We Helped Scatter the Ashes of a Die-Hard Fan (PTFO Vault)

Summary

Episode Summary: "We Helped Scatter the Ashes of a Die-Hard Fan (PTFO Vault)"

Release Date: July 29, 2025
Podcast: Pablo Torre Finds Out
Host: Pablo Torre, with correspondent Dave Fleming

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Introduction: Celebrating Unconventional Memorials

In this gripping episode from the PTFO Vault, Pablo Torre and correspondent Dave Fleming delve into the emotional and unconventional world of sports fandom memorials. The episode explores the profound ways fans honor their loved ones by integrating their ashes into the very venues that fueled their passions. This episode contrasts two distinct approaches: one of rebellion and exclusion, and the other of acceptance and celebration.

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Ryan Clark's Bold Tribute: A Forbidden Gesture

Background: A Friendship Forged by Fandom

Ryan Clark and Kyle Stark shared a decade-long friendship bonded by their mutual love for the Colorado Avalanche. Their camaraderie extended beyond the rink, with Kyle serving as Ryan’s best man and their lives intertwined through shared sporting experiences.

The Act: Spreading Ashes on the Ice

In a heartfelt tribute, Ryan decided to spread Kyle's ashes on the Avalanche's home ice during a game against the Toronto Maple Leafs. As Dave Fleming recounts:

"This is part of my goth period, I think." [03:14]

Ryan describes the moment:

"We were Avalanche season ticket holders together, so Thoroughbred fans through and through... One of the best guys I know miss him dearly. If he had the choice whether to breathe air or watch the Avalanche play hockey, he's going to suffocate. You know what I'm saying? He's going to watch the game." [05:33-06:06]

Reactions: Banned but Blessing

Upon depositing Kyle’s ashes on the ice, Ryan was swiftly escorted out and banned for the remainder of the season. Despite the venue's harsh response, Ryan felt no regret:

"No regrets. I did what I needed to do." [10:24]

He witnessed the Avalanche embark on an unprecedented winning streak, attributing their success to Kyle's spirit:

"That's my boy helping him out. That's all I can say." [40:32]

A Growing Trend: Fans Integrating Ashes into Sports Venues

Rising Popularity of Cremation and Personalized Memorials

The episode highlights a significant shift in American death rituals, with cremation becoming increasingly popular and personalized. According to a study by Mutual Choice in 2024:

"Eleven out of the 50 states, the number one place where people wanted to have their ashes left were sports venues." [14:50]

Challenges Faced by Sports Venues

Sports arenas across the nation grapple with the rise of fans attempting to scatter ashes within their premises. Venue managers express fears ranging from maintenance concerns to potential disruptions during events.

"The response I got back was, hey, Dave, nice to hear from you again. Thanks for checking, but we wouldn't be able to participate in this one." [19:35]

Sebring International Speedway: A Beacon of Acceptance

Wayne Estes' Welcoming Approach

Contrasting the Avalanche's stance, Wayne Estes, President and General Manager of Sebring International Speedway in Florida, embodies a welcoming attitude towards fans’ memorials. Estes shares:

"It's a tremendous compliment that a place has that kind of passion that people have... We'll make that work." [28:45-29:20]

Edna Smith's Heartfelt Ceremony

Edna Smith honored her late husband, Ron, by spreading his ashes across the Sebring racetrack. The emotional ceremony was documented by the hosts, showcasing a blend of joy and sorrow:

"He (Ron) would be so Happy that she chose this as a way to sort of memorialize him... This is what he loved." [34:32-35:00]

Anthropological Insights: The Psychology Behind Wildcat Scattering

Dr. Shannon Lee Doughty's Perspective

Anthropologist Dr. Shannon Lee Doughty provides a deeper understanding of this phenomenon:

"There's something that attracts people to it precisely because it may not be allowed. Like, there's something transgressive about that." [22:43-23:00]

She explains that events like 9/11 acted as accelerants, pushing personalized and unconventional memorials into the mainstream. Dr. Doughty coined the term "wildcat scattering" to describe these unapproved acts of spreading ashes.

The Emotional Dichotomy: Joy Mixed with Sorrow

Both Ryan Clark and Edna Smith experience a complex mix of emotions in their memorial practices. While Ryan initially faced exclusion, witnessing his team's success provided solace and a sense of Kyle's enduring presence.

"It was awesome to see. It was awesome to know that he was there during that whole time frame." [40:59-41:15]

Conclusion: Redefining Fandom and Memorialization

The episode wraps up by pondering the future of fan memorials in sports venues. While some arenas remain resistant, others like Sebring International Speedway set a precedent for embracing these heartfelt gestures. The conversation underscores a broader cultural shift towards personalized and meaningful ways of honoring loved ones, highlighting sports as the new communal space where memories and passions converge.

