What the World's Greatest (Two-Handed) Bowler Can Teach You About Daring to Look Stupid

Summary

Pablo Torre Finds Out
Le Batard & Friends
Episode: "What the World's Greatest (Two-Handed) Bowler Can Teach You About Daring to Look Stupid"
Date: February 20, 2024

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Episode Overview

In this episode, host Pablo Torre embarks on a deep-dive into the story of Jason Belmonte, the world’s greatest two-handed bowler, to examine the emotional and professional risks of "daring to look stupid." Torre explores how Belmonte’s iconoclastic approach transformed both the sport of bowling and perceptions about failure, innovation, and embracing ridicule. Along the way, Pablo draws sporting and cultural parallels, discusses the personal costs of breaking from convention, and undergoes his own crash course in two-handed bowling.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ben Simmons Problem (00:45–05:00)

• Pablo and Jason open by riffing on Ben Simmons and his much-criticized free throw technique.

• Main Idea: Many athletes avoid unconventional solutions—even if more effective—because they fear looking foolish.

• Torre and Belmonte discuss Rick Barry’s "granny style" and how, despite effectiveness, it gets dismissed due to aesthetics.

  "As embarrassing as that looks, it's not as embarrassing as what Ben Simmons is doing, because the ball’s going in the net like 89% of the time."
  — Pablo Torre (02:52)

• Discussion includes how the Korean Basketball League is normalizing bank-shot free throws, again proving odd-looking methods can work if adopted boldly.

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2. The Fosbury Flop Parable (05:01–07:00)

• Torre references Dick Fosbury, who revolutionized the high jump with a backward technique initially mocked for its awkwardness.

• Parallel Drawn: Sports history is full of change-makers who had to look ridiculous before changing the game.

  "Sports is such a great case study in the ways in which people's desire to not look stupid make them worse at their jobs."
  — Pablo Torre (04:32)

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3. Enter Jason Belmonte: The Two-Handed Revolution (07:23–16:00)

• Pablo meets Jason Belmonte at a Times Square bowling alley and introduces his technique: gripping the ball with two hands (and NOT using his thumb), generating immense power and spin.

• Background: Grew up in rural Australia where his parents, non-bowlers, built a bowling alley; he learned two-handed style as a toddler using heavy balls.

• Resistance: From ages 5–10, coaches and peers pressured him to bowl "the right way." At a national clinic, he’s publicly dismissed:

  "If you ever want to be a great bowl...we need you to put your thumb in the ball, and we need you to bowl traditionally."
  — Jason Belmonte (12:41)

• In a defining moment, Belmonte defied them, won the clinic tournament bowling his way, and then declined the prize out of stubbornness and pride.

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4. Facing Tradition and Hostility (16:00–23:10)

• Arrival in America: Belmonte describes cultural pushback when debuting on the U.S. bowling circuit. He was heckled for being foreign and for his technique—called a "travesty" by traditionalists.

• Pablo reads old criticisms, like Mike Devaney dismissing Belmonte's style on live TV (19:17), and a legend calling him "a cancer to an already diseased sport" (20:54).

• Belmonte’s Perspective:

  "If my score was worse than theirs, they probably wouldn't care."
  — Jason Belmonte (20:39)

• The "cheating" accusation cuts deepest, because his technique is not against the rules, only against tradition.

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5. The Triumph and the Legacy (23:10–32:00)

• Belmonte is now the most decorated bowler of his generation: 15 major titles, 7 Player of the Year awards.

• Humble-brags about the meager financial rewards compared to other sports but cherishes his influence:

  "There's no one else on this planet that can bowl a ball at 10 pins better than me. And that is a really cool thing to say."
  — Jason Belmonte (24:15)

• He now gets a theme song, written by a fan, played for every strike (25:25).

• Pablo notes Belmonte’s unique willingness to troll his critics—most famously via a tongue-in-cheek video about his fake "Singular Chirophobia," or “fear of using one hand.”

  "I don't mind trolling the trolls back…Hey, I bowl with two hands, but don't hate me. I have this problem."
  — Jason Belmonte (26:42)

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6. From Outcast to Blueprint: The New Generation (30:20–36:00)

• Belmonte’s once-mocked method is now emulated by up to 30% of bowlers globally.

• Emotional highpoint as he reflects on turning ridicule into a movement:

  "The overwhelming feeling of seeing a change of an evolution...that's one of those like me moments."
  — Jason Belmonte (31:53)

• Talented young two-handed bowlers are winning titles—and coming for Belmonte’s legacy. He graciously acknowledges the cycle of revolution:

  "Could you not have come like five years later, like, let me have retired? ... Now you have to be creative."
  — Jason Belmonte (35:23, 35:38)

• He compares himself to Tiger Woods and Steph Curry, as paradigm-shifters facing a new wave of imitators.

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7. Bowling Tutelage: Pablo’s Humbling (40:00–46:41)

• Pablo asks Belmonte to coach him for an office bowling tournament.

• Scene includes playful, self-deprecating banter as Pablo attempts the two-handed style—resulting in a gutterball, some gentle sexual innuendo, and eventual incremental improvement.

  "For the podcast audience, they're in there."
  — Pablo Torre, on sticking his fingers in Belmo’s ball (44:47)

• After intensive coaching, Pablo improves, gets a spare, and brags he’ll crush his staff.

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8. The Postscript: Lessons Learned (46:50–End)

• Pablo recaps his tournament result: he lost, despite Belmonte’s coaching and using the two-handed style.

