The Truth About Magic Johnson's Tweets, and More of the Internet's Most Important Mysteries

Summary

Podcast Summary: Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: "The Truth About Magic Johnson's Tweets, and More of the Internet's Most Important Mysteries"

Date: November 28, 2023
Host: Pablo Torre (with Ryan Cortez)
Featured Guest: Rob Lowe
Notable Contributions: Caller voicemails, Interview with Master Killa (Wu-Tang Clan), reporting from David Epstein and David Grann

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Overview

This episode dives into a series of quirky, urgent, and important internet mysteries, led by listener voicemails and Pablo's relentless curiosity. From uncovering who actually writes Magic Johnson's tweets—and whether they're truly as earnest as they seem—to exploring who’s the best chess player in Wu-Tang Clan, the episode weaves together sports, pop culture, social media, and the internet’s strangest quandaries. Regular contributor Ryan Cortez provides humor and banter, and major guests like actor Rob Lowe and Wu-Tang’s Master Killa elevate the investigation with firsthand anecdotes and unexpected insight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Voicemail Detective Agency (00:45–06:25)

• Theme: The show responds to “urgent mysteries” left by listeners, rejecting the “mailbag” label in favor of an investigative, detective-agency style.
• Feud with the Pippens and Jordans (01:28):
  • Pablo addresses backlash from Larsa Pippen and Marcus Jordan, who called a previous podcast episode about them a “hit piece.”
    • Notable Quote: “It was a hit, man. A hip piece.” — Pablo (03:15)
    • Adds Pablo’s take on bonding with guests vs. their public reactions, with comic self-awareness.
• Spicy Food & Hot Ones Aftermath (03:51):
  • Listener asks if David Samson’s butthole survived the Hot Ones challenge; Pablo relays Samson’s text about his post-challenge pain and reliance on A&D ointment.
    • Notable Anecdote: Samson claims he didn’t lose nerve sensation, just taste and smell: “My hole is on fire.” (05:33)
  • Ryan claims Samson exaggerated his toughness, sharing behind-the-scenes observations of his pain.

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2. Are the Oklahoma Sooners Problematic? (06:27–08:49)

• Listener Asks: Is the "Sooner" mascot rooted in problematic history?
• Expert Input: David Grann (author, "Killers of the Flower Moon") explains the "Sooner" comes from settlers who unlawfully claimed land ahead of government-sanctioned land runs during the 19th century, tied to Native American displacement.
  • Notable Quote: “The people it describes… were treating Native American land like it was a Walmart on Black Friday.” — Pablo (08:16)
• Consensus: Not as overtly racist as other mascots, but still tied to ethically dubious behavior.

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3. Woj Blocking Pablo on Twitter (08:49–11:11)

• Issue: Caller wants to know why NBA insider Adrian Wojnarowski (Woj) blocked Pablo.
• Pablo recounts discovering the block on the morning of a big NBA trade, theorizes it’s due to association with Miami Heat partisans within his network (Meadowlark Media), or banter with Ryan.
  • Notable Moment: “You probably did something.” — Ryan Cortez (09:00)
  • Comic Moment: Pablo jokes about Ryan getting blocked next just for association (10:34).

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4. Who Really Writes Magic Johnson’s Tweets? (11:11–29:20)

The Mystery (11:11–12:47)

• Magic Johnson’s Twitter account is celebrated for sincerity and banality; caller wonders if it’s AI, a team, or Magic himself.

Pablo’s Attempt at Direct Inquiry (12:47–13:27)

• Pablo describes his embarrassing attempt to bond with Magic when they met at ESPN—jumping over a couch for a handshake.

Rob Lowe Interview (14:46–26:17)

• Rob’s Relationship with Magic: Rob and Magic bonded in LA in their 20s; Lakers, Riley, and “bad influence” stories.
• Who Handles the Tweets?
  • Rob Lowe asserts: Magic “dictates” his tweets to someone who posts for him—he supplies the earnest, cheerleading lines.
  • Notable Quote: “He dictates it… whatever occurs to him, with the emphasis on whatever.” — Rob Lowe (16:54)
  • Rob and Pablo riff on Magic’s style: catchphrases (“We’ve got to do better!”), obsession with exclamation points, and comparison to fictional TV newsman Perd Hapley (“Magic’s Twitter account has a little bit of Perd Hapley in it.” — Rob Lowe, 20:53).
  • Theorize on how tweets might be “preloaded” for all possible outcomes.
  • Joy vs. cynicism: Magic as an example of online happiness, contrasting Elon Musk’s Twitter persona.
    • Notable Quote: “It might be the only joy left on Twitter.” — Rob Lowe (23:20)

The Real Poster (27:29–28:16)

• Pablo’s reporting uncovers Magic’s VP, Alexia Grievous Henderson, is the one who physically posts the tweets based on Magic’s dictation. She’s the same person who declined to comment on “social strategy.”
  • Notable Quote: “Good reporting by you.” — Ryan Cortez (28:16)

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5. Wu-Tang Clan: Who’s the Best Chess Player? (29:22–39:20)

• Listener Query: Who is the best chess player in Wu-Tang Clan? Widely rumored; RZA and GZA are known enthusiasts.
• Process: Pablo gets Method Man to rank the top three: Master Killa, Ghostface, and GZA.
• Interview with Master Killa (“Jamel”) (32:26–38:30):
  • Insights: Masta Killa, GZA, and RZA are all top contenders.
  • Masta Killa describes all-day chess marathons with GZA: “We played 72 [games]… the whole day,” (34:19) and extols the virtues of psychological warfare and patience learned from chess.
  • Asserts he’d beat Jay-Z at chess: “Jay’s going down!” (37:35)
  • Memorable Quote: “The patience of choice is the jewels of life. Think before you speak or move.” — Master Killa (38:13)

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6. Human Evolution & Athletic Limits (39:50–45:14)

• Listener Question: Will humankind keep producing “new Victor Wembanyamas” (extreme athletic anomalies), or will we plateau?
• Guest Expert: David Epstein (author, “Range,” “The Sports Gene”)
  • Main point: It’s about access as much as genetics; many potential super-athletes never get opportunity.
  • Selective breeding and “assortive mating” (athletes having children together) could push the genetic envelope, but a ceiling is likely.
  • Comic Tangent: Pablo and Ryan riff about whose semen is more valuable to the gene pool, only to admit both are “mid” compared to Wembanyama’s.
  • Notable Scientific Take: “We’ve probably climaxed as a species in terms of height… we’re probably not going to do taller than [Wembanyama].” — Pablo (44:41)

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7. Where Is Cotton Ball Man Now? (45:26–49:47)

