Unlocking the State Secrets of College Football, with FOIAball's "King of the Bros"

Summary

Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: Unlocking the State Secrets of College Football, with FOIAball’s “King of the Bros”

Date: May 22, 2026
Host: Pablo Torre (The Athletic)
Guests: David Cavucci (FOIAball), Jess Matana

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Episode Overview

This episode plunges into the world of public records requests (FOIAs) and their surprisingly pivotal role in college football’s most bizarre, secretive, and revealing stories. With David Cavucci—creator of FOIAball and the infamous “King of the Bros”—and journalist/podcaster Jess Matana, Pablo Torre explores viral FOIA stunts, the legal and ethical lines of transparency, and how college sports power brokers and scandal-magnets get caught in the web of publicly accessible information. From playlist controversies to billionaire boosters and college coach conspiracies, the episode is a talkumentary that exposes both the absurd and consequential layers of America’s favorite collegiate pastime.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Meet the King of the Bros: Origin Story

• David Cavucci’s Journey: From “bro-journalism” at BroBible to launching FOIAball after being laid off, pursuing stories via public records (04:30)
• Going Viral: Early notoriety came from a FOIA request about Osama bin Laden’s pornography collection (05:00)
  • “I was working at a place called BroBible... only FOIA-ing Osama bin Laden stuff at BroBible.” – David (05:18)
  • “A bro asked the CIA about Osama bin Laden’s porn stash. The agency answered.” (05:25)
• Being Labeled: Media calling him “King of the Bros” (07:05)
  • “When something about you goes viral, you have no control over it.” – David (07:06)
• Revelation: Sometimes, the CIA is easier to get records from than a college athletic department (06:14)

2. Playlist Journalism: The Diana Rossini-Mike Vrabel FOIA

• The Story: Using FOIA to publish a Spotify playlist shared between NFL coach Mike Vrabel and reporter Diana Rossini, which went viral for how personal and (allegedly) embarrassing the song choices were (09:04)
• Public vs. Private: Raises questions about privacy, public records, and the porousness of digital life (11:26)
  • “...Spotify doesn’t need to be a public-facing social media app. Most people are not using it for that.” – Jess (11:46)
  • “People don’t know that their favorite app is being used as a social media platform... Venmo’s gotten a lot of college athletes in trouble.” – Pablo/Jess (11:59)
• Ethics and Backlash: David reflects on backlash for ‘invading privacy,’ and the journalistic argument for transparency (13:11)
  • “Public figures have sort of lost all right to privacy...they’re supposed to live up to certain standards.” – David (13:11)
• Impact: The playlist is as close to "dispositive proof" of a private relationship as can be found (13:41)

3. FOIA Inception: The Jordan Hudson Saga

• Jordan Hudson’s FOIA Frenzy: Belichick’s girlfriend files her own public records requests about her media coverage, including ones targeting email mentions of “girlfriend.” (18:50)
• Watching the Watchmen: Metanarrative where Hudson requests records about FOIA requests made about her, and even DMs David (19:57)
  • “You can request the requests. Yes, you can watch the Watchmen.” – David (19:57)
• Administration on Edge: UNC’s athletic department escalates Hudson’s requests to the highest levels, a rarity (21:29)
  • “Six people were informed that she was sending FOIAs, which is not standard.” – David (21:59)
• Media Critique: Belichick’s response to criticism—clips from his interview with Sean Hannity about being misrepresented by CBS (26:11)
  • “I thought the interview I had with them was done very deceptively. And I’ve asked for the transcript...they won’t give it to me.” – Bill Belichick (26:37)

4. Power and Paranoia: The World of College Football Boosters

• Billionaire Booster Culture: FOIA reveals sideline pass lists and the immense influence wielded by wealthy donors (31:32)
  • “There’s like Matthew McConaugheys plural...people who live on top of oil wells, I can only presume.” – Pablo (31:55)
• Opaque Laws: Many states exempt donor names from FOIA—David exposes Texas allowing transparency (32:23)
  • “For a million dollars given to the athletic department, you could get sideline passes to all Texas football home games for five years.” – David (32:55)
• Wild Stories Uncovered:
  • Billionaire donors with criminal allegations (arsonist car dealer, 35:16),
  • Exotic hunting lodge owners (Greystone Castle, 37:21),
  • Coaches leaving messages on military bombs (“Go Irish” – Charlie Weis, 38:13)

5. Fun and Absurdity: Making a Fake Coaches Poll Ballot (Live)

• Stunt Segment: Jess Matana calls the real phone line for the USA Today Coaches Poll and leaves a full Top 25 (42:40)
  • “This is Charlie Weis from the University of Notre Dame. Number one, Ohio State...” – Jess (43:09)
  • “I believe you’re the first woman to ever vote in the Coaches Poll.” – David (44:09)

6. Notable Moments and Running Jokes

• Recurring use of humor and irony—mocking the opacity of college sports, poking fun at playlist “violations,” paranoia about privacy, and the “King of the Bros” moniker.
• Jess's Les Mis guilt: “I deleted [my Spotify playlists] because I’m so paranoid people finding out how much I listen to the Les Mis soundtrack.” – Jess (12:43)
• “Go recruit some high schoolers.” – Jess to Pablo on conspiracies (29:25)
• “There’s so many levels to what rich people do that I have, like, no access to…” – Jess (39:26)

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Notable Quotes & Time Stamps

• FOIA as a Weapon:
  “I think one of the most important laws we have [for transparency] is FOIA.” — David (08:51)

• Digital Privacy:
  “Spotify doesn’t need to be a public-facing social media app... most people are not using it for that.” — Jess (11:46)

• Ethics of Public Interest:
  “Public figures have sort of lost all right to privacy... I don’t have any issue with it.” — David (13:11)

