Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: We Found the Secret Album That the NBA's Best Executive Doesn't Want You to Hear

Date: June 12, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Guests: Wyatt Cenac, Branford Marsalis, Dara Mirzai, Mike Tucker, Matthew Morin

Overview of the Episode

In this investigative “talkumentary,” Pablo Torre uncovers a hidden chapter from the life of Sam Presti—the Oklahoma City Thunder’s famously secretive and successful executive. The episode explores Presti’s largely unknown past as a jazz-rap drummer and the creation of his college-era underground album, "Milk Money," featuring interviews with collaborators and musicians, a Thunder superfan crate-digger, and culminating in a live critique from jazz legend Branford Marsalis. The episode deftly weaves together themes of secrecy, creativity, basketball team-building, and the enduring lessons of a liberal arts education.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Mystique of Sam Presti

• Secrecy as Strategy:
  • Presti is known for his extreme privacy. He avoids media, appearing only twice a year for brief, tightly controlled press conferences. (04:53)
  • “When it comes to getting a one-on-one interview, it would be easier to get access to the leader of ISIS.” — Fox Sports reporter, quoted by Pablo [03:50]
• Basketball Success:
  • Despite losing the trio of MVPs (Durant, Westbrook, Harden), Presti rebuilt the Thunder, earning Executive of the Year and leading OKC to the 2025 NBA Finals. [02:49–03:05]

2. Discovery of Milk Money

• The Secret Album’s Origin Story:
  • Dara Mirzai, an Oklahoma City superfan and music enthusiast, finds a CD in a Boston shop labeled “Sam Presti – Milk Money.” Only upon listening does he realize the Thunder GM is the artist. [09:57–10:56]
• Attempts to Suppress:
  • Dara uploads the album to YouTube, but is soon asked by mysterious parties (implied to be Thunder associates) to take it down. He complies, fearing trouble with the team.
    • “I didn’t want to get banned from Thunder games or anything either.” — Dara [13:43]

3. Presti's Musical Roots

• High School and College Days:
  • Presti formed the band during his Emerson days, drawing from hip hop and jazz, paralleling the conscious hip-hop movement of the mid-90s (A Tribe Called Quest, Guru's Jazzmatazz, Digable Planets).
    • “He didn’t want to do anything like specifically jazz or hip hop, but he was into both.” — Mike Tucker, saxophonist [18:52]
• Collaboration and Sound:
  • The group, including Grammy-nominated musicians who recall Presti as both authentic and quietly influential, blended genres and worked as a collective—much like Presti approaches building basketball teams.

4. The Music and Its Analysis

• Listening to Milk Money:
  • Pablo and Wyatt dissect the cover art and tracks, recognizing the indie hip-hop aesthetic (“backpack rap”), jazz influences, and samples from the era.
    • “There’s a real humility that he has … he’s someone who appreciates his music but does not consider himself an aficionado.” — Wyatt Cenac [22:08]
  • Notably, Presti donated proceeds from a live concert and album sales to children’s hospital charity. [26:16–26:48]
• Themes of Teamwork, Creativity, and Decision-Making:
  • Several guests draw explicit parallels between Presti’s music-making (collective, low-ego, genre-blending) and his unorthodox style as an NBA executive, working in a “basement” (small market) and trusting the process. [24:08–25:01]

5. Critique by Branford Marsalis

• An Honest Musical Appraisal:
  • Branford listens live to tracks from Milk Money and offers real-time jazz musician feedback:
    • “Sam understands what the job is, and he keeps the beat… just play the gig, bro.” [44:57]
    • Marsalis recognizes Presti’s skill and discipline, noting the authenticity and era-appropriate grooves.
    • On the band’s choices: “There are more efficient ways to do what you’re doing … but the rest of the band was very disciplined. Sam played the parts.” [48:02]
    • On the Coltrane standard: “I thought it was really cool that [Presti] didn’t make the cliché crash… That was a great idea.” [50:52]
  • Branford is surprised to learn Presti never mentions his musical past, reinforcing Presti’s genuine humility. [41:44]

6. Basketball Meets Jazz Philosophy

• Team-Building and Comping:
  • Marsalis discusses “comping” in jazz (supporting the soloist over seeking the spotlight) and connects this to the unselfish, collaborative approach of both the Thunder and the Pacers.
    • Quoting Pacers coach Rick Carlisle: “You really like these guys. They love comping as much as they love soloing.” [36:03]
    • Marsalis compares building a jazz band to building a basketball team – “You have to identify the strengths and weaknesses of each player… challenge musicians to eliminate their weaknesses.” [36:58]
• Downsides of the Big Three Era:
  • Pablo and Marsalis reflect on the NBA’s previous “superstar” era versus the current “everybody matters” model exemplified by Indiana and Oklahoma City. [38:00]

