Podcast Summary: Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: "Why Olympic Sports in America Will Never Be the Same: A Deep Dive"

Date: August 8, 2024
Host: Pablo Torre
Guests: Drew Johansen (Head Coach, U.S. Olympic Diving Team), Victoria Jackson (Sports Historian, Arizona State University), Jeffrey Kessler (Antitrust Lawyer)

Overview of the Episode

This episode dives into the seismic changes threatening the future of Olympic sports in America, focusing on the impact of the NCAA's shifting financial landscape and the ripple effects of athlete compensation reforms. With the recent House v. NCAA settlement and impending revenue sharing for college athletes, traditionally "non-revenue" Olympic sports like diving, track, and gymnastics face existential risks. The discussion features intimate insights from Olympic diving coach Drew Johansen, historian Victoria Jackson, and antitrust lawyer Jeffrey Kessler, exploring the unique role of collegiate sports in developing American Olympians and the pressing fears and potential unintended consequences these changes bring.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Inside the Olympic Village: The Hidden Story Beneath the Medals

• [00:41] Pablo sets the scene with Drew Johansen coaching at the Paris Olympics, highlighting the relentless hard work that goes unnoticed amidst the Games’ glamour.
• American divers Cassidy Cook and Sarah Bacon (“Cookin’ Bacon”) win silver, the first U.S. medal in their event since 2012—a quiet celebration threatened by deeper anxieties among U.S. Olympic coaches.
• Quote (Drew Johansen, 02:44):

  "Fear, paranoia. You know, I'm worried ... This is the end of the NCAA as we know it."

2. College Sports Money: The Revenue Shift Shaking the System

• [03:50] Introduction of the Supreme Court’s ruling allowing college athlete compensation and the recent $2.8 billion settlement, setting the stage for direct payments to athletes.
• Drew is concerned that new revenue sharing will not add money, but only redistribute funds, threatening Olympic sports housed under college athletics.
• Quote (Drew Johansen, 04:55):

  “The unintended consequence is, I think, threatening the Olympic sports...I just see a redistribution of funds. And as they have to redistribute the funds, they're going to have to make cuts.”

3. Why America’s Olympic Model is Unique—and Vulnerable

• [07:56] Over 75% of U.S. Olympians in Paris came through the collegiate system; more than 800 athletes at Paris represented other countries after developing through the NCAA pipeline.
• Victoria Jackson contextualizes: The NCAA didn’t build this success—football players essentially subsidized Olympic dreams for decades through the ideology of amateurism.
• Quote (Victoria Jackson, 09:33):

  “So much of this funding is actually the monies that college football players have generated...it's sports for others' sake.”

4. Systemic Blind Spots and the Looming Threat to Olympic Sports

• [10:45] The U.S. model blends sports, culture, and education like no other nation; this synergy is now at risk.
• Coincidentally, as the Paris Games opened, the legal paperwork for the NCAA settlement was filed, effectively capping teams’ roster sizes but NOT mentioning diving.
• Coaches like Drew learned about the settlement secondhand, highlighting the lack of representation and influence of "minor" Olympic sports within the NCAA governance structure.
• Quote (Drew Johansen, 14:14):

  “We don't necessarily get a seat at the table all the time...Most cases the swim coaches are our bosses.”

5. Swimming vs. Diving: Inequity in Collegiate Sports

• [14:56] Diving, often treated as an afterthought to swimming, is now even more threatened because team incentives will shift to maximize swimmers on rosters for scoring and financial reasons.
• Drew illustrates that diving could be squeezed out entirely by budget-strained programs, further reducing collegiate opportunities for future Olympians.
• Quote (Drew Johansen, 15:15):

  “We're really in a weak position. As squads now are going to get smaller, budgets are going to be stretched.”

6. COVID & the Precedent for Cuts

• [18:40] During the pandemic, even major revenue schools cut non-revenue sports. Track and field, men’s gymnastics, and others are running scared—even at football powerhouses.
• The elimination of teams at places like Michigan State and Clemson, despite massive revenues, reveals that Olympic sports are expendable.
• Quote (Victoria Jackson, 19:15):

  “The ruthless killing off of the Pac-12 conference really showed Olympic sport athletes like you don't matter.”

7. What Should Change? Visions for Fairness and Reform

• [21:16] Drew suggests three potential paths:
  1. Continue as is, risking litigation and extinction of programs.
  2. Adjust roster calculations: Count divers as “half” of a roster spot to protect participation.
  3. Make diving a standalone varsity sport, separate from swimming, since it thrives at the Olympics separately.
• Quote (Drew Johansen, 23:24):

  "Sounds weird to say that I want to be counted as a half, not a whole, but I still do until I have the equal opportunity to contribute to the team."

