Uncle Dennis, Ballmer's $50 Million Sprint and the Side Deal That Wouldn't Die: Kawhi-Gate, Part VIII

Summary

Pablo Torre Finds Out — "Uncle Dennis, Ballmer's $50 Million Sprint and the Side Deal That Wouldn't Die: Kawhi-Gate, Part VIII" (February 10, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In this investigative "talkumentary," Pablo Torre dives deep into the web of secret deals, lawsuits, league investigations, and behind-the-scenes drama surrounding the Los Angeles Clippers, their owner Steve Ballmer, and superstar Kawhi Leonard. The focus is on how Ballmer’s $50 million investment in Aspiration, an eco-fintech company, became entangled with salary cap circumvention, hidden endorsement deals, and complicated business maneuvers involving Uncle Dennis (Kawhi's uncle/manager) and a series of lawsuits. Torre, joined by Amin Elhassan and David Sampson, unearths new documents, emails, and legal filings while providing context, humor, and memorable soundbites.

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Key Themes & Insights

1. The All-Star Weekend’s Shadow: Aspiration, Ballmer, and Exposed Secrets ([01:50] - [04:45])

• LA Clippers are hosting All-Star Weekend with owner Steve Ballmer aiming to spotlight his new arena.
• The "aspiration scandal" — Ballmer’s $50M investment in Aspiration and a secret $48M no-show endorsement to Kawhi — is central.
• Kawhi was left off the All-Star roster (allegedly as coach retribution for the scandal), but Adam Silver added him back per league rules, intensifying the drama.
• Pablo: “The focus should be Steve Ballmer and Kawhi Leonard. Now that's the gift that we have been given.” [04:45]

2. The Side Deals & Their Rabbit Holes ([05:50] - [07:37])

• Multiple side deals between Clippers, Ballmer, and Kawhi's camp raise questions of league rule breaches.
• Former Clippers GM Michael Winger, exasperated, once asked: "How many side deals have we made with Kawhi?" ([05:56])
• Clippers president Lawrence Frank, when questioned by ESPN’s Ramona Shelburne, dodges direct answers about "extra benefits" requested by Uncle Dennis — providing a memorable PR tap-dance.
• Amin: "To me, saying I know the rules says nothing about your desire to adhere to the rules." ([08:31])

3. Civil Suit: Investors Call Out Ballmer ([09:41] - [12:54])

• 11 Aspiration investors sue, naming Ballmer as complicit with founder Joe Sandberg in the fraudulent cover-up.
• Ballmer’s defense: They dismiss claims as coming from a “sports podcast” repeatedly—humorously lampooned by the hosts as “the P-word.” ([12:15]; [12:26]; [12:54])
• Asserting Ballmer’s innocence, they insist: “Ballmer’s trust in aspiration was sorely misplaced” due to thorough due diligence. ([13:53])
• Yet, rapid review and sign-off on contracts indicate a comically rushed process.

4. The $50M Rush: Ballmer’s (In)Due Diligence ([14:38] - [26:03])

• Internal emails reveal the $50M investment closed within 11 days over Labor Day 2021—a timeline one Aspiration insider calls “insane and completely unheard of.” ([22:38])
• Ballmer’s lawyer: “We're basically good. Just fix the one thing that we saw because we got this thing yesterday.” ([21:21])
• Sampson incredulous: "You can't have a thorough negotiation of a purchase agreement or a subscription agreement that quickly. I don't care who you're staffing it with.” ([20:10])
• The underlying motivation: Aspiration was broke and needed Ballmer's money urgently. ([18:10])

5. Fake Partners, Real Trouble ([24:11] - [25:42])

• Aspiration’s client list contained shell companies or businesses that couldn’t possibly match their supposed commitments—something vetting could have revealed.
• Source: “All of that would have been very easy to look at by doing a quick Secretary of State Google search." ([24:11])

6. The Motives: More Than Just Side Deals ([27:07] - [29:41])

• Ballmer's investment also aligned with aspirations to gain a $300M naming rights deal for the Clippers’ arena, as revealed in internal emails.
• David Sampson reads aloud: “Redacted knows Ballmer was partly motivated by the Clippers sponsorship deal.” ([29:41])
• Lawsuit contends Ballmer lost his investment; the Clippers state they terminated their Aspiration relationship during the 2022–23 season—a timeline the reporting disproves.

7. Timeline Manipulation & Termination Fictions ([30:18] - [33:00])

• Social media evidence and Aspiration sources show the sponsorship and side deals lingered beyond the official narrative.
• Amin draws a Terminator analogy: “This deal... was hard to terminate. It was not gonna die.” ([33:00])

8. Tampering, Trainers, & Team Kawhi’s Demands ([39:18] - [48:59])

• Lawsuit from Kawhi’s personal trainer, Randy Shelton, alleges the Clippers tampered with Leonard through secret recruitment efforts years before free agency.
• Messages show the Clippers/designees offering jobs and seeking medical info from Shelton. Amin: “That, I'm told, was the first seeds... of like, wait a second, if they love me like they tell me they love me, why aren't they taking care of me immediately?” ([43:49])
• David: “This is tampering.” ([46:51])

9. Full Court Press: Everybody Wants Kawhi ([50:08] - [57:56])

• Lawsuits from Johnny Wilkes (“The Plug”) show deep connections and promises between Clippers execs—including Jerry West—and Kawhi’s camp.
• Voicemail from Jerry West: “I just find it hard to believe that he would want to go to that show [the Lakers] where he would not even be... the face of the franchise, that's for sure.” ([55:39])

10. The LLC Maze: Hiding the Money ([51:13] - [76:06])

• The proliferation of mysterious “KL2” LLCs, their dormancy, and sudden revivals correspond suspiciously with contract, endorsement and ownership activity.
• Key moment: In 2021, Randy Shelton's Clippers contract stipulates legal notices to Uncle Dennis, who demanded a 10% kickback of Shelton’s salary—a method to funnel money off the books. ([65:05]; [66:01])
• Pablo: “Clippers were not only totally aware of this arrangement, allegedly they agreed to this practice as a way of getting more money to Uncle Dennis directly.” ([66:41])

11. Suspicious Extensions & Executive "Hush Money" ([77:45] - [80:03])

• Despite being under investigation and lawsuits, Lawrence Frank receives a multi-year extension as Clippers President; NBA insiders joke it’s “Ballmer hush money.” ([79:46])
• Amin: “If you're being sued and... you didn't know any of this... the guy who's responsible... give him a couple more years just to make sure. Maybe he had a plan here.” ([79:13])

12. Whistleblowers and Federal Investigation ([80:55] - [83:58])

• Federal probe into Aspiration began after an internal whistleblower contacted authorities, which led to multi-agency legal actions and criminal charges against Joe Sandberg.
• Pablo: “Did [the whistleblower] explicitly mention Steve Ballmer and NBA salary cap circumvention to the government? That's a good ass question because that... would feel like a smoking gun.” ([83:22])

13. The Echo of “We Know the Rules…” ([84:01])

• Episode ends by circling back to Team Ballmer/Clippers' repeated insistence: “We know the rules... we all know the rules.”—ironically highlighting the episode’s central contradiction.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Michael Winger (Clippers GM, quoted): "How many side deals have we made with Kawhi?" ([05:56])
• Pablo Torre (on Ballmer's legal defense): "If I made you drink every time Team Ballmer wrote the word podcast, you would die." ([11:57])
• Amin (after Ballmer’s denial): "To me, saying I know the rules says nothing about your desire to adhere to the rules." ([08:31])
• Aspiration Insider: "Some of the businesses in 2021 that were signed up as corporate businesses were not real businesses. They were shell companies... All of that would have been very easy to look at by doing a quick Secretary of State Google search." ([24:11])
• David Sampson (on rushed due diligence): "You can't have a thorough negotiation of a purchase agreement... that quickly. I don't care who you're staffing it with." ([20:10])
• Ballmer (on getting scammed): "Should I have sniffed it out? Maybe. I feel embarrassed and kind of silly that I didn’t sniff it out. But I didn’t." ([23:16])
• Amin (on tampering): "I think we can agree that if this occurred, kind of goes far above and beyond going on Jimmy Kimmel and saying, ‘I'd love to have a great player on my team.’" ([47:36])
• Jerry West (voicemail): "I just find it hard to believe that he would want to go to that show where he would not even be... the face of the franchise, that's for sure." ([55:39])
• Amin and Pablo (Terminator callbacks): "This deal... was hard to terminate. It was not gonna die." ([33:00]); "Hasta la vista, baby." ([61:49]; [71:48])
• Amin (on hush money): "Maybe he had a plan here. If I knew, and I'm not gonna say hush money. Well, hush." ([79:35])
• Pablo: "If this aspiration whistleblower who tipped over that first domino of a federal criminal investigation exists, did they explicitly mention Steve Ballmer and NBA salary cap circumvention to the government?" ([83:22])
• David Sampson, echoing the team mantra: "We all know the rules." ([83:59])

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Timeline of Major Events (Timestamps)

| Time | Event / Discussion | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | [01:50] | All-Star at Intuit Dome, focus on Ballmer's showcase and the aspiration scandal | | [04:45] | Kawhi’s All-Star snub and Adam Silver’s intervention | | [05:50] | Discovery of multiple “side deals” with Kawhi | | [07:37] | PR evasions by Lawrence Frank on Uncle Dennis' demands | | [09:41] | Lawsuit: Investors vs. Ballmer, lawsuit’s allegations and Ballmer’s defense | | [13:53] | “Thorough due diligence” claim analyzed | | [17:12] | Revealing emails: Ballmer’s team rushes a $50M investment | | [22:38] | Aspiration insider on never seeing a deal of that size move so fast | | [24:11] | Phony shell companies as “clients” | | [29:34] | Emails confirm Ballmer motivated by sponsorship deals | | [30:18] | Timeline discrepancies: When was Aspiration really terminated? | | [51:13] | The first KL2 LLC set up for hiding off-books payments | | [63:28] | Randy Shelton’s employment contract with legal notices to Uncle Dennis | | [65:45] | 10% “kickback” reveals mechanism for untraceable payments | | [77:45] | Lawrence Frank’s “hush money” extension amidst investigation | | [80:55] | The importance of federal whistleblowers in the unfolding criminal investigation | | [83:22] | Will the government link Ballmer directly to salary cap circumvention? | | [84:01] | The episode closes with the now-ironic “We all know the rules” mantra |

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Structural Takeaways

• Investigative Reporting as Entertainment: Pablo’s multi-episode investigation leverages humor, pop culture references (Terminator, Avatar), and role-playing to reveal facts while lampooning the PR and legal obfuscation (“the P-word,” drinking game).
• Document Trail: The episode is driven by an ongoing, dramatic unveiling of emails, contracts, LLC registrations, legal filings, and lawsuits.
• Central Irony: The repeated, almost comical insistence “We all know the rules” anchors the show’s theme: knowing and following are not the same.
• Big Open Questions: The future hinges on whistleblower testimony, federal investigations, and whether the NBA will ultimately act on the mountain of circumstantial and documentary evidence.

