The Undercover Life of J.P. Lehman

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: "The Undercover Life of J.P. Lehman"

Date: June 26, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Guest: "Hub Orr" (aka JP Lehman, The Wall Street Fat Cat)

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Overview

In this episode, Pablo Torre dives into the double life of "Hub Orr," a high-powered managing director at global investment bank Jefferies… who moonlights on nights and weekends as an independent professional wrestler named JP Lehman, the “Wall Street Fat Cat.” What starts as an exposé of a quirky alter ego becomes a nuanced conversation about workplace identity, the pursuit of passion in adulthood, and the interconnected drama of capitalism and professional wrestling.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Meet Hub Orr / JP Lehman—Suit by Day, Heel by Night

• Hub Orr’s Professional Background ([01:22]–[01:36]):
  • Managing director in consumer and retail investment at Jefferies.
  • “Wall Street type stuff… I take companies public, help them raise debt… sell them.”
  • “When you want to sell Pablo Torre and everything associated with it to the highest bidder, you call me.”
• The Big Reveal ([02:53]):
  • “Pablo, I am an independent professional wrestler.” — Hub Orr
  • Wrestling persona: JP Lehman, “Weighing in at 80% equities and 20% fixed income… too big to fail. From Wall Street, this is JP Lehman.” ([03:09], C)

2. Building the JP Lehman Persona

• Signature Moves—Finance Puns for a Niche Audience ([03:32]–[05:25]):
  • “Inverted yield curve” (vertical suplex), the “EBITDA adjustment” (homage to John Cena’s finisher), and the “stock bottom” (nod to The Rock).
  • “The Venn diagram of people who know John Cena’s Attitude Adjustment and understand what an EBITDA adjustment is… is probably one person, and I think it’s probably me.” ([04:56], B)
• Persona Inspiration:
  • “The best wrestling gimmicks are the real person underneath the costume cranked up to 11… JP Lehman is probably a 13 or 14 relative to Hub Orr.” ([20:23], B)
  • Props include reading The Wall Street Journal in the ring, making promo videos about airline status, and taking real-life I-banking frustrations into wrestling matches.

3. Wrestling Journey: From Bank Boardrooms to VFW Halls

• Training and Hazing ([08:54]–[09:44]):
  • Attended wrestling school after asking wife for permission; sat in his car for a month too nervous to enter.
  • Fear of “stretching”; classic hazing in wrestling to weed out those who aren’t serious.
• Pain and Physicality ([10:49], [11:42], [13:38]):
  • “The physical risk is unambiguously real… it hurts.”
  • “What hurts the most are the Legos.” ([13:59], B)
  • Describes injuries: missing two front teeth from a misheard move during training ([14:47]).
  • “I have to go home to my wife and three children with no two front teeth… that was effectively the end of the party for me.” ([16:18]–[16:59], B)

4. Independent Wrestling: The Economics and Community

• Motivation Beyond Money ([26:11]):
  • “I could probably make anywhere between 40 and 80 bucks a show. I often ask promoters don’t pay with money, give me time...”
  • “The day job feeds the character… the character also impacts the day job.” ([26:53])
• Minor Leagues to WWE:
  • WWE is “the majors;” Hub doesn’t expect to make it but relishes the journey ([17:40]).

5. Financial Lingo, Real-life Crossover, and Wrestling Artistry

• Work Experiences Used as Wrestling Gags ([21:47]–[24:01]):
  • The infamous “client call” bit: Hub answers an imaginary call in the ring, parodying a real humiliating work moment when his own boss interrupted a bonus meeting (with a client on the phone).
  • “Best art comes from a sense of real despair and tragedy.” ([24:01], B)

6. Identity, Exposure, and Embracing the Quirk

• Going “Public” with the Secret Life ([24:39]–[26:04]):
  • Wrestling scout wanted to promote his social media; faced the “nuclear button" moment of revealing his double life to his professional world.
  • “You only live once. You better do the stuff you want to do.”
• Impact on Community and Self ([40:44]–[42:59]):
  • Initial shame has become pride as strangers come up to him, sometimes inspired.
  • “Everyone has a quirk like this… and you either suppress it or embrace it.”

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Duality of Work/Life:
  • “For the past seven years it’s been possible to maintain a Wall Street day job with… whatever you want to call this night job.” ([07:02], B)
• On the Minutiae of Independent Wrestling:
  • “Events occur at breweries, VFW halls, fairgrounds… every variety of low brow venue you can imagine.” ([07:21], B)
• On Physical Risk:
  • “The first time you bump… your neck feels as though you’ve been in a car wreck.” ([10:49], B)
  • “That reaction right there in that freeze frame is real… what penetrates the adrenaline shield is the Lego.” ([14:14], B)
• On Professional Wrestling & Wall Street as Metaphor:
  • “Everything is pro wrestling… The skill set, the moral hazards, everything, fact, fiction being blurred. All of this feels like the ultimate American metaphor.” ([27:44], A)
• JP Lehman Promo: ([44:02]–[46:21])
  • “What do I look like, Larsa Pippin? Do I look like Jordan Hudson?... You are a barnacle on the hull of the passing frigate that is mainstream sports culture… You are a leech. You are an ab. Solute leech... My name is JP Lehman. I am the Wall street fat cat. I am the BSD of NYC. I am too big to fail. And you and your stupid little show can take that to the bank.”
• On “Going Public”:
  • “That JP Lehman IPO, so to speak, was a really difficult decision.” ([25:42], B)
• On Uniting Passions and Work:
  • “Most importantly, I think this all works when both of these things happen, the day job feeds the character… the character also impacts the day job.” ([26:53], B)
• On Inspiration to Others:
  • “If someone leaves a show and says ‘I want to play guitar or… paint or… learn piano’—I’m convinced everyone has a quirk like this. You either suppress it or embrace it.” ([41:58], B)