• He draws a final, full-circle connection to Ben Simmons:

  "What I found out today is actually that I find myself relating at the end here to Belmo's fellow Australian in a cruel bit of irony. Ben Simmons didn't come through in the clutch. I didn't win...I should just be man enough to admit that. Okay, this is hard. It's supposed to be hard, right?"
  — Pablo Torre (47:20)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “As embarrassing as that looks, it's not as embarrassing as what Ben Simmons is doing, because the ball’s going in the net like 89% of the time.” — Pablo Torre (02:52)
• “If you ever want to be a great bowl...we need you to put your thumb in the ball, and we need you to bowl traditionally.” — Jason Belmonte (12:41)
• “If my score was worse than theirs, they probably wouldn't care.” — Jason Belmonte (20:39)
• “There's no one else on this planet that can bowl a ball at 10 pins better than me. And that is a really cool thing to say.” — Jason Belmonte (24:15)
• “I don't mind trolling the trolls back…Hey, I bowl with two hands, but don't hate me. I have this problem.” — Jason Belmonte (26:42)
• “The overwhelming feeling of seeing a change of an evolution...that's one of those like me moments.” — Jason Belmonte (31:53)
• “Could you not have come like five years later, like, let me have retired? ... Now you have to be creative.” — Jason Belmonte (35:23, 35:38)
• “For the podcast audience, they're in there.” — Pablo Torre (44:47)
• “What I found out today is actually that I find myself relating at the end here to Belmo's fellow Australian in a cruel bit of irony. Ben Simmons didn't come through in the clutch. I didn't win...I should just be man enough to admit that. Okay, this is hard. It's supposed to be hard, right?” — Pablo Torre (47:20)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:45 – The Ben Simmons free throw dilemma & the fear of ridicule
• 05:01 – Dick Fosbury and the high jump revolution
• 07:23 – Meeting Jason Belmonte: two-handed bowling explained
• 12:41 – Childhood rejection at the national bowling clinic
• 16:00 – Hostility in the US; criticism from traditionalists
• 20:54 – Accused of being a “cancer” to the sport
• 24:15 – Belmonte on being the best in the world
• 26:42 – Responding to trolls & “Singular Chirophobia”
• 31:53 – Emotional impact of inspiring new bowlers
• 35:38 – Creatively staying ahead of imitators
• 44:47 – Pablo’s coaching, gutterball, and progress
• 47:20 – Final reflection: losing, learning, and embracing difficulty

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Tone and Language

• Conversational, sardonic, and often self-deprecating.
• Authentically blending earnest narrative with playful banter and dry humor.
• Candid about failure, embarrassment, and triumph (both Torre’s and Belmonte’s).

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Summary

This episode is an incisive and playful exploration of what it takes to embrace innovation, endure ridicule, and reframe looking stupid as the precursor to real transformation—not just in sports, but in life. Jason Belmonte’s journey from bowling pariah to global trailblazer offers a case study in risky authenticity and perseverance—showing that today’s “stupid” can be tomorrow’s “genius.” For Pablo, it’s also a reminder that doing something the hard or unconventional way—win or lose—can change the game, if you’re bold enough to try.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[Jason Belmonte]

Is. I have a condition. Singular Chirophobia. The fear of using one hand.

[Pablo Torre]

Right after this ad. You're listening to Giraffe Kings. You just said that you need to censor yourself for this because I want to talk about Ben Simmons, bro. You know how I feel about Ben Simmons. I've said some things off the record about Ben Simmons that I think are actually. Yeah. Beyond the pale. Like, too. Too much that are actually true.

[Jason Belmonte]

Potentially so.

[Pablo Torre]

So Ben Simmons. For people who don't know Ben Simmons Overall pick, former Philadelphia 76 or now Brooklyn Net. Is back playing basketball. He came back, fortunately just weeks ago after being away and. And you and many people are already all over his existence. He's an embarrassment, and I don't know why he's still doing this to himself. Have never stopped sh. Tting all over his existence. I should say, just go enjoy your millions of dollars and watch Love is Blind. Like, why are you continuing to embarrass yourself? You want him to just give up, bro? Just enjoy the rich, like the spoils that you created. I'm not here to say that Ben Simmons should be free from criticism. I call him, specifically, I call him a flying car without a stereo.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Which sounds awesome. Until he's like, hey, shoot the ball. And then what does he look like? That's the stereo Camry or something. Like, enough. That's the stereo. So, look, I actually agree with you on this level. He needs to do something different about his shot. And many people have been saying this to him. And he does refuse to change. And that part has been very frustrating for me. The guy who's trying to carve out the lonely job of being Ben Simmons political strategist. I've been trying to send him these messages around, like, do something different about your shot.

[Jason Belmonte]

Because.

[Pablo Torre]

There have been many people who have struggled at the free throw line, specifically where Ben Simmons is abysmal. Ben Simmons. And he misses again. He's missed five consecutive free throws. Now he's abysmal to the point where he's afraid even to, like, really drive to the hoop in the same way because he's afraid he'll get fouled. This was the whole thing with the Hawks, you know, where he passed the ball in game seven with the Sixers. And it was traumatic for me. And I just can point to many examples where, like, hey, Rick Barry became a over 80% free throw shooter. 89% because he did what he shot granny style with two hands, like. And Rick Barry's been saying this forever. With my two handed, underhanded free throw, it's a lot easier, I feel, to get in a relaxed situation.

[Jason Belmonte]

I like to bounce the ball, arms.

