← Pablo Torre Finds Out
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.
- [00:07]
B
Now we just gotta find a place for your friend LeBron to live. What's he like?
- [00:11]
C
He's a modern guy, but he respects tradition.
- [00:15]
A
Right after this ad.
- [00:18]
B
You'Re listening to.
- [00:20]
A
Giraffe Kings, so avert your eyes is what I've been yelling at you guys.
- [00:36]
D
I've already seen so many names. I'm ready.
- [00:40]
A
So, Jason Concepcion, Rob Perez, thank you for being here. We're in la. I've summoned this very specific focus group with a degree of perverse enthusiasm that I think is truly unlike a feeling I've ever felt before as the host of anything. And specifically a show where my whole goal for people who don't know what the this show is, is to like bring people things that I wanted to find out about, but also things that can feel almost like a loot box in the parlance of video games. Like some's in here, we don't know what it is, but in this case, I do know specifically what it is. And I've been teasing you guys with just some very vague references to what is inside. And so you guys are almost a proxy for not just any audience, but specifically an audience of, I would say generally unhinged but principled Knicks fans.
- [01:34]
D
Sure.
- [01:35]
E
Is that accurate?
- [01:36]
D
I don't know. I don't think they're as unhinged as people think, but I think that's the brand, which is good.
- [01:43]
E
When I think unhinged, I think the side talk video.
- [01:47]
A
Right, right.
- [01:48]
C
Double overtime. What the baby.
- [01:52]
A
New York is back. Knicks are here, baby. The Knicks are here, baby. Kd, don't you regret not coming to the Knicks?
- [02:00]
E
Don't you regret not coming to the Knicks?
- [02:02]
A
The Knicks. So you guys are relative to the sidetalk guys. Hinged.
- [02:09]
D
Yeah. Even that is, even the unhingedness is, I think, like a rational response to circumstances. It's a joy at being alive and in the moment. It's not just chaos for chaos's sake.
- [02:25]
E
I think we both want what's best for the franchise. But like the same, like you guys.
- [02:31]
A
Are both giving a. A co press conference.
- [02:35]
E
I, I mean, Jason and I experienced the 90s, so a lot of those fans outside the Garden that participated in that viral video may have been younger than us. I've seen too much. Okay? So unless it's a championship, I can't get that excited for either a regular season win or a first round playoff series win. I've just been so close that game seven in Houston, 95 with the layup and Ewing, like, it's just. There's only one way to make me happy. So as a result, you become naturally apathetic over time.
- [03:06]
A
There's only one way to make me happy. Feels like a thing that prompts an intervention of some kind.
- [03:11]
E
Okay, well, this might change things quickly.
- [03:40]
A
Okay, so today's episode is the story of a secret videotape, a long rumored, never before seen time capsule of sorts, of a Knicks tape even, that I had been trying to unearth for years now in my capacity as both investigative reporter and also crucially, native New York elitist. Because like Jason Concepcion and Worldwide Wab Perez, two of the biggest Knicks fans in all sports media, I grew up really caring about this team. In fact, like those maniacs on the sidewalk, I grew up wishing for a big free agent to fall in love with Madison Square Garden so that they could win the Knicks first title since 1973. And I have since stopped caring like that. Mostly on account of the Knicks owner, Jim Dolan, who inherited the team from his father, making him, yes, a Nepo billionaire. But in the summer of 2010, this was the summer defined by the biggest free agent mystery in the history of sports. I cared a whole lot. In fact, I presumed that the Knicks were not simply contenders to sign LeBron James. Like many New Yorkers, I believe that the Knicks were the obvious decision.
- [04:55]
C
Well, everybody is on pins and needles across the country, particularly those teams who are in the running for LeBron James. You ready to go, LeBron?
- [05:02]
A
Where's the powder? Left it at home. But Jim Dolan's Knicks could taste it.
- [05:10]
D
I think there were significant signals from LeBron and his camp that would lead one to believe that we were in it.
- [05:18]
E
Last time I checked, didn't we dump our entire future to acquire Tracy McGrady just so we can salary dump? We traded assets to clear the books.
- [05:27]
D
We did all of that. But to me, what? I never really believed it until the Yankees hats started coming out. Until all these other kind of signals started happening that seemed like nods to the Knicks. The fact that the LeBron decision event was being held in Connecticut. There was like all these little signals. Yeah. That made it feel like, oh my God, I think it could be us.
- [05:51]
A
Yes, he gave an interview to Jon Stewart on the Daily Show. Guys vaguely remember that part where he plays coy. LeBron is like playing coy. He's like basking in the glow, the applause of an in person New York studio crowd.
- [06:03]
E
I gotta tell you, you're Coming up on your free agency, right? And I just want to, you know, very quickly, just if I can just. There you go.
- [06:13]
A
That's a really nice cup.
- [06:14]
E
That's a beautiful cup. It's a cup. I love New York. Are you familiar with our city?
- [06:20]
C
This is New York, right?
- [06:21]
E
This is New York City. We have a team, the Knickerbockers, right? They're a basketball team.
- [06:27]
A
So the initial plan was that LeBron was going to go visit all of these cities and New York was going to get to have basically these celebrities, almost like college football recruiting hostesses, right? Where it was like, here are all the famous people, they're gonna take you around town, you'll go to fancy events, we'll show you why New York is special in person. A big party was gonna be thrown by Jim Dolan in the knicks. And then LeBron pivots suddenly and says, actually, I want everybody to visit me in Cleveland.
- [06:54]
D
Power move. I like it.