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• 00:00–03:09: Introduction; revealing alter ego
• 03:32–05:25: Signature wrestling moves explained
• 07:02–08:54: Balancing Wall Street and wrestling; independent scene
• 10:49–14:36: Physical pain, training, and “Legos” moment
• 14:47–17:12: Most serious injury; family reaction
• 20:23–21:44: How finance world shapes wrestling persona
• 21:47–24:01: “Client call” spot in the ring; blending finance and wrestling drama
• 26:04–26:53: Why wrestling isn’t about money
• 31:12–36:24: Recapping matches: JP Lehman vs Effie; stock market street fight, crowd reactions, and spontaneous in-ring moments
• 40:44–42:59: Embracing visibility, identity, and inspiring others
• 44:02–46:21: Full JP Lehman promo unleashed on Pablo

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Tone and Style

• Conversational, quick-witted, self-deprecating banter
• Deeply detailed, with playful but pointed finance references
• Blend of earnest life advice and tongue-in-cheek wrestling theater

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Why Listen?

This episode isn’t just about a guy in a suit doing wrestling moves. It’s about the masks we wear, the passions we suppress, and the healing power of fully embracing who we are—whether that’s at a Midtown boardroom table or as a “Wall Street Fat Cat” body-slamming someone onto a pile of Legos for a bunch of cheering brewery fans.

Closing Gem:

“My business school roommate once said, 'I wish I loved anything as much as you love pro wrestling.' … Everyone has one of these things. They just need to find it and let it bloom.” ([41:58], B)

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[B]

Sir, you are a leech. You are an ab. Solute leech.

[A]

Right after this ad. For those who are not watching and are merely listening, I do want to describe what you look like. Go ahead, Try not to be insulting.

[B]

Insult me away.

[A]

You look like you just foreclosed on someone's loan. You just took them out of their house. It looks like you caused the financial crisis, frankly.

[B]

Thankfully, I did not. But I'm gonna take that as a compliment.

[A]

You're wearing a suit. Power tie. Again, I'm not saying that you're Mike Pence's stunt double, but something something to that. Now that I see you face to face for the first time. And thank you for being here, by the way. Of course, Hub, or yes, is what I'm calling you.

[B]

That is indeed my name. H U B O R R. You.

[A]

Have a political affect. It looks like you're in charge of some man, and I don't know if that's a good thing.

[B]

Some days it is, some days it isn't.

[A]

So you're here in New York, you live in Charlotte.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And what is your job as you Hub or day to day?

[B]

I'm a managing director at a global investment bank.

[A]

That tracks.

[B]

I'm dressed for exactly what you expect me to be dressed for.

[A]

What does that mean?

[B]

It is Wall street type stuff. I mean, I work in the consumer and retail space, so I work with companies big and small. I take them public. So take them, put them on the stock market so you can buy their stock. I help them raise debt should they need debt to go and, you know, do whatever they need to do. And I sell them. So when you want to sell Pablo Torre and everything associated with it to the highest bidder, you call me and I'll help you run a process, find a buyer, get you the highest valuation, all that stuff. But I do it for consumer retail companies, sporting goods companies, stuff like that. I work for Jeffries.

[A]

We're talking one of the biggest investment banks in the world.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

$7 billion in net revenue last year. Five times bigger than the WWE. To just pull an example clearly at random, not specific at all for the time being. But you're an I banker. Does your boss at Jeffries know that you're here right now?

[B]

Very few, if any people at Jeffries have any idea not only that I'm here, but what I may do on nights and weekends.

[A]

So your nights and weekends, which is clearly in the vein of some alter ego. Some may say superhero, others may say, depending on how, I don't know, 2008 went for them. Super villain. You're comfortable revealing your identity now to the world?

[B]

For us, there is, from my estimation, no stopping it. So I'd rather go big or go home. Pablo, I am an independent professional wrestler.

[A]

And your name?

[B]

JP Lehman, the Wall Street Fat Cat.

[C]

Weighing in at 80% equities and 20% fixed income, standing in at too big to fail. From Wall street, this is JP Lehman.

[A]

What are some of JP Lehman, the Wall Street Fat Cat's moves?

[B]

JP Lehman has a deep repertoire of moves. In no particular order, he has the inverted yield curve crowd. He's got his health, he's got his wealth. It is a typical vertical suplex, but when you put the inverted yield curve spin on it, it sounds a little bit better.

[A]

That seems effective.

[B]

That's a setup move. Usually I'll set people up with the inverted yield curve. Excuse me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. That's just the amuse bouche.

[B]

That is merely an appetizer.

[C]

Pablo Wall Street Driver by JP Lehman.

[B]

There is the EBITDA adjustment, which is closer to the finish. That is a play on John Cena's finishing move. If you know John Cena, he does the attitude adjustment. It is putting someone on my shoulders and dropping them very quickly on their back to the mat. It's a setup move for my finisher, John Cena, his attitude adjustment move. Only wrestling fans will know about that. And then if you work in finance, you know what an EBITDA adjustment is.