[Pablo Torre]

Hang down, my knees are bent, I'm relaxed. Cock the wrists, follow through. So do that. The thing is, as embarrassing as that looks, it's not as embarrassing as what Ben Simmons is doing, because the ball's going in the net like 89% of the time. I do want to be fair to Ben Simmons, his free throw stats here, because career. Yeah, he's. This is bad. What's the number? Go ahead.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Sub 60%. 59%. Career. Bro, bro, I'm not even kidding you. I could do better than that. Sub 50%. No one's guarding him at the free throw line. You understand that? And in fact, he's taking fewer free throws than ever so far this year. Pathetic. Less than 1 a game because he doesn't want to even try. No, it's pathetic. The other thing that's just crazy about this to me, if he will listen to me for a second, Ben will listen to me, is that in Korea in the Korean basketball league, they're doing something completely different from Rick Barry that's also working because watch this. Cortez, look at this. So this is Korean basketball, and these guys are deliberately shooting bank shots. Oh, interesting. At the free throw line, huh? And so all of these, they, yes, they look stupid as hell, deliberately trying to shoot it off the glass, but these guys are collectively shooting like Rick Barry, over 80% doing this. It's working, clearly. It's ironic, right? You don't want to be humiliated, and so you do something repeatedly, over and over again that results in more humiliation when the real solution, I would argue, is to embrace a technique that everybody does and has for a very long time laughed at. No, that's well said. And so if he started doing this and looked like an imbecile in his eyes, he'd look less like an imbecile in my eyes because the ball would be going in the net. And he's trying something different, right? And so to me, sports history is full of these things. Sports is. Is such a great case study in the ways in which people's desire to not look stupid make them worse at their jobs. Right? Like, so, for instance, I've been thinking a lot about Dick Fosberry.

[Jason Belmonte]

Who?

[Pablo Torre]

Dick Fosberry is the guy who changed the high jump. He was an Olympian. 1968, Mexico City Summer games, he changes the high jump because, as he explains it, he did this.

[Jason Belmonte]

When I was in grade school at Roosevelt, I learned the scissors style, which was an old style. Got into high school, where my coach tried to convert me to the classic style. I was a complete failure. Went back to the scissors, and I changed it. I moved my body position in order to jump higher and make it easier. He does the whole thing facing backwards. The way he came it was so radically different that it garnered a lot of attention.

[Pablo Torre]

And everywhere I went, the crowd was going nuts.

[Jason Belmonte]

It took a generation for all of the high jumpers to adopt it, but today it's universal.

[Pablo Torre]

I saw you. I saw you. Saw me what? Very, very obviously grinning as soon as he said I was scissoring. But he changed it to the point where he now moves his center of gravity because he's going backwards head first over the bar. And he inspired literally everybody else in the sport to do the same thing. And it looks stupid at first, and so I wanted to do an episode today. Did you just burp? I cleared my throat. If you wanted me to burp, I'll burp into the microphone. I don't want you to. Okay, very good. What I wanted to do, speaking of looking stupid, is find the foremost example, as an inspiration, potentially, for Ben Simmons, for a guy who did exactly this. Right. A more modern example, because they decided to look dumb, got better and changed everything. And so I had to go bowling. Really? That's right. You probably suck at bowling. Not anymore. We are sitting here at a bowling alley. I don't think I've bowled in maybe a dozen years. So this is not my comfort zone. Leaving the studio and sitting here across from you. Do I call you Jason? Do I call you Belma? What should I be doing here?

[Jason Belmonte]

It doesn't matter. I'm good with either one. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

So I just want to even further simplify it. You're the two hander.

[Jason Belmonte]

I'm the two hander. Yeah. I bow with two hands.

[Pablo Torre]

When you mention two handedness, you sort of imagine Rick Barry in my mind, like, granny style. Like, underhand, like.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yeah, it doesn't quite look like that.

[Pablo Torre]

So I should just explain what Jason Belmonte's iconoclasm actually looks like here, because Belmo and I have just finished lacing up our bowling shoes here at Bolero, this place in Times Square. And what I can tell you is that the dude's like 5, 10, 40 years old, dark hair, light beard. We talked about our kids for a little bit. He's just this deeply unthreatening and unassuming looking dad. Unless of course, you are a professional bowler, in which case the man is a revolutionary. Because as every instructional bowling VHS tape throughout time will teach you, real bowlers roll the ball with one hand with their thumb in the thumb hole. This is basically the first law of bowling biomechanics. Fred. You know, through the years I've had a chance to watch the greatest players in our game. And without question, they all have a master plan to greatness, Miss Denny. And that's what we'd like to share with our players today is one, the.

[Jason Belmonte]

Biomechanical movements to the foul line, the.

[Pablo Torre]

Movements of the body, but the movements of Belmo's body are extremely different. This isn't Granny's style. He's actually grasping the ball with two hands at the same time and he refuses to stick his thumb in the thumb hole at all. And so then he rolls the ball with both hands from his right side, having swung it backwards and then forwards, generating this truly impressive amount of velocity. Here's the top seat. His first ball looks good. Not sure I expected anything different. And so what I wanted to find out here first is just how Belmo wound up resembling and really epitomizing, by conventional bowling standards, a completely idiotic technique.

[Jason Belmonte]

The action is from the side of the body, it's not from between the legs. And so you've got this athletic kind of approach.

[Pablo Torre]

I want people who are not watching on YouTube in the DraftKings network to know that Jason just put athletic and scare quotes with his fingers.

[Jason Belmonte]

Well, because I think the traditional sense of the word athleticism is high energy or, you know, huge exertion of power. Where bowling is more like golf, right, where you can see an athletic swing. And so the game has changed. It is more athletic now than it ever was. And so my parents built a bowling centre when I was born in Australia. In Australia, small little country town. They'd never bowled a bowl in their life. Purely a business idea that came to them through family conversation. And so they weren't coaches, they weren't experienced players themselves.

[Pablo Torre]

They didn't inherit the traditions of bowling.

