Why Jesse Owens Saved Hitler's Mysterious Trees (PTFO Vault)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Why Jesse Owens Saved Hitler's Mysterious Trees (PTFO Vault)"

Episode Release Date: August 5, 2025
Podcast: Pablo Torre Finds Out
Host: Pablo Torre
Guests: Dave Fleming, Jeffrey T. Barrespi, Beck Schwab, Dr. Damian Thomas

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Introduction to the Story

In this compelling episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out, Pablo Torre delves into a lesser-known yet profoundly significant story intertwining sports history, environmental justice, and racial resilience. The episode, titled "Why Jesse Owens Saved Hitler's Mysterious Trees," explores the fascinating narrative of Jesse Owens and the so-called "Hitler Oaks" stemming from the 1936 Berlin Olympics.

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The 1936 Berlin Olympics and Jesse Owens

The episode begins by setting the historical context of the 1936 Berlin Olympics, hosted by Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler's regime. Jesse Owens, an African American track and field athlete, emerged as a global sports icon during these games.

Dave Fleming explains:
“When I first met the Tree in probably 2016, I thought it was a perfect tree.” [33:01]

This reference sets the stage for the central mystery of the episode—the significance of the oak saplings awarded to gold medalists, including Owens.

Historical Background:

• Adolf Hitler's Intentions: Hitler aimed to showcase Aryan supremacy through the Olympics, using the event as a propaganda tool.
• Jesse Owens' Triumphs: Owens won four gold medals, effectively debunking Nazi ideologies about racial superiority.

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The Mysterious Oak Saplings

A pivotal moment discussed is a photograph from the 1936 Olympics showing Jesse Owens on the medal stand surrounded by Nazi salutes. Intriguingly, Owens is also seen holding a tiny oak sapling, later identified as a "Hitler Oak."

Pablo Torre reflects:
“Why the FBI director plays so much hockey? This storytelling has been honored by the Edward R. Murrow Awards and Peabody Awards.” [00:00]

Significance of the Oaks:

• Symbolism: In German culture, oaks symbolize strength and resilience. Hitler intended these saplings as symbols of Nazi ideology.
• Racial Tension: For Owens, a black athlete, accepting a Hitler Oak was laden with irony and resistance against the oppressive Nazi regime.

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Jesse Owens' Return to America

Upon returning to the United States, Owens faced a harsh reality starkly contrasting his Olympic success. Despite his achievements, Owens encountered systemic racism and economic hardships.

Key Points:

• Economic Struggles: Owens worked as a janitor, gas station attendant, and even as a circus performer to make ends meet.

  Dr. Damian Thomas notes:
  “He is someone who is reflective of a very important moment in African American history.” [42:33]

• Redlining and Environmental Injustice: Owens returned to Cleveland, a city impacted by redlining—a discriminatory practice that limited investment in predominantly black neighborhoods, leading to ecological degradation and higher temperatures due to fewer trees.

  Dave Fleming elaborates:
  “Redlining connects to environmental injustice.” [28:52]

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The Legacy of the Hitler Oaks

Despite the tumultuous circumstances, Owens took the Hitler Oaks home, symbolizing hope and resilience. Over time, one authenticated Hitler Oak at James Ford Rhodes High School became a focal point for community efforts to preserve these trees.

Community Involvement:

• Jeffrey T. Barrespi, COO at Cleveland Neighborhood Progress, and Beck Schwab, Director of Conservation and Community Forestry at Holden Forest and Gardens, spearheaded the movement to save and propagate the dying Hitler Oak.

  Barrespi states:
  “It was 40ft tall. It had big branches that had leaves everywhere. And I was like, this is a gorgeous, amazing tree.” [34:00]

• Tree Forensics and Propagation: Through meticulous efforts, the original oak was cloned to ensure its survival, resulting in four new Jesse Owens Olympic Oaks planted across Cleveland, transforming them from symbols of Nazi propaganda to emblems of African American resilience and environmental rejuvenation.

  Beck Schwab shares:
  “We need to get more trees into these areas.” [38:35]

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Environmental and Social Impact

The planting of the Jesse Owens Oaks serves multiple purposes:

• Combating Heat Islands: Research highlighted that redlined neighborhoods are significantly hotter due to the lack of tree cover, leading to health risks.

  Unknown Speaker mentions:
  “Many redline districts are now the warmest areas in the United States.” [27:25]

• Promoting Community Health: Trees contribute to better air quality, reduced energy bills, and increased mental well-being.

