway, thank you to Jeff and Fred, who were great, of course, but what I was thinking with Michaud is I can't talk about Jerry Jones anymore. I don't even know if I can mention his name. What if I need Jerry Jones to help with something in Texas? And I was thinking about, well, I can't call Stevie Cohn because all I do is refer to the chop shops and the fact that he's literally figuratively. I don't want to use literal anymore. Incompetent. But may have great connections to the possibility of the thread of a chance to make something better that I have to see if I can make better. So what am I going to go on? Nothing personal and talk about the Mets offseason and the fact that, you know Pete Alonza. I, I just, I can't come to grips with it. That's part of the, the process that I'm trying to do right now. And I don't have an answer to it right now. I, I, I, My son said to me, you're not going to call Jerry Reinsdorf, Right? I was in Chicago.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh God.

[David Sampson]

My son was with me when Jerry Reinsdorf in Cooperstown approached and said, oh, it must not be pleasant having him as your father. That's what Jerry Reinstrove said to my son. And it became memorable. It was the same day that.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, that's pretty funny that Derek.

[David Sampson]

Jeter and I had a shouting match in the hall of Fame museum.

[Pablo Torre]

Wait, wait, wait, what was that? What happened?

[David Sampson]

Derek Jeter has a problem. I mean, that's the bottom line. He has a problem of aptitude. He has a problem in everything other than being a shortstop. And I hadn't seen him since the transaction.

[Pablo Torre]

So he took over the Marlins.

[David Sampson]

He got Bruce Sherman to buy the Marlins for a price that Bruce Sherman shouldn't have paid. And Bruce knows it. And Derek got Bruce to do it because Derek Jeter was the player and the idol and he took over the team. And it turns out that he's a shortstop, not a president. So he got fired, of course. And that was the end of Derek Jeter. And I had not seen him and I saw him in Cooperstown and I approached him with my son and I just said, good to see you and extended my hand. And he did. He just looked at me and he's much taller than I am, which so are you. And he said, he said, oh, you brought your camera crew, I'm sure. And I said, actually, that's my son. He said, sure it is. And my son was just standing there like, jaw open. And then Derek started talking about how angry he was about everything. And I said, derek, I'm happy. I live rent free in your head. And thank you for watching the show every day. He had people listen to our show every day, every day while he was still employed with the Marlins. And I then just said, okay, and. And he started walking away. I started walking away and then he yelled across the hall of Fame store some terrible thing toward me. And my son was standing right there. And this is dare. So you have to understand from a kid's perspective who was with his friend, who was a huge Yankee fan, as am I. There's Derek Cheater, like yelling, dude, I love this at Caleb's dad. It. It was ridiculous.

[Pablo Torre]

To recap. So you. I mean, briefly, because.

[David Sampson]

And this was recent, I was going.

[Pablo Torre]

To say, because the last time we were just talking about in this studio how Ichiro, how chatted you out at Cooperstown? You were there as part of the delegation and you had taken Caleb. I remember you telling me that you had taken your son and his friend to go basically live a dream that any baseball fan and part of the dream that I don't think I ever considered Was Derek Jeter, basically mother your dad, which is so good.

[David Sampson]

Which, of course. And then Caleb's response. Hey, what was the highlight of the weekend? As we're driving the four hours back, so I didn't want to miss a show. So Sunday after the ceremony, I get right in the car to make it back because I have a show Monday morning and highlight when Jerry Reinsdorf and Derek Jeter put you in your place for him to think about. Oh, I guess Jerry Reinsdorf is not on the list of people who you can count on now.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[David Sampson]

But the fact is, if I called Jerry Reinsdorf today and we were in Chicago, my daughter got sick in Chicago. She was there for work. She doesn't live there. And we were in Chicago for longer than I've ever been in Chicago without winning a playoff series. And I would have called Jerry and I would have called whoever, anybody you could, who could help anybody. And Jerry would have taken the call. Well, no, I would have had to leave a message and I would have had to say why I was calling, because otherwise he wouldn't have taken the call. I think my last text from Jerry was, you have some nerve wishing me a happy birthday. Because I do wish him a happy birthday.

[Pablo Torre]

That is another favorite thing you do.