- [06:55]
A
Yes. Everybody sent delegations. They're almost like un style diplomatic envoys. The Knicks are gonna have to visit me. And so are the Clippers and the Nets and the Bulls and the Heat and, and he's going to do all of this at this building in Downtown Cleveland, the IMG Building. And it's July 1, a Thursday, 2010, the very beginning of legal free agency. And as the Knicks are pulling in to the parking lot of the IMG building, Jay Z is pulling out. So Jay Z and the Nets have presented at 11am apparently, and he has to go now, jet off to his concert in Europe, according to the newspapers at the time.
- [07:31]
D
And.
- [07:31]
A
And the Knicks delegation pulls and it's four black Town Cars, okay, and into the room where LeBron James is waiting. And it's LeBron. It's his agent at the time, Leon Rose, now the president, of course, of the Knicks, of the new look Knicks, who was his agent then at caa. It's Maverick Carter, his right hand man. His business partner, Randy Mims, another member of his inner circle. And into the room walk James Dolan, Mike d', Antoni, then head coach of the Knicks, Donnie Walsh, Nick's president, infamously in a wheelchair, such as.
- [08:02]
D
It was like his flu game.
- [08:03]
A
Yes, Donnie Walsh's flu game was walking into the pitch room alongside Glenn Grunwald, who was a senior vp, and Hank Ratner, who was an MSG executive. And Alan Houston also was there, cause Allen Houston, of course, assistant to the president, also Knicks, former Knicks, great. And in lieu of doing the thing that they wanted to do, which was like here are all the celebrities hosting you. They had made a video. And so this video, a lot has been rumored about, argued about, mythologized about in the years since. And the thing that is consistently accurate in all of the talk about it is that no one actually has it. No one has this thing. Except of course, for me. I have it. I have been. I've been. I've been watching it over and over again. I found it at the bottom of a rabbit hole that my investigation took me deep inside of. That I never expected, frankly. But you should know that I have gazed inside the ark of this covenant and what is inside. What you should know about this up front here is that it is not exactly what you would imagine. Unless you love imagining prestige television fan fiction.
- [09:28]
D
Let me just ask, like, total running time of this video?
- [09:32]
A
About 10 minutes.
- [09:32]
D
That's so crazy.
- [09:36]
A
10.
- [09:38]
E
They made LeBron sit through a class project for 10 minutes. 10 minutes of his time.
- [09:42]
A
Correct.
- [09:42]
D
All right.
- [09:43]
A
Correct. They have one chance to convince the most high profile free agent in the history of sports to come play for a franchise that desperately despises. Desperately could use exactly that. And they walk into the room and sit down and they press play on a video. And it starts like this.
- [10:04]
E
Yeah, I'll take it down.
- [10:06]
B
Tony, I'm so glad we moved to New York. Life is so much better now.
- [10:09]
C
Yeah, life's good. Here comes. Even if we are in the witness protection program.
- [10:15]
B
Now we just gotta find a place for your friend LeBron to live. What's he like?
- [10:19]
C
Well, he's a modern guy, but he respects tradition.
- [10:23]
B
Here's something classy on the east side.
- [10:25]
C
Is it big enough? He's gonna be entertaining a lot of people in New York.
- [10:29]
B
It's very expensive.
- [10:30]
C
Oh, that's not gonna be a problem. You gotta find something magnificent. Something. There's nothing in the world like it. One of a kind, like he is.
- [10:41]
B
Well, here's a place says it gets really loud there.
- [10:44]
A
Take a look.
- [10:47]
C
Oh, yeah, yeah, that's it. That's got to be perfect for him.
- [10:52]
A
Allow me to reintroduce myself. My name is.
- [11:00]
E
I. Can I lead us off, please?
- [11:03]
A
What did you just see there?
- [11:04]
E
Okay, so the final few seconds is a Jay Z song. The man just walked out of the room. Sec.
- [11:09]
A
Second of all, it's a good point to point out that they did play the song of the guy who just left as they were entering. I didn't really with that.
- [11:17]
E
They knew he was going to pitch him at some point too. Yet that's the song they Go out with number two. This feels like the scene after they go to black in the diner.
- [11:26]
A
Yes.
- [11:27]
E
They go back to some Chelsea apartment where they're in hiding with a window air unit conditioner. I. I felt a little nostalgia right there. So that was actually kind of cool. But that's ruined by the orange paint that they showed the Knicks court with the orange paint, which is cursed. That orange paint never brought in amongst Knicks fans. That's, like, the worst thing ever. So there was orange paint on the court that they went full screen with. So first three things that popped out to me.
- [12:00]
B
I.
- [12:01]
D
First of all, I want to say, Rob, incredible to glean, like, and the outlines of, like, a plot and the way this dovetails with the season finale, the series finale of the Sopranos. None of that. I didn't pick up any of that. What I got was, like, a King of Queens kind of feel. And this is the only, like, set that they could get. There's an air conditioner prominently behind Mr. Gandolfini, the window unit.
- [12:35]
A
Mr. Gandolfini was hosting the crew in his apartment. That is James Gandolfini. That was James Gandolfini's apartment in Manhattan.
- [12:43]
E
What.
- [12:44]
A
Yes. Which is a shocking thing when you see actually what it looks like to your point. And so this was about almost three years after the Sopranos ended, and the fade to black famous scene. And apparently Gandolfini, by the way, was super into this. So Edie Falco, Carmela. The word out of this taping was that the whole premise that, like, hey, we're in the witness protection program, okay? And we're in this weird apartment, and we're trying to help our friend LeBron? That was James Gandolfini's idea.