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Notable Quotes:

• “We are living through peach cremation, flabby.” [15:53]
• “He was integrated into the playing surface.” [09:12]
• “It's not just about window treatments. It's about you.” [02:51] (Note: This appears to be part of an advertisement and may not be relevant to the main content.)

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Key Takeaways:

1. Emotional Depth of Fandom: Fans often intertwine their personal lives and grief with their sports passions, seeking unique ways to memorialize loved ones.

2. Venue Policies Vary: While some sports venues strictly prohibit memorial acts like spreading ashes, others embrace and facilitate these personal tributes.

3. Cultural Evolution: American death rituals are evolving towards more personalized and expressive forms, accelerated by significant societal events.

4. Community and Memory: Sports arenas continue to serve as modern communal spaces where collective memories and personal histories intersect.

This episode offers a poignant exploration of how sports fandom transcends mere entertainment, becoming a vessel for deep personal expressions and memorials.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, so hello, it is me, Pablo entering invading even your ears. Because I have done something I have not done before, which is take the advice of someone who once told me that if people wish to support you financially, if they wish to support your journalism, your very strange future of journalism, meaning your newsroom, your ambitions, your desire to investigate things people don't want you to investigate, you should let them. And so I am on Substack my [e-mail]. we'll put a link in the show notes of this episode. I have turned on paid subscriptions and if you didn't know I have a substack, guess what? It's free and that's still there for you and it's worth it. But the paid subscribers who support this show and us will get legitimately cool personalized benefits. We will make it worth your while. We are figuring out here at PTFO our post draftkings future and you know, more good news on that front. I hope to come. But in the meantime, Pablo show is where you sign up. Click the link in the show notes help support us please. Thank you, thank you, thank you on that front and this this episode today is a handpicked episode from deep inside the PTFO vault that we sincerely hope you enjoy. Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre and today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[Edna Smith]

In January of this year, I took Ron's ashes up skydiving right after this ad.

[Dave Fleming]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[Dave Fleming]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[Dave Fleming]

My pleasure.

[Pablo Torre]

It gets big and grandiose and cosmic and profound and stupid and smart and all of that. But this is in the tradition of your study of fandom that began arguably on Death Row in Texas. Our episode last year, which was singular in the genre, but this is ridiculous in its own right.

[Dave Fleming]

This is part of my goth period, I think.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. It's Denver. It's a couple years ago, and it's a news story that starts like this. Interesting story here. Denver7's Christian Lopez spoke to a man who spread his friend's ashes on the Ave's home ice just as the Zamboni was driving by. I'm gonna laugh in ways that I think will be redeemed at some point, but who is this guy?

[Dave Fleming]

So this particular fan, his name is Ryan Clark. And this is the story about Ryan Clark and his best buddy, Kyle Stark. And they were friends for more than a decade. They met at work. Kyle ended up being the best man at Ryan's wedding. And the main thing that they bonded over over the years was their deep love, love of the Colorado Avalanche. And it involved sort of like splitting season tickets. It involved if Kyle couldn't watch a game, he would call Ryan, who would put his phone up to the TV and FaceTime the game to him. There's a stepbrothers feel here of, like, guys who just instantly became best friends over the Colorado Avalanche, right down to.

[Pablo Torre]

What feels like a climactic prat fall, or would be pratfall. But of course, because we are a show based on journalism, you got to know Ryan yourself.

[Dave Fleming]

Yes. We ended up talking to him. He had lost his laptop and he had borrowed a phone, and he was on lunch break. Okay, so where are you today right now?

[Ryan Clark]

Currently out in Bennett, Colorado.

[Dave Fleming]

Like a job site or something?

[Ryan Clark]

Yeah, we were working in the Elizabeth school district, so this is just a little bit north of that right now.

[Pablo Torre]

At a gas station.

[Dr. Shannon Lee Doughty]

Really?

[Dave Fleming]

Do we have a limited amount of time? This whole story just started to just sort of pour out of. Of Ryan from the front seat of his car.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. The reception, terrible. Yeah, the. The sentiment, crystal clear.

[Dave Fleming]

We both.

[Ryan Clark]

We were Avalanche season ticket holders together, so Thoroughbred fans through and through. Him more so than myself. I mean, this dude's coffee table in his living room was a hockey rink that resembled the Pepsi center back when it was that before Ski Link, all arena and just Die Hard. One of the best guys I know miss him dearly. If he had the choice whether to breathe air or watch the Avalanche play hockey, he's going to suffocate. You know what I'm saying? He's going to. He's going to watch the game.

[Dave Fleming]

Well, that didn't disappoint. Right. That's exactly as we advertised.

[Pablo Torre]

I just love that he's recording from like, half an inch away from his face.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah. But you know what's funny is immediately the minute he mentions Kyle's name, you can. You can see the emotions start to bubble up.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Dave Fleming]

They had been best friends for almost a dozen years when after a seizure, Kyle died in 2021. Suddenly. Even speaking years later, it's still very emotional and hard for Ryan to think about.