• Listener Plea: Track down the “Cotton Ball Man” from a classic Maury Povich episode (man in cotton suit who scared a guest with cotton ball phobia).
• Result: Pablo finds Jimmy Shearman, former Maury staffer and the Cotton Ball Man.
  • Jimmy discusses the demonic persona he embodied, the construction of the suit (“oven mitts with cotton balls glued all over”), and how his last name—Shearman—amusingly aligns with his role (an “aptronym”).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Magic Johnson Tweets:

  • “He dictates it… whatever occurs to him, with emphasis on whatever. That’s what Twitter was made for.” — Rob Lowe (16:54)
  • “It might be the only joy left on Twitter.” — Rob Lowe (23:20)
  • “Positano, Italy is so beautiful and they grow the biggest lemons I’ve ever seen in my life!” [Exclamation point] — Magic Johnson tweet, via Pablo (23:49)

• On Chess in Wu-Tang:

  • “Me and GZA played 72 games one day… We started that morning and ended late at night.” — Master Killa (34:19)
  • “Jay’s going down, Jay’s going down, Jay’s going down!” — Master Killa on facing Jay-Z in chess (37:35)
  • “The patience of choice is the jewels of life. Think before you speak or move.” — Master Killa (38:13)

• On Human Potential:

  • “There’s tons of hidden or undeveloped talent out there… More people are selected out either because of their genes or because of their opportunities and training environment.” — David Epstein (41:41)

• Comic Moments:

  • “You probably did something.” — Ryan to Pablo, about the Woj block (09:00)
  • “What you found out today is that your semen is mid.” — Pablo to Ryan (44:19)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:45 — Mystery mailbags begin
• 01:28 — Larsa Pippen & Marcus Jordan response
• 03:51 — David Samson’s Hot Ones after-effects
• 06:27 — Oklahoma Sooners mascot history w/ David Grann
• 08:49 — Woj blocks Pablo on Twitter
• 11:11 — Who writes Magic Johnson’s tweets? Entry of the mystery & call to Magic’s team
• 14:46 — Rob Lowe on Magic Johnson & the tweets
• 23:49 — Magic’s joy on Twitter (“biggest lemons” tweet)
• 27:29 — Pablo investigates: who posts Magic’s tweets? Answer: Alexia Grievous Henderson
• 29:22 — Wu-Tang chess mystery begins, Method Man’s input
• 32:26 — Interview: Master Killa on chess, Wu-Tang, Jay-Z
• 39:50 — Human evolution and Victor Wembanyama, with David Epstein
• 45:26 — The hunt for Cotton Ball Man, Maury episode
• 49:29 — Cotton Ball Man’s true name: Jimmy Shearman

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Overall Tone and Takeaways

The episode maintained Pablo’s signature blend of seriousness and self-aware silliness, integrating rigorous reporting with carefree banter. Listeners are treated both to satisfying factual investigations (“Who really runs Magic’s Twitter?”) and to moments of pop-cultural whimsy (“Who’s the best chess player in Wu-Tang?”). The discussants, from A-listers to everyday fans, leaned into their true voices—be it through laughter, modest boasting, or reflective wonder at life’s oddities.

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For More:

• Voicemail hotline: 51385-PABLO
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PabloTorreFindsOut
• Pablo’s newsletter: https://pablo.show

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Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds Out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[Rob Lowe]

Here's my pitch on Irvin's tweet Post meeting the aliens, okay? Met with the aliens, period. They are not what I expected, exclamation mark.

[Pablo Torre]

Right after this ad. You're listening to Giraffe Kings Cortez. Every so often on this show we turn into a detective agency.

[Ryan Cortez]

In what way?

[Pablo Torre]

We have a number, 51385, Pablo. People call that number with their, with their mysteries they want us to solve and solve the out of those mysteries.

[Ryan Cortez]

I know, I know. Shout out to these people for the mailbag. I appreciate all.

[Pablo Torre]

It's not a mailbag detective agency. Again, we're not doing this stereotype, stupid mailbag things every show does. I believe that what we're gonna do here with this voicemail will prove that we're not just any show if we can play that first non mailbag voicemail.

[Caller 1 / Various Callers]

Hey Pablo, I saw your name in the headline of a New York Post article. It says, Larsa Pippin and Marcus Jordan, trash quote, miserable. End quote. Pablo Torre over podcast interview. So now that you officially have a feud with the Pippins and the Jordans, I need to hear your response, please, and thanks. Bye.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm going to have to wear this because we taped an episode of our podcast in which we interviewed Marcus Jordan and Larsa Pippen about their love.

[Ryan Cortez]

Yeah, watch that one. So you don't have to listen to their God awful podcast.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, now we got to listen to their God awful podcast as an excerpt because they of course actually said the things that that caller was alleging.

[Caller 1 / Various Callers]

You know, we did a podcast.

[Caller 2 / Various Callers]

Yeah. A week ago we did Pablo Torres podcast and you talked a lot of it, you know, and I'm, you know, I wasn't too familiar with the format of his show. Maybe that's on us not doing our research or whatever. But yeah, I feel like the first half segment of the show was talking crazy. And so, you know, it's just funny because then when we did our interview, they didn't really keep that same energy. You know, I felt like, you know, obviously they were, they had listened to the podcast, they were familiar with it, but they. Our interview was very fluffy.

[Caller 1 / Various Callers]

It was very one.

[Caller 2 / Various Callers]

It was very fluffy. And I feel like their commentary that aired before I interviewed was, you know, was pretty biased.

[Caller 1 / Various Callers]

It was a hit piece, by the way.

[Caller 2 / Various Callers]

It was a little bit of a hit piece. And now actually having watched it back, I wish that that producer, you know, there was some Off. I can't remember the dude's name. I just wish he was there because I feel like our interview would have taken a different tone and we would have been able to clap back a little bit, you know what I'm saying?

[Caller 1 / Various Callers]

It's funny because I feel like the people that have so much to say are so miserable in their real lives. If we took five seconds to research them, which I would never even do because they're not worth our time.

[Caller 2 / Various Callers]

Right.

[Caller 1 / Various Callers]

You'd really realize these people are a bunch of losers.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, it was a hit man. A hip piece.

[Ryan Cortez]

What a great line.

[Pablo Torre]

They didn't remember that you, Ryan Cortez.

[Ryan Cortez]

I know my name.

[Caller 3 / Various Callers]

Out of here.

[Pablo Torre]

That, Come on. I, I am just bummed that I, I, I thought we had bonded with them. That's how you left the interview that you thought you guys, I was like, I was like, I, we, we. I might be at this wedding. Like I was hoping for a follow up episode where we're at the wedding listening to Michael Jordan give the best man's toast.

[Ryan Cortez]

Clap back, Pablo.

[Pablo Torre]

Speaking of miserable, what's next?