[A]

And can you please help us explain.

[B]

It is when a company is earning X, but you adjust it up to make it look like, or seem as though, or proform it such that they're earning Y.

[C]

Look at the rabid look on the eyes of JP Lehman. He's doing all this in basically a suit, by the way.

[B]

Now, the way I've kind of thought about this, and you tell me if I'm wrong, is the Venn diagram of those who know what John Cena's attitude adjustment is and understand what an EBITDA adjustment is. Is. Is probably one person, and I think it's probably me. And so to me, this is sort of a. A play on words that no one else cares for, understands or gives a rip about. But it gives me a chuckle.

[A]

In that way, you and I are not so different.

[B]

I've spent, you know, the preceding 10 to 12 to 15 minutes, you know, beating up my opponent, and I'd like to finish them off with a move that I call the stock bottom.

[C]

The only way le can get out of the hole. Stock bottom.

[B]

That is, I think probably, obviously for many a play on rock bottom. Exactly.

[A]

I do smell what you're cooking.

[B]

I smell exactly what I'm appreciate that you smell what I'm cooking as well.

[A]

Sometimes. Occasionally too. So I'm not a huge lifelong wrestling fan or anything, as was recently established by our recent investigation into how wrestling infiltrated the 1998 NBA Finals. But I also don't really see the story of Hub or our episode today as the story of one of the hundred most popular athletes in American minor league pro wrestling, which he is. I see this story as a story about the conflict between your job on the one hand and your passion on the other. And what happens when you realize that nobody who knows you from the former is going to find out about the latter.

[B]

That is correct. Which is why for the past seven years it's been possible to maintain, you know, a Wall street day job with a. Whatever you want to call this night job. The events occur at breweries, at VFW halls, at fairgrounds all over the U.S. frankly, New York, anywhere around the country, 30 to 40 probably independent wrestling promotions putting on events all, all around you all weekend. It runs the gamut of every degree and variety of low brow venue you can possibly imagine.

[A]

Pablo and I did not realize this, admittedly I did not realize that I am at apparently all times, including right here in New York City surrounded by wrestlers. But New York City is not where JP Lehman, the unholy amalgamation of JP Morgan and Lehman Brothers, the wrestler you'll meet in a bit here, was born.

[B]

It's a long, twisty journey. It starts with obviously being interested in being a fan of pro wrestling, which I've been my entire life. And the first step is school. It's like anything else, you gotta go to school.

[A]

And this gray haired I banker did. He went to Duke and then the Kellogg School of Management thereafter. And then he moved from New York, where he had worked for Morgan Stanley, to North Carolina to work for Jeffries. But that's also not the school that we're talking about. Because in 2018, hub or mustered up the courage to ask his wife, the mother of his children, for permission to live his childhood dream and enroll in wrestling school. And because this woman understood her husband in ways that Hub or's co workers never could or would, she said yes.

[B]

And for the first month I went and I sat outside the venue and I just listened. I was too. I don't know if scared is the right word, but I was not ready to take the plunge and go in and actually start for a lot of reasons, but one of which is pro wrestling schools have a notorious history of stretching. Is what they use the parlance. They use stretching newcomers. The idea is that you weed out those who are not really interested or in it for the wrong reasons and not going to put in the work. So I was very concerned about walking in and now they see what you see. They see gray hair, they see a dad bod. They see, you know, not someone who's serious about this. And then I get stretched and then I'm walking home with like a broken arm.

[A]

So in the grand tradition of stretching, which sounds like a version of hazing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What does that entail?

[B]

It entails, from what I understand, this is more of an old school concept. Pain. There's a famous story, whether it's true or not, which all of wrestling is. You could caveat with that, whether it's true or not, of Hulk Hogan's first training session in Florida. Broke his leg. To see, to some extent, will Hulk Hogan come back? And he did.

[A]

Right. I mean, I think this is where I do need to channel my friend Dan Soder, who is an enormous wrestling fan. The world's foremost macho man impersonator.

[C]

I was always very proud of you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Couple of those birthday gifts weren't the best, but you bought it with your heart. Yeah. When you buy all your hearts, the best gift you can have. I love you, son. You're doing a good job.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I do need to channel him because he always reminds that, yes, there is a scripted storyline aspect, if I may break that fourth wall already, but the physical risk is unambiguously real.

[B]

Yes, it hurts. There's no two ways around it. It hurts. The first time you bump. You get in there. For my first session, it was get on. Here's how you bump. Do 10 of them and you wake up the next morning and your neck, it's right here, right here in your neck. It feels as though you've been in a car wreck. And then through bravery, stupidity or something in between, you go back and eventually your body becomes. I don't know if it's okay with it or what, but you develop some sort of antidote to it.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know if antidote is medically speaking there.

[B]

Right, Exactly. But you become accustomed to it. The other thing is, when you're in the ring in front of people, be it at a show or at training, there's an adrenaline piece of this that can't be overlooked, where your adrenaline is pumping and that masks any of the pain. But, I mean, there are injuries, there have been injuries. It's the way it goes. Yeah.