[David Sampson]

I remind because I don't want. Anyway, I'm a birthday person. I like saying happy birthday. And his birthday is the same as my late sister who passed away way too young. And they have the same birthday birthday. So I've always known Jerry's birthday. So I always text him on his birthday. And I have it here. I mean, it was.

[Pablo Torre]

Please read it. Because I just feel like it's one of the funnier things about just how you do human interaction is that you are also just like cheerily out of the ether wishing people happy birthday when the last memory they have of you is, I hate that guy.

[David Sampson]

Happy birthday. Sending best wishes and hoping all is well. Have you no shame? Telling you it's right there. Literally right there.

[Pablo Torre]

Have you no shame? In response to that specific birthday message.

[David Sampson]

I'd like to tell you I'm making it up, but as you know, with me, it's right there. So I had not seen Jerry, and I saw him in Cooperstown, and the first thing he did was when I said, jerry, this is. I'd like you to meet my son.

[Pablo Torre]

Why? Why? Why? Does.

[David Sampson]

First comment was, how sorry you. Can you imagine hearing that as your. As your son?

[Pablo Torre]

I have two. Two thoughts. Two. That's. One is that Caleb is used to it. Second thought. Second Thought is, why does Jerry Reinsdorf hate you?

[David Sampson]

He's very unhappy about nothing personal.

[Pablo Torre]

And so your show is listened to by the executive class across all sports, but baseball is particularly, of course, interested.

[David Sampson]

A lot of people listen, and you're one.

[Pablo Torre]

Look, for those who are just meeting David for the first time, former president of the Marlins, blah, blah, blah. But the member of the C suite, the executive class, a guy who's home that I stayed in with your daughter, with Liz, with Violet, you have a World Series trophy, the literal, the real thing, because you are the president of a team. And so you talking about all of this in the way that you do with me on your show with Dan, with LeBatard. Yeah, people. People don't love it, although they must listen.

[David Sampson]

So this is. This is it. So hate listen or love listen to me is the same. I just want you to listen. And the background with Jerry goes all the way back to when Rob was 2014 at a hotel in Baltimore when he did not want Rob to be the commissioner and I did. And we went at it with votes. We were trying to collect votes. I was secretly meeting with the Washington Nationals owners while I had someone telling Jerry that the national zoners were out of the room because Jerry thought he had the votes to block Rob. And he did. And there were three or four votes. And I actually, you know, it's. It's the way. The way my life has changed. Before September 12, I had gone to the framing store because I had a piece of. Of a. Of. Of my life that I wanted to have framed. And what it was.

[Pablo Torre]

You're a collector of things, by the way. That's the other thing you. You learn when you visit your home, is that you frame and collect and. And honor the various cool experiences.

[David Sampson]

I do because I. It, to me, it. It shows me I don't do it for others. And the interesting thing is people think that I do it, like for charge admission, but that's not. I do it for me.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm talking about. So if you watch Nothing Personal, you'll see David sitting inside of a giant baseball glove. And behind him are various artifacts in the way that many people have artifacts. The stuff I'm referring to is the stuff that's off camera that you don't actually talk about that I was blown away by because you take the time to frame it and put it up, and it is for you and those you love.

[David Sampson]

So I have here a picture. I wonder what date. Geez. September 9th. Everything was great. September 9th. I was. I was at a Framing store. And I happened to have taken very copious notes during the vote for the commissioner to replace Bud Selig. This was back in 2014. And I kept all the notes. And what I have is me counting votes. And the first vote was Rob, 20, Tom Werner 10. And that means that there's no commissioner. Is it white smoke or black smoke? The one when there's a pope.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, white smoke.

[David Sampson]

So black smoke is when there's not.

[Pablo Torre]

I believe so.

[David Sampson]

So I'm Jewish, so I'm Catholic. I don't remember. Oh, yeah. And you don't know the colors.

[Pablo Torre]

It is the most Catholic thing. You know, white smoke is what. What is released when they pick a new pope.

[David Sampson]

But don't they do smoke at the end of every day?

[Pablo Torre]

I believe so.

[David Sampson]

I think it's the black smoke. Meaning we're still going. We're still in the conclave. That's what the movie said. So it was 20 to 10. So then there had to be another vote. And I have second ballot with a list of the teams circled. Who voted against Rob?

[Pablo Torre]

You have. This is.

[David Sampson]

And then the second vote screenshot was 21:9.