[Ryan Clark]

It's hard to talk and not get emotional. So it's what I'm trying not to do because I miss. But, yeah, all around. Great individual, very caring, very loving. Way too young. Passed away at 32. So. Way too young.

[Pablo Torre]

But in terms of the thing that got Ryan on the news, him spreading Kyle's ashes on the ice inside their favorite building in the world, I imagine there are some liability concerns, perhaps even criminal fears when it comes to just what might happen to you if you try to do that.

[Dave Fleming]

You're not the only one who thinks that way. Right. Because Ryan and Kyle's family, they set aside bail money, so they got Kyle's ashes into a Ziploc bag, they got tickets to. To a game, and they. They sort of snuck Kyle in.

[Pablo Torre]

Two of the hottest teams in the National Hockey League squaring off tonight, it's the Avalanche and the Leafs.

[Dave Fleming]

And, Pete, last time these two teams.

[Pablo Torre]

Hooked up, it was all. Yeah. January 8, 2022, the Avalanche are hosting the Toronto Maple Leafs. And it's. It's Operation Kyle Car able to shimmy away from Kerfoot. And that will do it for the.

[Dave Fleming]

In between periods, he saw the Zamboni come out, and so he worked his way all the way down to the glass next to the visitor's bench. Basically put one foot up on an armrest of a seat, a front row seat, the other foot teetering on the edge of the boards. A family member of Kyle's is like, holding Ryan, all £340 of Ryan teetering on the boards, supporting him from the backside.

[Pablo Torre]

This is not quite safe.

[Dave Fleming]

Then he gets the Ziploc bag, gets it up to the top of the glass, and then deposits Kyle onto the ice where their beloved Avalanche play.

[Pablo Torre]

Until the Zamboni. And I just want to make this clear. What about the machine that cleans the ice?

[Dave Fleming]

If a hockey fan knows how a Zamboni works, it was kind of genius because it swept up Kyle and repurposed him into the ice. So now Kyle was literally a part of the entire surface in Colorado.

[Pablo Torre]

He was integrated.

[Dave Fleming]

I mean.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Into the playing surface.

[Dave Fleming]

I mean, honestly, from one hockey fan to another, tip of the cap to Ryan. There are die hard fans and then there are die hard fans.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, but what happens after this sequence of events? Like what happens to Ryan?

[Dave Fleming]

Well, when a 300 pound man deposits a strange substance over the boards at a hockey arena, it tends to get people's attention instantly. An usher was kind of like, what'd you just do?

[Ryan Clark]

What was that? I came down and it took less than I'd say. I'd say not even a full minute before somebody, one of the little younger usher kids, came over and was like, hey, so what was that?

[Dave Fleming]

He didn't lie, he didn't run.

[Ryan Clark]

That's when I explained to him what it was and who it was.

[Dave Fleming]

He just kind of said, that was my best friend. He's like. And I just put him on the ice. And so they escorted him out of the seats and into the arena where he was informed he wasn't gonna be arrested, but he was definitely going to be banned from the arena.

[Pablo Torre]

For how long?

[Dave Fleming]

Well, indefinitely at that point. It ended up being for the rest of the season, man.

[Pablo Torre]

And so there is cruelty in that punishment, right? I mean, it's the opposite of what of course you're trying to accomplish here. You're trying to stay in the building with your friend.

[Dave Fleming]

The cops, the usher, everybody associated with the team, and especially all the fans were kind of like, that's the coolest thing I've ever seen. But publicly, you can't do this, right?

[Pablo Torre]

But after Ryan is escorted out of the building and he is banned for the rest of the season, and he's watching these games from home, where he is forced to be, what is going through his mind?

[Dave Fleming]

No regrets. I did what I needed to do.

[Ryan Clark]

Every time I turn that TV on to watch a game, there he is. You know, regardless, just when they're. When they're in that. When I see somebody smash somebody up with boards over there, I'm just like, you got a first few, buddy. There you go.

[Dave Fleming]

Then it becomes a little bit of sadness. There's joy mixed in with sadness. Because it's like when I die. Well, Kyle's gone. I'm Kyle's best friend.

[Ryan Clark]

I'm like sitting there going, who's gonna, who's gonna be that person that can.

[Dave Fleming]

Do it for me?

[Pablo Torre]

And the thing that makes Ryan's story a story for us in this special way is that it becomes very clear, Flem, as we assign you to look into this story, while Ryan Clark is still searching for his own caretaker in this regard, there are so many other Ryan Clarks.

[Dave Fleming]

There is an avalanche of ashes coming, as it were, to your favorite sports arena, your favorite field, your favorite racetrack. It's coming. This trend is happening as we speak.