[A]

I would like to relive with you some of that adrenaline because we have a bit of a montage here, and if you are not watching this on our YouTube channel, I just gotta jump in here to point out that this is worth seeing. If you're only hearing this, what you gotta understand is that when Hub or describes the surge of adrenaline he gets when he transforms into JP Lehman, the pain he becomes impervious to includes the pain of wrapping his thighs around someone's face only to be chucked backwards through a table. Not to mention the pain of getting kicked right in the throat and somersaulting onto a garbage can.

[C]

He hasn't had luck, but with it, and it won't be today, no one home except the garbage can and also.

[A]

Taking a metal ladder right to the head. But in all of the JP Lehman game tape that I have watched, which has been a lot, I also don't think that anything compares to the visual, the sheer visual of him climbing up onto the turnbuckle and then front flipping onto every parent's nightmare shot again.

[C]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[A]

What I want your colleagues at this I bank to see is the still frame of you making eye contact with the camera. And it's the whole. You may be wondering how I wound up in this situation. You got a tie tied around your head, you're shirtless, and what is all.

[B]

Around you, that is Legos. Legos are in the background. That is probably of everything you just witnessed. The garbage can, the kick to the Adam's apple, the being thrown over the top. I can't remember the latter. Drew blood. That one was pouring blood. But it didn't hurt. What hurts the most are the Legos.

[A]

What penetrates the adrenaline shield is the Lego is. Is the feeling that any dad, I. I am amongst them. Any dad knows from stepping on a Lego, you basically had your entire body flung upon.

[B]

That is correct. I did a top rope front flip onto probably 300 Legos, each of which had between four and seven distinct points on the edges of them. And so that reaction right there in that freeze frame is real. And then the adrenaline kicks in, the pain subsides, and then you go into the, you know, the scripted or you know, the selling.

[A]

Allegedly move.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So there's, there's the selling, but then there's the serious how serious are the injuries when it comes to, like, your. Your battle scars?

[B]

So for me, there are many stories of people severely injured. For me, my most serious injury was these two front teeth right here that are fake. I was training on a Thursday night I still remember in late November with a couple people, one of whom was a guy named Lucky Ali across the Southeast, who is now contracted by the wwe. It goes by Saquon Sugars. And he dumps me with a body slam, hits the ropes and says, move on the knee. Just easy part, easy conversation. Move on the knee.

[A]

What does move on the knee mean?

[B]

Move on the knee means I'm gonna drop a knee, you move. I unfortunately heard none of that. So he drops the knee right across my face. I don't move and I see teeth just everywhere on the mat. It's a Thursday night. I have to go home to my wife and three children with no two front teeth. What makes it all worse is that it was right before Thanksgiving. So we have a lineup of friendsgiving parties that weekend. Oh, yeah. For which I am worried I'm going to show up with no front teeth. We are new to a town, so Emergency dental appointment, 8am the next morning, where they can't give me full teeth and real teeth, but they give me plaster, which can get me through the weekend. So I have two plaster teeth right.

[A]

Here.

[B]

Which is great until I get to, you know, the Saturday night party with all of my wife's friends and some, you know, people in the Charlotte banking scene and about two glasses of red wine in I go to the restroom and take a look in the mirror and these plaster teeth are more purple or blue than your sweater right now. And so I feverishly work to clean these teeth and during that teeth cleaning exercise, they all come out. And so I have two teeth dangling like this. And that was effectively the end of the party for me.

[A]

What did your wife say?

[B]

Strike one. Said you got three strikes, you're on strike one. So thankfully that's been the worst, I would say, or the, the closest brush with, you know.

[A]

Divorce.

[B]

Yeah, divorce. So, you know, being a social pariah, anything in between. But otherwise she's been incredibly supportive.

[A]

I'm trying to analogize this to sports, so forgive me if this feels again, insulting and simplistic. But if you are working your way up through the independent wrestling scene, which feels on some level like the minors.

[B]

Exactly right.

[A]

WWE would be the majors.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

What does the big show feel like to you?

[B]

I mean, miles and miles away and certainly not something I ever got into. This envisioning I would achieve, I mean, I am 40 years old, give or take.

[A]

I was going to profile you based on the hair that does not feel like dye.

[B]

No, this is a legitimate salt and pepper ironed it. The, the impetus for all of this was February of 2024. There was a local seminar, effectively with one of the WWE scouts, a man named Gabe Sapolsky, who's been very kind to me with his time and he goes around the country, puts on these seminars and will watch wrestlers wrestle and he'll give you feedback. And you know, in two cases locally in the Carolinas, has said, you two, you're going to the show. And so I went to one of these. He watched one of my matches and he pulled me aside in front of, you know, probably 100 people. And I was expecting nothing, by the way. And he said, I love this. This should be everywhere. But after that he said, we're never going to hire you.

[A]

You have to borrow the language of your day job. Clearly found a market inefficiency when it comes to the cast of wrestling caricatures. There are guys who love snakes. There are guys who, I mean, you just go down the list of like the types of guys, the templates of guys that have every sort of animal seems to have representation. Correct. But the thing that is most villainous about late stage capitalism happens to be a who you actually are in real life. But more to the point, it is rich with potential when it comes to playing a heel.

[B]

And yet there have been many who have done something similar. You go Back to Ted DiBiase, Million Dollar Man.

[C]

I'm here, I'm here. The Million Dollar man is here.