  Beck Schwab adds:
  “Trees help mental health, it helps stress.” [38:35]

• Educational Value: The Oaks educate the community on the intertwined nature of racial history and environmental justice, fostering a sense of pride and historical awareness.

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Transformation of Symbolism

The transformation of the Hitler Oaks into Jesse Owens Oaks symbolizes a profound act of defiance and reclamation. What was once intended as a tool of oppression has been repurposed to signify hope, community resilience, and environmental stewardship.

Dave Fleming summarizes:
“Hitler kind of outsmarted himself by gifting to Jesse Owens the very thing that he could use to fight racism and redlining in Cleveland.” [42:33]

Jeffrey T. Barrespi reinforces:
“The Jesse Owens Olympic Oaks. His story is one of resilience.” [41:32]

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Concluding Insights

The episode concludes by reflecting on the enduring legacy of Jesse Owens and the Hitler Oaks. Through community efforts and symbolic transformation, the story underscores the importance of resilience in the face of systemic oppression and environmental neglect.

Pablo Torre finalizes:
“They have become the Jesse Owens Oaks. His story is one of resilience.” [41:21]

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Pablo Torre:
  “And so the obvious question near the end here, Flem, is whether anybody feels any discomfort, residual, lingering discomfort from the fact that these are Hitler Oaks, that these are gifted again from one of history's greatest monsters.” [39:52]

• Dave Fleming:
  “And I think that's one of the best parts of this whole story. They mean so much more to the people in that community that they don't really see them that way.” [40:39]

• Dr. Damian Thomas:
  “I think it's important that we tell a well grounded story about Jesse Owens, both about his triumphs and his challenges.” [42:01]

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Final Thoughts

"Why Jesse Owens Saved Hitler's Mysterious Trees" is a poignant exploration of how symbols can be redefined through resilience and community effort. It highlights the interconnectedness of sports, history, and environmental justice, offering listeners a profound understanding of Jesse Owens' enduring legacy beyond the track.

For more stories like this, follow Pablo Torre Finds Out on YouTube, Instagram, and X. Subscribe to Pablo's newsletter at pablo.show for exclusive content and updates.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, so hello, it is me, Pablo, entering, invading even your ears. Because I have done something I have not done before, which is take the advice of someone who once told me that if people wish to support you financially, if they wish to support your journalism, your very strange future of journalism, meaning your newsroom, your ambitions, your desire to investigate things people don't want you to investigate, you should let them. And so I am on Substack my [e-mail]. we'll put a link in the show notes of this episode. I have turned on paid subscriptions and if you didn't know I have a substack, guess what? It's free and that's still there for you. And it's worth it. But the paid subscribers who support this show and us will get legitimately cool personalized benefits. We will make it worth your while. We are figuring out here at PTFO our post draftkings future and, you know, more good news on that front. I hope to come. But in the meantime, Pablo show is where you sign up. Click the link in the show notes help support us please. Thank you, thank you, thank you on that front. And this, this episode today is a handpicked episode from deep inside the PTFO vault that we sincerely hope you enjoy. Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out I am Pablo Torre and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

[Jeffrey T. Barrespi]

When I first met the Tree in probably 2016, I thought it was a perfect treat.

[Pablo Torre]

Right after this ad.

[Beck Schwab]

On WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat, or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends and your family. No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with Everyone the Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our top 10 ranked online MBA. Gain skills you can learn today and apply tomorrow. Get ready to go from make it happen to made it happen and keep striving. Visit Strayer Edu Jack Welchmba to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chev and has many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.

[Pablo Torre]

You say you'll never join the Navy, that you'd never track storms brewing in the Atlantic.

[Dave Fleming]

And skydiving could never be.

[Pablo Torre]

Part of your commute. You'd Never climb Mount Fuji on a port visit or fly so fast you.

[Dave Fleming]

Break the sound barrier.

[Pablo Torre]

Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Start your journey at navy.com, america's Navy, forged by the sea. Flem. I'm a plant guy. I'm a tree guy. If you look behind you, over your shoulder in our studio, that is an homage to an interest that I have long held. I don't know if you have a property full of greenery, but I don't. I live in the city here in New York. Thank you for being here, by the way.

[Dave Fleming]

You're welcome. I actually, I thought that's why I was here, to help you with your limelight hydrangeas, which mine are. Mine are really world class. I'm just going to go ahead and.

[Pablo Torre]

Say that I'm jealous. I have, like, two dozen house plants.

[Dave Fleming]

Well, that's, that's pretty good.