[Jason Belmonte]

And to be truthful, I don't think they cared about how I bowled. I was 18 months old when I rolled my very first bowling ball. Today we have really light bowling balls, but in the 80s they hadn't developed super light balls yet. They were quite heavy. And so as an 18 month old toddler, I would kind of like grab the ball and roll it off the ball, return it it hit the floor, and I would push it and try and lift it up and then just kind of roll it down the lane as best as I could. And so until I was old enough where that ball was light enough for me to throw it, traditionally, I had too many years of me bowling in this way to just enable me to bowl, which was with two hands, that bowling traditionally didn't feel like me. And so it was probably from the ages of, like, 5 through 10 where you hear the, come on, you're a big boy now, right? Like, you can bowl like everyone else. And I was like, but this is just how I've always done it. There is one moment in particular that I will. I will never forget. There was this huge coaching clinic ran by Australia's, the Australian team, the national team, coaches, selectors. It was this huge event. And so we get there, I sign up, it's my turn now to perform in front of the coaches. And so I bowl my style. And the coaches are looking at me, they don't say anything, and I bowl another shot. And the coaches say, okay, now that you've done mucking around here, can you. Can you throw one properly, please? So I'm thinking, like, maybe they want more strikes. Like, I gotta get strikes. I throw a ball, I get a strike. I'm quite proud of myself. And they time me out and they go, okay, listen, we don't know what you're doing here. If you ever want to be a great bowl, if you ever want to represent your country, if you ever want to win championships, you're going to have to bowl the way that we're going to teach it. So we need you to put your thumb in the ball, and we need you to bowl traditionally. And so I humored them for that moment. And it killed me, because here was the very first time a true bowling authority, right?

[Pablo Torre]

The actual institution of the game.

[Jason Belmonte]

The actual institution of the game ripped me apart. They wouldn't help me, the kids wouldn't bowl with me, and it was just this very alone feeling. So the very last session is a tournament where we play three games and all the kids bowl. And I won the tournament. And the prize was a free entry into next year's clinic. I decline the prize. Long story short, I was stubborn enough to continue on my own little path, and I just. I just found a way that works for me.

[Pablo Torre]

Jason Belmonti, Seven in a row. And that's how you do it. I'm just marveling at the specific, like, random chance that leads to this specific, like, laboratory of Innovation and bowling technique. Because you said your parents didn't give a about bowling. The institution as its sort of like folk ways and, and, and best practices were concerned. And then you pop out and you're like this stubborn kid who's always been that way. It sounds like always. And you're like kind of this weirdly accidentally perfect messenger for this, this larger idea that you don't need to do it this way.

[Jason Belmonte]

You can look at it from that lens when you, when you look back at it. But when you're in the middle of it during the moment, you're not thinking about what this is going to turn into or you don't think about. My decisions today are going to have this kind of an impact down the road. This was just one little boy who wanted to do it his own way. And at the time that's all I cared about. Now that I've had a career and I look back at it, the thing that I think I sometimes marvel at it is that, yeah, I mean, if I didn't start bowling at the age that I wanted to start bowling, would I have developed the style or would I be traditional?

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Jason Belmonte]

I don't know. And so there are so many things, which is the slide indoors. Right. It's the butterfly effect. It's like I couldn't have written this script any better than that.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, that's what's so funny to me about this is that yes, there's an alternate timeline where you're a one handed bowler. I don't know. Would you suck in that world?

[Jason Belmonte]

I would probably suck. Some other kid would invent two handed bowling and I'd probably be like, that's not how you're supposed to do it. Right. You're supposed to bowl like me.

[Pablo Torre]

Traditionally, you'd be the bully, you'd be one of the bullies.

[Jason Belmonte]

I'd be the traditionalist. That's upset at this new wave. Coming through.

[Pablo Torre]

Jason Couch, your take on two handed bowling. I think it's a travesty that it's in this sport.

[Jason Belmonte]

I'm old school.

[Pablo Torre]

If you couldn't do it with one hand, you didn't try and do it with two. You just tried to make yourself better.

[Jason Belmonte]

I'm gonna start this conversation off with I love my time here in America. Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

So anytime someone begins to say that, hold on.

[Jason Belmonte]

All right. I'm gonna start off with America. I love you. And this is the home of bowling. This is, you know, the American idea of bowling is rooted in pop.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Jason Belmonte]

It is important to America. I get it.

[Pablo Torre]

The big Lebowski bowling ties the whole room that is America together. That rug really tied the room together. Did it not a.

[Jason Belmonte]

This guy peed on it.

[Pablo Torre]

Donnie, please.

[Jason Belmonte]

So when I came onto the scene, I'm Australian. I bowl differently. I knew I was going to ruffle feathers, but I didn't realize it was gonna be that much. They have said, you are now here. This is the usa, the big leagues. You are starting from the bottom again. And so I had to, like, accept, right. I'm gonna have to do this all over again. The biggest difference is Americans allowed. I would come back after a tournament going like, f. This is. This is a hard day. Cause, you know, I'm getting heckled. No one else is getting heckled. I'm getting heckled from the crowd, and I haven't experienced that type of heckling. You know, it is. Go back to your country, right? It is. You're in our country. Bowl the way we do. And again, I'm like, it's just a game of bowling, guys. Like, why are we. Why are we doing this? And I. I had to fight through that. And that was. That was hard.

[Pablo Torre]

I apologize for smiling through your trauma.

[Jason Belmonte]

I do, too. It's. It's a weird thing. Cause I look back, and there were so many sad days because you're in this little environment. And for me, bowling was like my second home. It was a place I love to be, and I love the game so much. And so when you have that passion and love with something, you want to share it with the people around you. And when the people around you are like, we don't want to bowl with you, or you gotta change or you gotta do something different. Yeah. It was like, I don't get it. The biggest, I think switch in that, which, when it came from feeling a sadness to a feeling of joy, was when I would start beating them. Because now when they would say something, my return was always, look at the scores. I just beat you. So whatever you're saying right now, it's even harder to convince me you're right. Because I'm. I'm not just. And I'm not just beating you by one or two pins like, I am smashing you guys. Now what? And so it's always nice to have that ace up your sleeve when your scores tell a bigger picture. So not only was I stubborn, now I had the arrogance. And he does it. Jason Belmonte earns his first PBA major.

