Podcast Summary

Podcast: Pablo Torre Finds Out
Episode: This Was Goth Tennis: Confessions of a Teenage Champion (PTFO Vault)
Date: August 29, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Guest/Correspondent: Mickey Dujay

Episode Overview

This episode is a Halloween-season deep-dive “talkumentary” featuring Pablo Torre and artist/filmmaker Mickey Dujay. Mickey confesses, for the first time publicly, the story of his extraordinary, macabre high school tennis career—a fusion of teenage rebellion, gothic subculture, emotional survival, and sportsmanship in 1990s suburban Detroit. The conversation explores how Mickey’s goth identity, challenging home life, and relationship with a mysterious coach converged into the strangest (and perhaps most intimidating) tennis persona imaginable.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene – Goths in Suburban Detroit

• Mickey’s upbringing: Grew up in Warren, MI—a bleak, overcast, often gothic-feeling suburb of Detroit.
• His early personality: Tall, gaunt, introverted, and an outsider—described himself as “cartoonishly skeletal, withdrawn” ([10:37]).
• Home life: Endured significant abuse from his father, resulting in deep-seated anger, isolation, and need for escape ([11:07], [12:05]).

2. Discovery and Codification of High School Goth Subculture

• Art room as sanctuary: Found acceptance among fellow oddball goths in high school, especially the “gay goths” led by Dale, a charismatic musician ([13:18–14:02]).
• Taxonomy of goths:  
  • Military goths: Faux-military attire, inspired by post-Misfits Glenn Danzig ([15:02])
  • Victorian goths: Sartorial, velvet, ruffles, outfits reminiscent of Gary Oldman in “Dracula” ([15:25–16:08])
  • Fairy goths: Elven ears, wings—“whimsical, but definitely still dark” ([16:09–16:47])
• Parental reaction: Mickey’s parents were unsettled by his transformation—dark clothes, dyed hair, candle-lit “satanic” altar in his bedroom ([17:15]).

Quote:
“All of the goths, this wide taxonomy that I described to you, we were all really sensitive people…artistic people who loved paintings and poetry…It was a real loving subculture…the sense of humor, the warmth, that’s what’s overlooked.”
— Mickey ([18:22–19:00])

3. Tennis Team as an Unlikely Refuge

• Larry Hart, the Coach: An eccentric, famously accepting father figure for a ragtag mix of students ([19:24–21:07]).
  • Unkempt, perpetually in tracksuits, rarely revealed his past, but had an unexpected depth (including attending Sisters of Mercy concerts—Mickey’s favorite goth band! ([23:39–25:38])).
• Tennis as therapy: For Mickey, relentless tennis practice became a crucible to channel his pain—“tolerating pain became my superpower” ([27:37–31:05]).

4. Invention of the “Goth Tennis” Persona

• Performance art on the court: Mickey would walk out in chains, jewelry, black hair dye; slowly remove these items at the net, ritualistically “de-jeweling” before play ([05:36], [35:25]).
• Playing style: Manic defense—rallies of hundreds of shots, draining opponents’ willpower, aiming to win matches by never making unforced errors or hitting winners, forcing adversaries to “lose to themselves” ([27:37–31:05]).

Quote:
“I wanted my opponents to be so demoralized by my playing style that they’d utterly unravel in front of me…haunted by the knowledge that they’d actually played and lost a match against themselves.”
— Mickey ([31:05])

• Psyche-warfare: Embraced being underestimated, relished the stares, and the discomfort his appearance and play caused in conventional sports circles ([33:32–34:12]; memorable story of an opponent bloodied by frustration ([34:17–34:55])).

5. Climax – The Regional Tournament & Epiphany

• David vs. Goliath: Warren Mott (Mickey’s team) faces prep power Grosse Pointe North for a spot at States ([37:14–38:10]).
• Mickey wins, but the opposing player (Andrew) displays immense sportsmanship, which leads Mickey to a crisis of conscience—he’d projected prejudices onto others, only to be disarmed by their kindness ([38:49–40:06]).