[Pablo Torre]

But in a simulation of the real thing. And so as a lawn owner, as a guy with his own set of, of shrubbery, I, I, I just express jealousy at the outset here.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah, I get it. But, you know, come down, we'll get you into nature. It's called forest bathing. We'll do that. We'll have, like a retreat. A retreat. We'll do a little gardening, some lawn work.

[Pablo Torre]

It's real, though. Like forest bathing.

[Dave Fleming]

Oh, is definitely real. Forest bathing.

[Pablo Torre]

100% restorative, psychologically beneficial. So all of this brings us to the Olympics, of course.

[Dave Fleming]

I mean, I'm sure that's where we.

[Pablo Torre]

Were, as is our one.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Because there is this photograph flam. As we approach the closing ceremonies of the Olympics in Paris, There's a photograph that I think about whenever it's near the end of an Olympic Games. And it's a famous photo that you have done some research into for us that revealed that I had no idea what the I was even looking at. So explain when and where and what this photo is.

[Dave Fleming]

We're sort of nearing the end of the Olympics. You start to think about iconic moments. You think about incredible iconic performance performances. And always in my mind, associated with that is this picture from the 1936 games. From the metal stand of the Games which were in Berlin at the time. What your eye sticks on with this photo are all the Nazi salutes at.

[Pablo Torre]

The top of the medal stand.

[Dave Fleming]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Not doing the Nazi salute is.

[Dave Fleming]

Who is Jesse Owens?

[Jesse Owens]

After the fanfares of the Olympic opening comes the most amazing performance by America's black streak, Jesse Owens in the hundred meters. The world's Most superb runner makes the others look as if they're walking as he wins the final and equals the world's record time. This and his later victory in the long jump may well be the athletic performances of the century.

[Dave Fleming]

One of the greatest Olympic performances of all time, really, to this day, bar none. Jesse Owens in 1936, he's receiving one of his four gold medals, but it's in a stadium full of people doing the Nazi salute, and he's next to a row of athletes and other people doing officials, right? And your eye is just stuck on that, and you don't really notice the secret little thing that we discovered that. That sent us down this rabbit hole.

[Pablo Torre]

At the actual center of the photograph. I did not notice this until you told me to, like, zoom in on it. And when you zoom in on it, you see that he's carrying something that I'd never noticed before club.

[Dave Fleming]

He's holding a tiny little oak sapling.

[Pablo Torre]

Why? All right, so in case you slept through every history class you may have ever taken, I do want to clarify that this is going to be a story that starts with Jesse Owens, who is one of the greatest black athletes of all time. And also Adolf Hitler, who became the Chancellor of Germany when the Nazi party came to power in 1933 in the aftermath of Germany losing World War I. Which is why the 1936 Berlin Olympics wound up being this festival of swastikas and Aryan supremacy and anti Semitic propaganda, as evidenced by that famous picture we just discussed. But that only begins to explain why Jesse Owens was standing atop that metal stand surrounded by Nazi salutes and cradling this mysterious and tiny potted plant.

[Dave Fleming]

So to do that, we have to go all the way back and talk about the Olympic Games and how in 1936 they were allowed to be in Berlin. The Games were given to Germany years earlier, actually, as a gesture to try and help bring Germany back into the world community.

[Pablo Torre]

Spoiler alert. This effort did not pay off.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah, that was not a great idea. By 1936, of course, Hitler has come into power in Germany.

[Jesse Owens]

Berlin's great day dawns with the arrival of the Olympic flame at the end of its 2000 mile journey from Greece. And meanwhile, a packed stadium and flag draped, cheering streets greet Chancellor Hitler on his way to perform the opening ceremony. Like a modern Caesar, he stands on the balcony to receive the salutes of the athletes of 50 nations.

[Dave Fleming]

The Games go on in Berlin. And part of the ritual of the Games in Germany was the idea that every gold medal winner would receive an oak sapling because of its historic connection to Germany and Germany's history.

[Pablo Torre]

And I didn't know this either, but to the German culture, an oak symbolizes, you know, the king of the forest.

[Dave Fleming]

Right. Because the oak is usually the biggest, tallest tree. And in German folklore, Germania represents the German people. She's wearing a crown of oak leaves.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Dave Fleming]

So the oaks are very important. And as a gesture, each person that won a gold medal, along with their gold medal, were given this tiny oak sapling and told to go back to where you're from around the globe and keep these trees, plant these trees and watch them grow as a symbol of these games, which on its face, is kind of a good idea.

[Pablo Torre]

Now, the flip side of this good idea is that these were Hitler's oaks.

[Dave Fleming]

Correct.

[Pablo Torre]

And were called as such.