[Caller 1 / Various Callers]

Hey, Pablo. So I ate some really yummy Thai food last night, but it was so spicy and this morning I had the spicy of my life and I just like don't feel good. It's like walking home from work just felt gross all day. And it had me thinking about David Stanton and I'm just wondering if you could find out if you have any strategies for like mitigating the impact of a spicy and also find out if his butthole is okay. Thanks, Bye.

[Pablo Torre]

I just want to say that I love that we are a safe space for listeners of all genders. What a great to confess how miserable their actually is.

[Ryan Cortez]

Yeah, I also have had the same question about how that's gone for him.

[Pablo Torre]

So we had David Sampson on for an episode about how he lost smell and taste due to Covid and how truly because we did the hot ones like hot sauce challenge and he tasted hot sauces that were draped his wings in hot sauces that were like a zillion Scoville units or whatever it is and was totally unaffected. Allegedly. Well, I text him now and and in the present tense he reports this quote. When it comes to hoop burn, use your imagination. My days are spent not with prevention, but treatment. I thought I was in the clear after the hot sauce challenge with Sean Evans, host of hot ones. 72 hours later, things went horribly wrong. So I have two letters for you. A and D. I believe that's like an ointment that you put on like, baby butts. And he says, unfortunately, my loss of. Of taste and smell did not come with a concomitant loss of anal nerves, but the juice is worth the squeeze. So to translate it quote, my hole is on fire.

[Ryan Cortez]

Well, so here's the thing. I am not surprised because I believe David Sampson to be somewhat of a liar. And I will tell you why. Juan Galindo, our great. One of our great video editors, was telling me that he noticed out of the corner of his eye that after all of this took place in our studio that David Sampson retreated to the back where, like, you could get milk and water and so forth. And he, David was alone and Juan just saw him and was, like, noticing how David looked like he was in so much pain and he was like, trying to hide it and he was sweating.

[Pablo Torre]

So you are accusing David Sampson of fabricating the entire premise of this episode, which is that actually he feels everything. He's just doing this for attention.

[Ryan Cortez]

Oh, you put me in a tough spot. Because that is.

[Pablo Torre]

You're alleging that David Sampson is Larsa, Pippa.

[Ryan Cortez]

They both could use, like, you know, some help.

[Pablo Torre]

Next. Voicemail.

[Caller 3 / Various Callers]

What's up, Pablo? This is Jack calling from Venice, California. Have a college mascot question for you. I know there's a long sort of history of indigenous mascots. Some are like the flagrant examples, like the Cheat, Chief Wahoo and the Washington football team. I won't name, but we'd love your explanation on what the hell in Oklahoma Sooner is. It's given real killer of the Flower Moon energy to me, but would love your take. Let me know if I'm on the right track with it being particularly bad or maybe it's harmless.

[Pablo Torre]

So he's asking us to tell him whether or not this is a problematic mascot and where this mascot even comes from.

[Ryan Cortez]

Something we need to know about all mascots.

[Pablo Torre]

It's honestly helpful for me to know this. I did not know this. We reached out to David Grann, author of Killers of the Flower Moon. I read that one of the great nonfiction writers on the planet who wrote the book. Yes. Of the New Yorker wrote the book that got turned into the Scorsese movie. And he gave us this.

[David Grann]

It turns out that the term dates back to the land runs of the late 19th century in what was then Indian Territory and is now part of the state of Oklahoma. The US Government had a long policy of trying to drive Native Americans off their lands and open up these prairies and. And territories to white settlers. And so it had arranged to have These races, they were these mad dashes for lands where, at the sound of a gun, settlers would gather. And at that sound, they would race down. And if they got to a parcel of land first and put in their stake, they would lay claim to it. During the land Run of 1893, thousands, tens of thousands of settlers gathered, waiting for the start of the gun. And the term sooner came from those who tried to sneak across the line early.

[Pablo Torre]

So I didn't know any of that. The idea that, okay, it's not that the nickname itself is, like, problematic, but the people it describes, apparently, are these people who were these settlers that were treating like Native American land like it was a Walmart on Black Friday.

[Ryan Cortez]

Also, it's pretty amazing that, like, this amazing author from the New Yorker and all these books is, like, wasting his time answering our questions.

[Pablo Torre]

I do love that.

[Ryan Cortez]

It's amazing.

[Pablo Torre]

I love that. David Gran answered mascot question. Yes, thank you. But speaking of people desperately trying to be first, what's next?

[Caller 3 / Various Callers]

Yo, Pablo, Billy from Brooklyn, I saw.

[Pablo Torre]

On Twitter X that Woes blocked you. What the hell could you have done to deserve that? Why is it about what I must have done?

[Ryan Cortez]

You probably did something. Let's.

[Pablo Torre]

I want to be clear about this whole entire thing. I'm not here to be as messy as the top of the show indicates. Actually, I'm not realizing how much I am. Apparently, this controversial character.

[Ryan Cortez]

How'd you discover you were blocked?

[Pablo Torre]

So the morning of the hardened trade, I get all these texts and I'm like, what the happened? And I go, of course, to the NBA's biggest newsbreaker and I find out that the man who broke the heart in trade had blocked me.

[Ryan Cortez]

Shams blocked you?

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, God. Set me up for that. Wow. So blocked me. Which is strange because I am of course his former full time colleague, now part time colleague at espn. And so I don't know what I did. I was surprised to learn, and my only theory is that because I work for Meadowlark and I work with you, that the Miami Heat propagandists have put a stain on my good name.

[Ryan Cortez]

You might be right in terms of me being to blame for this because I have my own story with Woj. In the past on Twitter, what I do with a lot of people.

[Pablo Torre]

You do.

[Ryan Cortez]

So I had been following Woj for many years, as most people do, and I noticed one day I got a notification that said Adrian Wojnowski followed you back. And I said, oh, I used to follow me. Yeah, I was like proud and showing people Woj follows me now. And like, two days later, I noticed Wojun followed me, and that pissed me off. So you unfollowed. You had the nerve to go to my pro. You were that busy. You're the busiest man in news breaking, and you hate my profile so much that you had to unfollow me. So he blocked you. Yeah, he unfollowed me.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Ryan Cortez]

At least I'm not blocked. Yeah, so he really doesn't like.

[Pablo Torre]

I got. I have breaking news for you. You undoubtedly just got blocked. I love our callers, man.

[Ryan Cortez]

They're the best.

[Pablo Torre]

They're the best. They leave voicemails that sometimes just sync perfectly with the. That I'm already, like, wanting to investigate.

[Ryan Cortez]

We can't say it enough. 51385.

[Pablo Torre]

Pablo. That's right. Call us. And we may. We may play your voicemail like we are right now.