• On Billionaire Boosters:
  “There’s a level of booster where… they’re not famous, but secretly the money behind the entire operation.” — Jess (31:32)
  “For a million dollars… you get sideline passes to all Texas football home games for five years.” — David (32:55)

• FOIA Inception:
  “You can request the request.” — Jess (19:55)
  “You can watch the Watchmen.” — David (19:57)

• On Coaches’ Myths:
  “There’s a lot of illusions built up around a lot of public figures in this world, and it’s fun to shatter those.” — David (14:30)

• Jess’s Historic Coaches’ Poll “Vote”:
  “I believe you’re the first woman to ever vote in the Coaches Poll.” — David (44:09)

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Main Sections & Timestamps

• The Bro FOIA Origin & Osama bin Laden Stunt (04:30 – 07:23)
• Playlist Journalism & Privacy Ethics (09:04 – 13:41)
• Jordan Hudson Files FOIAs on Herself & Administrative Paranoia (18:50 – 21:59)
• Belichick, Media Critique, and Conspiracies (26:11 – 29:02)
• Billionaire Boosters: Who’s on the Sideline? (31:32 – 37:56)
• Absurd Wealth: Arsonists, Hunting Lodges, Bomb Messages (35:16 – 39:00)
• Stunt Call: Faking a Coaches Poll Ballot (42:40 – 44:19)

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Takeaways

• FOIA is one of the most underused and powerful tools for transparency in sports and public institutions, often exposing more than anyone anticipates—including the requesters.
• The web of digital privacy and public records is laughably thin in modern college sports—playlists, Venmo, and sideline passes can be investigative goldmines (or major embarrassments).
• Wealth and influence in college sports operate behind multiple layers of secrecy, but sometimes all it takes is a savvy reporter to lift the veil.
• The line between serious investigative journalism and pure absurdity in college football stories is gloryously blurred—thanks in no small part to the access FOIA and social platforms enable.
• At its heart, the episode is an ode to curiosity, skepticism, and the sport of outsmarting secrecy—whether it’s government agencies, football coaches, or billionaire boosters.

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For complete context, listen to the full episode—which is equal parts rigor and hilarity.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

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[David Cavucci]

I just got asked to join like the Twitter monetization program and it asked for so much information. I was like, I can't do this.

[Pablo Torre]

Like you're like, I know how records

[David Cavucci]

can be used against you, like connecting to Twitter through my bank accounts. Like we can see your balances in recent transactions. It's like, no, no please. I don't like that at all.

[Pablo Torre]

But the downside is that the next time you have a post that has 19 million views on it, it will not be you can make $6.

[David Cavucci]

I did the math. I think it might have been like 120 had I been able to get it, which is, you know, I'm starting my own business here. I'll take anything I can get, even sort of evil dollars from Elon.

[Pablo Torre]

Jess Matana did you know of David Cavucci before the Diana Rossini Spotify playlist?

[Jess Matana]

I did. I've been following his newsletter, subscribing to his newsletter for a long time now.

[David Cavucci]

Oh, thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, Foible is one of the all time great sports newsletter ideas I'd

[David Cavucci]

been kicking around in my head for a while. And like any good journalist, I got laid off and just figured now was the time to try my own thing. So I was able to hit the ground running because I had a lot of energy behind it. But it's, it's still very new. It's only been publishing for eight months. So I'm very thrilled by the response so far.

[Pablo Torre]

And was it therefore cruel when the thing that everybody broadly knew you for, who isn't at this table was like, you're the Diana Rossini Spotify playlist guy.

[David Cavucci]

Not necessarily. Because the last viral foy I did was pretty. I don't think my parents were too happy about that one.

[Pablo Torre]

Wait a minute, hold on. What, what was the last one that you did?

[David Cavucci]

Uh, if you just Google David Kavuchi Osama bin Laden, which I do bi weekly.

[Jess Matana]

Wait a second. The Post called you a quote bro?

[David Cavucci]

Yes, I. I was working at a place called Pro Bible at the time, which is still somehow one of the

[Pablo Torre]

only foiaing Osama bin Laden stuff at Bro Bible.

[David Cavucci]

Yeah, and wait, but we.

[Jess Matana]

I'll just read the headline now. It does kind of track. It says, a bro ask the CIA about Osama bin Laden's porn stash.

[Pablo Torre]

The agency answered June 10, 2015.

[David Cavucci]

So actually I sent that request May 26, so it's almost the 11 year anniversary of that.

[Jess Matana]

Oh, that's cute. Happy anniversary.

[David Cavucci]

And eventually I was part of some appeals that were bought and we got. We didn't get the pornography collection. We got the record, so it's sort of on the.

[Jess Matana]

You didn't get the collection? Interesting.

[David Cavucci]

No, but they did release a lot of his laptop files where it revealed he was like watching Tom and Jerry during the day and stuff like that. So I have my very first FOIA I ever sent was the CIA and I got like, results. So I think that's a pretty good.

[Pablo Torre]

Laden was into animals, anime.

[David Cavucci]

I. I don't know. Is Tom and Jerry anime?

[Pablo Torre]

I think it's the original.

[Jess Matana]

Was it easier or harder to foia the CIA than college athletic departments?

[David Cavucci]

I've only sent one to the CIA and I've had 100 success rate, so I'll go with easier.

[Jess Matana]

That seems like a tracks.

[Pablo Torre]

So just to put a button on the Osama bin Laden born stash, we don't know specifically what Osama bin Laden was into as a matter of genre.

[David Cavucci]

No, he's dead. So you're free to speculate.

[Jess Matana]

Well, do you want to speculate? Go ahead.

[Pablo Torre]

I think he's into extensive anime porn.