[Dave Fleming]

They were known immediately as Hitler Oaks.

[Pablo Torre]

And so the Hitler oaks, right. That came back with the US Gold medalists. What do we know about those oaks and what happened to them?

[Dave Fleming]

So there were 24American gold medals, which means there were 24 oak saplings, and almost all of them were lost or discarded or just gotten rid of.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. For the obvious reason of not wanting to have a Hitler oak in your yard.

[Dave Fleming]

Right. Cannot blame anybody for that.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. A gift bag from history's greatest monster. Not necessarily what I would have put on, you know, in my own front yard.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah, yeah. Thanks, Hitler, for the merch, but I'll. I'll pass.

[Pablo Torre]

And so the obvious question then is, why the. Would Jesse Owens, of all people. Phlegm. Be the one to become the caretaker of a Hitler oak?

[Dave Fleming]

That's what we're gonna find out. But it's not just Jesse Owens. In the last hundred years, an entire community has come together to. They have fallen in love with this tree, and they have come together to save this tree.

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[Beck Schwab]

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[Pablo Torre]

So at the risk of just stating the obvious, it is important that we recall what it would have been like to be Jesse owens in the 1930s in a segregated United States. Because Jesse Owens was black, he was not legally eligible to receive a college scholarship, for instance, let alone get on campus housing. And then when he finally worked hard enough to make the US Olympic team, despite all of that and more, Jesse Owens discovered that the games were being held in Nazi Germany, an event that the NAACP alongside many, many others were all saying that Jesse Owens should not attend.

[Dave Fleming]

He was being torn in both directions, whether to go, whether to stay home, whether to take on Hitler, whether to just boycott the whole thing. You have to remember Jesse Owens. He grew up in Cleveland, he went to Ohio State. Jesse Owens was a world renowned athlete. After the 1935 Big Ten championship, which some people refer to as the greatest 45 minutes in sports. In the span of 45 minutes in 1935, Jesse Owens set or tied four world records in track and field. He's setting or tying a world record every 11 minutes.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, this is the milieu unto which he has to make a decision of am I the greatest track star in America, going to go overseas and essentially enable potentially a propaganda operation for Adolf Hitler?

[Dave Fleming]

He is the single greatest track and field athlete in the world. But there was a serious and strong campaign to try and encourage him not to go, to just sit it out, to not let his abilities bring attention to Hitler's theories about Aryan supremacy. And so I reached out to Dr. Damian Thomas, who is the sports curator at the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Dave Fleming]

And he helped explain what Jesse Owens had to deal with even before the Games.

[Dr. Damian Thomas]

At the time, I think people, people were trying to figure out how to best deal with the threat that Hitler posed. Do you appease him? Do you play along? Certainly there were discussions and people, people asked him not to participate. But a boycott would have largely been unprecedented. And it's a lot to ask Jesse Owens. And we see that there was wide spread support of African American athletes to ultimately participate because there were 18 African Americans who participated. And that was by far the largest contingent of African Americans who have participated in the Olympics up to that time.

[Dave Fleming]

So there were all these athletes who were going to the games, the ones who didn't want them to go, they were being branded by the U.S. olympic Committee as UN American Agitators.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. So this is an enormous news story. And once he gets there, again, another spoiler alert. Jesse Owens destroys everybody. He wins gold in the 100 meter dash, in the 200 meter, in the 4x100.

[Dave Fleming]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And then the long jump.

[Dave Fleming]

The long jump. It's one of those, if you see the film of it, it's one of those things where you and I, we've watched athletics, we've covered athletics, we've interviewed athletes. It's one of those moments where even almost a hundred years later, your jaw drops. It's almost like he's detached from the gravity of the earth. And when you think he's supposed to start coming down, he keeps going. And you're like, this is a hundred.

[Pablo Torre]

Years ago, a hard thing for Adolf Hitler to see and feel great about.

[Dave Fleming]

Right. I'm a human being watching this 100 years later in awe. And then I think, oh my God, Hitler had to watch Jesse Owens do this right in front of his face.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. The entire point was that here was going to be the proof that Germany was supreme, that white supremacy was, was real. And Jesse Owens explodes that four different times. And so this brings us to the thing that I, the most famous image that has been passed down through history, which is the story of what happens when Jesse Owens finally confronts Adolf Hitler face to face. Because Adolf Hitler, as again the leader of Germany, is the guy who's also greeting all of the athletes at the End. And the story is that Adolf Hitler refuses to shake the hand, the black hand of, of the American Jesse Owens.