[Pablo Torre]

Sports often feels like it has antibodies.

[Jason Belmonte]

Sure.

[Pablo Torre]

That are rejecting foreign invaders. And you were a foreign invader. And Maybe the way that was just expressed, if I'm getting your story right, is that looks stupid.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And that's the antibody, and it's not.

[Jason Belmonte]

How the game was meant to play. Okay, so that's the traditional. That's any sport.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Jason Belmonte]

That's not how I grew up with it. This is not how I was taught it. And therefore this new way of doing it doesn't compute.

[Pablo Torre]

I would like to read you, Jason, a quote. Because it was the Players championship, it was 2012. There's a TV interview before the final, and your opponent, a gentleman named Mike Devaney, he said this. Not watching Belmo and all that. Doesn't impress me. Not interested, don't care. I throw it the right way. I put my thumb in there the way I was taught, and everybody should throw it. So I'm showing what's up right now. Thanks, Mike. Good luck.

[Jason Belmonte]

I remember the day, and I was so focused about winning that I heard the quote, but I didn't let it necessarily affect me in the moment.

[Pablo Torre]

Mike Devaney needs a double and seven. Anything less, Jason Belmonte wins for the third time at this year's World Series of Bowling. And Belmo wins.

[Jason Belmonte]

Was until the moment where I had won, and then I could reflect on what had just happened. That. That quote. Yeah. Cut a little deeper. But when I hear it, the one thing that always kind of rings in my ear about it is like, why do they care? That's the thing that always. I always go, why do you care so much?

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Jason Belmonte]

And so if my score was worse than theirs, they probably wouldn't care.

[Pablo Torre]

So this is what a Hall of Famer in your sport, in the PBA here in America once called you. He called you, quote, a cancer to an already diseased sport.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yeah, that one hurt.

[Pablo Torre]

End quote.

[Jason Belmonte]

Brian Voss. Mr. Brian Voss.

[Pablo Torre]

Why? What made you cancerous to Brian Voss?

[Jason Belmonte]

I'm gonna defend him a little bit.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay.

[Jason Belmonte]

I don't think he was referencing me as a. As a human, as an individual. I think he was referencing what I do, my craft. And you can't deny that Brian had an extreme passion for the game. And he wanted to protect it how he thought was best. He thought something that was challenging its fabric was this new technique. It was the two handed backhand in tennis. It was the Frosby flop in high jump.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Dick Fosbury. Yep.

[Jason Belmonte]

This was his version of all of those things. And he didn't like it. He was scared for the game that he grew up with, the game that he loved. I think what saddened Me at the time was this was one of the greatest players in our history. Someone who I revered and someone who I competed against, someone who I had drinks with.

[Pablo Torre]

He's actively trying to say that we cannot let this technique, your craft, your approach, destroy the game. And this is coming back around to the whole cheating aspect. And that allegation though on the level of the rule of law.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yeah. So what does that mean? The word cheat hits me hardest because my understanding of the word cheat is, you know, the boundary of the rules and you are choosing to purposely step outside of them to break them. You are cheating the game. I am within the rules. There is no rule to say that what I do, I am breaking. And therefore, because I'm within the square of the rules to call me a cheat. Now you're attacking my character as opposed, you're suggesting that I will purposely go beyond the rules. So what I'm doing, it breaks that mold and to them, it hurts them, you know, and I have to accept that.

[Pablo Torre]

But this is where I now need to officially inform you what the rest of bowling has had to accept about Belmo. Because the guy isn't just a really good two handed bowler at this point. For the last decade, Jason Belmonte has been nothing short of this generation's most dominant professional bowler, period. He's won an all time record 15 major titles. He has a record tying seven player of the year awards and counting. All of which means that that kid in Australia who got bullied, who no one wanted to bowl with, that kid is now very arguably the greatest bowler who ever lived. The best bowler on the planet steps up. Jason Belmonte, better known in the bowling world is Bilmox is a star of his chosen profession.

[Jason Belmonte]

There's no one else on this planet that can bowl a ball at 10 pins better than me. And that is a really cool thing to say. And I never knew I'd ever be able to say it. So now that I can, I plan to say it as often as I can.

[Pablo Torre]

And look, yes, as Belmod told me at one point, he would love it if there were another zero at the end of the paychecks that you get for being the greatest of all time in bowling. You get $100,000 for winning the Players Championship, for instance. Which just means that Belmo, despite winning that thing three times, is still flying coach from Australia. You know, just a reminder that the PBA is absolutely not the NBA. But what Belmo does have somehow, which very few even NBA players have, is a song that someone wrote about him. It's a song that another bowler actually named Kevin Williams wrote and performed about Belmo's life.

[Jason Belmonte]

Doing myself and I get to working. I did it on purpose. You know that I did it on purpose. Kev's a great young kid, super talented bowler, also really talented musician and loves to rap. So I'm like, hey, we should, we should do a song. We should write a song, like, and maybe I can play it as like my strike song on the, on the PBA show. And so we did, we found a beat. He thought up some lyrics and I, the only direction I gave him is I said write a about me from like your perspective.

[Pablo Torre]

Which means that every time you bowl.

[Jason Belmonte]

A strike, they play the music in the background and it's Kev's song. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

But let me ask about why it is that your response, like, in modern times, now we're catching up to the present is something that a lot of the people who had been bullied or attempted to innovate and even successfully innovated, I don't see them do what you do, which is you actively like lean in and mock the mockers and make fun and make videos that are defiant and unapologetic and you gladly say, I'm the two handed bowling guy. Like, that's not a thing that a lot of other people in your position in other sports have, have done to that degree.