8. Redesigning the System: Historical and Congress-Level Context

• [24:34] Victoria Jackson recounts testifying in D.C. about the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic system’s structural issues—colleges failed to reform when they had the chance.
• Advocates for a “President’s Commission” and new public-private partnerships to support Olympic sports access nationwide.
• Quote (Victoria Jackson, 25:57):

  “If we need someone outside of the system to redesign it...maybe we need another president's commission like we'd had in the lead up to the passage of the Amateur Sports Act in 1978.”

9. The Dilemma: Justice for Football Players, Jeopardy for Everyone Else

• [28:32] Pablo synthesizes the central paradox: Compensating football players is long overdue and just, but the resultant funding crunch imperils every non-revenue sport’s survival.
• Jackson pushes back against shifting blame to football players, arguing for creative new funding to save all sports, and expresses optimism for more—if leaders act.
• Quote (Victoria Jackson, 29:21):

  “Football players have had a bad deal for a really long time...While we're doing that, we also need to show the American public ... that these other sports have value and need to be continued.”

10. A Broader Sense of Loss—and a Call for Courage

• [31:10] Even at Indiana—a swimming and diving powerhouse with elite facilities—Drew worries for the entire sport’s future, not just his own program.
• [32:34] Without collegiate support, U.S. teams could quickly revert to under-resourced "true amateurs,” ceding dominance to countries with professionalized systems.
• Quote (Drew Johansen, 32:34):

  “The idea of pursuing an Olympic dream and pursuing an education together...is what the Olympics is all about.”

11. Final Reflections & Memorable Moments

• [33:59] Drew on speaking out despite potential backlash:

  “This crisis that we're in now...will create conversation, and I'm fine with that...I'll talk to anybody and be happy to share my thoughts moving forward.”

• [34:45] Pablo: “We specialize in deep dives… it is only appropriate that we figure out what the actual, you know, Olympic divers are up to.”
• [36:40] Jeffrey Kessler reflects on college athletic wealth:

  “Maybe the athletic director won’t make $4 million ... Maybe that gold plated alumni room ... will only be made of silver instead of solid gold. The money is there. So little of that is spent on the non-revenue sports now.”

Important Timestamps

• [00:41] – Pablo introduces Drew Johansen from Paris, describes the Olympic grind.
• [03:50] – NCAA Supreme Court ruling and revenue sharing context.
• [07:56] – The NCAA's central role in producing Olympians.
• [09:33] – Funding Olympic sports via college football (Victoria Jackson).
• [13:49] – Diving left out of new roster/scholarship limits (Drew learns "second hand").
• [15:15] – The weak power position of diving vs. swimming.
• [18:40] – Precedent of Olympic sports being cut during COVID.
• [21:16] – Drew's proposed solutions for the future.
• [24:55] – Testimony before Congress (Victoria Jackson).
• [29:21] – Blaming football players vs. systemic solutions.
• [32:34] – Drew worries about deteriorating U.S. Olympic competitiveness.
• [36:40] – Kessler on college sports’ “gold-plated” spending choices.

Notable Quotes

• Victoria Jackson ([09:33]):

  “So much of this funding is actually the monies that college football players have generated ... it's sports for others' sake.”

• Drew Johansen ([14:14]):

  “The way we're structured ... we don't necessarily get a seat at the table all the time.”

• Pablo Torre ([28:32]):

  “Thank God these Football players [are] being paid ... but ... justice being brought to football is now forcing a reckoning with: so what about everything else?”

• Jeffrey Kessler ([36:40]):

  “Maybe the athletic director won’t make $4 million ... The money is there. So little of that is spent on the non-revenue sports now.”

Conclusion & Takeaways

• The NCAA revenue revolution promises justice for football athletes but threatens to upend decades of U.S. Olympic pipeline success unless creative solutions and renewed public commitments emerge.
• Non-revenue Olympic sports reside in a precarious limbo, lacking representation in crucial decision-making, and at risk of being quietly cut as budgets shift.
• Sustaining American Olympic excellence may well depend on whether universities, athletic administrators, and policymakers can recognize the intrinsic value of these sports and proactively redesign the college athletics ecosystem for the next era.

For listeners wanting more:

• This episode offers a rare, candid look behind Olympic highlight reels, exposing the American system’s fractured future.
• Pablo’s signature tone—a blend of curiosity, bluntness, and humor—keeps the deep-dive engaging and grounded in real voices from the front lines of change.