[Dave Fleming]

And that is part of the mythology that's grown out of what Jesse Owens did, but it's not actually the whole full true story.

[Dr. Damian Thomas]

So Hitler attended the first day of the Olympics and what he did is he went and greeted the German athletes who had won medals and had performed triumphantly. The International Olympic Committee went to him and said that you just can't shake the hands of the Germans. You have to shake the hands of all of the winners if you're going to shake hands. And so Hitler decided that he was no longer going to shake anyone else's hand. So then when Jesse Owens wins and there's no handshake, people begin to speculate, well, has Hitler snubbed Jesse Owens? Is this a racial moment? Is this somehow demeaning to Jesse Owens?

[Pablo Torre]

And so I'm just going to jump in here to say that I did not plan on exonerating Adolf Hitler in any way when producing today's episode. But yes, Damien Thomas is correct. Hitler's refusal to shake the hand of Jesse Owens in Berlin was not actually specific to Jesse Owens at all. After day one, Hitler did not publicly congratulate any of the gold medalists. But the big reason that so many of us Americans have heard that story and have assumed it to be true for so long is relevant here as well.

[Dave Fleming]

So it turns out that this was a part of the myth that Jesse Owens himself perpetuated for years for a whole nother set of reasons. That sort of just takes us further down this story.

[Dr. Damian Thomas]

The story became really important for Jesse Owens later on because in his post running career he would often make money on the banquet circuit. And this became one of the most popular stories that he would tell about this missed opportunity with Hitler and how he was snubbed. And it was a way of sort of denouncing Germany and their racist policies. And he was celebrated because people wanted to feel good about America vis a vis Germany and vis a vis America's own racial history. And so it was a, it was a key story that, that sat at the heart of his ability to make money in his post racing career.

[Pablo Torre]

So the, the banquet circuit that Dr. Thomas referenced, I did not know that Jesse Owens was making appearances like as a speaker making money, doing that.

[Dave Fleming]

Right. Because your assumption is this guy is a worldwide hero. Yes, he's an American Olympic icon.

[Pablo Torre]

He just beat Hitler.

[Dave Fleming]

Surely he comes home to an America where it's ticker tape parades and endorsements and never has to lift a finger the rest of his life. It's the exact opposite.

[Pablo Torre]

No, of course, it's a reminder that again, we're in the 30s. Jesse Owens is a second class citizen in the United States.

[Dave Fleming]

I mean, Owens, Owens himself even said, Hitler refused to shake my hand, but so did the President of the United States, right?

[Pablo Torre]

By the way, this was fdr, fdr.

[Dave Fleming]

That's the America that he came back to. It's a place where he has to work as a janitor. It's a place where he has to work as a, as a custodian.

[Pablo Torre]

He's also a gas station attendant.

[Dave Fleming]

It's a place where when he does get invited to a celebration of the Olympic heroes at the Waldorf Astoria, he's got to go in through the freight elevator.

[Dr. Damian Thomas]

Jesse Owens struggled financially. You know, he had some failed business ventures, he had some tax problems, and he was often forced to, to engage in some things which he would later, later feel a bit embarrassed by in his later life. One of these such examples was when he engaged in a racing exhibition in Cuba and he raced a horse in an exhibition race.

[Pablo Torre]

Cuba. Jesse Owens. The Ebony streak of Olympic Games celebrates turning from professional by racing against a horse. Jesse had a start of 40 yards in 100 and he won by inches.

[Dr. Damian Thomas]

There was also a moment where he had a race with Joe Lewis. It was a race that he also found to be demeaning because he was crawling and Joe Louis was running backwards. Also during his time he worked with the Harlem Globetrotters as a middle aged man would run around the court during halftime jumping over hurdles as part of the entertainment for the Harlem Globetrotters game. So he had to do a number of things like that in order to survive financially.

[Pablo Torre]

I did not realize the degree to which Jesse Owens was a circus performer after having accomplished some of the greatest things in the history of sports.

[Dave Fleming]

So Damian mentioned that Owens did find some of those things that he had to do to make a living degrading. And there's a great quote from Owens that said, people say it was degrading for an Olympic champion to run against a horse, but what was I supposed to do? I had four gold medals. But you can't eat four gold medals.