[Jason Belmonte]

I don't mind trolling the trolls back. And so there's so many things that I think about what would be kind of funny. And one of the videos that I think you might be referencing is I purposely created this fake neurological disease because I have a condition, singular chirophobia, the fear of using one hand. My earliest memories, I remember going to, to the doctors a lot and seeing one doctor and another doctor and a specialist and every doctor. I just remember saying, you know, there's nothing we can do. There's nothing we can do. I'm afraid he was born with it. You know, there's no cure. Hey, I bowl with two hands, but don't hate me. I have this problem. Everything in my life I do with two hands. You know, even using, you know, cutlery, I can't just butter bread. You know, it's a process. You know, going out to restaurants, it's embarrassing. So I'm having a laugh about it. And in my mind I released this video. It looks obvious I'm having a laugh. Turns out not everyone thought I was, I was joking. And so I had this flood of, of people saying, oh my God, I am so sorry. I've been hating on you for so long, and now I realize it's not your fault. You were born this way, and there's nothing you can do about it, how you go through your life. So I'm like, okay, now. Now I need to address this because.

[Pablo Torre]

Because you could go two ways. You can come clean or fundraise off of this.

[Jason Belmonte]

And my fear was, is I these people now, like, they're saying they love me where they once hated me. So I'm like, if I tell them that I'm lying, this is all fake.

[Pablo Torre]

This is actually my favorite of all the sliding door timelines of your life is the one in which you now have to perpetually argue that this is real.

[Jason Belmonte]

I end up shooting another video in which I find this underground doctor that has special pills that will cure me. All you need is one dose. Pop it in, chew it up.

[Pablo Torre]

You gotta chew it up.

[Jason Belmonte]

Are there side effects that I should not use?

[Pablo Torre]

Too many side effects to go into.

[Jason Belmonte]

Right now, but believe me, it's gonna.

[Pablo Torre]

Cure all your ills.

[Jason Belmonte]

Doctor, thank you so much. You have no idea what this is going to do for me.

[Pablo Torre]

Godspeed. You are such a troll, man.

[Jason Belmonte]

You would think people would know that they would put two and two together.

[Pablo Torre]

So this leads to this, like, fairly stunning phase to me as a bowling outsider, where, unlike in these other sports, where, again, Rick Barry didn't inspire everybody, or all these people who shoot differently and shoot weirdly, they didn't change their games. And by there, I mean their sport. They didn't change their sports. Your problem now seems to be that everyone else, or at least a lot of these younger bowlers now want to be specifically like you and that your once shamed technique has become, like, clearly invoke.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yeah, I don't. I don't often get, like, emotional. There are moments where I'm like, I'll get a fan mail, or a kid will come up to me in person and he'll tell me a little bit about his story. And sometimes there's a lot of trauma in this kid's life, and he uses bowling as a way to escape it or to bring joy. And then he'll bowl the way that I do. Then you pan out and you see hundreds of thousands of people around the world.

[Pablo Torre]

Now, is it really that many now?

[Jason Belmonte]

Hundreds of thousands of people? Maybe more. The last. It is more. The last estimated count was somewhere in the 30% mark of bowlers, old and young, who are either starting off bowling the way that I do or adapting and adopting the new Style, my style. And so that number is growing exponentially quicker as well. And so you hear these stories then you go to a bowling center and you see the impact with your own eyes. Where when I was a kid there was me, no one else to now as a 40 year old guy walking into a bowling center and it's everywhere. The feeling, the overwhelming feeling of seeing a change of an evolution of just not just through my own personal game but the sport made that. That's one of those like me moments.

[Pablo Torre]

That'S like whole with two hands.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Needs seven counter strike. One big shot for Kyle Troup. One big event. He wins the 2023 PBA Tour. From Gothenburg, Sweden, Jesper Senson. Yep. Needs three, gets all ten.

[Jason Belmonte]

Give him number nine.

[Pablo Torre]

Let's meet Anthony Simons. Simo is the baby faced bad boy of bowling. Dropping out of high school at only 16 to become a pro bowler. His scrappy style has gotten him far. When you grow up on the lanes you grow up fast and tough. He's known for his low to the ground aggressive two hand style and aggressive attitude on the lanes. Some of these kids are really good, super good and they're coming for you like they're actively like coming for the titles, the trophies. I mean you is it 15 major titles that you've won that's more than anyone else in history. 7 Player of the year awards that's tied for the most all time. There are these young two handers who want everything that you got and they're using your tools to take it from you. And I just wonder what it feels like to be somebody who's now seen the full circle and truly it's such a phenomenal sports story. You've seen the full circle of start by being shamed and laughed at and then try to be destroyed for being too effective and now suffering potentially because people are going to use it against you. What does that feel like? What's that emotional reaction when you get beaten by a two hander?

[Jason Belmonte]

When I lose one handed. Two handed. I'm equally disappointed. I'm pissed. And so I try not to separate who beats me by. Well he was two handed so it's a little bit. Okay. Cause you know we bowl the same. No, I'm still pissed. The thing that I'm realizing now and why these kids are so good is because of what I've been able to do and they've been able to put me up as a, as a pin on the pin board to study and I never had that. My son today can YouTube everything.

[Pablo Torre]

One of the biggest growing trends in bowling is two handed bowling. Almost all the young competitors out there to generate that power are bowling two handed. And today we're gonna attempt as best as we can with coach to talk a little bit about the two handed style.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yeah, as you mentioned, you are right, Mike. I was walking in blind. How do I fix my swing? I don't know. I guess I'm just gonna have to go to the bowl and for a week, every day I'm gonna have to try new things. Now someone takes my game, pulls it apart and says, are you having problems with this? This is what Bellmo does. How about you use this kind of technique in your swing and it fixes them and then I have to combat watching the kids on tour go, hey, that looks a little, that looks a little bit like me. Like that's that rhythm looks a little bit like me. Or that role or what you're able to do with the bike. I think I've been doing that for a while and it's the ultimate compliment. But it's also like, could you not have come like five years later, like, let me, let me have retired.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm still here.