[David Cavucci]

I think one of the reasons I heard back so quickly was because of how I asked. I was like, you know, he's the most wanted man in the world. Like, we need to know, like, what was going on in his mind, you know, while he's being hunted by Predator drones and US forces. So, like, what, what got him off? I think I wrote that in my actual request.

[Pablo Torre]

Hold on, I have, I have another headline. This is from Mother Jones. CIA tells King of the Bros he can't see Bin Laden's porn stache.

[Jess Matana]

King of the Bros.

[David Cavucci]

I had put that just in my Twitter bio. Like I'm learning so much. Well, 12 years ago. And you know, when something about you goes viral, you have no control over it. So people are just Putting they like, you know, declaratively stated that I was king of the bros. And you know, who was I to object at the time? I was.

[Pablo Torre]

Your highness, excuse me for not properly introducing you, but this is, this is the thing that I have been bonding with you about in real life before. You did publish Diana Rossini's Spotify playlist with Mike Frabel called.

[Jess Matana]

Which feels like a personal violation or

[Pablo Torre]

great journalism because Freedom of Information act requests. FOIA requests are of course the sort of etymology of FOIA ball.

[David Cavucci]

Yeah. So it was. The Freedom of Information act was a federal law started by one very cranky senator who was upset about over classification of the Department of Defense. And he spent I think about 10 years trying to get this bill passed. And then every state in the US adopted laws after that federal legislation was passed. And the idea is that governments derive their power from the people in democracy. So they have a right to see everything you do. Now it was sort of written in the 1960s, so the idea was you would just walk to the mayor's office and say, let me see the plans for the new park. Let me see the construction schedule for the next couple of weeks.

[Jess Matana]

It's very quaint.

[David Cavucci]

Yeah. In the digital age that's really metastasized. And state institutions have struggled to keep up. Cause they get lots of requests. An average school gets like 1,000 to 2,000 a year. They usually only have one to two to people responding to them. And those are usually great people who are trying to do their best. But the idea is that they can't hide anything from you. So I believe it's. Kentucky even has a clause in its state laws that say we must release records even if they're embarrassing to the officials involved. So the idea is that transparency is extremely important. I think it is one of the most important laws we have.

[Pablo Torre]

But the idea of there is information out there, deeply invasively personal information out there that has been published. It takes us to this. December 19, 2022.

[David Cavucci]

Actually, one of your producers hit me up to look into it. He was like, can you see what you can find? And instead of sharing that with you and we're going to get into an actual episode, we tried to hire David.

[Pablo Torre]

Like a bounty hunter.

[David Cavucci]

Exactly. And I just fired it out and I felt kind of bad. I was like, I should have passed this along. I should have saved it so we could turn into a whole episode. But it kind of blew up.

[Pablo Torre]

So there's a four game Titans losing streak. Mike Vrabel was the coach. Diana Rossini Makes a playlist in which it is shared with a user who is named Mike.

[Jess Matana]

The music here, it's not good songs, which I think was why this took off. If it had been a really good playlist, I'm not sure if 19 million people are invested in it. But also, like, if I made a playlist for someone and it became public, no matter who that person is, I would be deeply embarrassed about it because I have a terrible taste in music as well.

[David Cavucci]

Cut my life into pieces. This is my last resort. Suffocation.

[Pablo Torre]

Did you have Papa Roach? Last Resort, which is the tenth song on this.

[David Cavucci]

No, I did not comment on the quality of the music because a lot of people were instantly just. They were calling it garbage. Terrible. The worst playlist I'd ever seen. And there were songs on there that were on my wedding must playlist, so I just zipped my mouth shut. You can't.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah, you have.

[David Cavucci]

I can, but I wasn't going to tweet that out.

[Pablo Torre]

Then. Was Pump it Louder by Tiesta on the Black Eyed Peas.

[David Cavucci]

No, no. We played Raise your glass by Pink.

[Jess Matana]

Oh, God.

[David Cavucci]

I enjoyed my wedding. I'm sorry. You didn't.

[Jess Matana]

Well, I wasn't invited, but maybe this is going to go on the do not playlist on my upcoming wedding DJ set list.

[David Cavucci]

Would any of these songs make it on your wedding?

[Pablo Torre]

God of Thund.

[Jess Matana]

Well, I will say, as a Steelers fan, Renegade may be. May be played at the list.

[David Cavucci]

Okay.

[Jess Matana]

It's what the Steelers play in the third quarter of every home game.

[David Cavucci]

Variable played what, a year with the Steelers after he left the Patriots. Okay. Yeah, I think so. People are pointing out that Renegade was on there, but it was shared with the username Mike. And after it went viral, the user Mike changed the name to Tycar, which is a portmanteau of Mike Rabel's two sons. So, you know, a lot of people were like, maybe it's not him. Maybe it's just a random mic that she shared it with. But pretty confident after that.

[Jess Matana]

I mean, to your point about how. How invasive some of the apps are. Well, no, not you. I mean, Spotify doesn't need to be a public facing social media app. Like, most people are not using it for that. So the fact that, like, someone who is a public figure could have a searchable database of what they listen to, to me, is like, I wonder if these people even knew that someone could find this.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, one of the great. And this is something we've done on this show separately. We did it with the NBA gambling investigation. That we did. People don't know that their favorite app is being used as a social media platform.

[Jess Matana]

Right?

[Pablo Torre]

Venmo.

[Jess Matana]

Yes.

[David Cavucci]

Don't. Don't talk about Venmo.

[Pablo Torre]

That's.

[David Cavucci]

No, I know.

[Pablo Torre]

It's too good. It's too good to check everything through the Venmo user base and be like, oh, they forgot.

[Jess Matana]

Venmo's gotten a lot of college athletes in trouble because they've put, you know, stupid things on Venmo with names and titles that they shouldn't have put on Venmo and been investigated over it. So.