[Pablo Torre]

By the way. That isn't just some clever rhetoric from Jesse Owens. Jesse Owens actually wound up giving one of his four gold medals from Berlin to a friend to thank him for helping him find work in the entertainment industry. And by the 1950s, Jesse Owens was reportedly so broke that he used the other three medals to pay for a hotel stay and his expenses in Pittsburgh. But that's not all that awaited Jesse Owens upon his return to America. Because not only did the guy work as a gas station attendant, as well as a janitor and a circus performer, his home, his neighborhood, entire urban sections of Cleveland, in fact, had been financially and ecologically degraded on the basis of race. This was thanks to a legal policy instituted by the aforementioned president Franklin Delano Roosevelt. And that policy, which is now illegal today, was known as redlining. As part of the 1930s era New Deal, the government insured mortgages for homeowners to prevent foreclosures.

[Dr. Damian Thomas]

During the depression, Color coded maps ranked loanworthiness of neighborhoods in more than 200 cities and towns across the United States.

[Dave Fleming]

Green was super good in terms of.

[Pablo Torre]

The risk of loaning in that area. And then red was hazardous. Those redlined areas were deemed credit risks because of the residents racial demographics. Today those so called hazardous neighborhoods consist of lower income minority residents.

[Dave Fleming]

The goal of redlining at the time.

[Pablo Torre]

Was to make it subtle.

[Dave Fleming]

Federal government representatives would literally take a red line and mark out areas of cities, hundreds of cities that they deemed unworthy of investment and risky for things like mortgages and businesses.

[Pablo Torre]

It was racism codified. It was discrimination literally mapped onto America itself.

[Dave Fleming]

It created huge sections of cities where if you can't invest, if you can't buy a home there, then over the next decades, over the next 90 years, people wouldn't bother to build parks and grow grass and plant trees. And so these sections, besides being sort of like lacking investment or home ownership, these areas of Cities now are 5 to 20 degrees hotter during summers, which lead to exponentially more heat and health related issues.

[Unknown]

Many redline districts are now the warmest areas in the United States. Research completed by the Museum of Science found redline neighborhoods like Roxbury and East Boston to be on average 2 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than non red line neighborhoods in Boston. These warmer areas tend to have fewer trees and parks to help cool the air. As a result, residents have higher energy bills, limited access to green space and disproportionate risk of heat related death.

[Pablo Torre]

So what I am also finding out because of this episode is the degree of scientific research into which health outcomes and life expectancies are, are tied to trees, to the way in which we need these things, these living things, to help create the life that America had promised its people. And this is not just like one random hippie saying this. There is a whole body of research that shows that redlining connects to environmental Injustice. And this is a study by Case Western Reserve University phlegm, which evaluated the map of Jesse Owens's Cleveland and showed that these same neighborhoods a century later, as you were alluding to, remain the area's most plagued by poverty and crime. All of this being directly connected.

[Dave Fleming]

There was also a study in 2022 by Maryland that pointed out older, larger trees with more canopy can impact variables like heat islands, air quality, soil health and stormwater management. Higher tree diversity also leads to more resiliency against invasive pests and disease outbreaks. Differences in tree communities and size may help explain why red lined spaces have become more associated with poorer health outcomes and shorter life expectancies for people living inside of them. And the connection back to Jesse Owens is he came back to a place where he lived in Cleveland that was purposefully left devoid of trees.

[Pablo Torre]

So the full accounting of everything that Jesse Owens was facing, the snubbing of his own president in fdr, the redlining of his. Of his country, and specifically his own home, his own home neighborhood in Cleveland, just the degradation of being this circus performer character, all, all of this infuses the four Hitler oaks that he takes back home with a far more profound meaning.

[Dave Fleming]

I think what happened next is one of the most heroic things that Jesse Owens ever did, right? Despite all the things that you just mentioned, all the things we talked about, the kind of country that he returned to as an Olympic hero and was still a second class citizen. Despite all of that, Jesse Owens still has enough hope to take those oaks and not throw them in Lake Erie, not discard them, not give them away. He gets down on his hands and knees and he digs and he plants these trees. He doesn't forget them. He plants them. He plants them. He brings them home to a place devoid of trees and he plants them in the ground.

[Pablo Torre]

Foreign. It's time to do a thing that I've been waiting to do on this show for a year now, which is some tree forensics. So Jesse Owens comes back home, he has four gold medals, he has four trees. What happens to the Hitler oaks? Where does he plant the saplings?

[Dave Fleming]

I've been looking into it for you, all right? I know you like the papers, I know you like the notes.

[Pablo Torre]

You have your research, I've got my research.

[Dave Fleming]

Okay, so here's what we know about the four oak saplings. Some sources say that he planted one at East Tech High School, which is where he actually went to school, but hasn't been verified. There are other stories that he planted one at his mother's Home in Cleveland. Again, that may have been torn down, can't be verified. There are also stories that he planted one on the campus at Ohio State where he went to school. Again, not verifiable. The only oak sapling that we know for sure that's been authenticated was at James Ford Rhodes High School, where Owens didn't go to school, but he practiced track there because they had a decent track, and the conditions at his own school were no good.