[B]

You have recent examples. Matt Hardy, who is in the wwe, did something called the Hardy Family Office. I could go on and on with people who have done the quote unquote rich guy gimmick. The reason I think I'm different, not and I. This is not a commercial or anything like that, but it is sort of, you know, why I wanted to do it is I don't think anyone has done it with the specific Wall street bent, with the kind of knowledge and experience in a decade plus of actual Wall street experience of Ebida, of EBITDA adjustments and sell side mandates and private equity dry powder and you know, cov light term loan bees and stuff like that that I can weave into the character that are completely legit and authentic.

[A]

Like actually you taking stuff that you do in your office into the ring all the time.

[B]

All the time. JP Leman, the. The best way to describe what the best wrestling gimmicks and characters are is that they are the real person underneath the costume. Cranked up to 11. Stone Cold Steve Austin is Steve Williams. Cranked up to 11. The Rock is Dwayne Johnson. Cranked up to 11. JP Lehman is probably a 13 or 14 relative to Hub War. Hub War is nowhere near as bombastic or insulting or aggressive or combative as JP Lehman. But there are hints and tinges of things that I would never say in my real life, but may have thought that for JP Lehman, there's no filter. You know, I read a newspaper when the, the, when my opponent is being introduced. I sit on the turnbuckle and I read the Wall Street Journal or the Financial Times.

[A]

Your legs crossed, glasses on, power pose. Yep.

[B]

The reason I believe this works is just that experience and the ability, and it happens all the time to hear something on a Wednesday in the office or on the road and translate that into the character. So I have colleagues, you know, we travel a lot for work. I have colleagues who are hotel and airline status obsessed. And so I spent, you know, one promo maybe a year ago talking about concierge key on American Airlines and, you know, getting booze from the crowd. The most notable one though, if, if you'd like to go there, Pablo, I'm.

[A]

I feel like I have no choice at this point.

[B]

Is the client call.

[C]

This is where you don't want to be if you're jp, what, what is he going for?

[B]

This is one of the spots I do that people seem to gravitate towards. That came directly from a singular moment in my career. When you're an associate in investment bank, it's long hours, it's all nighters. It's all that kind of stuff that you hear about and read about. It's all true. You do it because you're cocaine. Well, for me, no. But you do that, all that because it's intellectually stimulating. You like the companies with whom you're working. It's above the fold, Wall Street Journal stuff. But most importantly, it's the compensation. And so there's a day in early January when you sit down with your group head who delivers your comp for the year. They say, here's your bonus. And that is the singular day that you, you know, from a compensation perspective are working towards all year with all those long hours. I sit down, this is the moment, this is the moment to get the bonus number. And as we're sitting about to have this conversation, me and the MD in a room, his phone Goes off. Not only does he answer it, he says, yeah, I'm good. No, nothing important. And so I'm sitting there like, this is the most important meeting of my year. And for him, he very casually sloughs me off and says, yeah, and answers the client call, which he should. So my 30 minute meeting becomes like, less than five. And I took that. I'll never forget it. And I love the guy, by the way. He's a mentor. I'm a huge fan of his. So that's the job. When the client calls, you answer. But I took that. And when I got traction with JP Lehman, I put it directly into my matches. So during my match, sometimes a client calls. And if a client calls, I answer.

[C]

He's got a phone call. He legitimately has a phone call. Why?

[B]

Why did the referee not check him for that?

[C]

JP Lehman immensely distracted tonight. Or is he? That's called mixing business and more business. That's multitasking at its best right there.

[A]

I like how you got to turn your real personal trauma from I banking life into. Yeah, Physical trauma for someone else.

[B]

The best art comes from a sense of real despair and tragedy.

[A]

And so when this wrestling scout is coming to you and saying, we need this, we want this, and we will never do this, which feels a bit like another blow to the ego, how does that make sense?

[B]

I never expected to get even a shred of a compliment. You know, I. I was the old guy, am the old guy. I'm not the guy who looks like a wrestler. So the fact that he took time to say, you should be everywhere, that's all I needed. But the addendum to that was, send me your social media. I will blast it out everywhere and get you looks and attention from promoters across the country. And that was the oh moment where for years, for six years, up until that point, this had been operating in the secrets and the shadows and the darkness. And I'd had a private social media account just for fun. And I was ready to push the nuclear button and shut the whole thing down should the wrong people work, you know, social, whatever that didn't understand it and wouldn't appreciate it, find out. So I was ready to just go dark. This would be a turning point. And it took me 24 hours to just, like, wrestle with it. The idea of this being the JP Lehman initial public offering, JP Lehman going public, the whole reason I did this to begin with is you only live once. You better do the stuff you want to do. And since then, I haven't been lying about it. I Certainly haven't been saying no, that's not me. I don't do that. If someone asks, yeah, that's me, you should come to a show. And so it started to gain traction and real footing. But that JP Lehman, you know, ipo, so to speak, was a really difficult decision.

[A]

I still don't understand the math because financially speaking, I assume this is not a money making endeavor for you.

[B]

Not in the least. There is. I could probably make anywhere between 40 and 60 or 80 bucks a show. I often will ask the promoter politely, don't pay me with money, but give me time. So I've got three kids, I've got a wife, you know, social calendar that she sets up. And so if you allow me to come late and leave early, that's all I ask. Now if someone wants to pay me more than that and real money, then certainly we'll talk. Not that, you know, 60 bucks a show is not real money, but I. This is not a lucrative money making endeavor at this point.

[A]

I dare say that you are daring someone to make you give up your day job.