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Who Should Listen

This episode is a must-listen for anyone following the NBA's off-court intrigue, sports lawyers, journalists, or anyone fascinated by the intersection of power, money, sports, and subterfuge. It's a masterclass in longform sports reporting—delivered in Pablo Torre's signature sharp, irreverent, and incisive style.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[Johnny Wilkes]

I find it hard to believe that he would want to go to that show where he would not even be when he'd get his name in the paper. And he wouldn't be the face of the franchise, that's for sure.

[Pablo Torre]

Right after this ad, Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Hey, everybody, I'm Naomi Ekparigan. And I'm Andy Beckerman. We're a real life couple and a real life couple of comedians, and we're the hosts of the podcast Couples Therapy. We're the only comedy relationship podcast ever. Yeah, I said it. And we're so good. We've been written up in both the New York Times and we made Grindr's list of top podcasts. Yes, we're giving you that high, low appeal trust on the show. We talk to guests like Bob the Drag Queen, Angelica Ross, Bowen Yang, Janelle James, Danny Pudi, Darcy Carden, Paul F. Tompkins, and more. All about love, mental health, and everything in between. And we answer your relationship questions. We are two unlicensed comedians just trying to help you out. So open your hearts, loosen your butts, because we got a lot of laughs and a lot of real talk just for you. Download Couples Therapy wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Foreign. David has his glasses atop a thick folder which I do not want you to touch. Two Seas Amin. We have so much to get to. I just want to jump into it. What is happening this weekend? Explain for the people what is going on.

[Amin]

Finally, we are descending upon the Intuit Dome in Los Angeles. Excuse me. Englewood, California, the home of the Los Angeles Clippers. For allstar weekend, I'll be there.

[David Sampson]

Englewood and Miami Gardens. It's LA and it's Miami.

[Amin]

Well, crazy, because Inglewood is closer to lax. Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

We didn't come here to talk about the geographic distinctions between suburbs of what? Why are you taking out your glasses right now?

[David Sampson]

I want to tell you. What happened to me is I had to go to 2.0 and I was asked by the doctor, are you reading? More like, is anything going on that is causing your eyes to disintegrate? And I said, I do this thing with Pablo where he has me reading documents on the spot. And I. I have to be clear. He's like, 2.0. So these are brand new.

[Pablo Torre]

Part eight of this series has required yet even more medically necessary bifocals for David Sampson. I mean, Al Hasan, the party that you're going to. Okay. I've been waiting for this party for like a year now.

[Amin]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And I'm not exaggerating. I started reporting the story of aspiration in February 2025, a year ago this month. It's the party that first off, Adam Silver, I am told, never seriously considered relocating, even though it turns everyone's focus to the host to the emcee of this event, Steve Ballmer, the richest owner in sports who will personally welcome everybody in to his gleaming arena. Because an All Star Game. David, as someone who's hosted an All Star game before is also what it.

[David Sampson]

Is an opportunity to showcase to the world your ballpark, your operation. And it is a great vanity play that the NBA, there are teams that don't necessarily fight over it all the time. And mlb, everyone wants to host it. And you have to answer a huge bid document that's hundreds of pages long. And it is really your chance that in the playoffs are the two opportunities for you to shine as an organization.

[Pablo Torre]

And the TV show. The Clippers have been. This season has been amazing.

[Amin]

Pablo, we talked about this on Basketball Illuminati. We had Law Murray on who covers the Clippers for the Athletic. We said, you've already gone through four seasons. Season one, the aspiration stuff. Season two, Chris Paul, it's all your fault. Season three, the team is awful. Season four, the team is a lot better now. And now Season five, James Harden got traded to Cleveland.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, and also Kawhi Leonard has been playing like an mvp. He got left off the All Star roster by the coaches in part, I am told because of how egregious season one was. The aspiration scandal. I have been told this by head coaches in the NBA. Also, ESPN's Brian Winhurst basically went on TV and said as much. And then the commissioner, Adam Silver personally added Kawhi Len to the roster in keeping with league rules. But just again, for the, for the show is just kind of perfect that Kawhi is going to be there. After all, Adam Silver is going to be there. Steve Ballmer is going to be there.

[Amin]

There's a funny part to this where everyone's like, oh, Adam Silver's looking out for Kawhi Leonard by putting him on this team. Isn't there another side of that corner? Oh, no. Now I got to go answer questions. I got to do the media day thing. I got to be asked questions about aspiration.

[Pablo Torre]

And what people will ask about, what anyone will say about aspiration during this momentous All Star weekend is in part why we're here and why David's eyes are degrading. Because the focus should be Steve Ballmer and Kawhi Leonard. Now that's the gift that we have been given. We've been given the gift of re examining the 150 billion dollar man who has, according to our reporting, made a mockery of the Cardinal league rules that cap how much NBA owners can spend to win as well as you know, the superstar who received not only a secret $48 million no show endorsement deal, but also, we're just going to jump into this right now, I am told even more. Okay, so Ballmer, I mean did not merely greenlight the side deal with aspiration in 2021, according to multiple former Clippers employees I've talked to in the last few months. At one point a completely exasperated Michael Winger, who was the Clippers general manager and collective bargaining rules expert from 2017 to 2023, said aloud in the office upon discovering yet another hidden arrangement with Kawhi and his uncle Dennis, this quote amin, which is the first piece of paper in your folder.

[Amin]

Ooh, this one is in big font. This should have been read by you without glasses.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, you don't know.

[David Sampson]

Oh, that is big.

[Amin]

All right, quote, how many side deals have we made with Kwai?

[Pablo Torre]

That is a large font.

[Amin]

That's huge.

[Pablo Torre]

I asked Michael Winger, who is now the president of basketball operations for the Washington Wizards, who's had a busy trade deadline himself, if you wanted to comment on this quote on the scene I'm describing and he politely declined. And as you guys know, we continue to get ghosted in general on all our requests for comment to uncle Dennis Robertson and to Kawhi's actual registered agent Mitch Frankel.

[David Sampson]

Don't you have to have responded once to then ghost if they've never spoken to you at all, is it still ghosting?

[Amin]

That's ghosting.

[Pablo Torre]

But the Michael Winger side deal quote, I mean reminds me of Michael Winger's boss and Steve Ballmer's right hand man, Clippers president of basketball Lawrence Frank. This was September Clippers media day. And what Ramona Shelburne from ESPN who later had the microphone taken from her by Clippers PR dared to ask was this.

[David Sampson]

Has Dennis Robertson, Kawhi's uncle, ever asked for any extra benefits that wouldn't be allowable under the NBA seller cap directly to you? There's been a lot coming about his asks. Yeah, look, Dennis Knows the rules. Kawhi knows the rules. Mitch Frankel knows the rules, and we know the rules. Is that a yes or another yes? We all know the rules. Classic.

[Amin]

Can I ask you a question? Would he have been better off saying no comment or next question?

[David Sampson]

I'm not going to address it because sounds like a prize fool there.

[Amin]

That's, that's terrible. Yeah, that's. That's him basically saying yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, what you didn't hear was no. Right. So by the powers of deduction, you might think the answer is, is yes.

[David Sampson]

Don't say that, because when you plead the Fifth Amendment, that does not mean you're guilty.

[Amin]

He didn't plead the Fifth Amendment. He answered a different question that wasn't asked.

[David Sampson]

But that's what you're taught in PR101, right? If you don't want to answer the question asked, you never have to. Is it something else?

[Amin]

But is it not better to just say no comment or next question rather than to do that, do the playful, oh, I'll ask. Answer a question.

[David Sampson]

Well, what he did was absurd. The way to answer that question is much easier. Say, I can't speak to anything other than the Los Angeles Clippers were never engaged in any activity that is outside the rules. And if that's not true, then you say, there is no way I can address this. It's a pending investigation or ongoing.

[Pablo Torre]

But if Lawrence Frank was saying anything, right, he's basically saying, look, Uncle Dennis may have been asking for some wild, but we know the rules and he knows the rules. And we, as the people asserting our knowledge of the rules, would never participate in rule breaking.

[Amin]

Or I know the rules and I know how to skirt the rules. To me, saying I know the rules says nothing about your desire to adhere to the rules.

[Pablo Torre]

It does bring me though to something else I have not really mentioned on the show yet, which is that Steve Ballmer didn't just face an NBA investigation that fined him for offering a side deal with the team sponsor Lexus, in this case to DeAndre Jordan in 2015. Ballmer, at the time, his quote was any circumvention was inadvertent. And Ballmer also isn't just facing this current NBA investigation we've been talking about into the nearly $50 million side deal that another team sponsor aspiration, of course, had with Kawhi. Maybe more worryingly and far less controllably, Steve Ballmer is also dealing with the thing at the top of the folders in front of both of you, because what you're going to Find. Here is a civil lawsuit filed by 11 aspiration investors, which got amended to name Steve Ballmer as a defendant alongside Aspiration co founder Joe Sandberg, who already has pled guilty to two counts of wire fraud last fall. And gentlemen, what do these 11 investors allege about Ballmer's support of Aspiration, which has since been rebranded, incidentally, as Katona?