[Pablo Torre]

So we have the one. We have one Hitler Oak still standing at James Ford Rhodes High School.

[Dave Fleming]

Well, not technically. So we've got one tree authenticated. And what happens is around 2017, this oak tree, which is big and beautiful and right. And has been on this campus for decades, it begins to reach the end of its natural life, and it's dying. And this. This incredible symbol is about to go away forever. And you remember that beautiful community that we mentioned earlier?

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Dave Fleming]

That's where this whole community rallies to save a Hitler Oak.

[Pablo Torre]

And so who are the people who are leading the movement to save a Hitler Oak?

[Jeffrey T. Barrespi]

My name is Jeffrey T. Barrespi. I am the Chief operating officer at Cleveland Neighborhood Progress. I'm a community development leader.

[Unknown]

My name is Beck Schwab, and I. And my title is Director of Conservation and Community Forestry at Holden Forest and Gardens. And so a simpler way to say that is, yeah, like, I'm a tree nerd, tree scientist, love talking about trees.

[Dave Fleming]

These are some of my favorite people that we met on this journey, just because, again, they're so passionate and they're so just all in on this project. What happens is this great guy, one of the great guys that we met, Jeff Recipe, he learns of the Hitler oak right around 2017, right at the exact time when the tree is beginning to die.

[Jeffrey T. Barrespi]

When I first met the Tree in probably 2016, I thought it was a perfect tree.

[Pablo Torre]

I just want to pause the tape here. That's just one of the great declarations in the history of Pablo Torre. Finds out. Yeah, when I first met the tree.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah, I haven't met the tree, but I'm proposing a PTFO field trip so that we can all go meet the tree.

[Pablo Torre]

We'll have our people call the trees people.

[Dave Fleming]

Yes.

[Jeffrey T. Barrespi]

It was 40ft tall. It had big branches that had leaves everywhere. And I was like, this is a gorgeous, amazing tree. And the tree partners at Holden immediately looked at me like I had three heads. And they're like, no, that thing's clearly dying.

[Unknown]

A lot of times they'll actually, like, produce a lot more acorns. Or whatever their seed is, because at the end of their life, they want to make sure they can put as much effort into reproduction as possible to pass on their genes. I've even heard people call it like the glory of a tree under stress, because then sometimes they're just covered with flowers and you're like, this tree is doing great. It's producing so many flowers and so many seeds. But it's. Because it's under stress and it knows it's going out and so it just spends that last burst of energy to try to make sure it sends it's genetics forwards.

[Dave Fleming]

You know, I just want to join in with the, with the, with the tree nerds and point out the, the sort of, the, the beautiful moment that, that they're describing, which is when a tree reaches the end of its natural life, it's, it puts all of its final energy into trying to ensure that its life will continue.

[Pablo Torre]

The glory of a tree under stress is truly a beautiful scientific concept.

[Dave Fleming]

It's the second best line ever on your show. Besides, I met the tree.

[Pablo Torre]

Wait, so hold on. The tree that is beautifully dying, the Hitler Oak, how do they make sure that it does live on? What do you do with the acorns as it's, as it's gloriously perishing?

[Dave Fleming]

Well, that's exactly what I thought. I'm like, oh, so you just collect the acorns, right, and, and put them in some potting soil and bam, you got another Hitler Oak. But it's way more interesting and way more complicated than just planting an acorn.

[Unknown]

So if you want a genetically identical individual, what you can do is you get like a young twig essentially off of it. And I've done this process before and I feel kind of like a witch when I'm doing it because basically we'll take a tree that's in a pot and we'll get a twig from another tree and we cut the tree that's in the pot and then we cut the twig off the tree and you have to like use a little knife to get it to line up. Exactly. And then you put them together and you just like wrap it with like a rubber band essentially, and you dip it in wax. You try to do this in the winter when it's completely dormant. And then you put the spot where you put those two together, you put that against a little heating bar and you heat it up so it thinks it's the growing season and it's ready to grow. And then those two merge together and they become one tree.

[Pablo Torre]

So I should point out that none of that sounds like it should work.

[Dave Fleming]

Right.

[Unknown]

And then when the spring comes, it'll leaf out with, you know, the roots from the other tree and the twig from the oak tree. So basically what you've done, you've taken a piece of this tree, you've given it new roots and a new life, and it's basically a new individual. That's only instead of the 80 something years old that that whole tree is, that twig is only a couple of years old.