[B]

I would say if the phone rings, I will listen. But most importantly, I think this all works. When both of these things happen, the day job feeds the character. Frankly, the character also impacts the day job. So we often have to go into the offices of private equity firms, CEOs, everything in between founders, and pitch them on our wares. Like, why would you hire me? You've built this business your entire life. This is your baby, this is your life. Why would you hire me to go take you public or sell your company? And in that pitch, in that presentation to you, there is a fairy dust sprinkling of pro wrestling in there. When I do it, what are the three points I want to get across and what are the most catchy ways to deliver those points? And that is pro wrestling. So I think it all works together. But, um, so yeah, I'm open for business.

[A]

The parallel theory to all of this is that everything is pro wrestling could.

[B]

Not be more true.

[A]

The, the, the skill set, the moral hazards, everything, fact, fiction being blurred. All of this feels like the Amer, the ultimate American metaphor, a hundred percent.

[B]

And the, the one thing I would for a, a pro wrestling novice, Pablo, what happens on screen and in the ring is a small fraction of why people are interested in pro wrestling. No one watches pro wrestling saying, oh, that guy punched that other guy, or that gal punched that other gal. That ship has sailed. The equivalent example, I think is if you go to a Broadway show and you see, say Hamilton and you see Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson and George Washington doing their thing on stage. That is part of the show. What pro wrestling has evolved into is that now if you go to Hamilton or you go to a pro wrestling match or watch the show, you know that Lin Manuel Miranda actually has beef with his understudy. That's not part of the show. But you know that, you know, the understudy hit on his girlfriend and then there's all this drama around it. That is not part of the show. That if you, if you think about why people really like wrestling in 2025, when they have all these options, they know it is scripted. It's because of the backstage under drama. That kind of keeps people captivated, that enhances what you see on screen.

[A]

Right. What you're saying is that it's actually great for business if you've actually foreclosed on your opponent's home.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Very good. Your opponents, by the way, just like the, the Mortal Kombat totem pole of your last year, where it's like you're working your way through this system. Who are the, the video game bosses, so to speak, that you're encountering here? Such that, yeah, people can get a sense of what this looks like.

[B]

So I've had some great matches over the last year, one of which was against a guy named Dan the dad, based out of St. Louis. He's exactly what he sounds like. He comes to the ring in jean shorts, a tuck, you know, Dockers, a belt, a tucked in polo white, New Balances. He, you know, glasses and a coffee mug, and he's your attaboy, go get him sport kind of gist. He and I had a phenomenal match last July. It was a ton of fun. There's a guy I want to wrestle named Luigi Primo. He wears a, an apron. He's basically like a pizza. Pizza chef.

[A]

I, I, you got a guest.

[B]

You got it. Yeah. He twirls a pizza while he's wrestling the same way that I do a cell phone.

[A]

I was gonna say either this Luigi charact taking pizzas or about to shoot you in the head.

[B]

He's, he's the former, not the latter. Exactly.

[A]

Noted.

[B]

And so he's on, he's on the bucket list. One of my most recent matches was with a guy who's among the top three, I would say, independent pro wrestlers, you know, not only in the country, but globally, a guy named Effie. And he is, you know, I don't even know how to describe it, but within wrestling and beyond, an LGBTQ icon. He's beloved and he has built himself up and this incredible following. Know he does professional wrestling on an independent level as a full time job. That was the biggest match of my career. He is the current reigning and defending gcw, which if you think about this hierarchy of wrestling promotions across the country, it's WWE and aew. At the top, there's another one called TNA Wrestling that's close behind a couple others. Gcw, Game Changer Wrestling, based out of New Jersey, is the single top of the heap and independent kind of quote, minor leagues as you described it, pro wrestling. And Effie is their champion. And Effie came to Charlotte, put his belt on the line against me. With close to 600 people hanging from the rafters in this brewery that could barely, you know, barely hold that many.

[A]

So the fight poster I'm imagining kind of sells itself.

[B]

Sells itself. You know, LGBTQ icon versus Wall street fat cat. Styles make fights. And that was a clash of styles for sure. I knew something was up or that this was an atypical show when in the second or third match I just hear in the, we're just calling our match in the back and I just hear JP Lehman, the whole crowd. And so I'm like, oh my God, like they're here, they're. They're here for me. And what that did was that shifted the way in which we had to set this match up. So typically I'm the heel, I'm the bad guy. There's a structure and a format for a bad guy versus a good guy. But in this case, we kind of realized in that moment the structure may be flipped and that I may end up being a baby face, which is a good guy. And so we restructured the match to be a bit of, you know, a bit of a mix of me not purely being the heel.

[C]

Folks, the, the electricity in the air cannot be denied. JP Lehman is one of the rising stars of 2024. If not going to be a rising star in 2025, this band has a complete package.

[B]

And so we get in the match, the match goes all around this venue, through the crowd, every which way. The first thing we used was computer keyboards. So JP Lehman's, he's got a variety of kind of signature matches, one of which is the, the stock market street fight. He's got one that he hasn't used yet. But when, you know, when it's time for that next final boss, it's going to be the Hell in Exchange Cell, which is obviously a play on WWE's Hell in a cell.

[A]

But somehow scarier.

[B]

Actually, yeah, I think it's just a modeling exam. An Excel modeling exam. It's probably pretty boring, but this is a stock market street fight. So we went out in the crowd. Somehow, don't ask me how JP Lehman found two keyboards, two computer keyboards. What he did then was he. I don't know if you know about this. He popped the top on the keyboard. And that is where you take the F1 key off of the keyboard.