[Caller 3 / Various Callers]

Hey, Pablo, this is Butterfly Jones calling from beautiful Key West, Florida. Longtime listener, first time caller, and I was hoping you could find out who writes the beautiful. The incredible tweets by Magic Johnson. They are so amazingly earnest, but they read like GPT, negative 3.5. Combined with the enthusiasm of my great Aunt Patty, they are spectacular. And I want to know who's behind them. Thanks, Papa.

[Ryan Cortez]

There's nobody in the Twitter sphere who. I'd want to know more who's behind that account than Magic Johnson.

[Pablo Torre]

Number one for me, it's an active mystery. And so, of course, we had to get to Magic Johnson, which is, it turns out, kind of difficult.

[Ryan Cortez]

But you remember you've met him before, right? Like, I mean, I was there for that.

[Pablo Torre]

I've interviewed him at Sports Illustrated a couple times, actually.

[Ryan Cortez]

No, I know you're a journalist. Thank you for reminding that. I know you, and I know back.

[Pablo Torre]

In the day, you did recorded stories, right.

[Ryan Cortez]

Quoting him back when you and I did High Noon on ESPN at the Seaport office. At espn. There was a day, if you remember. I believe it's 2019.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't think it's that helpful to relive this. No, it is. It is.

[Ryan Cortez]

Dude, Magic Johnson came to the office and it was embarrassing what you did.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Caller 2 / Various Callers]

Y' all shoot here, too?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Caller 2 / Various Callers]

Okay, so you had to move, both of you, because you were in North Carolina.

[Pablo Torre]

I was in North Carolina, yeah. So congrats, man. Well, trying to be like you, man. You're the best TV star in this film.

[Caller 2 / Various Callers]

TV star.

[Pablo Torre]

A businessman now just business. You're the suit of a businessman. Well, you know, I gotta run my business. Matter of fact, I'm running to a meeting after this. Absolutely. God bless you. Take care. I am cringing so hard that I'm, like, becoming smaller.

[Ryan Cortez]

So some background. I'm filming that, obviously. And the reason that it's clipped off in that manner, sort of abruptly, is I was furiously trying to get my phone out because you're sprinting to hop over a couch to go say hello to Magic Johnson. The video picks up with the first words of you saying to him after having climbed the couch to dap him. We can see eye to eye as if you're, like, marveling at, yes, dude, you stuffed on a couch.

[Pablo Torre]

Of course I stood on a couch. Like Tom Cruise being interviewed by Oprah.

[Ryan Cortez]

Are you embarrassed?

[Pablo Torre]

Of course. I mean, the visuals on this are great, admittedly. Like, there's a. The dap I delivered, was it worth it?

[Ryan Cortez]

You got the clout of, like, hey, I dapped him up.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. But it was. It's, it's not worth it. There's, like, a leg kick. I, like, sort of, like, wound up because I cared about the dap so much that I kicked my leg out like a pitcher. So what's sad now, even sadder now to me, is that despite that clear connection that me and Magic made right from atop that couch, when I reached out to Magic Johnson's people, because, of course, he's a businessman with many people to go to the front door on this topic, we were told the following. Okay, quote, thank you for reaching out. Unfortunately, Mr. Johnson respectfully declines to participate. He is elected not to discuss the behind the scenes of his social strategy. End quote. That was from the vice president of Magic Johnson Enterprises, Alexia Grievous Henderson. But I was energized. And so what I did was I reached out to a different Hollywood power broker, an actor, in this case that I know has also been obsessed with this now official mystery, by the way, what do they have to hide? And so, yeah, I, I, I called up Rob Lowe, and so, Rob Lowe, what was the first memory you have of meeting Magic Johnson?

[Rob Lowe]

You know, we, we met because we were both basically the same age from the Midwest. He's from Michigan. I'm from Ohio. We're in Los Angeles. We're young, we're having success, and we're on each other's radar. And so that was the, obviously the initial commonality. And. But then over the years, you know, I got to know him as a man, and it was really through amount of time spent in and around the Lakers and the Laker organization, traveling on the road, on the team, playing, you know, Riley, you know, at one point, banned me from staying in the same hotel because.

[Pablo Torre]

Wait, why? Why were you banned by Pat Riley?

[Rob Lowe]

Well, because it was the 80s and I was single and you were a.

[Pablo Torre]

Bad influence, Rob Lowe. That's why you were banned.

[Rob Lowe]

I was a very bad influence on the Lakers. Meanwhile, Lakers love me. Riley, not so much. And it was during those years. It was during the format where it was like, two, three, two.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Lowe]

So you'd be in Detroit forever. Three, three games in Detroit. You're like, there's not a lot to do up by the Pontiac Silver Dome. So, you know, you can do the math. And Riley was not a fan of that.

[Pablo Torre]

No, understandably. Magic Johnson, by the way, was just named one of the four current or former athletes to ever become a billionaire. Right. So it's him, LeBron, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods. That was this week. But. But inside of that larger context is this ongoing fascination that many people have around his Twitter account.

[Rob Lowe]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And I think you know this. You've been on, pardon my take, talking to them about it, but you're, like, the foremost source. You have advanced the ball more than any other human being on the question of, like, what is up with Magic Johnson's Twitter account? And you take pride in this. I imagine at this point you're laughing at me asking this. Yeah.

[Rob Lowe]

I mean, listen, I. I have. I have it on very good authority.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Rob Lowe]

That he dictates it. He has somebody who he, you know, whatever occurs to him. And with the emphasis on whatever occurs to him, it's the best. I mean, that's what Twitter was made for him. Made.

[Pablo Torre]

Exactly.

[Rob Lowe]

But I'll ask Magic next time I see him. I'm gonna say, the world wants to know.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Rob Lowe]

Are you seated in a big smoking chair? Are you doing it in a walk and talk? Is there a fleet? Because you're a billionaire now. So I'm assuming it's a fleet of people, not just one person who's instantly, you know, putting it in on their phone. And if it's on their phone, how does that get onto your Twitter? Like, the world needs to know.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. I imagine like a nuclear football level of chain of custody here.

[Rob Lowe]

My favorite is always like, we've got to do better when the Lakers are getting blown out.

[Pablo Torre]

You know what I mean? You're like, I love that his catchphrases are stuff like, quote, tonight we learned the world champion Denver Nuggets are going to be very tough to beat in the NBA playoffs, period. Quote, we're all disappointed that our Dodgers didn't hit or pitch well. That's why we lost the series to the Diamondbacks. Exclamation point. Which is. And the exclamation points, Rob, are notable because for him on the Magic Johnson emotional curve, that thing is Martin luther nailing the 95 theses to the door.

[Rob Lowe]

When I was on the West Wing. Aaron Sorkin will not use an exclamation point ever.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, wow.

[Rob Lowe]

It could. Literally. He could. In the script, it could say, president Bartland is shot. No exclamation point. No, he does not believe in them. His theory with exclamation points is that it's the. It's the hackiest, sweatiest thing that you can do to make something sound exciting that probably isn't. I happen to disagree with it. I think. I think an exclamation point. There's.