[Pablo Torre]

And yet I would say that having Cuff it by Beyonce. As the first song on this playlist between Mike Gravel and Daniel, probably more embarrassing than.

[Jess Matana]

Well, it's a good song, that one. I.

[Pablo Torre]

But the implication, man.

[Jess Matana]

Right. I do want to ask you, though, because I.

[David Cavucci]

So I'm trying to see if I can find your Spotify playlist.

[Jess Matana]

I deleted it.

[David Cavucci]

Okay.

[Jess Matana]

Because I'm so paranoid. People finding out how much I listen to the Les Mis soundtrack. I mean, it would really.

[David Cavucci]

That's fantastic. I do that all the time.

[Jess Matana]

It would shock people. That and heated rivalry. Like, it's just going back and forth. But I followed you for a while now, and I saw a lot of people were, like, just accusing you of, you know, engaging in. In smutty. Like, this isn't fair. Why are you doing this? This is, you know, an invasion of privacy. And you had a response to that. So I'm curious if you have any more on that.

[David Cavucci]

No, I mean, I understand that argument, I think, but especially in this day and age, public figures have sort of lost all right to privacy. You know, they all make so much money. They're very famous. You know, they're part of a social contract where they're supposed to live up to certain standards, even if they don't. So I don't have any sort of issue with it. And, you know, there are. There are probably things I want to publish, but I didn't think that was, like, I don't understand how that could have impacted her. She was already accused of having an affair. It's been going on for a long time.

[Pablo Torre]

This was the thing. In your defense, and as someone who resembles the. The target of the criticism that you just described, which is a fair point to raise for any journalist, this playlist was both hilarious and also, I think, as close to dispositive as it got in this story. Like, the reason it went viral was not just because this is so funny. It's how the else. Do you Spin a relationship at the very least, that isn't deeply personal in any other way other than man. These people really did have some sort of connection.

[David Cavucci]

One of the things I'm really fascinated by is sort of the myths of coaches is, you know, omnipotent beings, sort of super hard, dedicated workers who are, you know, always on top of everything. Always, you know, one step ahead.

[Jess Matana]

Men of integrity.

[David Cavucci]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Kings of bros.

[David Cavucci]

Showing that. Showing that that's not exactly the case. I think there's a lot of illusions built up around a lot of public figures in this world, and it's fun to shatter those as best I can.

[Jess Matana]

Also, the digital literacy aspect of it that I think is. You could say it's generational, but I do think it impacts anyone in any generation that you don't realize how you're being tracked across these apps.

[Pablo Torre]

And we should say that for those not familiar with your oeuvre, my liege, Bramble and Rossini. Not the first bit of playlist journalism that you've done.

[David Cavucci]

Yes. And this was just a couple weeks apart, I think. I was on a Spotify searching kit. Sometimes I'll find sites that I like to sort of dig into and look at a lot of people. But Lane Kiffin, when he was run out of. Well, not run out of Ole Miss, he left Ole Miss and was also run out. A lot of his Pilates instructors and hot yoga teachers were sort of burning him on TikTok after the fact. And I don't know why I started searching this one, but I found a Pilates playlist that he listens to from a studio in Baton Rouge. The Pilates playlist was great. I listened to it, like, three times in a row while I was writing an article about it. So his stuff was much better than. Although he didn't come up with it. He just stole it from an instructor.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah, and it did seem like the Pilates community coming after him was what really hurt him the most in the midst of that debacle.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, hold on, just the username here. MLKiffen.

[David Cavucci]

Yes. We did deduce today that he is

[Jess Matana]

legally Monty Lane Kiffin, which is not what his Wikipedia page says.

[Pablo Torre]

No, this is the fact checking phase. Wikipedia says that he is lain Monte Kiffin, and what you're here to report is that that is inaccurate.

[David Cavucci]

Yes. And as he is going, you know, being persecuted in the media right now, we should note his initials are mlk,

[Pablo Torre]

Son of Monte Kiffin. Making him, I believe, MLK junior.

[David Cavucci]

I don't think anyone could quibble with

[Jess Matana]

that at the very least, he's MK Ultra. The more famous of the MK is the Monty Kiffins.

[Pablo Torre]

Just on the playlist. Jess, like, you're. Are you a Pilates person? Not to profile you.

[Jess Matana]

It is spot on. Accurate profiling, though. Yes. I go to Pilates, like, six days a week.

[Pablo Torre]

And the playlist strikes you as what?

[Jess Matana]

You know, there's a lot of terrible Pilates playlists out there. I've been subjected to listening to many of them. This one was not bad.

[Pablo Torre]

I just like the idea that Jess is like, could we get a little more Les Mis?

[Jess Matana]

I mean, if you did a remix to One Day More in Pilates, I think it would really get the group going.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. I want to stretch out empty chairs at empty tables.

[Jess Matana]

Oh, no, don't make me cry.

[David Cavucci]

I had a spin instructor who always played like, techno remix of Defying Gravity as the last song. It was. It was great. I loved it. It came on. I played it a lot, but it always went, yeah.

[Jess Matana]

Oh, I love that.

[David Cavucci]

Where does the drop come in when she defies gravity?

[Pablo Torre]

Are you.

[Jess Matana]

Are you kidding? There's like. Have you seen the movie? There's like 10 drops in the. They. They stretched that song out so much. They were like, we know the sequel is not going to be that good, so we're going to make Defying Gravity a 20 minute long scene in the first. Wicked. Wow.

[David Cavucci]

I'll leave the singing to y'. All.

[Jess Matana]

His Excellency does not partake in such shenanigans.

[David Cavucci]

I have my court. I have my court jesters here for me.

[Jess Matana]

Oh, God, we're jester maxing.