[Pablo Torre]

A screenshot of handwriting of you just keeping TA again, measuring, controlling.

[David Sampson]

And then the final one is seventh ballot. Rob wins 23 to 7.

[Pablo Torre]

All right. And what you're showing me is the political process for how to elect a commissioner.

[David Sampson]

And I was right there, and Jerry Reinsdorf was sitting directly across from me. And Jerry Reinsdorf wanted Tom Warner because Jerry Reinsdorf didn't think that Bud Selig or anyone Bud Selig wanted would be hard enough in labor.

[Pablo Torre]

Owner of the White Sox. Jerry Reinsdorf and the Bulls.

[David Sampson]

Right. And so during the course of this process, Jerry Reinsdorf is counting to eight, because you need eight votes to block in baseball. You need a final score of 23 to 7 with the 30 owners. And so Jerry and I were counting votes. I had to count to 23. And Rob's not in the room. He's up in a suite in the Hyatt Regency in Baltimore.

[Pablo Torre]

Does Rob, man, know that you are doing this?

[David Sampson]

I'm on the phone with Rob talking about the different teams and which teams, how we're going to get the teams.

[Pablo Torre]

What. What. What a thing to have you, David Sampson, doing all of this.

[David Sampson]

And the final. Final. We had to convert Ted Lerner, the late Ted Lerner. And to do it, Jerry, owner of the Nationals. Owner of the Nationals, Jerry Reinstorf had gotten to him, and Ted Lerner had said that he won't vote for Rob because of some mass and deals, which is the regional sports network that he and the Orioles had been fighting over for years. And we found a solution, which is we. Ted Lerner is one of my mentors. And we got Ted Lerner to agree not to vote. We got him to give his son Mark the vote so Ted Lerner could say he never voted for Rob. But Mark Lerner agreed to vote for Rob. Ted Lerner allowed for Mark Lerner to vote for Rob. And Bud Sealey didn't know Rob Nukes. I called Rob, I said, we got the 23rd. Rob said, get Bud to call a vote. Reinsdorf said, call a vote. Call a vote. You don't have the votes. I know you don't have the votes because Jerry was with Ted Lerner. And we had Ted Lerner stay with Jerry because let Jerry keep thinking. So when we called for the vote, Jerry was like, hey, you're calling for a vote, you have no chance. He's sitting two feet from me. And I said, call the vote, Bud. Call it right now. So Bud calls the vote. And then it's announced 23 to 7. Rob wins. And Reinsdorf could not understand his look to me. I've never been looked at that that way by anyone in my life. In my life. The way he looked at me. That's the story of how Rob became commissioner. That's what happened with Jerry.

[Pablo Torre]

Have you no shame?

[David Sampson]

That's what it was. Apparently I.

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[Pablo Torre]

Dude, did you order the new iPhone 17 Pro? Got it from Verizon. The best 5G network in America. I never looked so good.

[David Sampson]

You look the same.

[Pablo Torre]

But with this camera, everything looks better. Especially me.

[David Sampson]

You haven't changed your hair in 15 years. Selfies check please.

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[Pablo Torre]

Foreign Close Friends is because your stories are not merely here's a war story from a thing that happened, it's the strategy. We're talking franchise swaps. We're talking, we're talking just power plays that catch people by surprise. Everyone is surprised except for you. You found the way to play by the rules and get the outcome that you, that you were fighting for.

[David Sampson]

I learned it from George Steinbrenner, by the way. George Steinbrenner told me and, and this is one of his, one of his mantras is don't, don't be upset with me for what the Yankees do because I don't break any rules. It's like the ant, it's like what Ballmer tries to say, except Steinbrenner, you know, other than when he got suspended and when he hired people and all.

[Pablo Torre]

These, other than the stuff that enabled me a fruitful childhood as a Yankee fan, outside of all the things that, you know, got him famously punished and.

[David Sampson]

Suspended from, I would say other than that, he's nothing like Palmer.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, but, but the point being he.

[David Sampson]

He always said, listen, I'm going to play by the rules. And you take your revenue sharing. He was so angry when we beat his team in the World Series because he felt, literally felt like the players beating him were the players he paid. And he would sit in the suite at Pro player or Yankee Stadium and we would spend time and the players.

[Pablo Torre]

He paid because of the luxury tax.