[Pablo Torre]

There.

[Rob Lowe]

There's absolutely a place to. They're overused, for sure. But I don't go the other way where it's like you don't use them. I mean, to me, that's a bridge.

[Pablo Torre]

Too far on the scale of. Of writing sensibility. On one end is Magic Johnson, on the other end is Aaron Sorkin.

[Rob Lowe]

And you're not going to confuse their Twitter accounts. You're just not going to.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Rob Lowe]

By the way, are they preloaded?

[Pablo Torre]

Right?

[Rob Lowe]

Listen, listen. There's a world where what was preloaded wasn't. Give me the quote about. About why the Dodgers lost to give it to me again.

[Pablo Torre]

We're all disappointed that our Dodgers didn't hit or pitch well. That's why we lost the series to the Diamondbacks. Exclamation point.

[Rob Lowe]

Okay, so that's preloaded. Also preloaded is how about that Dodger pitching and hitting? And that is why we swept the Diamondbacks.

[Pablo Torre]

So you. You have the potential world in which Magic Johnson is a man for all seasons and outcomes. He is ready with a Magic Johnsonism, no matter the event and its. And its results.

[Rob Lowe]

Of course he is. That's why he's a billionaire. Of course he's ready for every eventuality. It's like abstract art. It really is. It's where you go, I'm pretty sure my kindergartner could have painted that. And yet your kindergartner didn't paint it.

[Pablo Torre]

No, no, no. Jackson Pollock painted this.

[Rob Lowe]

Jackson Pollock painted it. He's no kindergartner. And you know what else is a little bit in there? And this is. We have a mutual friend, Alan Yang, who wrote on the show that I did Parks and Recreation. And one of my favorite characters in Parks and Recreation has a little bit of Irvin's Twitter in him. And that is purred happily, yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, my God. Dude. I had never connected this, but 100,000,000%.

[Rob Lowe]

Magic's Twitter account has a little bit of Purd Hapley in it.

[Caller 2 / Various Callers]

For a female perspective on this scandal, we turn to a woman. Leslie Knope. I'm about to ask you a question right now, and that question is this. The lewd photo. Just how big a deal is it?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, frankly, Perd, it's not that big a deal, if you know what I mean.

[Caller 2 / Various Callers]

I don't know what you mean, but it had the cadence of a joke.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm Irvin Johnson, and I love to play basketball. It's hard work, but it's a lot of fun.

[Caller 2 / Various Callers]

It's a lot of things, but. But when the ball goes through that.

[Pablo Torre]

Net, the team gets two points. Is there a person who is better at being rich than Magic Johnson? Oh, and I see Elon Musk as, of course, fantastically accomplished, wildly wealthy, real life Tony Stark, all of that stuff on top of the culture war. Yeah. But the point being, I watch him on Twitter, and I'm like, oh, that's a man whose brain has been eaten by the Internet. It seems like he is doing Twitter, the product he bought for $44 billion, incorrectly. And then, in contrast, again, on this scale of extremes, I see Magic Johnson, and I'm like, that guy seems happy.

[Rob Lowe]

He is happy, for sure. One of the things I love so much about Irvin Magic is their outlook on life. And it's not a pose. It's not. It's not an image. It really is, you know, who he is. And that sort of, like, guileless, enthusiastic, straightforward.

[Pablo Torre]

No.

[Rob Lowe]

And I don't want to say childlike, because that is a. A connection, that it's somehow unsophisticated or not smart. And I'm not saying that.

[Pablo Torre]

But there is a purity, though.

[Rob Lowe]

A pure. Yeah, it's a purity about it. And, you know, you read LeBron James's thing, and you get he's always trying to be Nelson Mandela, right? And. And. And. And Magic, slash, Irving is just being himself.

[Pablo Torre]

This is maybe the thing about his Twitter account is that it's so authentically his voice that you wonder, like, is it just a performance because it's so consistent. And then you're like, well, why am I. Why am I being cynical about this?

[Rob Lowe]

It's a gift. Just accept the gift. Just accept the gift. It's one of the few, by the way. It might be the only joy left On Twitter.

[Pablo Torre]

Absolutely, Rob. Absolutely. The only joy I have left is Magic Johnson On July 17th of this summer, posting on Twitter, quote, positano, Italy is so beautiful. And they grow the biggest lemons I've ever seen in my life. Exclamation point.

[Rob Lowe]

It just puts a smile on your face.

[Pablo Torre]

We're both grinning in a very sincere way because without even showing you the tweet, you know that Magic Johnson in both hands is double fisting giant Italian lemons. Giant. And they're so big.

[Rob Lowe]

Giant lemons.

[Pablo Torre]

There's the question of, like, when the aliens come, who do we want to nominate as our, like, gladiator on behalf of Earth? People are always like, it's clearly LeBron James. And I'm like, if we want to. Who. Who.

[Rob Lowe]

Who's nominating him?

[Pablo Torre]

Who? Oh, wait, what? The greatest physical specimen that Earth has to.

[Rob Lowe]

Oh, I see.

[Pablo Torre]

In competition. Because we assume. Okay, but people assume that we're going to want to go to war with the aliens. And meanwhile, what you and I are on the same wavelength about, I think, is that if we want to, like, diplomatically figure some stuff out, I want Irvin. Magic Johnson with two giant lemons approaching.

[Rob Lowe]

Here's my pitch on Irvin's tweet. Post meeting the aliens, okay? Met with the aliens, period. They are not what I expected. Exclamation mark.

[Pablo Torre]

That's it. You nailed it.

[Rob Lowe]

Isn't that it?

[Pablo Torre]

I can't improve on that. And there would be a photo of Magic Johnson grinning ear to Earth, hand over shoulder with a gray with, like, a.

[Rob Lowe]

The gray can barely be in the photo because the grays are, like two and a half feet tall. You should do it. I'm sure. You must do a parlor game. Parlor trick game, where you have three. You have three quotes and one. Two of them are fake Magic Johnson, and one of them's real. You have to do that.

[Caller 3 / Various Callers]

Sure.

[Pablo Torre]

Absolutely. We're going to find some per. Happily best ofs, and we're going to. That's. I mean, that could be the game. Which, honestly, perhaps Johnson.

[Rob Lowe]

I mean, that's a. Oh, that's really good. Okay, let's do this. Let's get Shi Yang, you and me on the pod like this and play it.

[Pablo Torre]

Done.

[Rob Lowe]

I'm in.

[Pablo Torre]

Rob Lowe. On that note, all I have to say to you is in the words of Magic Johnson, thank you. Exclamation point.

[Rob Lowe]

Thanks, man. That was fun.