[David Sampson]

Sandberg and Ballmer work together to make Aspiration appear to be a successful company backed by Ballmer, who is one of the wealthiest people in the world, worth over $150 billion. With Ballmer's knowledge, support and assistance, Sandberg and Ballmer promoted Aspiration to lend legitimacy to aspirations, operations, and Ballmer publicly endorsed Aspiration. This enticed investors, like plaintiffs to entrust in and keep their capital in Aspiration and helped hide the rampant fraud occurring at the company. It also served Ballmer's interest in getting extra money to Leonard so he could circumvent the salary cap, beat out the competition, and resign his team's superstar player.

[Amin]

Plaintiffs would not have invested and slash or kept their investment in Aspiration if Ballmer and Sandberg had disclosed the true nature of Ballmer's investment. Ballmer thus supported and participated in Sandberg's fraud.

[Pablo Torre]

I should be clear that I am not sure if this lawsuit, which escalates Ballmer's role in this story to allegedly aiding and abetting fraud, is going to be successful. Right? I didn't write the complaint, and my sources, as you guys know, at Aspiration and the Clippers now have focused on Ballmer allegedly and knowingly breaking the rules of the NBA and not federal law. But the reason I'm bringing up all of this here is because while Ballmer will presumably, David, say nothing about any of this at all Star Weekend, he did something fascinating just last month because in an attempt to have this whole lawsuit dismissed and thereby preempt discovery, which would be Christmas for us here at Pablo Torre. God, the number of folders on this desk. What Ballmer's attorneys finally did was write down a defense against PTFO's reporting. This was as part of their answer to the investors amended complaint. And if I made you drink every time Team Ballmer wrote the word podcast, you would die.

[Amin]

Let's see it. I got my water here, and I will take a sip every time I hear the word podcast.

[David Sampson]

Plaintiff's first amended complaint adds Stephen Ballmer as a defendant based on sensational and patently false assertions made in a sports podcast.

[Pablo Torre]

Drink.

[Amin]

Ballmer and the Clippers have denied all allegations in that podcast drink and are cooperating in an ongoing NBA investigation.

[David Sampson]

While conjecture and unsupported assumptions may be appropriate in the world of Tory's podcast drink, they have no place in a sworn legal pleading Plaintiff's claims against the.

[Amin]

Ballmer defendants are premised on the bogus theory based entirely on speculation in a podcast. Yeah, that Ballmer and Sandberg entered into a, quote, corrupt deal, unquote.

[Pablo Torre]

So they, of course never mentioned the two thorough witnesses who went on a tape with us or our piles of documents, or the fact that team ballers proposed zero factual corrections to our now 507 minutes. They attempted to slur us with the P word more than a dozen times. But as you look through these papers, there is an incredibly important case that I think Ballmer really does want to make here in defense of his own innocence and his own victimhood in terms of how he does business and certainly how he protects his integrity. Because it is not merely that quote, Balmer invested in Aspiration because of its purported commitment to environmental sustainability. A passion Ballmer shared end quote. Which you know as As a side note, I have not seen the Clippers announce a new sustainability partner to replace Aspiration and do the carbon credits thing, but we'll go with it. I mean, in keeping with the theme of this episode. Crucially, Steve Ballmer's lawyers also say this.

[Amin]

Despite having conducted thorough due diligence, Ballmer's trust and aspiration was sorely misplaced.

[Pablo Torre]

Thoroughly due diligence. And what qualifies as thorough? David, we talk about vocabulary all the time. And in fact, the last time we did our own thorough due diligence on a very important adjective deployed by Team Ballmer was in our last Aspiration episode from January. And the word then was significant because last October, in reference to how well Ballmer knew Sandberg before the owner of the Clippers decided to Give Aspirations Founder $50 million. In September 2021, the Wall Street Journal reported this.

[David Sampson]

A person close to the Ballmer Group, his investment company, said the two hardly knew each other. He said that Ballmer and Sandberg had their first significant interaction at the press conference announcing the partnership between the Clippers and Aspiration.

[Pablo Torre]

But now, given what Ballmer just filed in court about thorough due diligence, that Wall Street Journal quote is even more significant because it seems pretty difficult for an investor to conduct thorough due diligence on a startup whose founder he had never spent significant time with and apparently hardly knew. But to be totally fair, of course, maybe Ballmer just directed his whole team of lawyers and his chief investment officer to thoroughly diligence any and all paperwork on his behalf. And for a $50 million investment, many founders and lawyers tell me thoroughly vetting all that documentation would typically take at least a month, often more.

[David Sampson]

I can get an agreement done in weeks. Sometimes it takes months in order because you're negotiating literal lines of a 200 page agreement. And the most important sections are the most eye glazing for normal people, which are reps and warranties, who knows what, when, at the time of the signing. What are you promising to do if something is discovered after the fact? Who pays for any issues that arise from a contract or from a lack of performance or an over performance?

[Pablo Torre]

And so maybe all that vetting happened. Maybe Team Ballmer vetted Sandberg so diligently, in fact, and for so many months, that in late 2024, long after Ballmer already knew that the feds were investigating Zandberg for defrauding aspiration investors, Ballmer still decided to make a donation of $1.875 million to Joe Sandberg's personal charity, which the Ballmer Group did. But in order to calculate how many months Team Ballmer spent diligencing aspirations paperwork, which now seems incredibly relevant to Ballmer's claim in court, you'd need privileged information, something like a confidential email chain between Sandberg and aspirations lawyers and Ballmer's lawyers and Ballmer's chief investment officer. And this email chain just happens to be the next document in David and Amin's folders. Amin, could you please read from the internal email that starts it all off?

[Amin]

This is from Joe Samberg, sent Friday, Sept. 3, 2021, 10:16am Connecting legal teams for Ballmer investment importance high. And then the message says, please meet here. Brandt Vaughn, Ballmer's chief investment officer and aspirations newest partner in our mission. Brant is going to loop in his counsel. Thank you for how hard you and team are working so we can sign and close in the next few days.

[Pablo Torre]

Ooh, and if you're wondering, that's quick. If you're wondering why doe Zandberg would be trying to close this deal in the next few days. Of course, me too. So I called up someone in the aspiration finance department who's been right about everything they have told us for about a year now. Source number one, just to spell it out, why was Joe rushing this? Why did they want their money in?

[Aspiration Insider]

Cuz she was broke. There was no money.

[Pablo Torre]

So By September of 2021, in that month, aspiration was already broke.

[Aspiration Insider]

Yep. And they were just burning. I Mean aspiration never was profitable.

[Pablo Torre]

And the person Sandberg sent that urgent introductory email to to speed close on 50 million dollar investment from one of the richest men on earth is Brandt Vaughn. The guy I mean name there brand Vaughn is Ballmer's other right hand man. You should know, he's kind of the personal finance equivalent of Lawrence Frank. And he replies to Joe Sandberg that Same day, Friday, September 3rd.

[David Sampson]

David, thanks all. We're aligning a few additional resources on our side. Does it make sense to jump on a call once we have had a chance to review the purchase agreement and.

[Pablo Torre]

Friday, September 3rd, by the way, I mean you may also recognize as the beginning of a certain holiday weekend that.

[Amin]

Is Labor Day weekend. Labor Day weekend is the unofficial return to facilities for most teams to start working out, gearing up in advance of the start of official training camp at the end of September.

[Pablo Torre]

So I didn't fully realize that. So there's one pressure from Joe Sandberg. According to source number one, they need money. And then in the NBA world, Labor Day weekend is heralding the actual arrival of the players on your team.

[Amin]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

And so on Wednesday, September 8, this is just five calendar days, three of which are Labor Day weekend. Obviously after the suits from aspiration and Ballmer's legal and finance teams meet each other for the first time over email. As you guys just read, Ballmer's lawyer sends an email Amin, which says this.

[Amin]

So this email's from Wednesday, September 8, 2021. So what's that? Five days later we are signed off on the form of subscription agreement. We had one comment on the version of the purchase agreement that was circulated last night. Attached here. We'll review the documents that just came around as well.

[David Sampson]

You can't have a thorough negotiation of a purchase agreement or a subscription agreement that quickly. I don't care who you're staffing it with.

[Amin]

Well, it was, it was circulated last night.

[David Sampson]

The purchase agreement, it's too. Yeah, I mean you can have an issues list, but you, you cannot have a sign off unless it. Unless what?

[Pablo Torre]

If they don't celebrate Labor Day, it doesn't matter. Cultural.

[David Sampson]

It's still, it's only five days.

[Pablo Torre]

They're religiously against labor.

[Amin]

I should point out this email is at 2 in the afternoon. So it was most of today last night. Today the morning, they had most of the day.

[Pablo Torre]

It was at 2:04pm you're flipping burgers.

[Amin]

With one hand and you're reading the document in the other. What's the big deal? Crack open a cold one in the.

[Pablo Torre]

Middle whomst among us has not reviewed a 209 page 50 million dollar personal investment agreement between Steve Ballmer and Aspiration done through his personal LLC which is called again Pol Pat which is very different. How dare you. How dare you suggest that's the Cambodian dangerous game. That's a dangerous Polpat LLC. Find a new slant. And this 209 page contract, David, is of course sitting in your folder.

[David Sampson]

Well, this is going to take a second. You only want me to look at what you.

[Pablo Torre]

I just want you to describe what.

[David Sampson]

I'll do a thorough review of them because look I want to offer.

[Pablo Torre]

Point is I want to offer the most generous version of the timeline because in five days they're like we're basically good. Just fix the one thing that we saw because we got this thing yesterday. But in fairness, please give us the the timestamps here.