[Pablo Torre]

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[Dave Fleming]

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[Pablo Torre]

So you can lose more sweat and raise your game. Gatorade is it in you? I do want to establish, Flem, that there are other ways to celebrate your lifelong devotion to a sports team that also involve death and death rituals that aren't quite as dangerous, it seems, as spreading your ashes unilaterally in a special operation.

[Dave Fleming]

Who knew there was a whole cottage industry for fans in the afterlife? You can get your face painted onto a jets custom painted coffin and that has grown into jets urns. And we found a place where they will take your ashes and make them into a golf ball. That you can, that you can, you.

[Pablo Torre]

Can shank unto eternity.

[Dave Fleming]

Not the greatest website name. I'm just going to put that out there too.

[Pablo Torre]

Strong disagree. This place is great. I am on now extra holes.com it says since the game began, golfers have long to spend eternity on the golf course. We've made that possible. You hit the ball and spoiler alert. The ball bursts into, quote several pieces, releasing the ashes into the air for a short distance before settling softly onto the ground. So this is not quite the long drive competition. Okay, it's, or maybe it is in fact the longest drive in a certain sense you are again integrated into, into the surface. And if you're wondering, it is $350 for a dozen balls. And so you know there's a market, Flem, a market for this very sort of thing.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah. And the. The highest form of this is spreading those ashes in what have become our cathedrals, our churches, which are the sports arenas. There was a study in 2024 by Mutual Choice, the company that does insurance policies to cover end of life costs. And they did a survey of Americans, all 50 states where they would want their ashes to be spread. Eleven out of the 50 states, the number one place where people wanted to have their ashes left were sports venues.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. In Alabama the number one response was actually Talladega superseded.

[Dave Fleming]

That surprised me.

[Pablo Torre]

I know, I'm like Brian Denny is right there.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

But noted. Massachusetts, Fenway, North Dakota, the Alaris center, where University of North Dakota football team plays their games. And cremation, by the way, also didn't know this. Finding this out through your research. We are living through peach cremation, flabby.

[Dave Fleming]

Ten years ago, 15 years ago, the ratio cremation to burial was 35 cremation, 65% burial. They're predicting that by 2030 it will be flip flopped. It'll be 75% of Americans will be getting cremated and 25% will still want to be buried.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. All of that research, of course provided by the nfda, which we all know is the National Funeral Directors association, of course. Which raises the question of these sports venues, right. The places that Ryan Clark for instance, had a great interest in, how do they feel about this trend?

[Dave Fleming]

They're scared to death, as it were. They are scared to death and they are doing everything they can to try and subvert it and to press pause.

[Pablo Torre]

Why? What are they so afraid of?

[Dave Fleming]

First of all, we should point out, right, ashes are not, they're not harmful to humans at all. There are no microorganisms in ashes. They're inert. The one thing that they can be harmful to is turf. The alkaline and the sodium levels and the PH levels are high enough that if you were to leave human remains in ashes on really good grass or turf, it could burn it out. Like if you, if you over fertilize your lawn or something like that.

[Pablo Torre]

Right, the salt burn. Basically, yeah. Which means that then the groundskeepers need to dig that stuff up. I can imagine. Pragmatically, this is annoying, but the venues themselves, what do they have to say about this?

[Dave Fleming]

I think there's a legitimate fear, especially amongst football stadiums, that at some point, maybe even during the super bowl, somebody is going to dive for a touchdown and it's going to be a puff of grandpa's ashes come up three yards.

[Pablo Torre]

And a cloud of grandpa.

[Dave Fleming]

Exactly. Well, now we know the title of this. This.

[Pablo Torre]

We really did just name it.

[Dave Fleming]

They are scared to death because they've already become overrun with requests.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. So basically what we're saying is sports has never been more monocultural. It is the lone big tent left in American life. We say this all the time on this show. And they are now worried about copycats, people who are in fact seeing news stories like the one we played.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

For instance, going to baseball now, in the aforementioned Fenway Park, a woman placed.

[Dave Fleming]

Her father's ashes through netting behind home.

[Edna Smith]

Plate at Fenway park and then posted it on Twitter. Now, the field at Fenway, of course, is legendary, and for a lot of people, it's the ultimate resting place.

[Pablo Torre]

But putting a loved one's ashes on.

[Dave Fleming]

The field isn't allowed.

[Pablo Torre]

But one woman says her dad would have been proud that she broke the rules in his honor. Depending on.

[Dave Fleming]

I reached out to half a dozen SEC schools and people wouldn't even respond. People would not be quoted off the record. They didn't want to be referenced. They didn't want to be any part of this because they don't want to encourage more people to leave Grandpa at the 50 yard line.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. Their silence spoke volumes on the college level and in the pros.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah. In the pros, where I have friendships, relationships with PR staffs.

[Edna Smith]

Yes.

[Dave Fleming]

With Frances for 30 years. These people maybe for the first time in my career. And I've done some weird ass stories.