[Ryan Cortez]

I knew the name Rob Lowe going into the video, but, like, I didn't.

[Pablo Torre]

Know who he was.

[Ryan Cortez]

I didn't know who he was. I'm young. What do you want me to do?

[Pablo Torre]

Please tell me you appreciated what just happened there.

[Ryan Cortez]

I got lost watching it because there was a moment where I said, oh, I know who that is. I recognized him.

[Pablo Torre]

The West Wing. Parks and Rec. The Outsiders. Great movie.

[Ryan Cortez]

No, Austin Powers, bro.

[Pablo Torre]

The Eye Patch. I remember him.

[Ryan Cortez]

Young number two.

[Pablo Torre]

I just want our new friend of the show, Rob Lowe, to. To know that I understand his oeuvre. Even though Ryan Cortez, by the way, you also, like, discovered rock and roll as a concept over the pandemic. Nirvana, bro. So this is all this is. This is a love language, Cortez. But I. I did also want to be fair to. To any skeptics out there who wanted, like, the actual answer to the question, are our great listener. Left, right. Because we know now that it's Magic Johnson dictating the tweets. We know it's his voice incontrovertibly. But in terms of the person who is physically writing them, who is writing this account, there was even more digging that I had to do.

[Ryan Cortez]

Okay, what'd you find out?

[Pablo Torre]

So they wanted to keep all this a secret, obviously, the social media strategy. But I did all of these. I truly, like, investigated this. I did all of these interviews on background. I got to somebody who was in the room actually, while it was happening, Magic Johnson, with this mystery person posting to the account. And what I was told, okay, the person who physically posts for Magic Johnson was none other than Alexia Grievous Henderson herself. That.

[Ryan Cortez]

That's the name from the email, right?

[Pablo Torre]

That is the person who emailed us saying that they elect not to discuss the social media strategy is the person behind the social media strategy.

[Ryan Cortez]

I. I'm proud of you, man. Like, that's. That's actual journalism. You did it again. Good reporting by you.

[Pablo Torre]

We got to the bottom of just. Yeah. The greatest rich persons, you think? You know, if she wants to maybe help put me in touch with Magic so I can dap him up on, like, sea level. Maybe we can. We can, yeah. Work out a recommendation. A public endorsement from Pablo Tor finds out foreign. Cortez. It's obvious to everybody that we are the smart show at Meadowlark Media, dude. I mean, there was a time. Look who's in the chair.

[Ryan Cortez]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, okay. I didn't want to say it, but now I'll say it.

[Ryan Cortez]

There was a time we had Action Bronson on, and he was talking about into a warm toilet, how it emptied.

[Pablo Torre]

Out his whole bowel system, as well as Desus telling us that the poop in a crack house reminded him of Creme Brulee.

[Ryan Cortez]

Okay. The smartest show in metal art.

[Pablo Torre]

A little. Little crust on the top.

[Caller 3 / Various Callers]

You're right.

[Pablo Torre]

But I do want to get to an objectively smart voicemail about an objectively smart topic, if we could.

[Caller 3 / Various Callers]

Pablo, got a good idea for you. We need to find out who of the Wu Tang Clan is the best chess player. I've read a number of articles over the years that they played chess together when they were recording the 36 chambers. RZA and Giza seem to be the most open about their chess playing experiences. And Giza said he played 78 hours straight against Master Killer. So who's the best? You need to find out who of the Wu Tang is the best chess player.

[Ryan Cortez]

Now, I've heard of a lot of those people obviously shout out to Nirvana. You know, I discovered rock music knowledge is not the best.

[Pablo Torre]

This is. I like how the through line of this episode is Ryan Cortez finds out what music is. It's amazing. Proceed. Yes.

[Ryan Cortez]

So I just wanted to know who all is in the Wu Tang Clan.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, so this is a hard question for even like the most Wu Tang ologists to answer, because again, I just want to rerack this for everybody, right? There are lots of people in the Wu Tang Clan there, according to several actual music critics, one of the greatest just groups ever, let alone rap groups based in Staten island. And they love chess. And if I have any credibility with the Wu Tang Clan, it's because they get the vibe of. Of, you know, people who maybe like, yeah, like to do some nerdy things sometimes. And so they have songs about chess, they play chess. And there are lots of possible answers here to answer your question as to who the best chess player might be, because there is Method man, there's Old Dirty Bastard, there is Raekwon, there is Ghostface, there is Master Killer, there's Capadonna. You God. Inspector Deck, rza, Jizza. There are lots of candidates.

[Ryan Cortez]

Inspector Deck, that's a good name.

[Pablo Torre]

It's a great name. And so what we did was we reached out to our reporting intern to get to the bottom of this story. Dan Lebatard.

[Ryan Cortez]

I've heard of him.

[Pablo Torre]

To get a comment from Method man himself. Hey, Dan, what's up? It never ends right. You see my hat? Yeah. Kings in New York right now, you know, I'm just thinking, what if. And Rogers never got hurt. And this was mostly just Method man giving us jets takes or meth. I know he's wearing a jets Hat he's, like, lying down on, like, a floor somewhere. But he did follow up, thankfully, with a text message where he put three names, three names on the metal stand of best chess player in the Bhutan clan. Okay. He mentioned Master Killer, he mentioned Ghostface, and he mentioned Jezza. And that also, obviously, was not enough for my journalistic tastes. And so we called up the first name that he mentioned. So this is an honor for me. I need to tell you that I'm a fan and also a journalist with a question. Do I call you Killer? What should I, Pablo Torres, say to you as a. As a way of, like, addressing you? What do you prefer?

[Master Killer (Jamel)]

Call me Jamel, man.

[Pablo Torre]

That's easier.

[Master Killer (Jamel)]

Master Killer is what I do.

[Pablo Torre]

Jamel, I got some intel, and I should say that our source is your colleague, Method man, who power ranked the 3 greatest chess players in the Wu Tang Clan. And the medal stand, in no particular order, is you, Ghostface, and Giza. Does that sound right? What's. What's your scouting report?

[Master Killer (Jamel)]

Well, if he said I was number one, that's.

[Rob Lowe]

That's correct.

[Pablo Torre]

He didn't provide an order, but I'm open to your order. This is why I'm calling you up.

[Master Killer (Jamel)]

I'll be honest and say, you know, the number one slot could go between me, TZA and RZA at any given time.

[Pablo Torre]

What's crazy about this to me is that there's actually, like, plausible cases for so many of you guys. Like, I don't know if you know this, but I just saw an article out of, like, Arizona recently where, like, Capadonna was, like, working some sort of, like, chess tournament for kids. Like, he showed up there, and I was like, madonna, am I breaking news to you about this?