- [13:13]
B
Jim Gandolfini would rarely do these kinds of things, and if he did, he would do them very begrudgingly. Like, we would sort of look at each other across the room, like, when the hell am I out of here? You know, Jim was into this.
- [13:23]
D
He was really into it.
- [13:25]
B
There he was dressed as Tony, and.
- [13:27]
D
He was like, well, what if I.
- [13:28]
B
Came over this way and did that? I was like, are you kidding me? Really?
- [13:32]
D
This is. You know, I.
- [13:33]
B
So, I mean, I guess he must have been a bigger basketball fan than I realized, but, yeah. And then he had some idea for the. The way it ended or something. And I remember thinking, geez Louise, whoever would have thought he'd be, like, all in for this little weird thing that we're doing that no one's ever gonna see?
- [13:49]
A
But now we finally can over on YouTube and the DraftKings network. And what you can clearly see is the strongest possible argument that after the final scene of the Sopranos, which aired in 2007, one of the most debated deaths in TV history. Don't stop. Tony is actually alive.
- [14:12]
D
You're now basically creating an ending in which Tony goes states witness and is able. He goes rat and is able to enter witness protection.
- [14:24]
E
I mean, that's a pretty valuable piece of NBA.
- [14:27]
A
It's one of the last things that this man, one of the great actors of our time. Like, really for real? Yes.
- [14:32]
E
That's what I was about to get to is like that feels like an artifact in Hollywood.
- [14:36]
A
So that is the beginning of the video. And then it goes to this procession. What I would say is like a recruiting committee now. So now we're getting into the recruiting committee phase of like James Dolan's favorite people. And so it comes out of the Sopranos and it goes to this.
- [14:55]
D
Oh, my God.
- [14:56]
E
The real winners of the world want to be here.
- [14:58]
C
They come here. They want to come to New York. Whether it's Wall street or whether it's fashion or no matter what it is, this is the place the real winners want to be.
- [15:08]
D
So that aged, I think, not great.
- [15:11]
E
I thought that was going to be a lot worse.
- [15:13]
D
I thought it was going to be worse as well. That's one of the more hinged, I think. Performances 2010 Trump from the Donald.
- [15:21]
A
Yep. This is the place where real winners want to be. Absolutely. In fairness, this is like years before, of course, like LeBron would boycott the Trump, Soho, Trump's hotel when they were visiting to play the Knicks. Like that was a thing that got. And then the you bum thing, obviously, in 2017, is there any regret that.
- [15:38]
E
You got into a name calling situation with the President?
- [15:41]
A
No. A name caller. What I say, Let me hear you say it.
- [15:47]
E
Called him a bum.
- [15:48]
A
It's not a name call. It's you bum. Me and my friends call each other that all the time. I'm not his friend, though. Don't ever, don't. I don't want to see that. On a note, he's not my friend. But it's still like around the same year that I think Michael Cohen had just started, like leaking to the National Enquirer. Like birtherism, conspiracies. So this is that phase of Trump.
- [16:10]
D
Yeah, I mean, as a, as a life, you know, I was born and raised in, in, in and around New York, Queens and Long Island. And I'll just say that it was not it was never really a mystery that he was a bad guy. Like, for those in the know, like, it was so y. Yeah. A curious. I think a curious. A curious person to have on the video. But I get it. He's in. He was in the Rolodex, right?
- [16:38]
A
I mean, the question was like, okay, we got to get everybody, the Avengers of New York City, to pitch. Correct the pitch. LeBron James and Dolan's Infinity Stones are.
- [16:48]
E
A little different than some other New Yorkers, but so far, it's. It's two that I would have predicted for James Dolan would have been probably those two.
- [16:56]
A
Yeah.
- [16:57]
E
Power stone. What's.
- [16:58]
A
What?
- [16:58]
E
Which stone is Trump?
- [17:00]
D
Oh, which of the stones?
- [17:03]
A
The tax evasion stone.
- [17:04]
D
Yeah, probably. Yeah. The High Crimes and Misdemeanors stone. The fish fillet stone.
- [17:15]
A
So it goes from Donald Trump and it proceeds from there.
- [17:19]
C
Well, bronze. If you come to New York, not only will you have the best fans.
- [17:24]
E
The best media, the best coverage.
- [17:26]
D
Okay.
- [17:27]
C
But you're gonna have the best city.
- [17:28]
F
This city standing behind you, prepared not only to support your game, but to support your play.
- [17:35]
C
Outside the game was kind of funny. I'd said, if I go to New York, they'll name a candy bar after me. Lo and behold, they did.
- [17:45]
A
That was Richard Parsons, the chairman of Citigroup, followed by, of course, Mr. October, Reggie Jackson.
- [17:51]
E
It doesn't feel very personalized. It's as if I was just being pitched to move to New York City in, like, here's why, or there's a VP job open and I'm getting recruited by a firm. Right.
- [18:05]
D
It is striking that outside of Mr. Gandolfini and Ms. Falco, no one has said LeBron's name in their list.
- [18:13]
E
That's my point.
- [18:16]
D
So that's interesting.
- [18:17]
E
All we're missing is Michael Scott introducing Sbarro at this point.
- [18:20]
A
Right. So we don't have Michael Scott, but we do have this guy.
- [18:25]
E
You win in New York, first of all, you get a parade unlike any parade anywhere. Ask Derek Jeter. Ask Cece Sabathia.
- [18:33]
C
The hard organization in the world responds.
- [18:35]
E
With more enthusiasm, more love, more power.
- [18:39]
C
Than New York City.