[Pablo Torre]

You truly have.

[Dave Fleming]

One of my closest friends in a very popular afc, very successful AFC franchise was like, phlegm, Whoa. No, I can't. I don't want to be quoted. I don't even want to be mentioned that. You reached out to me, the Cowboys PR guy. I put it really well, if not, not unpoetically. It was like, we don't want a line of hearses lined up outside of our stadium on Sundays.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. I imagine maybe they saw this happen also in Green Bay at Lambeau, where a fan got tackled again, trying to. Trying to do the same thing. During a Packers Eagles game at Lincoln financial field in 2005, this fan ran onto the field spreading his mother's ashes. He dropped to his knees and made the sign of the cross. He was arrested, fined, and the game went on. Packers pr. I imagine not loving this either.

[Dave Fleming]

They were immediately against it. The response I got back was, hey, Dave, nice to hear from you again. Thanks for checking, but we wouldn't be able to participate in this one. It's against the law in Wisconsin and it's against Lambeau Field policy.

[Pablo Torre]

So the building policy understood they don't want this to happen. But citing the law in Wisconsin raises that question of is this illegal in that state and also across the country?

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah, the. I think the Packers PR overstated it a little bit. And that's part of what's leading to this trend is that legally, there are no overarching laws on a federal or a state level that prohibits people from spreading ashes or human remains. But that law then defers to. If it's on private property, you need to get permission. And so obviously, arenas, stadiums, racetracks, baseball fields, that's private property. You need to obtain permission.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. It's their choice to say, in the face of this oncoming avalanche, no. And so in terms of when this trend really took off, do we know historically when the cremation and personalization and this whole thing really did turn to something that became a boom?

[Dave Fleming]

Another fascinating wrinkle to this. Right. We reached out to a professor of anthropology at the University of Chicago. Her name is Dr. Shannon Lee Doughty. She's also the author of American Afterlives, which is this fascinating study of the changes in death rituals in America over the last maybe quarter century.

[Dr. Shannon Lee Doughty]

My specialty is American culture and archaeology and history up to the present.

[Dave Fleming]

And her theory is that it was 911 really began to change things.

[Dr. Shannon Lee Doughty]

There were things that were happening in terms of increasing options and personalization and certainly a steady growth in the US of cremation. But 911 acted like, I guess you would say, an accelerant to these trends where things just rapidly changed after that, particularly a move towards cremation and the very and very personalized kind of ad hoc rituals and memorials.

[Dave Fleming]

She thinks there have been more changes in American death rituals in the last 10 years than the last 100 combined.

[Pablo Torre]

But because this is all against the rules, it. It does feel rebellious in a way. Is she familiar with this specific phenomenon, this dynamic?

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah. She even coined the phrase wildcat scattering.

[Dr. Shannon Lee Doughty]

There's something that attracts people to it prec. Precisely because it may not be allowed. Like, there's something transgressive about that. And a transgressive ritual, it seems like. Like if you're taking a risk to honor the person, it seems like you're honoring them, you know, a little more.

[Pablo Torre]

You're not supposed to do this, right.

[Dave Fleming]

Like, I love you so much, I will risk jail to spread your ashes. It's one of the strongest urges that. That we possess as animals. And sports more and more is the only place that people can turn to, to. To fulfill that psychological need. And I think the fact that someone would choose a sports venue as their final resting place or that they would risk to do that for someone they loved, it proves that this isn't a theory. This is happening. It's happened.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. It does occur to me that we are living at a time when people are fretting about the decline of communal spaces, the secularization of America, the decline of religiosity. But the thing that no one is worried about from a market perspective and a popularity perspective is sports. And post pandemic especially, it does feel like an arena full of people is our house of worship. It's never felt more special.

[Dr. Shannon Lee Doughty]

Actually, a hundred years ago, about. A French anthropologist, sociologist named Emile Durkheim called this feeling that we get when we're experienced a spectacle in a group of people where everybody's in one space and going through an experience of awe or elation together. And he called that collective effervescence. And think of, like, bubbling up. Right. And that makes people conscious of the group, of something bigger than themselves. And it is. It causes an experience of euphoria, and it also makes that group stronger. When everybody disperse itself, they remember that special feeling of collective effervescence. And if they keep coming back, it can become addictive. And I think that sports events and sports stadiums, if you're not losing too badly, has that effect.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. That is where I want to just push back on Dr. Dowdy, because I do think the resiliency of a miserable jet cowboy. Fill in the blank sports fan. The losing almost never gets in the way of their. Of their true love, in the way that you logically might think.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah, the suffering is what proves the faith.

[Pablo Torre]

But this is why I am frustrated to hear these venues, these. These cathedrals, say actually to their most devoted parishioners, we don't want you to bring your loved ones in that form here. That seems to be a tremendous bummer when it comes to the rules.