6. Triumph and Immediate Reversal at States

• The team makes States for the first time, only to be “ceremonially slaughtered” ([42:03–43:16]).
• Mickey and teammates break the code: Busted by coach Larry for partying (weed, clove cigarettes) at the hotel; all are kicked off the team, shattering Mickey’s hard-won trust ([43:16–45:19]).

Quote:
“It is one thing to fuck up, it is another thing to genuinely disappoint someone you wanted to be proud of you.”
— Pablo ([45:19])

7. Redemption, Growth, and Reflection

• Mickey’s private apology: Finds Larry post-season, offers a sincere, regretful apology not seeking reinstatement—Larry responds, “So, like, are we gonna hit some balls or…” ([47:50–48:41]).
• Yearbook epilogue:
  • Dale the goth bandleader now works at a candy store, sporting a massive back tattoo designed by Mickey; has changed his name ([50:30–51:51]).
  • Larry continued coaching; Mickey eventually returns to tennis, is reinstated, and wins the “double bagel” season record ([53:00–54:07]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Goth Identity & Ostracism:
  • “I was emaciated, thin. I didn’t really talk much…I had almost like a translucent skin.” — Mickey ([10:37])
  • “If I could have emerged from a coffin next to the court, I would’ve done that.” — Mickey ([35:35])
• On Coach Larry's Eccentric Permission:
  • “Larry accepted anyone who wanted to play tennis…a motley crew, lost souls, nerdy kids, religious kids, people with tough home lives.” — Mickey ([21:34])
  • “Larry’s eyes lit up. He said, Oh yeah man, I love Sisters of Mercy…It was really out of left field.” ([24:09])
• On Sport as Emotional Outlet:
  • “Tolerating pain had become my superpower.” — Mickey ([30:45])
  • “The perverse scoreline I dreamt of was to lose zero games, commit zero errors, and hit zero winners.” ([31:00])
• On Facing and Earning Empathy:
  • “The shame that I felt…came from how I realized that so much of this twisted strategy…was about how I was provoking other people to judge me, while all I was really doing was projecting onto the type of person he was.” — Mickey ([39:55])
• Coach’s Final Gift:
  • “A coach can never make a great player of a youngster who isn’t potentially great. But a coach can make a great competitor out of any child…” — Read by Mickey from Coach Larry ([54:23])
• On Passing Down Lessons:
  • “I like to think that as a dad, I allow my kids to be who they are…So much of that comes from Larry and the code.” — Mickey ([56:34])

Important Segment Timestamps

• [04:47] — Mickey explains why the story is important to him, coming out with it after 27 years.
• [05:36–07:49] — Describes his gothic “performance art” approach to tennis matches in vivid, poetic prose.
• [10:37–11:07] — Mickey reflects on his appearance, home life, and the pain fueling him.
• [13:18–16:47] — In-depth description of goth subgroups and their styles.
• [19:24–21:07] — Introduction of Coach Larry Hart.
• [23:39–25:38] — Larry’s goth-ish past revealed; emotional connection made.
• [27:37–31:05] — Mickey rebuilds his game; channeling pain into tennis, mastering mental warfare.
• [34:17–34:55] — Memorable moment of an opponent literally bleeding from frustration.
• [38:49–40:06] — The match that changes Mickey’s self-perception and reveals his judgments about others.
• [43:16–45:19] — The party at states, heartbreak after being caught and dismissed by Larry.
• [47:50–48:41] — Redemption: Mickey’s apology and Larry’s quietly forgiving response.
• [54:23–55:14] — Coach Larry’s final words, read aloud at graduation.
• [56:34–56:59] — Legacy: Mickey as a father, passing on Larry’s ethos.

Language & Tone

The episode blends Pablo’s inquisitive, empathetic narration with Mickey’s poetic, self-deprecating honesty. The tone oscillates between humor (in discussing goth taxonomy and performance art), darkness (abuse, alienation), and profound warmth—ultimately spotlighting unlikely kinship, redemption, and the power a good mentor can have on a lost kid.

Bottom Line

This episode is a haunting yet moving exploration of identity, pain, transformation, and generosity. From the gothic courts of suburban Detroit to the lessons that endure in adulthood, Mickey Dujay’s confessions—as shepherded by Pablo Torre—invite listeners to reconsider how subcultures, sports, and mentors can quietly save lives and shape futures.