[David Sampson]

Aspiration Partners Inc. Series C4 Preferred Stock Purchase Agreement. This Series C4 Preferred Stock Purchase Agreement is dated as of 9-14-2021 and is between Aspiration Partners Delaware Corp. And Polpat LLC. The investor, the parties are signing this C4 Preferred Stock Purchase Agreement as of the date stated in the introductory, which would be September 14, 2021. It is docusigned by Brandt Vaughn. He is the COO of Popat LLC.

[Pablo Torre]

So most generous version of the math, right? Friday, September 3rd into Labor Day weekend into Tuesday, September 14th. So just doing the math here mean it's 11 days, which simply means that Steve Ballmer's team spent as many days conducting thorough due diligence. I was agreeing with Aspiration as there are aspiration investors now suing him. And so this is what source number one had to say about this very timeline.

[Aspiration Insider]

It's insane and it's completely unheard of.

[Pablo Torre]

Even at Aspiration where how many other deals closed in this kind of a time frame?

[Aspiration Insider]

I have never seen an investment deal of this size or anywhere near this size be completed at that pace before.

[Pablo Torre]

All of which reminds me now that Ballmer told ESPN back in September this.

[David Sampson]

You'Re one of the richest men in America. You've obviously done very well in your career in business. Like you didn't smell anything wrong with the company, you didn't see anything wrong. Like you had you obviously reviewed the financials before you got involved with the business proposal.

[Pablo Torre]

I reviewed, I reviewed. My staff reviewed primarily fraudulent financials. Now, should I have sniffed it out? Maybe I feel embarrassed and kind of silly that I didn't sniff it out. But I didn't.

[David Sampson]

If these timelines of these emails, which, all right, they look like actual emails. That's not a lot of sniffing. That's like one little like snort. It's a quick one like, and then that's it.

[Pablo Torre]

But as for what Team Ballmer could have snorted, could have really sniffed out here if they actually did vet these fraudulent financials. And especially the list of businesses aspiration was counting as its customers, its corporate partners. That is also worth understanding here because according to multiple aspiration sources that I've talked to, who, like source number one, became federal witnesses in the government's investigation, this part does actually seem thoroughly embarrassing.

[Aspiration Insider]

Some of the businesses in 2021 that were signed up as corporate businesses were not real businesses. They were shell companies. I'd say about half the other half were businesses that had absolutely no business signing up for the amount of carbon offsets tree planting revenue guarantee to aspiration that they had committed. In many instances, these businesses weren't even making as much in a year as they were committing to aspiration. All of that would have been very easy to look at by doing a quick Secretary of State Google search. Or if you don't want to do that, you can do a reference call. You can call these corporate partnerships and see what your business is like before you invest something at that scale. Because these businesses were insane. They were either fake or they had no reason to purchase the amount of offsets and or trees they were purchasing monthly.

[David Sampson]

So when you start a deal, if you as the principal, when you tell your bankers and your lawyers we're doing this deal, they're going to do less work than when you sit them down and say, hey, we're looking at this. Let me know your thought. There's two different ways you approach it with a banker or a lawyer. And the assumption I'm making, given the timeline here is Ballmer said, hey, we're signing this like we're good. Don't worry about it.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, Joe Sandberg is asking for a close in the next few days. Steve Ballmer is clearly authorizing a close within five to 11 days.

[Amin]

Given that, I am very curious to know what the one revision was on like, even in this deal that has to go through that we're willing to.

[Pablo Torre]

Look, take out the cap circumvention.

[Amin]

Don't say it out loud, just.

[Pablo Torre]

But the real kicker, of course, as you will now recall, is that Steve Ballmer did not just invest in September 2021. He also invested another $10 million in March 2023, while 19 outside investors whom Joe Sandberg solicited for money. Those 19 all said no, according to court filings, whereas Steve Ballmer and his friend Dennis Wong, who had never invested in Aspiration before and was the only new investor in this round, said yes. We should say here, of course, that we reached out to the Ballmer Group and the Clippers PR department, which has previously and very notably spoken on behalf of the Ballmer Group before in our previous request for comment. And the Clippers once again declined to comment, citing their participation in the league investigation, and Brandt Vaughn from the Ballmer Group did not respond. But as for why Ballmer went along with the Rush timeline and didn't do the thorough due diligence that his legal team claims, it brings us to another part of Team Ballmer's motion to dismiss the complaint from the 11 aspiration investors. Because this is how Amin Ballmer's lawyers describe the story of the first amended complaint, or fac.

[Amin]

The FAC alleges that Ballmer invested in Aspiration solely so that Aspiration could endorse Leonard, allowing Leonard to receive more, quote, compensation unquote, than the NBA rules allowed.

[Pablo Torre]

And here in the real world in podcast Court, that adverb solely is funny to me because anyone who's listened to any of the hours that we've done in this series should know that Steve Ballmer did not solely use Aspiration to arrange this no show endorsement side deal for Kawhi Leonard. There were in fact other financial sweeteners involved. As source number one again reminds us.

[Aspiration Insider]

With Ballmer's investment, Oaktree Capital Management had invested as well with the intention of Aspiration going public through a SPAC deal, which is a merger in which an already public company, and we know now because it's public knowledge, that that was inter private, would take Aspiration underneath it, create a public entity that is Aspiration Public. We can just call it Aspiration Public and then that company would be worth at least $2.2 billion at the time, right?

[Pablo Torre]

Ballmer was set to make a ton of money and it all would have been brilliant, as we've said many times, if the guy he trusted to help him deceive the NBA, Joe Sandberg, was not also deceiving him on some level, which again, thorough due diligence might have produced before you decided to get into this mess. But there was still another reason Steve Ballmer was apparently so eager to do this deal. Amin. And this headline you might recall, is from CNBC. From that same exact month, September 2021.

[Amin]

LA Clippers signed $300 million plus arena sponsorship deal with Green Bank Aspiration.

[Pablo Torre]

And you may now wonder how much was Ballmer really motivated by that, by the fact that he was getting a guaranteed $300 million in exchange for that speed investment of 50 million in September 2021. And so the next document in your folder, David, is an internal private email that I obtained from October 2021. This sent by the CEO of Inter Private, the company Aspiration was set to go public with. And it was sent to aspirations co founders and lawyers and bankers. They were discussing the terms that an Oaktree executive whose name we've redacted here, was negotiating with Aspiration directly in the footsteps of Steve Ballmer, deciding to invest his $50 million.

[David Sampson]

Redacted knows Ballmer was partly motivated by the Clippers sponsorship deal.

[Pablo Torre]

And this should not be that surprising, that that is in writing somewhere that Steve Ballmer had other reasons to get into the Aspiration business. Perhaps because, quote, he was partly motivated by the 300 million dollar sponsorship deal. But as usual, what Team Ballmer wants you to think is that the real victim here, I mean, has been the 13th richest person on earth all along. As his lawyers go on to write.

[Amin]

Ballmer lost his entire invested capital and Aspiration and the Clippers terminated both the Master Services agreement and corporate sponsorship agreement with the company.

[Pablo Torre]

Which now reminds me, David, of something the Clippers had told us when they were answering our request for comment way back in part one of our P word.

[Amin]

Oh, I was gonna take a drink.

[Pablo Torre]

Before they knew the scope of the.

[David Sampson]

Documentation that I had, neither Mr. Ballmer nor the Clippers circumvented the salary cap or engaged in any misconduct related to Aspiration. Any contrary assertion is provably false. The team ended its relationship with Aspiration years ago during the 2223 season when aspiration defaulted on its obligations.

[Pablo Torre]

So they're saying they terminated the deal during the 202223 season. And the lawyers had just said, and what Amin read, that they terminated both the Master Services agreement and corporate sponsorship agreement with the company. So let's look at this timeline because this language about the breakup here, this timeline turns out to be provably false. The Clippers season officially ended in 2023. Amin In April, April 25, they had lost to the Phoenix Suns in the first round of the playoffs. But in June of 2023, June 29, 2023, a very convenient birthday takes place more than two months after that, because me and the Clippers then posted this Happy birthday Kawhi.

[Amin]

And they've got a little the emoji that's blowing like the party favor and got the little hat on for every comment slash retweet Spiration will plant one tree for Kawhi's birthday.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, and to be clear, this is not an example of Kawhi performing any of the potential services in his endorsement.

[David Sampson]

Agreement unless he planted the tree, which.

[Pablo Torre]

We are told he did not personally. The bobblehead is like this that we talked about in last month's episode. It's a sponsored item that Aspiration paid to sponsor. They had previously been sponsoring the birthday posts for Nick Batum and Paul George and Norm Powell and Ty Lue and everybody else. But conceivably that would end when you end the deal. But according to multiple high level sources at Aspiration, the Clippers did not terminate their corporate sponsorship agreement at the end of June either. The deal very weirdly lingered on into the off season, very unterminated, even though it was also pretty obvious to everybody by then that the company was pretty.

[Amin]

This kind of reminds me of the quote from the movie Terminator. You guys remember this?

[Aspiration Insider]

Of course.

[Amin]

It's Kyle Reese. He's warning Sarah Connor, trying to tell her about the Terminator. She doesn't believe him. He says, the Terminator's out there.

[Pablo Torre]

It can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with, it doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear, and it absolutely.

[Amin]

Will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

[Pablo Torre]

You're saying that this deal, much like the Terminator, was hard to terminate.

[Amin]

It was not gonna die. Kyle Reese, played by Michael Bean.

[Pablo Torre]

The amount of time we're wasting here, you've got problems. All of this points to how anxiously Steve Ballmer, though, and Lawrence Frank would have worried for years about protecting their secret side deals, plural, per Michael Winger with Kawhi Leonard. And this is a worry that I think was best exemplified by a 2019 quote in the LA Times from then Clipper's head coach and Steve Ballmer's fellow aspiration investor Doc Rivers, who had the year before, visited the nearby offices of Aspiration for a motivational speech. This was, I mean, not long after Kawhi signed with the Clippers in free agency.