[David Sampson]

Yeah. Revenue sharing.

[Pablo Torre]

Revenue sharing.

[David Sampson]

One of the, one of the letters that I have framed that I don't talk about much was the letter of congratulations from George when we won. And it, it, I felt like it.

[Pablo Torre]

Did it also with blood. Did it also end with have you no shame?

[David Sampson]

No. It might as well though, by the way.

[Pablo Torre]

So I'm like, we're taping this before game three of Yankees Red Sox. And I've been watching the Yankees towards the end of the season especially closely. And you. What are the things that you told me when we were just on the phone? One of the rare times you've been on the phone, like, the only time actually before this. Sit down. That we've been on the phone talking. And I, like, forced you to, like, talk to me because.

[David Sampson]

Thank you, dude.

[Pablo Torre]

It's just what I told you is what is now clear, I think, to everybody, which is that I genuinely love talking to you and I love hearing about what's in your head. And this has been a chapter of your life in which I think you lost confidence in that and that I would feel that way. So you don't need to thank me. It's just, frankly, as always, a mixture of total self interest for me, because I think it's good. But also, I was worried that you were behaving so differently. This is my very long way of saying that you were telling me about Giancarlo Stanton, your former employee, or in this case, according to George Steinbrenner's framework, one of his also.

[David Sampson]

I love Giancarlo, and we go back a long way, and he's a Yankee, and he wants a ring, and I want him to get a ring very, very badly. And he's known my kids. He met my daughter when she was young, you know, 12 years old maybe. And he's known Caleb since he was, I don't know, first grade. We drafted him. I want to say 09, and I want to say he was in the big leagues in 11, but I may have it. I probably have my years wrong, but you forget as the years pass.

[Pablo Torre]

But yeah, he made the bigs in 2010.

[David Sampson]

2010. So, yeah, he was. Caleb was seven years old. And anyway, so I. I was speaking to him, and the way we do right before the playoffs start, where we have the same conversation each year, like, all right, like, let's go. Like, it's ring time right now. And this conversation was very different when I spoke to him about what was going on in my life. And some things are just more important. Like, all of a sudden, things are more important. And it was the day where Stanton hit his 450th home run against the Orioles.

[Pablo Torre]

The 2.

[David Sampson]

2 fly ball, deep right. Jackson back on the track at the wall.

[Pablo Torre]

See ya.

[David Sampson]

A three run. Home run over the high scoreboard and the Yankees on the board. Three nothing. He hit a home run in the first inning. And my daughter and I were watching, and it was from the hospital. Yes. And she smiled at the home run, which was amazing because she doesn't even like baseball. She hates that I'm in baseball. Hated it growing up. Hated the attention.

[Pablo Torre]

It took you from them.

[David Sampson]

It took me from them always. So it's always associated with that. And I just texted Giancarlo, like, hey, why can't you hit, like 162 home runs? Because if you're thinking of people and sending love and hitting a home run, like, just. Can't you think of someone different every night?

[Pablo Torre]

To just explain, though, what happened is Giancarlo Stanton does the Babe Ruth thing. He does the thing in the movie when a.

[David Sampson]

He had just heard news that was.

[Pablo Torre]

A sick young person has. Has inspired him to win one for the Gipper.

[David Sampson]

And I just thought to myself, as president of the team, why didn't I line up, like, 162 sick people? Like, forget, like, worrying about sliders down and away on a 12 count. Just line them up. And he. He. He laughed. I get it. It's so ridiculous. But you think now I went back into my president's mode for a hot.

[Pablo Torre]

Second and you're like, wait a minute. What if I held Giancarlo Stanton emotionally hostage with an unending series of could this be the new money ball?

[David Sampson]

It can't be. It can't be that that was in my head. It just can't.

[Pablo Torre]

But of course it is. That story in a nutshell, right, is. Is a reminder of two things. One is that you are always you. But the second thing is that who you are. We've really pressure tested. And the thing that I keep on thinking to myself as you sit there and fiddle with the labels that say control on them, has that always been there? I don't know. I'm sure it has been. Is that you are, for those who were wondering, at your core, Leopard likes to say you're. You're a bunch of wires and, you know, circuitry and all that stuff. You're a dad.