7. The Value of Liberal Arts

• Marsalis bemoans the decline of liberal arts colleges, arguing that well-rounded, creative leaders like Presti are forged in such environments.
  • “The essential destruction of the liberal arts college in the United States was one of the worst things… everything you learn, you carry with you.” — Branford Marsalis [52:47–53:46]

8. Sam Presti: The Man Behind the Curtain

• A New Perspective:
  • Despite Presti’s privacy, the episode offers listeners a rare, humanizing glimpse of the man, his creative drive, and underlying philosophy—whether building records or building rosters.
  • “He’s been the only constant in this organization. But I don’t think I’ve ever really seen him laugh at anything, you know?” — Dara Mirzai [54:33]
• What Would Daryl Morey Do?:
  • “If this was him, he’d be like, ‘Should I re-release the deluxe edition?’” — Dara Mirzai, comparing Presti’s humility with another exec’s probable bravado [54:32]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Presti’s Secretiveness:

  “The reason that Sam Presti considered hiring Brian Windhorst … is that information to Sam Presti is currency.” — Pablo Torre [04:55]

• On Finding the CD:

  “All of a sudden, 20 seconds in, the guy starts talking. I’m like, I’ve heard this voice … this is definitely Sam Presti’s voice.” — Dara Mirzai [10:56]

• Self-Awareness as a Musician:

  “I didn’t want to overstep my boundaries because I’m not a hip hop purist, I’m not a jazz purist by any means … but it’s music that I love and stuff that I wanted to do.” — Sam Presti (archival) [21:00–22:04]

• Branford Marsalis on Presti’s Playing:

  “He keeps the beat. There’s a few guys that would play that groove and add extra things … Just play the gig, bro.” [44:57]
  “He didn’t make the cliché crash … that was a great idea. I mean, Sam, go ahead, man. Way to think it through.” [50:52]

• On Team Philosophy:

  “You really like these guys. They love comping as much as they love soloing.” — Rick Carlisle (via Marsalis) [36:03]
  “Jazz is a metaphor … guys need to get a hold of their ego and sublimate themselves for the greater mission.” — Pablo Torre [38:26]

• Wyatt Cenac on Jazz & Hip Hop Influence:

  “We were drinking the same water. Yeah, yeah. This is—I know you, Sam.” [23:19]

• Reflections on Presti’s Humility:

  “If you didn’t know what he did, you wouldn’t know what he does. He wouldn’t introduce it. He’d never bring it up. That’s my kind of dude right there.” — Branford Marsalis [40:48]

• On Liberal Arts & Personal Growth:

  “Everything you learn, you carry with you.” — Branford Marsalis [53:46]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:54–05:33 — Intro, setup: Sam Presti’s privacy and philosophy
• 09:57–13:43 — Dara Mirzai finds the "Milk Money" CD and tries (unsuccessfully) to share it
• 16:09–19:32 — Hearing from Milk Money’s band members, Presti’s high school/college approach to music
• 22:08–25:01 — Wyatt Cenac and Pablo break down the album’s influences and parallels to Presti’s GM style
• 26:16–26:39 — Presti’s charitable donations from album proceeds
• 32:10–41:44 — Branford Marsalis’ introduction, connection to both the Thunder and Pacers, philosophy on music, teamwork, leadership
• 43:44–52:03 — Marsalis listens to and critiques Milk Money tracks, offers admiration for Presti’s musicianship and restraint
• 52:47–53:46 — Branford Marsalis on the importance of liberal arts education
• 54:00–54:33 — Dara Mirzai reflects on Presti’s public persona vs. private passions

Tone and Style

The episode is playful, witty, and layered—a blend of hard journalism, music appreciation, basketball nerdery, and affectionate ribbing. It features both deep reporting and moments of comedic asides (such as joke detours about the “Jazz Rabbit Hole”), while always returning to a narrative of discovery and the hidden humanity behind a public figure.

Summary

For those who haven’t listened:
This episode is both an investigative journey and a mini music doc, revealing Sam Presti’s long-buried college album and what it says about his approach to basketball, leadership, and life. Through rare recordings, exclusive interviews, Midwestern crate-diggers, and a jazz great’s analysis, Pablo Torre finds out how secret passions and creative discipline helped shape the NBA’s most enigmatic executive, and why embracing your hidden talents—and your past—can make you better in any field.