[Amin]

I was at home in Malibu and Lawrence called me and told me, look, it looks like he's either going to Toronto or the Lakers. A Lakers part just threw me over. I told him that can't happen. I remember I kept telling him, we can't allow that to happen. I actually told Steve jokingly that if that happens, we're moving the team to Seattle. It was a Joke. But I was actually serious about it. I really believe that.

[Pablo Torre]

David, Steve Ballmer's commentary from the day that his franchise introduced Kawhi. This is July 2019, I would call it similarly restrained. I have these notes, but I gotta say, I'm just fired up to be here today. Pretty cool.

[Amin]

Pretty damn cool.

[David Sampson]

Love it. Listen, I'll be very critical of the business things that he's done, but that's. That's excitement, man. You want. Don't you want your owner to be that excited?

[Amin]

I think that's the sad part about all this. We're doing eight episodes and we're deep diving, ripping apart all these claims and stuff. But I gotta say, I wish I worked for an owner like him.

[David Sampson]

You're also coming from Phoenix, man.

[Pablo Torre]

You.

[David Sampson]

You were at the bottom of the barrel. Sorry.

[Amin]

Yeah. No offense.

[Pablo Torre]

You wish you worked for the other owner. Under investigation by Walk to Luke.

[Aspiration Insider]

He's.

[David Sampson]

That's goofy. I'm not gonna lie to you.

[Pablo Torre]

I think it's. But I think his enthusiasm is cool. I do. That's not what I'm making fun of. I'm merely pointing out that Kawhi Leonard made that man and Doc Rivers, these two aspiration investors react in that way. But I do now want to point out something else that I personally think is cool. Because as it turns out, the complaint filed by those 11 aspiration investors is not the only lawsuit that Team Ballmer is facing and fighting in court on the down low right now.

[Amin]

There's another lawsuit.

[Pablo Torre]

There's a lawsuit in direct connection to hidden side deals for Kawhi Leonard. And David, I know you're fingering that folder, but this other lawsuit is going to allow us to pressure test everything we've been talking about here and also look even further behind the curtain of how Steve Ballmer has secretly run the Clippers. And yes, David, put on your bifocals.

[David Sampson]

They're not bifocals. Could you stop?

[Amin]

They're just focals.

[Pablo Torre]

They're just.

[David Sampson]

They're 1 focal 2.0.

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That's it.

[Pablo Torre]

We do, though, have a second lawsuit after the break.

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[Pablo Torre]

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[Amin]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[David Sampson]

Way to reach eco conscious shoppers.

[Pablo Torre]

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[David Sampson]

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[Pablo Torre]

I mean, in fairness to the Clippers, right? And Steve Ballmer, this owner that you kind of wish you worked for. I do want to start this part of the story by showing you what Lawrence Frank, the president of basketball, told reporters on the fateful day that the franchise introduced Kawhi. If you can, please read this transcript from Ben Golliver of the late, great Washington Post Sports department. He says this quote, we didn't recruit.

[Amin]

What we did was we went to many games to scout and research. We never had a conversation with Kwai or with any of his people. We always felt by doing it out in front, we were being very, very transparent. We weren't doing anything behind the scenes. We know the rules. We follow the rules. We feel very, very good about how we did everything with Steve in terms of how he does business. His integrity is number one. We're always going to be above the line. That's what we did. Are we going to be aggressive? Yes. Are we going to be transparent? Yes. Are we going to follow the rules? 100% mark a departure from the way he answered Ramona's question a few years later.

[Pablo Torre]

But the phrase in this story that I need to get to here, it actually starts years before Kawhi gets introduced. And this one starts with a different voice. It belongs to a guy named Randy Shelton. And Randy Shelton happens to know Kawhi Leonard really, really well.

[Johnny Wilkes]

So you are Kawhi's strength Trainer or it's from the days at San Diego State. I am currently the strength and conditioning coach for SDSU men's basketball. But I also, yes, I am Kawhi's personal. Like, what Kawhi like to say is I'm like just Tim Grover. I've been with him since he's been at sdsu and on the off season he comes and he trades with me. Down in San Diego, we try to keep everything discrete. If you try to Google stuff or look stuff up, we kind of try to keep everything on the down low.

[Pablo Torre]

So this tape of Randy Shelton, you may recall the voice of his interviewer. This is PTFO correspondent Tom Haberstrough back in 2016. And 2016 was an interesting year for Kawhi Leonard. He had already won a championship with the San Antonio spurs, had been named Finals mvp. And I mean, you just heard Randy Shelton mentioned that Kawhi thought of Randy Shelton as his.

[Amin]

Tim Grover, who was Tim Grover, was Michael Jordan's trainer. So every off season, Michael Jordan would go train with Tim Grover. They'd bring in other NBA pros for these high level pickup games in Chicago at hoops. The gym was the name of the gym.

[Johnny Wilkes]

You know, my goal is to get him to be the greatest athlete on this planet, movement wise. And like I like to say, he's a human avatar. There was a cutout at stake and up in the stand there was a picture of Kawhi's head on the avatar body. No. And I looked at that and I just said, like, that's exactly how I want Kawhi to perform, like a human avatar.

[Pablo Torre]

There is, I realize now a lot of James Cameron in this episode, but if you're wondering, David, have you seen the avatars?

[David Sampson]

Not the latest.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, this is from the first one. And this is a picture of Kawhi Leonard as referenced as a Na' Vi from Avatar because they actually did make this thing at San Diego State. And of course, Kawhi Leonard, like the Na', Vi, both love trees, as we all know. But I mean, what happened beginning in that 201617 season between Kawhi and the San Antonio spurs, his actual employer, as his physical health was concerned, was what.

[Amin]

Kawhi has a marvelous season. And they are, are the team that people say, well, you know what? This might be the team that can unseat the unstoppable Golden State warriors that have now have Kevin Durant in their midst. And game one is going very much in the spurs way until qu Leonard has a catch and shoot opportunity in the corner Zaza Pagilia closes out and his size whatever foot slides right under Kawai's landing area. KW lands, rolls, his ankle is hurt, does not return for the rest of the series. The spurs end up losing all the games.

[Pablo Torre]

This is the origin story of Uncle Dennis Robertson, although he didn't realize it at that very moment.

[Amin]

Pablo if I may, the origin story starts a little earlier because watch this. Not a lot of people remember this, but I'll always remember this long, long time ago talking with Mark west so I used to work with in Phoenix and Mark said whenever a guy's eligible extension but the team ops to not extend and wait to restricted free agency the player never forgets the player even if it's a hey, it makes sense financially for us and the way the cap works and we'll have more space and and you'll still get your money. Being told to wait for your money is an experience that players never forget. Kawhi Leonard, prior to the 1415 season, was eligible to be extended. This is coming off his rookie extension, basically his rookie extension eligible. And the spurs said, no, no, no, wait, because I think we can get lamarcus Aldridge or whatever the next off season. So he waited. He got his money as a restricted free agent the next summer. But that, I'm told was the first seeds, the first salvo of like, wait a second, if they love me like they tell me they love me, why aren't they taking care of me immediately? Why am I told to wait?

[Pablo Torre]

So. So word around the league is trickling out, by the way, that given this backdrop and given this injury, that there is a difference of medical opinion.

[Amin]

Yes, because there had been several smaller injuries that happened throughout his spurs tenure where the medical staff of the team said, you're fine and Kwai said I don't feel fine, and then had to get reevaluated and then found out that there was something else going on the ankle roll against the warriors that wasn't his first ankle injury. He had had that ankle injury earlier that season early, I think early in the postseason and was told you're fine to play on it. And then he gets hurt and obviously misses the rest of the conference finals. That also was an event that was like, I don't know how much I can trust these people.

[Pablo Torre]

And the spurs, of course, are famously cloistered. They do things their own way. And in this case this began to spill out into the public, even though it has, of course, a very understandable dynamic. And the reason I'm bringing all this up is because the guy who was tending to Kawhi Leonard's body, his personal trainer, his Tim Grover, Randy Shelton, provides more context here because as now ESPN is describing, Kawhi is distant, disconnected from the organization. This is obviously now happening in public. And so what Randy Shelton, the man responsible for Kawhi's body, says is that Team Ballmer starts recruiting Kawhi Leonard through Randy Shelton. Okay, so we're now in August of 2017. This is a couple months after that worrisome ankle injury that gets all of this stuff going. And the Clippers hire a guy named Mark Hughes as their assistant general manager. And this assistant gm, among other NBA front office jobs he's held, had something in common with Randy Shelton in their employment history. Mark Hughes had also worked at San Diego State, Kawhi's alma mater, years prior as an assistant coach. And according to an active lawsuit that Randy Shelton filed in 2024 against the Clippers, what the new assistant GM started doing after getting that new job was reaching out to Randy. And I'll explain this lawsuit further in a second, David, but would you mind reading this Excerpt First?

[David Sampson]

In 2017, Assistant General Manager Mark Hughes began pursuing Leonard through Shelton. Hughes repeatedly emphasized the need for discretion as Hughes sought private health information about Leonard. And Hughes discussed the Clippers desire to to obtain Leonard and the likelihood of attracting Leonard to join the Clippers. Hughes set up numerous meetings with shelton beginning in 2017 while Leonard was still under contract to attempt to find out Leonard's contractual requirements and medical situation.

[Pablo Torre]

Now, this is allegedly thorough due diligence.

[David Sampson]

I mean, this is tampering.

[Pablo Torre]

So can you please explain tampering and how this is actually kind of interesting in that regard.

[David Sampson]

It's hugely simple. When a player is under contract with Team X, no other team can talk to him or his representative about playing for Team Y. That is very simply what tampering is.

[Amin]

To illustrate, Magic Johnson, when he was president of basketball operations for the Lakers, once went on the Jimmy Kimmel show and said something to the effect of, oh, I'd love to have a player like Giannis. That was deemed to be tempering by the NBA. And he was fined, fined six figures for that. So I think we can agree that if this occurred, kind of goes far above and beyond going on Jimmy Kimmel and saying, I'd love to have a great player on my team.