[Jason Belmonte]

Let me have retired and then you can all go and break all of my records.

[Pablo Torre]

It's kind of an amazing concept. The idea that the revolution comes back around for the revolutionary.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yeah, I liken it to watching Tiger woods swing a golf club. Like, when Tiger first came out, no one was as explosive. He was always the longest driver, he was always hitting the clubs the furthest. He happened to also be a great putter and chipper, and he also happened to have touch and skill and creativity. And so when I watched somebody like that, watch the kids come through, hit it further and whatever. How did Tiger continue to win? Well, Tiger became even more creative. And I think that's something that I've learned from Tiger is, look, I can't rely on certain aspects of my game as I could 10 years ago when I was the only good one doing it. Now you have to, you have to be creative. How are you gonna separate yourself from the kids that are learning from you? But the one thing they'll never be able to copy is how I think. And I think that's where I really want to separate myself is that mental game side is just be like, you can throw it like me all you want, but what's going on between the years and how I'm strategizing, I'm not gonna tell anyone that.

[Pablo Torre]

So the title that you get often given is Goat is greatest of all time. How does the superlative that you get presented with feel? What do you find more valuable? How do you make sense of those honors?

[Jason Belmonte]

The comparisons to the Tiger woods of Bolin or Steph Curry of basketball, super flattering. And I think the one parallel to all of that is bowling seems to be just next in line of the evolution of its game. Right? Like Tiger changed golf, Steph is changing the way we value the three point shot. I'm changing the way you bowl. There is a part of me about that legacy, right? Is when you get to a certain stature, you start thinking, right, well, how do you, if I could, how would you like to be remembered?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, let's write your obit.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Jason.

[Jason Belmonte]

So a huge part of me wants to be remembered as the, the greatest that has ever laced up the shoes and rolling a ball down the lane. There's a huge motivation for that. However, I'm really cautious to be labeled the best two hander of all time. And so my victories in my mind is I'm chalking up more runs on the board that will separate me from just a two handed player. To know we're encompassing everyone that's ever rolled a ball down the line because his stats are proven otherwise. So when I watch Steph play, I watch LeBron score the most points, I ask myself, like, I wonder what their legacy that they want to be remembered for. And I promise you, Steph will be, will go down. Maybe not as the goat of an all round player, but he will be the goat of shooting the ball from the perimeter. And for me, that legacy isn't to be singular. He's the greatest at one thing. It is. I want to be the greatest at it all.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Jason Belmonte]

And that's not easy. And that's a, that's a wild, that's a wild thought. And it's also an arrogant thought to presume.

[Pablo Torre]

I was gonna say you're like, you're now pushing Steph Curry away with two heads, right? You're like, nah, not for me.

[Jason Belmonte]

I've gotta let my score do the talking again. And that's a huge motivator when I step up on the approach and I throw that strike, I'm throwing it for today, but I'm also throwing it for what is gonna be said about me into the future. And I love that pressure and I love that passion and I love being in that position to influence my future based on what I'm doing today. So embrace it, enjoy it, but also know that no one will set an expectation higher than I set for myself. So whatever you're thinking of my capabilities, I'm thinking beyond it. And I'm believing I'm going to get there.

[Pablo Torre]

Now that feels like a real warning to these kids.

[Jason Belmonte]

Maybe it is.

[Pablo Torre]

I would like you to help me, though. I would like to peer inside of your brain, because I am, as I said, I am. I'm kind of like an infant when it comes to bowling.

[Jason Belmonte]

Listen, I have no problem helping out an infant.

[Pablo Torre]

I have no problem helping out a total non threat.

[Jason Belmonte]

If your plan was to secretly take over the game of bowling and you wanted to.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, I'm 39, but he's still got some years left.

[Jason Belmonte]

Maybe, maybe I'd have second thoughts. But we can definitely fix you up here.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Cause we're about to have the Pablo Torre finds out like staff bowling tournament later today. What I need to do is show everybody else.

[Jason Belmonte]

You need a trophy. That's what you need.

[Pablo Torre]

I cannot let my staff beat me.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yeah, how you're thinking about your staff is how I think about with my family. Like my son, he's 12 years old, he's a bowler, and he always wants to bowl against me. And I will never let him win. He will always throw it in my face. And your staff are going to do the same thing to you. That's right. You're going to yell at them for not being late. And you know what they're going to say. Well, I got the bowling trophy. What do you say about that? The worst thing in the world for you.

[Pablo Torre]

Help me.

[Jason Belmonte]

So we're going to fix that.

[Pablo Torre]

Help me. Bell bow. All right, let's, let's, let's, let's get some private tutoring.

[Jason Belmonte]

I can do it. Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

Can you show me how it's done? So Jason Belmonte has taken his ball. His Excalibur. Yeah.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yeah. So that's three in a row. Do you know what that's called? What's three in a row called? I'll give you a clue. It's a bird.

[Pablo Torre]

The flamingo. I can. I've never seen a flamingo in flamingo. Real, Real bowling life.

[Jason Belmonte]

Turkey.

[Pablo Torre]

Just showing off. I'm noticing that his shoes have his own image on them. They say Belmo.

[Jason Belmonte]

I don't know what we're going to expect here today.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, typically I'm probably drunk the last time I played.

[Jason Belmonte]

The good news is when you're drunk, there's more pins to look at. Usually.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Belmonte]

You have 20 of them.

[Pablo Torre]

Confidence helps.