[C]

Oh, wait, a keyboard keyboard warrior. JP Lehman is here. He's trying to control off the lead Effie here.

[B]

Everyone on Wall street knows this.

[A]

What is that? Why?

[B]

First thing you do when you sit at your desk, first two things you do, you unplug your mouse because no one uses a mouse. And you, you, you know, take the F1 key off of your keyboard.

[A]

I'm totally unfamiliar with this ritual.

[B]

The F1 key is, I believe, the help key. And you move so fast. When you're an analyst and associate, you move so fast with your keystrokes that you'll sometimes inadvertently hit the F1 key, and that stops your progress.

[A]

You're saying the world of banking can be so intense that you must amputate parts of the keyboard so it doesn't get in the way.

[B]

That is correct. So I grabbed my keyboard and again, a Venn diagram of one who appreciated it. I hold it up and I pop the F1 key right off. Not a soul thought that was funny or enjoyed it or got it, but it gave me a chuckle. And we proceed to get into this lightsaber duel with keyboards. And so I hit one, he hits one, we duck one, and he ends it by, you know, popping it over my back. And we move on to the next. The next turned out to be just so happens that JP Lehman had brought his putter and a couple golf balls with him, because you always got to be keeping your swing tight.

[C]

What is that? I think that's a golf club.

[B]

And there's a sequence wherein Effie plants me with a snap, mare, picks up the golf club and the golf ball and putts it, but misses. Heavy. Not an avid golfer, probably an 18 handicap, something like that. So JP Lehman boots him in the gut, gives him a snap mare picks up the putter and the golf ball, and then goes right back at him and putts it right in the hole, so to speak. And so big pop from the crowd. The crowd enjoyed that.

[A]

That's just. No, that's just. That's pure athleticism. Yeah.

[B]

I mean that it doesn't can't that. Yeah. I'm just a specimen from an athletic perspective right there, I think. Shirts off, you know, sweaty, but draining putts. Draining putts. Kicking butts, as. As JP Lehman likes to say. And then we be back in the ring for some garbage can, you know, door action. Place it right on Effie. I go up for my signature top rope. Senton. Miss it, land on the garbage can. That hurts.

[C]

Stock market, street fight, anything goes. F. Oh, my God. One, two, three.

[B]

And then Effy puts me through a door for the 1, 2, 3. Followed by. He gave me a little surprise at the end of the match too.

[A]

What was the surprise?

[B]

He beat me. One, two, three, pin. And he leans over to me, he says, get up, I'm gonna give you a kiss. And we hadn't planned that one out. I was, you know, whatever. It's all show. I'm good with it. My wife, you know, wouldn't give a rip. And he lays a big one on me right in front of 600 people.

[C]

Effie, with that kiss. Oh, my go.

[B]

And it was a fun little, I guess, cherry on top, I guess. Well, I was not ready for it. We didn't script it, we didn't call it beforehand, but he planted one all me. Yeah. Right there in the ring.

[A]

Didn't have access to the help key in that scenario.

[B]

No, that would have been helpful. But, you know, such is life. You live and you learn. You roll with it.

[A]

That is. You know what. That's what progress looks like.

[B]

That is. That is indeed exactly.

[A]

What I love about this, is how hyper specific these references are that are teaching me something about finance. Finance.

[B]

Finance. Yeah, It's.

[A]

It's told by various bankers that I have been mispronouncing finance finance, which is a key distinction from finance, which is for poor people.

[B]

Your word's not mine. But finance is.

[A]

J.P. lehman.

[B]

Yeah. And then EBITDA. I mean, the. A refined pallet calls it EBITDA.

[A]

EBITDA.

[B]

EBIT DA.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's how you know, that's how you know your old school kind of ex. Lehman is Ebit da. Ebit da is a little, you know, doesn't really roll off the tongue the way IA does.

[A]

Right. It. It's. People say croissant.

[B]

Exactly. Not croissant. How is that?

[A]

Yeah, no, look, the old money dripping off of your vocal cords.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

I love. I just love that I'm learning as much about finance. Finance.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

As I am about wrestling these two subcultures that seem like they are not, well, as Per your thesis. Not at all overlapping. Except for you.

[B]

They're not. Except for me. But recently it started to shift. And the reason I say that is yesterday, walking down Park Avenue between 52nd and 53rd, out of nowhere, I had two guys, and I saw it in their eyes from a block away. And they walk up and they say, are you the wrestler? That was a little bit of a oh, man kind of moment. And then there have been several airport. And this is. This is all as new and weird to me as. So this is not like a pat on the back. I'm not ready for this.

[A]

The stock chart, though.

[B]

Oh, it's up and to the right.

[A]

Yeah. We're talking hockey stick.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

But wait, wait, wait. Just. How. What's your reaction? How do you. You process this in such a way? Do you. How do you deal with people who now are stopping you in the. In the daytime?

[B]

I deal with it the same way I typically deal with fans and spectators after the show, which is my normal bet, which is the JP Lehman facade goes away. Unless they want it. Unless they give me a phone and say, call my brother and go off, do a JP Lehman spiel on him. I'm, you know, I'm just happy to meet them, love to see them. I'm a little bit put off when it's on Park Avenue in New York. I'm not ready for that.