[Dave Fleming]

It's not gonna work. It won't hold. Right. This trend is. It's. It's just. It's too powerful, it's too strong, it's too popular. And they're just stupid to not try and figure out a happy medium or to meet their fans somewhere in between, where it's like, okay, if. If Grandpa was a Georgia Bulldog fan, we'll figure out a way to get him sort of. We'll put them in the stadium somewhere and celebrate that. This is. I mean, can there be a higher form of fandom, of tribute?

[Pablo Torre]

What would it look like if you embraced The Ryan Clarks of the world instead of banned them.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah. Can we find someone who's doing this?

[Pablo Torre]

Can we convince someplace.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah. To just to embrace this? What is it? What would it look like if a sports venue embraced this and encouraged fans to do this? And we managed to find that exact spot down in Florida, of course.

[Pablo Torre]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing.

[Dave Fleming]

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[Ryan Clark]

Better get 30, 30. Better get 30. Better get 20. 20, 20. Better get 20. You better get 15.

[Dave Fleming]

15, 15, 15.

[Ryan Clark]

Just 15 bucks a month.

[Pablo Torre]

Sold.

[Dave Fleming]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch.

[Pablo Torre]

Upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. New customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow. After 35 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com the McDonald's snack wrap is back. You brought it back.

[Dave Fleming]

Ranch snack wrap.

[Pablo Torre]

Spicy snack wrap.

[Dave Fleming]

You broke the Internet for a snack.

[Pablo Torre]

Snack wrap is back. So what Cathedral in Florida Flem agrees with our sensibility here at Pablo Torre finds out.

[Dave Fleming]

So we found Wayne Estes, who is the president and general manager of Sebring International Speedway in Sebring, Florida. Hello, everybody, and welcome to a packed Sebring International Raceway, the original home of.

[Pablo Torre]

Formula One here in the U.S. and.

[Dave Fleming]

Of course, down through its considerable history since the 1950s, has been a mecca for sports car fans, drivers and teams.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, and this track, by the way, in Sebring, Florida, America's oldest road racing track. But all sorts of races of all kinds are held there and have been for decades upon decades.

[Dave Fleming]

And accordingly, they have a very different policy toward their fans and toward their fans ashes than say, oh, the Colorado Avalanche.

[Wayne Estes]

You get the phone call and they almost always would start the same way. It would be, I'll bet you've never had this request before or this is going to be a very unusual request. And almost every time someone says that to me now, I think I got a feeling this is someone who's lost a loved one and wants to distribute the ashes here.

[Dave Fleming]

We need way more Wayne in the sports world. And one of the things he immediately talked about was, why wouldn't you do this to me?

[Wayne Estes]

It was a. It was a tremendous compliment to the venue, to the, to the racetrack, to the event. And I still see it that way here at Sebring as well. It's a tremendous compliment that a place has that kind of passion that people have that kind of passion for the event, for the. For the venue. And that first time, I didn't ask anybody, I just said, yeah, we'll. We'll make that work.

[Ryan Clark]

We'll.

[Wayne Estes]

We'll go wherever we have to go. Where do you want to go?

[Dave Fleming]

And accordingly, they have a very different policy toward their fans and toward their fans Ashes than say, oh, the Colorado Avalanche.

[Wayne Estes]

How do you turn somebody away that it makes that request? I mean, it's just a phenomenal honor that anybody would ask that to. To make that kind of a gesture at the venue where you're promoting events.

[Dave Fleming]

So Wayne has had as many as three cremation ceremonies in a single weekend, and people, you know, pile up.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, potentially.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah. And it's funny. People. Some people want to go in in a turn, some people want to go at the start, finish line, some people want to go in pit row, and Wayne accommodates it all. We took to his attitude right away, and I stayed in touch with Wayne, you know, as the PTFO death correspondent, that's part of my job.

[Pablo Torre]

This is your beat.

[Dave Fleming]

Yep. And Wayne, God love him, reached out a couple days later and said, you know, I was just contacted by another fan who is hoping to spread her husband's ashes at the track. And of course, I asked if I could tag along.

[Pablo Torre]

And of course, we assigned you to go down to Florida.

[Dave Fleming]

Get to Florida Flem.

[Pablo Torre]

Who are you there to meet?

[Dave Fleming]

So we got to meet this lovely woman named Edna Smith, who was at the track to remember her late husband Ron, who loved all things racing, all things cars, all things mechanical.

[Edna Smith]

He always was very avid about air and space and cars and fast cars. We probably had. In his lifetime of cars, he had 30 some cars, and my friends couldn't attest to that, you know, and they were all very unusual cars and fun. Fun to drive.

[Dave Fleming]

Did he have a favorite, favorite car, favorite kind?

[Edna Smith]

Yeah, he had an E type Jaguar xke. That was a nice car. That was probably his favorite that he ever had.