[Master Killer (Jamel)]

That's definitely news to me. You know, I think we all play chess in our own ways, you know, because, you know, it's definitely, I would say, affiliated with life. You know what I mean? It teaches you so many lessons. That's what drew me to the game in itself. Just the patience. The patience that you learn.

[Pablo Torre]

And how often did you guys play against each other? I'm asking you to rank.

[Master Killer (Jamel)]

Every day. Every day. Every day. Me and DZA played 72 games one day.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm sorry, 72 consecutive in one day.

[Master Killer (Jamel)]

72. We started, like, that morning, and we ended late at night. I mean, we took breaks and we ate and we, you know, listened to music or whatever, but the whole day, we just played chess all day. I mean, we had so many days like that. But that particular day, we played, like, 72 straight. We counted it. 72. Yeah, we love it, man.

[Pablo Torre]

What was the, the win loss record for you, Master Killa playing Jizza? 72 games consecutively in one day?

[Master Killer (Jamel)]

Oh man, I can't remember the win loss, but more likely I was on top, you know.

[Pablo Torre]

What's your, what's your scouting report? Right, so I want a self scouting report of mass killer by Master Kill, how he plays chess versus the other members of, of the Wu Tang Clan. How what distinguishes your game?

[Master Killer (Jamel)]

I'm just an all natural with it. You know, some, some of my brothers, you know, they study books, which you should. I mean, knowledge is infinite, so you can never stop learning. There's always room for improvement. There's always room to learn. You know, some of my brothers, they study different chess masters. I'm just a natural. I absorb and adapt to my opponent, you know, and I like to just stay free like that. I don't like to box myself into any, you know, certain openings or, you know, I just like to be free with it.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm, I'm hearing you say between the lines that you're unpredictable. Some of your nerd friends in the Wu Tang Clan are more predictable. That's what I got from what your scouting report.

[Master Killer (Jamel)]

I think we all nerds.

[Pablo Torre]

I get the sense reading between the lines here again, that you like the psychological warfare of an in person chess game.

[Master Killer (Jamel)]

Yeah, I love it, man. Like I said, you know, nothing like moving the pieces, you know, nothing like hitting the clock, you know, right here. Nothing like a little smack talk right here in your face, you know, it's not like that. It's not like the thrill of that, you know, Muhammad Ali won a lot of his fights before he even entered the ring. You know, Mike Tyson had you intimidated before you even entered the ring, you know, so I kind of took a little bit of their strategies and you know, if I can shake you before you get no. 64 squares and half the battle is one.

[Pablo Torre]

Have there been great rap songs, lyrics about chess? Whether. I don't know if you've written them, I don't know if you've performed them. What's the best example of that?

[Master Killer (Jamel)]

I'm sure that a lot of artists have made some references to chess, you know, because I know more than just the Wu Tang Clan plays chess. I, I know that I think Jay Z plays.

[Pablo Torre]

Over my years, I've seen rooks get took in by the night, lose their clown for trying to defend the queen. Checkmate. Wait a minute now though, I'm realizing, okay, so I know Jay Z plays chess too. So if I'm telling you Master Killer in person versus Jay Z at the.

[Master Killer (Jamel)]

Chessboard, oh, Jay's going down, Jay's going down, Jay's going down. It's either you give a lesson or you learn one. You know, there's no losses in chess. But that day, I'll be given a lesson. The patience of choice is the jewels of life. Think before you speak or move. And I think with that, you will be so much better off in life in general, in so many situations, probably all situations.

[Pablo Torre]

Master Killer, the. The best chess player officially in the Wu Tang Clan, and I would say the king of all rappers when it comes to chess. Thank you for joining. Pablo Torre finds out.

[Master Killer (Jamel)]

I appreciate you. Thank you for having me, brother.

[Ryan Cortez]

Bro, the vibe of that guy, pretty incredible. When you, like, juxtapose what his name is, Master Killer, it doesn't really seem like the type of guy that's gonna murder you.

[Pablo Torre]

He's a great. Well, he's a great hang. And it is, to your point, a bit ironic that Mastakilla preaches patience and prudence more than a. A guy named Parakeet Cortez. That feels a bit of a switch.

[Ryan Cortez]

What do you think I do on Twitter? That's different.

[Pablo Torre]

I know that you preach the opposite. I do want to get out of this topic, though, as we anoint Mastakila, as of course the gold medalist in the Pablo Torre finds out. Chess tournament among all rappers by reminding you, Cortez, what Masticilla does actually rap about on the way out of this.

[Ryan Cortez]

Segment, I'd like to know.

[Pablo Torre]

Homicides illegal and death is a penalty. What justifies the homicide when he dies in his own iniquity? It's the master of the mantis raptor coming at you. All right, so Master Killer's vibe did inspire me some. He wanted me to own my. My nerd dome. And so let's get even nerdier at the end here, which is a dangerous thing, of course, but what's next?

[Caller 3 / Various Callers]

Hey, Pablo, what I'd like you to find out is where does human evolution stop? Are we just going to get a new Victor Weminyama every 15 years where they break all the, you know, anatomical molds? Or is there some sort of leveling out that will eventually have to happen before. What's your phrase? Bag of meat and bones? We all just fall apart and nothing works anymore. Love the show, Hope you use it.

[Pablo Torre]

So thank you for loving the show, but the word is meat sack. So we called up for this story. My smartest science friend, Cortez, you know him, David Epstein, the best sports science rate in America. The man who wrote a bestseller, bestselling book range and also the sports gene. Those are his two bestsellers. What's funny about this one is that he pointed out that the answer to this listener's question is actually less about the genes of the next great athletic specimen than like also access to sports itself.

[Caller 3 / Various Callers]

Okay.

[David Epstein]

I think we probably overestimate the portion of the global population that has real access to any reasonable opportunity to do sports. Like Pablo, I think I mentioned to you that at the recent world championships in track and field, a guy from Botswana won a medal in the 100 meters. That was the first African man to win a medal in the 100 meters in the world championships.

[Pablo Torre]

Wow. The first I would have taken the over.

[David Epstein]

Right. Whereas many people of recent African ancestry have won many, many medals in the 100 meters in world championships. And I think that just goes to show that like most people in the world don't have real access to this kind of stuff to training.

[Pablo Torre]

You know, we overestimate the idea that the people who could compete are already competing.