[A]

What's the airport like? What was that like?

[B]

You know, I ran into someone who. I don't know who, you know, follows. My social media has been to a couple matches and on an airplane from New York back to Charlotte. And the unfortunate thing was, he was sitting in first class.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And I was marching back to coach that. Yeah. So a little part of JP Lehman died on that day.

[A]

Yeah. I can only imagine, like, to. To. To know that your medallion status has been outranked.

[B]

It hurts. And that. That was a painful lesson, a painful day. But, you know, I am actively traveling as much as possible to get that coner key status back and live the gimmick, so to speak.

[A]

Are you ready? I mean, truly, the call that comes or the meeting that you're called into where someone swings around their monitor and it's you reading the newspaper on a turnbuckle shirtless, or staring into the camera on a pile of Legos, or sitting on top of a garbage can splayed out, or kissing a dude at the end of a match. Do you know what you're gonna say?

[B]

The whole way this has evolved, I think has put me in a position now where I'm comfortable with it. I've gotten enough validation externally from people who've come up to me and this is, I don't want to go too hokey or too corny, but people have come up and been like, man, you know, I had one guy, a guy I went to college with, he was like, I've got four kids. He's like, I got this job I hate. He was like, you know, you're living. He's like, this is awesome. And so for me, it's now shifted from this weird kind of shameful box into this real sense of identity and pride where, yes, I could certainly be a 40 year old finance professional for whom my only passions are golf and watching the stock market. But I'm really proud that my wife has too. And I have allowed myself to really chase this thing down. And that for me is the validating point of it. That if someone pulls it up and says, look at this, you idiot, or what are you doing? I'm not as upset about that anymore because I've had just too many people say, this is cool, this is awesome.

[C]

This is.

[B]

This is inspiring is too strong a word. But this is interesting.

[A]

Well, I think sometimes the highest compliment in finance, as well as a more artistic creative pursuit, is to be jealousy inducing.

[B]

What I think is probably more likely is that. And what I would be more, you know, proud of is if someone leaves a show and say, I want to play guitar or I want to pick up an easel and a canvas and I want to paint or I want to learn piano. These are the things I've always wanted to do. I'm convinced everyone has a quirk like this. This is a weird quirk and you either suppress it or you embrace it. And I feel like. And this is, I've thought this for forever. All too often, as we get older and get jobs and get families and get responsibilities, we suppress it and just put it out of our mind. And so I'm hopeful that other people will embrace it as well. I had a business school, I went to, you know, Duke undergrad, Northwestern for business school. And my business school roommate, one day she was like, I wish I loved anything as much as you love pro wrestling. Which is an absolute, like, not a compliment, you know, like, that is a weird thing to tell a 28, 30 year old grown man in, in getting his MBA. But it definitely resonated with me. I was like, everyone has one of these things. They just need to find it and foster it and cultivate it and let it bloom.

[A]

My Goal here is for someone to tell me, I wish I loved anything as much as you loved. Listening to someone tell you that they got told that they wish that they loved anything as much as you love wrestling.

[B]

Well said, Pablo. Very well said.

[A]

The videos of you that I have seen, that I've enjoyed, that I have been wincing at at various points, it is very different from you. I've now sat across from you for quite a while, and I found you, despite having crashed the American economy, to be a delight. And I just wonder when I'm gonna get to meet JP Lehman. Actually.

[B]

You want. You want to meet JP Lehman?

[A]

I. I mean, I thought that's what was happening here when I walked in.

[B]

So you want to meet JP Lehman?

[A]

If we could. If we could.

[B]

You want to be JP Lehman? You expect JP Lehman to show up here for free? Pablo Torre. JP Lehman doesn't get out of bed. JP Lehman doesn't catch a cold for less than a $4 million fee. You think I'm a circus monkey that's just gonna dance for you? What do I look like? Larsa? Pippin? Do I look like Jordan Hudson? Okay, am I some quasi celebrity that you're gonna latch onto for pseudo relevance? Okay, Pablo Torre, I know you. I know your type. You are a barnacle on the hull of the passing frigate that is mainstream sports culture. And trust me, Pablo, I don't use your name and mainstream in the same breath lightly. You barely deserve that, sir. You are a leech. You are an ab. Solute leech. Okay? Did you know that? So you're. Hold on a second.

[A]

The eye contact is disconcerting.

[B]

Oh, no, I gotta take this. I'm sorry. Can't. You mind if I take this? Thanks. Bradford. Yeah, brother. Hey, it's jp. Yeah, absolutely. No, no, I'm not busy right now. Look, so, capital markets are frothy, dry powder and private equities are robust. My team has 100 bandwidth. So let's get you a deal. And find me a fee.

[A]

This feels very insane.

[B]

All right? Racket club tonight, maybe Steam sauna shower, the tribathlon Martini afterwards. All right? Tell Chelsea and the kids I said hello, all right? Yeah. Let me clean up some trash. Ciao.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You're a leech, Pablo. Okay, you hear me? You are an absolute leech. Look at me. I am client facing, I am revenue generating, I am a fee machine, and I will knock that silver spoon out of your mouth and send you back to that ivory tower faster than you can spell Ebida adjustment. Unless you forgot Pablo My name is JP Lehman. I am the Wall street fat cat. I am the BSD of nyc. I am too big to fail. And you and your stupid little show can take that to the bank.

[A]

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production and I'll talk to you next time.