- [18:40]
E
To great effort, to great achievement. They really love you forever. I mean, greatest baseball player of all time, Babe Ruth. I'm not sure he would have been if he stayed in Boston.
- [18:54]
A
His brain seems intact, has not yet been eaten by the Internet.
- [18:57]
D
Right. There's no unknown dark liquid dripping down his head.
- [19:02]
B
The president's attorney, Rudy Giuliani, held a press conference today, continuing to stick to his unfounded Claims that there was massive voter fraud in the election. But there's a good chance people had trouble focusing on what he was saying, thanks to some. Something black dripping down both sides of his face.
- [19:18]
D
In my estimation. Not a great mayor.
- [19:21]
A
No. Don't look too closely at how he was policing the city.
- [19:25]
D
Don't. Yes. Don't look at all about how he did that.
- [19:28]
A
Yes. Famous black athlete. Don't. Don't click the footnotes on the Wikipedia page.
- [19:33]
E
You only get one chance to make a first impression. We are now 60 seconds into this video, so our focus group, we could sit here and dissect it from our POV, but I'm thinking, what is LeBron? He's now seen 60 seconds of it, and it's at the point that he's already forming opinions based on this video and the people that created it for him. And have we seen anything other than. I'm starting to appreciate the Gandolfini skit.
- [19:57]
A
A lot more after what I've seen.
- [19:59]
D
It's definitely the high point. And it feels like, you know, we're now kind of just sledding at various speeds downhill. Because again, you know, Rudy not looking at the camera and never says, hey, LeBron, here's what's great about New York. He's just talking to who?
- [20:14]
E
We've just been hit with three straight videos that you see when you sit on a Big Apple tour bus that pop up like, on the screen as you're going around the city or the Circle Line. Here's our introductory video. And that's what I feel like we just watched. So if that's the goal, they're nailing.
- [20:29]
A
It so far, then, Braun, you gotta come here.
- [20:34]
G
It's the greatest city in the world. Anything you want at any time. You want a fish sandwich at 4:32 in the morning, you can't get that in Cleveland, but you can get it in New York. And you know what else we got? LeBron. We got other famous people. So maybe you won't feel like such a freak where you live right now. That's right. That's right. There's other superheroes roaming the streets that you can talk to. Do you understand playing the Garden the same room that Prince played, that run DMC plays, that Jay Z plays? Do you understand playing in the greatest arena in the world?
- [21:08]
D
Okay, I like that one.
- [21:09]
E
If just Gandolfini and Chris Rock and they stopped the video, I'm convinced LeBron would have probably been a New York. That's a lot better. That's personalized. What we were just talking about.
- [21:18]
A
Yep. Authentic fish sandwiches are in fact available at all hours of the day.
- [21:22]
D
Yeah.
- [21:22]
A
What's next?
- [21:23]
C
Coming into Madison Square Garden is the first time as a New York Knick. You know, I have been here many times as the Baltimore Bullet playing against the Knicks, and the crowd was good to me. They cheered for me and whatnot.
- [21:36]
E
But once they saw me as a.
- [21:38]
C
New York Knick wearing that number 15 for the first time, it was nothing like it.
- [21:44]
E
I think what makes New York so.
- [21:45]
A
Special are the people.
- [21:47]
F
The relationships that I forge over the years has just cemented my love of the city.
- [21:53]
A
So we have Earl the Pearl Monroe, Mark Messier talking about winning titles in New York City with the Rangers in the Nets, obviously.
- [21:59]
D
Yeah.
- [21:59]
E
At this point in the video, LeBron has now looked at his flip phone because it's 2010. Right. And he's just gotten a text from Jay Z that says, thanks again, See you soon. And he's probably responding at this point in the video because it was just very non engaging.
- [22:16]
A
It's also.
- [22:16]
E
He lost the Chris Rock momentum.
- [22:18]
A
It is a good reminder that LeBron, when he's watching this, had not won a title yet.
- [22:20]
D
Right.
- [22:21]
A
Like, this is part of his whole thing. Where can he do this best? And the Knicks are like, let me introduce you to Mark Messier.
- [22:29]
E
He seems like a great guy.
- [22:31]
A
Yeah.
- [22:31]
E
But just not for this video. He would even sit here and be like, why am I in here? Probably.
- [22:38]
A
It proceeds.
- [22:40]
F
New York is a society not built around who your parents were, and it's not built around how much money you have. It is a society built around philanthropy and what you do.
- [22:52]
A
If there are other things that you.
- [22:54]
C
You want to be doing, like with charities and stuff like that, there's no better place than New York and better people to support that than New York.
- [23:02]
A
Yep.
- [23:03]
D
Okay. Again, really weird to have the first billionaire mayor of. Of New York City say, hey, it's not about the money.
- [23:11]
A
Money doesn't matter in New York. Jason, famously, New York does not care about money.
- [23:16]
D
Okay, those were fine. I guess I appreciate Mr. De Niro looking at the camera and appearing that he was discussing. Appearing to discuss LeBron James.
- [23:29]
A
Yeah.
- [23:29]
E
I've seen De Niro at more Laker games than I have Knicks games, though I don't associate him with. With like, one of those Knicks stronghold a listers at all. Spike, Chris, everyone that you've seen thus far that you see at current Knicks.
- [23:43]
D
Games today, red flag that Spike's not in it yet. Like, wouldn't you have Spike lead off the batting order, wouldn't he be more present? That's interesting to me that you would not have Spike further up in this.
- [23:58]
A
Well, you have to make room for some important people.
- [24:00]
D
Let's see.