[Pablo Torre]

So the thing that brought us together originally, before I tried to hire you as a bounty hunter to get good information on Diana Rossini and that whole story was, who else but Jordan Hudson?

[Jess Matana]

Oh, God.

[Pablo Torre]

That is the appropriate reaction.

[David Cavucci]

I find her charming.

[Jess Matana]

I would like to stay. For the record, I had no idea what we were going to talk about when I came into the office today, but so far, two for two on guesses.

[David Cavucci]

We have some surprises planned, though.

[Jess Matana]

Oh, I love a surprise.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, the thing about Jordan as a character in a story of Public Records is that she is not so different from you and I, it turns out.

[David Cavucci]

No. She has been submitting public records to unc. She sent four in December and two in April trying to track down all the school's communications, basically about her. She's looked for the term girlfriend. She's looked for communications with cbs.

[Pablo Torre]

Jess, could you please read the first Bullet Point?

[Jess Matana]

Yes. It's a request and it says Correspondence received or sent. That includes the terms Hudson, Jordan Belichick, girlfriend in the subject or body of the email.

[Pablo Torre]

Insofar as we are also people who file public records requests of North Carolina, which I have done, which we have done as a show here, and you have done separately at Foible, what happens is you realize as you're getting these requests, the paperwork back, that someone else is also doing the same thing, except she is the girlfriend of the head football coach who is the highest paid employee in the state of North Carolina, which I will dare say is an unprecedented dynamic.

[Jess Matana]

How many states do, or schools, I guess, do let you see requests?

[David Cavucci]

So some of them are very easy to see. Iowa, North Carolina, Oregon. But you can request. They're public records themselves.

[Jess Matana]

You can request the request.

[David Cavucci]

Yes, you can watch the watchmen.

[Pablo Torre]

North Carolina receives a public records request or a series of them from not only David Cavucci and Pablo Torre finds out, but Jordan Hudson. How do we understand their response to Jordan to be.

[David Cavucci]

So I. Then this sort of becomes a Russian nesting doll where I requested all the requests that Jordan had sent to see what she got back.

[Jess Matana]

She requested your request of her request?

[David Cavucci]

She did. And then she sent me a little DM just waving, and I was like, that's correct. Turtles all the way down here.

[Pablo Torre]

But on Instagram, she DM'd you.

[David Cavucci]

She DM'd me on Twitter. She followed me on Instagram. And she has not watched any of my stories since she followed me, which I.

[Pablo Torre]

We're offended.

[Jess Matana]

But do you post good stories?

[David Cavucci]

I don't post much, but I do have a dog and I post photos of her. So, like, I think she would appreciate it maybe. Do you think she's a dog person?

[Jess Matana]

Well, I don't know.

[David Cavucci]

Oh, she's a. She had a parrot. She's a parrot. Oh, she's a bird person.

[Pablo Torre]

David is the only person who knows more about Jordan Hudson than me.

[David Cavucci]

Only because I have wanted to impress you and just text you the randomest things.

[Pablo Torre]

Just the idea that she has a parrot. I'm like, I got scooped on the parrot.

[David Cavucci]

She's. She was posted in R Birds a long time ago. I'm not.

[Pablo Torre]

What on the bird subreddit.

[David Cavucci]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

So she sends you a message basically saying, so that you're aware fully I am watching you.

[David Cavucci]

That's what I figured it was because I replied and I said, hey, you know, I hope you haven't been hacked or something. That's, you know, I assume this is legit. But then she never wrote back, which is a little sad.

[Pablo Torre]

And so when you request the requests, of the requests, Carolina response is, I presume, saying, for sake, guys.

[David Cavucci]

I feel I have probably gotten that response from some colleges. But they did seem to be keeping tabs on the fact that she was sending them. The head of communications for the athletic department was cc'd on them. She then sent that to Brandon Faber, who's like Belichick's PR man, his chief of staff, which I love to imagine poor Belichick's chief of staff having to decide whether to go tell him. Oh, God. Yeah, it went to the AD and the AD in waiting, and it also went to the top communications official. So six people were informed that she was sending FOIAs, which is not standard

[Pablo Torre]

for all of the FOIAs.

[David Cavucci]

I don't think so. I haven't requested everyone else's FOIAs to see that. But, like, in communications, I've seen. No, it doesn't seem like they're making it to the highest levels of the school.

[Pablo Torre]

The particular topics that seem to be animating Jordan Hudson's inquisition, it seems to still go back to the interview on television that broke the story wide open for, like, the mainstream, which is that CBS interview and her interactions with the network. Jordan was a constant presence during our interview.

[David Cavucci]

How did you guys meet?

[Jess Matana]

Not talking about this?

[David Cavucci]

No, no.

[Pablo Torre]

It's a topic neither one of them is comfortable commenting on. What in the records request sort of indicated the CBS stuff. How obvious was it?

[David Cavucci]

So Jordan was requesting emails between the university and a producer at cbs, and there's nothing there. You know, most people are just doing their job. They're asking about interviews. There wasn't UNC wasn't, like, emailing surreptitiously, like, please ask about the relationship. Please blow this up. So in all the requests she's gotten back, I haven't found anything that she could use or be interesting. It's just sort of very basic stuff.

[Jess Matana]

But also just to state the obvious, like, I can put myself in the shoes of a television producer, having done that before. If I was up to some nefarious business with an end goal in sight, I'm not saying CBS was. I wouldn't be putting that over public communication either. So you'd have to be both complicit in wanting to make her look bad, but also careless enough to put it over an email that someone like you could find that out via a FOIA request.

[Pablo Torre]

It is unlikely that there would be some, again, to borrow the language of our time, some smoking gun, a paper trail. Paper trail that has Aha. Everyone was colluding against us, me and Bill, or at least me, Jordan Hudson. It's unlikely that there would be that sort of evidence. But the attempt to make sure, the attempt to find out, I both relate to and find so fascinating because, okay,

[Jess Matana]

so we're like the scene in Austin Powers where Dr. Evil's talking to Austin Powers and he's like, we're not so different, you and I.