[David Sampson]

I'm a dad. And I never thought. And am I that cliche that it takes something bad to be R.E.M. i mean, it can't be that I'm. That. Am I the guy who on my deathbed is going to say, I shouldn't have worked so much? I don't think I'm going to be that. But I'll tell you, it's. It's control. It keeps coming back to that. And I don't want this to sound wrong.

[Pablo Torre]

No, no.

[David Sampson]

But trying. I can't make it better. And when, when I make things bad, it's on purpose. When, when I am stirring it or when I am trying to accomplish something that people may not realize that I'm trying to accomplish. I get that I'm that way and I'm fine with being that way. It doesn't bother me. You can call me whatever names you want. The situation I'm in now that I can't wrap my arms around is when I'm in the hospital, I want to be out of the hospital. When I'm not in the hospital, I want to be in the hospital. And I've always been someone who's so happy and comfortable where I am. Always. I've just always loved whatever I'm doing because that is the ultimate in how selfish I am. I'm always doing what I want to be doing.

[Pablo Torre]

You get to choose.

[David Sampson]

That has been my principle.

[Pablo Torre]

You working to get to the point at which your life is one way. And now on September 12th, it's another.

[David Sampson]

6:42Pm God, that was that. And there's no other that to be had.

[Pablo Torre]

You have tried for your entire life to transcend, optimize, avoid, account for, deliberately win the game against the human condition. And you, you are stuck not in control of what happens to one of the people that you would give everything to help.

[David Sampson]

It doesn't mean I'm going to stop. So that's the other issue I have is I. I'm not giving up the thought. My assumption is that I have no control because I haven't found the right path. So what I spend my days and nights doing is figuring out, okay, that's not it. Dead end. Next. Okay, that wasn't it. And so I. So I'm gonna keep going. And I can't stop. So it's causing me to be tired and grumpy and to transfer anger that I have towards something that I shouldn't be angry about. Because what can I do?

[Pablo Torre]

The guy, the guy that kind of. Just trying to sell you some smoked fish, man.

[David Sampson]

Right?

[Pablo Torre]

And also like. And subscribe.

[David Sampson]

Do you know Pablo Torre? If you would have seen me at Sables that day, you would not have believed what happened that day. 20 people online fighting over the last.

[Pablo Torre]

Bit of herring ahead of the holiest day of the year.

[David Sampson]

Do you know Pavlo Torre?

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[Pablo Torre]

And Doug, here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[David Sampson]

Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

[Pablo Torre]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance company and affiliates.

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[David Sampson]

John Skipper just texted. Are we taping yet?

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, no.

[David Sampson]

Did you not call him? Wait, does anyone work for you? Dude, with you, it's, it's, you tell me. You do things.

[Pablo Torre]

No, we, I, I, I don't want to. Whatever. John I am. Sources close to the situation tell me that John Skipper has been informed that we're doing a very different episode than the one originally planned.

[David Sampson]

Can I give you one more thing to think about?

[Pablo Torre]

What you got?

[David Sampson]

Do you know I didn't know the number of episodes you had done on Ballmer until our friend at Sables said, wait, are you recording number six. And I paused by saying, I'm sorry. He said, well, there's been five episodes and now are you taping a sixth? Think about that for a minute. When he's surrounded by lunatic people trying to get food before the fast. So I was thinking about the way you are with Ballmer, the way you are with investigations, the way you've built this show. And I need you to teach me because you have to, as an investigative journalist, run into dead ends. You have to run into. Okay, that wasn't Right. That's not right. What happens? Do you ever run out of the path?

[Pablo Torre]

Of course. I think the thing to drop the story then. Well, this is. This is. I'll tell you this. It's such a good question, and my staff sometimes laughs, I think, at what my solution tends to be, which is when you try really, really, really, really hard at something, and it's a dead end. The question I ask is, is that attempt to try really, really, really hard that doesn't come up with the thing you want? And is that attempt now part of the story to you?

[David Sampson]

Everything's part of the story, though.

[Pablo Torre]

No, I. I've come to realize that that's my way of making peace with this, is.

[David Sampson]

I'm not at peace, Pablo.

[Pablo Torre]

No, and you shouldn't be. You really shouldn't be. And you're. The way that. Look, as far as I can tell, as you're. As someone who loves you, the way to think about this. And not that I've ever gained the credibility to talk or advise on this, but the way that I see you intuitively living your life in the way that unsettled me and jarred me and made me afraid, is, I think, exactly what you should be doing, which is inefficiently and hellishly and unrelentingly stopping the other that you'd prefer to do to be a dad.