- [24:03]
G
Oh, no, no.
- [24:06]
F
Such a universal city. And I know LeBron. I mean, I read his book and I know that he's tight with his buddy. The idea of those friends coming to New York City, those guys sound amazing. Loyal, smart, bright. They can have such an impact on the business sector for LeBron James and also for the charitable sector. And in New York City, the opportunities to meet the guys who run the multi billion dollar companies and to get these companies behind. The LeBron James School, Hospital, I mean, educational center. I mean, what an impact. And those friends of his could be the ambassadors, I mean, to that world.
- [24:46]
A
So Harvey Weinstein, right?
- [24:48]
D
Currently incarcerated.
- [24:50]
A
Currently incarcerated after dozens of women accused him of rape, sexual assault, sexual abuse over a period of 30 years. That Harvey Weinstein. LeBron. I've heard you have friends. What if I told you that New York is a place where your friends can meet lots of famous rich people? I'm Harvey Weinstein. In no way will this message age poorly. So this was taped, by the way. That was taped at the Miramax Tribeca headquarters. Apparently it was De Niro and Harvey back to back.
- [25:19]
E
He did say buddies. I thought he was gonna go with posi. Just the way that things played out with the Knicks. Like you and your posse, you look great, like you're having a great time together, knowing what was coming with Phil.
- [25:29]
D
Well, that was Phil, to be fair. That was Phil.
- [25:32]
A
I know, but that was Phil Jackson. Harvey Weinstein was on the right side of history on this one.
- [25:36]
E
Yeah, Somehow was on the right side of calling LeBron's friends a proper name. That didn't offend him like Phil's did.
- [25:44]
A
Wait, Rob, have you heard the song? Have you heard the Dolan song when.
- [25:48]
E
He plays the kazoo?
- [25:49]
A
No, no, J.D. in the straight shot, they do. He. He wrote a song and performed a song that is called. In fact, I should have known about his deep, longtime friendship with Harvey Weinstein.
- [25:59]
D
You think his lawyer was like, can we call it something else?
- [26:06]
A
Can we not make the O.J. simpson if I did it of songs?
- [26:12]
C
We were friends. We were friends. Talked for hours without Harvey Weinstein about his latest story, how to deal with fame and glory. All the girls who adored him catered to his every whim. Nothing he could lose. All he need to do was choose. I should have known. I should have known. I should have thrown myself across his tracks Stopped him from these vile attacks. I should have known.
- [26:45]
E
Is this how billionaires do J. Cole versus Kendrick Lamar?
- [26:49]
A
Yes, exactly right. So, you know, there's that.
- [27:00]
D
There is that.
- [27:01]
A
If you're wondering how close are these.
- [27:02]
D
Guys, I'll say this about. About that tune. And I think it's actually, you know, the musicianship is quite good. The people that James has playing with him, supporting him in the JD Project are very solid.
- [27:15]
A
The straight shot is. No issues with the straight shot.
- [27:18]
D
Professional musicians. And I'll just say, like, J clearly is, the muse of music lives inside of him. And I think in the years that he has really been pursuing that muse through different projects like the Sphere in Las Vegas, which brings him closer to live events than ever before in the most immersive way.
- [27:37]
A
I see what you're doing now.
- [27:38]
C
Yes.
- [27:39]
D
Seen on Earth. I think that it's clearly made him so happy to be doing that. And I think you've also seen a period of Nick's success as he's rededicated himself to the passion of music. And so I would say, hearing that.
- [27:56]
A
Song, if you'd like to address Mr. Dolan. Yes.
- [27:58]
D
Lyrical content, maybe not for me, but keep going.
- [28:05]
E
Expressing my anguish through the majesty of song.
- [28:08]
D
Keep going, keep going, keep going. Keep playing music. Keep bringing that to the world. Because that sounded really good.
- [28:29]
A
And then I think we needed a palate cleanser, or at least I think the Knicks then needed a palate cleanser of sorts, because then New York is.
- [28:38]
B
And has always been the center of the global black world. Whether you're in Kingston, Lagos, Johannesburg, South Central Detroit, Miami, Atlanta. This. New York is where the black world has its heart.
- [28:52]
C
When you play for the Knicks, you don't have a contract with a team, you have a contract with a city.
- [29:00]
A
Oh, God.
- [29:01]
D
You know, I've. It's. I don't know how LeBron received this video, but I. You know, it kind of feels a little patronizing to have just a little. The Knicks, led by a group in which Alan Houston's the only black guy in the room telling him about black history in America.
- [29:26]
A
Right. So they brought in Thelma golden, who apparently director of the Studio Museum of Harlem, followed by other noted, you know, just, I would say, racial visionary Alec Baldwin, who.
- [29:38]
D
This is 30 Rock era.
- [29:41]
A
Yes, Alec Baldwin. This is in real life, Alec Baldwin, apparently choppering from the Hamptons.
- [29:46]
D
Nice.
- [29:47]
A
Into MSG to do this interview specifically for this. Yeah. And this pre cameo, pre selfie video age. Alec Baldwin.
- [29:53]
D
Appreciate it. Long island legend Alec Baldwin.
- [29:55]
A
That's Right.
- [29:56]
E
Every time I want to give the video a chance, it, like, Alec Baldwin appears on my screen. It's one step forward, two steps back, and now it's turning into an SNL sketch of itself. So if I'm sitting there with LeBron, like, is this meant to be a comedy or is it. This is serious. I still. We're a couple minutes in. I still can't figure it out. It just, like, I don't know what Alec Baldwin accomplishes in this.