[Jason Belmonte]

Helps the score. Usually the way that I like to work Is I ask the player. Just throw me your shot.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Jason Belmonte]

So I know this is the most.

[Pablo Torre]

Humiliating part potentially is I reveal what it is that I'm here to do. So we're standing in front of. I don't even the. The bowling rack.

[Jason Belmonte]

Sure. Ball return.

[Pablo Torre]

Very confident in all of these terms. So I'm going to select the ball. Small, medium, large, extra large.

[Jason Belmonte]

So what we're going to do is I believe you could probably take the green ball.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay. That's all right.

[Jason Belmonte]

You can take mine if you wanted to.

[Pablo Torre]

I think you could handle it. Not a thing that I expected to be given the privilege.

[Jason Belmonte]

Touch my ball, mate.

[Pablo Torre]

You can touch my ball, yo. Okay, so this is very, very heavy. It says absolute power.

[Jason Belmonte]

That's the name of the ball with.

[Pablo Torre]

Various lightning iconography on it.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yeah. This is my sponsor's equipment.

[Pablo Torre]

And I'm noticing that there are two holes.

[Jason Belmonte]

Two holes.

[Pablo Torre]

No thumb hole, no thumb.

[Jason Belmonte]

Right. And we're going to use our two middle fingers.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Like this.

[Jason Belmonte]

Perfect.

[Pablo Torre]

So stick them in ring and middle.

[Jason Belmonte]

Now, this hand is going to essentially cradle the ball. So hold it by your waist with your hand underneath it.

[Pablo Torre]

Yep. Cradling balls.

[Jason Belmonte]

That's it. I kind of want you to stand on the side a little bit and then just kind of rock it. Just kind of rock it. And so that natural rock that you're doing right now is going to generate rotation.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Jason Belmonte]

When you let it go, you're actually going to hook the ball if you do it like that.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay.

[Jason Belmonte]

Go and throw a shot. Let me just see what we're working with, and then we'll figure stuff out.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, Here we go.

[Jason Belmonte]

All right. There you go. It's not bad. It. Okay, now. All right, so it's very clear.

[Pablo Torre]

It went into the gutter.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yeah. Okay, it's back. It was not bad for, like, until it was bad.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm getting flashbacks to various things in my life that have involved a lot of this vocabulary, but. Yeah. When was the last time that specific ball has ever touched a gutter?

[Jason Belmonte]

It's been a while. Yeah, it's been a little while.

[Pablo Torre]

How deep should my fingers be in these holes?

[Jason Belmonte]

Well, your fingers and my fingers are different size, so the holes. This is designed for me.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Jason Belmonte]

I can't remember the last time someone stuck their fingers in my ball.

[Pablo Torre]

So this is a privilege.

[Jason Belmonte]

Yeah. And it's very uncomfortable for me.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna be gentle.

[Jason Belmonte]

Okay. Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay.

[Jason Belmonte]

Please.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Jason Belmonte]

Okay. So stick them in. Yeah, Gently.

[Pablo Torre]

They're in there.

[Jason Belmonte]

For the.

[Pablo Torre]

For the podcast Audience, they're in there.

[Jason Belmonte]

All right, try it again. Don't have to throw it too hard. Just kind of roll it through there. Be gentle with it. Little outside, a little. But we have, we have an improvement. There's always a moment where it just like, I get it. Oh, that's what I'm supposed to do. That's how it's supposed to feel. And when you hit that moment, there's usually a euphoric feeling of, let me do it again. Yeah, let me do it again. So I don't know when that moment's going to happen for you.

[Pablo Torre]

I just want to hear.

[Jason Belmonte]

We may not have enough tape in the cameras.

[Pablo Torre]

For that reason, I told them to bring more tape, more tape.

[Jason Belmonte]

And when that day happened, you better.

[Pablo Torre]

Text me when that year comes to pass. Call me in Australia, in Orange, Australia.

[Jason Belmonte]

I'll be on my deathbed 60 years from now, and my phone will vibrate and it'll be like, Pablo.

[Pablo Torre]

What?

[Jason Belmonte]

Oh, he did it.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, and it's just gonna be me rapping your strike song.

[Jason Belmonte]

All right, try it again.

[Pablo Torre]

Here we go. Here we go.

[Jason Belmonte]

Oh, my God. That's gonna be really close to like, seven. All right, we got seven. All right, look at that. Three now. Seven. Our increments are going above.

[Pablo Torre]

I just want to be clear for the audio audience that what I'm feeling right now is a power unlike any I've ever felt. I've been emboldened.

[Jason Belmonte]

That's really, really close. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Yo, that's a spare, dude. That's the second best thing you can get.

[Pablo Torre]

When I tell you that I'm going to destroy Troy, the Pablo Torre finds out staff tonight. I mean it.

[Jason Belmonte]

I have, I have no doubt anything is possible.

[Pablo Torre]

So I should just check back in here with a quick postscript about what it is that I found out today at the Pablotori Finds out bowling tournament. I, I didn't win. My staff's good. Somehow. A bowling Cortez is somehow good at bowling. How is he good at any of this? Nooch is like a pro, basically. I, I, I went two handed the whole time, as per my tutelage from the greatest bowler of all time. And I was not part of the revolution. You only check the scores. Like, just though I, you know, don't need to dwell on it. I, I didn't win. Didn't go. Didn't go well. Like, what the. What I found out today is actually that I find myself relating at the end here to Belmo's fellow Australian in a cruel bit of irony. Ben Simmons didn't come through in the clutch. I should. I should just be man enough to admit that. Okay, this is hard. It's supposed to be hard, right? Like, maybe. Maybe the real bowling title is the Friends. The Friends We Made along the Way. Now the journalism we Did. But no more questions. This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production and I'll talk to you next time.

[Jason Belmonte]

Sam.