[David Sampson]

It's the nothing. Can you imagine the failures I've had as a dad? This is the monster of all failures.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't. I don't. I mean, I'm going to be the person who. Who says the obvious, which is that, of course, this isn't your failure.

[David Sampson]

I mean, it's. It. But that's. If you're a consequentialist, you're a consequentialist.

[Pablo Torre]

So we. We had dinner. You, me, Liz, Kara, in August, or whenever it was that we were together. And we talked about consequentialism and how for you, drunk driving is something that you don't great on a curve. What was the outcome?

[David Sampson]

Someone dies. That, to me, is. It's not manslaughter. I mean, the legal code doesn't agree with me, but I'm a consequentialist in that way. But there's a concept in law called the eggshell skull, which you may be familiar with.

[Pablo Torre]

I am not. Although this feels like a thing that I should be.

[David Sampson]

Yeah. So if I. If I tap you on the head and it crushes your head, but I. I didn't realize that it would crush your head. It Crushed your head. It's called the eggshell skull. I'm still liable for that. That is still a crime of a different level. Even if I argue, well, wait a minute. When I touch everybody like that, they're all fine. You find your victims as they are.

[Pablo Torre]

You're somebody who thinks that the eggshell skull defense is not a defense.

[David Sampson]

I am. The people who drop stuff off overpasses on a highway is the example that I often use. It's fun. Just kids having stupid fun. You drop a little stone, you drop a penny, it goes through a windshield, and the car crashes and the person dies. That's. That, to me, should be the end of your freedom.

[Pablo Torre]

And so when you think about your daughter now, all I want is for.

[David Sampson]

Her to have health and freedom. I just want. I want for her what I've had. That's the trade I want to make. I want to take it from her. Because if we were doing a show because I was sick, I'd tip my cap and say, my God, I've done a lot. I've had. I've had the most fortunate, amazing life. And, you know, I. I just don't want why. I want her, and I want my kids. I want people I love. I want you like, I want people to have the opportunity to do everything they want to. And I've had that opportunity. And the harsh reality is that opportunity ended September 12th. It just ended. And I don't have the path yet to have that return. As a matter of fact, I'm almost positive that there is no going back. Ever. There will always be a new path. But this path, it's so dark to me. Triple entendre that I can't see around the corner. I can't manufacture how to maneuver through it. I can't control the result of it. And I. It's so unsettling that I just have a permanent stomachache. Anyway. I don't know what we were talking about.

[Pablo Torre]

No, we were talking about eggshell skulls. Yeah.

[David Sampson]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

The consequences that you wish to prevent. The last thought I have. Is that how you do this, how you've been doing this, how you've been doing your career, Strategizing, scheming, finding the ways to win. It just makes me think that even if the consequences are not controllable, guaranteed, any of that, it's hard to think of someone better to have leading their team. Your daughter has you doing your best, and I don't know if there's a better draft pick than David Sampson. And I'm not just saying that. I mean, you're going to try everything, every path. And you're right, it's not going to be because you didn't try.

[David Sampson]

Thanks. I got to go.

[Pablo Torre]

You got to go.

[David Sampson]

All right. Thanks.

[Pablo Torre]

I love you.

[David Sampson]

Love you, too.

[Pablo Torre]

Pablo Torre finds out is produced by Walter Averoma, Maxwell Carney, Ryan Cortez, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, neely Loman, Rob McRae, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor and Chris Tuminello. Our studio engineering by RG Systems, sound design by Andrew Burcic and NGW Post theme song as always, by John Bravo. And we will talk to you.

[David Sampson]

Right.

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[Pablo Torre]

And Ryan podcast every day. I'm Ryan. This is my best friend, Tony. Howdy. No, we're Australian.

[David Sampson]

They're from the U.S. g'. Day. Perfection.

[Pablo Torre]

But don't just take our word for it. Andrew's in Washington. Why do you love the podcast, Andrew? Well, I do love some hot fun garbage and your biggest member of our podcast community as well. Feel like you're in the conversation. You can laugh with them and then you can get into the community and have all the same jokes and chat with other people, too.

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Get your brain break daily with us, Tony and Ryan.