- [30:15]
A
Right. The question, I suppose, is, like, how can you make LeBron James again? 2010 LeBron James, who is famous.
- [30:22]
D
Yeah.
- [30:22]
A
Like, how do you feel? How do you get him to feel starstruck? How do you get him to feel like the Knicks have something unique that he cannot access elsewhere? And this is the dick. This is Jim Dolan's attempt to cater specifically to. To that person.
- [30:36]
D
You should add the legend about how Pat Riley eventually won LeBron James. Even though I think that if you read the whole timeline of the thing from the Olympics on through the decision, I think it was pretty clear that he knew what he was gonna do. But, yeah, the legend of what Pat Rally did was just throw the bag of championship rings on the table. That's what he wanted to hear at this period.
- [31:00]
A
Yes.
- [31:01]
D
How do I want to.
- [31:01]
A
The sound of jewelry flattering on a table? Counterpoint. What if I brought you the guy from Glengarry Glen Ross.
- [31:08]
D
Nice decision. Have you made your decision for Christ?
- [31:13]
E
This is a team that put out a commercial, 15 second spot. All they said was the word Jerome James for 15 seconds. Jerome James. That was right after we signed him. Remember? Jerome James. Look it up, it's on.
- [31:23]
A
Wait, that's a real commercial.
- [31:24]
E
Jerome James.
- [31:26]
A
Jerome James. Jerome James. J squared.
- [31:31]
C
Jerome. Jerome.
- [31:33]
A
Jerome James.
- [31:34]
C
James James.
- [31:36]
E
Down in Soho going Jerome.
- [31:37]
D
I like those commercials. I thought they were good. The only problem was Jerome James was not good.
- [31:44]
E
That's my point. Like, this is who we're putting on a pedestal. This is not the city of champions. This franchise needs help. New York may have won championships in the past, but the Knicks are a complete outlier from the rest of the teams there that have had success.
- [31:56]
A
So speaking of all of that, speaking of the glory of the Garden, the video then gets to some sports.
- [32:02]
C
Oh, basketball is a part of New York City. It's the DNA of New York City. I've been a New York Knickerbockers fan all my life, and I miss hearing the Garden rock the way it used to. Sparks.
- [32:18]
D
Yes.
- [32:20]
C
What a move by one of my Most memorable recollections was game seven, May 8, 1970. Willis hurt his leg in game five.
- [32:32]
E
The question was whether I was going.
- [32:34]
C
To play in game seven, was not going to play in game seven.
- [32:37]
E
We've left the locker room.
- [32:38]
A
We don't know if Willis is going to be there or not.
- [32:40]
E
And suddenly there's this roar, here comes.
- [32:44]
C
Willis, and the crowd is going wild. And then the crowd never shut up. They just got louder and louder and louder and gave us the confidence that we needed to pull that off.
- [32:56]
E
Okay, this is now going from this is kind of funny to now I'm starting to get a little pissed off because we're.
- [33:02]
A
Wait, you just got Willis Reed. You just got Clyde Frazier. You got Spike Lee.
- [33:06]
E
This is insulting because we're talking about a man in LeBron James that has a photographic memory with everything regarding the game of basketball. He has played a minimum of 15 games at the Garden to this point. Twice per year with Cleveland, I assume, plus preseason games, whatever. It's. Why are we pitching as if you're about to walk into Madison Square Garden for the first time? This is what you're going to experience. He has seen Spike Lee for years courtside and had more authentic conversations than that for years. And now it's in the pitch video as if, oh, like you're going to get to meet Spike. He's seen him for a decade. That's insulting.
- [33:42]
D
You know, I love seeing Starks. He was my hero when I was a child.
- [33:46]
A
Right? They showed the dunk.
- [33:47]
D
Yeah, the dunk. Over Pippin and Jordan, or they were in the area, however you want to define it. But I think therein lies to me in Starks kind of the issue. Like, Starks famously was bagging groceries. He was the only other player who could approach averaging 20 points a game for that entire Ewing run, almost that entire Ewing run until the late 90s. And that was the issue. How can we avoid that with LeBron James? That is. That should be the pitch. Here's what we've learned from that.
- [34:23]
A
And so the question of, like, how are the Knicks going to get people beyond LeBron?
- [34:26]
C
Right?
- [34:27]
A
Is the subplot the subtext of this entire video? Right? Like, that's actually the brass tack story of this. It's, we can give you a million celebrities, but, like, who else are you bringing along to actually do this?
- [34:38]
E
I must have missed that part because I'm sitting here watching the video that a substitute teacher puts in when there's no agenda left over from the real teacher. That's sick. I Mean, what are we doing? And now it's. There's the worst that this video could be. Is boring. Because at least with Trump and Baldwin, I can have like a laugh at. Regardless of whatever his political opinions are. It's something that's engaging.
- [35:01]
A
And so we've reached the final stretch of this video, and I think you'll be impressed with the Knicks technological capacities.
- [35:10]
D
Okay.
- [35:10]
E
Oh, God.
- [35:13]
D
Wow.
- [35:13]
E
Oh, that's a big deal.
- [35:15]
C
Back in 2020, if we got LeBron, it would be more dynamic than anything that has happened to the Knicks. Even the two championships.
- [35:22]
D
Oh, come on.
- [35:22]
C
Would catapult this entire city.
- [35:28]
A
Can we react?
- [35:29]
E
The Photoshop.
- [35:31]
D
Whoever made Clyde say that. I'm so mad at you. You did not just say that. That would be better than The Knicks only two championships. Signing a free agent. I know, it's LeBron. Signing a free agent would be better than the two titles that the Knicks have won. The only two.