[Pablo Torre]

Remember when I told you we're not so different, you and I? We're not so different, you and I. See, I did say that.

[Jess Matana]

But it's you and Jordan Hudson.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right.

[Jess Matana]

Okay, I get where we're going here.

[David Cavucci]

After stories about her doing. After my stories about her doing public records requests blew up, she responded to, I think Stuart Mandel tweeted about it, and she said, oh, so it's only fantastic when the athletic does it. I replied and said, no, I think it's great that you're doing this. I think it's very interesting. I love it. Yeah. I would love to know why, though. Like, what do you think is out there? And maybe, you know, for a lot of people who are new to it, you do think there's a smoking gun. You know, when I first started my career, I figured I could get everything. And you sort of have to learn how to State employees work, how they communicate, what platforms they use. And so it takes a little learning. But she's. She's getting there. I wouldn't count. I wouldn't count her out.

[Pablo Torre]

Are you offering to tutor Jordan Hudson in public records requests? Why not? Teacher?

[David Cavucci]

The problem, why a lot of records offices are overworked is that a lot of corporations use it to get contract info, to get better, make more competitive bids, get information, you know, that can lead to a better profit. Journalists don't use it as much as you would think.

[Pablo Torre]

Correct.

[David Cavucci]

But I do believe anyone can send a FOIA request, and I think anyone should. So I sure, if she is listening to this, I will give her my Intro to Public Records seminar. It's about 60 minutes. I can teach her how to get exactly what she wants.

[Pablo Torre]

And so the question that I have now is, okay, so Jordan Hudson is doing this over here. And is Bill Belichick in on these requests? Does he have a sense that this is even happening? Is he supportive of this? And we don't have the evidence that suggests one way or the other in the records that he would be.

[David Cavucci]

No.

[Pablo Torre]

But we do have, from earlier this week, an interview that he gave Bill Belichick, gave Sean Hannity, the king of Fox News. And it sort of expresses a certain level of perhaps media criticism as well, like cbs. I, I was stunned at how horribly you were treated. I couldn't believe it.

[Bill Belichick]

I couldn't believe it either.

[Pablo Torre]

I was stunned. I hope you saw him.

[Bill Belichick]

Well, you know, as we've seen recently, there have been more editing problems and they go back to over a couple years, multiple examples of editing and interview process and all that. You know, I thought that the interview I had with him was done very deceptively. And I've asked for the transcript from him and they won't give it to me. They've done that with other others. I'm not really sure what that policy is.

[Pablo Torre]

You can have the transcript. I'll give it to you. Well, go ahead. I didn't let you finish. Yeah.

[Bill Belichick]

So kind of confused about their, some of the things that they say they are, but I don't, I don't really see them living up to the trust that they, that they talk about.

[Pablo Torre]

And on Tuesday, incidentally, Jordan Hudson promoted this same clip of Bill Belichick talking to Sean Hannity on her Instagram stories.

[Jess Matana]

Can you imagine listening to an hour of that? Like the two charisma less individuals that I've ever listened to, my God, in

[Pablo Torre]

a wood paneled billiards hall.

[David Cavucci]

Yes.

[Jess Matana]

Like a smoky cigar lounge.

[Pablo Torre]

And I think it's worth reminding people that the brain trust here, the inner circle of Bill Belichick, part of the reason why I've been again, both like trying to be self aware but also so serious in my embrace of this stupid story, is because he is the highest paid employee in the state of North Carolina. And he has these two advisors that are so, I think essential to understanding how this archetype of how to live in public has been turned inside out. One of them, Jordan Hudson, the other one, if you're wondering like how conspiratorial is this inner circle, the other one happens to be Mike Lombardi, who is,

[David Cavucci]

I learned, a JFK assassination truther. And I don't mean that in a derogatory sense. He just does not believe the official narrative. And he's gone on the Solving JFK podcast twice. In one appearance, he did talk about how the media is spinning a narrative against the truth, which I think goes to speak a lot to his mindset.

[Mike Lombardi]

The media creates a narrative and that narrative will never go away because that's what the media wants to create. And part of the attraction for me for this case is this never ending desire by our media to Continue with the narrative when they know it's not true. That's who resonates with me the most. Why I'm fascinated with this because they're a broader issue than just who did it.

[Jess Matana]

Now I'm Dr. Evil looking at Mike Lombardi. I'm like, we're not so different, you and I.

[Pablo Torre]

The general, the highest general manager in college football and Jess Matana. Overlapping Venn diagram. When it comes to jfk, JFK assassination,

[David Cavucci]

conspiracies as the media. Now, why have you been telling us that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone?

[Pablo Torre]

What I'm finding out today, Jess, is that I killed jfk. Oh, we did it.

[Jess Matana]

You shouldn't say that on camera.

[Pablo Torre]

Can we cut that?

[David Cavucci]

We can clip it.

[Jess Matana]

My reaction to that is, man, go recruit some high schoolers.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. The suspicious opening you should be obsessed with is the transfer portal.

[Bill Belichick]

Sir,

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[Jess Matana]

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[Pablo Torre]

The other reason Jess I wanted to have David on is because when it comes to the money in college sports, it's been my goal to put a human face on it. And so you've been on the sidelines of college football games and surrounded by all of these boosters of some amount of wealth, I can only presume and I have wondered who the are these people?