[David Sampson]

I mean, are you gonna sit here and tell me that in all your years in the front office that you or someone else you knew of was not in contact or engaged in the act of tampering. Are you going to say that?

[Amin]

I, I, I'm not. Wait, hold on. How did we know the rules? We know the rules, David.

[David Sampson]

I know the rules. I mean, I know the rules. I know the rules too.

[Pablo Torre]

The rules in question, right? I am not scandalized by tampering, but what I am pointing out here is that Randy Shelton claims that The Clippers assistant GM ultimately called him at least 15 times, met him at least seven times in person starting in 2017, years before free agency. And according to Shelton's lawsuit, the assistant GM Mark Hughes is also repeatedly telling Randy Shelton something else. Amin.

[Amin]

As part of these discussions, Hughes discussed bringing Shelton into the Clippers organization as a strength and conditioning coach. Given the personal relationship and trust that.

[David Sampson]

Leonard had in Shelton, I'm happy because this is great. It's what players do when they've got leverage. They will say, hey, hire my guy. I've had that so many times. Hire my strength guy, hire my mental guy, my masseuse, bring in my masseuse and bring in my trainer.

[Amin]

Security. Oh God, that's team security.

[David Sampson]

Bring in my security guy. Like, whatever. We're fine on that.

[Amin]

Well, it's, it's, I'm getting my guy work and I'm not having to pay for it. That's what it is.

[Pablo Torre]

So Randy Shelton, spoiler alert. Would in fact get hired by the Clippers as an assistant coach, full time assistant coach on the performance staff in 2019 once Kawhi signed with them as a free agent. This lawsuit is actually Shelton claiming that his eventual termination by the team was wrongful. And you should know that the Clippers have denied both the tampering claims and the wrongful termination. And they've said that Shelton just wants more money. Again, as with the 11 aspiration investors, I didn't write this lawsuit. Not involved in it, can't vouch for its outcome. But the legal proceedings have been heating up behind closed doors and information keeps shaking loose. Which provides me with more leads to check. David. For instance, back in 2017, okay, this is months after the Clippers hired the assistant GM Mark Hughes and allegedly assigned him to recruit Kawhi Leonard through Randy Shelton. Here's something else I found. Shelton also filed some paperwork of his own that fall with the Secretary of State in California. And this is not mentioned in the lawsuit at all. But we found it in our research, in our due diligence. And David, you might notice that the title of this new company sounds a little familiar.

[David Sampson]

Limited liability Company Name KL2Performance LLC Filed October 5, 2017 Agent for Service of Process, Randy Shelton.

[Pablo Torre]

Now, you may of course recall that KL2Aspire, LLC, founded in 2021, is the entity which kicked off the prison that I'm currently still trapped in. And that is how the Clippers were allegedly getting money to Kawhi through a third party in violation of the NBA salary cap. And Kawhi, just as we zoom out here for a second, along with Uncle Dennis, would go on to form 16 of these KL2 LLCs. There's KL2 Content, LLC, there's KL2RIFC LLC, there's KL2RIFC Real Estate, LLC. And on and on and on, almost as many times as we were called a podcast by Steve Ballmer's lawyers. But KL2 Performance, LLC is historic in its own way because KL2 Performance is the first KL2 variant ever registered, the.

[Amin]

Patient zero of KL2s.

[Pablo Torre]

Four years before KL2 Aspire, KL2 Performance becomes the patient zero. And at this point in October of 2017, as you may notice, there's no mention in this filing of Uncle Dennis. And by June 2018, as Amin you were alluding to earlier, the medical drama with the spurs escalates to the point where Kawhi formally demands this trade, a trade to Los Angeles and instead gets.

[Amin]

Sent to the Great White North Toronto.

[David Sampson]

Hell yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

At which point, according to Randy Shelton's lawsuit, Clippers President of Basketball operations Lawrence Frank met with Randy Shelton as well.

[David Sampson]

David Frank himself met personally with Shelton in San Diego in or around February 2019 to discuss Leonard's willingness to join the Clippers and assuring Leonard through Shelton, that the Clippers would provide all necessary provisions for his success at the highest level in free agency and all of the vital members who could have an impact on sick Leonard's decision, Frank personally assured Shelton that he would have a position with with the strength, condition and performance department for the Clippers if Leonard decided to join the Clippers in free agency. Still, during Leonard and the Raptors championship run, Shelton again was asked to meet with the Clippers regarding Leonard's willingness to sign with the Clippers. In this meeting, Shelton met with John Mayer, the Director of Medical and performance for the Clippers, and Lee Jenkins, director of Research and identity.

[Pablo Torre]

But Randy Shelton was far from the only person allegedly getting the full court press from the Clippers as Steve Ballmer suddenly found himself competing head to head in 2019 against who?

[Amin]

I mean the Los Angeles Lakers, The.

[Pablo Torre]

Big Brother Lakers who already had LeBron James and I know this part because of yet another lawsuit that got filed against the Clippers, this one from 2020 and this one filed by a long, long time friend of Dennis Robertson by the name of Johnny Wilkes. Johnny Wilkes was teammates with Uncle Dennis on their basketball team in high school. And Johnny Wilkes was presented as the plug to Uncle Dennis. And the plug claimed that the Clippers promised him something in return for helping deliver Kawhi to the Clippers. And Wilkes recently described this to a friend on a YouTube video that has been viewed at last check by 175 people. What? How much did you ask for?

[Johnny Wilkes]

Let me ask that.

[Aspiration Insider]

2.5 million.

[Pablo Torre]

And that was cheap for Kawhi Leonard.

[Aspiration Insider]

I should have asked for 10 million.

[Pablo Torre]

I should say that an LA judge dismissed this case in 2022. They pointed out that the plug, Donnie Wilkes did not have a written contract with the Clippers. And Wilkes lawyer also did not respond to multiple of our requests for comment. But the reason, again I bring this all up now, is because in the course of this lawsuit, the other, other lawsuit, we also get access to verifiable information. I'm just doing my due diligence, thorough. And I keep on getting information that we wouldn't know otherwise. And it also indicates directly what team Ballmer was taking time to thoroughly sniff out about Team Kawhi Leonard, because text messages obtained by Pablo Torre finds out show that Donnie Wilks, the plug between Team Kawhi and Team Bomber, was communicating specifically with Clippers consultant and executive board member Jerry West. The late great oh man logo, a former Laker and Basketball hall of Famer who left a similar job with the warriors to join the Clippers in 2017, the same year they hired assistant GM Marcus. I mean, this is how the New York Times explained the hiring of Jerry west by the Clippers.

[Amin]

The idea to pursue west came from Ballmer's former Harvard classmate turned Clippers minority shareholder Dennis Wong, who was once part of Golden State's ownership group. He kept saying, quote, we need a guy like Jerry west. Unquote. Unquote, Ballmer said.

[Pablo Torre]

And then on July 1, 2019, this is the first full day free agency was officially open for business. Ballmer and Lawrence Frank and Doc Rivers officially pitch Kawhi Leonard and Uncle Dennis in person at the house of, of course, Doc Rivers. And that day, the logo left Johnny Wilkes a voicemail.

[Johnny Wilkes]

This is Jerry calling. You know, I really want to thank you a lot for, you know, trying to help. I heard this morning that everyone over in the Lakers camp think they're going to get him. I just find it hard to believe that he would want to go to that show where he would not even be when he get his name in the paper. And he wouldn't be the face of the franchise, that's for sure. He might be the best player on the team, but hope things are well and well again. I really, really appreciate everything you've done.

[Pablo Torre]

Johnny Wilkes YouTube channel is pretty wild, by the way. That's where we're pulling this out.

[Amin]

That's where the voicemail comes from.

[Pablo Torre]

No one was watching this stuff, but they are now. That's Jerry West. That is verifiably Jerry West. And again, I think it speaks to the fear, the actual fear of losing out on Kawhi that Doc Rivers in that quote that Amin read before spoke to when he said the team might as well move to Seattle if they don't get him because this is Jerry West. Also now texting Johnny Wilkes to follow up. And so David, you get to be the logo with the gray bubbles. Amin, please be Johnny Wilkes. Plug with the blue bubbles. And we'll start with David.

[David Sampson]

Just wanted to thank you for your help. If he would go to the Lakers, he would be LeBron's Caddy.

[Amin]

Hey Mr. West, I was with Dennis this morning when you called. I know you guys are meeting at 3pm at Doc's house. Good luck.

[Pablo Torre]

And later the plug Johnny Wilkes followed up with Another reply to Mr. West.

[Amin]

Dennis is kind of excited about this meeting with Mr. Ballmer. Good luck, Mr. West. Balmer spelled B O M B E.

[Pablo Torre]

R by the way. That's right. To which Jerry west says, when can.

[David Sampson]

We expect a decision? Don't want to be a pest and frankly don't want to bother Dennis anymore. If you hear anything, please let me know. Thank you for all your help.

[Amin]

Should be noted that the communication between Jerry west that David led with and the responses from Johnny Wilkes that I read occurred on July 1, 2019. That last response from Jerry west, when can we expect a decision? Happens July 4, 2019.

[David Sampson]

That's very good because what I was noticing is that the Guy's phone was at 1%.

[Pablo Torre]

I unfortunately missed both of those details. Well played by both of you. But yes, speaking of Mr. Bomber, sealed within the filings in the case of Johnny Wilkes VLA clippers are text messages first described by the Washington Post Sports department RIP but we now have obtained the screenshots because this is Jerry west and Steve Ballmer himself now trying to speed close on their most important superstar. For instance, this is one on July 5th and Mr. Ballmer says, where did.

[Amin]

Your guy think he is leaning?

[Pablo Torre]

To which the logo Jerry west, who has been again plugged into Team Kawhi via the plug, responds, could not get indication.