- [35:56]
A
Right. Thanks to horse tranquilizers into Willis Reed's leg.
- [36:01]
D
Stop that.
- [36:03]
E
I gotta see the Photoshop. Come on.
- [36:05]
A
All right, this is good. Yeah, we had the banner unfurled already from the top.
- [36:10]
G
Yay.
- [36:12]
A
That's rotoscoped. LeBron.
- [36:14]
E
That's from the mom made pizza rolls. Mean world.
- [36:17]
C
I think you're the type of brother that wants to have that burden, have that shoulder. I think you want to be the one that will bring a chance championship to New York City. This city was built by winners for winners. It was built for you.
- [36:45]
E
All right, that's good.
- [36:46]
A
God. And so the lights come back on and here we are back in the room and LeBron James is at the table and looking eagerly is Jim Dolan at his prize. They used Word accusation.
- [36:58]
E
Remember Word art from the Microsoft Word days and Windows 98? They dropped Word art on the screen and said, come to the next.
- [37:05]
D
You know, the technology was different than that might have been state of the art for the period.
- [37:12]
A
Yeah, The Jersey rotoscoping was like, hey, you know, think back at 2,010, right? Yeah. That was like a pre avatar.
- [37:21]
E
You know, what was going on with Spike. He wouldn't even look into the camera. LeBron, we need you. He's like looking down at the sidewalk. I mean, is he being forced to do this or his season tickets at stake or something? But there was zero enthusiasm. Did you catch that?
- [37:33]
D
It was not. I mean, he. There was a. An incredibly pregnant, eight month pregnant pause before he said. When he, you know, he goes, I think you're the type of brother who'd want to be Bring a championship. And he said it so sadly.
- [37:55]
A
Right? So it's around 3:30pm on July 1, 2010, this Thursday. And I just want to read you the quote from Alan Houston afterwards, which is this about LeBron's reaction. Quote, he didn't give us much feedback, end quote.
- [38:12]
E
Because he was trying to be polite.
- [38:13]
A
So the Heat and the Clippers make their pitch to LeBron on Friday. That's the day after this. Pat Riley does a thing where. Pillowcase of rings, right? Just clattering. Yep, yep. Actual, actual stones. He's bringing that to the table. The Bulls and Cavs pitch on Saturday. And then the Knicks fly to Chicago. The Knicks go to meet Dwayne Wade. They meet Chris Bosh. They, I believe, four days later, sign Amare, of course, Mari Stoudemire.
- [38:40]
D
The Knicks are back.
- [38:41]
A
The Knicks are back. And you might wonder, how did they pitch Dwyane Wade? And something that I want to make clear to you guys is that the New York Knicks, of course, did something very special and unique for Dwyane Wade. Because you might remember how the video with James Gandolfini and Edie Falco started, if you can replay that. Just to remind.
- [39:05]
B
Yeah, I'll take you down, Tony. I'm so glad we moved to New York. Life is so much better now.
- [39:11]
C
Yeah, life's good here, Colin, even if we are in a witness protection program.
- [39:17]
B
Now we just gotta find a place for your friend LeBron to live. What's he like?
- [39:21]
C
He's a modern guy, but he respects tradition.
- [39:25]
A
And so this is how they pitch Dwyane Wade.
- [39:28]
B
Now we just need to find a place for your friend Dwayne to live. What's he like?
- [39:32]
C
He's a modern guy, but he respects tradition.
- [39:36]
A
And you might be wondering, how did they pitch Chris Bosch?
- [39:41]
E
No way.
- [39:41]
B
Well, now we just need to find a place for your friend Chris to live. What's he like?
- [39:46]
C
He's a modern guy, but he respects tradition.
- [39:50]
D
Not even a Christopher Dink?
- [39:52]
C
Christopher Dink. The big picture, huh?
- [39:56]
A
That's a missed opportunity.
- [39:58]
D
No, come on.
- [39:58]
A
That's a missed opportunity.
- [39:59]
D
Not even a Christopher.
- [40:00]
E
You could have brought Adriana through that door. Christopher. And then you fade to black. That might have gotten him.
- [40:06]
A
But then you might wonder, what did. A free agent who's not named LeBron, Chris or Dwayne. Experience. And they got this.
- [40:14]
B
Now we just need to find a place for that basketball player to live.
- [40:17]
E
That's a lot.
- [40:18]
C
He's a modern guy.
- [40:19]
E
No way.
- [40:20]
C
But he respects tradition.
- [40:27]
E
Who was that for?
- [40:28]
D
Ray Felton.
- [40:31]
A
They Sent it again back. They sent it back to Jerome James. So you have this. Oh, God. So the customization of all of this.
- [40:41]
B
Right?
- [40:41]
A
So part of the production, the backstage production is what makes me so happy to have, like, gotten to the bottom of this thing. Because there are a couple of key differences when you examine how they decided to pitch the members of what would be the Miami Heats Championship Big three. Because there was another thing they changed.
- [41:00]
F
You know, when I think of the Road Not Taken, Robert Frost's great poem about a man who makes a decision, the road that he'll travel down. And I think that Dwayne Wade wouldn't come to New York City. I mean, I love Miami, but Miami's a suburb of New York. Dwayne Wade comes to New York City. He immediately takes his place among the greats. I think of that Robert Frost poem, the Road Not Taken, about someone who doesn't take the big road. And I just wonder if Chris Bosh sitting there going, wow, I could have gone to New York. I could have played on the world stage. And I didn't do that. I didn't throw my hat into the greatness ring, you know. You know, I can see him being, you know, 70 year old guy and going, wow, I should have done that, shouldn't I? Well, you know what? Don't be the 70 year old guy.