[Jess Matana]

Yeah, there's a level of booster where it is a Person who is maybe well known in their industry, but they're not like a celebrity, famous person. And so everyone will be paying attention to, like the former athlete who will be on the sideline or the celebrity on the sideline. But then there's like the country's richest man over here that no one really recognizes but is secretly the money behind the entire operation.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. There's like Matthew McConaughey's plural. They're like T. Boon Pickens is. He's just sort of like, you know, people who live on top of oil wells, I can only presume. But how do we actually find out who is on these sidelines in this era in which Mike Lombardi, by the way. Yes. Was going to Saudi Arabia to consider, can we get money from over there? Who are the people in America that we can actually put a face and a name to?

[David Cavucci]

So a lot of states have exceptions for donors to public universities. You can't get their names, which I think is a little absurd, because they're funneling wealth into these schools. And with that comes a lot of influence. And these are places that still should be operated for the benefit of the public good. So I think you should know who gives money to that. So I was recently, I got some documents back from Texas covering some communications with their old Nil collective. And they had mentioned that for a million dollars given to the athletic department, you could get sideline passes to all Texas football home games for five years.

[Pablo Torre]

Doing the math on that. So a million dollars every home game for five years.

[David Cavucci]

It's actually not that bad. If you have it, it's a good deal.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah, you just gotta. You know, I like.

[Pablo Torre]

We're just at the point in college sports where it's like, that's a steal.

[David Cavucci]

Yeah. So what I wound up requesting recently from the University of Texas was a list of everyone who had gotten sideline passes to the games. And that was not protected under Texas public records law. So I was able to see that at an average Texas game. You know, their last home game against Texas A and M, there's four billionaires there, you know, two people in oil, one in, I believe, real estate, and the guy who married into the Pace Picante family who then salsa again. Yes. He divorced his wife and bought her out for $90 million and then sold the company for a billion a couple years later.

[Jess Matana]

And like, worth noting, now more than ever, these people do play a more direct hand in the success of their universities that they supported of their football programs than in years past, I would say. And I Would also add to that you're a virgin Virginia Tech alum.

[David Cavucci]

We have no billionaires.

[Jess Matana]

James Franklin, though, was the Penn State head coach and part of the shock of him being fired mid season was how much his buyout was going to be. And so these schools say, well, this buyout money will not come from our, our university or from our athletic budget. We'll have these private donors. We won't really say who's doing it. And if you are around the university or, or you know, work in media around the university, maybe you'll know who it is or, or hear who it might be. But like these are not things that they publicly advertise where they'll say this bo paying for the Franklin buyout.

[Pablo Torre]

Endowed buyout.

[Jess Matana]

Exactly.

[Pablo Torre]

It used to be right, like you'd put your name on a library. Now kind of the ultimate mark of like being a mover and shaker is you're one of these people on the sidelines who is funding stuff that enables in this case the University of Texas to be.

[David Cavucci]

Aidan for.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, to be. To be aided for and still claiming we are the cream of the crop in college sports, which Texas does believe about itself and what they sell about themselves.

[David Cavucci]

And the numbers are pretty astounding. I think AL.com recently just started that the University of Texas brought in $168 million in donations just to its athletic program last year.

[Pablo Torre]

So who is on the list that gets access to the sidelines at the University of Texas?

[Jess Matana]

Other than Salsa Air, one of my

[David Cavucci]

favorites that I found was a the owner of I believe eight car dealerships in the Austin area, which the Austin Business Journal said brought in like $700 million in revenue last year, which is wild. I didn't realize car dealerships were, I knew they were generated a lot of money. I didn't realize it was that much. But he gave a million dollars to the university a couple years ago, not to the athletics department but directly to the school. And he was on the list of people who'd received sideline passes. But he's also currently on trial for allegedly burning down several businesses in the Austin area.

[News Reporter (Austin Business Journal)]

Four fires in three months. Fire investigators say one man is behind them all. 75 year old Dorsey Brian Hardiman is the owner of Continental Automotive Group, which operates several car dealerships in Texas. During all four fires, Hardiman's Mercedes Benz SUV was seen on the properties. Fire investigators say they were all set by gasoline and striked matches for me

[Pablo Torre]

to advise how to arson. But leaving allegedly your Mercedes Benz SUV at the scene of Each of those

[Jess Matana]

stories, especially when you have access to other cars.

[David Cavucci]

Oh, I didn't even think about that.

[Pablo Torre]

Wow.

[David Cavucci]

Wow.

[Pablo Torre]

There's a burnt orange joke there somewhere. I don't know where it is. Just. Just pretend that like I nailed it.

[Jess Matana]

Okay.

[David Cavucci]

I reached out to the University of Texas and they didn't respond. But I. I did find photos of him like on the foundation website at a game recently.

[Pablo Torre]

And so, yeah, all I can cite, I suppose, is this email from 2024 that Brian Hardiman sent to the Austin Business Journal in which he denied involvement and his attorney for the record, did not respond to requests that you, David, had sent him.

[Jess Matana]

What's the biggest reason that there's so much privacy granted for these people?

[Pablo Torre]

Maybe the world shouldn't know that. What I do is I own and operate a hunting lodge in the state of Texas that allows me to facilitate the killing of exotic wildlife.

[David Cavucci]

Yes, that's another billionaire on the list. And according to Forbes, he is co owner of the Greystone Castle. It's not just a hunting lodge. It is a castle in the middle of nowhere, Texas where you can hunt ibex and impela and springbok.

[Pablo Torre]

This castle, this Greystone Castle sporting Club. The website Texas hospitality in an extraordinary setting. We are an Orvis endorsed wing shooting lodge which is clearly a thing. And your bird hunting trips can include dove, quail, pheasant, Hungarian partridge, duck and turkey. Combine any of these hunts with our five star rated lodging and you have a hunting trip fit for a king.

[Jess Matana]

King of the bros.

[David Cavucci]

If they wanted to chase me for the work I'm doing, you know, like if they want to give me, like

[Pablo Torre]

if they want to hunt, I've not

[David Cavucci]

volunteer that turnaround is fair play.