[Dave Fleming]

So you were married to James Bond is what you're saying.

[Edna Smith]

Or want to be.

[Pablo Torre]

So as we're watching Edna stand on the track with you, whose idea was it to scatter Ron's ashes across the track?

[Dave Fleming]

She wanted to do something that honored him, celebrated his life, the things that he loved, but then also would give her a eternal connection to him, that she could watch races there, she could return to the track and always be sort of closer to him. So it was. It was Edna's idea.

[Edna Smith]

The ashes sat For a while before I, you know, thought about what I could do to. In honor of his memory, you know, and the first thing I came up was to go skydiving. So I did. In January of this year, I took Ron's ashes up skydiving. And I was really, really nervous, but it was the mission accomplished. I was just covered with his ashes all over me because the wind blew the wrong way. And it was like, oh, my heavens. But it was. Yeah, it was awesome. Really awesome. And then I still had half of his ashes left, so I think, what else can I do? And my friends kind of helped me with the idea. The Sebring racetrack, you know, take his ashes over there.

[Pablo Torre]

And to be clear, we are honored that she allowed us to be there for it.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, it was. We were sort of humbled by that, and we approached it that way, that we were there to observe and to not get in the way. And we understood that this was a. This was a very sort of important, solemn moment.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. And I want to make clear, too, that one of my real joys on this show is to send people out into the world, you often in specific, and then finally find out what this religious, profound ceremony for Edna and Ron was like. And so I have not seen this video yet. So let's hit play. Beautiful blue sky. Edna in the backseat of a convertible.

[Dave Fleming]

Yep. And they let us put a GoPro behind her. So she's got Ron's remains in. In a Ziploc baggie, and she's in a convertible provided by Wayne. And we are going down the main straightaway. She's reaching into the Ziploc bag and she is throwing Ron. And you can hear her giggling. Right. She's giggling and she's talking to him. Right. She's smiling. She's giggling. She's talking to him. Every 10 seconds, a handful of Ron is going onto the straightaway at Sebring.

[Pablo Torre]

And also everywhere else, I think thing.

[Dave Fleming]

Ron is in the car, he's in the seats. And Ron's going all over Edna, too.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, yeah. Ron is omnipresent. Yes. She's emptying the Ziploc. Rarely is cremation also a joyride.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah, at one point. So then we were in a minivan in front of them as well, and. And they were stepping on the gas because it's hard to be on.

[Pablo Torre]

Her hair's blowing in the breeze. Her sunglasses are on.

[Dave Fleming]

She's grinning. The way she explained it was kind of like Ron wouldn't be jealous, but he would be so Happy that she chose this as a way to sort of memorialize him. This is what he loved. And to see her so happy too. Because you cannot get on this track and not floor it, right? It's like we, they, they gave us access to the track and it was like I kept going, punch it. Punch it, Wayne, punch it. When she got out of the car, she patted her pants and just poofs of smoke or ash came up and, and I love that. I just love that. You can see, you can see there are, I mean Ron, God love him, and there ended up being handprints, fingerprints. It's funny how quickly you get connected to somebody like that when they share a moment like this. And I went out because there were still piles of ashes. Every so often we all kind of went out and said goodbye to Ron. Now you understand why people are willing to go to jail to do this. Because it means it's beautiful, man. Yeah, it really means something more than just going to a gravestone.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, it's absurd and it's beautiful and it is, of course, deeply serious. It's also light hearted and something we can celebrate as we marvel upon the ridiculous nature of what it means to be a human being.

[Dave Fleming]

Just something so poetic and beautiful about this ceremony and the fact that it is a mess, that it's unpredictable, that the ashes go everywhere. When was the last time you were at a traditional funeral or a cemetery and people were giggling and laughing and talking to the deceased and sort of it was a celebration and I think that's part of the changing death rituals in America. That's what people want. They want a celebration of life. And boy, you just saw it there in living color.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, Ron is going to be a part of that track, a part of Edna and also definitely in the upholstery, I think based on just the statistical distribution of what I was witnessing there in that video.

[Dave Fleming]

Well, and here's the thing. Ron is also a part of your favorite, favorite correspondent Ron. At one point, Ron blew into our camera, into our microphone cover. Ron. Boy, Ron gets around.

[Pablo Torre]

I just cannot say this enough. Thank you to Edna for letting us celebrate Ron with her. Yeah, because it reminds me of what we started the story with, which is Ryan, die hard hockey fan who didn't have the same welcome mat laid out for him after he tried to do this for his loved one.

[Dave Fleming]

But luckily that was not the end of the story for Ryan and Kyle and the Colorado Avalanche.