[David Sampson]

I would hope that with everyone involved on his side who are pro Clippers, that they are telling him that this is a chance of a lifetime to be involved with you and our organization.

[Pablo Torre]

All of which means that Steve Ballmer was diligencing. And also that despite what Randy Shelton, the Avatar Whisperer and the Uncle Dennis plug, Donny Wils and the Clippers full court press and the offer to trade five first rounders and two pick swaps, plus future MVP Shay Gilder Alexander for Paul George, which Kawhi Leonard also demanded, it remained unclear what the decision would be until the very end. Like that's how much leverage Team Kawhi had on the richest man in all of sports. And this helps further explain, I think, how Mr. Ballmer felt at that introductory presser in July 2019. But most of all, I'm pumped to say hello, it's Clippers Paul and Kawhi. Come on, come on, come on. Get up, come on, get up. If you were nice as I am, get up. Yeah, That's why we're here today.

[Amin]

One conference finals, the only, the only one in franchise history though.

[Pablo Torre]

So raise the banner to quote Lawrence Frank again. Quote we never had a conversation with Kawhi or with any of his people.

[Amin]

We always felt by doing it out in front, we were being very, very transparent. We weren't doing anything behind the scenes. We know the rules.

[Pablo Torre]

We follow the rules with Steve in terms of how he does business, his integrity is number one, end quote. And in August of 2019, the month after Lawrence Frank gives that quote about following the rules, knowing the rules, the San Diego Union Tribune reports officially that Randy Shelton is hired away from San Diego State's basketball team by the Clippers as a full time assistant coach on the performance staff as allegedly promised. But not long after that, November 2019, there was a more subtle change in the business life of Randy Shelton, the trainer and his Na' Vi Kawhi Leonard, because according to again the California Secretary of State's database, the LLC Shelton had started in 2017, the same year he was being recruited by the Clippers and their assistant GM, KL2 Performance LLC received a notice, the first in a series of delinquency notices. And by the following year, September 2020, with Kawhi and his trainer both employed on the books by the Clippers, KL2 Performance LLC was officially suspended from operating as a business in California, indicating that the person behind it for some reason no longer needed it anymore. The patient zero of LLCs had functionally expired.

[Amin]

Hasta la vista baby.

[Pablo Torre]

To quote another political figure from the California State House.

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[Pablo Torre]

So this now brings us back to the year 2021. This is the year Steve Ballmer and his staff would do their comically brief due diligence of aspiration in September and around that same time Amin, something very curious happened and it is the next document in your folder.

[Amin]

This employment agreement is made and entered into as of July 1, 2021 by and between LA Clippers LLC team and Randy Shelton employee.

[Pablo Torre]

This is a fully executed copy of the three year contract Randy Shelton, Kawhi's trainer, had signed with the Clippers to remain their full time assistant performance coach. So 2021 and again in this legal back and forth. I I'm not picking sides here. I don't know who's going to win this case. ESPN has actually covered some of this stuff already, but there is one part of this document that's been so far overlooked and it's not the arbitration clause in Shelton's contract, David, it's the thing in your folder. What section is this?

[David Sampson]

This is section 13 notices. All notices or other communication required or permitted to be given under this agreement shall be in writing and shall be sent via electronic mail to the email address set forth below and delivered personally or sent overnight courier to the addresses set forth below. If to team Lawrence Frank, LA Clippers with a copy to Nicole Duckett, LA Clippers.

[Pablo Torre]

Nicole Duckett was the Clippers chief legal counsel representing Lawrence Frank. That makes sense. But Randy Shelton's equivalent, who is also receiving every legal notice, is who if.

[David Sampson]

To employee Randy Shelton with a copy to Dennis Robertson.

[Pablo Torre]

So this speaks to something else that Randy Shelton has claimed in this lawsuit, which is that his employment contract was personally negotiated between Lawrence Frank, the president of the team, and Dennis Robertson, an unlicensed NBA agent who was so unlicensed that Adam Silver, you may recall, changed the league rules in response to an investigation of his dealings in 2019 to prevent people like him from negotiating deals like this ever again. I remind you, Amin, of course, that this contract is from 2021. But nonetheless, could you please keep reading from Randy Shelton's lawsuit?

[Amin]

Moreover, plaintiff alleges that Mr. Robertson threatened him with exclusion from the Clippers unless he agreed to pay 10% of his compensation, a demand that raises serious questions of duress, coercion, and procedural unconscionability.

[Pablo Torre]

This all means, to translate it, that allegedly Uncle Dennis threatened to fire Kawhi's personal trainer from his job with the Clippers if the trainer didn't pay Uncle Dennis the agent fee.

[Amin]

The kickback.

[Pablo Torre]

Yep, 10% of the salary in his employment contract. This would be weird if only because Uncle Dennis did not work for the Clippers and supposedly does not dictate what they do with these shady side deals. Because they all know the rules.

[Amin]

Uncle Dennis could claim that he is acting as Randy Shelton's agent. Randy Shelton's agent, whoever that is, does not need to be certified by the nbpa. So it could be literally anyone.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, what I am told reliably by sources close to this situation is that the Clippers were not only totally aware of this arrangement, allegedly they agreed to this practice as a way of getting more money to Uncle Dennis directly. Randy Shelton's the person who allegedly is like, I don't love this. And so, again, we're evolving the question of, like, what do the Clippers know and how do they do business behind the scenes?

[David Sampson]

It's very interesting to me because there's some of these. So Steve Ballmer as an example. An owner would not see this employment contract as part of his everyday job as owner. It's way too far below him. But you have instructions. Get Leonard done. And then Lawrence Frank would have to go to Steve Ballmer and say, hey, we're going to need to do the following. We need someone in strength. We're going to have to have this guy and that guy and Steve Ballmer, that is only approved by the owner. You would never have a GM who would agree to hire people outside of on the court players without speaking to the president or the owner of the team. In my experience, that would be very rare.

[Amin]

I'm still stuck on the 10% that comes out of Randy's contract. Doing that would allow the Clippers to compensate Dennis Robertson without actually having a direct financial paper trail. It's like, oh no, we had nothing to do with it. That's, that's Randy kicking back to his agent or his representative.

[David Sampson]

That's why I was looking at what his pay was.

[Amin]

Yeah, so yeah, I looked at that too.

[Pablo Torre]

A couple hundred thousand dollars.

[David Sampson]

Listen, it ain't nothing.

[Amin]

It ain't nothing.

[David Sampson]

That is a shocking amount to get paid. It was a three year deal. 225, 230, 235. But take to 10% out.

[Amin]

Right.

[David Sampson]

And so he's still getting, in theory, you know, 200 grand just for purposes of ease.

[Amin]

And also don't forget the playoff bonuses, which at this moment they're believing they're going to have some deep playoff runs. And the playoff bonuses escalate as you work through the playoffs.

[Pablo Torre]

But there's another part of the contract I want to draw your attention to because the start date is July 2021. This is a month before Kawhi signed his first extension with the Clippers in August of 2021. But when was his contract actually signed, David?

[David Sampson]

11:11, 2021.

[Amin]

That's good luck.

[Pablo Torre]

So I hear Randy Shelton signs at 11:11, 2021. Lawrence Frank signs it the next day, 11:12, 2021. And this date in November 2021 brings us back to again a familiar point in our grand timeline here. Because November 11, 2021 happens to be just 11 days before Uncle Dennis Robertson filed new paperwork for a new organization which was accorded Team Ballmer. Again totally independent of the Clippers.

[Amin]

Amin KL2 Aspire LLC file date November 22, 2021.

[Pablo Torre]

The document the LLC we started this godforsaken series with, whose legal notices section, also for the record, lists Uncle Dennis Robertson with the same exact Palm beach address listed on Randy Shelton's contract. And so again, just to quote former Clipper general manager Michael Winger, how many side deals do we have with Kawhi Leonard? And this also brings us back once again to the side deal that Steve Ballmer and Lawrence Frank want you to think they had no oversight of, no awareness of, nothing to do with. Even though Steve Ballmer did go on to ESPN to admit that something happened that's notable. In the month of November of 2021, we even found the email that makes the first introduction. It was early November. I won't remember the exact date. So where could any of this circumvention have happened? It didn't. It couldn't have. The introduction got made and then they were off to the races on their own. We weren't involved. And that is the closest thing that Steve Ballmer has produced to, let's call it an anti smoking gun. Even though this email actually proves that Steve Ballmer personally knew that Aspiration was asking to do business with Kawhi Leonard. With the implication being that despite how incestuously intertwined all of this is, the Clippers and Aspiration, especially sponsorship deal, carbon credits, ownership groups, personal investments, team Ballmer had no idea about the millions of no show endorsement dollars secretly flowing in to KL2Aspire LLC. Even though the only logical reason they'd be secret in the first place is because the deal itself broke NBA rules. And so, in fairness, to bring it all together, you may now be thinking we started this part of the story about these LLCs, the KL2s, the Patient Zero with 2017 and Randy Shelton's registration. But we also haven't mentioned the name of Dennis Robertson in connection to KL2 Performance LLC in the way that he was with KL2 Aspire. Well, I told you that KL2 Performance LLC was suspended by the California Secretary of State in 2020, sat dormant for several years, neatly matching the timeline of Randy Shelton getting paid on the books by the Clippers.

[Amin]

Hasta la vista, baby.

[Pablo Torre]

Exactly right. Except just a few months after the Clippers finally terminated Shelton, July 2023, the event that sparked the whole lawsuit, something else happened that nobody seems to have noticed. Because on September 27, 2023, K2 Performance LLC was revived.

[Amin]

I'll be back.

[David Sampson]

God, that's good.

[Amin]

Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

And a new statement of information was filed with the California Secretary of State, a filing that named for the first time as its new manager, David who?

[David Sampson]

Dennis Robertson.