[Pablo Torre]

What we should be doing.

[David Cavucci]

I don't know if I'm gonna be allowed in Texas after this, so.

[Pablo Torre]

Or on R birds.

[David Cavucci]

I did recently find some messages that former head coaches wrote on bombs to Osama bin Laden. All roads Charlie. Speaking of Notre Dame, Charlie Weiss wrote, you will lose. Go Irish.

[Jess Matana]

Wait, he like wrote it on a bomb?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Jess Matana]

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand how one.

[David Cavucci]

So they did a tour like of military bases in the Middle East.

[Pablo Torre]

Charlie Weis wrote decided schematic advantage on a bomb.

[Jess Matana]

You guys just love your Patriots head coaches on this show.

[David Cavucci]

It's.

[Pablo Torre]

It's. I can't. Patriots coaches in general referring to the New England Patriots coaching.

[Jess Matana]

He wrote it on a. You can write on bombs.

[David Cavucci]

Yeah, like when you're you. When you're touring like US military, they let people write like, they don't let. Like they don't let Pablo write.

[Jess Matana]

They're not gonna let you do it.

[Pablo Torre]

It's like. It's like a message in a bottle. But the. Also the exact opposite.

[Jess Matana]

Go, go Irish.

[David Cavucci]

Yeah, go Irish.

[Jess Matana]

It's a Catholic school, dude. What are you doing writing on a bottle?

[Pablo Torre]

You wrote go Irish.

[Jess Matana]

I don't think Pope Leo would have approved if I didn't go Irish.

[Pablo Torre]

On a bomb, he wrote go Irish, but really deserved an asterisk that said America.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah. I was almost like, wait, the Irish have.

[David Cavucci]

What if he was like, his last thoughts were like, what did I do to the Irish?

[Jess Matana]

There's so many levels to what rich people do that I have like, no access to. Like, shooting springboks, writing on bombs. I mean, this is just like an unfathomable pastime. Like, I really don't.

[Pablo Torre]

I have nothing. I got nothing on this. Sound more broke.

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[Jess Matana]

Hey, everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, no.

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Me to a human, him to a bird.

[David Cavucci]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

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Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

[David Cavucci]

Liberty.

[Jess Matana]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

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[Pablo Torre]

As Jess wonders, how do these people live behind closed doors? How do these. How do these coaches, what are they doing? And how do they wield their power? It brings us to something that Jess is absolutely in the dark about. And frankly, I am kind of, too. Except that. David, one of the things you have discovered is a phone number that I want us to dial from inside of the studio because I think Jess Matana has the ability to make history.

[Jess Matana]

Me?

[David Cavucci]

Yes.

[Jess Matana]

How so?

[Pablo Torre]

Because, David, we asked Jess to prepare one thing specifically. Well, 25 things, actually.

[Jess Matana]

You guys asked me to do a top 25 college football ranking in May.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, it's because we value your expertise.

[David Cavucci]

Yeah, I mean, we love to talk, you know, teams here. Beth's futures. Like this is a real deal sports podcast.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right.

[David Cavucci]

Who you got this year?

[Pablo Torre]

We're doing sports, obviously.

[Jess Matana]

How did you get this phone number?

[David Cavucci]

This was from some emails ECU's Blake Harrell was sending.

[Pablo Torre]

This is an actual call we're making right now.

[Jess Matana]

Who am I talking to?

[Pablo Torre]

Just channel. Channel. Charlie Weiss.

[Charlie Weis]

Hello. You have reached the voting line for the USA Today Sports Coaches Poll. This line is for football and men's basketball. Please give your name and school, followed by your top 25 selections in order, beginning with number one. As you read, please check your ballot carefully to make sure you have not duplicated a team. Identify yourself first, please. Thank you for calling. Begin speaking at the tone. Leave your message at the tone. Press pound when finished.

[Jess Matana]

This is Charlie Weiss from the University of Notre Dame. Number one, Ohio State. Number two, Oregon. Number three, Notre Dame. Number four, Georgia. Number five, Indiana. Number six, Texas. Number seven, Texas Tech. Number eight, Miami. Number nine, Texas A&M. Number 10, LSU. Number 11, Alabama. Number 12, Oklahoma. Number 13, USC. That's Southern California. Number 14. Michigan. 15. Tennessee. 16. Ole Miss 17. Penn State 18. BYU. 19, Florida. 20. Missouri 21, Washington. 22, Iowa. 23, Clemson. 24, South Carolina. 25, Utah.

[Pablo Torre]

No. UNC.

[David Cavucci]

No. Virginia Tech.

[Jess Matana]

UNC. I mean, their wins total is like four and a half right now in the sports books.

[Pablo Torre]

Really?

[Jess Matana]

Their schedule's pretty hard.

[David Cavucci]

Should we end the call or just let them keep listening to us?

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, yeah. I am also. Charlie Weiss.

[David Cavucci]

You've made history. I believe you're the first one to history. You're the first woman to ever vote in the coaches pool.

[Pablo Torre]

We're still voting.

[Jess Matana]

Oh, hang up the cut.

[Pablo Torre]

This Go Irish. Pablo torre finds out is produced by walter aoma, maxwell carney, ryan cortez, juan galindo, patrick kim, ne, rob mccrae, matt sullivan, claire taylor and chris tominiello. Studio engineering by rd systems. Sound design by andrew burcic. Digital strategy by bailey carlin and andrew northern. Theme song as always by john bravo. And we'll talk to.

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[David Cavucci]

Learn more about [e-mail].

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[Jess Matana]

Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Pablo Torre]

Oh no.

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Me to a human, him to a bird.

[David Cavucci]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

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Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

[David Cavucci]

Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty High interest debt

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