[Dr. Shannon Lee Doughty]

On WhatsApp. No one can see or hear your personal messages, whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends and your family. No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[Pablo Torre]

You say you'll never join the Navy, never climb Mount Fuji on a port visit, or break this down barrier. Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Learn [e-mail], america's Navy forged by the sea. Okay, so now we're back in Colorado Flem with the story of Ryan Clark and his best friend, Kyle Stark. And you mentioned that this was not the end for Ryan, his banning from his favorite building for the rest of that season. So what the happened?

[Dave Fleming]

Something magical happened once Kyle became a part of Ball arena.

[Pablo Torre]

Sweeping it, far side delivers.

[Dave Fleming]

They win that game against the Leafs 5, 4 in overtimes.

[Pablo Torre]

Rips it past Campbell and the comeback is complete.

[Dave Fleming]

Then they go on this incredible streak. They don't lose another game inside Kyle's arena for a month. Which is unheard of, right? It's unheard of.

[Pablo Torre]

The Avalanche beat the division rival Minnesota Wild 43 to shoot out at Ball Arena.

[Dave Fleming]

Century Pants scores. Wynter Scott the overtime winner. It's unheard of in, in, in hockey, especially as they're trying to build toward the playoffs. And as a Red Wings fan, I'm watching the Avalanche going. What is going on with the Avalanche? Can't lose.

[Pablo Torre]

Here's mcar lucid road. Arturi Len has scored. He sent his team in overtime to the Stanley Cup Final. All I can think about a of course is that Ryan can't be there. He's at home watching all of these games. He cannot witness the streak because he's been banned.

[Dave Fleming]

But, you know, I think in Ryan's mind, it's perfect.

[Ryan Clark]

That's my boy helping him out. That's all I can say. You know, that was a, an extra body power play. So you're going, you know, you're going six on, on four as opposed to, you know, five on four. And you know, everybody in that corner, he's grabbing their legs. Yeah, hold on, bud. You're going to stay here.

[Pablo Torre]

It is hard to deny the impact of Kyle Stark.

[Ryan Clark]

It was awesome to see. It was awesome to know that he was there during that whole time frame, that whole, that whole play out. And I'm sorry that I look away. I just try not to break down again because it's. Yeah, It's. It's still fresh, even though it's been a few.

[Dave Fleming]

Part of the emotion, though, is joy, right?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Ryan Clark]

Yes, Absolutely, yes. Like when they dropped that banner. I wish I could have been there for that game because they should put Kyle's name on the bottom of it, you know, or at least. At least his initials on the cup in the corner, you know, like, what is this? Ks? Don't worry about that. Just. Just hang it in that. You know, take that layer. That layer off. Put a fresh one on.

[Pablo Torre]

We're listening to Ryan, yet another person in this episode getting emotional in a car, celebrate what his team, their team, pulled off thanks to his best friend, Manson to McKinnon. Bouncing puck and a goal. Arturi Lekkanen makes it two 1. Colorado, his team won the Stanley. Stanley Cup. The dream.

[Dave Fleming]

The dream. Phlegm man, can they spread some Kyle in Detroit.

[Pablo Torre]

Five seconds to go up. It comes to the line. Colorado has won the Stanley cup. And in the present tense, of course, Ryan can go back to Ball Arena.

[Dave Fleming]

He was. He was only sort of kept out of the arena for the rest of that season, and then he was allowed to come back.

[Pablo Torre]

You can go back to the building where his favorite team plays. And when he is there now, I imagine that all of this feels. Feels different.

[Dave Fleming]

Different, but in a great way. And so now every time, again, you saw it with Edna, you see it with Ryan. He feels Kyle's presence there. He talks to Kyle when he's in that arena. He's got a place where he can sort of visit his friend forever now.

[Pablo Torre]

And I am just left at the end of this episode wondering about that question, which is when Kyle said, I'm.

[Ryan Clark]

Like, sitting there going, who's gonna be that person that can do it for me? When, you know.

[Pablo Torre]

The biggest question posed in this episode, maybe.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah. I think what we've discovered is there's now a new highest form of friendship and fandom.

[Pablo Torre]

Absolutely right.

[Dave Fleming]

It's like somebody willing to spread your ashes, Wildcat. Spread your ashes at your favorite sports arena. But as for Ryan, it's a little bit sad, right? His person is gone. He doesn't have a person to spread his ashes. And so as the official, now lifelong PTFO death correspondent, I went ahead and volunteered right here, Ryan. I got you. I got you. I got. I got media credentials. I'll put you wherever you want to go. And I. I know we're joking and laughing and. But, you know, at the end of this process, I got to tell you, I'm 100% serious. I will be there for Ryan when he needs me.

[Pablo Torre]

Tay Fleming, I have never doubted your sincerity on these assignments. And I already. Whenever it. Whenever it needs to be long into the future, I am ready.

[Dave Fleming]

Well, we're gonna turn you into golf balls, Pablo. So.

[Pablo Torre]

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media Production and I'll talk to you next time.