[Pablo Torre]

Pablo, with the same Palm beach address that's on the Kale to Aspire LLC paperwork and on Randy Shelton's contract. And if I am Wachtel Lipton, the NBA investigators, one question I'd personally want to know the answer to is why? Why would that happen? Why did he care about reviving a defunct LLC started by a former trainer, Randy Shelton, who Dennis was charging 10% of his salary? Why would he want to do this? Once Randy Shelton had left the Clippers, just asking questions. Why?

[Amin]

That's a good question.

[Pablo Torre]

Why?

[Amin]

Why would he, why would he do that?

[Pablo Torre]

By the end of September 2023, I am told Aspiration's relationship with the Clippers was finally officially terminated. This was later now than the team want to admit. We went over this timeline before, but I am told that the franchise's deal was over at least by the time the new NBA season started. And by then there was a full on federal investigation, ultimately involving the FBI, the Department of justice, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the sec. All of that was underway. Now, looking into Joe Sandberg and Aspiration for months. Meanwhile, a few months later, I mean in the basketball world, there was a new headline.

[Amin]

January 10, 2024, Kawhi Leonard signs three year, $153 million extension with Clippers.

[Pablo Torre]

Sources say three years, 153. Sounds like a lot of money. It is.

[Amin]

It is not quite what the maximum allowable salary for him would have been at the time.

[David Sampson]

9 million below.

[Pablo Torre]

Which is interesting. Why would Kawhi Leonard leave money on the table in a way that is totally antithetical to his entire ethos that we've covered extensively? Why would he do something so inexplicable, so conspicuous, given how Team Kawhi has behaved? In fact, it was so conspicuous that this was kind of the first thing that multiple NBA executives pointed out to me when we published our first episode on this whole thing six months ago. And so I've now been spending the last several months chasing down a number of pretty interesting tips about this moment in the timeline. All of which raises this question about what happened once the Clippers finally terminated the aspiration deal and still, according to the bankruptcy filing, had to deal with the fact that aspiration owed KL2Aspire LLC at least $7 million. Right. And so again, I don't know if our friends at Wachtel Lipton, the NBA's private YTU investigators, have been looking into this part, but for now, let's just keep scrolling through the California Secretary of State database because it means you'll notice that in the days before the Clippers announced Kawhi's submax extension, on January 10, 2024, a few new LLCs were born.

[Amin]

KL2 Content LLC, that was December 28, 2023, KL2riFC LLC, January 2, 2024 and KL2riFC Real Estate, January 2, 2024, January 10.

[Pablo Torre]

I will remind you all, 2024 was when that extension was signed. And unlike KL2Aspire LLC and KL2Performance LLC. The Patient Zero, KL2 Content LLC, KL2RFC LLC and KL2RAFC Real Estate LLC all remain active to this day. And you will be surely shocked to learn that the person who is listed as their manager on all these filings is a certain relative.

[David Sampson]

It starts with uncle and ends with.

[Amin]

Come with me if you want to live.

[Pablo Torre]

If I walked out Lipton I have questions about all of this.

[David Sampson]

I would just like to mention to you guys that starting LLCs is very common, having them with names that you can keep track of for what they're for. So you'd have an llc. If you want to put your house into an llc, which you should, it would be named after the people, maybe the house address. And the reason LLCs become dormant, also very common is it is a pain in the ass. All the filing requirements in New York, in Delaware or California, wherever you have the llc and if there's no activity you can let it go dormant. You don't pay the fees. But then when you want to get it back going, basically what you do is you revive it Terminator style and then you're allowed to use it again as the llc, a neurocomputer.

[Pablo Torre]

And all I am pointing out is that when I look at the dates here, the timeline, why did he start these LLC days ahead of his Submax contract extension? And why is it that KL2 Aspire LLC and KL2 Performance LLC Patient Zero are the only two of these LLC that are now non functional are now suspended. And these are questions that I simply would recommend that someone who had the power to compel people to sit down for an interview involved with the NBA might take interest in. And all of this as information is concerned brings us to another fun headline that I think is pretty cool. I mean this is from a couple.

[Amin]

Weeks ago Resurgent Clippers give Executive Lawrence Frank multi Year Contract Extension Comes to us via Joe Varden and Sam Amick of the athletic slash New York Times January 27, 2026 the LA Clippers and president of basketball operations Lawrence Frank agreed to a multi year contract extension, four league sources told the Athletic. Contract details were not disclosed, though the extension is believed to be for four years. The Athletic reported in December that Frank and his senior staff were on track for contract extensions. Extensions for other front office staff are still expected to be developed, per league sources.

[David Sampson]

I can totally understand. We stayed with our GM even when we stunk and so Ballmer may be comfortable with Frank. You know, Frank may know exactly where bodies are buried and the skeletons and you keep signing those GMs so that again, in and of itself there is loyalty between owners and gms. That can happen where you'd sign an extension to a guy where the results just aren't there.

[Amin]

So I know a lot of people are saying, well, of course the Clippers are playing a lot better. They didn't start their winning ways until December 20th. Like up until that point, the team was 6 and 21 on December 18th. So whenever that conversation started, it was not with the expectation that they would go on this miraculous run.

[Pablo Torre]

This was season one, two. Like horror show era flippers, there are.

[David Sampson]

Teams who keep their gm. When you have losing seasons, sure we did many times.

[Amin]

If you're being sued and if, yes, you're being investigated and you didn't know any of this, it would be pretty hard for me to say, you know, the guy who's responsible for doing all this behind my back, give him a couple more years just to make sure. Maybe he had a plan here. If I, if I knew, and I'm not gonna say hush money.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, hush. So I should say that when multiple NBA executives tell me is that they view Lawrence Frank's four year extension as, quote, unquote, Ballmer hush money.

[David Sampson]

And I didn't know that.

[Pablo Torre]

And so, and, and look, these are people observing it from the outside, right? So in fairness, again, maybe there's a chance LLCs are revived for fun. You send your president, who's at the center of all of this because you just really have faith in him and the timing just happens to be coincidentally.

[Amin]

Terrible and you're complicit whether there is something dastardly or not happening. Right. Maybe Steve Ballmer thinks we're just who won't leave him alone, but he thinks Lawrence Frank has done a good job throughout that. And these lawsuits and this investigation or.

[Pablo Torre]

All frivolous in nature, and I mean to that point, this is what Lawrence Frank told the Athletics law Murray just yesterday.

[David Sampson]

We haven't learned anything more than we have back in September. And to be honest with you, it doesn't impact anything we do. We know it's out there. We know at some point there'll be a decision made. We very much feel the same thing that we told you back in September, that we're on the right side of this. And then whenever they make the decision, they make the decision. But it really doesn't impact anything we do on a daily basis.

[Pablo Torre]

But before I let you guys go here, there is one more thing that I think people need to know about here as we do more due diligence. Because the whole reason we've been able to dive into aspiration is not just because of the bankruptcy filing which confirmed the existence of KL2 Aspire LLC as a creditor. It's also because there has been that full on federal investigation with the DOJ and the CFTC and the SEC which resulted in the FBI arresting Joe Sandberg and another one of aspirations board members too. And this helped lead to further questions and pressure and litigation. And just the other week, by the way, Joe Sandberg's long awaited sentencing hearing got rescheduled to the end of April just in time for the NBA playoffs. Fun. What Sandberg's lawyer who also represents Chauncey Billups in the NBA gambling scandal has.

[Amin]

Said Pablo Tori world's colliding, much like.

[Pablo Torre]

The Terminator universe, there's just a lot of interdimensional travel quote other matters may play out in the future. We'll see. End quote.

[David Sampson]

Well, you know, with the delayed sentencing, guess who's not talking to anyone at Wachtel?

[Aspiration Insider]

Who?

[Pablo Torre]

Joe. But here's the thing is that after a year of my reporting on this, what multiple sources at Aspiration now tell me is something even more interesting, which is that they believe that the reason the federal government got seriously involved in the case of the tree planting fraud and the NBA team is because there was at least one whistleblower, a government whistleblower from inside of Aspiration who went to the feds to report what they knew about alleged criminal activity by Joe Sandberg and others, presumably in writing and presumably under penalty of perjury. And so I have one more big question for NBA Commissioner Adam Silver and everyone involved in investigating this story, involved in thoroughly doing due diligence, including by the way, the multiple congressional offices pushing Silver to testify about the gambling scandal as well as the richest owner in sports under oath. And my question is if this aspiration whistleblower who tipped over that first domino of a federal criminal investigation exists, did they explicitly mention Steve Ballmer, an NBA salary cap circumvention to the government?

[Amin]

That's a good ass question because that.

[Pablo Torre]

Would feel like a smoking gun as close as we can get to one in this whole story if they want.

[David Sampson]

To come to a conclusion one way or the other. That's a question you have to ask and then get answered.

[Pablo Torre]

And if anyone can get to the bottom of that question, I do think it would change a certain declaration of innocence into something that sounds even more obviously like the opposite. Yeah.

[David Sampson]

Look, Dennis knows the rules. Kawhi knows the rules. Mitch Frankel knows the rules, and we know the rules.

[Pablo Torre]

Rules.

[David Sampson]

Is that a yes or a no, though?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[David Sampson]

We all know the rules.

[Pablo Torre]

And I would make an all be back joke at the end here, David, but I mean, already stepped on that.

[Amin]

Well, judgment day is inevitable.

[Pablo Torre]

You went T3 at the end.

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[Pablo Torre]

Rise of the Machines.

[Amin]

That one was not directed by James Cameron. Just. I don't believe so.

[David Sampson]

No.

[Amin]

Nor was Batman and Robin. We killed the dinosaurs. The Ice Age.

[Pablo Torre]

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out A Meadowlark Media production and I'll talk to you next time.

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[Amin]

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[Pablo Torre]

A big one you need to hear. Billions.

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[Pablo Torre]

Terms apply. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

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[Pablo Torre]

This season, we're spending time with the.

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[David Sampson]

We're proud Boricuas. And what does that mean? And we are still in the fight.

[Pablo Torre]

We're telling stories about champions from a.

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This is La Brega Campeones.

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[Pablo Torre]

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