[Pablo Torre]

That sounds crazy. That's how you reproduce a tree.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah, you, you, you, you create some kind of secondary zombie tree limb.

[Pablo Torre]

You tie it together.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

You make the tree think that it's growing season and it grows.

[Dave Fleming]

I mean, they treated it, it was like a child. I got the idea that they were talking to it. They were checking in every day, waiting to see if it would produce buds.

[Pablo Torre]

Or leaves, like an actual living thing.

[Dave Fleming]

They were all rooting for this Hitler oak to live.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't know if you intended to make that pun, but I salute you nonetheless. They were rooting for it to live.

[Dave Fleming]

And it does. It works. I mean, all this sorcery, you know, it works. And they, they've managed to replicate and propagate these Hitler Oaks, and now they've grown over years into saplings that can be transplanted into the ground. And so now they've got four new genetically identical Hitler oaks to stand for the four gold medals and the four original oak saplings. And they plant them in different areas around Cleveland.

[Pablo Torre]

All of this continuing to be an even greater act of defiance than the one that had been mythologized in Berlin.

[Dave Fleming]

And it goes on, because now in Cleveland, these Hitler oaks, they're helping to educate people about the importance of trees, about how to combat redlining.

[Unknown]

And that's one of the environmental injustices that the community forestry community is trying to really face and address right now, to say that we need to get more trees into these areas. Because as a tree person, I see all the benefits of trees. It helps mental health, it helps stress. It makes it cooler when it's hot days. It creates space for community for people to hang out. I'd like to think that Jesse Owens wants to see these trees grow and survive and thrive. But then it's also an opportunity for us to bring awareness to that issue and try to engage community members with it.

[Dave Fleming]

So the trees themselves and the act of regenerating them and replanting them are now fighting a whole nother fight in Cleveland.

[Pablo Torre]

Are you Feeling more fulfilled now that you're back to work on August 15th?

[Dave Fleming]

No, I need a vacation. See the movie that critics are saying.

[Pablo Torre]

Is an awesome look at that crowd pleasing, fist pumping all out brawl of a film. You're right about that.

[Unknown]

They're coming after our family.

[Pablo Torre]

Go fix this. Omar Nobody 2, rated R. Holding in theaters August 15th. You say you'll never join the Navy, never climb Mount Fuji on a port visit or break the sound barrier. Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Learn [e-mail] America's Navy forged by the sea. And so the obvious question near the end here, Flem, is whether anybody feels any discomfort, residual, lingering discomfort from the fact that these are Hitler Oaks, that these are gifted again from one of history's greatest monsters.

[Dave Fleming]

Yeah, and I think that's one of the best parts of this whole story. They mean so much more to, to the people in that community that they don't really see them that way.

[Beck Schwab]

And today, with the eyes of a new generation of African American track stars looking on, the rebirth of Owens. Old dying tree was planted in new ground next to the Rockefeller park lagoon. The new tree was propagated from the Jesse Owens Olympic oak and planted right next to the site of the original.

[Pablo Torre]

So, Flem, what I'm finding out at the very end here is, is that we have been mislabeling the subject of today's episode. These are not actually the Hitler oaks at all.

[Dave Fleming]

No, they have, over time they have become, they've changed and they mean something totally different now. They've become the Jesse Owens oaks.

[Jeffrey T. Barrespi]

These are the Jesse Owens Olympic Oaks. They are nothing but that. The Jesse Owens Olympic Oaks. His story is one of resilience. There was pressure to not participate in the 1936 Olympics. There was pressure to boycott. Because being black in America in 1936 was also one in a community in which you were not afforded freedoms, you were not afforded full liberty. And he was denied that all the way. And so I actually think that that makes it even more powerful.

[Dr. Damian Thomas]

I think it's important that we tell a well grounded story about Jesse Owens, both about his triumphs and his challenges. He is someone who is reflective of a very important moment in African American history. And so to that extent, I'm really glad that people are keeping these oaks alive and keeping the story of Jesse Owens at the forefront of our national memory.

[Dave Fleming]

Hitler kind of outsmarted himself by gifting to Jesse Owens the very thing that he could use to fight racism and redlining in Cleveland. I mean, how about that for a transformation from Hitler to the Jesse Owens Oaks.

[Pablo Torre]

Dave Fleming, thank you for reporting a story that continues to grow.

[Dave Fleming]

Now you're gonna pull out the the puns.

[Pablo Torre]

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production. And I'll talk to you next time, Sam.