- [41:47]
C
Just do it.
- [41:48]
A
That's right. Harvey Weinstein, master of knowing what you won't regret.
- [41:52]
D
Oh, my God.
- [41:54]
E
Did they not think that these players talk like, I got what they were gonna say. They showed me a Harvey Weinstein video too, with my name on it. You got one too.
- [42:01]
A
You got. Wait, did you get Robert Frost?
- [42:03]
D
Did he talk about Robert Frost?
- [42:05]
A
You talk about the road not traveled by.
- [42:07]
E
How does that not come up in casual conversation?
- [42:09]
A
Oh, it's incredible. I love to imagine them comparing notes like on the phone in a group chat and being like, hey, did you get the Weinstein thing? Yeah. Well, what about. What about the Chris Rock thing? And then they might realize that they got the.
- [42:23]
C
When you play for the Knicks, D. Wade, you don't have a contract with a team. You have a contract with the city.
- [42:29]
G
Wait, Wade, come on. What you going to do, man? Leave? You did it all there. Now it's time to come to New York.
- [42:39]
A
Chris Bosh did not get custom Chris Rock and Alec Baldwin shout outs.
- [42:42]
D
I mean, oh, boy. Just a. Just one of the indignities that Chris Bosh, one of the most underrated champions of all time, I think has had to suffer despite the incredible success of those years.
- [42:56]
A
Yes, he did, though.
- [42:58]
E
Disrespect of not getting the Chris Rock or Alec Baldwin video, though. It's gonna hurt him if he finds out.
- [43:04]
A
What he got instead was, like, the other two special Photoshop Knicks.
- [43:09]
D
Oh, hell, yeah.
- [43:10]
A
Jerseys. Yeah.
- [43:11]
D
That looks good. I do.
- [43:13]
A
At the end, I want to be. I want to give the Knicks the grace of. This was 14 years ago, and who could know the way that so many of the people in this video would be just, like, brains eaten by the Internet and. Or in jail.
- [43:28]
D
Right.
- [43:29]
A
And yet the idea that LeBron James was like, all right, New York City, what you got? And he saw that is one of the just, like, most heartbreakingly, perversely funny things that I've ever reported.
- [43:42]
E
I'm not gonna lie. After you showed me Weinstein, I thought we were getting Epstein. That's what my fear was, because you kept looking at me like, something's coming.
- [43:52]
A
LeBron I. About winning on an island.
- [43:54]
D
Oh, my God.
- [43:58]
A
Oh, good.
- [44:01]
E
So I guess it could have been worse.
- [44:03]
A
Can we Photoshop that over the final screen? It could have been worse. City of Champions in.
- [44:10]
E
In the. In the blue and orange word art.
- [44:12]
D
Could have been a lot worse.
- [44:14]
A
Could have been worse. We've seen the thing that no one else has seen, and now it becomes clear maybe why people have not seen it and why it hasn't been shown, but it exists. It's real. And you guys walk out of here feeling how.
- [44:43]
E
Unfulfilled. Not because Pablo disappointed, just unfulfilled by.
- [44:47]
A
I'm but a journalist, a purveyor of truth.
- [44:49]
E
I'm just unfulfilled. I feel like LeBron walked out of this meeting with hopes to have joined the Knicks. I don't think it's an accident that that decision was produced in Greenwich, Connecticut, because there was. In case I. They pitched. If I sell, if I buy it in that room, let's book the Boys and Girls Club. Let's get this set up, and if I need to call an audible, I will. I feel like he wanted to go into that meeting wanting to play for the Knicks, and then he walked out. As if it was going to be five years of the same in Cleveland with a lot more of those celebrities.
- [45:32]
D
I think that may have been the case. I leave feeling, you know, grateful that the Knicks, again, are a good team right now, competently run. I grateful that these terrible, terrible, terrible years. Although Amari would go on a heater after this, Amari would go on a legendary heater.
- [45:52]
A
That basketball player, as Carmella called him, went on to be pretty great for three months.
- [45:58]
D
I'm just grateful that these years are done with and that the Knicks are actually being smartly run for once. They're doing the smart thing. They're still chasing stars, but they're doing this a sustainable way. And they have empowered people at the Garden who are just maniacal about winning. Does Tom Thibodeau go home? Where does he sleep? Where does he lay his head?
- [46:21]
A
Tom Thibodeau has no idea who the.
- [46:23]
D
Robert Frost is, has never read a poem, period. He just.
- [46:29]
A
There's one road for Tom Thibodeau, one single road.
- [46:33]
D
He just wants to win. And Leon Rose, his former agent, I would assume, feels the same way. And so, you know, just happy to be of to one have seen this incredible artifact and to also know that it's no longer relevant. It's gone, it's banished from our memory. It no longer matters.
- [46:59]
A
Like Charles Oakley at the Garden. This video is banned from the Garden of our dreams.
- [47:04]
D
Yes.
- [47:06]
A
And I was my. One of my favorite details from trying to get this video is the. As I heard, I heard a whisper that LeBron's people have been trying to find the video.
- [47:16]
D
He just wants to sit at home with a glass of wine and pop it in.
- [47:26]
A
Jason. Rob, thank you for. Thank you for your confidentiality and your. And your feelings.
- [47:32]
E
I don't think we'll get banned for that.
- [47:33]
D
No, I mean, we might.
- [47:44]
A
This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media Production and I'll talk to you next time. Sam.