[David Epstein]

Yeah. So I think there's tons of, you know, hidden or undeveloped talent out there. Like more people. As sports get more competitive, more people are selected out either because of their genes or because of their opportunities and training environment and stuff like that. So I think there's a lot of the world still, you know, still a lot of talent to explore. A lot of the increase in height over generations has been nutrition and decreased childhood infection, things that stunt height. But some of it has also been, you know, a sort of mating, taller people, having kids with taller people. And if you look at this research, even people who have higher VO2 max, which is their ability to move oxygen through their body to get it to their muscles, it's a predictor of endurance. Tend to have kids with other people who have higher VO2 max.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[David Epstein]

So there may be a lot of this so called assortive mating, which is people procreating based on characteristics that are similar, whether they think about them or not. That I certainly think could, could have an impact. I still think though that there's a lot of ground left to be had in more, more again so called freaks and just like giving access an opportunity to a lot of the world that doesn't have it.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. So in other words, Victor Wembanyamas, which is to say guys who are increasingly extreme, tall, long, thin in ways that would be truly like as if, I don't know Bob Koozie were to encounter an alien, more guys like that you can see arriving, but simply because they're already out there and now they might have a more comfortable fit on an NBA team, you know, and, and maybe.

[David Epstein]

Pro like NBA and WNBA players having kids. Like, you know, two people are seven feet tall.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[David Epstein]

Have a kid. It's still unlikely that that kid is going to be 7ft tall because that's so extreme. But it's way more likely than just random chance that they're going to be seven feet tall. So I do think that, you know, athletes having kids could. Could have some. Some impact.

[Pablo Torre]

I got a very clear message from you, which is that Victor Wembanyama better have a lot of sex.

[David Epstein]

I mean, look, if there were a thing, if, if it were like you're treating it like a horse.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[David Epstein]

Like certain people's breeding rights would be. Go for a lot.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, man. Dude, his semen would be so expensive.

[Ryan Cortez]

What you just said, ridiculous though it is, is humbling to me as someone under 6ft compared to Victor. Women like my semen.

[Pablo Torre]

I didn't want to say it.

[Ryan Cortez]

Is it not going to be worth as much as Victor Wimanyama? Because that seems unfair. I have a great Twitter account.

[Pablo Torre]

Cortez. What you found out today is that your semen is mid.

[Ryan Cortez]

No, that's just one man's opinion.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, it's science's opinion. I mean, I'm not saying that mine is like, you know, premium grade.

[Ryan Cortez]

You and I are ejaculate either height wise.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, hold on. My boat is definitely taller than your boat.

[Ryan Cortez]

I mean, it's marginally taller.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, relative to Victor and Banyama. Fair. But, but, but speaking of. Of. Of climax, David also did point out something interesting, which is that we've probably climaxed as a species in terms of height, like Victor Wembanyama. You know, seven foot four and, and rising architecturally, athletically. We're probably not going to do taller than him. Not much taller. Even though there have been like, exceptions. It feels like as much as we can push it.

[Ryan Cortez]

Unless he's standing on the couch, you mean? I'm just saying. I mean, that's a way to see.

[Pablo Torre]

Standing on a couch or, you know, trying to a WNBA all Star. Okay. Which I'm also in favor of, by the way. There's in that case only one way to find out for the gene pool. Exactly. What's next?

[Caller 3 / Various Callers]

Pablo, you need to find out where Cotton Ball man is now. What happened with him? You have to find out where he is. Now find out, Pablo.

[Pablo Torre]

So this is an appropriately desperate plea, because we did this episode, one of my favorite episodes. I love all our episodes like, they're my kids. But this one, our interview with Maury Povich was special, and it was special because we watched Maury with Maury and Cortez. My favorite clip from that whole thing was the clip of one of the phobia episodes that Maury Povich would do. And these were iconic, and this one in specific. And this is a genre where people who are terrified of confront that in studio, in person. And this woman, Emily, had a very clear phobia, which was cotton balls.

[Ryan Cortez]

You know what I'm gonna ask you. You know why we're here?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Ryan Cortez]

Did you do your job? Did you find this guy?

[Pablo Torre]

I am pleased to tell America that we have located Cotton Ball Man. We got him.

[Jimmy Shearman]

I have done things with cotton that nobody's done. I. And that's dawn, you know, an entire suit made of cotton.

[Pablo Torre]

No. You've got to confront your phobia now.

[Rob Lowe]

This is the famous Maury Show.

[Pablo Torre]

Cotton Ball Man.

[Jimmy Shearman]

My name is Jimmy Shearman, and I've worked for the Maury show for over 20 years. I was a driver. I was a travel assistant. I was an audience coordinator. Then eventually I became a field producer. The thought process, when approaching a role like Cotton man, you have to keep in mind that Cotton man is evil. He's a demonic, demonic beast. He's there to kind of terrorize. So in approaching that role, you know, back in the day, I used to do a lot of side acting for the show where I would be, you know, a jealous spouse murdering his wife or whatever. I think I took some of that intensity from those roles and applied it to the. The beast that is Cotton Man. And I remember getting the outfit, and it was basically like oven mitts with cotton balls glued all over them. And I think it was like a box cut with holes cut for the eyes and just cotton balls glued all over it. You're backstage, okay, get out there. And you're just, you know, Frankenstein coming to, you know, coming to wreak havoc on this person, this poor person, this poor, unsuspecting person, and. And, you know, basically reveal their biggest fear.

[Pablo Torre]

Cotton Ball Man.

[Jimmy Shearman]

I followed her partially, and I think someone stopped me possibly because, you know, there came a time where it was like, okay, the joke is too, like, we don't want to get too mean.

[Rob Lowe]

Bring her back here. Emily, come here. There's nobody up here.

[Jimmy Shearman]

And if the person's really freaking out, like, let's Just cut it. So I think security might have stopped.

[Caller 1 / Various Callers]

Me or something like that.

[Jimmy Shearman]

I don't think wearing the same suit made me afraid of cotton. I still wear cotton. I. I wear cotton shirts and cotton underwear and. Just like everybody else. Yeah. I don't think that it increased my fear of cotton or anything. I don't have a fear of cotton. Don't like the way it feels sometimes. Being the cotton man. I think I know cotton.

[Pablo Torre]

Wait, wait. So. So wait. Can we. Can we just replay him saying what his name is for the record? Again, just real quick.

[Jimmy Shearman]

My name is Jimmy Shearman.

[Pablo Torre]

Jimmy Shearman Cortez. Ironic, do you see? I mean, it's more than ironic. There's a better word for it, actually.

[Ryan Cortez]

Go ahead.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. It's aptronymic. An aptronym. It's a name that's amusingly appropriate for the occupation of the person that has said name.

[Ryan Cortez]

How did you know that?

[Pablo Torre]

James Jimmy Shearman. Right. Is Shearman. Is Cotton Ball Man. I mean, I'm just glad that he gave a middle finger to God when he took this position. 51385 Pablo, please, please call. Send Ryan Cortez more musical suggestions so we can find out. I don't know who the F. Beethoven is.

[Ryan Cortez]

Shout out to Rage against the Machine.

[Pablo Torre]

God, none of this is a joke.

[Ryan Cortez]

Rock music is amazing.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm just saying it's so good. You don't say. This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out A Meadowlark Media Production.